HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981-12-08Approved January 5, 1982
MINUTES
HUNTINGTON BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION
Room B-8 - Civic Center
2000 Main Street
Huntington Beach, California
TUESDAY, DECEMBERr8, 1981 - 7:00 PM
ADJOURNED MEETING OF THE PLANNING -COMMISSION FOR THE PURPOSE
OF HOLDING A SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Winchell, Schumacher, Porter, Bannister
COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Paone, Mahaffey, Kenefick
CITY STAFF PRESENT: Patin, Bellavia, Webb, Tindall, Parker,
Truppelli, Strange, Gilmer
TENTATIVE TRACT 10067 (SEACLIFF IV, PRODUCT AREA, B)
Applicant: Mansion Properties Inc,
Dave Eadie, Jerry Goodman, and Gary Connister were present to
represent the applicant.
Savoy Bellavia reported that the project under consideration is
a revision of a formerly approved tract; Conditional Use Permit
No. 81-31 has. also been filed in conjunction with this revised
project. The project is a 194 unit development on 41 acres on the
north side of Palm Avenue at the southeast extension of 38th
Street.
Dave Eadie of the Huntington each Company reviewed the history
of former City and Coastal Commission approvals and conditions.
He noted that the new conditional use permit for Product Area B
is a total redesign of the originally approved plan which had a
series of cul-de-sacs with inherent design problems of insuffi-
cient rear -to -rear separation of units, accessibility and usability
of open space, location of guest parking and its resultant effect
on the streetscape, and the opening of small residential cull
onto an arterial street (Palm Avenue).
The new plan has incorporated large open space areas in the middle
of the project with corridors of open space entering this central
area. The project is still the same number of units, but with
a smaller bedroom count (this count will be available for the
presentation before the full Commission!.
Circulation has been internally oriented, allowing "Bt' Street to
be deleted from the plan and replaced with open space buffering
between product areas. A traffic analysis has indicated that
Minutes, H.B. Planning Commission
December 8, 1981
Page 2
the deletion of B Street would not impact the access intersections
into the tract; however, the design of the entry had to be modified
to,incorporate recommendations for dual lane access for guests and
owners. Guest parking is now provided in parking bays, and Mr. Eadie
indicated a willingness to provide another bay near the location of
the onsite oil well. The deletion of "B" Street also created an em-
ergency traffic flow problem on the plan for Product A; this has been
solved by slight modification of the cul-de-sacs and relocation of
two sets of buildings in the center of the A plan, which would then
meet all Fire Department standards.
"A" Street has now been delineated as a private street with a guarded
main access gate. Other access gates into the project will have
button controls installed. "A" Street will have to be built upon the
beginning of construction and construction traffic will probably use
Palm Avenue but not necessarily come in from Goldenwest Street past
the existing residential properties - the builder is looking for alter-
native access points to avoid impacting that residential area.
Mr. Eadie pointed out that only one special permit is being asked for:
the use of individual trash pickup in lieu of large trash bins.
Fire and Public Works representatives informed the Committee that
the revised plan meets all their standards and requirements.
Commissioner Porter inquired what•the present rear -to -rear separation
between units will now be, and Mr. Eadie said it is approximately
80 feet. Mr. Porter also asked that some special treatment be given
the sidewalk on Palm Avenue other than just running it up against
the curb. He suggested meandering walk with possible berming to pro,
vide an aesthetic treatment. Dave Eadie informed the Committee that
they are working on a meandering situation on 38th Street and he Saw
no problem in trying to get something similar worked out for Palm as
well.
The Committee discussed the use and maintenance of the open space
areas between product areas and the biking and jogging trails. This
use and responsibility for maintenance will be allocated through the
CC&R's for the project, according to Mr. Eadie,
Commissioner Winchell questioned the adequacy of the 24 foot drive and
was assured by Fire Department representatives that it could be
maintained free and clear by the new no parking ordinance and proper
enforcement. It was pointed out by Mr. Eadie that the generous amount
of parking space provided by the 20-foot aprons for each unit would
alleviate the parking problems normally found in such projects,
aiding further in preventing people from parking in the 24 foot right-
of-way.
Jim Palin directed that the following be included for the Planning
Commission's review at a public hearing: 1) the tract maps should
reflect proper acreage and dimensions; 2) the map should be shown to
the centerlines of abutting streets (which may solve the discrepancies
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Minutes, H.B. Planning Commission
December 8, 1981
Page 3
between the plan submitted and the description in the text); lots
on 38th Street must be shown setting back a sufficient distance to
provide the prior conditioned scenic area; the question of how ease-
ments for the drainage system will be handled should be worked out
with Public Works; and details on treatment of the oil island must
be shown. These should include wall treatment and landscaping, a
letter of agreement from the oil operator, and indication of how
funding for future treatment after abandonment of the oil operation
will be handled.
Commissioner Bannister arrived at the meeting at this point.
TENTATIVE TRACT 11417 (The Ranch)
Applicant: Mansion Properties Inc.
Dave Walden, Mike Kelly, Dick Harlow, Larry Kaufman, Stuart Woodward,
Steve Gunther, Scott Barker, Carl Wilson, and Bill Schulz were pre-
sent to represent the applicants.
Savoy Bellavia outlined the project for the benefit of the Committee,
noting that the original 672 units proposed for the property have
been reduced to 492 units and some acreage taken out of the original
map.
Stuart Woodward, -architect for the project, made a presentation on the
modifications which have been made to the plan since the last hearing
by the Committee. The plan has tried to develop an environment which
minimizes streets and emphasizes pedestrian orientation and greenbelt
systems through the project while still satisfying the needs of vehicu-
lar traffic. The density has been reduced, a central lake added as a
major concept, and one major access or "spine" road provided into the
development with the various separate areas of development taking
access off this central street. Three basic configurations of units
have been provided.
In the townhouse portion in the northwest quadrant of the property there
will be private road systems running into entry courts to serve the
units. Each unit will have two -car garages, attached, with private
patios through which an owner can enter his unit. (Some townhouses do
not have patios to the rear of the units so that the plan could better
respond to the existing grades on the property.) Guest parking will be
provided in the front and guests will enter from the front. There will
be a meandering walk system on Main Street and Clay Avenue, but entran-
ces into the project from this walk have been modified in response to
prior staff concern that direct access to these units from the street
would encourage street parking on Main and Clay. Pedestrian access points have
been reduced to three off Main Street, provided with wrought iron gates
or other means of discouraging public access. Mike Kelly said he would
like permission to narrow the walk width on Main Street to allow better
berming and landscaping treatment. This was discussed, and the con-
sensus was that he should work with the Department of Public Works both
for the design of such a walk and formulation of possible maintenance
agreements for the landscaping.
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Minutes, H.B. Planning Commission
December 8, 1981
Page 4
The hillside portion of the property will consist of two- and three-
story flat units with semisubterranean parking. The existing mansion
site has been excluded from the project as a "not a part" parcel and
its environment protected by substantial setbacks. This portion' of
the project emphasizes close proximity to the main recreational areas
(the central recreation complex and the lake). There will be a "prom-
enade" road along the north side of the lake which will also serve as
the fire road for the center section; the south side of the lake will
be a "soft" treatment which will continue through the area. The end
units on these buildings will be stepped or cascaded down to soften
their appearance, and the roofs so constructed as to avoid having a
continuous ridge line for further visual variation. Private patios will
be provided in different dimensions, setbacks, and wall heights for
added aesthetic effect along the lake area.
The flat projects will be two- and three-story, with two stories pro-
vided at the points in the project which can be seen from the streets
or the recreation areas. The buildings will be bermed up two or three
feet against the sides of the parking structures to minimize impact,
and trellis systems installed to give architectural detail.
Mr. Woodward also presented drawings to show the relationship of the
townhouse and flat developments to each other and to the open space
areas provided in the project.
The following items were discussed by the Committee:
Exterior Walkway Treatment: Commissioner Porter noted that in terms
of contouring, setback, and landscaping the walk seems squared off
against the perimeter bike trail. He suggested some kind of treat-
ment that would allow the walks and possibly the trail to move about a
little within the right-of-way and provide variation while still main-
taining some acceptable degree of separation from the adjacent struc-
tures. It was agreed that this would be an effective treatment, but
again it was a question of future maintenance which would have to be
worked out. Mike Kelly said he had a cross section of how the path
would look which might be helpful to the Commission.
In regard to this subject, George Tindall indicated that the bicycle
trail should be carried out all the way down to Lake Street, to
which the proponents agreed. He also asked that the exterior side-
walk be extended to this point. This was discussed, as it would be
constructed on the excluded "not a part" parcel on the hill. Jim
Palin noted that since the project was taking access across this "not
a part" parcel.the extension of the walk was not an unreasonable re-
quirement'to place on the development, and Mike Kelly agreed that the
sidewalk would be extended across the not a part parcel on Yorktown
Avenue. The applicants were directed to provide a typical cross sec-
tion on Yorktown to identify the bicycle trail construction; Commissioner
Porter asked that information on the treatment proposed on Huntington
Street also be submitted.
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Minutes, H.B. Planning Commission
December 8, 1981
Page 5
Grading: Prior concerns with retaining walls and excessive grade
differentials were reviewed, and the applicants indicated that
these had been minimized as much as possible. Complete informa-
tion on the total cut and fill quantities will be submitted to
the Commission, as well as a description of how the land looks at
present and will look when grading is completed. A contour map will
be provided for Commission review, and staff suggested that in
addition to the scale shown on the map it also be dimensioned
for heights for the benefit of those not experienced in reading
grading sections.
Mr. Woodward presented drawings showing the grading through vari-
ous sections of the property and how the units had been sited in
relationship to those grades.
Jim Palin asked that a section be shown through the drives on
the flat units to show how vehicular and pedestrian access can be
handled through the areas between the three-story structures and
how drainage which will be blocked by these drives will be re-
routed in some other fashion.
Grading of the subterranean parking structures was reviewed.
Mr. Woodward said that typically these would be half above and
half below grade, but some would be built on grade and bermed up
to three and one-half feet. He was directed to show this on the
plan and show sections for these different situations.
Open Space: Mike Kelly informed the Committee that the open space
provided is 6.8 acres in excess of code requirements, with the lake
itself constituting 6.23 acres of that count. The ratio overall is
roughly 39 percent in open space, with some uncountable open space
provided which increases the percentage even though it cannot be
included in the calculation. The drawings previously shown by
Mr. Woodward will be the general treatment of the space between
projects and around the lake.
The question was asked by Mr. Kelly if the bicycle/pedestrian paths
can be counted as part of the open space requirement. Extensive
discussion took place on this subject, considering whether or not
it was within or outside the boundaries of a project and what the
effect might be on some future project where the open space was
more critical than it is in this particular project. Mr. Kelly
indicated that it is the desire of the applicant that the public
bike path will be dedicated to the City and inquired if something
could be worked out on the maintenance of certain areas which are
going to get public usage.
At the conclusion of the discussion, Mr. Kelly said they were taking
the bike path out of their open space calculations.
Parking: The applicants indicated that the townhouses have 3.2
SPUCSFS—per unit and the nodules of flats approximately 3 spaces
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Minutes, H.B. Planning Commis.si;on
December 8, 1981
Page 6-
per unit. In connection with the parking, a discussion took place
on the guest parking provisions and the lack of the 20-foot drive
aprons which are intended to provide additional parking in planned
developments. The plan now provides for 5-foot setback of garages
from drives instead of the 3 feet originally shown. It is still,
however, the contention of the proponents that the 3-foot setback
would better serve to discourage anyone from trying to park within
the setback and possibly blocking the street.
Bruce Gilmer asked how visitor parking will be handled for the mul-
tiple underground structures. Mr. Woodward replied that they could
be assigned spaces or controlled or gated; it has not been decided
yet, but that information will be available at the Planning Commis-
sion meeting.
George Tindall addressed the potential problem of overload parking
around the recreation areas when special events or occasions with
extraordinarily large numbers -.of guests take place. This matter will be
handled in the CC&R`s for the project, according to Mr. Kelly.
Mr. Tindall reminded the applicants of the "no parking" provision
for all peripheral streets except where parking is marked on York-
town Avenue.
Oil Wells: Mr. Woodward reported that some 10 existing oil wells
within the site area will be removed. Two in the north taking access
off Clay Avenue will remain, and there will be special attention paid
to the treatment of -these for visual impact. An oil island will be
located near the center lake area, also to receive aesthetic considera-
tion. George Truppelli indicated that problems have been occurring in
regard to the noise -relating to the operation and servicing of oil
wells near residential complexes, and the Fire Department will review
the wells carefully and address each one that is going to be within
100 feet of a structure to assure compliance with regulations. The
applicants were instructed to present a letter from all oil operators
concurring with the plans as they relate to their operation, as well
as presenting some method of funding for conversion of the locations
after oil operations -are terminated.
Lake: Water in the lake will have a recirculating system. The pump
facilities for this system will be located underground in open
areas, not close to residential units.
"Not a Part" Parcels: Jim Palin discussed the "not a part" parcels
shown on the plan. Mr. Kelly informed the Committee that the parcel
where the oil island is located is not landlocked as it might appear
from the map but actually goes out to the street and access will be
provided. He was instructed to incorporate the parcel into the
tentative tract map or set it aside by the filing of a tentative par-
cel map, as it has never been mapped. The other "not a part" parcels
exceed five acres and will be residual. The Committee discussed
the requested vacation of the paper streets existing on the site, and
the applicants were informed that all such areas inside the blue
border can be vacated by the re -subdivision, but anything outside the
blue border will require separate action and should be done concur-
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December 8, 1981
Page 7
rently.
George Tindall again reminded the applicants of the three- or
four -foot "no man's land" between their map and the existing
parcel on Huntington Avenue occupied by an apartment project
and requested that some treatment for it be shown.
Trees: Bill Schulz reported that the redesign has allowed 7 of
the 19 trees originally slated to be removed to be saved, includ-
ing all of the big pines on the site. The tree study will be re-
produced in the EIR.
Fire Department: George Truppelli reported that .they have worked
with the developers on the plan and are satisfied with the results.
All structures are now well within the 150 foot travel distance
except for a few minor areas which will have to be modified. Por-
tions of buildings will require automatic fire protection based
upon the building bulk, height, etc., and automatic fire alarm
systems will be required throughout the flat projects. Vehicular
circulation is adequate, and roofs and fire walls will be con-
structed according to Fire Codes.
Public Works: George Tindall discussed drainage, water, and sew-
erage. He also commented that in his opinion the streets within
the project were too narrow and might present access and turning
problems for emergency equipment.
Mr. Tindall asked that a draft of the proposed CC&R's be sub-
mitted for review. Mr. Woodward said these were not yet prepared
but a copy of sample CC&R's from similar developments could be
provided. He also reminded the applicants that various scale
errors on the maps should be corrected.
Trash Collection: Commissioner Schumacher asked if the required
sprinklering had solved the problems of storage of trash in the
basements and was assured by Fire Department representatives
that it had.
Location of trash pickup points and the arrangements worked out
with Rainbow for trash collection were discussed, and the respon-
sibility for seeing that the trash would be put out for collection
without impeding traffic flow was reviewed. The applicants indi-
cated that it is hoped to have all of this type of thing included
in the contract with the landscape maintenance people who will
care for the site. Mr. Kaufman said that exact locations for
trash pickup have not yet been established, but they will be off
to the side of a road and not in the traffic lanes. Precise
locations will be shown on the map when it is presented to the
Commission for review.
Commissioner Schumacher indicated that in her opinion this filing
is premature and should not be considered until the matter of
the railroad corridor is settled. She pointed out that it is
shown on the General Plan and without some resolution taking place
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Minutes, H.B. Planning Commission
December 8', 1981
Page 8 .
any approval of the proposed project would not be in conformance
with that Plan. Dick Harlow discussed the history of City and
County deliberations on this matter.
The project will be scheduled for the January 19, 1982 Planning
Commission meeting. Jim Palin indicated that it might involve a
future meeting between staff and the developers; Planning Commissioners
were invited to attend such a meeting if they should so desire.
The meeting was adjourned.
Savoy 1l--a-
Secretary
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Grace H. Winchell, Chairman
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