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HomeMy WebLinkAboutHuntington Center Associates LLC, (Ezralow), Burlington Coat Factory & Montgomery Wards - 2000-10-20 (23)EXHIBIT F Sent By: BUHLINTON COAT FACTORY- 609 239 1421; Oct-2-00 3:39PM; Page 618 Oct•o2-2000 12:48pe FrwTuchsan Ogociztei 1113/50686 r T-504 tyAVU P-461 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 is 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 I, Marls A. Need, declare as follows: I . I am the ESocutive Vice PtesWcza acd Chiefopmadng Mccr ofButthgton Corr Factory warehouse Corporation, Inc. located at 1830 Route 130, Burlington, NI 08016-2996 and its wholly -owned subsidiary, By rlkgum Coat Factory Warehouse of HundngWn Beach, Inc. ("BCn. In These capacities, I am one of to key owcudves responsible for overseeing and superviskg, amcmg other things and without limitation. BCF's leasehold interest in a portion of the stopping center located in Huntington Beach, Califomia (the "Shopping CcntW). The SUMmmus contained in this Declaradon are true and based on my penonal knowledge, unless othtrwtse stated herein. If called upon to unify to these st lznrze ts, I cowl anti would compcmndy do to Unda crarh. i 2. 1 mAke this Declaration in opposition to tha City entering into the OPA and allegedly acting to determine if Bltilirtgton's property should be taken. 3. I have reviewed the reports from Sedway and Keyser Marston. The direct inference is that Burlington Coat Factory is not an `Stpscale" retailer. 4. It should be noted that no one from the Stdway Group or Keyser Marston ever contacted my offices or anyone at Burlington Coat Factory. Had they coasacted us, we would have cued thaw and Swded them with rasped to the amotmt of square faof4p that we senu l]y no and use, the approximm sales tlao= we have paid over the last throe and a half years, the types of malls that we have bin in as wrll as other information which would bane made their reports more accurate. 5. We are fully able to stock our shelves with such fashions as Tommy Hil$ger, 11 Hugo Buss, Annant stud have a &U spectnm of vendors. 6. At present, we are currently omupying approximauly 133,500 square feet, not nearly 200,000 Square feet AS the reports indiCAte, in addition, our sales tax Tswana, the last approximately duet and one half years, totals $3,769,000. If you tale tht approximate square footage on a three year avenge, that is $9.41 per square foot versus dte Sedway conclusion of approximately $6.31 per squae foot. it/ ► «, . � • ► ! .� . ►I. M 1• • ail M • � • Y: flllli ►11Y�1: I► hyl• r.r_ r ' �f► 1'r: 1 pYl� t� y '71f: : +rlla) 1' :! l: ► ! J: • i r i • �l_ ► _ .i: Sent By: BURLINTON COAT FACTORY;,._ 609 239 1421; Oct-2-00 3:39PM; Page 719 Oct-02-Ma 12:45pe From %Owaa t*aclitei 2133150511 T-504 P.103/004 F-461 i� Z 3I 4 5' 6 7 8 9' lU 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 29 7. I have read the Perforniz= Analysis of Mazvyns versus Burlingwn, and based on the demographics and the amown of sales, it Appears that the Meavyns store is equal re or Icss chase tho =ount of sales tax that is beins geummed by Burlington Coat Factory. Eitber way, the reports are maceLme, and unless the correct square footage and the comect sales tax figures are inmpormed, the reports are nm an inglm and obviously slanted for a pr+edeteranned goal of getting rid of Bisdb%ton Cost Factory. 8. Our womea's clothing vendors include: F.mme Black, Pendleton, Josephine Cbaus, XAgw, Evan Picone, Jo= Coliectiort, Jonrs Spotr, Jones Country, Have Beaud, Anne Klein 2, Ralph (by Ralph Lauren), Bushwacker, Liz Chubome, Rena Rowan, Rafaeila, DKNY, ABS, French Connection, Lau m (by Ralph Lam), Harlow, Easel, Rem Owwn, Stave Maddest, Pasrick, Andrew Marc, Adrieana Pappel, En Francais, Muse, John Meyer Suits, Un 9w, Ciianfianca Ferre, Exte, Expensive and Finity. 9. Our shoe vendors include: Nine West, fim, Via Spiga, Bandolino, Easy Spirit, Nick,cis, Kenneth Cole, Ktmw& Cale Unlisted, BCB4, Bisou Bisou, Liz Claiborne, Me Too, Steve Madden, DKNY, Skwhn, Nina, Unin, Chinese Laundry, Esprit, NaturaUzer, Life Stride, Ann Marino, Sate and Libby, Candies, Prime Royale, Aerosoles, White Mouctmin, Johan and Murphy, F'lorsheim Dexter, STacy Adams, Nunn Bush, Timberland, Bostonian, Adidas, Reebok, Fila and Keds. 10. Our menswear venders include: Polo, Tommy ( lfiger), Neutica, DKNY, Pftry Ellis, Calvin Klein, Guess, Janes New Yozk, Claiborne, RufSni, Donna Kahan, Chacps, Kenneth Cole, AndrewFezza, IZOD, Hugo Boss. Frencb Connection, Harve Bernard, Kasper, Pelle PeRc, Pepe, FiJBU, Sean John, Rocawear, Kati KwL Wuwear, Armaai, And Onc, Nike, Adidas, Champion, Geaffirey Bey, Sava=, Levi's, Haggai, JordwAc, Alex M der Julian aad 3tscy Adams. 11. Ow otttmwear vendoas include: Andrew Marc, Polo, Chaps, DIW, FUBU, Pbx i Farm, K,cn Cole Reaction, Coltunbia, Weathcrpwo£ Clafbasz38, Na=4 Rain Famst, Calvin Klein, Pacific Trail, London Fog, Schott, Tommy Hilfiger and Avircx. 12. Our Luxury Lb= vendors include; Croscill, Royal Vc1vt'c, Vcra44 WamsuMk I Fieldcrest, Martex, Ralph Lauren, Nfilam and Fitz tit Floyd. X ITMITTI,a + . t „ . .i,. ,+� �. x"144 ♦ ee If; I WSMOM.99 _V i. ; r.r•, •ra + .+, 7 :: V • 1..3 : �, . �� _ •y��. x� ► '� . :.,�{►l r 71 I tie! Sent By: 6URLINTON COAT FACTORY;.- 609 239 1421; Oct 00 3:39PM; Page 818 Oct-02-2000 i t:41vs Fror-Tuchnn ^w It4l a I Hlsolll T-W P.OUM4 F-01 1' 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1$ 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27l 28 I 13. The mbMm of the retail merchandise available is subjeat to the customer base sad can easily be upgraded, chemsed, amended or modified- 1 dad$re hinder penalty of pe ]wy under e11 the laws 0f the Smtc of CAhfornia thst ft famgaiag is true and correct. This declaration is sigaed this �`` day of 4ctobcr, 2000 at Burlington, New Jersey. A. EXHIBIT G EZRAL0* New RfiTAII. PROPERTIES September 21.1999 W. RobM Grspsld Dhector of Raul Ems Budinvoa Coat Fumy 1330 Route 130 Budiingmt4 NJ. 08016 IF 7s+� cuff. are. su+n ins lamm cAt am• sine "&.*two TIU"OKt +.s.w.uss 4 Il S R• T. GRAPSKI � P$3ON Rc THE FZRAWW COM7AW, = Lean Betwan MCA Hiwtmgft Assooiatea, L.P.. laadtord, sad Bodensee Can Fuwy. Learm deed as ofApt t 21,1993 for pmmim located is the Dar Mr Grspft We have entered into a o=Md with an AMu of The Ma"Mch Compm to purchase the Hundnpoa Bwh Mall (to "Ceutd), =Iuda6 dw tumd pradm pinvady o=u pW by BwUnp= Cost Fsatm (" w tapW or "pull. Upaa ow &wdddan of the C awn vm propw to redavdop it info a ilnFch= retail uW certtae pursuss w pro:par, " awlavidomm a wNh do Redsve]apt Apemy of the City of Hmdugos Sawk the tedevdopmen plan will regWm the de=Udon =6 ramroval of much of the OdIdna 'wpm on the siw6 44xft the BwUnpm leased pleat wL We beUm the Chi, what re+d&V eloped pwn at to our p opow d plan` will a abim ft"AM rwa ad usas in as innovative way within a hiB�Quslt$' �i .- We have utempoed va coutm you reomady coot cw4 our pLs for the redeveloped Camac for 68 ;MPNO of opaain6 anu dow with Buriw2w a resuftp b iatfm in gsRidpstini as a vow of the redeveloped Center. Va k= ahmm m may be p*Wlbe. al*cue l if Biudina as dalres to remain as a taunt in the redaveioped Center. it will be necessary to reioata you ftm Yom widag prrmiset Law m 'os Fumy Z 5spliabor 11, Mw Ow won of the'rekvdaped CenDet csu include a role fat Budingt o If you ate to work with = as this improvement prQJGM We hope to shm thtt vision with you sad invite you to svW yourselvd of this sWgWtr oppo mity. Plems call me when you have mviewad d& ca to disco, this vat► rly yaum JCR oltS"ewpar tLmbiNdaUls LLC EXHIBIT H THE EZRALOw COMPANY, A 23622 Caldasas Road Suite 100 Calabasas. Ctddbraia 91302 October IS. 1999 e - h Ai P . r Mr. Bob Qrapsld Burlingtm Cott Factory War+ebouse Real Estate Depnnm®a 1830 Route 130 Burlington,. NJ 08016 Re: THE EZRALOW CO11iPANY, LLC Budingm Coss Fwaacyr Dew Bob: In My PIV% iotts carrespoadence to you dated September 29, 1 M. and advagateat discuniaas I advieed y�au of our desire to discuss Budhtgwa's inoemeat is pa:tleipati as • oe t of the redaveioped Ctm *v are prapodn�& I also indicted th el onr reRlerelopessent p!ea will require the demo Udon and rema%ml of mwA of Ow edstit g impco� an the site, imclud'aag the. Burlington leased premises. When redeveloped pw=mt to our pray osod platy vm beliew the L'eater will combine Ssst-class retail and mtzerWwpe mt use in an inmidve sung► witbla a high-Quaft During our telephone ow, ev ptioa tom. I confamod to you dus to f+amping inwhaadw to discuss BwUngtods intaest in pa:ticipadag as a uemt of the redeveloped Censer remmina open~ but catum remain open WcSniody. AwakHn*, I haN+e included a preftlawy site plan of the miewloped Cea w for your Immediaw rwAgw wad Xumsdm with me. h is subject to change~ Plow direst your aatendoas to Suites K W. and O as,hon on tiara plain mad call me as soon as passibia The window of oppmaa ty for Bwfingtoa to paddpm as ale a of the redevdaped Camar drinker as time pass& fnsaft. we see no basis !roar y m conclusion that becautig a two-montb oid IM attirw ddled to m d= Bunimazon as a participating teoart of the &;e& ,6aged Center. that. BmIlopm is not bang Wired tit such yameipatlaa. Tw invitation ar have atteaded to Burlington in our previous Coll Sulam regarding such putcipstion speak fat tisCmsd It is now up to Burlb4m to rrspond. !pi 1014" e:\%w kwa t wWl4 0 .00 LOW m W Aar orom 04k Err Nr 19W Plem aU me aI= you have mie%vd the emlou d prelfinkmr she Visa very "yours. 1 fbt114E� EZRALO COW,wr cLc JCH 1014" al 14 EXHIBIT I ,Trancade: [PERMIT] COMMUN I TY DE VE LO PMENT (40711 Function: [HSTI P E R M I T I D E N T I F I C A T I O N PG. 1 ( 1 [ 1 Permit (80728661 Address [077771 [EDINGER ) [ ) Next Page No.[21 [PLEASE CONTINUE ] I ] Appl.Date404192000] Tract "0 ] Lot "0 ] Block "0 ) Multi -Address? IN) New Tract? IN) rrrrrar+aaaa*a+ra+aw+++wrwwaaaaraaww+wwawwaa+++++aaaarw+arwaa+++a++a+riar+arrra Owrner : (EZRALOW COMPANY 1 Phone : (8181 122225301 Report Dist (242) Addr: [23622 CALABASA RD I C/S/Z:[CALABASAS, CA 91032120 ] arrrrrraraawrrra+++sass+rrarrraraaa++a++a+rrararaawaararaaaarrraararaawaaaaaarr Contractor: ( 1 Phone: I ] St Zip Addr: [ ) [ 1 1 I City. 1 11 ) City Lic: I ) State Lic: ( ] Classes ( I I 1 I 1 If License renewed today, enter initials to indicate receipt of renewal: [ ] ara►rarr+aaaaarraraararwawwawra+aararaarrraararararraaaarrararrrawaaarwaarraaar New Building? (N] Use [COM ] Code [TI ] I ] rrraasaarrrawarar+a Certification 'a+a++++++arrarrrarra++ Fees/Statistics '• "• Builder - Contractor? IN) Builder • Owner? [Y) * Is this a City Job? ; ] Builder Self -Insured? IN) Builder Non -Employer? [N1 ' Administrative Only? ( ] Project Description '• " " ""w'"'*"""""" '••• Notifications ww [TEMPORARY WALLS (PREP FOR DEMO) - INSIDE FAIN ENTRANCE I * let:[ ] [ ] (TO MERVYNS ) • 2nd:[ ) [ ] I 1 " New:[ ] ] rrrraaaa+aa►+araaararaaaarrwawar+arrrrrrrararaarwrwwara+araaararaaaarrarrraa►ra voided: I 1[ I Cancelled: ( 11 ) Expired: ( ]" ] -4 • • • Tranc.,de: [PERMIT! COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (4034J Function: [HST] PERMIT INSPECTION HISTO R Y Permit No. [B0728661 Address ( 7777)(EDINGER )( ] Next Page No. 131 Issued 1041920001 Bldg I ) Plancheck No. I ] Unit Date Inspector Description Rslts Status/Correction I )105252000)1Frisby, C ](FINAL BUILDING I(A It I I ] 105242000) (Frisby, C )[FRAMING ! 1A ) 1 1 I 1[ 11 ][ 1[ ][ 1 l I[ 1[ 1[ 1( 1{ 1 1 ]i li 1I 1[ II 1 [ )I ][ lI !I ][ 1 l )( }[ 1[ 1I 11 1 [ 1[ ][ 1[ 1[ 1( 1 f I{ 11 ][ ][ ]I 1 I It Il 1[ 1( )l 1 [ lI 1l lI II 1[ 1 l ![ ][ ]l 1I ]f 1 I ]I !E )[ 11 )[ 1 EXHIBIT s 4t A: NflTib ~N�XL\�l I DE FE.YDrr:TS µ)M ING70N CENTER ')550CIAT'ES. LL. PUMILIA. CAROL YM NBiA.dldlt3 iNDI L i7TYHI \'F Y. S 1 1 .rrns.r, .1, eF �u�L ec- YAAb6roV4StiART t..:AL, Aclt one M 7 M COMPLAM FILEo-sl:%M0N% IS-SI-ED .ee Pam S 0 LD TRIALDISMISSAL 0 Cv NwNnATORr APPEARANCE CET FOR ER FILED ON BEMLF Of CAPIMYN "ILIA, an lyd. dba 't4RFE OLD CROWS: E'LiZhBM BERG, an 1 .. an ind. dba Tt61EE OLD CROWS. OVERAGE). rl n "1 EEi r1E TO SET COMIPOR TPy4L FILED BY PLAKnF*.8EMMF14W TIDAL SET FOR -I - AT :5 AAR I To SEI CASE FOR TR!A'- FILED 3 NOTICE I" ILED T� i SY I 'AR 1 Hon IIn DivDeMm aalr feI STIPULATION FOR ENTRY OF JbDGFENT SWiED d FIUD 17 IS HEREBY TIP ILAILD. Ah OLD CROWS ELIU aETH BERG incr A dba THREE OLD CROWS. AHD LAROLE NOLL, 7nOr Ona L L 3 HUNTI'GTON BEACH, CA.: FORFEITURE OF THE LEASE ON THE PR ISES. PLAT%TS ASURD A MowKowu JUDG"ML TO THE STIPU - AIO MKT ENTUMD 1 AT n WRIT OF EXE UTION Rf7URNED SATISFIED AS TO POSSESSION AND U—NWSHED s� -1=i • HkAI ING TG) Z0-10 ;ZG'--U[:. LLL THE SUPERIOR COURT OF CAI 7RNIA MUNTY OF ORANGE ,OOWL 01003 U[F LWL11Y71 S 0�ML011DNS FQNo F, MOFSEM AT'!OR%L).%; he f ATTOR?h) ISI i GS [ FFr i i t U%tPI.A1%T FEE F.* S O i, D T1+O CV MANDATORY APPF.ARAI(T Stl tf )A + -- N'LF 0` E 3 :.� B 252C100Vf n6+ `v• lir', 1 ; . gij 'CASE 1 TO MT F& TRIAL. FJED 8y PLMl4T1FF I 1P., TRIAL SFT FOR - I -GU AT ' AQ 2 2000 g,r c 1 1 ` 200 i; !V TM au cure on cp)1)"for cmN A„Ms . RtmiN iippCMb-4 y T1C1w— ipx ON Dy • .,m f.ww 511PULATiON iOR ENTRY OF juDGNENT SIGNED d FILED. ..� 17 IS F._r2EBT STIPULATED BY AND BETWEEN THE PLAIMilrF, hUNI1MG{UN I HAT P AINTIFF BE AWARDED POSSiSSIOh OF THE PREH1 ES 1 LOCATED AT- 1777 E-D1kGER AVE., Sp.pJO6, MUk k N A AN F 55M.QQ RENT E 6 GE5 ?LU5 COSTS OF $475.00. A uR1T CT POSSESSION r.AT BE ISSUED F R nk! T WA -al •, Tr • fl,)RvAr, nr poS�--$SICNUNOERCCP 712.010 FILED - r .. :rF R S U - - ] VtLVHUN KrI UkaNtJ SAJiiwfitdAS TD JJ �JiIu •l):y[l: fI HI [ i _k • r f ;� HE SUPERICA CU'1RT OF CALfFORNIA Coun TY L ')RANGE OOWL 01556 % • _ . 4t�.IHI IFFY 1d0LA.aI fA, fl,r+f!Wt�r+ :F.n"_a aSSDClalES �--`ENDkv1S tlral�+]�c 4T' A•EYr S. C� wo o 4TTDK�E1"iSI JS OAT% COMPLAINT ►ZI.EDl%L."()SS ISSUED nE ►Ao S 0 LAI TRIAL'DLSMSSAL 0 CV MANDATrAl APPEAR4\(-F SET FOR W 1 ZQ� AUS1M FR,ED 8 Aw Y JrAELERS. TNC.. a Cal L fornia dba ASNLY JEwelETLS W 16 2M 090110RANDW TO SET CAN FOR C I 1J TZ"M NOTICE MAILED TO ALL PARTIES. - LVyyyW ELA��vL��V NOR Mqa us cm ca an rvqA" for �ppea+np • � aIDOt:+I'C RFAY ORDERAD' DG D D OEC0.EED THAT PLAINTIFF BE APIARD O FORFEITURE OF THE LEASE, RE51ITOT OH OF ThE?R _ L e NANTIFF AXAADED COSTS '++ Tr.E AMOUNT OF Sd75.00. WRIT OF POSSESS) r KAY BE ISSUED FORTHWITH. EACH ?AR Y PLLO ILALLY WAJVLrTFZ— VO r THEREFOR PLAINTIFF IS HOT OBLIGATED TO CGKPLY WITH CC1950.7. An - T SEIC TO APR I My 0 3 RETURNED SATISFIED AS TO POSSE»iON AND UNSATISF[_p • IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF C' -,We) OF ORANGE c� .+o OOW L =tN INIIrFS �M1W10 DEFEr+U.+J IS ,T_• ING;DN CENTER aSSOL. ! LC 0E1J+LdldJe N( C£NfiigL 7�DING LD_ ATTUR.�t! 11 ATTQRVF F: S, DATE Co%fh-AJ%T FILED-%t,%t%1()%S lSSL[D FEE^W O UD TIJIALrbLSNJSSAL D C%' MA%DATORr APPLARA�Ct I St-T K)R i J 20M qjS7,VE.q i:i CN o: Hnlf gf CMIAL TRADDM_ Cr_., an :r*n Wn buaineSS IJ� enCi[ : JME Mrb.Di]*K)L1D, an ind. dba CEV;vAL TRADING CO. adba ELEE!GAA.W SILKS, i 2 $ cyuuu PO'l k .40 SI(IAL SET F N —Fqf I I AR C 7,� &if PARr.Cq 1 5 200a pslygma In Dk Iimplailt f STIPULA ON 0 ENT2Y OF JUZENT S GNED 3 FILED BUSINESS ENTITY; jESSE HINDERHOUD, inOv I Jioa CENTRAL TRADING CO. 1 a a " RztrwL THAT A MONEY JUDGMENT Si AWARDED IN THE AMOUNT OF SSOO.LC RENT d D ;;;GES PURSUANT TD THE STIPULATION - JUDFiIENT ENTERED KAI T 12m zE55',D•+U'+DE4CCP 712 0 10 F_tLl1� ^�. F Srl op • EXHIBIT K **•TMS IS AN UNEDITED, UNCERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT*O* I A Ward's structure yes. 2 Q Have you ever made the comment you want the Great 3 Indoors to go in the land or building where Wards is 4 located? 5 A Great Indoors is their deal is conditioned upon d going where Wards is currently located, yes. 7 Q Have you told Wards that? $ A No. 9 Q Now, this letter of intent with the Great Indoors 10 what's the square footage is 140 thousand, what's the 1 I price per square foot? 12 A That's, I don't — that's confidential 13 information. 14 Q Are you refuse to go answer that? 15 A Yes. 14 MR SHIPOW: He, I've instructed the witness that if 17 you ask questions that require revealing confidential and 18 proprietary information he can and should refuse to reveal 19 that. 20 BY MR TUCHMAN: 21 Q Now, you have a letter, when was this letter of 22 intent signed of Great Indoors? i 23 A I honestly don't remember the date. 24 Q Aid you negotiate it? 25 A Yes. ***THIS IS AN UNEDITED, UNCERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT*** 28 0 * * *THIS IS AN UNEDITED, UNCERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT* * * 1 city? 2 A No, I mean Paul's LOIs. 3 Q Yes we have, �- 3 4 A That's the best source. Not my memory. i%JV� v� 5 Q Good. Now, have any tenants that you signed LOU 6 within the LOIs said we're going to go in here only on the � to 7 condition that Burlington is gone? 8 A I don`t know. I honestly dont. 9 Q Now, you mentioned that Great Indoors one of the c� 10 conditions of their LOI is that Wards is gone. 11 A Right. 12 Q Now is it that Wards a gone from the site or 13 they're out of that building? 14 A It's location driven So it's just that 15 structure. 16 Q Besides the Great Indoors are there any other L0I3 17 that have been entered into that basically says Wards has 19 to be out of their stYucnue? 19 A No. 20 Q When you spoke to, when's the last time you spoke 21 with W. Biggs? 22 A Thursday. • • 23 Q Is it your regular Thursday meeting with the City? 24 A Yeah, I was on the phone at that time and it 25 wun't physicaiiy there. ***THIS IS AN UNEDITED, UNCERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT*** 38 EXHIBIT L DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 3 3 TUCHMAN & ASSOCIATES 4 BY: AVIV L. TUCHMAN, ESQ. 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY ) 4 KRSTO MIJANOVIC, ESQ. WAREHOUSE OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, ) 3435 Wilshire Boulevard 6 INC., a California Corporation, ) 5 30th Floor Los Angeles, California 90010 7 Plaintiff; 6 (213)385-8000 8 ) vs. ) Case No. 8 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: ) OOCCO6309 WHITMAN, BREED, ABBOTT & MORGAN, LLP 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) 9 BY: MARKS. SHIPOW, ESQ. a Delaware Limited Liability ) 633 West Fifth Street 10 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL. PROPERTIES,) VOLUME I 10 Twenty -First Floor a Delaware Limited Liability ) (Pages 1- 164) Los Angeles, California 90071-2040 11 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) 11 (213) 896-2413 Delaware Limited Liability Company,) 12 12 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive, ) FOR DAVID BIGGS: 13 13 Defendants. ) KANE, BALLMER & BERKMAN 14 BY: R. BRUCE TEPPER, JR., ESQ. 14 515 South Figueroa Street 15 5 15 Suite 1850 Los Angeles, California 90071 - 16 (213)617-0480 17 17-- 18 DEPOSITION OF: 18 19 DAVID BIGGS 19 20 TUESDAY, JULY 25, 2000 20 21 21 i3 23 AUG 1 4 ?000 24 24 25 25 I SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 INDEX 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 7 EXAMINATION BY 3 'Page 6 4 4 5 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY ) 6 WAREHOUSE OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, ) 7 6 INC., a California Corporation, ) 8 EXHIBITS Page 7 Plaintiff, ) 9 Plaintiff's Description Marked 10 1 Notice of Taking Deposition of PMK 25 8 vs. ) Case No. For Redevelopment Agency 9 ) 00CCO6309 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) 11 2 Notice of Taking Deposition of 25 10 a Delaware Limited Liability ) Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) 12 t3 David Biggs 3 Documents Withheld Pursuant to a Delaware Limited Liability ) 14 Evidence Code 1040(bxl) 27 11 Company THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) 4 City Council Study Sessions & Delaware Limited Liability Company,) 15 Special Sessions 38 12 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive, ) 16 5 Declaration of David C. Biggs 52 17 6 11/15/99 - Council/Agency Minutes 80 13 Defendants ) 18 7 later -Department Communication - -- Specific Plan No. 13 97 14 15 19 8 Application 104 16 17 20 9 Letter dated 3/3/00 to Burlington 133 18 19 The Deposition of DAVID BIGGS, taken on behalf of 21 22 10 Lever dated 3/6/00 to Aviv Tuchman 143 20 the Plaintiff, before Amy Saylor, Certified Shorthand 11 Letter dated 3/28/00 to Douglas Gray 145 21 Reporter No. 11560, Registered Professional Reporter, for 23 22 the State of California, commencing at 9:03 a.m., on 12 Development Review Request 147 23 Tuesday, July 25, 2000, at the Law Offices of Tuchman & 24 24 Associates, located at 3435 Wilshire Boulevard, 30th Floor, 13 Project Meeting Agenda 155 25 California. 25 2 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 3 2 1 (Pages 1 to 4) 1 INDEX 2 3 4 INFORMATION REQUESTED 5 (None.) 6 7 8 9 WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER 10 PAGE LINE 11 - 62 5 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tuesday, July 25, 2000; 9:03 a.m. Los Angeles, California 5 DAVID BIGGS, 6 called as a witness by and on behalf of the 7 Plaintiff, and having been first duly sworn by 8 the Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined 9 and testified as follows: 10 11 MR. TUCHMAN: We have received a privileged log 12 which is entitled, "Documents Withheld Pursuant to Evidence 13 Code 1040(bxl)." There are 32 items. I offered to 14 discuss it with Mr. Tepper. He said we should discuss it 15 on the record, which is absolutely fitre with me. I don't 16 want to spend too much time on it. I just want to go 17 through it very quickly, and then well proceed to the 18 deposition. Krsto Mijanovic is here. Take it away. 19 MR. MIJANOVIC: I just want to meet and confer 20 over some of the documents you produced and some of the 21 documents that you have withheld pursuant to the privileged 22 log here. 23 First thing, the privilege that you claim is 24- 1040(b), Section 1, which basically says the disclosures 25 are forbidden by Federal or State law. The privileged log DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 doesn't seem to be specific enough. 2 Can you -- are you willing to produce something 3 more specific? 4 MR. TEPPER: III speak generically about these 5 documents. All of these documents were prepared for 6 discussion in closed section with the City Council and the 7 Redevelopment Agency Board. They're described under the 8 Brown Act -- the Ralph & Brown Act, as a part of 9 redevelopment -- redevelopment and real estate 10 negotiations, and it's actually Evidence Code Section 11 1040(b)(1) and (b)(2). And we believe that the burden of 12 production and the context of redevelopment negotiation 13 outweighs any relevance to anything in this case, and 14 that's really all we have to say. 15 Mr. Biggs can generically discuss any of these 16 documents. Other than the substance, he can describe where 17 they were produced, what they were produced for, 18 generically what they do, but that's about the substance of 19 our objections and the basis for our withholding them. 20 MR. TUCHMAN: Very good. 21 MR. TEPPER: Hold it. One at a time. One of you 22 is going to talk on record today. Which one is it going to 23 be? One person will ask questions. 24 MR. TUCHMAN: I'm asking questions, bufcertainly 25 both of us can meet and confer. Now, just the response to 1 that is, very briefly, that certainly if a document was 2 considered in closed session, that doesn't put it within a 3 zone or cloak of 1040(bxl) or (bx2). If it was prepared 4 for the meeting and considered as part of the meeting and 5 it was prepared for the meeting, that is different than 6 something that happened to be at the meeting. It's like a 7 document that's attorney/client privilege. It's a phone 8 book -- let's say it's a phone book. A phone book reviewed 9 by an attorney doesn't make it attorney/client. Well go 10 over Mr. Biggs' list 11 In addition, would you be willing to stipulate to 12 an in -camera review of the documents in court? 13 MR. TEPPER: If the Court wishes that in 14 conjunction with a Motion to Compel, of course we will 15 produce the documents in -camera. 16 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. So you don't want to enter 17 into such stipulation? You'd rather us file a motion on 18 these issues? 19 MR. TEPPER: You may file whatever motion you 20 wish to file. 21 MR. TUCHMAN: Lastly, are you willing to give us 22 more information on this privileged log that you provided 23 us? 24 MR. TEPPER: I offered Mr. Biggs to describe each 25 with generality. 8 2 (Pages S to 8) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BUv%aNGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. TUCHMAN: Thank you. Let's proceed. EXAMINATION BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Would you state your name and address and phone number for the record. A. Sam It's David Biggs, 2000 Main Street, Huntington Beach, California,, 92648. Q. And what is your residence address? MR. TEPPER: No, you don't have to answer that. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You're not planning on leaving the City any time soon? A. Leaving the City? Q. Yeah, as an employee. A. Other than being in Los Angeles right now, no, I'm not. Q. You're not planning on leaving the City's employ, Huntington Beach? A. No. Q. What is your current phone number? A. (714)536-5582. Q. And what is your current title? A. Director of Economic Development. Q. And where are you employed? A. At the City of Huntington Beach. Q. Are you employed by anyone else as we speak? A. No. Q. Okay. Have you ever had your deposition taken? A. Yes. Q. How many times? A. Probably half a dozen times. Q. Do you know the names of the cases? A. No. Q. When was the last time you had your deposition taken? A. Sometime last year, I think. Q. Do you know what the name of that case was? A. I'm sure Mr. Tepper would know the exact title. It involves property in downtown. I don't recall the specific title. MR. TEPPER: You're the witness. THE WITNESS: Thank you. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You get to answer all the questions. A. It involves property under the name Mulligan. I don't know the precise title of the case. Q. • Okay: And is that case still going on? A. Yes, it is. Q. Okay. What stage is it at? 10 1 A. It's going to trial in September, 2 August/September. 3 Q. Okay. Do you remember when -- the names of any 4 other cases where you've had your deposition taken? 5 A. I don't recall without going back. I mean, I 6 have a 20-year public sector career. It's always involved 7 in litigation in one form or another. 8 Q. Very good. I'm going to go over a few of the 9 admonitions with you. Oh, by the way, did you review any 10 documents in preparation for your deposition today? 11 A. Not specifically. I just have a list of the 12 documents that were produced. 13 Q. Thank you. The oath that you've taken has the 14 same force and effect as if you were testifying in a court 15 of law and obligates you to tell the truth. 16 Do you understand that? 17 A. Yea 18 Q. After the transcript is completed, you'll be 19 asked to review it and sign it under penalty of perjury. 20 You can make certain corrections to the transcript, but at 21 the time of trial, I can comment on those changes and that 22 could prove embarrassing to you, so we ask that you give 23 your best testimony today. 24 Do you understand that? 25 A. Certainly. It's highly unlikely anything can 11 i prove embarrassing, so — 2 Q. Okay. That's fine. If you answer — if you 3 'answer a question of mine or anybody else who is present, 4 we're going to assume you understand what's being asked. 5 Do you understand that? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. If you don4 understand a question for any 8 reason, please ask me to clarify; okay? 9 A. Certainly. 10 Q. Is there any reason that you cannot proceed to 11 have your deposition taken today? Are you under some type 12 of medication or disability that would prevent you from 13 giving your best testimony? 14 A. No. 15 Q. I want to go over your educational background. 16 Where did you attend -high school? 17 A. I graduated from Capistrano Valley High School in 18 Orange County. 19 Q. What year? 20 A. 1978. 21 Q. And please tellme what you did after that. 22 ' A. I finished a Bachelor's degree at Cal State 23 University Fullerton in 1991, and then ultimately did my 24 Master's in business and public administration at 25 University California Irvine. I completed that at the end 7ILICI & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 - 12 3 (Pages 9 to 12) 1 of 1984 and graduated in 1985. 1 2 Q. What type of degree did you get at Fullerton? 2 3 A. Bachelor's degree in political science with 3 4 concentration in public administration and a minor in 4 5 business. 5 6 Q. Since leaving Irvine in 1995, have you had any 6 7 other education? 7 8 A. Yes, a variety of professional association coarse 8 9 work, also a certificate from the University of California 9 10 Santa Cruz, and continuous improvement In quality 10 11 managemeaL 11 12 Q. Do you hold any licenses as you sit here today 12 13 except for your driver's license? 13 14 A. No. 14 15 Q. Have you held any Licenses issued by the State of 15 16 California besides your driver's license since 1978? 16 17 A. No. 17 18 Q. Please describe your employment history. 18 19 A. Starting when? 19 20 Q. When was your first full-time job after Irvine? 20 21 A. No, first fall -time job was starting in after I 21 22 graduated from Cal State Fullerton in June of '81 with the 22 23 City of Santa Ana. 23 24 Q. What did you do for the City of Santa Ana? 24 25 A. Started as a — in a planning position and 25 13 1 finished there as a consultant, and I was called Economic I 1 2 Development Analyst. 2 3 Q. What years were you in Santa Ana? 3 4 A. From 1980 to 1984: 4 5 Q. What was your next full-time job? 5 6 A. As a development project manager for the City of 6 7 Long Beach. 7 8 Q. How long did you have that job? 8 9 A. It was 1984 to 1988. 9 10 Q. And what did you do after that? 10 11 A. I was a business development manager for a South 11 12 Australian Technology Development Corporation. 12 13 Q. Did you go to the private sector? 13 14 A. No, it was a Governmental authority in the state 14 15 of South Aastraft 15 16 Q. How long were you in Australia? 16 17 A. That was ftom 1988 till 1990. 17 18 Q. What did you do after that? 18 19 A. 1990, I became Economic Development Director for 19 20 the City of Morgan HIR, and two years after that I became 20 21 a City's — a City Manager. 21 22 Q. Morgan Hill is located where? 22 23 A. In Santa Clara County. 23 24- Q. 1992 you became City Manager, you say? 24 25 A. Yes. 25 14 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q. How long were you City Manager at Morgan Hill? A. Till199S. Q. And then where did you go? A. City of Huntington Beach to become Economic Development Director. Q. And you held the position with the City of Huntington Beach as Economic Development Director since 1995? A. Yes. Q. Do you have a supervisor? A. Yes. Q. Who is your supervisor? A. Currently it's the City Administrator, Ray Silver. Q. Have your duties as Economic Development Director at the City of Huntington remained the same since the time you started in 1995 till the present, which is the year 2000? A. Yes. Q. Substantially, what are those duties? A. I am also primarily responsible for the City's redevelopment activities, business development activities, affordable housing development, and the Community Development Block Grant Program. Q. Affordable housing is what? 15 A. Development of housing that meets certain affordability requirements. Q. Community Development Block is what? A. Community Development Block Grant is the Federal fund that goes to cities on an annual basis for a variety of social services and public work programs. Q. What does business development mean? A. Business attraction, retention, expansion efforts. MR. TUCHMAN: Can you repeat his answer? (Whereupon the previous answer was read back by the court reporter as requested.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. That's basically to bring business to the city? A. Or help existing businesses expand or keep them in the city, yes. Q. And then you said that you're in charge of redevelopment activity? A. Yes. Q. What does that mean? A. The city has one merged street development project area that consists of five sub areas, and through a variety of programs and efforts, encourage the revitalization of that area in conformance with the Redevelopment Program. 16 4 (Pages 13 to 16) JILIO 81 ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. One of those areas is called the Edinger 1 2 Corridor? 2 3 A No, it's Huntington Center. 3 4. Q. And that's where Burlington Coat Factory is 4 5 located? 5 6 A. Yes. 6 7 Q. Now, do you know what the duties of Ray Silver, 7 8 the City Administrator, are? • 8 9 A. Yes. 9 10 Q. What are those duties? l0 11 A. Generally, he's the Chief Administrator Officer 11 12 of the City. He directs the efforts of all the staff of 12 13 achieving the City's goals and objectives at the direction 13 14 of -- policy direction provided by the City Council. 14 15 Q. Do you, Mr. Biggs, hold any other title besides 15 16 the manager of the Economic Development Program? 16 17 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 17 18 testimony. He's the director. 18 19 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 19 20 Q. You can answer the question. 20 21 A. As the Director of Economic Development, no. The 21 22 job is as described, a day -today administrator in the 22 23 Redevelopment Agency and all the programs that are outlined 23 24 for you. 24 25 Q. I understand your answer, but do you have any 25 17 1 other titles for the City of Huntington Beach? 1 2 A. I don't believe so, but — 2 3 Q. Okay. 3 4 A. -- you know, we have a separate public finance 4 5 corporation. I don't know. I don't recall offhand if I 5 6 was an officer of any of those. 6 7 Q. Okay. That's fine. Have you ever had any other 7 8 titles at the City of Huntington Beach besides the Director 8 9 of the Economic Development Department? 9 10 A. No. 10 11 Q. Have you been the only director of the Economic 11 12 Development Department at the City of Huntington Beach 12 13 between 1995 and the year 2000? 13 14 A. Since I started in October of 1995, yes 14 15 Q. Okay. I want you to tell me,.please, as we sit 15 16 here today, who the — who the people are in — the people 16 17 in your department; their names. 17 18 A. Their names? Let's see. I'll go office by 18 19 office is easier. Linda"Suracci is one; Luann Brunson is 19 20 another. 20 21 Q. I'm sorry, Suracci is S-u-r-a-c-i? 21 22 A. Yes. 22 23 Q. And the other one is? 23 24 A. Luann Brunson; L-a-a-u-n, B-r-u-n-s-o-n; 24 25" Laura Nelson; Bobbie Purdue; Tom Andreski; contract 25 18 employee, Jim Benson; Steve Holtz Gus (Arran; Carol Runzel; Jim Lamb; EJI Naffah.. That's N-a-f-t a-b. And another contract employee, Joyce, just started. I can't remember her last name. We have a summer intern named Richard Juge, J-u-g-e. Q. Now, were all these people that you just listed except for the summer intern, are they there throughout the year2000? A. No. You're taildng about during my tenure? Q. Let me withdraw the question. Has Linda Suracci worked on the redevelopment of the Huntington Center? A. She's my administrative assistant so, yes, she does sometimes process documents and things. Q. So her title is administrative assistant. Luann Brunson, her title is? A. She's the senior administrator analyst. Q. Has she worked on the Huntington Center at all? A. Welk she may because she does the budget and things, so to the extent there's budget activities related to Huntington Center. Q. Okay. Do you have a second in command? A. Gus Duran is the Housing and Redevelopment Manager. Q. He reports directly to you? A. Yes, he does 19 Q. And you would describe him as your second in command? A. Yes Q. No, I'm sorry — A. Noyes. When I'm out of the office, he acts as the acting director. Q. Laura Nelson's title? A. Office specialist Q. Has Laura Nelson worked on the Huntington Center? A. I don't know offhand. She's one of our two clerical support people. Q. And Bobbie Purdue, that's — A. She's an administrative secretary; again, office support position. Q. And Tom Andreski? A. He's an assistant project manager. I don't think he specifically worked on Huntington Center. Q. But he has been the contact person with EDAW? A. Yes, he's doing the Edinger Corridor Specific Planning effort in an economic action plan. Q. Okay. What is that now? A. That's an effort to look at what we call Edinger Corridor between Beach Boulevard and Goldenwest. It will speak out to all the action plans and specific plans, basically for the areas excluding Huntington Center, which JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 20 5 (Pages 17 to 20) I 2 3 4 5 6 F 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 has its own specific plan, It basically goes from the freeway and McFadden Avenue over to a commercial strip along Edinger. Q. Does EDAW, with its scope of work that its been assigned, have anything to do with Huntington Center? A. Only to the extent they need to incorporate the specific plan that's been done there and the design guidelines and things, review what's been accomplished so far with that effort. Q. Does EDAW render any type of vision to the City with respect to how Huntington Center should be developed within the Huntington Center boundary? A. No. Matter of fact, that contract has jest been let, so we haven't really had a kickoff meeting for that effort yet. Q. Thank you. The Jim Benson contract employee, does he have any contact with Huntington Center? A. No. Q. Steve Holtz, any contact with Huntington Center? A. I don't believe so. Q. Carol Ruazel, any contact with Huntington Center? A. I don't believe so. • . Q. Jim lamb, any contact with Huntington Center? A. Yeah, Jim does, in part, a retell recruitment and attraction efforts, so I know he talks to the leasing 21 1 people to get updates and make referrals to him as far as I 1 2 the tenants' interests that we hear about. 2 3 Q. What's Jim Lamb's title? 3 4 A.He's the Development Project Manager. 4 5 Q. What does a Development Project Manager do? 5 6 A. Well, his particular role, he's responsible — 6 7 he's a division manager for the Business Development 7 8 Program. 8 9 Q. Eli Naffah, does he have any contact with 9 10 Huntington Center? 10 11 A. No, I don't believe so. 11 12 Q. Joyce, the contract employee, any contract? 12 13 A. No. 13 14 Q. Summer intern? 14 15 A. I don't believe so. 15 16 Q. Okay. There's a Planning Department at the City 16 17 of Huntington Beach; is that correct? 17 18 A. Yes, there Is. 18 19 Q. What is the relationship of your department, the 19 20 EDD, with planning? 20 21 A. Well, you know, it's all part of the same City 21 22 organization, so they are processing entitlements for 22 23 projects that we have interest in, either redevelopment 23 24 projects or sometimes helping other businesses get through 24 25 the system or one of the departments that review 25 22 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIE[ A Veritext Company- 8( DAVID BIGGS, 07,25.00 BU NGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER L (PlaiatiWs Exhibit 1 was marked 1 2 for identification by the court 2 3 reporter and is attached hereto.) 3 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 4 5 Q. And the Subpoena that was personally addressed to 5 6 you in the Notice of Depo is attached as Exhibit 2; is that 6 7 correct? Please take a look. 7 8 A. Yes, I believe so. 8 9 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 2 was marked 9 10 for identification by the court 10 11 reporter and is attached hereto.) 11 12 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 12 13 Q. Okay. Now, the documents which you've been asked 13 14 for, which are reflected in attachments in both Exhibits 1 14 15 and 2, did you cause the documents to be prepared that are 15 16 responsive to the Subpoenas to the cities as well as to 16 17 you? 17 18 A. We bad the documents produced. I worked with my 18 19 staff to do so. Pursuant to the request received in regard 19 20 to me and for the Redevelopment Agency, we did produce the 20 21 documents that are In our possession. 21 22 Q. Okay. Now, does each department have its own 22 23 files? 23 24 A. Yes. 24 25 Q. Okay. Now, the files that you produced, did you 25 25 1 personally put the documents together, or did you have 1 2 someone do that for you? 2 3 A. Part of it I did; part of it Gus Duran did. 3 4 Q. Okay. And do you know if documents from other 4 5 departments other than the Economic Development Department 5 6 were provided?- 6 7 A. I don't recall the extent we had copies of the 7 8 specific plan, which was a planning dock, then yes, I 8 9 believe they were included, but I'd have to go back over 9 10 the list. 10 11 Q. Well, do you know if the Planning Department's 11 12 files were provided? 12 13 A. I don't know. They were separately asked for. 13 14 Q. Okay. And how do you know they were separately 14 15 asked for? 15 16 A. Well, because I understand tKe same Subpoena went 16 17 to Howard Zelefsky. 17 18 - MR. TUCHMAN: Very good. And the documents that 18 19 were taken out or withheld, I'm going to ask the reporter 19 20 to mark for identification is Exhibit 3. You guys have 20 21 copies of the list? 21 22 THE WITNESS: Yes, the ones withheld, yes. 22 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 24 Q. Do you know who prepared Exhibit 3? 24 25 MR. TEPPER: I did. 25 26 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 3 was marked for identification by the court, reporter and is attached hereto.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Are you familiar with the documents that are listed on Exhibit 3? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you know why the documents that are listed on Exhibit 3 were withheld? A. Yes, because we were still in negotiations with the developer for negotiation of owner participation agreement, and these are the documents we're using to guide those negotiations getting direction from our City Council. Q. And when you say "owner participation agreement," who are you currently negotiating with? A. With Ezralow Retail Properties and to the Huntington Center Associates, LLC. Q. Under what authority are you negotiating with Ezralow and Huntington Center Associates? A. State development law in the action of the Agency Board to direct staff and negotiate with them. Q. When did that actually take place? A. Recently within the last four to six weeks. I don't recall the specific date. 27 Q. Was that on June 19, 2000? A. I don't recall the specific date. Recently — in that time frame without having the document in front of me or a calendar. Q. Have you determined whether any additional OPAs should be entered into? A. No. At this point, we're under direction to negotiate with Ezralow for redevelopment of Huntington Center. Q. Is it possible, in your experience as the Director of Economic Development, to negotiate an OPA with Montgomery Ward? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. Lack of foundation. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer. A. Not at the time. But we're under direction to negotiate exclusively with a single entity. Q. Why is it necessary — have you been told why it's necessary to only negotiate with Ezralow? A. That was the direction provided by the Agency Board. Q. And the Agency Board is the same as the City Council? A. Yes. 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 28 7 (Pages 25 to 28) i Q. Has anyone told you to negotiate an OPA with 2 Montgomery Ward? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Has anyone told you to negotiate an OPA with 5 Burlington Coat Factory? 6 A. No. 7 Q. In your experience as the Director of the 8 Economic Development Department and as Person Most f 9 Knowledgeable for the Redevelopment Agency, is there 10 anything to prevent the Redevelopment Agency from directing It 11 you to enter into or negotiate an OPA with Burlington Coat 1' 12 Factory? 1: 13 A. I would think at this point in time since we're 1: 14 already ender direction and we had — went through our 14 15 owner participation process, that the party with whom we're 1_ 16 negotiating would have some rights under that action. So, it 17 yea I think until we have either successfully or 1 d 18 unsuccessfully concluded our negotiations with the party lE 19 with whom we're exclusively negotiating, no, we cannot 1S 20 enter into discussions with other entities. 2C 21 Q. With respect to the five redevelopment zones, and 21 22 particularly we're talking about the one at Huntington 22 23 Center, is it ever — has it ever — the Economic 23 24 Development Department ever negotiated several OPAs for one 24 25 section? 25 29 1 A. Not within my tenure. 1 2 Q. Do you know if that has ever been discussed for 2 3 any of the five sections? 3 4 A. The downtown area there's — where there's — 4 5 there's been owner participations negotiated with 5 6 individual property owners as part of; like, a sea front 6 7 ficade improvement program, but it wasn't a large, 7 8 comprehensive development as contemplated for Huntington 8 9 Center. I'm trying to think. 9 10 There was one owner participation agreement that 10 11 had a master developer on the site into which they brought 11 12 four or five small property owners, and they entered into a 12 13 joint venture and a joint participation agreement, but to 13 14 the best of my knowledge, have not been separate ones on 14 15 what they view as a single site.- 15 _ 16 Q. As the Director of the Economic Development 16 17 Department and as the Person Most Knowledgeable for the 17 18 Redevelopment Agency, is it possible that the Huntington 18 19 Center could be developed under several OPAs? 19 20 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. 20 21 Lack of foundation. 21 22 THE WITNESS: it is possible, certainly. 22 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 24 Q. Okay. We were talking about the documents before 24 25 we digressed. I note that Nos. I through 32 are listed. 25 30 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIES A Veritext Company- 8+ DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 meetings besides the closed session meeting? 2 A. I don't recall. 3 Q. is that possible? 4 A. I don't recall. 5 MR. SHIPOW: Calls for speculation. 6 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 7 Q. Now, do you know if you've ever discussed the 8 developer qualifications in meetings other than closed 9 sessions? 10 A. Yes, we had discussed it at the time that we made l 1 the selection based on the participation process. There 12 was some information included in that package and that was 13 as part of the records which were produced. 14 Q. Second thing, Item 32, memo, Ezralow background 15 check. It says it's authorized by Carol Freholm, 16 F-r-e-h-o-I-m, and Lynn Sedway, L-y-n-n; Sedway, 17 S-e-d-w-a-y. Who are those two people? 18 A. They're both principals with — excuse me — an 19 economic advisory firm that we utilize, the Sedway Group. 20 Q. And what is the purpose of the Sedway Group? 21 A. We use them for — they provide sometimes market 22 assessments for us. They also sometimes assist us as part 23 of our negotiating team on redevelopment projects. Those 24 are the two main ways we use them. 25 Q. Now, this is a memo prepared by the Sedway Group 33 1 analyzing Ezralow? 2 A. They — my recollection is they contacted people 3 that they knew in both the public and private sector in 4 reference to Ezralow, the developer, and the types of 5 projects they had undertaken. 6 Q. How many pages is that memo, if you recall? 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. The next item, 8/16/99, which is Item 30, it says 9 "Closed Session Outline." This is authored by 10 David Biggs. How long was that outline? 11 A. It would probably only be —just thinking back 12 to any of the closed sessions, a closed session outline is 13 probably only a page or two. 14 Q. And the closed session — what was the purpose 15 of that closed session? 16 A. For the Agency Board to give its negotiators 17 direction in tegard to real estate transactions. 18 Q. Do you know who was in attendance -- or strike 19 that 20 The Closed Session Outline dated 8/16/99, when 21 was that closed session? 22 A. Well, without a calendar in front of me, if 23 8/16/99 was a Monday, it was probably on 8/16/99. Without 24 the document in front of me, I don't know if the date 25 refers to the date it was produced or the day of the 34 1 session. 2 Q. 8/16/99 is a Monday, by the way. 3 A. It was probably for the Council meeting dated 4 8/16/99. 5 Q. Okay. Do you know how long that closed session 6 lasted on 8/16? 7 A. No, I don't recalL 8 Q. Do you know if it was right before a Council 9 meeting? 10 A. They usually are, yes. 11 Q. Who called for that closed session? 12 A. I'm usually the one who prepares the request for 13 the closed session. 14 Q. Was there anything that was determined or decided 15 at that closed session? 16 A. No. If there would have been, there would have 17 been an announcement at the conclusion of the closed 18 session. 19 Q. By virtue of the fact there was no announcement, 20 you were able to tell there was no -- there was no decision 21 or resolution? 22 A. No. If anything, we get general direction as to 23 negotiations, and until we actually have a conclusion of 24 our negotiations, then it comes forward in a public meeting 25 in a form of an owner participation agreement which would W 1 be subject to a public hearing with all the required 2 noticing and documentation. So there could be' no final 3 decision on negotiations. That has to occur in an open 4 session. 5 Q. Now, why did you have closed sessions to discuss 6 Ezralow before Ezralow owned the property? 7 A. Well, I'll have to go back and recreate -- we 8 were in negotiations during that time with Macerich in 9 relationship to their ownership of the center, and we were 10 exploring options in relationship to their plans to sell it the center. 12 MR. TUCHMAN: Macerich is M-a-c-e-r-i-c-h. 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 Q. Well, were you, as the Director of the Economic 15 Development Department, pleased that Macerich was selling 16 out? 17 A. I don't know if I'd describe it as pleased. Our 18 goal is to see that something happens with Huntington 19 Center, and if Macerich didn't want to undertake the 20 redevelopment of the center, then, you know, I guess they 21 said someone else bought it that had an interest in doing 22 so was a positive thing. I don't think really pleased has 23 anything to do with it. 24 Q. Macerich couldn't get -- could not -- could not 25 get the property developed; is that right? ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 36 9 (Pages 33 to 36) t# I A. I don't believe that would be the case. I think 2 they chose not to do it. 3 Q. Okay. Do you know why they chose not to do it? 4 A. No. I would be speculating. 5 Q. Okay. Now, did you, on August 2, 1999, announc 6 the forthcoming sale by Macerich of the Huntington Mall 1 Ezralow? 8 A. I don't recall 9 Q. Okay. Is there some reason why on August 2, 10 1999, you made this announcement? 11 A. Are you referring to a specific announcement o 12 Q. Oh, yeah, an announcement made in a meeting on 13 8/2/99. 14 A. Well, if you'd like to show me what you're 15 referring to, it might refresh my memory, but I don't 16 recall specifically a particular announcement. 17 Q. Okay. I'm looking at the Minutes, but that's 18 fine. 19 A. Minutes for what? 20 Q. 8/2/99 Council Agency Minutes. 21 MR. TEPPER: If you don'tremember in the absence 22 of a document being produced for you, you don't have to 23 speculate. 24 THE WITNESS: Okay. I don't recall. 25 J 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 Q. Okay. III show you — I11 mark as Exhibit 4, 3 it's a City Council Study Session & Special Sessions. 4 They're a collection of pages of Minutes. 5 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 4 was marked 6 for identification by the court 7 reporter and is attached hereto.) 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 Q. U you look at the 8M99, I think it's page 7, 10 the very back page is where I'm looking. It says, 11 "Announcement Regarding Sale of Huntington Center Mall to 12 Ezralow Properties Edinger." 13 Do you see that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Does that refresh your recollection with respect 16 to the announcement you made on 8/2/99? 17 A. I believe it was in response to a question from a 18 Council member, and it was because there was a study 19 session earlier in the day where Ezralow came in as the 20 proposed purchaser of the mail and presented their 21 qualifications as a developer. 22 Q. And did they present any written documents at the 23 study session? 24 A. I don't recall. 25 Q. Okay. Now, the closed session outline that you 38 S )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERT A Veritext Compai DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 middle page. Take a look there. Julian is J-u-1-i-a-n. 1 2 Hang on a second. It looks like it's the face page right 2 3 here. Pm sorry. 3 4 A. What's the date of it? 4 5 Q. It's September 7th. Were you in attendance at 5 6 that meeting? These are the Minutes of the City Council 6 7 Redevelopment Agency, City of Huntington Beach. 7 8 A. Yes, I believe so. 8 9 Q. It says, "Bryan Ezralow, President of Ezralow 9 10 Company, introduced partners Doug Gray and Gary Freedman as 10 11 City Council members." It says on the next -- top of the 11 12 next page, "In response to the question by Planning 12 13 Commissioner Ed Laird," L-a-i-r-d, "the Ezralow Company's 13 14 representatives informed him that the company was 14 15 approaching the project as a Redevelopment Agency -assisted 15 16 project.-" 16 17 As of.September 7, 1999, to your knowledge, what 17 18 did the Redevelopment Agency represent to Ezralow relative 18 19 to their anticipated purchase of the shopping center? 19 20 MR. TEPPER: Objection. Calls for speculation as 20 21 to what Ezralow thought they were going to get out of 21 22 this. 22 23 You can answer. 23 24 THE WITNESS: Well, also I'm confused. You asked 24 25 another question about Council Member Julian and referred 25 41 1 to this document. 1 2 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 3 Q. Yeah. 3 4 A. Well, what did that have to do with this 4 5 document? You talked about Council Member Julian. 5 6 Q. Oh, yeah. 6 7 A. Okay. Well, I'm sorry. I don't understand the 7 8 reference to that Could you please finish with the first 8 9 question that you asked? 9 10 Q. You said you didn't remember, so I moved on. 10 11 A. Okay. Well, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that, 11 12 because it sounded like you referred to this in 12 13 relationship to this gaesdom 13 14 At this point in time, the specific quote here 14 15 was Mr. IAfrd, as many of our Planning Commissioners and 15 16 council members, they want to know -up front if the project 16 17 is going to be asking for a planning assistant The 17 18 developers indicating they were hopeful that the 18 19 Redevelopment Agency would assist financially with the 19 20 project. 20 21 MR. SHIPOW: Can I have that answer read back? 21 22 (Whereupon the previous answer was read 22 23 back by the court reporter as requested.) 23 24 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 24 25 Q. Did Ezralow ever get the financial assistance 25 42 from the Redevelopment Agency? A. That's the subject of the current negotiations. Q. What did the Economic Development Department and the Redevelopment Agency say to Ezralow prior to November 16, 1999, relative to assisting them in that project? A. Well, relative to financial assistance, we had — they knew, and they bad from Macerich, proposals. We had been going back and forth for financial assistance for the Macericb project, so they -- I believe they had an expectation that they would get financial assistance as long as they produced a project of similar quality or better. Q. Now, when you say "financial assistance," does that mean money or adjustments on fees or something else? A. Typically, it's in transactions we've been doing similar to Huntington Beach where it's working with our financial consultants to identify if there's a financial feasibility gap given what the project is. Usually, we don't do fee waivers or adjustments, but the developer has to front all project costs if we determine there Is a supportable gap. After some negotiations we may agree to repay that gap over a period of time after project completion from certain project -generated revenues, but we don't put any, cash In 43 the project up front, nor do we waive fees. Q. What financial assistance did you offer or did you, at the Redevelopment Agency, offer Ezralow prior to November 16, 1999? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. That may call for confidential information protected by the Evidence Code sections. THE WITNESS: And I don't believe anything specific. If we asked them to submit Pro Formas for analysis, and we're really in those discussions at this point in time as far as what the financial package might be for the redevelopment of the center. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You're talking about financial assistance. I want to know — expand the question now to other assistance that the Redevelopment Agency can provide as assistance to Ezralow. Prior to November 16, 1999, was there any other assistance that was discussed? A. I don't recall specifically. You know, we do provide assistance in helping people get through the entitlement system. We were co -applicant for the specific plan, those kinds of things, you know. We make referrals. Ezralow, for example, was working with some other smaller tenants to have them move out of the center, those whose leases were up. And the Business Development staff gave 44 11 (Pages 41 to 44) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787. - LI 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 t0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 People Ilsts of centers in the city that have vacant space available, things like that; provide them with information about small business lending, things passed on to tenants. We also do work In retail recruitment effort, and that's ongoing lending city-wide, retail recruitments for retail prospectives. So we have a booth each year at the International Shopping Center, which we market at Huntington Beach for retailers to locate. So we refer people and have them market materials for Huntington Celle as far as the retail projects in the city. Q. You mentioned co -applicant. I didn't understand that. A. The Redevelopment Agency was a co -applicant for the specific pis& Q. When? A. It goes back to even when Macerich was an applicant. We were co -applicant for the original specific PIM Q. And there's a written document that reflects that? A. Yes. Q. When -- was it the Redevelopment Agency and the City were co -applicants with Ezralow? A. The — Howard Zelefsky would be better equipped to explain that, but we always view the City as processing 45 a specific plan. The City usually is processing specific plans. It's not usual that the Redevelopment Agency would be a co -applicant. We have dome it, and we did it with the application by Macerich. In the case of the Edinger Corridor Specific Plan, the Redevelopment Agency is the applicant there. So the City and the Redevelopment Agency are the co -applicant for the Edinger Corridor Specific plan, Q. Now, did the Redevelopment Agency ever say to Ezralow that, "Were going to use our police powers to condemn out Burlington?" A. No. We had general discussions(teducations about the different powers Redevelopment has, but we always viewed that being the developer's role to endeavor to address existing tenants and lease interests in property application decisions. So, no, other than just educational kinds of Information as to, "Do we have the ability to utilize our imminent domain authority in the redevelopment project area?" And specifically — no specific discussions as far as tenants In the time frame you're talking about. Q. Well, I'm talking about now a time frame that is all the way up until today. Have you ever, as the Person Most Knowledgeable from the Redevelopment Agency, and as the Director of the Economic Development Department for the City of Huntington Beach, ever had any conversations with 46 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERT1 A Veritext Compan, DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER t responsibility as a private property owner to address the 2 situation mach to the fabrications I see you making in 3 reladoneNp to the supposed things that have occurred. We 4 really have tried to stay out of it. 5 Q. Why have you tried to stay out of it? 6 A. Because at this point in time, one, we don't have 7 any sort of agreement with Ezralow to assist them 8 financially or otherwise with the project, and that will 9 come forward through a public approval process when and K 10 that occurs; No. 2, we don't litre to get mired In private 11 party disputes. 12 Q. You want to save the tax payers some money? 13 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. 14 THE WITNESS:. I'm not doing the City a whole lot 15 of good sitting here for three or four hours as far as 16 getting ahead of things and getting things done. 17 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 18 Q. I still haven't gotten a complete answer. How 19 many times have you discussed Burlington? I'm not 20 interested in Dollar Dazzle or the optometrist. 21 A. I don't recall. 22 Q. Is it more than five? 23 A. Probably would be more than five. It's not 24 something that's discussed every time we meet, but, you 25 .know, generally, they would give as the status on how 49 1 they're doing with a variety of tenants as far as 2 recruitment and/or trying to, you know, incorporate people 3 into the center. 4 Q. Do you ever speak to Mr. James Hughes? 5 A. Occasionally. 6 Q. How many times have you spoken to Mr. James 7 Hughes? 8 A. He's quite often in meetings where we meet with 9 Ezralow where we have our attorney present, but to the 10 extent he's in those meetings, it's probably been — oh, I 11 don't know — six, six to eight times. 12 Q. Prior to December of 1999, how many times did you 13 meet with James Hughes? 14 A. I don't recall specifically. 15 Q. More than three? 16 A. I don't recall. I couldn't telCyou if it was 17 before December of'" or after December of'". 18 Q. Did you ever meet James Hughes prior to December 19 of '99T 20 A. I don't recall specifically. 21 Q. Okay. 22 Q. Did you ever speak to an attorney named John 23 Dee? 24 A. John Dee, I know who he is. I don't recall it I 25 ever spoke with him. I Q. Did you ever speak with a Mr. Shipow, who is to 2 your right? 3 A. I met him for the Ilrst time today. 4 Q. Have you spoken with him on the phone regarding 5 your declaration that you provided? 6 A. No, I don't reca0. 7 Q. You did provide a declaration in this case? 8 A. Yes, a declaration, yes. I don't recall spealdng 9 with Mark about iL 10 Q. Who did you meet with regarding the declaration? 11 A. Mr. Tepper. 12 Q. And that was back in March -- let me see here. 13 That was back in March of 2000? 14 A. It would have been at the time the declaration 15 was prepared. 16 Q. Okay. Why did you prepare the declaration? 17 MR. TEPPER: To the extent that that relies on 18 attomey/client advice, I would assert an attorney/client 19 privilege. 20 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 21 Q. Okay. Do you know why you prepared the 22 declaration? 23 THE WITNESS: Do you want me to — 24 MR. TEPPER: I think he's — you can answer "yes" 25 or "no" to the question. 51 1 THE WITNESS: Well, if you71 refresh my memory 2 by providing me with the declaration. 3 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 4 Q. You want to see? 5 A. Yeah, I mean, I do lots of declarations in 6 litigation. This isn't the only case in which we're being 7 sued as a City. 8 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. I'm going to ask the 9 reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 5 the 10 declaration of David Biggs. III have to make an extra 11 copy.. Hang on one second. 12 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 5 was marked 13 for identification by the court 14 reporter and is attached hereto.) 15 MR. TEPPER: I'm going to take a short break for 16 the bathroom and other purposes. 17 MR. TUCHMAN: Very good. Let's take a short 18 break. 19 (A brief recess was taken.) 20 MR. TUCHMAN: Let's go back on the record. 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN:- 22 Q. I provided you with Exhibit 5, the declaration of 23 David Biggs. Do you have it in front of you? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did you have a chance to review it? M 13 (Pages 49 to 52) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 0 1 A. Yes. 1 2 Q. Is that your signature on page 3 of the 2 3 declaration? 3 4 A. Yes. 4 5 Q. Okay. And you signed this on or about 5 6 March 20th, 2000; is that correct? 6 7 A. Yes. 7 8 Q. And why did you provide this declaration? 8 9 MR. TEPPER: Subject to the attorney/client 9 10 privilege. 1C 11 THE WITNESS: My recollection is that we were 11 12 asked to do so. Actually, it came to me via Mr. Tepper's 12 13 office, and I think we were asked for it by Ezralow in 13 14 relationship to litigation they had pending at that moment. 14 15 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 15 16 Q. Okay. Did you explain to anybody that the City 16 17 didnI want to get involved in the litigation and so it 17 18 would not provide the declaration? 18 19 A. Well, at this point in time, the reason we 19 20 provided the declaration ia, specifically, we had an, 20 21 interest in moving forward with the specific plan, and if I 21 22 recall, this was an endeavor to preclude that. So it 22 23 wasn't the City's interest in this particular matter to 23 24 provide a declaration in that regard. 24 25 MR. TUCHMAN: I'd like to have the question and 25 53 1 answer back. 1 2 (Whereupon the previous question and answer were 2 3 read back by the court reporter as requested.) 3 4 MR. TUCHMAN: Can I have my question read back? 4 5 (Whereupon the previous question was read 5 6 back by the court reporter as requested.) 6 7 THE WITNESS: Could you clarify? In particular 7 8 response to this declaration or -- 8 9 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 10 Q. Yes. As of March 20th, 2000, did you say to 10 11 anybody, "I don't want to provide a declaration. The City I 12 doesn't want to get involved"? 12 13 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. 13 14 THE WITNESS: No. I think you're taking out of 14 15 context my earlier statement. So we generally try to avoid 15 -- 16 litigation and we weren'tthe instigators of litigation in 16 17 this particular regard. 17 18 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 18 19 Q. Okay. I'm going to ask it again. Did you 19 20 explain to anybody on March 20th, 2000, that the City did 20 21 not want to provide a declaration because it -did not want 21 22 to get involved in litigation? 22 23 A. I don't recall. 23 24 Q. Okay., Was there another declaration that was 24 25 provided to you by Mr. Shipow? 25 54 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIE: A Veritext Company- 8, DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00, BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 and one or two of her associates. It varies from meeting 1 2 to meeting. 2 3 Q. Who is Saybrook Capital? 3 4 A. Saybrook Capital, I think they're serving as a 4 5 financial advisor to Ezralow. 5 6 MR. TUCHMAN: S-a-y-b-ro-o-k. 6 7 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 7 8 Q. Now, Saybrook Capital, they're not — they 8 9 haven't been hired by the City; is that right? 9 10 A. No. 10 11 Q. The City hired Keyser Marston? 11 12 A. Keyser Marston. 12 13 Q. K-e-y-s-e-r, Marston, who is. that? 13 14 A. They're a financial advisory economic analysis 14 15 firm that we use. They and Sedway. We rotate between two 15 l6 firms for economic and financial advisory work. 16 17 Q. Why did you use both Sedway and Keyser Marston in 17 18 this case? 18 19 A. Well, when we used Sedway earlier on, that was 19 20 before we actually were in financial discussions, and we 20 21 used Sedway because they have — I'll describe, they're as 21 22 being — you know, Keyser Marston does some market 22 23 assistance. Sedway is the stronger firm in my mind as far 23 .24 as knowing players in the retail industry and having a 24 25 better knowledge of retail development as far as the 25 57 1 marketplace. 1 2 Q. What information did you seek from any source as 2 3 to Burlington Coat Factory? 3 4 A. At which — what kind of information do you -- 4 5 Q. Financial information, background, lease 5 6 information, anything. 6 7 A. Well, we did our request for owner participation 7 8 into which there was a very limited response from 8 9 Burlington. 9 10 Q. Well, I'm talking about work that you had a 10 11 consultant do like Sedway or — 11 12 A. We didn't have them look at Burlington. We 12 13 weren't looking that specific at that point in time. We 13 14 were not looking — we were only looking at the question 14 15 that Macerich had selected to sell the center to Ezralow, 15 16 so we were doing some background information on Ezralow. 16 17 Q. As of March 20th, 1999, when you did this 17 18 declaration, Exhibit 5, did you have -- did you, at the 18 19 Economic Development Department at the City of Huntington 19 20 Beach, have the Burlington lease in your possession? 20• 21 A. I don't believe so. I don't think I've ever seen 21 22 a Burlington lease. 22 23 Q. Do you know when that lease expires? 23 24 A. No, not offhand. 24 25 Q. Do you know that that lease is a long-term lease? 25 58 A. We do know it exceeds the term that requires — I do know the term is longer than that that requires us to consider them in an owner participation process. Q. Whether there's 20 years remaining on the lease? A. I don't recall if that's the definition, so — but based on the advice of Mr. Kane, when he — MR. TEPPER: Easy. I would caution the witness about the anomey/client privilege. THE WITNESS: Okay. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Mr. Biggs, did you ever direct anyone at the Economic Development Department or any employee at the City of Huntington Beach not to communicate with anybody from Burlington Coat Factory? A. No, not at all. Q. Did you ever direct anyone in the Economic Development Department or any other employee or agency in the City of Huntington Beach to provide misinformation to Burlington Coat Factory? A. No, not to the best of my knowledge. Q. Now, Keyser Marston, what information did you provide Keyser Marston? A. Well, we used Keyser Marston in this regard, they get the Pro Formas from the developer that talks about the scope of the development, the cost, the anticipated revenue 59 that tenants would be paying. They do an analysis of that, whether or not those costa and revenues are reasonable in the marketplace, and they basically prepare this gap analysis, so — MR. TEPPER: Did you get that, "gap"? THE Wfi'NESS: Gap analysis. MR. TEPPER: Perhaps it's just my ears. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. When you say "gap," do you mean g-a-p or g-a-a-p? A. Ga-p. Q. And the gap analysis means if -- they might need financial assistance to make sure the project gets done? A. Right. If you look at their — very simple explanation is when you talk about development economics being relatively simple math, you've got certain costs associated with developing a project, land and construction, interest, other professional fees. You take the total anticipated income from the project and using some generally accepted capitalization rates, you look at how much cost the income will support in giving the developer a reasonable return on their investment. If the income doesn't support the reasonable cost, then that's a gap, Q. What assistance has Ezralow asked you from the City of Huntington Beach as the Economic Development 60 15 (Pages 57 to 60) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Director and as the Person Most Knowledgeable from the Economic Development — or from the Redevelopment Agency, what assistance has Eaalow asked from you? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. May call for confidential information. THE WITNESS: That's still being negotiated. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. What assistance have they asked of you relative to Burlington Coat Factory? A. None at this point in time. Q. They've never asked you for any assistance? No one from Ezralow has ever asked the Redevelopment Agency or the Economic Development Department for any assistance of any kind in the suit against Burlington Coat Factory? A. In regard to the litigations, no. When you say "assistance," again, financial assistance is not divied out based on tenants in the center or not in the center. And other than that, there's been no specific request for assistance in regard to Burlington or Montgomery Ward's or any other tewwL Q. What was the conclusion of Keyser Marston? A. Well — MR. TEPPER: Wait a minute. That's a bit broad, and certainly he's asking for the substance of a report that we're claiming a privilege on. So if you want to 61 narrow that down a little bit — BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Was there a gap? A. Yes, there wiD be a gap. Q. Okay. Do you know how much that gap is? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. MR. TEPPER: Objection. Calls for privileged information. MR. TUCHMAN: Are you instructing him not to answer? MR. TEPPER: Yes. MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. _ Has the report been completed? A. No.. Q. What other types of things will be addressed in the Keyser Marston report? A. Really, just the financial terms. Q. Are there any reports from any independent consultants, whether they were retained by the City of Huntington Beach or the Redevelopment Agency or not relative to the status and condition to Burlington Coat Factory? A. When you say "status and condition," could you elaborate? JILIQ & ASSOCIATES CERTIFI A Veritext Company- DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A. Use the information to help understand, you know, 1 A. WeII, our overall discussions, the tenant mixture 2 the pros and coos of economic transactions we're involved 2 of the center, w" you know, we haven't been — we don't 3 in. 3 have a listing of all the proposed tenants for the center. 4 Q. Why would the value of the Burlington Coat 4 We've had discussions in the past very earlier on with 5 Factory leasehold and the fixtures help you in evaluating 5 Ezralow where they indicated they were working to 6 the transaction? 6 re -incorporate Burlington into the center. And so realty 7 A. Well, because Burlington is a major tenant and 7 at this point in time, we're waiting for the developer to 8 contributes to,the value of the center. It helps us to 8 really finalize their program for development, and then 9 determine things like assessed value, things along that 9 that will assist as in evaluating that and at what role 10 line, the factor in public revenues that we get from the 10 we'll play in that. 1 t site. It could be from any number of reasons. 11 Q. Who said they wanted to re -incorporate Burfington 12 Q. Aren't you able to determine what the taxes are 12 to the center? 13 generated straight from the Burlington sales tax reports? 13 A. Early on, both — had discussions with both 14 A. We're not talking about sales tax. I'm talking 14 Doug Gray and Bryan Ezralow and some of their other 15 about property value and what their leasehold value is for 15 principals about that being an option. 16 the purposes of property tax increment, which would be one 16 Q. That's — when you say "earlier on," you mean in 17 illustrative — 17, 1999? 18 Q. Are the purposes of your appraisals to establish 18 A. I've been in 2000 as well. I don't recall 19 whether the City of Huntington Beach and the Redevelopment 19 specifically. Matter of fact, we fairly recently had that 20 Agency are looking to condemn the property? 20 discussion the time the specific plan was approved just 21 A. No, not necessarily. 21 discussing that. Depending on the ultimate size that 22 Q. Is that an option? 22 Burlington wanted, it could be accommodated within the 23 A. Well, certainly, an appraisal would be helpful if 23 specific plan. 24 we're ever led to go down that course. 24 Q. Who else was present during that conversation? 25 Q. Do you know if an election has been made? 25 A. I don't recall. 65 1 67 1 A. No. 1 Q. Has any money been deposited by Ezralow, any 2 Q. Do you know whether an election would be made as 2 Ezralow entity, or Huntington Center Associates with the 3 to Burlington Coat Factory being condemned? 3 City? 4 A. At the time that we ever make an offer and 4 A. I don't believe so. 5 negotiate in good faith with Burlington, if a decision is 5 Q. When do you anticipate that's going to happen? 6 made to do any acquisitions. And then after there is a 6 MR. TEPPER: Assuming something is going to 7 noticed public hearing and the City Council or 7 happen. 8 Redevelopment Agency Board conduct required hearings and 8 THE WITNESS: If we enter into an owner 9 hears Ave out of seven votes In favor of resolution on the 9 participation agreement, usually there's a good faith 10 assessment. 10 deposit that goes into effect on every project to cover our 11 Q. When you talk about the business transaction, you 11 costs if the transaction doesn't go to our head. But, no, 12 need the value of the Burlington Coat Factory leasehold, 12 there's been — there may or may not be any deposited funds 13 futures, bonus value, and anything related to the value of 13 needed. It depends on what the Agency would be incurring 14 Burlington because you need to know how much -- how much 14 in possible expenses, and that's not been determined yet. 15 Ezralow has to pay for the center? 15 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 16 A. Well, one,• I don't — personailj; I don't know 16 Q. Why has it not been determined yet, because the 17 everything that the appraiser is doing in that review. 17 OPA is not final? 18 taus would have a better sense of what's included in that 18 A. No, because we're still negotiating the 19 contract, so I can't speak to bow they're valuing the 19 transaction and we don't know the final composition of the 20 various elements for the appraisal. 20 center at this time. 21 Q. When you do your OPA, does the value of 21 Q. When you say the final transaction, that means 22 Burlington factor into it at all? 22 the OPA; right? 23 A. Maybe, maybe not. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Well, what determines whether it is a factor or 24 Q. When do you anticipate the OPA will be completed? 25 not? 25 A. Sometime early fall. 66 1 68 17 (Pages 65 to 68) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Q. What does that mean? 1 2 A. I guess if you look at the clock based on the 2 3 seasons, it could be anywhere between, you know, first of 3 4 September to middle of October. 4 5 Q. Now, do you believe that the OPA will be 5 6 completed within the 60 days of June 19th? 6 7 A. No, I don't. 7 8 Q. Okay. Do you need to go back to the City Council 8 9 or Redevelopment Agency to request additional time? 9 10 A. Not necessarily, no. 10 11 Q. Is there an outside length of time as to how long 11 12 negotiations for an OPA exist? 12 13 A. Is there an outside — 13 14 Q. Yes. 14 15 A. No. 15 16 Q. Why is this taking longer? 16 17 A. Pardon? 17 18 Q. Why do you believe it will go past 60 days from 18 19 June 19th? 19 20 A. The renegotiation agreements are very 20 21 complicated. We have to have Keyser Marston prepare a 21 22 33433 report We have to actually notice — once we have 22 23 the documentation complete, we have to notice it for public 23 24 hearing at least 15 days prior to the public hearing date, 24 25 and all reports have to be complete at that point in time.. 25 69 1 So once the statutory requirements are considered for the 1 2 owner participation agreement, complete all the 2 3 documentation that's necessary, it just takes time. 3 4 There's another project we did in downtown 4 5 recently where we originally were renegotiating for six 5 6 months and that took owner participation agreements. It's 6 7 not an unusual thing if it tapes more time than our best 7 8 hope. 8 9 Q. I want you to take a look at Exhibit 4, which you 9 10 have here, the face page. Do you recognize the face page 10 11 of Exhibit 4? 11 12 A. I recognize its format 12 13 Q. What is it? 13 14 A. It's one of— the staff and the City 14 15 Administrator's once just prepares regular update of 15 16 study sessions and specialty sessions of the City Council. 16 17 Q. Is there anything on the face page of Exhibit 4 17 18 that pertains to Huntington Center? 18 19 A. Well, the study session on Edinger Corridor, 19 20 although, I don't actually believe — that was January of 20 21 '99. That generally surrounds the Huntington Center area 21 22 and major projects update. That's an update done by the 22 23 Planning Department on all major projects or processing 23 24 throughout the City. They may have mentioned Huntington 24 25 Center in passing from a planning perspective, but I don't 25 70 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER know, one, if these suggestions actually took place: or, two, what was specifically discussed- Q. Okay. Thank you. Who is Jim Rabe, R-a-b-e? A. Jim Rabe, he's the principal of Keyser Marston. Q. And I want you to take a took back at Exhibit 3. Looking at 27, Huntington — 27, "10/13/99, Huntington Center La Salle Macerich Comparison," what is that? A. Without seeing it specifically, to the best of my recollection, he was looking at the difference between what La Salle was actually — before Macerich bought Huntington Center, it was owned by La Salle, managed by Macerich, and we were comparing the economics of a transaction that was a proposal of La Salle versus the transaction of Macerich. - Q. What does the Economic Development Department and the Redevelopment Agency of the City of Huntington Beach want, money or looks? A. Both. MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous. THE WITNESS: If you're referring to my wife, I would say beauty and personality. It didn't come with any money. If you're talking about the Redevelopment Department, our goal is to have high -quality development that also generates positive public revenues. 71 BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Has the Economic Development Department or Redevelopment Agency caused any studies of the type of traffic flow and retail of business that Burlington Coat Factory generates on its own? A. We have access to the sales tax information from Burlington, but beyond that, not specifically. Q. Have you at the Redevelopment Agency and at the Economic Development Department looked at those figures? A. Yes. Q. And what has been your conclusion? A. Been our conclusion? That Burlington is a reasonable retailer. Q. When you say "reasonable," do you believe that as the Person Most Knowledgeable for the Redevelopment Agency that Burlington Coat Factory, in and of itself, and the type retailer it is, fits in with the scheme of your redevelopment? A. The scheme of our redevelopment? Q. Yes. MR. TEPPER: Is that ambiguous? THE WITNESS: I mean, you know, if you can clarify. You're talking specifically as part of the Huntington Center? 72 18 (Pages 69 to 72) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Yes. A. Well, really, they may or they may not. It depends on the overall developer's goals and the co -tenancy that might come out of that, so I really couldn't answer for yon. Burlington has been in town for a while. We've always called on them for ICSC, with their real estate people to be in touch with them. They used to have a building across the street. You know, Burlington's a reasonable, fine retailer. Does it work in every center across the country? Not necessarily. Is it going to work here? I don't know yet. We're still waiting for the developer to give as an indication of the kinds of tenants that will be locating in the center and whether Burlington or any other tenants fit In that mix. Q. Is it up to the Agency to determine whether Burlington Coat Factory is one of the tenants that should be in the tenant mix at the new Huntington Center, which is now called The Crossings? A. Could you repeat the question? MR. TUCHMAN: Please read the question back. (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: Well, not necessarily. Exclusively our decision, no. 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 73 Q. Whose decision is it? A. Well, one, the property owner's decision. They have an existing contractual relationship that they need to work oat, and we, as a Redevelopment Agency, decide to take a tenant out against the wishes of a property owner. I'm trying to think of another scenario, having worked in a lot of cities where I was in redevelopment, you know, sometimes it does happen. You know, I think of the redevelopment of Main. Place in Santa Ana where my recollection is the City ultimately did decide to acquire some property. But in that instance; it was a fee ownership interest. So, again, it depends on the circumstances, and that's not really been discussed or fleshed out at this point in time. Q. So as we sit here today — — A. We have the technical authority to make the decision, the legal authority to make the decision, but that's not something we.usually do in a vacuum. They go through the public hearing process, get community input, also working with property owners and tenants in trying to develop the best project overall. That is in our sole discretion. Q. As we sit here today on July 25th, 2000, is it the -- is it up to the Agency to determine as of today 74 1 whether Burlington Coat Factory remains at Huntington 2 Center, which is supposed to be called now The Crossings? 3 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Asked and answered. 4 Argumentative. 5 THE WITNESS: It may or may not. The decision 6 hasn't been made yet. 7 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 Q. Has that decision as to whether Burlington Coat 9 Factory remains or does not remain in the tenant mix been 10 taken away from the owner/developer, Ezralow/Huntington 11 Center Associates? 12 A. Not yet, but it may. 13 Q. Under what circumstances would it be taken? 14 A. I wouldn't speculate as to that. It would 15 ultimately require a decision by the Agency Board. 16 Q. Is there anything on calendar relative to taking 17 away that decision from Ezralow or Huntington Center 18 Associates? 19 A. Not to the best of my knowledge. 20 Q. Let's go back to No. 26, Huntington Center 21 Alternative Project Comparison. We're at Exhibit 3. What 22 is that? 23 A. Without — my recollection is that was comparing 24 the developer's request to financial assistance and their 25 economics to the other alternatives we have as far as how 75 1 to approach that. 2 Q. When you say ."alternative project comparison," 3 does that mean other ideas? 4 A. No, it's just we didn't agree with the 5 developer's assessment of the economics, so our alternative 6 was different than that. Anticipating your question, it 7 wasn't specifically based on whether a tenant was in or a 8 tenant was not in. 9 Q. Okay. The next item, "Estimated Development 10 Costs," that's prepared by Ezralow? 11 A. Uh-huh: 12 Q. What does that mean? 13 A. Then they just took X number of square footage, 14 looked up what the cost of the construction would be and 15 what the revenues would be, and that's how we looked at 16 whether or not there would be a gap. 17 Q. Were you ever in attendance at a meeting with 18 attorneys from Kane, Balhner and attorneys from Whitman -- 19 Whitman, Breed -- whatever. 20 MR. TUCHMAN: I'm sorry. What are they called? 21 MR. SHIPOW: Whitman, Breed, Abbott & Morgan. 22 THE WITNESS: Ever? 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 24 Q. Yes. 25 A.. Yes. 76 19 (Pages 73 to 76) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Q. How many times? 1 2 A. To the best of my recollection, that was maybe 2 3 six times 3 4 Q. Did you ever have a meeting at Whitman's office? 4 5 A. Not to the best of my recollection. I don't know 5 6 where their office 1% 6 7 Q. Did you ever have a meeting at Kane's office? 7 8 A. I was here yesterday for a deposition that didn't 8 9 take place. I was up here yesterday. 9 10 MR. TEPPER: Thank you. 10 11 THE WITNESS: Sorry. I don't mean to rip scabs 11 12 off. 12 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 14 Q. Now, this "Property Tax Revenue Projections," I'm 14 15 looking at Item 24, what is that? 15 16 A. That's just projecting out property tax revenue, 16 17 I imagine, for future for Huntington Center, assuming they 17 18 spent X amount of dollars out of the gate, what would 18 19 happen with escalating value over time. 19 20 Q. Who is Mt. Holly Partners? It's on 24. You're 20 21 right. 21 22 A. You know, I don't recall. 22 23 Q. Who hired Mt. Holly, H-o-I-1-y, Partners? 23 24 A. I don't recall. 24 25 Q. Let's take a look at the top entry on page 2 of 25 77 1 Exhibit 3, "10/25/99: Memo, Evaluation of Revised Ezralow I 1 2 Submittal." What is that? 2 3 A. I think that was their response to Jim Cushman of 3 4 some of their costs and revenue assumptions 4 5 Q. Is there any financial information contained in 5 6 "Memo: Evaluation of Revised Ezralow Submittal"? 6 7 A. I believe so, yes 7 8 Q. Let's move to the next page. Okay. "10/26/99, 8 9 Estimated Development Costs, Ezralow," what is that? 9 10 A. Again, I think that's their developer Pro Forma 10 11 that outlines their estimated development costs, as it 11 12 says 12 13 Q. And then No. 21, "Request for Closed Session." 13 14 You requested a closed session on 11/08/99? 14 15 A. That would either be the date of the memo 15 16 requesting the closed session or -- probably, I don't 16 17 recall. That may be a Monday, but -- 17 18 Q. November 8 is a.Monday. Okay. And do you recall 18 19 why you requested this closed session? 19 20 A. At that point in time we were still having 20 21 discussions about whether or not the Agency wished to 21 22 pursue alternatives other than Ezralow's purchase of the 22 23 property. 23 24 MR. TUCHMAN: Read that back for me. 24 25 (Whereupon the previous answer was read" 25 78 DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER back by the court reporter as requested.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: . Q. What does that mean? A. At one point in time we were contemplating doing our own request for developer proposals and sort of discouraging Macerich from selling the center. But we would go out, end a developer who would eventually acquire the center if we weren't satisfied with what came out of Macerich. Q. But by this time, you at the Redevelopment Agency and the Economic Development Department of Huntington Beach, you were aware that escrow was open? A. Well, yes, but that doesn't preclude our option prom doing something different. Q. Okay. I'm going to ask the reporter to mark for identification as — by the way, the closed session did occur, correct? A. I don't recall. I'd have to go back and check. They don't always occur, even though we ask for them. Q. Sometimes a request is denied? A. No, sometimes we're not ready to go at that particular meeting. Q. Okay. Did Ezralow ever say to you — Ezralow or Huntington Center Associates, "We're not going to buy this " property unless you commit to certain promises to us"? 79 A. No, not to the best of my recollection. Q. Were you aware when escrow closed? A. Yes Q. When did it close? A. I beeeve in December of '99 or the end of November. Q. Are you aware that there was a closed session the night before escrow closed? A. There may have been. Q. Do you know why the timing of that was like that? A. Probably just coincidental. Q. Just coincidental, you say? A. Uh-huh. Q. Is that a "yes"? A. Yes Q. Okay. Let's take a look at Exhibit 6. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 6 was marked for identification by the court reporter and.is attached hereto.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. It's page 2 of Council Agency Minutes, 11/15/99. I want you to take a look, please, at Redevelopment Agency, closed session. It says, "Redevelopment Agency pursuant to Government Code Section 54956.8 to give instructions to the Agency's negotiators, Melanie Fallon, David Biggs, 80 _t 20 (Pages 77 to 80) " 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER i Ray Silver, Jim Rabe, Murray Kane, and regarding 2 negotiations Bryan Ezralow and Doug Gray concerning the 3 purchase/sale/or lease of the property located at 4 7777 Edinger Avenue. Subject: Negotiation for terms of a 5 proposed Purchase, Sale, or lease of property at 6 7777 Edinger." 7 Do you see that entry? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. Did that meeting occur? 10 A. I don't recall. 11 Q. Okay. Were the persons present at that meeting, 12 do you know? 13 A. I believe -- 14 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculations. 15 He said he doesn't know if the meeting took place with -- 16 THE WITNESS: Well, actually, now I'm trying to 17 recall. It =- 11115, I imagine it did, and the -- I don't 18 recall the specific topics. I think at that point in time 19 we were looking at their opposed economic as a 20 transaction -- economics of the transaction. And, again, 21 once we realized they were going to buy the center and 22 be -- it seemed that they had something that may make sense 23 economically, when I think the end results of that was 24 putting on hold any of those discussions until we could 25 consider alternative proposals from other owner 81 1 participants. But I think at this point in time, this 2 wasn't -- this didn't have anything to do with the timing 3 of their escrow closing, so it was just a few overall 4 series of meetings where we review with the Agency Board 5 the potential economics of the transaction with Ezralow. 6 And I think it was just a series of in one of those — one 7 of the meetings in that series. 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 Q. Has an estimate been made, dollar amount, as to 10 what it would cost to condemn Burlington's leasehold? l l A. Not that I'm aware oL 12 Q. Has anybody from Ezralow told you — Ezralow or 13 Huntington Associates that they want to get rid of 14 Burlington Coat Factory? 15 A. No, they indicated they'd like to negotiate with 16 Burlington Coat Factory. Exactly -whit that means, I don't 17 know. But we've been encouraging them to, as the developer 18 that was selected to do the comprehensive development of 19 the center, to work with existing tenants and property 20 owners to develop the best property plan they can. And 21 once they've got that in place, we'll discuss what needs to 22 happen after that. 23 So my most recent discussion was that their 24 endeavors to contact the real estate people with Burlington 25 before didn't want to work through Burlington's attorney. 82 I Q. Have you — except for condemnation — you, as 2 the Person Most Knowledgeable for the Redevelopment Agency, 3 besides condemnation, what other avenues could you use to 4 determine that Burlington Coat Factory should not be in the 5 tenant mix at the Huntington Center, which is now referred 6 to as The Crossings? 7 A. I'm uncertain as to your question. 8 Q. What other powers, what other decisions have been 9 contemplated, discussed, or could be used for the 10 Redevelopment Agency to say, "Burlington you're not going 11 to be a tenant at the shopping center"? 12 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Compound. May call for 13 a legal conclusion. 14 THE WITNESS: Well, non -specifically -- I mean, 15 one thing is helping them find another site in the area or 16 in the trade area. I mean, we offer to do that with other 17 existing tenants. You know, it might be a request of 18 financial assistance. I don't know. We've really not had 19 those discussions, but based on my past experience, those 20 are the kinds of things that do occur in situations such as 21 this. 22 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 Q. You haven't — the Economic Development 24 Department nor the Redevelopment Agency have approached 25 Burlington though? 83 1 A. No, not specifically. The owner participation 2 process was awaiting to do so, and really since then 3 Burlington's taken a litigative posture, so that's really 4 precluded.the ability to have those discussions. 5 Q. Are you aware that Burlington Coat Factory 6 discussed a meeting with the City through your offices? 7 MR. TEPPER: Objection as to time. When is that? 8 MR. TUCHMAN: March the loth. 9 THE WITNESS: I don't recall that, but it would 10 have been on the advice of counsel given pending litigation 11 that we may or may not have had the meeting. 12 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 Q. Okay. Let's assume no litigation had been filed 14 when a meeting was requested. Let's assume that for a 15 moment. Was that also on advice of counsel? 16 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. 17 THE WITNESS: I don't know. Matter of fact, 18 we've had meetings recently with Ward's. 19 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 Q. Well, Ion talking about Burlington. Is there any 21 reason that you know of that you didn't want to have a 22 meeting earlier this year in the year 2000, you didn't want 23 to have a meeting with Burlington Coat Factory? 24 A. Not that I can recall 25 Q. So if I told you there was a meeting that was 84 21 (Pages 81 to 84) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 M 1 requested in March of 2000, you wanted to attend? 1 2 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. 2 3 Ambiguous. 3 4 THE WETNESS: You'd have to describe the 4 5 particular circumstances under which the request was made 5 6 and, you know, I don't recall if it was even specifically 6 7 made and who it was made to. 7 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 9 Q. Mr. Duran never discussed that with you? 9 10 A. I don't recall. 10 1 I Q. What does this mean, "subject" -- I'm looking at 11 12 Exhibit 6. "Subject, negotiation for terms proposed 12 13 purchase, sale, or lease of property at 7777 Edinger"? 13 14 A. That's the -- always the site we use we're 14 15 negotiating in owner participation agreement and/or 15 16 decision of development agreement because no matter what 16 17 form it takes, we altimately acquire an interest in real 17 18 estate, even in the minimum covenants regarding the 18 19 property of its use. 19 20 Q. What is this 40050 under, if you know? 20 21 A. That's the City Court's filing system. 21 22 Q. Has anyone ever discussed with you the fact that 22 23 Burlington Coat Factory has additional rights beyond its 23 24 lease at the shopping center, property rights? 24 25 A. When you say "additional rights," you'd have to 25 85 1 describe what you mean by that. 1 2 Q. Recorded interests in the property. 2 3 A. Not that I recall. 3 4 Q. Okay. Now -- 4 5 A. I don't recall -- go ahead. 5 6 Q. That's fine. It says, "Negotiation for terms of 6 7 proposed purchase, sale, or lease." By whom, the City, the 7 8 Development Agency, or a private party? 8 9 A. By the Redevelopment Agency. 9 10 Q. All right. And was a decision ever made to buy 10 11 the Redevelopment Agency to purchase, sale, or lease the 11 12 property? 12 13 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 13 14 testimony. 14 15 THE WETNESS: Well, no, actually, I think you're 15 16 missing the point and this may be the point where I think 16 17 you're as confused by that. 17 18 That does not mean we were discussing -- we use 18 19 that terminology whenever we have something on the agenda 19 20 regarding Redevelopment Agency in regard to owner 20 21 participation developments or participation because it 21 22 would be -- it's really the umbrella under which we do our 22 23 negotiations because we do, at minimum, require covenants 23 24- on an interest in real estate even if we do no other actual 24 25 direct acquisition of any other property interests. So 25 86 DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER you're mischaracterizing reading into what this closed session site might be. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Who is Melanie Fallon? A. She was the Assistant City Administrator. Q. She's no longer with the -- A. No. Q. Okay. Now, where it says, not in capital letters for the first word, "Concerning the purchase/sale/or lease of the property," what's the difference between that reference and the "purchase, sale, or lease" in the bottom sentence? Why is it stated twice? A. I couldn't tell you. That's the way the City Clerk puts it on the agenda. Q. What was the resolution of this closed session? A. I don't recall there being a resolution. Q. Ezralow went and bought it; right? A. They were already scheduled to buy it. I don't think the decision was made on the basis of this closed session. Q. Has the City of Huntington Beach and/or any of its departments and the Redevelopment Agency received any fees of any kind from Ezralow or Huntington Center Associates? MR. TEPPER: Asked and answered. But go ahead. 87 THE WITNESS: The Redevelopment Agency has not. The Planning staff ultimately probably have collected some kind of fees, and they can respond more specifically to that. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Now, the decision to become the applicant, when was that made? A. For which party? Q. For which party? A. Which applicant? MR. TEPPER: Hold it. This is very confusing. Do you have a date, time, and place you're talking about, sir? MR. TUCHMAN: Certainly. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. There's an applicant to redevelop the property; is that right? MR. SHIPOW: Ambiguous. Mischaracterizes the testimony. We're talking about co -applicants? MR. TEPPER: Let's start all over again. THE WITNESS: Okay. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Do you know what an applicant is? A. Yes, I believe so. Q. What's an applicant? 88 22 (Pages 85 to 88) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. It's someone who applies for something. Q. Okay. Now, Ezralow applied for something, didn't it? MR. TEPPER: Objection. Legal relevance. THE WITNESS: I'm sure Ezralow has probably applied for something during the course of their career as a company. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. What have they applied for relative to the Huntington Center? MR. SHIPOW:. I'm going to object as ambiguous as to the use of the phrase "Ezralow." There are various entities that have Ezralow in the name. MR. TEPPER: And I'm unaware, as a legal objection, of the relevance of any application in the redevelopment process. THE WITNESS: They made no application in the redevelopment process. MR. TEPPER: I'm just talking about as a legal matter. I'm just trying to move on to what actually happened here, what could happen. As a legal matter, there is no such word in the redevelopment process. THE WITNESS: True. True. MR. TEPPER: Move on. I don't know where we're headed. I don't mean to be obtuse, but if you're talking 89 about when they applied to be an owner participant or when RFPs were sent out, or things like that, that's what you may be asking. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. In terms of the applicant to develop the property, that is something that Mr. Zelefsky would be better suited to respond to? A. You're talking about an application for? Q. To establish a new specific plan for Huntington Beach Mall. A. Okay. The application for the specific plan, he could do part of that I can answer part of that. Q. Who is the applicant to establish a new specific plan? MR. TEPPER: Are you speaking — MR. SHIPOW: Objection. ?ambiguous to time. - MR. TEPPER: If you're talking about a specific plan, show the witness. Or if you're talking about a generic matter, you can answer. Do you have a question? MR. TUCHMAN: Thank you, Mr. Tepper. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Who is the applicant? MR. TEPPER: Objection. THE WITNESS: For what? 90 1 MR. TEPPER: That's ambiguous. 2 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 3 Q. For the specific plan to develop -- 4 A. The specific plan considered when? 5 Q. Right now, as we sit here today. 6 A. The specific plan that was recently approved? 7 Q. Yes. 8 A. I'm sorry. The applicant was the City and the 9 Redevelopment Agency, ultimately. 10 Q. Was there some other applicant before the City 11 and the Redevelopment Agency? 12 A. I believe so. 13 Q. Who was that? 14 A. I believe it was one of the Ezralow entities 15 together with the Redevelopment Agency. 16 Q. Why was that changed? 17 A. Well, I don't think it was changed. It was just 18 a clarification. The City typically is -- we process 19 specific plans all the time. The City is usually -- 20 actually, the City doesn't usually file an application if 21 it's processing its own specific plan, but the City has a 22 downtown specific plan•or the City was an applicant with 23 multiple property owners. 24 When Macerich filed their application for a 25 specific plan, the Redevelopment Agency together with 91 1 Macerich and the City was the co -applicant. So I think 2 this is, you know, a real -- the City is typically the 3 applicant for a specific plan. 4 Now, sometimes the City, if there is also a 5 private proponent for a specific plan, in order to have 6 that private proponent pay the cost of processing the 7 specific plan, includes him on the application. 8 Q. Okay. Who made the decision to authorize the 9 City and the Redevelopment Agency to become the applicant 10 for the specific plan that has now been approved? 11 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 12 testimony. Argumentative. 13 THE WITNESS: I don'tthink, quote, unquote, 14 there was a "decision." The City usually is the applicant 15 for the specific plan. 16 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 Q. Well, you understand that at some point the 18 applicant, Ezralow or one of its entities, was removed as 19 the applicant; isn't that right? 20 A. No, I don't have that same understanding that you 21 do, no. 22 'Q. Is Ezralow still an applicant on the specific 23 plan? 24 A. I don't know offhand. 25 Q. If I told you they're not, would you be surprised? 23 (Pages 89 to 92) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 A. No, not necessarily. 1 2 Q. Okay. Why is Ezralow -- 2 3 A. I don't think it's material, but that's okay. 3 4 Q. Okay. 4 5 MR. TEPPER: Let him determine what's material. 5 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. Obviously, he determined it 6 7 was material. That was the indication in his earlier 7 8 question. 8 9 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 10 Q. Are you familiar with the decision by Ray Silver 10 I 1 as the City Administrator and the Director of the 11 12 Economic -- Director of the Redevelopment Agency to direct 12 13 Mr. Zelefsky to change the applicant on the application to 13 14 establish a new Specific Plan No. 13? 14 15 A. I don't think he directed him to change it. Yes, 15 16 I'm familiar with it. I think all he did was send a memo 16 17 clarifying the status of the Agency and the City as an 17 18 applicant. 18 19 Q. Was there any discussion regarding that memo? 19 20 A. Yes, there was some level of discussion regarding 20 21 the memo. 21 22 Q. Did you participate in that discussion? 22 23 A. Yes, some of the discussion. 23 24 Q. Who was present? 24 25 A. I don't recall. 25 93 1 Q. What was stated in that discussion? 1 2 MR. TEPPER: Hold it. There may be an 2 3 attorney/client privilege I wish to interject at this 3 4 point, if there were any attorneys present. 4 5 THE WITNESS: I don't remember because part of it 5 6 would have been some discussions with Murray Kane of Kane,' 6 7 Ballmer. Part of it would have been — I talked with Ray 7 8 about it briefly in passing. Part of the discussion was 8 9 with Howard Zelefsky, the Planning Director, but this was 9 10 sort of a series of passing conversations during this point 10 11 in time. 11 12 BY MR. TUCUMAN: 12 13 Q. You said "Ray." Ray who? 13 14 A. Ray Silver. 14 15 Q. And Howard Zelefsky. Whardid Ray say about 15 16 this?" 16 17 A. I don't recall Ray saying very mach about It 17 18 because, again, in our mind, it was just clarifying that 18 19 the City — City is typically considered an applicant for 19 20 specific plans, and the Redevelopment Agency, in fact, had 20 21 been one of the original applicants for the specific plan 21 22 when Macerich filed. 22 23 Q. Now, Mr. Biggs, you were aware at the time this 23 2+ decision was made to change the applicant — 24 25 A. There was no change to the application, so I 25 94 DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER don't characterize it like that. MR. TEPPER: Hold on. Let him finish, please. THE WITNESS: Okay. Thanks. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You were aware at the time the applicant was changed to the City of Huntington Beach and the Redevelopment Agency that there was a pending application for a temporary restraining order brought by Burlington against Ezralow, were you not? A. Yes, I was. MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the testimony that the applicant was changed. THE WITNESS: Well, which is true, but go ahead. BY MR. TUCUMAN: Q. And am I correct that the fact that notice was given of the ex-parte application for a temporary restraining order on June 1 is what triggered the change in the applicant to the City of Huntington Beach and the Redevelopment Agency from Ezralow or one of the Ezralow entities? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative, and also mischaracterizes the testimony that there was any change of the applicant. I'm sorry. I need to get my objection in. THE WITNESS: That's fine. No, what iftiggered was a memo clarifying that in order not to delay the City a 95 best interest in seeing the specific plan considered and approved. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Did Ezralow or any of its related entities withdraw its name as the applicant for the establishment of the new Specific Plan No. 13 for the Huntington Beach Mall, The Crossings? A. I don't have specific knowledge of that. Q. Is that necessary? A. I don't know. That would be a question to ask the Planning Director. Q. Okay. We will. Now, in the discussions that you had regarding the change of.the applicant, did you discuss that on Friday, June 2, with Mr. Kane? MR. TEPPER: Objection. MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the testimony that there was a change of applicant. THE WITNESS: [ don'trecall specific dates. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. How many conversations did you have with Mr. Murray Kane and Mr. -- or anybody from Mr. Kane's office prior to the application being changed? MR. SHIPOW: Same objections. THE WITNESS: I don'trecall. 96 - i 24 (Pages 93 to 96) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00� BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 9 t0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 BY MR TUCIIMAN: Q. Was it more than one? A. Not necessarily, no. I don't recall. Q. Was the memo that was prepared by Silver back -dated? A. I don't know. Q. Would that be surprising to you if it was back -dated? A. I don't believe it would be back -dated, but I have no knowledge whether it was or not. Q. Did anybody ever tell you it was back -dated? A. No. Q. Did you receive a copy of the memo? A. Yes. MR. TUCBMAN: All right. I'm going to ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 7, this is a copy of the memo -- I have to make an extra copy of this. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 7 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. All right. Do you recognize Exhibit 7? A. Yes. Q. All right. What is Exhibit 7? A. It's a memo to the Planning Director kom 97 Ray Silver, the City.Administrator and the Executive Director of the Redevelopment Agency. Q. When is the first time you saw this memo? A. I don't recall. Q. You received a CC of it; right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you see this fax legend at the top, City of Huntington Beach, Community Development Department? A. Uh-huh. Q "Yes"? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And that's your fax number, (714)374-1540? A. No. Q. Whose fax number is that? A. That's the Planning Department's fax number. Q And do you know why this was faxed on June 7th at 1:41"p m.? A. No idea: 20 Q. Did you type this memo up? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Who typed this memo up? 23 A. I don't know. 24 Q. Do you know what department this came from? 25 A. No, I don't. 98 1 Q. Did you ever discuss this memo, Exhibit 7, 2 before it was prepared? 3 A. Yes, I had some discussions about it. 4 Q. Okay. And did you discuss the fact that this 5 memo, Exhibit 7, was created to defeat the temporary 6 restraining order pending against Ezralow and Huntington 7 Center Associates? 8 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. 9 THE WITNESS: We discussed the fact that this 10 memo would help ensure the City could consider its specific 11 plan in a timely manner. 12 MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back. 13 (Whereupon the previous question was read 14 back by the court reporter as requested.) 15 THE WITNESS: I answered it. 16 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 Q. Okay. I want an answer to that question. 18 A. I believe I answered your question. 19 Q. No, you did not. It's a "yes" or a "no," and 1 20 want an answer to it. 21 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. He doesn't have to 22 answer it "yes" or "no." He can answer to the best of his 23 ability, which I think he's done. 24 MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question bade 25 (Whereupon the previous question was read 1 back by the court reporter as requested.) 2 MR. SHIPOW: Asked and answered. 3 THE WITNESS: I believe I answered your question. 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 5 Q. You're refusing to answer that question "yes" or 6 "no"? 7 A. I believe I answered the question. 8 Q. Were you aware that this memo — 9 MR. TUCHMAN: And mark that question because 10 well be back to it. 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 12 Q. Were you aware that this memo, Exhibit 7, would 13 be used in the pending litigation, the temporary 14 restraining order litigation, between Ezralow and its 15 related entities and Burlington? 16 A. Yea 17 Q. Were you aware that this memo was created to be 18 used as an exhibit in the litigation pending between 19 Ezralow, the Ezralow entities, and Burlington Coat Factory? 20 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. 21 MR. TEPPER: Assumes facts not in evidence. 22 THE WITNESS: No, I don't recall that 23 specifically. 24 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 25 Q. It says on the first sentence here, "As required 100 25 (Pages 97 to 100) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 by the City of Huntington Beach General Plan, adoption of a I 1 2 Specific Plan is necessary to establish zoning and 2 3 development standards for the 63-acre Huntington Center 3 4 property." 4 5 Was this something new as of June 5th, 2000? 5 6 A. No, that was included in -- the general planning 6 7 was adopted, I believe, in '95 or '%. 7 8 Q. '96. It's old news; right? 8 9 A. Yes. 9 10 Q. Next sentence, "The Specific Plan allows the City 10 11 to establish unique design and architectural guidelines to 11 12 govern future development of the site." 12 13 Again, that was nothing new; correct? 13 14 A. True. True. 14 15 Q. You have a general plan for these five areas and 15 16 then you have a specific plan that you can modify the 16 17 general plan to a certain extent; isn'tthat right? 17 18 A. Would you repeat the question? 18 19 Q. A specific plan is something that you have to 19 20 design or develop one of the five parcels that is in the 20 21 redevelopment zone; isn't that right? 21 22 A. No, not true. 22 23 Q. What's a specific plan? 23 24 A. A specific plan is a more detailed plan to hold a 24 25 general zoning that can be applied to a very large 25 101 . DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Southern California Edison Company retains ownership beneath the high tension wires on the north side of the property." True statement; right? A. Yes. Q. "Although an application for a zone change was submitted by Ezralow on March 30, 2000" -- let's stop right there. Exhibit 8 -- A. Actually, I have to take a break real quick. I have to see it I have to do a jury duty, so -- Q. Do you want to take a break? A. Yeah, only because it I do have to be there at 12:30, I'm going to have to go, but they haven't called me yet, so — (A brief recess was taken.) MR. TUCHMAN: Back on the record. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. We were looking at Exhibit 7, and it says, "Although an application" -- MR. SHIPOW: Let him make his notes. THE WITNESS: Sorry, I just want to make sure I don't get called into court by a bailiff saying I should have showed up when I didn't have to. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Are you ready? 103 1 geographic area. For example, we have a downtown specific 1 A. Sure. 2 plan that covers thousands of properties, or actually 2 Q. Okay. It says on Exhibit 7, "Although an 3 higher development standards and zoning regulations. We 3 application for a zone change was submitted by the Ezralow 4 have a specific plan that covers the McDonald's Center 4 Company on March 30th" — I want to show you Exhibit 8 and 5 Business Park as an industrial park, so -- and that was 5 make sure that this is the application that's being 6 done on one property, large property, 63 or so acres owned 6 referred to. And for the record, Exhibit 8 was Item 1. 7 by a single property owner. We have a specific plan that 7 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 8 was marked 8 covers the Holly Seaciiff area that — it has 3,000 8 for identification by the court 9 residential units. It's a higher level of zoning with more 9 reporter and is attached hereto.) 10 specificity. 10 MR. TUCHMAN: By the way, Mr. Tepper, when you I Q. "Adoption of the Specific Plan requires the 11 put Item 1 and you put the different items together, this 12 processing of a zoning map amendment and zoning text 12 was just the designation for the production; am I right? 13 amendment." 13 THE WITNESS: No, I don't think so. 14 That had not been done as of June 5; is that 14 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 15 correct? 15 Q. Okay. Anyway, it was Item 1 of the production. 16 A.. That's what the specific plan does. 16 A. This is the way it comes out of the file. 17 Q. Okay. That was on the agenda; correct? 17 Q. Okay. That's fine. 18 A. That was approved recently by the Council four 18 A. You made a reference to a planting exhibit, 19 weeks ago — three weeks ago. 19 Item 1. 20 Q. Okay. So as of June 5, it hadn't been approved 20 Q. Good. 'Is this a complete copy of the application 21 by the Council? 21 which was submitted by Huntington Center Associates and 22 A. True.. 22 Ezralow on or about March the 30th, 2000? 23 Q. Let's move to the next paragraph. "The Ezralow 23 A. I don't know. This is the first time I recall 24-" Company is the property owner of the majority of the site, 24 seeing it. 25 while Montgomery Ward's owns approximately 13 acres, and 25 Q. Okay. So you've never seen it before? 102 104 _ 26 (Pages 101 to 104) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I don't recall. Q. Okay. That's fine. Incidentally, why did your offices never provide Exhibit 8 to our offices upon our request? A. Because we don't have it. This is a Planning Department document. It couldn't have been in our tiles. Q. So Exhibit 8 didn't come with your files? A. I don't believe so, but I don't recall specifically. Q. Let's go back to Exhibit 7 then. "Although an application for a zone change was submitted by the Ezralow Company on March 30th, 2000, it is more appropriate for the City and the Redevelopment Agency to be designated as actual applicants for the proposal because the Specific Plan is a City -initiated project." Can you explain why it's more appropriate? A. Again, it was just clarifying that's the way we usually approach specific plans. Q. And who made the decision that it was more appropriate? A. Well, I'm sorry. When you say, "Who made the decision it was more appropriate" -- Q. Yes. A. -- well, that's historically the way specific plans have been done in Huntington Beach. 105 Q. Okay. There's a person. Is it Ray Silver, as far as you know, that made the decision it's more appropriate for the City and the Redevelopment Agency to be designated as the actual applicants? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the testimony. Asked and answered. THE WITNESS: I think that question would be better answered by Howard Zelefsky. He's the Planning Director. He would have more experience to explain that. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Then I will. Now, when you were discussing preparation of this memo with Mr. Kane, did you have any conversations with Mr. Shipow? A. I had never met or my office met Mr. Shipow till I met him this morning.. Q. Did you have any discussions -with Hughes prior to Exhibit 7 being generated? A. I don't recall specifically. Q. When you were talking to Mr. Kane or Mr. Tepper, you knew they were talking with Whitman, Random; right? MR. SHIPOW: It's not Whitman, Random. It's Whitman, Breed. It calls for speculation and it may call for attorney/client privilege. MR. TEPPER: Yeah, I think that may call for attomey/client privilege. 106 1 THE WITNESS: And I don't recall specifically. 2 He could have been speaking also with people at Ezralow and 3 the City Attorney's office. I don't recall specifically 4 who he had been speaking with. 5 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 6 Q. What did you know about the litigation that had 7 been going on as of June 1 and 2, Thursday and Friday, 8 2000? 9 A. Basically, I knew there was an endeavor to stop 10 the action that would cause the City to not be able to 11 consider the specific plan, and that was — the City has a 12 keen interest In seeing the specific plan move forward, so 13 ultimately the center can be developed with whatever 14 tenants or users ultimately, and It being incorporated into 15 the center, and that we wanted to ensure that we could 16 proceed with the specific plan because that was in the 17 City's beat interest; 18 Q. You didn't want the TRO to come into effect? 19 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. 20 MR. TEPPER: That's the nature of this -- 21 THE WITNESS: And that was not our decision to 22 make. That was ultimately a Court discussion to make on 23 the facts. Just because the one attorney for the one side 24 doesnI seem to know planning or public law doesn't mean:. 25 that we're to be held responsible for the errors thatmere 107 1 made that required whether the restraining order wasn't 2 granted. 3 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 4 Q. I appreciate your comments, Mr. Biggs. I really 5 do, but let's answer the question. 6 MR. TEPPER: Is there a question pending? 7 MR. TUCHMAN: Yeah. 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 Q. You knew — 10 MR. TEPPER: What is the pending question? 11 (Whereupon the previous question was read . 12 back by the court reporter as requested.) 13 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Same objections that I 14 made before. 15 THE WITNESS: Certainly the City wanted to 16 proceed with its consideration of the specific plan. 17 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 18 Q. And you, at the City, knew that if the TRO was 19 granted, then that would come to a halt? 20 A. Maybe; maybe not, 21 Q. Well, you were concerned it would come to a halt? 22 A. It might delay it for a period of time, yes. 23 Q. And the City didn't want it delayed? 24 A. Certainly. 25 Q. Now, next sentence, "Therefore, this memo and my 108 27 (Pages 105 to 108) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 signature, as City Administrator and Executive Director of 1 2 the Redevelopment Agency of the City of Huntington Beach, 2 3 serve as application authorization for the processing of 3 4 Zoning Map Amendment No. 00-01, Zoning Text Amendment 4 5 No. 00-02 (Specific Plan No. 13}* 5 6 Is this the document whereby the City of 6 7 Huntington Beach and the Redevelopment Agency became the 7 8 applicant? 8 9 A. No. Again, I think we always viewed the City and 9 10 Redevelopment Agency as the applicant. 10 11 Q. Are you the Person Most Knowledgeable of when 11 12 they became the applicant, or would that be Zelefsky or 12 13 Silver? 13 14 A. Zelefsky would be most knowledgeable as to 14 15 whether the City would be used as the applicant. I would 15 16 be the most knowledgeable as to the Redevelopment Agency, 16 17 and the Redevelopment Agency was a co -applicant when 17 18 Macerich submitted their specific plan and ongoing 18 19 processing of that. 19 20 Q. Is it your understanding — I think they're 20 21 called Zs and Os. Do you know what they are? 21 22 A. Zs and Os? 22 23 Q. Zoning and Ordinances. 23 24 A. I don't think we typically refer to it as Zs and 24 25 Os, but that's okay. 25 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q. Was it discussed that this should be put on an agenda? A. Not that I recall. Q. Okay. Well, do you have an opinion on that today? A. That's not the course — normal coarse of business for us, no. Q. Well, you know about a month later on June -- July 5, the City Council voted on this issue retroactively; right? A. Yes, we did. We had that application action, yes. Q. Was that necessary? A. Well, we're in a litigious euvironmeuL Sometimes it doesn't hurt to doable -cross your T's and doable -dot your I's. That's the only reason we did that. Q. And who told you that? A. Pardon? Q. Who told you that? A. Who told me what? MR. TEPPER: I think that would be within the province of attorney/client relationship. THE WITNESS: Beyond that, just in my mind, no one had to tell me that. I don't recall anyone specifically telling me that. That just makes common sense to look out for the City's best interest in everything you 1 Q. Are you familiar with requirements in the Zs and 1 do. 2 Os whereby the City is to be a co -applicant with -- the 2 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 3 Redevelopment Agency and the City to be co -applicants with 3 Q. lid you review a draft of Exhibit 7, which is the 4 the owner/developers? 4 June 5, 2000, memo, before it was sent out? 5 A. Well, the City — you can have an application for 5 A. I don't recall specifically. 6 a specific plan without any ordinances, which is what we're 6 Q. Were you aware that the June 5, 2000, metro would 7 doing for the Edinger Corridor area. 7 be used in the litigation? 8. MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back, please. 8 A. I'm trying to recollect if that was — I knew 9 (Whereupon the previous question was read 9 there was litigation ongoing. I suppose I assumed it would 10 back by the court reporter as requested.) 10 eventually be provided In relationship to that 11 THE WITNESS: My understanding is that's not the 11 Q. And it would be provided to Ezralow? 12 requirement. 12 A. I'm sorry? 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 Q. And that it would be provided to Ezralow? 14 Q. Do you know if it was discussed as to whether 14 A. Or it could have been provided to you. We've 15 there was a hearing whether this should be properly noticed 15 been providing numerous documents through discovery from 16 whether they should become an applicant? 16 Lord knows when. 17 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative to the 17 Q. That was a long process. Okay. Do you know why 18 extent that it suggests that this was improper. 18 this memo was CCed to you, Exhibit 7, the June 2000 memo? 19 MR. TUCHMAN: He can answer the question. 19 A. Because I'm the day -today administrator of the 20 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. 20 Redevelopment Agency. 21 MR. TUCHMAN: Withdraw the question. 21 Q. And do you know why this memo was CCed to 22 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 22 Gus Duran? 23 Q. Was it discussed with anyone that this should be 23 A. Because he's the staff person I've principally 24- subject of a motion? ' 24 assigned to this. 25 A. Not that I recall. 25 Q. Okay. And have you had any conversations — 28 (Pages 109 to 112) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00, BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 after this memo did you have a conversation with 2 Gerald Chapman? 3 A. Well, I talk to Jerry quite regularly. 4 Specifically in relationship to this, I don't recall. I'm 5 trying to remember. No, I don't recall specifically, no. 6 Q. You don't recall any conversations? 7 A. Well, I talk with Jerry quite a bit. I don't 8 recall, you know, if he —1 don't recall when and if 1 9 discussed this specifically with him. 10 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Chapman that this memo, 11 Exhibit 7, was back -dated? 12 A. No, I wasn't aware it was back -dated. And when 13 you say "back -dated," what do you mean by that? In your 14 mind, how are you defining "back -dated"? 15 Q. Let me explain something to you. It says 16 June 5th, 2000, on there; right? Well, "back -dated" means 17 it was written sometime after and dated back to June 5. 18 A. I don't know that to be the case, so — 19 Q. Okay. Did you have that conversation with 20 Mr. Chapman at the end of the second week of June, 2000? 21 A. Not that I recall. 22 Q. Did you discuss the legalities of Exhibit 7 with 23 Mr. Chapman? 24 A. Yeah, I can't recall if it was with Mr. Chapman 25 or one of the Planning staff who was discussing it with 113 done and whether, you know — how this generally fits in how we do things. Actually, I don't recall any discussions with Mr. Howard prior to this coming through. Q. Did Mr. Zelefsky tell you he is now named as a defendant in the suit? A. Well, I've seen the Subpoena, so that's fine. We're all — it's in our capacity as in our jobs. To be named in litigation is nothing new. It doesn't cause any 9 concern. 10 Q. I understand it's nothing new. Have you 11 discussed Exhibit 7 with Mr. Silver? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And what did Mr. Silver say about Exhibit 7, 14 which is the June 5, 2000, memo? 15 A. He just wanted to -well, one of the things was 16 the action that we put on the subsequent agenda of the 17 suited plan wasn't approved, was the ratification of his 18 memo. That was probably the main discussion we had about 19 it. 20 Q. Was he worried about it? 21 A. Was he worried about it? 22 Q. Yeah. 23 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. 24 THE WITNESS: Well, you're going to be talking. 25 with him tomorrow. I think he wanted to make sure that we 1 Mr. Chapman. 1 2 Q. When one of the Planning staff was discussing it 2 3 with Mr. Chapman? 3 4 A. I don't know. Again, this would be -- firsthand; 4 5 I don't know. You know, I've discussed this — this memo 5 6 and the general approach in how the City also approaches 6 7 specific City plan applications when this was coming up, 7 8 and we were discussing it. I talked about it with 8 9 Howard Zelefsky. I believe I talked with Jane James about 9 10 it and Herb Fauland. They appear to be the primary 10 11 liaisons of the Planning Commission, so I don't know if 11 12 they spoke with Mr. Chapman about that. Or I may have 12 13 spoken with Mr. Chapman myself, but I speak with hundreds 13 14 of people on a day -today basis about different projects. 14 15 Q. Did Zelefsky tell you he had reservations about 15 16 this memo? -- 16 17 A. Ns. My recollection is he didn't think it was 17 18 necessary because the standard course is the City's view is 18 19 the applicant for the specific plan. 19 20 Q. What else did you talk about with Mr. Zelefsky, 20 21 Mr. Biggs? 21 22 A. In the course of five years of employment? 22 23 Q. We're talking about Exhibit 7. Thank you. 23 24 A. Howard and I actually have had most of our 24 25 discussions about it, sort of, you know, after this was 25 114 115 were in the best position legally because of the litigious environment that we find ourselves in. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. And he wanted to make sure that the City and the Redevelopment Agency double-crossed the I's and double-crossed the T's; right? THE WITNESS: Well, whatever I said. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. All right. Now, did you have — A. The best defense is a good offense, so — Q. Okay. The City wants to go on the offense, that's okay. A. Well, when you're being -- when someone decides to pursue litigation, which wasn't of our choosing, then, of course, we have to respond in a like way. Q. And you want to make sure that you protect the project? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. THE WITNESS: We want to make sure that -- the community has been waiting for 10 to 15 years for revitalization of Huntington Center. We want to make sure the project moves forward in the most expeditious manner to accomplish our goals in the area. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. And you'll do what it takes to get that done? 116 29 (Pages 113 to 116) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 r- 1 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. 1 2 THE WITNESS: Well do what it takes within our 2 3 legal rights and what it takes within public policies we're 3 4 legally prescribed to follow. 4 5 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 5 6 Q. And was it the City's intent as of June 5, 2000, 6 7 to assist Ezralow in its litigation against Burlington Coat 7 8 Factory? 8 9 A. No. The City's intent was to ensure that we 9 10 could proceed with the consideration and approval of the 10 I 1 specific plan. 11 12 Q. Okay. I want to go back to Exhibit 3, which is 12 13 the privileged log. We have a 12113/99, No. 20, "Fax: Term 13 14 Sheet of Ezralow Proposal." Can you briefly tell me what 14 15 that is? 15 16 A. That's an outline of Ezralow's request for 16 17 financial assistance. 17 18 Q. And the 12/13 fax was a follow-up to that. What 18 19 is No. 19? 19 20 A. I'd have to go back and double check. 20 21 Q. Has there been a financial deal signed between 21 22 the City, the Redevelopment Agency — or the Redevelopment 22 23 Agency, and Ezralow? 23 24 A. No. 24 25 Q. What does this "financial deal" mean? 25 117 1 A. Well, they submitted a financial Pro Forma of the 1 2 project and gave as an indication of some level of 2 3 assistance that they would like, and this was just outlined 3 4 in that. 4 5 Q. Nothing has been agreed to with Ezralow between 5 6 the City? 6 7 A. No, nothing is agreed to until an OPA is approved 7 8 with a public hearing. 8 9 Q. Who are the principal negotiators of the OPA on 9 10 behalf of the City and the Redevelopment Agency? 10 t 1 A. Myself, Kane, and Jim Rabe. 11 12 Q. And who on behalf of Ezralow? 12 13 A. Bryan Ezralow, Doug Gray, and Jim Hughes. 13 14 Q. Okay. What is this fax, "Mt. Holly Partners 14 15 Ezralow, Proposal Pro Forma." Do you know what that is? 15 16 A. It's a Pro Forma. Actually, Mark Picket is 16 17 another consultant they're using. Maybe his firm is called 17 18 Mt. Holly Partners. I just recognize Mark's name, 18 19 financial consultants. 19 20 Q. Picket is P-i-c-k-e-I. 20 21 A. "Picket" 21 22 Q. I'm sorry, what? 22 23 A. "Pickel." 23 24 Q. Okay. Pickel. No. 17, "Public Revenue 24 25 Projections." Those are -- what is that? 25 118 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. Based on gross development square footage that they contemplated, Jim Rabe did projections of sales tax and property tax. Q. The next two items, 15 and 16, which deal with Macerich, why were those dated in December of 1999? 1 thought they had sold the property by then. A. They had We were -- my recollection is we were just refreshing Council's memory as to the terms that Macerich had requested for comparison with Ezralow. It might have been dated that day, but they were probably copies of documents from '98 and earlier '99. Q. The Items 13 and 14 from James Rabe at Keyser Marston, again, these are projections based on the proposals made by Ezralow? A. Yes, and our own analysis of those. Q. Okay. No. 12, what does that mean, 1/27/2000, "Proposed Participation," author, David Biggs? A. My recollection Is that we outlined for the Agency Board, an upside participation torn, and that might be contingent if we were to provide financial system, Le- if the property was more succeed l and the gap really didn't materialize, then we wanted an upside participation from the developer. Q. Was the proposed participation that you developed ever finalized? 119 A. No. No terms have been finalized. Q. Next, 2/13/2000, "Notes for Executive Session, sent by Murray Kane to David Biggs." How long was that document? A. What was the number you're referring to? Q. No. 11, please. A. I don't recall, Q. When was that executive session? A. I don't recall. Q. Do you know what the purpose of that executive session was? A. No, not without going back and looking at my notes and the outline we used. Q. Why does Murray Kane communicate with you as opposed to someone else? A. Why does he communicate with me? Q. Correct. A. As opposed -- who else do you think he should be communicating with? Q. Maybe the City Administrator, maybe Duran, maybe the Mayor. A. No, because this is my primary responsibility. I'm the lead negotiator from the City's perspective. So Murray and Jim Rabe assist me in that regard. Q. Okay. So it's fair to say you`re the general 120 30 (Pages 117 to 120) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 contact person that Mr. [Cane deals with? A- Yes, generally. You know, sometimes Gus on certain items, not usually Mr. Silver. Q. Were you kept updated by Mr. Kane on the litigation pending between Ezralow and Burlington relative to the Petition to Compel Arbitration? MR. TEPPER: Objection. Calls for attorney/client communication. THE WITNESS: We discussed it in general, but also Mr. Gray gave me regular updates on it. I speak to him once or twice a week. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. And do you know what happened to the Petition to Compel Arbitration? A. No, I don't know specifically. I thought it was put on hold or something. I don't know the — if it was disposed oL Q. Okay. Now, the next item is — we were looking at 11. We're going to 10, "2/13/2000, Fax: Ezralow/City comparison, sent by Murray Kane to David Biggs." What is that? A. If my recollection serves me right, it was just comparing Ezralow's request for financial assistance of what the City had previously offered Macerich. Q. And what is No. 9? 121 A. Probably an update or a version of No. 10, usually multiple iterations of these things which we use in reviews and closed sessions. Q. And No. 8? A. Again, a summary of how we would close the gap. Q. And No. 7? A. I think that was Jim's analysis about — you know, where he agreed and disagreed with the seller on the cost and revenues. Q. And that's cost of construction, cost of fees, and the revenues would be generated from certain tenants? A. Well, tenants in general They're not identified. They're just million square feet at average rents discussed. Q. What were the average rents discussed? A. I don't recall. — Q. Were they discussed on a square footage basis, cost per square footage basis? A. I'd have to go back and look and see if there was a breakdown as far as rents on a space -by -space basis,, but, you know, we look at the overall number at the bottom line because it will vary from tenant to tenant. Some rents will pay higher than the average users; some tenants will pay lower. Q. Did you ever have a discussion with anyone as to 122 1 why a specific plan, first it was 12 and then it was 13, 2 had two different charts? There was A and there was B? 3 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous. 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 5 Q. You can answer. 6 A. Well, no, I don't understand the question. 7 Q. Well, you know what SP-12 is; right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What is SP-12? 10 A. That's a specific plan that's being considered 11 for the mall, for Hantingtom 12 Q. Do you know what SP-13 is? 13 A. Well, actually, I don't — what are you -- no, 14 it's one of the two. It's either Specific Plan 12 or 15 Specific Plan 11. I don't know which number is the current 16 one. 17 Q. Did you ever discuss the fact that the SPs that 18 were submitted had variations in them, one variation that 19 included Burlington, and one variation that clearly 20 excluded Burlington? 21 A. Well, no, I don't agree it excluded Burlington. 22 It just didn't include Burlington in its current 23 configuration. 24 Q. Did you ever have a discussion with anyone that, 25 the configurations that were suggested where Burlington was 123 1 included and where it was excluded — or whether its 2 current form was excluded was interpreted as excluding 3 Burlington? 4 A. Yes. As a matter of fact, it was discussed that 5 Burlington can go to any other number of areas by 6 consolidating space and maybe going to a second story. 7 Q. When was that discussed? 8 A. As recently as when the specific plan was being 9 considered before the Council I think as I've seen you 10 make your plans, I think you've read way too mach into 11 those illustrative charts that are there. The specific 12 plan does not preclude any particular users, nor does it 13 mandate any particular users. 14 Q. Did you have any conversations with Mr. Tom 15 Livengood regarding that and whether I or anyone are 16 reading too much into that? 17 A. No, I don't recall speaking with Tom about that. 18 Q. Okay. Did you read his memo dated June 22? 19 A. Not at the time, but I've seen it subsequent to 20 that. 21 Q. Do you have any comments on that? 22 A. Pardon? 23 Q. Do you have any comments on that, any reaction to 24 it? 25 A. I think Mr. Uvengood is mistaken in his 124 31 (Pages 121 to 124) JILIO 0 ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 i understanding, but — 1 2 Q. Okay. All right. Anybody else that's mistaken 2 3 in their understanding that's working at the City that has 3 4 brought this to your attention? 4 5 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. 5 6 THE WITNESS: He didn't work for the City. He's 6 7 a Planning Commissioner. So he's not a professional 7 8 planner by trade and really wouldn't be qualified as an 8 9 expert or someone who could comment on the planning 9 10 approach, whether it was appropriate or not. 10 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 11 12 Q. Okay. Let's look at No. 6 on Exhibit 3. It 12 13 says, "Undated, Discussion of Alternatives." How many 13 14 pages is that? 14 15 A. I don't r ecaD. 15 16 Q. What does that mean, "Discussion of 16 17 alternatives"? 17 18 A. We would have been looking at financial 18 19 alternatives. 19 20 Q. It didn't have anything to do with Burlington? 20 21 A. No. 21 22 Q. No. 5, "Undated, Ezralow/Macerich Proposal 22 23 Comparison," what is that? 23 24 A. Same thing, an undated — comparing Ezralow's 24 25 request for what Macerich had asked for. 25 125 1 DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER either. There's just a gap. You look at cost, subtract what revenue will support it, you come up with a gap. That's the level of specificity we use to deal with. Q. You'll have to sell that to the City Council? A. We do that with every transaction, every time we enter into any owner participation or DDA. We've done that for the Hilton. We've done that for the project downtown. We've done that for Plaza Maria This is the way development agencies do business. Q. It says the name Rebecca Casey. She's from Saybrook? A. Saybrook. Q. There's another name there, R-i-e-d-1. A. She got married -= Q. Let's move on. There were three items. A. — during the interviewing period. Q. Okay. A. I'll pass on your best wishes. Q. The first three items all deal with July 5, 2000. One is a closed session outline. What did that have to address? What did that deal with? A. That's just where we put up the things we want to update the Council on as far as our negotiations with the developer and what our open points are. Q. And in that, there was a discussion to sue 127 1 Q. Okay. Next -- actually, I want you to take a 1 Burlington? 2 - look at all of Exhibit 3. Do any of the documents 2 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for confidential 3 contained on Exhibit 3 refer in any way to Burlington Coat 3 information. 4 Factory? 4 THE WITNESS: No, there was a separate closed 5 A. I don't believe so, no. We never analyzed the 5 session item and a recent closed session. That would have 6 project on the basis of the specific tenants. 6 been — it wouldn't have been the most recent one — 7 Q. Now, No. 4, "Undated, True Interest Cost 7 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 Calculation," what is that? 8 Q. 17th? 9 A. That has to do with a particular business term as 9 A. — to gain access to the building for purposes of 10 to if we use bond financing for the project, how do we 10 the appraisal, and that was approved at the last Council 11 calculate true interest costs, what costs are allowed in I meeting, but that was a separately noticed closed session 12 that calculation. It's a deal point we're discussing with 12 specifically on that litigation in order to allow our 13 the developer. 13 appraiser to gain access to the building. 14 Q. I think you mentioned — what size bond do you 14 Q. And has that been filed? 15 think would be necessary? — 15 A. I don't know. 16 A. I don't know at this point in time. 16 Q. And do you know when that will be filed? 17 Q. Was the amount $300,000 ever discussed? 17 A. No, I don't.. 18 A. 300,000? 18 Q. Now, what was the purpose of this closed session 19 Q. Yeah. 19 on 7/5? 20 A. Oh, no, it would have to be much more than that 20 A. We're in negotiations with the developer pursuant 21 Q. Was the amount $300 million ever discussed? 21 to the direction of the Agency Board provided to negotiate 22 A. It's anticipated that the financials of this 22 terms of the participation agreement. And when we're doing 23 project will be well in excess of $10 million, so there's 23 that, we're quite often back for two weeks getting 24_ been no amounts in that range ever discussed, and they 24 direction as far as deal points. 25 haven't been discussed based on any particular use of funds 25 Q. So how far along is the progress? How is it 126 1 128 32 (Pages 125 to 128) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.04Y BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 going? A. I expect we'll have the DDA, as I indicated, in the early && Q. Okay. An OPA or a DDA? A. OPA, probably, in this instance. Q. And what's a DDA? A. DDA is usually with the developer that doesn't own or have a property interest, basically the same contract. One's an owner participation agreement; the other is a disposition of development agreement. Q. One of the Ezralow entities would be -- I guess Huntington Center Associates would be a DDA? A. No, it would be an OPA. They own the majority of the site. Q. Okay. Now, this "Closed Session History," what 16 is that? 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1t 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Just reminded them of the different closed sessions, how we got to where we were at this point. Q. And then the next is "Public Assistance Proposal Summary," what is that? A. Just an update of the proposed deal terms we're negotiating with the developer. Q. Okay. Are you aware of other documents that are responsive to our Subpoenas to you, which are Exhibits 1 and 2, that have not been provided to us in your production 129 or identified in your privileged log? A. No. To the best of my knowledge, this included everything we have in our files in Economic Development. Q. And Economic Development only; is that right? A. Right, yea Q. So III ask the other people about the other departments. A. Right, Planning would have more documents relating to specific planning or applications. Q. Does the Redevelopment Agency have -- who are their administrators? Is it the EDD? A. Yes, my department is where the day -today administrator of the Redevelopment Agency is. Q. Now, Mr. Silver, does he have an office -- what floor are you, the 5th floor? A. 5th floor. Q:' Do you have an office on the 5th floor? A. No, his office is on the 4th floor. Q.. And he essentially wears two hats at the City? A. Yes. Q. And does he have separate files from you for the EDD relative to the Redevelopment Agency? A. I don't think he keeps separate files from as, but I don't know that. You'll have to ask him that. Q. Are you aware he has a separate drawer or files 130 1 pertaining to the Redevelopment Agency activities? 2 A. I don't believe be does, but I don't know 3 firsthand. 4 Q. Are you aware of anyone else other than your EDD 5 Department as well as Mr. Silver — who well ask later -- 6 who will have documents responsive to Exhibits 1 and 2? 7 A. No, I don't believe —you know, if you ask the 8 Planning Department, they would have all the documents 9 related to the specific plan. Some of the department's 10 screening projects, like Public W irks, would have copies of 11 things that the Planning Department might have, but 12 Planning should have everything. They're the comprehensive 13 keeper of those ores. So there might be a Public Works 14 person that's reviewing the project from the specific plan 15 perspective, but everything that they are using is — 16 should be also in the possession of the Planning 17 Department. 18 Q. Are you aware of the person's name Alia, A-l-i-a; 19 Hokuki, H-o-k-u-k-i? 20 A. Doesn't ring a bell. 21 Q. Are you aware of a person named Jon, J-o-n; 22 Veregge, V-e-r-e-g-g-e? 23 A. Doesn't ring a bell either. 24 Q. Are you aware of any meetings that took places 25 between the Planning Department and Scott Dinovitz in 131 1 January of 2000? 2 A. AD I know is that the Planning Department meets 3 regularly with Scott and some of their consultants. That's 4 the role of the Planning Department in processing projects 5 through the entitlement system. Sometimes we attend those 6 meetings; sometimes we don't. If anyone is going to those 7 meetings, if they were Planning meetings, Gas would be 8 attending those. 9 Q. Gus Duran; is that right?, 10 A. Yea 11 Q. Who Jayna, J-a-y-n-a; Morgan, M-o-r-g-a-n? 12 A. She's with EDAW. They're a consulting firm that 13 I think prepared the draft for this particular plan. 14 Q. Are you familiar with who Greenberg Farrow is? 15 A. They're some kind of consultant, traffic or 16 architecture. I don't recall specifically. 17 Q. Do you know who Keil, K-a-i-l; Maberry is, 18 M-a-b-e-r-r-y? 19 & Not offhand. 20 Q. And Dick Bowman, B-o-w-m-a-n? 21 A. No. 22 Q. What about Khara, K-h-a-r-a; Covington; 23 C-o-v-i-n-g-t-o-n? 24 A. Doesn't ring a bell. 25 Q. Okay. Are you aware of Planning Department 132 33 (Pages 129 to 132) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 meetings with Ezralow, and EDAW in December of 1999? 1 2 A. I think I already indicated that Planning would 2 3 be meeting regularly with someone like Ezralow who is 3 4 proposing a project in town. Exactly when those meetings 4 5 were and who was in attendance, since I don't normally 5 6 attend them, I don't know when they might have occurred or 6 7 who was there. 7 8 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. I'm going to ask the 8 9 reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit -- 9 l0 THE WITNESS: Can I take a break for the 10 11 restroom, please? 11 12 MR. TUCHMAN: Yeah. Sure. 12 13 (A brief recess was taken.) 13 14 MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to ask the reporter to 14 15 mark for identification as Exhibit 9, this is a letter 15 16 dated March 3, 2000, from the City of Huntington Beach to 16 17 Burlington. 17 18 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 9 was marked 18 19 for identification by the court 19 20 reporter and is attached hereto.) 20 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 21 22 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 9? 22 23 A. Yes. 23 24 Q. And did you cause Exhibit 9 to be sent out on or 24 25 about March 3, 2000? 25 133 1 A. Yes. 1 2 Q. Okay. And you sent this to Burlington Coat 2 3 - -Factory; right? 3 4 A. Amongst others, yes. 4 5 Q. You sent this letter addressed to Burlington to 5 6 others? 6 7 A. We sent the same letter to other possible owner 7 8 participants in the site.. 8 9 Q. Okay. So what you're saying is that you didn't 9 10 send the original of Exhibit 9 to everybody, but something 10 11 like Exhibit 9 to other people? 11 12 A. We sent — yes. 12 13 Q. Okay. And who else did you send something like 13 14 Exhibit 9 to? 14 15 A. It would have gone to Ward's, Mervyn's. I'd have 15 16 to get an exact Ifst, but SCE, and others who had a longer 16 17 term leasehold interest. 17 18 Q. What was the response of Mervyn's? 18 19 A. I don't think Mervyn's submitted a response. 19 20 Q. Okay. Do you know why? 20 21 A. No, I've not had any discussions with them. 21 22 Q. Did you receive a response from Montgomery 22 23 Ward's? 23 24. A. Yes, we did. 24 25 Q. And what was their response? 25 134 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. Well, they responded with some materials requested to the proposal, in the RFP. Q. And you received a response from Ezralow? A. Yes, we did. Q. Okay. And you received a response from Burlington Coat Factory? A. Yes, we did. Q. And when you received the responses, you received them from also Southern California Edison? A. No, I don't believe they responded. Q. So you sent out five and received three? A. I don't recall exactly how many we sent out. It was just an illustrative list, and I think we did receive three responses back. Q. In addition to receiving the three responses, did you receive the — those were Statements of Interest you received right around April 17th, from the three of them? A. The first step was a Statement of Interest. We did receive those, and I don't recall — I'd have to go back and check whether they all three, again, submitted the more detailed proposal. Q. You received proposals which were provided by Ezralow, Burlington Coat Factory, and Montgomery Ward's; is that right? A. I believe so. 135 Q. And then the three proposals were compared and a decision was made? A. Yes, by the City Council. Q. Was it ever an option whereby the -- you call it the RFP process? A. This we would refer to as the owner participation process. Q. What's the RFP process? A. An RFP is a more formal process where -- either before or after we do an owner participation, we do a general solicitation of developers. We don't just limit it to owner participants. Q. Has that ever been done in •this case? A. No. Q. Is it ever going to be done? A. No, I wouldn't imagine. Q. If I called this an RFP process, that would be wrong? A. No, I would refer to it as the owner participation solicitation. Q. The Statement of Interest and Request for Proposal for redevelopment which is paragraph 9, was it possible or was it ever an option for the City Council to select the Redevelopment Agency or the City of Huntington Beach to be the one who was going to develop the property? 136 34 (Pages 133 to 136) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00- BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I suppose it could have been an option, but we typic* 2"W have tames that aggressive redevelopment approack - Q. Wby.wt? A. Because we don't have the resources. Q. The City of Huntington Beach and the Redevelopment Agency, they don't build shopping centers; right? A. Well, we've built restaurants, beach concessions. We have built and operated office buildings, so I don't know, maybe — I don't know if it's true whether or not they've built and operated a shopping center. Q. Was it ever your intent — as of March 3, 2000, was it your intent as of then to have the City or Redevelopment Agency build the shopping center? A. -No. Q. Was it the intent of the City of Huntington Beach or the Redevelopment Agency as of March 3, 2000, to finance the building of the shopping center? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous. THE W rNESS: We had anticipated, based on our previous experience, that we would be a financial partner, with whomever redeveloped the department center. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. A financial partner as in terms of the majority 137 one was Ezralow; is that right? A. From our evaluation, yes, given the Agency's stated goal of the comprehensive redevelopment of the center. That wouldn't have precluded Burlington or Ward's — 6 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. 7 THE WITNESS: That would not have precluded 8 either Burlington or Ward's directly partnering with 9 another development entity firm proposing a comprehensive 10 redevelopment of the center itself. 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 12 Q. And the Statement of Interest — and then the 13 proposal submitted around May 2, 2000, consisted Ezralow 14 was by far the most qualified and most able to develop the 15 shopping center? 16 A. And the only one that was responsive to the 17 stated objectives of the comprehensive redevelopment of the 18 center. 19 Q. Okay. Did you know as of May 2, 2000, that 20 Ezralow would be selected as the developer? 21 A. No. 22 Q. When did you first know? 23 A. After the Agency Board made that decision when 24 they considered the three proposals. 25 Q. Okay. Now, is it still possible for additionak 1 of the money coming from the City and the Agency? 1 2 A. No. 2 3 Q. A partner in terms of what percentage of capital 3 4 would you be providing? 4 5 A. Well, it would be the same gap we talked about 5 6 depending on who responded and what was involved There 6 7 would be some type of a gap where we would participate- 7 8 through the sharing of future revenues, future public 8 9 revenues. 9 10 Q. If I were to — if I called you today at the 10 11 Economic Development Department and I told you, "I'm from 11 12 Burlington, and I want to make scut rm in that store," 12 13 what's your response going to be?' 13 14 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Lack of foundation. 14 15 THE WITNESS: Our response would be to contact 15 16 Ezralow and work with them on it -- 16 17 BY MWTUCHMAN: — 17 18 Q. _ So Xwe want to be in that shopping center — if 18 19 Burlington wants to be in the shopping center, we've got to 19 20 talk to Fzrslow; not you? 20 21 A. At this point in time, yes. 21 22 MR. SHIPOW: Same objections. 22 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 24 Q. Okay. Good. The Request for Proposals or the 24 25. Statements of Interest that you got back, the only viable 25 138 139 developers or entities to submit OPAs for parts of the center? A. Not until we've concluded either successfully or unsuccessfully our negotiations with Ezralow. Q. Has Montgomery Ward's suggested an OPA for their 13 acres? A. Yes. Q. And that was rejected? A. No. We selected Ezralow to negotiate exclusively for a period of time: Q. What period of time is that? A. Well, as we talked about, initially 60 days, and then up until we approve an owner participation agreement or it's disapproved or we don't present one. Q. I thought you said you — I did not understand your answer. I thought you said you authorized Ezralow to negotiate with Montgomery Ward's; is that incorrect? A. I didn't say that. Q. I understand that. Now, this letter, did you personally draft Exhibit 99 A. No. Q. Who drafted it? A. I believe it may have been Gas Duran in consultation with our special council, Murray Kane. Q. Okay. And at the time that you wrote to 140 35 (Pages 137 to 140) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Burlington, did you have any idea what the status of 1 least one foot high almost every day. 2 Burlington's lease was?. 2 Q. Now, did you discuss with Mr. Duran the fact that 3 A. No, I don't recall. 3 we wanted to meet with you? 4 Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say that in April of 4 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous as to Who you 5 2000 you learned what the terms of the lease was with 5 mean by "we." 6 Burlington? 6 MR. TUCHMAN: Burlington Coat Factory. 7 A. I've been exposed to that through some of the 7 THE WITNESS: And as of when? 8 litigation that we've been drug into, so I don't recall the 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 specific dates as to when that is. 9 Q. March 6th, 2000. 10 Q. Okay. Now, your position is a hired position; 10 A. You asked me about this the other day. 11 right? It's not elected? 11 Q. I did? 12 A. Right, I'm a hired, appointed staff position. 12 A. I responded. 13 Q. Who hued you? 13 Q. That you weren't aware of it? 14 A. Well, the City Administrator makes 14 A. I don't recall specifically the question. 15 recommendations, and then the City Council approves the 15 MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to ask the reporter to 16 contract 16 mark for identification as Exhibit 10 - let me zip off a 17 Q. And is your contract — what's the term of your 17 couple of copies of that. 18 contract in terms of time? 18 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 10 was marked 19 A. It's open. 19 for identification by the court 20 Q. Okay. And have you performed any written reports 20 reporter and is attached hereto.) 21 or evaluations relative to the Burlington Coat Factory 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: '• 22 action against Ezralow or the Ezralow entities? 22 Q. This is a letter dated March 6th, 2000. It's to 23 A. No. 23 Aviv L Tuchman from Gustavo Duran. 24 Q. Have you seen a report authored by anyone 24 Do you recognize Exhibit 10? 25 pertaining to the Burlington suit against the Ezralow or 25 A. No, not specifically. 141 1 143 I the Ezralow-related entities? 1 Q. Okay. Did you direct Mr. Duran to -- do you 2 A. A report? I've seen some of the filings over' 2 recognize this as your signature? 3 time, but I don't recall seeing a report. 3 A. Yea 4 Q. You were given copies of the Burlington Petition 4 Q. Okay. Was he authorized to sign on behalf of the 5 to Compel Arbitration against Ezralow, were you not? 5 City of Huntington Beach, Department of Economic 6 A. I don't recall specifically that document versus 6 Development, as of March 6th, 2000? 7 any others. 7 A. Well, all my matters are specifically 8 Q. Do you know -- do you keep a separate Burlington 8 authorized. I don't approve everything that goes out. 9 Coat Factory file? 9 Q. My question was: Is he authorized to use the 10 A. Gus keeps the primary files. I keep the closed 10 letterhead, sign letters, and send them out? 11 session files. 11 A. Oh, certainly. Sorry. 12 Q. "I keep the" -- 12 Q. Did you see Exhibit 10 before it went out? 13 A. -- closed session files. 13 A. I don't recall. 14 Q. So it would be fair to say Gus Duran is the 14 Q. Okay. Does this refresh your recollection that 15 person to ask? -- 15 Burlington Coat Factory tried to meet with you? 16 A. To ask about files, yes. 16 A. No. Again, not necessarily. 17 Q. Okay. Do you know if you received any loss -- 17 Q. Okay. 18 any information from any litigation against Ezralow from 18 A. I mean, you know, sometimes I'm out of town. 19 Ezralow or their attorneys prior to June 5th, 2000? 19 Sometimes — but, again, I think earlier on I also 20 A. I don't recall. If you have a specific document 20 commented if we didn't meet with you, it was on the basis 21 for me to look at, I'll be happy -- you know, I get a stack 21 of litigation. 22 of paper three feet high every day across my desk. This is 22 Q. Does it say that in your Exhibit 10? 23 not the only project we're working on. 23 A. Yes, it does. 24. Q. Three feet high, you say? 24 Q. Where does it say that? So you were concerned 25 A. Yeah, that's a bit of an overexaggeration, but at 25 about the litigation/Petition to Compel Arbitration that we 142 1 144 36 (Pages 141 to 144) JILIO. & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25: have? A.. Well, yeas we don't want to become involved as any thilyd party In a tenanvUndlord dispute. Q. Is that a written policy of the City? A. Written policy? Q. Yeah. A. No. It's just a very good one to follow. Q. Was that policy followed in this case? A. Pardon? Q. Was that policy followed in this case? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. Mischaracterizes the testimony. THE WITNESS: I believe we endeavored to. MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 11 a letter dated March 28, 2000, from Mr. Biggs. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 11 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 11? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And did you send Exhibit 11 out in the ordinary course of business on or about March 28, 2000, to Douglas Gray? 145 A. Yes, there was a letter prepared by Gus that I signed. Q. Why did you send this letter? A. Because in order to determine which properties we might have to appraise to conclude our analysis of the potential economics of a transaction involving the mall, we sent the, letter for the reasons it says in the letter. Q. Very good, Mr. Biggs. Did you get the lease of Burlington Coat Factory back in response to Exhibit 11? A. I don't recall. Q. Okay. A. I guess Gus will know. Q. Okay. Well, that's good. Are you familiar with the City of Huntington Beach Planning Department Planning and Zoning Plan Check Form, or is that something that's not in your department? A..- Not in our department. Q.. Good: Project meeting agendas, are those generated by the Economic Development Department or Planning? A. If I can see it, I can tell you which plan — Q. It's Item 5. A. Planning. Q. Thank you. A. I think all the things you're looking at there 146 1 with those cover things look like Planning documents. 2 Q. Okay. If they're Planning, we can generally cut 3 right through them, okay. I did note though that in the 4 Community Redevelopment Department, Development Review 5 Request, this was sent to you. III show you a copy of it. 6 This is Item 6. And III ask the reporter to mark for 7 identification as what? 8 THE REPORTER: 12. 9 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 12 was marked 10 for identification by the court 11 reporter and is attached hereto.) 12 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 Q. And please tell me what Exhibit 12 is. 14 A. Exhibit 12 Is a standard form, which I mentioned 15 earlier on today in my deposition, where the Planning 16 Department circulates project plans, all kinds of 17 development applications to various departments to review 18 and comment. 19 Q. Now, your name is circled, which means you 20 received a copy of it? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Now, I think the last page is your memo 23 responsive to it? 24 A. Yea. 25 Q. Okay. Did you have any other comments responsive 147 1 , to the plan? 2 A. Probably not at this point in time. I think this 3 wasn't the only review that we had. There were ones prior 4 to this. 5 Q. Okay. The last page, that is your writing and 6 that is your memo? 7 A. Yes, that's my signature. I think Gas generated 8 that memo. 9 Q. As of April 11, 2000, did the Economic 10 Development Department state one way or the other its 11 position with respect to Burlington Coat Factory? 12 A. No. Our position remains the same that the 13 specific plan does not mandate nor preclude any particular 14 user in the context of the specific plan, and we're not 15 sufficiently advanced in our evaluation of the project to 16 know which tenants or users make the mix for the proposal 17 that Ezralow is doing. 18 Q. As the Person Most Knowledgeable for the 19 Redevelopment Agency of the City of Huntington Beach and in 20 the capacity as the Director of the Economic Development 21 Department, are you aware that there are certain provisions 22 in the Burlington Coat Factory lease that Ezralow's 23 predecessors require participation in any redevelopment? 24 MR. SHIPOW: Mischaracterizes the document and 25 the document speaks for itself. 148 37 (Pages 145 to 148) JILIO St ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 THE WITNESS: Actually, III leave that up to the 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 attorneys to decide between you two what that means. I 2 Q. Okay. But certainly there is a component which 3 think I've seen that language as well as the language about 3 is for litigation? 4 relocation rights and so, ultimately, hopefully, that will 4 A. Not speciflcaW for this project. We budget an 5 be worked out between the two of you. 5 amount for litigation every year. That's a couple hundred 6 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 6 thousand, but, you know, we don't do it on the basis of 7 Q. It doesn't concern you one way or the other? 7 individual projects, so you're not the first to engage as 8 A. It does concern us as we want a successful 8 in litigation, and probably won't be the last It's sort 9 project there, but until the point in time we know what the 9 of about the same each year. 10 project is, how it might shape out who are going to be 10 Q. All right. Earlier I had asked you about SP-12 11 tenants, what the developer is able to do in relationship 11 and SP-13. It sounded to me like you weren't familiar with 12 to the project, it's too soon to say. 12 the difference of the two. Am I correct that you don't 13 Q. Has anybody told you that the redevelopment 13 know the difference? 14 provisions of the lease will further expand the financial 14 MR. TEPPER: I think you're referring to the 15 commitment that Ezralow and/or the City and the 15 numbers as opposed — 16 Redevelopment Agency will have to be involved in to buy out 16 THE WITNESS: I don'trefer to them by the 17 the lease? 17 numbers. I call The Crossings "Specific Plan," so if you 18 A. No, our — if that's the case, which, again, 18 can show me what you're referring to, then I can — 19 that's what we refer to the attorneys on that side to 19 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 argue. We don't anticipate that that would be a risk that 20 Q. Well, the original plan— the original SP-12, 21 the Redevelopment Agency would be taking. So we've got a 21 which was submitted, had an exhibit which referred to 22 cap on how much money we might put in the project, and, you 22 existing anchors and tenants and the existing anchors had 23 know, if the development of the center' costs them more as a 23 82,000 square feet, which was Mervyn's only, and clearly 24 developer, then they're out-of-pocket for it 24 Burlington was to be demolished under the scenario under 25 Q. So the City, in terms of any buyout of the 25 the SP-12. I'm trying to find out if you, in the Economic 149 151 1 Burlington lease, recognizes that it cannot — the City or 1 Development Department, know anything about that? 2 the Redevelopment Agency cannot commit to a certain dollar 2 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 3 amount, but if it exceeds a certain dollar amount, it's the 3 document. The document speaks for itself. 4 responsibility of the owner? 4 MR. TEPPER: If you want to see a document, you 5 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. 5 might wish to look at it. 6 Ambiguous. 6 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I just don't understand 7 THE WITNESS: Our transaction that we're 7 the difference in your mind between SP-12 and SP-13. 8 currently negotiating makes no assumptions as to those 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 kinds of costs, and if those are costs that are not in the 9 Q. SP-12 was submitted — 10 Pro Forma now and we've capped our liability to a dollar 10 A. Draft 12, are you talking about? 11 amount, then that's the developer's cost, so we're not at 11 Q. We've never gotten a straight answer on this. 12 risk for any of that. 12 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 Q. And, of course, one of the reasons for capping 14 Q. It was called SP-12, and it was prepared on 15 your commitment is because you want to know the full limit 15 March 20th, 2000, submitted to the Planning Department, not 16 of your commitment and you don't want the tax payers to 16 the EDD, on March the 30th, we believe. In it there is an 17 have some unending commitment? . 17 exhibit, Exhibit 4, which clearly refers to existing 18 A. It's good public policy to be able to know 18 tenants to remain, and it has 82,000 square feet only, 19 certainly what our obligations are and where that limit 19 referring to Mervyn's. I'm asking you if you know anything 20 ends, and it's also to a great degree driven by how much 20 about that. 21 public revenue is generated by the project A portion of 21 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 22 that might be committed back. There's also a finite cap. 22 document. The document speaks for itself. It's 23 Q. How much has been budgeted for litigation? 23 misleading. The question assumes that a particular draft 24- A. I don't know. 24 was the -- was SP-12, and that is not the case. It was 25 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. May call for — 25 simply an iteration. P6111 152 - 38 (Pages 149 to 152) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I think when you're referring to SP-12 and SP-13, they may have been numbered, but when I was reviewing the drafts of the specific plan, I wasn't cognizant of them being 12 versus 13, and there were different iterations. When I reviewed those on the basis of my understanding that Ezralow had the right of relocation and we're talking about — BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q., Ezralow. A. Yeah, Ezralow under the lease had the right of relocation, that those tables weren't material. And to the extent they talked about keeping Burlington, for example, also the same thing with Ward's. Earlier on in my discussion with Ward's where they talked about selling their property to then Macerich, downsizing to a much smaller building, so Burlington only occupies one and a half doors of a three-story building. At that point le time, Ezralow was talking about moving to a mach smaller building. So I didn't view — you're trying to read the specific plan to mean Burlington was precluded or included, they were purely illustrative examples of how the scope of development might play oat Q. So were you aware of this chart or were you not aware of it? 25 A. I was aware of the charts daring the various 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25- 153 iterations, yes. Q. Okay. Now — A. And they didn't mean what you interpreted them to mean. That's my understanding of how the City was proposing it. Q. Okay. Thank you. A. Well, you asked a question about it, so — Q. There was a meeting on April 13th, 2000. It's call "The Crossings at Huntington Project Meeting Agenda." Do you remember that meeting? A. No, not if it was a Planning Department meeting. I go to some of those, but not all of those. Q. What determines whether you go to such a meeting or not? A. My schedules, the issues being discussed, and my level of involvement with the project. Q. Do you know what the purpose of the meeting on April 13th, 2000, was? A. Not that I can recall. MR. TUCHMAN: Let met ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 13 — MR. SHIPOW: Yes. MR. TUCHMAN: Thank you. 154 1 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 13 was marked 2 for identification by the court . 3 reporter and is attached hereto.) 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 5 Q. It's Item 9 of the production. And for the 6 record, this is a meeting dated April 13, 2000, 7 Administration Department, there's an outline, and then the 8 second page is "Crossings Meetings, Sign -In." That's your 9 writing there, the sixth line or so; is that right? 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. And you attended this meeting? 12 A. I mast have. 13 Q. Okay. I want you to take a look at the Minutes, 14 please, which are attached, and there's about four pages of 15 them, and see if this refreshes your recollection with 16 respect to what occurred at this meeting. The date of the 17 Minutes are April 20th, 2000. 18 A. Okay. I've reviewed them. 19 Q. Do you recognize these Minutes? Have you ever 20 seen them before? 21 A. I don't recalL 22 Q. Do you know if Burlington Coat Factory was 23 discussed at the meeting of April 20th, 2000? 24 A. I don't know. 25 Q. Do you know why Burlington Coat Factory was not 155 given notice that this meeting was taking place? A. Well, I don't notice internal staff meetings or meetings with applicants. It's not a required public meeting. 5 . Q. Well, why were members of Ezralow present and 6 EDAW? 7 A. Well, EDAW was the consultant that was doing the 8 work on the specific plan and Ezralow was the organization 9 that was coordinating the production of the specific plan 10 for consideration by the City. 11 Q. Is there a reason that Burlington Coat Factory 12 was not invited to this meeting? 13 A. Again, these aren't meetings to which we — these 14 aren't quote, unquote, "public" or "noticed" meetings where 15 we didn't — we don't invite — we didn't invite any other 16 parties that might have an interest in the specific plan to. 17 this meeting. Their opportunity to input comes primarily 18 through the public hearing process. 19 Q. This was not a closed session; am I correct? 20 A. It's not — it's not a meeting. 21 MR. TEPPER: Hold on. Closed session? Are you 22 referring to a City Council meeting or a Planning 23 Commission meeting at which there's a closed session of the 24 Ralph & Brown Act? Or what kind of closed session are you 25 referring to? 156 39 (Pages 153 to 156) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - I MR. TUCHMAN: I think that's what you just said. 1 2 MR. TEPPER: Well, is this a City Council meeting 2 3 that you`re referring to? 3 4 MR. TUC O AN: I'm asking if this April 13 meeting 4 5 was a closed session? 5 6 MR. TEPPER: Well, I'm trying to establish 6 7 whether or not you're talking about a closed session of a 7 8 public meeting or City Council meeting or Planning 8 9 meeting. I'm really confused as to the nature of the 9 10 question. 10 11 MR. TUCHMAN: I understand you're confused. 11 12 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 12 13 Q. You can answer the question. 13 14 MR. TEPPER: No, you can't, if you don't -- 14 15 THE WITNESS: It only applies to meetings of the 15 16 legislative body. Meetings with staff or applicants are 16 17 not public meetings. 17 18 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 18 19 Q. Okay. So this was not a closed session? 19 20 A. This was not a closed session, no. It does not 20 21 contain a meeting of the legislative body. I appreciate 21 22 your trying to help me. 22 23 A. No, you don't, but that's all right. 23 24 Q. Well, now, do you know why the sentence in the 24 25 last -- page 1 of the memo, it says, "A memo will be sent 25 157 1 to City Council with Howard Zelefsky's signature 1 2 anticipating that only one Planning Commission public 2 3 hearing will be necessary for the approval of the 3 4 document"? 4 5 MR. TEPPER: What page are you on? 5 6 MR. TUCHMAN: Page 1 of the meeting Minutes. 6 7 This page here. 7 8 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. Howard could probably 8 9 respond more specifically. I think it was just 9 10 to -- the Council wanted to see the specific plan for them 10 11 as quickly as possible. So I think it was just really 11 12 setting forth that expectation of the Planning Commission. 12 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: - 13 14 Q. Isal that unusual that there would be just one 14 15 Planning Commission public hearing? 15 16 A. No, most projects are done in one Planning 16 17 Commission public hearing. 17 18 Q. When was the last time that happened in one 18 19 Planning Commission? 19 20 A. On a — on a project? 20 21 Q. Yes. 21 22 A. You can look at the last Planning Commission and 22 23 most public hearings were conducted in a single meeting. I 23 24 would say it's actually the rule rather than the 24 25 exception. Howard can give you a better indication. 25 158 DAVID BIGGS, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q. Now, it says, "The Planning Commission"— well ask him. Thank you. "The Planning Commission public hearing will be held on June U." "The City Council public hearing will be held on July 5." In your experience in the last five years as the head of the Economic Development Department and here on behalf of the Person Most Knowledgeable of the Redevelopment Agency, would you say that's rather quick action? A. No, we're usually trying to move projects ahead in that timely of a manner. Q. Now, with respect to study sessions, do you give notice to the public that there are study sessions or is that also you don't give notice? A. No more than regular posting of the agenda. That's the only notice you have to give with regard to public hearing items. I assume you're calling about study sessions with the legislative body? Q. That's what a study session is, isn't it? A. Yes, I just want to make sure we're using the same terms Q. Now, do you know who prepared — who typed up these Minutes? A. No. Let's see. It looks like someone 6vm EDAW did because it says it's "From EDAW." 159 Q. Do you know why EDAW typed up the Minutes as opposed to someone inside the City? A. Typically, when we have a consultant from EDAW doing — we basically hire consultants as an extension of staff, and they usually produce all those activities as if they were a staff person. Q. Do you recognize this format with the bullet points and this font as EDAW-style documents? A. I don't know one way or the other. Q. The way you could tell it was EDAW was by the computer -generated marker at the bottom of the pages? A. No. If you look at the cover sheet, it says, "EDAW. Fax transmission from" — "to the project team from EDAW," and it was the cover sheet to the attached Minutes Q. So Jayna and Alia are from EDAW; is that right? A. Yes Q. When you reviewed these Minutes, did you find anything incorrect with them? A. I don't recall specifically reviewing the Minutes Q. Do you have anything in your file where you marked them up and sent back something corrected in the Minutes? A. If I kept them in my file, they would have been produced. Q. Okay. Thank you. 160- 40 (Pages 157 to 160) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25- MR. SHIPOW: Are we going to take a lunch break at some point? MR. TUCHMAN: I'll do whatever you guys want. MR. SHIPOW: How much longer do you expect to go with Mr. Biggs? MR. TUCHMAN: Well, since he's the PMK, I would say another couple of hours. I think the reporter probably needs a lunch break. MR. SHIPOW: So do I. But you have someone scheduled for 1:00 o'clock. MR. TUCHMAN: Silver. 1:00 or 1:30? MR. TEPPER: 1:00. MR. TUCHMAN: I suggest we take a lunch break and come back, and I think we can finish with him in a couple of hours and do Silver or bring him back and do Silver. MR. TEPPER: I think we ought to bring him back. MR. TUCHMAN: That's fine with me. MR. TEPPER: Silver needs to — MR. TUCHMAN: -- get in and get out. MR. TEPPER: Yeah. MR. TUCHN AN: Okay. THE WITNESS: That's fine. I can do that. III just have to be on jury duty tomorrow. MR. TEPPER: Yeah, you could. MR. SHIPOW: Okay. So are we going to take a 161 break now? Ill take a break now. So — MR. TUCHMAN: So should we d9 a stip for him now? Is he coming back tomorrow, the next day? MR. TEPPER: It's kind of subject to what he finds out tonight at 5:00 o'clock — MR. TUCHMAN: That's fine. Then I propose that -- MR. TEPPER: — and what his schedule is otherwise. We have Gus Duran in the morning. MR. TUCHMAN: Yes. MR. TEPPER: Tomorrow is Wednesday. I can't meet tomorrow afternoon. I have a deposition tomorrow. THE WITNESS: Okay. I can come back at 2:00 tomorrow, if you re doing Gus in the morning. Have you got Howard scheduled yet? MR. TUCHMAN: He's out oftown, I think. MIL TEPPER: He's out of town till Wednesday, I assume+ - THE WrI MESS: Hawaii - MR. SHIPOW: Do we need all this on the record? MR. TUCHMAN: Some of it we did. MR. SHIPOW: Why don't we go off the record and talk about scheduling. MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. (A discussion was held off the record.) 162 1 MR. TUCHMAN: Back on the record. 2 Mr. Biggs has kindly consulted with his calendar 3 and well reconvene this deposition at 2:00 o'clock on 4 Friday, July 28th, here. I usually like to put a slip for 5 each portion of the depo, so what III do is — 6 MR. SHIPOW: It's your depo, whatever you want to 7 do. 8 MR. TUCHMAN: Thank you. Ill propose the 9 reporter will be relieved of her duty under the Code with 10 respect to maintaining the original and obtaining 11 signature; that the transcript be sent to Mr. Biggs, care 12 of Mr. Tepper at Mr. Kane's office with a cover letter 13 indicating its transmittal and a CCed letter to myself and 14 Mr. Shipow; that Mr. Biggs will have 30 days after receipt 15 of the transcript by Mr. Tepper to sign it, review it under 16 penalty of perjury. Mr. Tepper will then, after the 30-day 17 period, provide me with — and Mr. Shipow — of the 18 corrections and the fact that the signature — the 19 transcript has been signed, and Mr. Tepper will provide me 20 with the original transcript in this matter wherein III 21 make it available upon any reasonable request at any 22 proceeding, trial, or arbitration in this matter. In the 23 event the original is not signed under penalty of perjury 24 and corrected, then an unsigned, certified copy -will. be_ 25 useful for all appropriate purposes in lieu of that 163 1 original. And then well see Mr. Biggs back here Friday at 2 2:00 o'clock. 3 Okay, Mr. Biggs? 4 THE WITNESS: Okay. 5 MR. TUCHMAN: So stipulated, Mr. Tepper? 6 MR. TEPPER: Sure. 7 MR. SHIPOW: So stipulated. 8 9 (Whereupon the deposition adjourned at 12:27 p.m.) 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 164 41 (Pages 161 to 164) 7ILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 abbott 3.8 76:21 ability 46:17 84:4 99:23 able 35:20 65:12 107:10 139:14 149:11 150:18 about 7:4,18 19:9 22:2 29:22 30:24 32:12 40:22 41:25 42:5 44:14 45:3 46:12,20,21 47-15 51:9 53:5 58:10 59:8,24 60:14 65:14,15 66:11 67:15 71:22 78:21 84:20 88:12,19 89:19 90:1,8,17,18 94:8,15,17 99:3 104:22 107:6 111:7 114:8,9,12 114:14,15,20,23,25 115:13,18,20,21 122:7 124:17 130:6 132:22 133:25 138:5 140:12 142:16 143:10 144:25 145:24 149:3 151:9,10 152:1,10 152:20 153:7,12,14 153:18 154:7 155:14 157:7 159:17 162:23 absence 37:21 absolutely 6:15 accepted 60:19 access 72:6 128:9,13 accommodated 67:22 accomplish 116:23 accomplished 21:8 achieving 17:13 acquire 74:11 79:7 85:17 acquisition 86:25 acquisitions 66:6 acres 102:6,25 140:6 across 73:9,11 142:22 Act 7:8,8 156:24 acting 20:6 action 20:20,24 27:21 29:16 107:10 111:10 115:16 141:22 159:9 activities 15:22,22 19:19 24:7 131:1 160:5 activity 16:18 acts 20:5 actual 86:24 105:14 106:4 actually 7:10 27:23 35:23 53:12 57:20 69:22 70:20 71:1 71:10 81:16 86:15 89:20 91:20 102:2 103:9 114:24 115:2 118:16 123:13 126:1 149:1 158:24 addition 8:11 135:15 additional 28:5 69:9 85:23,25 139:25 address 9:5,9 46:15 49:1 127:21 addressed 24:24 25:5 62:16 134:5 adjourned 164:9 adjustments 43:15 43:20 administer 24:7 administration 12:24 13:4 155:7 administrative 19:12 19:14 20:13 administrator 15:13 17:8,11,22 19:16 24:10 39:12 87:5 93:11 98:1 109:1 112:19 120:20 130:13 141:14 administrators 130:11 Administrator's 70:15 admonitions 11:9 adopt 24:14 adopted 101:7 adoption 23:10 101:1 102:11 advanced 148:15 advice 51:18 59:6 84:10,15 advisor 57:5 advisory 33:19 56:25 57:14,16-: affordability 16:2 affordable 15:23,25 after 11:18 12:21 13:20,21 14:10,18 14:20 43:22,24 50:17 66:6 82:22 113:1,17 114:25 136:10 139:23 163:14,16 afternoon 162:12 again 20:13 40:15 54:19 61:16 74:13 78:10 81:20 88:20 94:18 101:13 105:17 109:9 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 114:4 119:13 122:5 135:20 144:16,19 149:18 156:13 against 61:14 74:6 95:9 99:6 117:7 14l :22,25 142:5,18 agencies 127:9 agency's 24:7 80:25 139:2 Agency -assisted 41:15 agenda 4:24 40:5,7 86:19 87:14 102:17 111:2 115:16 154:9 159:15 agendas 146:18 aggressive 137:2 ago 102:19,19 agree 43:23 76:4 123:21 agreed 118:5,7 122:8 agreement 27:13,15 30:10,13 35:25 49:7 68:9 70:2 85:15,16 128:22 129:9,10 140:13 agreements 69:20 70:6 ahead 49:16 86:5 87:25 95:13 159:10 Alia 131:18 160:15 allow 48:16 128:12 allowed 126:11 allows 101:10 almost 143:1 along 21:3 65:9 128:25 already 29:14 87:18 133:2 alternative 75:21 76:2,5 81:25 alternatives 75:25 78:22 125:13,17,19 although 70:20 103:6,19 104:2 105:10 always 11:6 40:9 45:25 46:13 73:7 79:19 85:14 109:9 ambiguous 47:4 71:19 72:21 85:3 88:18 89:11 90:16 91:1 123:3 137:20 143:4 150:6 amendment 102:12 102:13 109:4,4 Amongst 134:4 amount 77:18 82:9 126:17,21 150:3,3 150:11 151:5 amounts 126:24 Amy 2:20 Ana 13:23,24 14:3 74:10 analysis 39:17 44:10 57:14 60:1,4,6,11 63:3 119:15 122:7 146:5 analyst 14:2 19:16 analyze 47:14 analyzed 126:5 analyzing 34:1 anchors 151:22,22 Andresid 18:25 20:15 and/or 31:9 47:18 50:2 55:23 85:15 87:21 149:15 Angeles 3:5,10,15 6:2 9:16 announce 37:5 announcement 35:17 35:19 37:10,11,12 37:16 38:11,16 annual 16:5 another 11:718:20 19:2 41:25 54:24 55:4 70:4 74:7 83:15 118:17 127:13 139:9 161:7 answer 5:9 9:10 10:2012:2,3 16:10 16:11 17:20,25 28:16 31:18 41:23 42:21,22 47:5 48:24 49:18 51:24 54:1,2 62:10 63:6 73:5 78:25 90:12 90:19 99:17,20,22 99:22 100:5 108:5 110:19 123:5 140:16 152:11 157:13 answered 75:3 87:25 99:15,18 100:2,3,7 106:6,8 anticipate 68:5,24 149:20 anticipated 41:19 59:25 60:18 126:22137:21 anticipating 76:6 158:2 anybody 12:3 40:19 48:6 53:16 54:11 54:20 55:14 56:15 59:13 82:12 96:21 97:11 125:2 149:13 anyone 10:2 29:1,4 Page 165 47:1 56:1.7.18 59:11,16 85:22 110:23 111:23 122:25 123:24 124:15 131:4 132:6 141:24 anything 7:13 11:25 21:5 29:10 35:14 35:22 36:23 44:8 48:25 58:6 66:13 70:17 75:16 82:2 125:20 152:1,19 160:18,20 Anytime 48:8 Anyway 104:15 anywhere 69:3 appear 114:10 APPEARANCES 3:1 applicant 45:17 46:6 88:6,10,16,23,25 90:5,13,23 91:8,10 91:22 92:3,9,14,18 92:19,22 93:13,18 94:19,24 95:5,12 95:18,23 96:5,13 96:17 109:8,10,12 109:15 110:16 114:19 applicants 94:21 105:14 106:4 156:3 157:16 application 4:19 46:4,16 89:15,17 90:8,11 91:20.24 92:7 93:13 94:25 95:7,16 96:22 103:6,19 104:3,5 104:20 105:11 109:3 110:5 111:10 applications 23:1,3,8 114:7 130:9 147:17 applied 89:2,6,9 90:1 101:25 applies 89:1 157:15 appointed 141:12 appraisal 63:10,19 63:21,24 64:4,25 65:23 66:20 128:10 appraisals 64:15 65:18 appraise 146:5 appraiser 66:17 128:13 appreciate 108:4 157:21 approach 76:1 105:18 114:6 _125:10 137:3 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER approached 83:24 approaches, 114:6 approaching 41:15 appropriate 105:12 105:16,20,22106:3 125:10 163:25 approval 40:3,7 49:9 117:10 158:3 approve 140:13 144:8 approved 67:20 91:6 92:10 96:2 102:18 102:20 115:17 118:7 128:10 approves 141:15 approximately 102:25 April 135:17 141:4 148:9 154:8,18 155:6,17,23 157:4 arbitration 121:6,14 142:5 144:25 163:22 architectural 101:11 architecture 132:16 area 16:22,24 30:4 46:19 70:21 83:15 83:16 102:1,8 110:7 116:23 areas 16:22 17:1 20:25 24:13,14 101:15 124:5 argue 149:20 Argumentative 49:13 54:13 75:4 92:12 95:21 99:8 100:20 107:19 110:17 116:18 117:1 145:11 152:12 around 135:17 139:13 asked 11:19 12:4 25:13 26:13,15 41:24 42:9 44:9 53:12,13 60:24 61:3,8,11,12 75:3 87:25 100:2106:6 125:25.143:10, 151:10154:7 asking.7:24 42:17- 61:24 90:3152:19 157:4 assert 51:18 asses 64:10 assessed 65:9 assessment 63:16 66:10 76:5 assessments 33:22 . assign 23:6 assigned 21:5 112:24 assist 33:22 42:19 47:21 49:7 67:9 117:7 120:24 assistance 42:25 43:7 43:9,11,14 44:2,14 44:15,16,18,20 47:2,7,8 57:23 60:12,24 61:3,8,11 61:13,16,16,19 75:24 83:18 117:17 118:3 121:23.129:19 assistant 19:12,14 20:16 42:17 87:5 assisting 43:5 associated 60:16 associates 1:9 2:9,24 3:3 27:18,20 57:1 68:2 75:11,18 79:24 82:13 87:24 99:7 104:21 129:12 association 13:8 assume 12:4 84:13 84:14 159:17 162:18 assumed 112:9 assumes 55:1 100:21 152:23 assuming 68:6 77:17 assumptions 78:4 150:8 attached 25:3,6,11 27:4 38:7 52:14 80:19 97:20104:9 133:20143:20 145:19 147:11 155:3,14 160:14 attachments 25:14 attend 12:16 85:1 132:5 133:6 attendance 34:18 41:5 56:15 76:17 133:5 attendants 39:10 attended 56:11 155:11 attending 132:8 attends 56-,18,19 attention 125:4 attorney 8:9 31:8 40:8 50:9,22 55:20 " 82:25 107:23 attorneys 56:10 76:18,18 94:4 142:19 149:2,19 Attorney's 40:4. 107:3 attorney/client 8:7,9 51:18,18 53:9 55:20 59:8 94:3 106:23,25 111:21 121:8 attraction 16:8 21:25 August 37:5,9 August/September 11:2 Australia 14:15,16 Australian 14:12 author119:17 authored 34:9 141:24 authority 14:14 27:19 46:18 47:20 47:21 74:17,18 authorization 109:3 authorize 92:8 authorized.31:6 33:15 140:16 144:4,8,9 available 45:2 163:21 Avenue 21:2 81:4 avenues 83:3 average122:13,15 122:23 aviv 3:3 4:21 143:23 avoid 54:15 awaiting 84:2 aware 79:12 80:2,7. 82:1184:5-94:23 95:5 100:8,12,17 112:6 113:12 129:23 130:25 131:4,18,21,24 132:25 143:13 148:21 153:23,24 153:25 away 6:18 75:10,17 A-I-i-a 131:18 a.m 2:22 6:1 b 7:11 8:3 123:2 Bachelor's 12:22 13:3 back 11:5 16:12 26:9 32:15 34:1136:7 38:10 39:1,3 40:14_ 42:21,23 43:9 45:16 51:12,13 52:20 54:1,3,4,6 63:21 69:8 71:5 73:21,23 75:20 78:24 79:1,18 99:12,14,24 100:1 100:10103:16 105:10 108:12 110:8,10 113:17 117:12,20120:12 122:19 128:23 135:14,20138:25 146:9 150:22 160:21 161:14,15 161:16162:3,13 163:1 164:1 background 12:15 33:14 58:5,16 back -dated 97:5,8,9 97:11 113:11,12,13 113:14,16 bailiff 103:22 ballmer 3:13 56:1 76:18 94:7 Barnes 48:11 based 33:11 59:6 61:17 69:2 76:7 83:19 119:1,13 126:25 137:21 basically 6:24 16:14 20:25 21:160:3 107:9 129:8 160:4 basis 7:19 16:5 24:8 32:10 87:19 114:14 122:17,18 122:20 126:6 144:20 151;6 153:5 bathroom 52:16 beach 1:5 2:5 9:8,19 10:1 14:7 15:4,7 18:1,8,12 20:23 22:17 24:6,12 39:15 41:7 43:17 45:8 46:25 58:20 59:13,18 60:25 62:2165:19 71:16 79:12 87:2190:10 95:6,18 96:6 98:8 101:1 105:25 109:2,7 133:16 136:25 137:6,9,17 144:5 146:14 148:19 beauty 71:21 became 14:19,20,24 109:7,12 become 15:4 88:6 92:9 110:16 145:2 before 2:20 24:22 30:24 35:8 36:6 50:17 55:7 57:20 71:10 80:8 82:25 91:10 99:2104,25 108:14 112:4 124:9 136:10 144:12 155:20 behalf 2:19 6:6 118:10,12 144:4,. 159:7 being 9:16 12:4 37:22 46:14 52:6 57:22 60:15 61:6 66:3 67:15 87:16 96:22104:5 106:17 107:14 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 166 116:13 123:10 124:8 153:4 154:15 believe 7:11 18:2 21:20,22 22:11,15 24:23 25:8 26:9 32:4,6 37:1 38:17 41:8 43:10 44:8 56:17 58:21 68:4 69:5,18 70:20 72:14 78:7 80:5 81:13 88:24 91:12 91:14 97:9 99:18 100:3,7 101:7 105:8 114:9 126:5 131:2,7 135:10,25 140:23 145:13 152:16 bell 131:20,23 132:24 beneath 103:2 Benson 19:1 21:16 BERKMAN 3:13 besides 13:16 17:15 18:8 33:156:16,20 83:3 best 11:23 12:13 30:14 59:20 70:7 71:8 74:22 75;19 77:2,5 80:182:20 96:1 99:22 107:17 111:25 116:1,10 127:18 130:2 better 43:13 45:24 57:25 66:18 90:7 106:8 158:25 between 18:13 20:23 23:22 48:15 57:15 69:3 71:9 87:10 100:14,18 117:21 118:5 121:5 131:25 149:2,5 152:7 beyond 72:7 85:23 111:22 biggs 1:19 2:19 3:12 4:12,16 6:5 7:15 8:10,24 9:7 17:15 34:10 39:2 52:10 52:23 59:1180:25 94:23 108:4 114:21 119:17 120:3 121:20 145:16 146:8 161:5 163:2,11,14 164:1,3 bit 61:23 62:1 113:7 142:25 Block 15:24 16:3,4 Board 7:7 27:22 28:22,23 32:23,24 34:16 66:8 75:15 82:4 119:19 128:21 139:23 Bobbie 18:25 20:12 body 31:8 157:16,21 159:18 bond 126:10,14 bonus 63:3 66:13 book 8:8,8,8 booth 45:6 boss 23:13 both 7:25 25:14 33:18 34:3 57:17 67:13,13 71:18 bottom 87:11 122:21 160:11 bought 36:21 71:10 87:17 Boulevard 2:24 3:4 20:23 boundary 21:12 Bowman 132:20 break 52:15,18 103.9,11 133:10 161:1,8,13 162:1,1 breakdown 122:20 breed 3:8 56:16 76:19,21 106:22 brief 52:19 103:15 133:13 briefly 8:1 94:8 117:14 bring 16:14 161:15 161:16 broad 61:23 brought 30:11 95:8 125:4 Brown 7:8,8 156:24 BRUCE 3:14 Brunson 18:19,24 19:15 Bryan 41:9 56:22 67:14 81:2 118:13 budget 19:18,19 151:4 budgeted 150:23 build 137:7,15 building 73:9128:9 128:13 137:19 153:16,17,19 buildings 137:10 built 137:9,10,12_ bullet 160:7 burden 7:11 Burlington's 73:9 82:10,25 84:3 141:2 business 12:24 13:5 14:11 15:22 16:7,8 16:14 22:7 44:25 45:3 66:11 72:4 102:5 111:6 126:9 127:9 145:24 businesses 16:15 22:24 buy 79:24 81:21 86:10 87:18 149:16 buyout 149:25 B-o-w-m-a-n 132:20 B-r-u-n-s-o-n 18:24 C 4:16 Cal 12:22 13:22. calculate 126:11 calculation 126:8,12 calendar 28:4 34:22 75:16 163:2 california 1:1,6 2:1,6 2:22,25 3:5,10,15 6:2 9:8 12:25 13:9 13:16 103:1 135:9 call 20:22 44:5 61:4 83:12 106:22,24 136:4 150:25 151:17 154:9 called 6:6 14:1 17:1 35:1173:7,19 75:2 76:20 103:13,22 109:21 118:17 136:17 138:10 152:14 calls 28:13 30:20 31:14 33:5 41:20 55:19 62:7 81:14 84:16 85:2 106:22 115:23 121:7 125:5 128:2 150:5 came 38:19 53:12 79:8 98:24 cap 149:22 150:22 capacity 115:7 148:20 Capistrano 12:17' capital 56:25 57:3,4 57:8 87:8 138:3 capitalization 60:19 capped 150:10 capping 150:14 care163:11 career 11:6 89:6 Carol 19:121:21 33:15 carryover 40:10 case 1:8 2:8 7:13 10:13,22,23 37:1 46:4 51:7 52:6 . 57:18 113:18 136:13 145:8,10 149:18 152:24 cases 10:8 11:4 Casey 56:25 127:10 cash 43:25 categories 31:12 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER category 32:5 cause 25:15 107:10 115:8 133:24 caused 72:3 caution 59:7 CC 98:5 CCed 112:18,21 163:13 center 1:9 2:9 17:3 19:11,17,20 20:9 20:17,25 21:5,11 21:12,17,19,21,23 22:10 27:18,20 28:9 29:23 30:9,19 36:9,11,19,20 38:1139:18 41:19 44:12,24 45:7,9 47:25 48:13,17 50:3 58:15 61:17 61:17 64:8 65:8 66:15 67:2,3,6,12 68:2,20 70:18,21 70:25 71:7,11 72:24 73:10,14,18 75:2,11,17,20 77:17 79:6,8,24 81:21 82:19 83:5 83:11 85:24 87:23 89:10 99:7 101:3 102:4 104:21 107:13,15 116:21 129:12 137:12,15 137:19,23 138:18 138:19 139:4,10,15 139:18 140:2 149:23 centers 45:1 137:7 certain 11:20 16:1 31:11 43:24 60:15 79:25 101:17 121:3 122:11 148:21 150:2,3 certainly 7:24 8:1 11:25 12:9 30:22 48:9 61:24 65:23 88:14108:15,24 144:11 150:19 151:2 certificate 13:9 certified 2:20 6:8 163:24 chance 52:25 change 93:13,15 94:24,25 95:17,22 96:13,17 103:6 104:3 105:11 changed 91:16,17 95:6,12 96:22 changes 11:21 Chapman 113:2,10 113:20,23,24 114:1 114:3,12,13 characterize 95:1 charge16:17 chart 153:23 charts 123:2 124:11 153:25 check 33:15 39:21 79:18 117:20 135:20 146:15 Chief 17:11 choosing 116:14 chose 37:2,3 circled 147:19 circulate 39:1 circulates 147:16 circumstances 31:11 74:14 75:13 85:5 cities 16:5 25:16 74:8 City's 9:18 14:21 15:21 17:13 53:23 107:17 111:25 114:18 117:6,9 120:23 City -initiated 105:15 city-wide 45:5 claim 6:23 claiming 61:25 Clara 14:23 clarification 91:18 clarify 12:8 47:8 54:7 72:23 clarifying 93:17 94:18 95:25 105:17 clearly 48:15 123:19 151:23 152:17 clerical 20:11 Clerk 87:14 cloak 8:3 clock 69:2 close 80:4 122:5 closed 7:6 8:2 31:3,5 31:6,12 32:1,1,24 33:1,8 34:9,12,12 34:14,15,20,21 35:5,11,13,15,17 36:5 38:25 39:10 40:3,5,6,12 78:13 78:14,16,19 79:16 80:2,7,8,23 87:1,15 87:19 122:3 127:20 128:4,5,11 128:18 129:15,17 142:10,13 156:19 156:21,23,24 157:5 157:7,19,20 closing 82:3 coat 1:5 2:5 17:4 29:5,11 40:19,22 47:3 56:2 58:3 59:14,19 61:9,14 62:22 63:4,24 64:5 65:4 66:3,12 72:4 Page 167 72:16 73:17 75:1,8 82:14,16 83:4 84:5 84:23 85:23 100:19 117:7 126:3 134:2 135:6 135:23 141:21 142:9 143:6 144:15 146:9 148:11,22 155:22 155:25 156:11 Code 4:13 6:13 7:10 44:6 80:24 163:9 cognizant 153:4 coincidental 80:11 80:12 collected 88:2 collection 38:4 come 31:1 49:9 71:21 73:5 105:7 107:18 108:19,21 127:2 161:14 162:13 comes 35:24 104:16 156AT: coming 114:7 115:3 138:1 162:3 command 19:2120:2 commencing 2:22 comment 11:21 23:4 125:9 147:18 commented 144:20 comments 108:4 124:21,23 147:25 commercial 21:2 Commission 114:11 156:23 158:2,12,15 158:17,19,22 159:1 159:2 Commissioner 41:13 125:7 Commissioners 42:15 commit 79:25 150:2 commitment 149:15 150:15,16,17 committed 150:22 common 111:24 communicate 59:13 120:14,16 communicating 120:19 communication 4:18 121:8 community 15:23 16:3,4 23:2 74:20 98:8 116:20 147:4 comp 64:12 company 1:10,11,11 1:11 2:10,11,11,11 41:10,14 89:7 102:24 103:1 104:4 105:12 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00: BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Company's 41:13- compared 136:1 comparing 71:12 75:23 121:23 125:24 comparison 71:7 75:21 76:2 119:9 121:20 125:23 Compel 8:14121:6 121:14 142:5 144:25 complete 49:18 69:23,25 70:2 104:20 completed 11:18 12:25 62:14 68:24 69:6 completion 43:24 complicated 69:21 component 151:2 composition 68:19 Compound 63:5 83:12 comprehensive 30:8 47:25 82:18 131:12 139:3,9,17 computer -generated 160:11 concentration 13:4 concern 115:9 149:7 149:8 concerned 39:19 108:21 144:24 concerning 81:2 87:9 concessions 137:10 conclude 146:5 concluded 29:18 140:3 conclusion 31:15 35:17,23 61:21 72:11,12 83:13 condemn 46:11 65:20 82:10 condemnation 83:1 83:3 condemned 66:3 condition 62:22,24 conduct 66:8; . conducted .158:23' confer 6:19 7:25 conference 56:14 confidential'44:6 - 61:5 128.2 configuration 123:23 configurations 123:25 conformance 16:24 confused 41:24 86:17 157:9,11. confusing 88:11 conjunction 8:14 connection 39:21,22 cons 65:2 consider 59:3 81:25 99:10 107:11 consideration 108:16 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160:21 163:24 corrections 11:20 55:9 163:18 Corridor 17:2 20:19 20:23 23:5 46:5,7 70:19 110:7 cost 39:18 47:12 59:25 60:20,22 76:14 82:10 92:6 122:9,10,10,18 126:7 127:1 150:11 costs 43:2160:2,15 68:11 76:10 78:4,9 78:11 126:11,11 149:23 150:9,9 council 4:14 7:6 17:14 27:14 28:24 31:7 35:3,8 37:20 38:3,18 39:11- 40:2141:6;11,25 42:5,16 66:7 69:8 70:16 80:21 102:18,21 111:8 124:9 127:4,23 128:10136:3,23 140:24141:15 156:22157:2,8 158:1,10159:3 Council's 119:8 Council/Agency 4:17 counsel 3:139:11 84:10,15 country 73:11 county 1:2 2:212:18 14:23 couple 143:17151:5 161:7,14 course 8:14 13:8 65:24 89:6 111:5,5 114:18,22 116:15 145:24 150:14 court 1:12:18:12,13 11:14 16:12 25:2 25:10 27:3 38:6 42:23 52:13 54:3,6 73:23 79:1 80:18 97:19 99:14100:1 103:22104:8 107:22 108:12 110:10133:19 143:19 145:18 147:10155:2 Court's 85:21 covenants 85:18 86:23 cover 68:10 147:1 160:12,14 163:12 covers 102:2,4,8 Covington 132:22 co -applicant 44:21 45:11,13,17 46:3,7 92:1 109:17110:2 co -applicants 45:23 88:19110:3 co -tenancy 73:4 created 99:5100:17 Crossings 73:19 75:2 83:6 96:7151:17 154:9155:8 Cruz 13:10 current 9:21,23 43:2 47:13 123:15,22 124:2 currently 15:13 27:16150:8 Cushman 78:3 cut 147:2 C-o-v-i-n-g-t-o-n 132:23 D 5:1 date 27:25 28:2 34:24,25 41:4 69:24 78:15 88:12 155:16 dated 4:20,21,22 34:20 35:3113:17 119:5,10124:18 133:16143:22 145:15 155:6 dates 96:18141:9 david 1:19 2:19 3:12 4:12,16 6:5 9:7- 34:10 52:10,23 80:25 119:1T 120:3 121:20 day 34:25 38:19 119:10142:22 143:1,10162:3 days 69:6,18,24 140:12163:14 day -today 17:22' 24:8112:19 114:14 130:12 Dazzle 48:1149:20 DDA 127:6129:2,4,6 129:7,12 deal 47:9117:21,25 119:4126:12 127:3,19,21 128:24 129:21 deals 121:1 December 56:12,17- 50:17,18 80:5 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 168 119:5 133:1 decide 74:5,11 149:2 decided 35:14 decides 116:13 decision 35:20 36:3 66:5 73:25 74:2,3 74:18,18 75:5,8,15 75:17 85:16 86:10 87:19 88:6 92:8,14 93:10 94:24 105:19,22 106:2 107:21 136:2 139:23 decisions 46:16 83:8 declaration 4:16 51:5,7,8,10,14,16 51:22 52:2,10,22 53:3,8,18,20,24 54:8,11,21,24 55:3 55:4,15 58:18 declarations 52:5 Dee 50:23,24 defeat 99:5 defendant 115:5 defendabea 1:13 2:13 3:7 defense*116:10 defining 113:14 definition 59:5 degree 12:2213:2,3 150:20 Delaware 1:9,10,11 2:9,10,11 delay 95:25 108:22 delayed 108:23 demolished 151:24 denied 79:20 department 18:9,12 18:17 22:16,19 23:2,2,3,11,25 25:22 26:5 29:8,24 30:17 36:15 43:3 46:24 58:19 59:12 59:17 61:13 64:6 70:23 71:15,23 72:2,9 79:1183:24 98:8,24105:6 130:12 131:5,8,11 131:17,25 132:2,4 132:25 137:23 138:11 144:5 146:14,16,17,19 147:4,16 148:10,21 152:1,15 154:11 155:7159:6 departments 22:25 26:5 31:2 87:22 130:7147:17 department's 26:11 98:16 131:9 depending 47:16,22 67:21 138:6 depends 24:168:13 73:4 74:13 depo 24:21 25:6 163:5,6 deposit 68:10 deposited 68:1,12 deposition 1:18 2:19 4:10,11 6:18 10:4 10:10 11:4,10 12:11 77:8 147:15 162:12 163:3 164:9 describe 7:16 8:24 13:18 20:1 23:22 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129:10 130:3,4 138:11 139:9 144:6 146:19 147:4,17 148:10,20 149:23 152:1 153:22 159:6 developments 86:21 Dick 132:20 difference 71:9 87:10 151:12,13 152:7 different 8:5 46:13 76:6 79:14 104:11 114:14 123:2 129:17 153:5 digressed 30:25 Dinovitz 56:23 131:25 direct 27:22 59:11 59:16 86:25 93:12 144:1 directed 93:15 directing 29:10 direction 17:13,14 27:14 28:7,17,21 29:14 34:17 35:22 40:16 128:21,24 directly 19:24 139:8 director 9:24 14:19 15:5,7,16-17:18,21 18:8,11 20:6 24:9 28:11 29:7 30:16 .36:14 46:24 61:1 93:11,12 94:9 96:11 97:25 98:2 106:9 109:1 148:20 directs 17:12 disability 12:12 disagreed 122:8 disapproved 140:14 disclosures 6:24 discouraging 79:6 discovery 112:15 discretion 74:23 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER discuss 6:14,14 7:15 36:5 48:5 82:21 96:13 99:1,4 113:10,22 123:17 143:2 discussed 30:2 33:7 33:10 40:19 44:18 48:2,9,10,10,11,11 48:12 49:19,24 71:2 74:14 83:9 84:6 85:9,22 99:9 110:14,23 111:1 113:9 114:5 115:11 121:9 122:14,15,17 124:4 124:7 126:17,21,24 126:25 154:15 155:23 discussing 67:21 86:18 106:11 113:25 114:2,8 126:12 discussion 7:6 67:20 82:23 93:19,20,22 93:23 94:1,8 107:22115:18 122:25 123:24 125:13,16127:25 153:14 162:25 discussions 29:20 44:10 46:19 47:15 57:20 67:1,4,13 78:2181:24 83:19 84:4 94:6 96:12 99:3 106:16 114:25 115:2 134:21 discussionsleducat- 46:12 disposed 121:17 disposition 129:10 dispute 48:15,20 145:3 disputes 49:11 dissolving 48:20 divied 61:16 division 22:7 dock 26:8 document 8:1,7 24:24 28:3 32:16 34:24 37:22 42:1,5 45:19105:6 109:6 120:4 142:6,20 148:24,25152:3,3 152:4,22,22 158:4 documentation 36:2 69:23 70:3 documents 4:13 6:12 6:20,21 7:5,5,16 8:12,15 11:10,12 19:13 25:13,15,18 25:21 26:1,4,18 27:6,9,13 30:24 31:132:138:22 112:15 119:11 126:2 129:23 130:8 131:6,8 147:1 160:8 doing 20:19 23:9 36:21 43:16 49:14 50:1 58:16 66:17 79:4,14 110:7 128:22 148:17 156:7 160:4 162:14 dollar 48:10 49:20 82:9150:2,3,10 dollars 77:18 domain 46:18 47:21 dominant 24:4 done 21:7 46:3 49:16 60:12 63:19,21,24 64:2 70:22 99:23 102:6,14105:25 115:1 116:25 127:6,7,8 136:13 136:15 158:16 double 117:20 double-cross 111:14 double-crossed 116:5,6 double -dot 111:15 Doug 41:10 56:21 67:14 81:2 118:13 Douglas 4:22145:25 down 62:165:24 downsizing 153:15 downtown 10:15 30:4 70:4 91:22 102:1 127:7 dozen 10:7 draft 112:3 132:13 140:20152:10,23 dratted 140:22 drafts 55:10153:3 drawer 130:25 driven 150:20 driver's 13:13,16 drug 141:8 duly 6:7 Duran 19:1,22 26:3 85:9 112:22 120'20132:9 140:23 142:14 143:2,23 144:1 162:9 during 19:9 36:8 67:24 89:6 94:10 127:16153:25 duties 15:15,20 17:7 17:10 duty 103:10.161:23 163:9 Page 169 E 5:1 each 8:24 23:25 25:22 45:6 151:9 163:5 earlier 38:19 54:15 57:19 67:4,16 84:22 93:7 119:11 144:19 147:15 151:10 153:13 early 67:13 68:25 129:3 ears 60:7 easier 18:19 Easy 59:7 economic 9:24 14:1 14:19 15:4,7,15 17:16,21 18:9,11 20:20 24:3 26:5 28:11 29:8,23 30:16 33:19 36:14 43:3 46:24 47:9 57:14,16 58:19 59:12,16 60:25. 61:2,13 63:16 64:5 64:16 65:2 71:15 72:2,9 79:11 81:19 83:23 93:12130:3 130:4 138:11 144:5 146:19 148:9,20 151:25 159:6 economically 81:23 economics 47:14 60:14 64:7,11 71:12 75:25 76:5 81:20 82:5 146:6 Ed 41:13 EDAW 20:18 21:4 21:10 132:12 133:1 156:6,7 159:24,25 160:1,3 160:10,13,14,15 EDAW-style 160:8 EDD 22:20 23:23 130:11,22 131:4 152:16 EDD's 24:5 Edinger 17:1 20:19 20:22 21:3 23:4 38:12 46:4,7 70:19 81:4,6 85:13 110:7 Edison 103:1 135:9 education 13:7 educational 12:15 46:16 effect 11:14 64:23 68:10 107:18 effort 20:20,22 21:9 21:15 23:7 45:4 efforts 16:9,23 17:12 21:25 23:4 7ILIO.& ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 ` DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.OW- BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER eight 50:11- either 22:23 29:17 78:15 123:14 127:1 131:23 136:9 139:8 140:3 elaborate 62:25 elected 141:11 election 65:25 66:2 elements 66:20 Eli 19:2 22:9 embarrassing 11:22 12:1 employ 9:18 employed 9:25 10:2 employee 9:15 19:1 19:3 21:16 22:12. 59:12,17 employment 13:18 114:22 encourage 16:23 encouraging 48:14 82:17 end 12:25 48:1 80:5 81:23 113:20 endeavor 46:14 53:22 107:9 endeavored145:13 endeavoring 24:14 endeavors 82:24 ends 150:20 engage 151:7 enough 7:1 ensure 99:10 107:15 117:9 enter 8:16 29:11,20 68:8127:6 entered 28:6 30:12 entities 29:20 89:13 91:14 92:18 95:20' 96:4 100:15,19 129:11 140:1 141:22 142:1 entitled 6:12 entitlement 23:7 39:23 44:21 132:5 entitlements 22:22 entity 28:18 68:2 139:9° entries 31:25t=:. entry 77:25 81:7 - environment 23.8 111:13 116:2 equal23:15,23 " equipped 45:24 errors 107:25 escalating 77:19 escrow 79:12 80:2,8 82:3 ESQ 3:3,4,9,14 essentially 130:19 establish 65:18 90:9 90:13 93:14101:2 101:11 157:6 establishing 64:13 establishment 96:5 estate 7:9 31:9,21 32:2,6 34:17 63:2 63:10 64:4 73:7 82:24 85:18 86:24 estimate 82:9 estimated 47:1176:9 78:9,11 evaluating 65:5 67:9 evaluation 78:1,6 139:2 148:15 evaluations 141:21 even 45:16 79:19 85:6,18 86:24 event163:23 eventually 79:7 112:10 ever 10:418:7 24:22 29:23,23,24 30:2 32:25 33:7 42:25 46:9,22,25 48:5 50:4,18,22,25 51:1 58:2159:11,16 61:12 64:2 65:24 66:4 76:17,22 77:4 77:7 79:23 85:22 86:10 97:1199:1 119:25 122:25 123:17,24 126:17 126:21,24136:4,13 136:15,23 137:13 155:19 every 39:22 40:6,9 49:24 68:10 73:10 127:5,5 142:22 143:1 151:5 everybody 134:10 everything 66:17 111:25 130:3 131:12,15 144:8 evidence 4:13 6:12 7:10 44:6 55:1 100:21 exact 10:14134:16 exactly 82:16133:4 135:12_- EXAM NATION 4:2 9:3 examined 6:8 example 44:23 102:1 153:12 examples 153:21 exceeds 59:1 150:3 except 13:1319:7 83:1 exception 31:21,21 31:2132:7158:25 exceptions 31:22 32:2 excess126:23 excluded 123:20,21 124:1,2 excluding 20:25 124:2 exclusively 28:18 29:19 73:24 140:9 excuse 33:18 executive 24:9 98:1 109:1 120:2,8,10 exhibit 24:20,22 25:1 25:6,9 26:20,24 27:2,7,10 31:25 38:2,5 39:2 40:24 52:9,12,22 55:7,15 58:18 70:9,11,17 71:5 75:21 78:1 80:16,17 85:12 97:16,18,22,24 99:1,5 100:12,18 103:8,18 104:2,4,6 104:7,18105:3,7 105:10106:17 112:3,18 113:11,22 114:23 115:11,13 117:12 125:12 126:2,3 133:9,15 - 133:18,22,24 134:10,11,14 140:20143:16,18 143:24144:12,22 145:15,17,21,23 146:9 147:9,13,14 151:21 152:17,17 154:21 155:1 exhibits 4:8 25:14 129:24131:6 exist 69:12' existing 16:15 46:15 48:12 74:4 82:19 83:17151:22,22 152:17 expand 16:15 44:15 149:14 expansion 16:8 expect 129:2 161:4 expectation 43:11 158:12 expeditious 116:22 expenses 68:14 experience 28:10 29:7 83:19106:9 137:22 159:5 expert 125:9 expires 58:23 explain 45:25 53:16 54:20105:16 106:9 113:15 explanation 60:14 exploring 36:10 exposed 141:7 extension 160:4 extent 19:19 21:6 26:7 50:10 51:17 101:17 110:18 153:12 extra 52:10 97:17 ex-parte 95:16 Ezralow's 56:24 78:22 117:16 121:23 125:24 148:22 Ezralow-related 142:1 Ezralow/City 121:19 Ezralow/Huntington 75:10 Ezralow/Macerich 125:22, fabrications 49:2 face 41:2 70:10,10 70:17 fact 21:13 35:19 63:20 67:19 84:17 85:22 94:20 95:15 99:4,9123:17 124:4143:2 163:18 factor 65:10 66:22 66:24- factory 1:5 2:5 17:4 29:5,12 40:19,22 47:3 56:2 58:3 59:14,19 61:9,14 62:23 63:4,25 64:5 65:5 66:3,12 72:5 72:16 73:17 75:1,9 82:14,16 83:4 84:5 84:23 85:23 100:19 117:8' 126:4134:3 135:6 135:23 141:21 142:9 143:6 144:15 146:9 148:11,22155:22. 155:25 156:11 facts 55:1 100:21 . 107:23 fair 120:25 141:4 142:14 fairly 64:12,13 67:19 faith 66:5 68:9 fall 32:2,5,6 68:25. 129:3 Fallon 80:25 87:4 familiar 27:6 93:10 93:16 110:1 132:14146:13 151:11 far 21:9 22:139:19- 40:16 44:11 45:10 46:20 49:15 50:1 57:23,25 75:25 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 170 106:2 122:20 127:23 128:24,25 139:14 Farrow 132:14 Fauland 23:20 114:10 favor 66:9 fax 98:7,12,15,16 117:13,18 118:14 121:19 160:13 faxed 98:17 feasibility 43:19 Federal 6:25 16:4 fee 43:20 74:12 fees 39:15,19,20,21 39:22,22,24 43:15 44:1 60:17 87:23 88:3 122:10 feet 122:13 142:22 142:24151:23 152:18 few 11:8 82:3 facade 30:7 Fifth 3:9 Figueroa3:14 figures 72.9 file 8:17,19,20 91:20 104:16142:9 160:20,23 filed 84:13 91:24 94:22 128:14,16 files 25:23,25 26:12 31:1,2,4 105:6,7 130:3,21,23,25 131:13 142:10,11 142:13,16 Ming 85:21 filings 142:2 final 36:2 68:17,19 68:21 finalize 67:8 finalized 119:25 120:1 finance 18:4 137:18 financial 42:25 43:7 43:9,11,14,18,18 44:2,11,14 56:25 57:5,14,16,20 58:5 60:12 61:16 62:18 75:24 78:5 83:18 117:17,21,25 118:1 118:19 119:20 121:23 125:18 137:22,25 149:14 financially 42:19 49:8 financials 126:22 financing 126:10 find 79:7 83:15 116:2 151:25 160:17 finds 162:5 fine 6:15 12:2 18:7 37:18 73:10 86:6 95:24 104:17 105:2115:6 161:17,22 162:6 finish 42:8 95:2 161:14 finished 12:22 14:1 finite 150:22 firm 33:19 57:15,23 118:17 132:12 139:9 firms 57:16 first 6:7,23 13:20,21 42:8 51:3 55:12,25 63:20 69:3 87:9 98:3 100:25 104:23 123:1 127:19 135:18 139:22 151:7 firsthand 114:4 131:3 fit 73:15 fits 72:17 115:1 five 16:22 24:13 29:21 30:3,12 49:22,23 66:9 101:15,20 114:22 135:11 159:5 fixtures 63:2 65:5 66:13 fleshed 74:15 floor 2:24 3:5,10 130:15,15,16,17,18 floors 153:17 flow 72:4 follow 117:4 145:7 followed 145:8,10 follows 6:9 follow-up 117:18 font 160:8 foot 143:1 footage 47:11,12 76:13 119:1 122:17,18 footing 23:23 forbidden 6:25 force 11:14 form 11:7 35:25 85:17 119:19 124:2146:15 147:14 Forma 78:10118:1 118:15,16 150:10 formal136:9 Formas 44:9 59:24 format 70:12 160:7 forth 43:9 158:12 forthcoming 37:6 forward 35:24 49:9 53:21 107:12 116:22 foundation 28:14 30:21 138:14 four 27:24 30:12 49:15 102:18 155:14 frame 28:3 46:20,21 Freedman 41:10 freeway 21:2 Freholm 33:15 Friday 96:14 107:7 163:4 164:1 from 12:12,17 13:9 13:22 14:4,17 21:1 26:4 27:14 29:10 31:1,1 38:17 40:7 40:10,25 43:1,8,24 46:23 47:1,1 48:6 56:7,16,19,25 57:1 58:2,8 59:13,24 60:18,24 61:1,2,3 61:12 62:19 64:12- 65:10,11,13 69:18 70:25 72:6 75:10 75:17 76:18,18 79:6,14 81:25 82:12 87:23 95:19 96:21 97:25 98:24 112:15 119:11,12 119:23 120:23 122:11,22 127:10 130:21,23 131:14 133:16 134:22 135:3,5,9,17 138:1 138:11 139:2 142:18,18 143:23 145:16 159:24,25 160:3,13,13,15 front 28:3 30:6 34:22 34:24 42:16 43:21 44:1 52:23 full 150:15 Fullerton 12:23 13:2 13:22 full-time 13:20,21 14:5 fund 16:5 funds 68:12126:25 further 149:14 future 47:13,16 . 48:12 77:17 101:12 138:8,8 F-a-u-l-a-n-d 23:20 F-r-e-h-o-1-m 33:16 gain 128:9,13 gap 43:19,22,23 60:3 60:5,6,9,11,23 62:3 62:4,5 76:16 119:21 122:5 127:1,2 138:5,7 Gary 41:10 56:22 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Gary's 56:22 gate 77:18 gave 44:25 118:2 121:10 general35:22 40:15 46:12 47:11,15 101:1,6,15,17,25 114:6 120:25 121:9 122:12 136:11 generality 8:25 generally 17:11 47:19 48:14 49:25 54:15 60:19 70:21 115:1 121:2 147:2 generated 65:13 106:17 122:11 146:19 148:7 150:21 generates 71:24 72:5 generic 90:19 generically 7:4,15,18 geographic 24:13 102:1 Gerald 113:2 gets 60:12 getting 27:14 40:15 49:16,16 128:23 give 8:21 11:22 34:16 49:25 73:13 80:24 158:25 159:12,14,16 given 24:2 43:19 84:10 95:16 139:2 142:4 156:1 giving 12:13 60:20 go 6:16 8:9 11:8 12:15 14:13 15:3 18:18 26:9 32:15 36:7 40:14 52:20 65:24 68:11 69:8 69:18 74:19 75:20 79:7,18,21 86:5 87:25 95:13 103:13 105:10 116:11 117:12,20 122:19 124:5 135:19 154:12,13 161:4 162:22 goal 36:18 71:23 139:3 goals 17:13 73:4 116:23 goes 16:5 21:1 40:4 45:16 68:10 144:8 going 7:22,22 10:23 11:1,5,8 12:4 24:19 26:19 39:2 41:2142:17 43:9 46:10 47:24 52:8 52:15 54:19 64:24 68:5,6 73:11 79:15 79:24 81:21 83:10 89:11 97:15 103:13 107:7 115:24 120:12 121:19 124:6 . 129:1 132:6 133:8 133:14 136:15,25 138:13 143:15 145:14 149:10 161:1,25 Goldenwest 20:23 gone 134:15 good 7:20 11:8 26:18 49:15 52:17 66:5 68:9104:20 116:10138:24 145:7 146:8,13,18 150:18 gotten 49:18 152:11 govern 101:12 Government 80:24 Governmental 14:14 graduated 12:17 13:1,22 Grant 15:2416:4 granted 108:2,19 Gray 4:22 41:10 56:2167:14 81:2 118:13 121:10 145:25 great 150:20 greater 24:2. Greenberg 132:14 gross 119:1 Group 33:19,20,25 guess 36:20 69:2 129:11 146:12 guide 27:13 guidelines 21:8 101:11 Gus 19:1,22 26:3 66:18 112:22 121:2 132:7,9 140:23 142:10,14 146:1,12 148:7 162:9,14 Gustavo 143:23 guys 26:20 161:3 g-a-a-p 60:9 g-a-p 60:9,10 half 10:7 153:17 Hall 56:13 halt 108:19,21 hand 24:1 Hang 41:2 52:11 happen 68:5,7 74:9 77:19 82:22 89:21 happened 8:6 89:21 121:13 158:18 happens 36:18 Page 171 happy 55:5 142:21 hats 130:19 having 6:7 28:3 57:24 74:7 78:20 Hawaii 162:19 head 23:11,12 68:11 159:6 headed 89:25 hear 22:2 hearing 36:1 66:7 69:24,24 74:20 110:15 118:8 156:18 158:3,15,17 159:3,4,17 hearings 66:8 158:23 hears 66:9 held 13:15 15:6 107:25 159:3,4 162:25 help 16:15 64:15 65:1,5 99:10 157:22 helpful65:23 helping 22:24 44:20 83:15 helps 65:9 her 19:4,14,15 57:1 163:9 Herb 23:20 114:10 hereto 25:3,11 27:4 38:7 52:14 80:19 97:20 104:9 133:20 143:20 145:19 147:11 155:3 high 12:16,17 103:2 142:22,24 143:1 higher 23:24 102:3,9 122:23 highly 11:25 high -quality 71:23 Hill 14:20,22 15:1 Hilton 127:7 him 20:1 22:1 41:14 50:25 51:3,4 62:9 92:7 93:5,15 95:2 103:20 106:15 113:9 115:25 121:11 130:24 159:2 161:14,15,16 162:2 hire 160:4 hired 57:9,1163:9 63:13 77:23 141:10,12,13 historically 105:24 history 13:18 129:15 Hokuld 131:19 hold 7:21 13:12 17:15 81:24 88:11 94:2 95:2 101:24 121:16 156:21 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Holly 77:20,23 102:8 118:14,18 Holtz 19:121:19 home 47:11 hope 70:8 hopeful 42:18 hopefully 149:4 hours 49:15 161:7,15 housing 15:23,25 16:1 19:22 Howard 23:12,15,18 26:17 45:24 94:9 94:15 106:8 114:9 114:24 115:3 158:1,8,25 162:15 Howard's 23:13 Hughes 50:4,7,13,18 56:7,7,9,16,20 106:16 118:13 hundred 151:5 hundreds 114:13 huntington 1:5,9 2:5 2:9 9:8,19 10:1 15:4,7,16 17:3 18:1,8,12 19:11,17 19:20 20:9,17,25 21:5,11,12,17,19 21:21,23 22:10,17 24:6,12 27:18,20 28:8 29:22 30:8,18 36:18 37:6 38:11 39:15,18 41:7 43:17 45:8,9 46:25 58:19 59:13,18 60:25 62:2164:8 65:19 68:2 70:18 70:21,24 71:6,6,11 71:16 72:24 73:18 75:1,17,20 77:17 79:12,24 82:13 83:5 87:21,23 89:10 90:10 95:6 95:18 96:6 98:8 99:6 101:1,3 104:21 105:25, 109:2,7 116:21 123:11 129:12. 133:16136:24 137:6,17 144:5 - 146:14 148:19. 154:9� hurt 111:14 H-o-k-u-k-i 131:19 H-o-1-1-y 77:23 ICSC 73:7 idea 98:19141:1 ideas 76:3 identification 24:20 25:2,10 26:20 27:3 38:6 52:9,13 79:16 80:18 97:16,19 104:8 133:9,15,19 143:16,19 145:15 145:18 147:7,10 154:21 155:2 identified 122:13 130:1 identify 43:18 illustrative 65:17 124:11 135:13 153:21 imagine 40:1,17 77:17 81:17 136:16 imminent 46:18 47:20 improper 110:18 improvement 13:10 30:7 INC 1:6 2:6 Incidentally 105:2 include 123:22 included 26:9 33:12 66:18 101:6 123:19 124:1 130:2153:20 includes 92:7 including 47:19 inclusive 1:12 2:12 income 60:18,20,22 incorporate 21:6 50:2 incorporated 107:14 incorrect 140:17 160:18 . increment 65:16 incurring 68:13 independent 62:19 INDEX 4:1 indicated 67:5 82:15 129:2 133:2 indicating 42:14 163:13 indication 73:13 93:7 118:2 158:25 individual 30:6 151:7 industria,1402:5 industry 57:24 information 5:4 8:22 33:12 44:6 45:2 46:17 58:2,4,5,6,16 59:2161:5 '62:8 65:172:6 78:5 128:3 142:18 informed 41:14 initially 140:12 input 74:20156:17 inside 160:2 instance 74:12 129:5 instigators 54:16 INSTRUCTED 5:9 instructing 62:9 instructions 80:24 intent 117:6,9 137:13,14,17 interest 22:23 36:21 53:21,23 60:17 64:23 74:13 85:17 86:24 96:1 107:12 107:17 111:25 126:7,11 129:8 134:17 135:16,18 136:21 138:25 139:12 156:16 interested 49:20 interests 22:2 46:15 86:2,25 interject 94:3 intern 19:4,7 22:14 internal 156:2 International 45:7 interpreted 124:2. 154:3 interviewing 127:16 Inter -Department 4:18 introduced 41:10 investment 60:21 invite 156:15,15 invited 156:12 involved 11:6 53:17 54:12,22 65:2 138:6 145:2 149:16 involvement 154:16 involves 10:15,21 involving 56:2146:6 in -camera 8:12,15 Irvine 12:2513:6,20 issue 111:8 issued 13:15 issues 8:18 24:1,2,3 154:15 item 32:12 33:14 34:8,8 39:5,14 40:2,5,10 76:9 77:15 104:6,11,15 104:19 121:18 128:5 146:22 147:6 155:5 items 6:13 32:11 104:11 119:4,12 121:3 127:15,19 159:17 iteration 152:25 iterations 122:2 153:5 154:1 I's 111:15 116:5. i.e 119:20 James 23:18 50:4,6 50:13,18 56:16 114:9 119:12 Jane 23:18114:9 January 70:20 132:1 Jayna 132:11 160:15 Jerry 113:3,7 Jim 19:1,2 21:16,23 21:24 22:3 71:3,4 78:3 81:1 118:11 118:13 119:2 120:24 Jim's 122:7 job 13:20,21 14:5,8 17:22 jobs 115:7 John 50:22,24 joint 30:13,13. Jon 131:21 Joyce 19:3 22:12 JR 3:14 Juge 19:4 Julian 40:22 41:1,25 42:5 july 1:20 2:23 6:1 74:24111:8 127:19159:4 163:4 June 13:22 28:169:6 69:19 95:17 96:14 98:18 101:5 102:14,20107:7 111:7112:4,6,18 113:16,17,20 115:14117:6 124:18 142:19 159:3 jury 103:10161:23 just 6:16,19 7:25 11:11 19:3,6 21:13 24:2134:1140:11 40:15 46:16 60:7 62:18 67:20 70:3 70:15 76:4,13- 77:16 80:11,12 82:3,6 89:19,20 91:17 94:18 103:21 104:12 105:17 107:23 111:22,24 115:15 118:3,18 119:8 121:22 122:13 123:22127:1,22' 129:17,21 135:13 136:11 145:7 152:6 157:1 158:9 158:11,14159:20 161:23 J-a-y-n-a 132:11 J-o-n 131:21 J-u-g-e 19:5 J-u-1-i-a-n 41:1 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 172 kane 3:13 55:23 56:1 56:159:6 76:18 81:1 94:6,6 96:14 96:21 106:12,19 118:11 120:3,14 121:1,4,20 140:24 Kane's 77:7 96:21 163:12 keen 107:12 keep 16:15 142:8,10 142:12 keeper131:13 keeping 153:12 keeps 130:23 142:10 Ked 132:17 kept 121:4 160:23 Keyser 57:11,12,17 57:22 59:21,22,23 61:2162:17 69:21 71:4 119:12 Khara 132:22 kickoff 21:14 kind 24:4 58:4 61:14 87:23 88:3 132:15 156:24.162:4 kindly 163:2 kinds 44:22 46:17 73:13 83:20 147:16 150:9 knew 34:3 43:8 106:20 107:9 108:9,18 112:8 knowing 57:24 knowledge 30:14 31:12 41:17 57:25 59:20 64:3 75:19 96:8 97:10 130:2 knowledgeable 24:16 29:9 30:17 46:23 61:172:15 83:2 109:11,14,16 148:18 159:7 knows 112:16 krsto 3:4 6:18 K-e-i-1132:17 K-e-y-s-e-r 57:13 K-h-a-r-a 132:22 L 3:3 143:23 La 71:7,10,11,13 Lack 28:14 30:21 138:14 Laird 41:13 42:15 lamb 19:2 21:23 Lamb's 22:3 land 60:16 64:11 language 149:3,3 large 30:7101:25 102:6 last 10:10,12 19:4 27:24 32:12 56:22 128:10 147:22 148:5 151:8 157:25 158:18,22 159:5 lasted 35:6 Lastly 8:21 later 111:7 131:5 Laura 18:25 20:7,9 law 2:23 6:25 11:15 27:21 31:6 107:24 lead 23:5,6 120:23 learned 141:5 lease 46:15 58:5,20 58:22,23,25,25 59:4 63:3 64:18,20 81:3,5 85:13,24 86:7,11 87:9,11 141:2,5 146:8 148:22 149:14,17 150:1 153:10 leasehold 63:1 65:5 65:15 66:12 82:10 134:17 leases 44:25 leasing 21:25 least 69:24 143:1 leave 149:1 leaving 9:12,14,18 13:6 led 65:24 legal 31:14 39:11 63:3 74:18 83:13 89:4,14,19,21 117:3 legalities 113:22 legally 116:1 117:4 legend 98:7 legislative 31:7 157:16,21 159:18 lending 45:3,5 length 69:11 lessees 64:22 let 19:10 21:14 51:12 93:5 95:2 103:20 113:15 143:16 154:20 letter 4:20,21,22 133:15 134:5,7 140:19 143:22 145:15 146:1,3,7,7 163:12,13 letterhead 144:10 letters 87:8 144:10 let's 8:8 9:1 18:18 23:4 32:11 40:2 52:17,20 75:20 ­77:25 78:8 80:16 84:13,14 88:20 102:23 103:7 105:10 108:5 125:12 127:15 159:24 level 23:15 93:20 102:9 118:2 127:3 154:16 liability 1:9,10,11 2:9,10,11 150:10 liaisons 114:11 license 13:13,16 licenses 13:12,15 lieu 163:25 like 8:6 23:1,1,4,10 30:6 37:14 41:2 42:12 45:2 49:10 53:25 55:4 58:11 65:9 80:10 82:15 90:2 95:1 116:15 118:3 131:10 133:3 134:11,13 147:1 151:11 159:24 163:4 limit 136:11 150:15 150:19 limited 1:9,10,11 2:9 2:10,11 58:8 Linda 18:19 19:10 line 5:10 65:10 122:21 155:9 list 8:10 11:11 26:10 26:21 47:11 134:16 135:13 listed 19:6 27:7,10 30:25 listing 67:3 lists 45:1 litigation 11:7 31:21 32:3,9 52:6 53:14 53:17 54:16,16,22 84:10,13 100:13,14 100:18 107:6 112:7,9 115:8 116:14 117:7 121:5 128:12 141:8 142:18 144:21 150:23 151:3,5,8 litigations 61:15 Gtigation/Petition 144:25 --- litigative 84:3 litigious 111:13 116:1 little 62:1 Livengood 124:15,25 LLC 27:18 LLP 3:8 locate 45:8 located 2:24 14:22 17:5 81:3 locating 73:14 log 6:11,22,25 8:22 117:13 130:1 long 14:7,8,16 15:1 34:10 35:5 43:12 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 69:11 112:17 120:4 longer 59:2 69:16 87:6 134:16 161:4 long-term 58:25 look 20:22 25:7 32:11,15 38:9 40:24 41:147:9,9 47:10 58:12 60:13 60:19 64:15 69:2 70:9 71:5 77:25 80:16,22 111:25 122:19,21 125:12 126:2 127:1 142:21 147:1 152:5 155:13 158:22 160:12 looked 64:14 72:9 .76:14,15 looking 37:17 38:10 39:1,3,7 58:13,14 58:14 65:20 71:6,9 77:15 81:19 85:11 103:18 120:12 121:18 125:18 146:25 looks 41:2 71:17 159:24 Lord 112:16 Los 3:5,10,15 6:2 9:16 loss 142:17 lot 49:14 74:8 lots 52:5 lower 122:24 Luann 18:19,24 19:15 lunch 161:1,8,13 Lynn 33:16 L-a-i-r-d 41:13 L-u-a-n-n 18:24 L-y-n-n 33:16 Maberry 132:17 Macerich 36:8,12,15 36:19,24 37:6 39:25 43:8,10 45:16 46:4 58:15 64:12 71:7,10,12 71:14 79:6,9 91:24 92:1 94:22 109:18 119:5,9 121:24 125:25 153:15 made 33:10 37:10,12 38:16 65:25 66:2,6 75:6 82:9 85:5,7,7 86:10 87:19 88:7 89:17 92:8 94:24 104:18 105:19,21 106:2 108:1,14 119:14 136:2 139:23 main 9:7 31:22 33:24 74:10 115:18 maintaining 163:10 major 64:22 65:7 70:22,23 majority 102:24 129:13 137:25 make 8:9 11:20 22:1 44:22 52:10 55:9' 60:12 66:4 74:17 74:18 81:22 97:17 103:20,21 104:5 107:22,22115:25 116:4,16,19,21 124:10 138:12 148:16 159:20 163:21 makes 111:24 141:14 150:8 making 49:2 mall 37:6 38:11,20 40:16 90:10 96:6 123:11 146:6 managed 71:11 management 13:11 manager 14:6,11,21. 14:24 15:1 17:16 19:23 20:16 22:4,5 22:7 23:6,6 56:24 mandate 124:13 148:13 manner 99:11 116:22159:11 many 10:6 34:6 42:15 49:19 50:6 50:12 56:6 77:1 96:20 125:13 135:12 map 102:12 109:4 March 51:12,13 53:6 54:10,20 56:4,6 58:17 84:8 85:1 103:7 104:4,22 105:12 133:16,25 137:13,18 143:9,22 144:6 145:15,24 152:15,16 Maria 127:8 mark 3:9 24:19 26:20 38:2 51:9 52.9 79:15 97:16 100:9 118:16 133:9,15 143:16 145:15 147:6 154:20 marked 4:9 25:1,9 27:2 38:5 52:12 80:17 97:18 104:7 133:18 143:18 145:17 147:9 155:1 160:21 Page 173 marker 160:11 market 33:21 45:7,9 57:22 marketplace 58:1 60:3 Mark's 118:18 married 127:14 Marston 57:11,12,13 57:17,22 59:21,22 59:23 61:21 62:17 69:21 71:4 119:13 master 30:11 Master's 12:24 material 55:20 93:3 93:5,7 153:11 materialize 119:22 materials 45:9 135:1 math 60:15 matter 21:13 53:23 63:20 67:19 84:17 85:16 89:20,21 90:19 124:4 163:20,22 matters 144:7 may 8:19.19:18 43:23 44:5 47:21 47:2148:13,13 61:4 68:12,12 70:24 73:3,3 75:5 75:5,12 78:17 80:9 81:22 83:12 84:11 84:11 86:16 90:3 94:2 106:22,24 114:12 139:13,19 140:23 150:25 153:2 maybe 66:23,23 77:2 108:20,20 118:17 120:20,20,20 124:6 137:11 . 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HUNTINGTON CENTER 144:15,20162:11 meeting 4:24 8:4,4,5 8:6 21:14 31:8,23 33:1 35:3,9,24 37:12 40:25 41:6 48:1,7 57:1,2 76:17 77:4,7 79:22 81:9,11,15 84:6,11 84:14,22,23,25 128:11 133:3 146:18 154:8,9,10 154:11,13,17 155:6 155:11,16,23.156:1 156:4,12,17,20,22 156:23157:2,4,8,8 157:9,21 158:6,23 meetings 33:1,8 50:8 50:10 56:11,12,16 56:19,19 82:4,7 84:18 131:24 132:6,7,7 133:1,4 155:8 156:2,3,13 156:14 157:15,16 157:17 meets 16:1 132:2 Melanie 80:25 87:4 member 38:18 40:22 41:25 42:5 members 39:11 41:11 42:16 156:5 memo 33:14,25 34:6 78:1,6,15 93:16,19 93:21 95:25 97:4 97:13,17,25 98:3 98:20,22 99:1,5,10 100:8,12,17 106:12 108:25 112:4,6,18 112:18,21 113:1,10 114:5,16 115:14,18' 124:18 147:22 148:6,8 157:25,25 memory 37:15 52:1 119:8 mentioned 45:11 70:24 126:14 147:14 merged 16:21 Mervyn's 134:15,18 134:19151:23, 152:19= met 51:3 106:14,14- 106:15 154:20- middle 41:1 69:4 might 23:9 37:15 44:11 60:1173:5 83:17 87:2 108:22 119:10,19 131:11 131:13 133:6 146:5 149:10,22 150:22 152:5 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29:16,19 33:23 68:18 85:15 129:22150:8 negotiation 7:12 27:12 81:4 85:12 86:6 . negotiations 7:10 27:11,14 29:18 35:23,24 36:3,8 43:2,23 47:22 69:12 81:2 86:23 127:23 128:20 140:4 negotiator 120:23 negotiators 31:9 34:16 80:25 118:9 Nelson 18:25 20:9 Nelson's 20:7 never 61:1185:9 104:25 105:3 106:14126:5 137:2152:11 new 73:18 90:9,13 93:14 96:6101:5 101:13 115:8,10 news 101:8 next 14:5 34:8 41:11 41:12 76:9 78:8 101:10102:23 108:25 119:4 120:2121.18 126:1 129:19 162:3 night 80:8 Noble 48:11 None 5:5 6 1: 10 non-public 31:8 non -specifically 83:14 normal 111:5 normally 133:5 north 103:2 Nos 30:25 note 30:25 147:3 notes 103:20120:2 120:13 nothing 101:13 115:8,10118:5,7 notice 4:10,1124:20 25:6 69:22,23 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 174 95:15 156:1,2 159:13,14,16 noticed 66:7 110:15 128:11 156:14 noticing 36:2 November 43:5 44:4 44:17 78:18 80:6 number 9:6,21 65:11 76:13 98:12,15,16 120:5 122:21 123:15 124:5 numbered 153:2 numbers 151:15,17 numerous 112:15 N-a-f-f-a-h 19:2 oath 11:13 object 89:11 objection 17:17 28:13 30:20 31:14 31:19 41:20 44:5 47:4 48:21 49:13 54:13 55:19 61:4 62:6,7 63:5 71:19 75:3 81:14 83:12 84:7,16 85:2 86:13 89:4,15 90:16,24 92:11 95:11,21,23 96:15,16 99:8,21 100:20 106:5 107:19 108:13 110:17 115:23 116:18 117:1 121-:7 123:3 125:5 128:2137:20 138:14 143:4 145:11 150:5,25 152:2,12,21 objections 7:19 96:23 108:13 138:22 objectives 17:13 139:17 obligates 11:15 obligations 150:19 obtaining 163:10 obtuse 89:25 Obviously 93:6 occasion 56:11 Occasionally 50:5 occupies 153:16 occur 31:13 36:3 79:17,19 81:9 83:20 occurred 49:3 64:13 133:6155:16 occurs 49:10 October 18:14 40:18 69:4 off 77:12 143:16 162:22,25 offense 116:10,11 offer 44:2,3 66:4 83:16 offered 6:13 8:24 121:24 offhand 18:5 20:10 58:24 92:24 132:19 office 18:18,19 20:5 20:8.13 40:5 53:13 55:3 56:7 70:15 77:4,6,7 96:22 106:14 107:3 130:14,17,18 137:10 163:12 officer 17:11 18:6 offices 2:23 84:6 105:3,3 often 24:1 50:8 64:14 128:23 oh 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HUNTINGTON CENTER ought 161:16 ourselves 116:2 out 20:5,24 26:19 36:16 41:21 44:24 46:11 49:4,5 54:14 61:16 66:9 73:5 74:5,6,15 77:16,18 79:7,8 90:2 104:16 111:25 112:4 133:24 135:11,12 144:8,10,12,18 145:23 149:5,10,16 151:25 153:22 161:19 162:5,16,17 outcome 47:22 outline 34:9,10,12,20 38:25 117:16 120:13 127:20 155:7 outlined 17:23 118:3 119:18 outlines 78:11 outside 69:11,13 outweighs 7:13 out-of-pocket 149:24 over 6:20 8:10 11:8 12:15 21:2 26:9 40:11 43:23 77:19 88:20 142:2 overall 64:8,9 67:1 73:4 74:22 82:3 122:21 overexaggeration 142:25 own 21:1 23:25 25:22 72:5 79:5 91:21 119:15 129:8,13 owned 36:6 71:11 102:6 owner 27:12,15 29:15 30:5,10 35:25 49:1 58:7 59:3 68:8 70:2,6 74:6 81:25 84:1 85:15 86:20 90:1 102:7,24 127:6 129:9 134:7 136:6 136:10,12,19 140:13 150:4 owners 30:6,12 47:19 74:2182:20 91:23 ownership 36:9 74:13 103:1 owner's 74:3 owner/developer 75:10 owner/developers 110:4 owns 102:25 o'clock 161:10 162:5 163:3 164:2- package 33:12 44:11 page 4:2,8 5:10 34:13 38:9,10 40:25 41:1,2,12 53:2 70:10,10,17 77:25 78:8 80:21 147:22 148:5 155:8 157:25 158:5,6,7 pages 1:10 34:6 38:4 125:14 155:14 160:11 paper 142:22 paragraph 102:23 136:22 parcels 101:20 Pardon 69:17 111:17 124:22 145:9 park 102:5,5 part 7:8 8:4 21:24 22:21 24:18 26:3,3 30:6 33:13,22 72:23 90:12,12 94:5,7,8 participant 90:1 participants 82:1 134:8 136:12 participate 93:22 138:7 participation 27:12 27:15 29:15 30:10 30:13 33:11 35:25 58:7 59:3 68:9 70:2,6 84:1 85:15 86:21,21 119:17,19 119:22,24 127:6 128:22 129:9 136:6,10,20 140:13 148:23 participations 30:5 particular 22:6 37:16 39:5 53:23 54:7,17 79:22 85:5 124:12,13 126:9,25 132:13 148:13 152:23 particularly 29:22 parties 48:16 156:16 partner 137:22,25 138:3 partnering 139:8 partners 41:10 77:20 77:23 118:14,18 parts 140:1 party 29:15,18 49:11 86:8 88:8,9 145:3 pass 127:18 passed 45:3 passing 70:25 94:8 Page 175 94:10 past 67:4 69:18 83:19 pay 66:15 92:6 122:23,24 payers 49:12 150:16 paying 60:1 pays 39:22 penalty 11:19 163:16 163:23 pending 53:14 84:10 95:7 99:6 100:13 100:18 108:6,10 121:5 people 18:16,16 19:6 20:11 22:1 33:17 34:2 44:20 45:1,9 48:13 50:2 73:8 82:24 107:2 114:14 130:6 134:11 per122:18 percentage 138:3 performed 141:20 Perhaps60:7 period 40:18 43:23 108:22127:16 140:10,11 163:17 perjury 11:19 163:16,23 person 7:23 20:18 24:16 29:8 30:17 46:22 61:1 72:15 83:2 106:1 109:11 112:23 121:1 131:14,21 142:15 148:18 159:7 160:6 personality 71:21 personally 24:25 25:5 26:1 66:16 140:20 personnel 31:20 32:2 persons 81:11 person's 131:18 perspective 24:1 70:25 120:23 131:15 pertaining 131:1 141:25 pertains 70:18 Petition 121:6,13 142:4 phone 8:7,8,8 9:6,21 51:4 phrase 89:12 Pickel 118:16,20,21 118:23,24 place 27:23 56:12,13 71:1 74:10 77:9 81:15 82:21 88:12 131:24 156:1 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS, 07,25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER plaintiff 1:7 2:7,20 3:2 6:7 ' Plaintiff's 4:9 25:1,9 27:2 38:5 52:12 80:17 97:18 104:7 133:18 143:18 145:17 147:9 155:1 plan 4:18 20:20 21:1 21:7 23:5,7,10 24:15 26:8 39:21 44:22 45:14,18 46:1,5,8 53:21 67:20,23 82:20 90:9,11,14,18 91:3 91:4,6,21,22,25 92:3,5,7,10,15,23 93:14 94:2196:1,6 99:11 101:1,2,10 101:15,16,17,19,23 101:24,24 102:2,4 102:7,11,16 105:15 107:11,12,16 108:16 109:5,18 110:6 114:7,19 115:17 117:11 123:1,10,14,15 124:8,12 131:9,14 132:13 146:15,21 148:1,13,14 151:17 151:20153:3,20 156:8,9,16158:10 planner 125:8 planning 9:12,18 13:25 20:20 22:16 22:20 23:1,11,12 23:23 24:2 26:8,11 41:12 42:15,17 70:23,25 88:2 94:9 96:11 97:25 98:16 101:6 104:18 105:5 106:8 107:24 113:25 114:2,11 125:7,9 130:8,9 131:8,11 131:12,16,25 132:2 132:4,7,25133:2 146:14,14,-20,23, 147:1,2,15152:15 154:11 156:22 157:8 158:2,12,15. 158:16;19,22159:1 159:2 plans 20:24,24 36:10, 46:2 91:19 94:20' 105:18,25 124:10 147:16 play 67:10 153:22 players 57:24 Plaza 127:8 please 12:8,21 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85:13,19,24 86:2 86:12,25 87:10 88:16 90:6 91:23 101:4 102:6,6,7,24 103:3 119:3,6,21 129:8 136:25 153:15 proponent 92:5,6 proposal 71:13 105:14 117:14 118:15 125:22 129:19 135:2,21 136:22 139:13 148:16 proposals 43:8 79:5 81:25 119:14 135:22 136:1 138:24 139:24 propose 162:6 163:8 proposed 38:20 40:16 47:1167:3 81:5 85:12 86:7 119:17,24 129:21 proposing 133:4 139:9 154:5 pros 65:2 prospectives 45:6 protect 116:16. protected 44:6 prove 11:22 12:1 provide 33:21 44:16 44:20 45:2 47:2 51:7 53:8,18,24 54:11,21 59:18,22 105:3 119:20 163:17,19 provided 8:22 17:14 26:6,12 28:21 51:5 52:22 53:20 54:25 112:10,11,13,14 128:21 129:25 135:22 providing 52:2 55:15 112:15 138:4 province 111:21 provisions 148:21 149:14 public 11:6 12:24 13:4 16:6 18:4 23:1 31:22 34:3 35:24 36:1 49:9 65:10 66:7 69:23 69:24 71:24 74:20 107:24 117:3 118:8,24 129:19 131:10,13 138:8 150:18,21 156:3,14 156:18 157:8,17 158:2,15,17,23 159:2,3,13,17 purchase 41:19 78:22 81:5 85:13 86:7,11 87:11 purchaser 38:20 purchase/sale/or 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106:1 reaction 124:23 read 16:1142:21,22 54:3,4,5 73:21,22 78:24,25 99:12,13 99:24,25 108:11 110:8,9 124:10,18 153:19 reading 87:1 124:16 ready 79:21 103:25 real 7:9 31:9,21 32:2 32:6 34:17 63:2,9 64:4 73:7 82:24 85:17 86:24 92:2 103:9 realize 42:11 realized 81:21 really 7:14 21:14 36:22 44:10 49:4 62:18 67:6,8 73:3 73:5 74:14 83:18 84:2,3 86:22 108:4 119:21 125:8 157:9 158:11 reason 12:8,10 37:9 53:19 84:21 111:15 156:11 reasonable 60:2,21 60:22 72:13,14 73:10 163:21 reasons 65:11 146:7 150:14 Rebecca 56:25 127:10 recall 10:15-11:5 18:5 26:7 27:25 28:2 32:19 33:2,4 . 34:6,7 35:7 37:8 37:16,24 38:24 40:14,20,23 44:19 48:4 49:21 50:14 50:16,20,24 51:6,8 53:22 54:23 55:11 55:13 56:5,8,17,22 59:5 67:18,25 77:22,24 78:17,18 79:18 81:10,17,18 84:9,24 85:6,10 86:3,5 87:16 93:25 94:17 96:18,24 DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 97:3 98:4 100:22 104:23 105:1,8 106:18 107:1,3 110:25 111:3.23 112:5 113:4,5,6,8,8 113:21,24 115:2 120:7,9 122:16 124:17 125:15 132:16 135:12,19 141:3,8 142:3,6,20 143:14 144:13 146:10 154:19 155:21 160:19 receipt 163:14 receive 97:13 134:22 135:13,16,19 received 6:11 24:24 25:19 87:22 98:5 135:3,5,8,8,11,17 135:22 142:17 147:20 receiving 135:15 recent 64:12 82:23 128:5,6 recently 27:24 28:2 64:13 67:19 70:5 84:18 91:6 102:18 124:8 recess 52:19 103:15 133:13 recognize 70:10,12 97:22 118:18 133:22 143:24 144:2 145:21 155:19 160:7 recognizes 150:1 recollect 112:8 recollection 34:2 38:15 39:17 53:11 55:22 71:9 74:11 75:23 77:2,5 80:1 114:17 119:7,18 121:22 144:14 155:15 recommendations 141:15 reconvene 163:3 record 6:15 7:22 9:6 52:20 103:16 104:6 155:6 162:20,22,25 163:1 Recorded 86:2 records 33:13 recreate 36:7 recruitment 21:24 45:4 50:2 recruitments 45:5 redevelop 88:16 redeveloped 137:23 redeveloping 39:18 refer 39:3 45:8 109:24 126:3 136:6,19 149:19 151:16 reference 31:9 34:4 42:8 87:11 104:18 referrals 22:1 44:22 referred 41:25 42:12 83:5 104:6 151:21 referring 37:11,15 71:20 120:5 151:14,18 152:19 153:1 156:22,25 157:3 refers 34:25 152:17 reflected 25:14 reflects 45:19 refresh 37:15 38:15 52:1 144:14 refreshes 155:15 refreshing 119:8 refusing 100:5 regard 25:19 34:17 53:24 54:17 59:23 61:15,19 86:20 120:24 159:16 regarding 38:11 51:4 51:10 64:8 81:1 85:18 86:20 93:19 93:20 96:13 124:15 Registered 2:21 regular 70:15 121:10 159:15 regularly 113:3 132:3 133:3 regulations 102:3 rehab 23:9 rehouse 23:9 rejected 140:8 relate 47:13 related 19:19 66:13 96:4 100:15 131:9 relating 130:9 relationship 22:19 23:22 24:4,5 36:9 36:10 42:13 49:3 53:14 74:4 111:21 112:10 113:4 149:11 relative 41:18 43:5,7 48:19 61:8 62:22 75:16 89:9 121:5 130:22 141:21 relatively 60:15 relevance 7:13 89:4 89:15 relies 51:17 relieved 163:9 relocation 149:4 153:7,11 remain 75:9 152:18 remained 15:16 remaining 59:4 Page 177 remains 75:1,9 148:12 remember 11:3 19:3 37:21 42:10 55:5 56:3 94:5 113:5 154:10 reminded 129:17 removed 92:18 render 2 1: 10 renegotiating 70:5 renegotiation 69:20 rents 122:14,15,20 122:22 repay 43:23 repeat 16:10 73:20 101:18 report 61:24 62:14 62:17 69:22 141:24 142:2,3 reporter 2:21,21 6:8 16:12 24:19 25:3 25:11 26:19 27:4 38:7 42:23 52:9,14 54:3,6 73:23 79:1 79:15 80:19 91:16 97:20 99:14 100:1 104:9 108:12 110:10133:9,14,20 139:6 143:15,20 145:14,19 147:6,8 147:11 154:20 155:3 161:7 163:9 reports 19:24 62:19 65:13 69:25 141:20 represent 41:18 representatives 41:14 47:1 48:2 request 4:23 25:19 35:12 40:2,4,7,10 58:7 61:18 69:9 75:24 78:13 79:5 79:20 83:17 85:5 105:4 117:16 121:23 125:25 136:21 138:24 147:5 163:21 requested 5:4 16:12 42:23 54:3,6 73:23 78:14,19 79:1 84:14 85:1 99:14 100:1 108:12 110:10 119:9 135:2 requesting 40:12 78:16 require 75:15 86:23 148:23 required 36:1 66:8 100:25 108:1 156:3 requirement 31:22 JILIO &ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID BIGGS 07.25.0 Q~ vx. BURLINGTON V. 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HUNTINGTON CENTER 67:23 81:18 90:9 90:11,13,17 91:3,4 91:6,19,21,22,25 92:3,5, 7,10,15,22 93:14 94:20,21 96:1,6,8,18 99:10 101:2,10,16,19,23 101:24 102:1,4,7 102:11,16 105:14 105:18,24 107:11 107:12,16 108:16 109:5,18 110:6 114:7,19 117:11 123:1,10,14,15 124:8,11 126:6 130:9 131:9,14 141:9 142:20 148:13,14 151:17 153:3,20 156:8,9 156:16 158:10 specifically 11:11 20:17 32:15 37:16 44:19 46:19 47:13 50:14,20 53:20 55:5 56:8 67:19 71:2,8 72:7,23 76:7 84:1 85:6 88:3 100:23 105:9 106:18 107:1,3 111:24 112:5 113:4,5,9 121:15 128:12 132:16 142:6 143:14,25 144:7 151:4 158:9 160:19 specificity 102:10 127:3 speculate 37:23 75:14 speculating 37:4 speculation 28:13 30:20 33:5 41:20 84:16 85:2 106:22 115:23 125:5 150:5 speculations 81:14 spend 6:16 spent 77:18 spoke 50:25 114:12 spoken 50:6 51:4 114:13 SPs 123:17 SP-12 123:7,9 151:10,20,25 152:7 152:9,14,24 153:2 SP-13 123:12151:11 152:7 153:2 square 47:11,12 76:13 119:1 122:13,17,18 151:23 152:18 stack 142:21 staff 17:12 25:19 27:22 44:25 70:14 88:2 112:23 113:25 114:2 141:12 156:2 157:16 160:5,6 stage 10:25 standard 114:18 147:14 standards 101:3 102:3 stands 63:4 Staples 48:12 start 32:12 88:20 started 13:25 15:17 18:14 19:3 starting 13:19,21 state 1:1 2:1,22 6:25 9:5 12:22 13:15,22 14:14 27:2131:6 148:10 stated 87:12 94:1 139:3,17 statement 54:15 103:4 135:18 136:21 139:12 Statements 135:16 138:25 status 49:25 62:22 62:24 93:17141:1 statutory 70:1 stay 49:4,5 step 135:18 Steve 19:1 21:19 still 10:23 27:11 49:18 61:6 68:18 73:12 78:20 92:22 139:25 stip 162:2 163:4 stipulate 8:11 stipulated 164:5,7 stipulation 8:17 stop 103:7 107:9 store 138:12 story 124:6 straight 65:13 152:11 street 3:9,14 9:7 16:21 73:9 strike 34:18 strip 21:2 stronger 57:23 structure 23:16 studies 72:3 study 4:14 38:3,18 38:23 70:16,19 159:12,13,17,19 sub 16:22 24:13 subject 36:143:2 53:9 81:4 85:11,12 110:24 162:4 submit 44:9 140:1 Page 179 Submittal 78:2,6 submitted 32:21,22 32:23,25 103:7 104:3,21 105:11 109:18 118:1 123-18 134:19 135:20 139:13 151:21 152:9,15 Subpoena 24:23,24 25:5 26:16 115:6 Subpoenas 25:16 129:24 subsequent 115:16 124:19 substance 7:16,18 61:24 Substantially 15:20 subtract 127:1 successful119:21 149:8 successfully 29:17 140:3 sue 127:25 sued 52:T- sufficiently 148:15 suggest 161:13 suggested 123:25 140:5 suggestions 71:1 suggests 110:18 suit 61:14 115:5 141:25 Suite 3:15 suited 90:7 115:17 summary 122:5 129:20 summer 19:4,7 22:14 SUPERIOR 1:1 2:1 supervisor 15:10,12 support 20:11,14 60:20,22 127:2 supportable 43:22 suppose 23:25 112:9 137:1 supposed 49:3 75:2 Suracci 18:19,21 19:10 sure 9:7 10:14 60:12 89:5 103:21 104:1 104:5 115:25 116:4,16,19,21 133:12 138:12 159:20 164:6 surprised 92:25 surprising 97:7 surrounds 70:21 sworn 6:7 system 22:25 44:21 85:21 119:20 132:5 S-a-y-b-r-o-o-k 57:6 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 s DAVID BIGGS, 07.25.0W BURLINGTON V. 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HUNTINGTON CENTER I SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA I APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF- 3 3 TUCHMAN & ASSOCIATES 4 BY: AVIV L. TUCHMAN, ESQ• 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY ) 4 3435 Wilshire Boulevard WAREHOUSE OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, ) 30th Floor 6 INC., a California Corporation, ) 5 Los Angeles, California 90010 (213) 385-8000 7 Plaintiff, ) 6 )) 7 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 8 vs. Case No. 8 WHITMAN, BREED, ABBOTT & MORGAN, LLP 00CCO6309 BY: MARKS. SHIPOW, ESQ. 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) 9 633 West Fifth Street a Delaware Limited Liability ) Twenty -First Floor 10 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) 10 Los Angeles, California 90071-2040 a Delaware Limited Liability ) (213) 896-2413 11 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) 11 Delaware Limited Liability Company,) 12 FOR DAVID BIGGS: 12 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive, ) 13 KANE, BA<.LMER & BERKMAN BY: R. BRUCE TEPPER, JR., ESQ. 13 Defendants ) 14 515 South Figueroa Street Suite 1850 14 15 Los Angeles, California 90071 15 (213)617-0480 16 16 17 17 18 DEPOSITION OF: 18 - 19 RAY SILVER 19 20 TUESDAY, JULY 25, 2000 20 - 21 23 21 22 23 Avg 1 4 20�0 24 24 25 25 1 3 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 INDEX 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 EXAMINATION BY Page 3 4 3 MR. TUCHN AN ------------------------------ 5 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY ) 4 WAREHOUSE OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, ) 5 6 INC., a California Corporation ) 6 7 Plaintiff,) ) 7 8 EXHIBITS 8 vs. ) Case No. Page 9 )OOCC06309 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, 9 Plaintiffs Description Marked ) a Delaware Limited Liability ) 10 14 Notice of Taking Deposition. 19 10 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) 11 15 June 5th Memo from Jane Madera 53 a Delaware Limited Liability ) 12 16 June 9th Letter from Jane James 57 11 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) Delaware Limited Liability Company,) 13 17 Memo from David Biggs 58 12 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive, ) 14 18 Agenda Item 67 15 19 RAA dated July 17th, 2000 79 13 Defendants< ) _ — ) 16 14 17 15 18 16 17 .. 19 INFORMATION REQUESTED 18 20 (None.) 19 The deposition of RAY SILVER, taken on behalf of 21 20 the Plaintiff, before Amy Saylor, Certified Shorthand 22 21 22 Reporter No. 11560, Registered Professional Reporter, for the State of California, commencing at 1: 10 p.m., on 23 WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER 23 Tuesday, July 25, 2000, at the Law Offices of Tuchman & 24 (None.) 24 Associates, located at 3435 Wilshire Boulevard, 30th Floor, 25 25 Los Angeles, California. 2 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - I Tuesday, July 25, 2000; 1:10 p.m. 1 2 Los Angeles, California 2 3 3 4 4 5 RAY SILVER 5 6 called as a witness by and on behalf of the 6 7 Plaintiff, and having been first duly sworn by 7 8 the Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined 8 9 and testified as follows: 9 10 10 l 1 EXAMINATION 11 12 Br MR. TUCHMAN: 12 13 Q. Okay. Can you state and spell your name for the 13 14 record, please. 14 15 A. Ray, R-a-y; Silver, S-i-I-v-e-r. 15 16 Q. And your current address and phone number? 16 17 A. 2000 Main Street, Huntington Beach, California, 17 18 92648. 18 19 Q. And what is your -- did you give us your phone 19 20 number and fax number? 20 21 A. I gave her the business card that has all 21 22 the -- it has the e-mail address and the fax number of the 22 23 deponent 23 24 Q. City Administrator. Number, (714) 536-5575. 24 25 Fax, (714) 536-5233. Okay. 25 0 l Have you ever had your deposition taken before? 1 2 A. Yes, I have. 2 3 Q. Approximately how many times? 3 4 A. Three times. 4 5 Q. Three times? 5 6 A. Uh-huh. 6 7 Q. And what are the names of the cases? 7 8 A. Geez, first one, I think was "City of Coronado 8 9 versus Hotel Del Coronado." Second one -- I'm supposed to 9 10 remember this? 10 11 MR. TEPPER: If you don'tremember, you don't 11 12 remember. 12 13 THE WITNESS: "The City of Huntington Beach 13 14 versus Mulligan." 14 15 MR. TEPPER: Yeah, that was the Mulligan case. 15 t6 THE WITNESS: And there was a third one. I don't 16 17 recall right now the third one. 17 18 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 18 l9 Q. Okay. Is the third one the oldest one or the 19 20 newest one? 20 21 A. Somewhere between the two I gave you. 21 22 Q. Okay. Mulligan was in the past two or so? 22 23 A. Yes, it was 23 24 Q. The middle case, that was as your capacity as an 24 25 employee of Huntington Beach? 25 6 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. No, I think it was with a different agency. Q. I'm trying to — to be honest with you, I know there was a third one, I just don't recall what city it was. Q. Okay. When the Coronado depo was taken, that was in your position other than with Huntington Beach? A. Right It's because I had been City Manager of Coronado. Q. Okay. Well get to your employment background in a second. A. Sure: Q. The oath that you've taken has the same force and effect as if you were testifying in a court of law and obligates you to tell the truth. Do you understand that? A. Yes, I do. Q. After — if you respond to one of my questions, I and all present in reading the transcript will assume you understand what I am asking. Do you understand that? A. Yes, I do. Q. If you don't understand the question or if for some reason it's ambiguous to you, please ask me to rephrase. After the transcript — after we are completed today, the transcript will be prepared and sent to your 7 attorney. You71 be asked to review it and sign it under penalty of perjury. Do you understand that? A. Yes, I do. Q. When you review it, you can have an opportunity to correct the transcript; however, if you make any corrections to the transcript, I can comment on any changes that you may make later on, so we ask that you give your best testimony today. Do you understand that? A. Yes, I do. Q. You need to avoid unintelligible responses such as nods of the head, "huh-uh," and "uh-huh," as the reporter will not be able to pick those up. . Do you understand that? A. Yes, I do. Q. Is there any reason we cannot proceed today? Are you under any kind of medication or disability that would prevent you from giving us your best testimony today? A. No. Q. I'd like to get some education background from you starting with high school. Where did you attend? A. I went to Bishop Amat High School. Q. That's in Orange County? A. No, it's in L.A. County, La Puente. 8 2 (Pages 5 to 8) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLIF 'ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. What year did you get your high school degree? 1 2 A. 1966. 2 3 Q. And what did you do after high school in terms of 3 4 education? 4 5 A. Went to Cal State L.A., got my Bachelor's degree 5 6 there and did my graduate work at Cal State Fresno. 6 7 Q. Now, were you in the military? 7 8 A. No. 8 9 Q. What year did you get your Bachelor's at 9 10 Cal State L.A.? 10 11 A. 1971. 11 12 Q. What was it in? 12 13 A. Public administration. 13 14 Q. And you said you did graduate work at Cal State 14 15 Fresno? 15 16 A. That, I didn't finish. 16 17 Q. How many years? 17 18 A. Two years 18 19 Q. What years did you attend? 19 20 A. '74 through '76. 20 21 Q. What did you do between 71 and 74? 21 22 A. I was employed part-time in 1971, and 1972 became 22 23 full-time with the City of West Covina. 23 24 Q. What did you do for West Covina, very briefly? 24 25 A. I was an analyst in the City Manager's office. 25 9 1 Q. Okay. After you left Cal State Fresno in about 1 2 1976, did you take full-time employment? 2 3 A. I was working hull -time while I was working at 3 4 Cal State Fresno. 4 5 Q. Where did you work? 5 6 A. I was with the City of Madera. 6 7 Q. What did you do for Madera? 7 8 A. I was assistant to the manager. 8 9 Q. What years were you with the City of Madera? 9 10 A. '73 through '76. 10 11 Q. What did you do after that? 11 12 A. January of 1977, I went to the City of Coronado 12 13 as the Director of Administrative Services. 13 14 Q. How long were you with Coronado? 14 15 A. I was there two years as the Director of 15 16 Administrative Services, and in '79 I became the City 16 17 Manager of Coronado. --- 17 18 Q. How long were you the City Manager of the City of 18 19 Coronado? 19 20 A. Untr71987. 20 21 Q. What did you do in '87? 21 22 A. I became the Director of Planning for the County 22 23 of San Diego. 23 24 Q. How long were you the Director of Planning for 24 25 the County of San Diego? 25 10 A. About a year and a hall, then I went to City of Oakland as City Manager. Q. How long were you at the City of Oakland as the City Manager? A. Two ye2m Q. Then what did you do? A. I went to the City of Huntington Beach. Q. What year did you come to Huntington Beach? A. 1991. Q. When you started with the City of Huntington Beach, what did you start as? A. I was the Assistant City Administrator. Q. You moved around a lot. A. I'm hopefully done with that. Q. Besides your driver's license, do you have any licenses issued by the State of California? A. No. Q. Have you ever had any licenses issued by the State of Califomia other than your driver's license? A. No. Q. When you came to the City of Huntington Beach in 1991, who was your supervisor? A. Mike Ubernaga. Q. Please spell the last name. A. U-b-e-r-a-a-g-a. He was the City Admmisdster. 11 Q. For how long did you serve as the Assistant City Administrator? A. From '91 to November of '97. Q. And when you were the Assistant City Administrator, what were your duties? A. Generalist with some focus on development issues. Q. Did you say "journalist" or "generalist"? A. Generalist with some focus on development issues. Q. Now, from 1991 to November 1997, was your immediate supervisor continuously Mike Uberuaga? A. Yes. Q. Did Mr. Uberuaga leave the City in November of 1997? A. Yes. Q. And did you take over the position of City Administrator? A. Yes. Q. And you've been the City Administrator for the City of Huntington Beach since November of 1997 to the present day, which is July, 2000? A. Yes. Q. Do you share the position of City Administrator with anyone? A. No. Q. Do you hold any other titles other than the City 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 12 3 (Pages 9 to 12) 1 Administrator for the City of Huntington Beach? 1 2 A. Executive Director of the Redevelopment Agency 2 3 for the City of Huntington Beach. 3 4 Q. How long have you held that title? 4 5 A. Since November of 1997. 5 6 Q. Who was the previous Executive Director of the 6 7 Redevelopment Agency of the City of Huntington Beach? 7 8 A. Mike Uberuaga. 8 9 Q. What are the duties of the City Administrator? 9 10 A. To serve at the pleasure of Council and managing 10 11 the day -today operations of the City. 11 12 Q. Can you be more specific? 12 13 A. All the functions of the City of Huntington Beach 13 14 report to me except for the City Cleric, City Attorney, and 14 15 City Treasurer functions, which have elected department 15 16 heads. 16 17 Q. City Clerk, City Attorney — 17 18 A. And City Treasurer. 18 19 Q. You mean, you run everything from the garbage to 19 20 the roads? 20 21 A. Everybody reports to me, but those three 21 22 functions, that provide services for the City of 22 23 Huntington Beach. 23 24 Q. Who is your immediate supervisor? 24 25 A. The City Council. 25 13 1 Q. Your position is appointed; is that correct? 1 2 A. Yes. 2 3 Q. Now, who is your right-hand man or right-hand 3 4 person, as it were? 4 5 A. The Assistant City Administrator. 5 6 Q. Who is that? 6 7 A. That's vacant. Melanie Fallon left in May of 7 8 this year to go to the City of Long Beach, so it's 8 9 presently vacant. 9 10 Q. What is her new position with the City of 10 11 Long Beach? 11 12 A. Director of Community Development. 12 13 Q. Melanie Fallon held the position of Assistant 13 14 City Administrator for how long prior to May of 2000? 14 15 A. From October of'98 till May of 2000. 15 16 Q. What were her duties? 16 17 A.. She oversaw all the development issues for me, 17 18 and the department heads related to that area reported to 18 19 her. 19 20 Q. Did Melanie Fallon have any contact with the 20 21 Huntington Center shopping center? 21 22 A. What do you mean, in terms of development 22 23 issues? 23 24 Q. Yes. 24 25 A. Yes. 25 14 RAY SILVEP., 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q. Good. Who else was in your City Administrator office directly under your supervision besides Melanie Fallon? A. There's a Director of Communications. Q. Who was that? A. Rich Barnard. Q. And who else? A. And a Director of Organizational Effectiveness. Q. What was that again? A. It's a long one, huh? Director of Organizational Effectiveness. He's in charge of all the organizational development in the City. Q. I need one of those. And that person's name is? A. Clay Martin. Q. Okay. Do Clay Martin or Richard Barnard have anything to do with the development issues or anything related to the Huntington Center? A. No. Q. Is there anyone else that you directly supervise in the City Administrator's office? A. No. Q. Okay. You mentioned before that you are also the Executive Director of the Redevelopment Agency for the City of Huntington Beach. What are your duties in that capacity? 15 A. To serve at the pleasure of the Redevelopment Agency Board of Directors, to oversee the Redevelopment Program of the City of Huntington Beach. Q. What do you have to do on — on a day -today basis? Would you say that most of your time is devoted to City Administrator or being the Executive Director? A. Well, until Melanie left, I would say I had almost nothing to do with development issues. When she left, I was, you know, trying to keep things together until there's a new assistant. Q. Has a new assistant been hired? A. Not till November. Q. You have one for November? A. No, it will be vacant probably till November. I'm recruiting right now, and it's nationwide. It takes about six months. Q. Now, when you say you oversee the Redevelopment Agency, what do you mean? What does that mean? What do you do? A. If I had an assistant, it means mainly I talk with her, and she takes care of the issues with me. With that position vacant, I'm a little more involved in terms of getting some sense of what's going on. I would say it's a small portion of my overall job. Q. With respect to being the Redevelopment Agency, 16 4 (Pages 13 to 16) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLIR ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 City of Huntington Beach Executive Director, besides you and the Assistant City Administrator, which position is now vacant, are there any other Government employees, City of Huntington Beach employees, besides the Economic Development Department that work directly for and report to the — report to the Redevelopment Agency? A. When the assistant position is vacant or when it's tilled? Q. Except for your position and the assistant position. A. Ask the question again, I'm sorry. Q. No problem. Besides you and the assistant, do they have other people working for them? Does the Redevelopment Agency -- A. There is a department that handles redevelopment on a day-to-day. basis. I think that's your question. Q. Whose department is that? A. That's David Biggs, Department of Economic Development. Q. What is your relationship with David Biggs in terms of the hierarchy? A. Well, with the Assistant City Administrator position filled, he reports to me through the Assistant City Administrator. Q. Are you higher on the City hierarchy than 17 David Biggs? A. Yes. Q. Are you higher on the City hierarchy than Mr. Zelefsky? A. Yes. Q. Who is Mr. Zelefsky? A. He's the Planning Director. Q. Okay. Are you the highest City official that is not elected? A. Yes. Q. And you have the power to tell Mr. Biggs what to do? A. Yes. Q. And you have the power to tell Mr. Zelefsky what to do? A. Yes Q. And who tells you what -to do? A. City council: Q. And City Council also is the Board of the Redevelopment Agency? A. Yes Q. It's one and the same. There's no additional people? A. * Yes, same people serve both corporations, yes. Q. Okay. Now, in your capacity as the City 18 1 Administrator, do you hire attorneys? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Okay. Who does the hiring of attorneys? 4 , A. The City Attorney is elected. 5 Q. Okay. That's Gail Hutton? 6 A. Yes. 7 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. I'm going to ask the 8 reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit — we had 13 9 before. Let's make this 14. This is the Notice of Taking 10 Deposition of Ray Silver. 11 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 14 was marked 12 for identification by the court 13 reporter and is attached hereto.) 14 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 15 Q. And the question is: Have you ever seen 16 Exhibit 14 before, which is the Notice of Taking Deposition 17 of Ray Silver? 18 A. I don't recall getting it. 19 Q. Do you recall the Subpoena, which — receiving 20 the Subpoena which was attached to it? 21 A. I don't think that was sent to me directly. 22 Q. Okay. Do you — did you prepare any documents in 23 response to the Notice of Deposition? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did you request that someone prepare documents on 19 your behalf? A. Since I received the deposition? Q. Yes. A. No. Q. Do you maintain any files in your office which pertain to the Redevelopment Agency? A. No. Q. You maintain files in your office that pertain to your duties as a City Administrator? 10 A. Correct. I 1 Q. When you get a piece of paper that pertains to 12 the Redevelopment Agency and your functions as a director, 13 what do you do with it? 14 A. Well, it depends what it ks If it's a document 15 to sign, I sign it, it goes back oat. If it's a notice of 16 something just to let me know what's going on. it may go in 17 the trash can. If it's something I want other people to 18 know about, I'll send it out through my executive assistant 19 to get it to other people, and I keep a minimum number of 20 pieces of paper in my ot'fice, assuming somebody else has 21 it. So I keep it in my office. 22 Q. Do you have any files which pertain to the 23 Huntington Center in your office? 24 A. No. 25 Q. You mentioned you have an executive assistant; JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 20 5 (Pages 17 to 20) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is that a secretary? A. Yes. Q. What's that person's name? A. Patt , P-a-t-t-i; Fogarty, F-o-g-a-r-t-y. Q. How long has Patti Fogarty been with you? A. Me? Q. How long has Patti Fogarty been your executive assistant as Assistant Administrator? A. Since November of '97. Q. Have you had any other clerical staff working with you as the City Administrator? A. Yes. Q. Who? A. Joan Flynn, F-I-y-n-m Q. Is she still with the City? A. Yes. Yes. Q. And what is her title? A. She's Administrative Assistant- Q. Any other administrative assistants or clerical help? A. No. Q. Now, Fogarty and Flynn, they work with you but purely in a clerical sense? A. Yes. Q. Do they maintain files pertaining to the 21 Redevelopment Agency? A. I don't know. Q. Do you keep a regular journal or memos of your activities as the Executive Director? A. No. Q. Are you aware if Miss Fallon kept notes or a regular diary of her duties? A. I don't know. Q. Now, Miss Fallon, she left -- why did she leave the City? A. A better job. Q. Okay. Did you assist in -- even though you didn't produce the documents, did anybody ask you if you had documents? A. No. Q. Did you assist in the preparation of any type of documents responsive to the Subpoenas? A. No. Q. Okay. If I told you some documents have been withheld and not provided, you would not know anything about that? A. Correm Q. Okay. Were you involved in closed sessions in 1999 which pertained to the redevelopment of the Huntington Center? 22 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A. Yes 2 Q. Okay. And do you know how many of those closed 3 sessions there were? 4 A. I have no idea. 5 Q. Pardon me? 6 A. No, I don't. 7 Q. Was there more than three? 8 A. Specifically related to Huntington Center? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. I don't recall if there were more than three. It 11 was probably around three. I don't recall the number. 12 Q. Do you know who was present at any of those 13 meetings? 14 A. Yes 15 Q. Who was present? 16 A. City Council, Director of Economic Development, 17 legal counsel, and most of the time probably the Director 18 of Planning. 19 Q. And the - why don't you take a look at 20 Exhibit 6. 21 MR. TUCHMAN: Do you guys have Exhibit 6 in front 22 of you? Were these the exhibits the witness had before? 23 Yeah. Here's a new Exhibit 6. 24 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 25 Q. This is an excerpt of the Minutes from 11/13/99 23 1 second paragraph. Do you recognize Exhibit 6? 2 A. Yes, I do. 3 Q. Okay. Exhibit 6 are Minutes from 4 Counsel/Redevelopment Agency Minutes, 11/15/99. 5 A. Correct 6 Q. Do you know what occurred at that closed session 7 meeting? 8 A. I know there was general discussion about 9 negotiations on the Huntington Center and Ezralow 10 Corporation. 11 Q. Are you aware of any promises that were made to 12 Ezralow relative to financial assistance or assistance of 13 any kind that would be provided to Ezralow in the event 14 they close escrow? 15 MR. TEPPER: Objection as to time. Are we 16 talking about this meeting? 17 MR. TUCHMAN: Yes. 18 THE WITNESS: I don'trecall what was said in 19 that meeting other than the fact we generally talked about 20 Huntington Center. 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 22 Q. Okay. At any time were you aware of any 23 commitments or assurances made by the Redevelopment Agency 24 to Ezralow in the event they purchased the property? 25 A. I don't recall there being any promises to them 24 6 (Pages 21 to 24) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.2S.00 BURLIN� . ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 to date. 2 Q. When's the first time you heard about Burlington 3 Coat Factory? 4 A. When they first moved into the Huntington 5 Center. That's not true. They were across the street 6 before. Probably whenever they moved into the Edinger 7 Corridor. 8 Q. Have you ever had any conversations with anyone 9 from Ezralow or Huntington Center Associates or their 10 attorneys pertaining to Burlington Coat Factory? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. How many times? 13 A. Gera, I don't know how many times. 14 Q. More than a dozen? 15 A. No, I doubt it was more than a dozen. 16 Q. Okay. Can you remember any of those 17 conversations individually? 18 A. Partially. 19 Q. Okay. When was the first one? 20 A. I partially remember generally what was 21 discussed. I couldn't tell you every date, every meeting. 22 Q. What was discussed? 23 A. Whether or not Burlington would be part of the 24 center or not. 25 Q. And what was Ezralow's response? 25 1 A. They hadn't made op their mind at that point. 2 Q. Do you know what point that was? 3 A. I don't recall when that was. 4 Q. Okay. And what was the response from you 5 relative to Burlington's involvement? 6 A. Basically, that it was up to the major property 7 owner to determine the appropriate retail mix. 8 Q. Is it up to the Redevelopment Agency of the City 9 of Huntington Beach as to who is going to be in the tenant 10 mix? 11 A. From a practical or legal point of view? 12 Q. From any point of view. 13 A. Ask the question again, please. 14 Q. Is it up to the Redevelopment Agency of the City 15 of Huntington Beach to determine who is going to be a 16 tenant at the center? 17 MR. TEPPER: I think that s a little ambiguous. 18 1 think the witness has expressed a concern as to whether 19 the Agency has the legal ability to determine whether or 20 not that's economically -viable. So if you'll break that 21 down into terms of what you really want. 22 THE WITNESS: Sure. 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 24 Q. The question is: As we sit here right now, is it, 25 up to the Redevelopment Agency, "Burlington you're in; 1 Burlington you're out"? 2 A. Obviously, we're going to look to the primary 3 property owner, to listen to them first, to listen to what 4 they think is an appropriate mix of retail. We're not the 5 experts on the retail mhL 6 Q. Would it be a fair statement if I was the Ezralow 7 attorney to say, "It's not up to us whether Burlington 8 stays or not, it's up to the Agency"? 9 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Hypothetical. 10 Incomplete hypothetical. Calls for speculation. 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 12 Q. You can answer. 13 MR. TEPPER: If you have an answer. 14 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I'm song. Would you ask 15 the question again? I'm song. 16 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 Q. I most certainly will. 18 A. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead. 19 MR. TUCHMAN: Please read the question back. 20 Thank you. 21 (Whereupon the previous question was read 22 back by the court reporter as requested.) 23 THE WITNESS: I guess they can say whatever they 24 believe is their position, I guess. 25 /// 27 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 Q. But is that the position of the Agency? 3 A. Well, is that the position of the Agency? 4 MR. SHIPOW: Same objections. 5 THE WITNESS: Again, obviously we're looking to 6 the major property owner to see what they think is a 7 successful retail center. 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: ' 9 Q. So as we sit here right now, it's not up to the 10 Development Agency to determine one way or the other if t 1 Burlington is a proper tenant to be in the mix? 12 MR. SHIPOW: Argumentative. Misstates the 13 testimony. 14 MR. TEPPER: You can answer, if you understand. 15 THE WITNESS: Again, legally the Agency obviously 16 has some authority, but whether or not it exercises it is a 17 practical question. We're trying to listen to the property 18 owner at this point. 19 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 Q. Okay. And when you say ultimately you may have 21 the power, you mean an imminent domain decision, which is 22 somewhere down the line? 23 A. It's in the realm of possibilities. 24 Q. Okay. Has the Redevelopment Agency anywhere said 25 in writing or verbally, to your knowledge, "We don't want 28 7 (Pages 25 to 28) JILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 Burlington Coat Factory to be at the shopping center"? 2 A. I don't know of anywhere where we've said that in 2 3 writing... 3 4 Q. What about verbally? 4 5 A. I don't know where we said that verbally as an 5 6 agency. 6 7 Q. Okay. You, as the City Administrator and as the 7 8 Executive Director of the City of Huntington Beach 8 9 Redevelopment Agency, do you have a preference one way or 9 10 the other as to whether Burlington should be or should not 10 11 be in the center? 11 12 A. I think it's premature. _ 12 13 Q. You mentioned that you had conversations with, 1 13 14 think, the Ezralow people. I want to go back to those 14 15 conversations. What else was said in those conversations? 15 16 A. I think generally we were talking about what the 16 17 center might look like. You know, they had some 17 18 illustrations — list of drawings of an Italian concept. 18 19 We talked about that. We talked about generally the niche 19 20 in the market that might — if it's possible with all the 20 21 other malls around. That's about it. 21 22 Q. What other conversations did you have with any of 22 23 the Ezralow representatives regarding Burlington? 23 24 A. Just basically that they'll have to determine, 24 25 based upon the retail mix they want to ultimately achieve, 25 29 I if it's in the mix. 1 2 Q. Did Ezralow ask your help as the Executive 2 3 Director of the Redevelopment Agency of the City of 3 4 Huntington Beach, ask your help in connection with the 4 5 lawsuits they've been involved in with Burlington? 5 6 A. We haven't talked about the lawsuits. I haven't 6 7 talked about the lawsuits. 7 8 Q. 1 want you to take a look at Exhibit 7. Make 8 9 sure you have 7 in front of you. This is Exhibit 7 here. 9 10 A. Sure. 10 11 MR. TUCHMAN: For the record, Exhibit 7 is the 11 12 June 5, 2000, one -page memo to Howard Zelefsky from Ray 12 13 Silver. 13 14 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 15 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 7?-- 15 16 A. - Yea, I do, 16 17 Q. What is Exhibit 7? 17 18 A. It's a memorandum from me to Howard Zelefsky, the 18 19 Director of Plantain& 19 20 Q. Who typed it? 20 21 A. I don't know who typed it. 21 22 Q. Did you author it? 22 23 A. No. 23 24_ Q. Somebody authored it for you? 24 25 A. Yes. 25 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q. Who authored it for you? A. I don't know. Q. Did Mr. Kane author it? A. I don't know who authored it. Q. Is the first time you saw this memo, was that on Wednesday, June 7, 2000? MR. TEPPER: June 7? THE WITNESS: I don't recall what date I first saw it. I just simply know it came in my office to be signed, and I initialed it. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Who brought it into your office? A. It was in my "in" basket when I came back from a meeting, and it was in the rde to sign W Q. What did you do -- and these are your initials on Exhibit 7; is that right? A. Yes, that's "R.R.&" That's me. Q. When you signed the memo, did you know what you were signing? A. I wasn't sure. Q. Okay. Did anybody tell you who typed up this memo? A. No, nobody told me this was coming to my office. Q. And when you signed it, do you remember signing it the day it was dated or you signed it a couple days 31 later? A. I know I signed it the day it came to my office. I don't know what day that was. Q. Do you know if it was back -dated? A. Again, I don't remember what day I signed it. So, you know, I don't know if I signed it on June 5th, and it was not back -dated. I don't know if it was June 5th I signed it. Q. Is it possible you signed Exhibit 7 on Wednesday, June 7th? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. THE WITNESS: You know, I don't recall the day I signed it. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Is it possible it was back -dated? MR. TEPPER: Objection. MR. SHIPOW: Objection. THE WITNESS: I had no reason to believe it was back -dated. i didn't think about it then and 1 don't think about it now. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. After you initialed Exhibit 7, what did you do with it? A. I put it in the "out" basket for my executive assistant to give it to whoever it needed to go to, which 32- 8 (Pages 29 to 32) IILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLIN ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 was Howard Zelefsky. 1 Q. Who told you that? 2 Q. And do you know if it was delivered to 2 A. I don't recall who told me that. 3 Howard Zelefsky? 3 Q. Were you aware that the document that you 4 A. Yeah. I'm pausing because I don't know when it 4 initialed was to be filed with a declaration of 5 was delivered to him. I know he got it. I know that. 1 5 Mr. Zelefsky? 6 didn't really track it, to be honest, after that. 6 A. No, I was not. 7 Q. You tracked it in the past few days though? 7 Q. Were you aware that this memo was prepared for 8 A. No, I haven't tracked in the past few days. 8 the Ezralow/Burlington litigation? 9 Q. Did you make a decision who the CCs would go to? 9 A. No, I was not. 10 10 Q. Did anybody tell you that? 11 A. No. This was typed for me, and I just pat my 11 A. No. 12 initials on it. 12 Q. Are you aware of the effect of Exhibit 7 on the 13 Q. Did you review any drafts of Exhibit 7? 13 litigation? 14 A. No. 14 A. Somewhat now. 15 Q. Did you -- I'm sorry. 15 Q. What happened? 16 A. I just saw it in final formin my ofllce. 16 A. Well, as I understand — 17 Q. Did you pick up the phone and ask anybody about 17 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. May call for 18 Exhibit 7? 18 attorney/client privilege. 19 A. No. I went down to Planning and I asked 19 BYAR. TUCHMAN: 20 Howard Zelefsky why I was getting this. He said, "It's 20 Q. You can answer. 21 just standard that the City has the ability to initiate a 21 MR. TEPPER: Well, no, if he got it from an 22 zone change," so it was no big deal. 22 attorney -- and I know you didn't get it from me -- but if 23 Q. It was in your "in" box, you saw it, and before 23 you did get it from an attorney -- 24 you signed it, you went down to — 24 THE WITNESS: I don't know who. i know this 25 A. Yes. 25 caused some consternation on behalf of Burlington based on 33 35 1 Q. -- Zelefsky? 1 some communication 1 saw after this memo went somewhere. 2 A. Yes. 2 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 3 Q. What caused you to go down there? 3 Q. Just a few letters. 4 A. Well, it didn't seem like a big deal to do a memo 4 A. You were —or did one of you speak at Council 5 on it because I knew the City had authority to initiate 5 chambers after that? 6 zone changes. It seemed like standard practice. 6 Q. let's take a look at this memo. 7 Q. So when you went down there, what did you say to 7 A. Sure. 8 him? 8 Q. Do you recognize the fax legend at the top of 9 A. I said, "Howard, how come I'm being asked to sign 9 Exhibit 7? 10 this memo?" He says he's not sure, but it's all right 10 A. The fax legend? 11 because it's standard practice for the City to initiate 11 Q. Yes. 12 zone changes. 12 A. F-a-x, you mean? 13 Q. Were you aware at the time you were asked to sign 13 Q. Yes. From the City of H.B. Community Development 14 this memo that there was litigation ongoing between the 14 Department, Fax No., (714) 374-1540, June 7th, 2000, at 15 Ezralow entities and Burlington? 15 1:41. 16 A. I don't recall what was going on at that time in 16 Do you recognize this legend? 17 terms of the specific legal actions going on between any 17 A. I recognize what it says. 18 parties,.. 18 Q. That's the fax number of the Huntington Beach 19 Q. Were you aware that there was at the time a 19 Community Development Department; is that right? 20 pending application fora Temporary Restraining Order 20 A. Could be. I don't fax anything. I don't know 21 brought by Burlington against Firalow? 21 what their number is, to be honest with you. 22 A. 1 don't recall knowing that. 22 Q. Do you know why this was faxed out the afternoon 23 Q. Okay. Did anybody tell you that? . 23 of June 7th? 24 A. I don't recall when someone might have told me. 24 A. No,1 don't. 25 1 don't know if it was after, before, or when it was. 25 Q. Did you determine — I'm looking at Exhibit 8 34 1 36 9 (Pages 33 to 36) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 now. It should be in your pages here. Did you go and find I 1 2 the original application to establish a new Specific 2 3 Plan 13? 3 4 A. Did I go look for it? 4 5 Q. Yeah. 5 6 A. I don't recall going to look for it. 6 7 Q. Did you ask anybody why you were changing the 7 8 applicant? 8 9 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 9 10 document. Mischaracterizes the testimony. There's been no 10 11 testimony that there's been any change. 11 12 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Ask the question again. 12 13 MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back, please. 13 14 (Whereupon the previous question was read 14 15 back by the court reporter as requested.) 15 16 THE WITNESS: I don't recall if I did that. 16 17 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 18 Q. Okay. I want to take a look at the language in 18 19 here. 19 20 A. You're back at the memo? 20 21 Q. Yes. Thank you. It says, "As required by the 21 22 City of Huntington Beach General Planning, adoption of a 22 23 specific plan is necessary to establish zoning and 23 24 development standards for the 63 acre Huntington Center 24 25 property." 25 37 1 Do you see that? 1 2 A. Yes, I do. 2 3 Q. Were you aware of those facts as of June 5th, 3 4 2000? 4 5 A. Yes. 5 6 Q. Okay. And those are true facts as of June. 7, 6 7 2000? 7 8 MR. TEPPER: Excuse me? 8 9 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 10 Q. Those are true facts as of June 7, 2000? 10 11 MR. TEPPER: I thought you just talked to him 11 12 about June 5th. I thought you just asked him the date of 12 13 the memorandum. l3 14 MR. TUCHMAN: You can ask whatever questions you 14 15 want to ask. — 15 16 MR. TEPPER: No, I want that original question 16 17 read back. 17 18 MR. TUCHMAN: Oh, I definitely said June 7th. 18 19, THE WUNESS: I.et me clarify that then. 19 20 MR. TEPPER: The first time I heard it, I heard 20 21 June 5th. The second time, I'm now hearing June 7th. 21 22 MR. TUCHMAN: Absolutely. 22 23 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat the question? I'm 23 24 sorry. 24 25 /// 25 38 RAY SILVER, 07.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Well start again, okay? A. Okay. Sure. Q. Was it true as of June 7, 2I100, that as required by the City of Huntington Beach General Planning, adoption of a specific plan is necessary to establish zoning and development standards for the 63-acre Huntington Center property? A. I think it's true as of any date, yeah. 1 Q. The next sentence, "The specific plan allows the unique design and architectural guidelines to govern future development of the site." That was true as of June 5 or June 7? A. Correct. Q. And you knew that as of June 7, 2000? A. True. Q. Okay. And the last sentence of the first paragraph, "Adoption of the specific plan requires processing of a zoning map amendment and zoning text amendment." Were you aware of that as of June 7th, 2000? A. Yes. Q. Eventually -- as of June 5, 2000, was there an approval of the amendment to the specific plan by way of a zoning map amendment and zoning text amendment? 39 A. As of what date? Q. As of June 5th. A. I don't tecaU what date that came before the Council, because that would have been the approval. I don't know what date that was. Q. I think it was July 5th, 2000. Does that sound right to you? A. Sure. Q. Okay. Now, "The Ezralow Company" -- I'm reading on -- "is the property owner of the majority of the site, while Montgomery Ward's owns approximately 13 acres and Southern California Edison Company retains ownership beneath the high tension wires on the north side of the property." Were you aware of this as of June 5, 2000? A. Yes. Q. You were personally aware of that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Next -- A. Well, let me clarify that. I wasn't aware that Ward's has 13 acres. I mean, we talked about 13 acres. To this date, I'm not sure if 13 acres is the correct amount of acres Montgomery Ward's has. Q. Okay. To this day, are you aware of the -- is Burlington Coat Factory an owner at the shopping center, as 40 10 (Pages 37 to 40) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.2S.00 SURLIW_ d'ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 far as you know? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous as to what you mean by the term "owner." THE WITNESS: It's my understanding they have a lease. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. What kind of lease, do you know? A. Just a lease between them and the major property owner, Ezralow. Q. Is it considered an owner under your OPA rules? A. I don't know. Q. Okay. Do you know what year the lease ends? A. I know nothing about the lease document. I never saw it. I don't know what's in there. Q. Okay. The next sentence, "Although an application for a zone change was submitted by Ezralow on March 30th," and we saw that in Exhibit 8 -- by the way, did you know this was a fact, "Although an application for a zone change was submitted by the Ezralow Company on March 30th, 2000"? A. No, I didn't know that at the time. Q. "It is more appropriate for the City and the Redevelopment Agency to be designated as actual applicants for the proposal because the initial plan is a City -initiated project." 41 Was that yoitr conclusion as of June 5, 2000? A. Well, I initialed the memo. That answers that. Q. You didn't come up with this conclusion, yourself, "It is more appropriate for the City and the Redevelopment Agency to be designated at actual applicants"? MR. TEPPER: I think that's a misstatement of his testimony. So why don't you ask him the question directly. MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back. (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: Obviously, by my signing the memo, I trusted that whoever prepared the memo was accurate_ in their preparation of this memo. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. But we don't know who prepared the memo; right? A. I don't Q. Did you ever find out who prepared it? A. I never did. To be honest, I never tried to track it down. Q. You never asked? A. No. Q. Now I'm talking June 5, 2000. Was that your opinion as of that day? A. I guess it is since I initialed the memo. 42 1 Q. The immediate split second before you initialed 2 it, did you independently come up with the thought, the 3 idea, that it is more appropriate for the City and the 4 Redevelopment Agency to be designated as actual applicants 5 for the proposal because the specific plan is a 6 City -initiated project? 7 MR. TEPPER: It misstates his testimony..I think 8 he said he went down to talk to Howard Zelefsky. 9 MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back. 10 (Whereupon the previous question was read 11 back by the court reporter as requested.) 12 THE WITNESS: No, I did not independently come up 13 with this. 14 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 15 Q. Next, 'Therefore, this memo and my signature, as 16 City Administrator and Executive Director of the 17 Redevelopment Agency of the City of Huntington Beach, serve 18 as application authorization for the processing of Zoning 19 Map Amendment No. 00-01 and Zoning Text Amendment 20 No. 00-02 (Specific Plan No. 13}" 21 When you signed and authorized this change, you 22 signed the memo in from of you, you didn't, as a City 23 Administrator and the Executive Director of the 24 Redevelopment Agency, independently come up with this 25 necessity? 43 1 MR. TEPPER: Objection. Mischaracterization of 2 the word "change." I think the testimony has been 3 otherwise. 4 MR. TUCHMAN: Give him the question back. 5 (Whereupon the previous question was read 6 back by the court reporter as requested.) 7 THE WITNESS: I didn't come up with it 8 independently, no. 9 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 10 Q. Okay. Next, it says, "Please update the Planning 11 Department records to this effect." 12 In addition for you to update the Planning 13 records, you didn't come up with that independently either? 14 A. No, I did not. 15 Q. Do you know why this memo was CCed to the Mayor 16 and the City Council members? 17 A. I think it's standard operating procedure for 18 these different parties to get copies of things like this. 19 Q. Do you know why Mr. Biggs was CCed? 20 A. Because he represents the agency and the agency 21 was a party to this memo. 22 Q. Did you speak with Mr. Biggs regarding this memo, 23 ever? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. When? . 44 11 (Pages 41 to 44) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 A. Sometime after you spoke at the Council meeting 1 2 and brooks started over this whole thing. 2 3 Q. Brooha, huh? 3 4 A. Yak. 4 5 Q. What did you ask him? 5 6 A. I asked him if it was really necessary for this 6 7 memo to be done since it's standard operating procedure for 7 8 the City to initiate changes. 8 9 Q. What did he say? 9 10 A. He said, "It's just form," l0 t 1 Q. And how did you respond? 11 12 A. "Fine." 12 13 Q. Did you have a conversation with any of the 13 14 Planning Commission members prior to -- between June IS and _ 14 15 June 20, 2000, regarding Exhibit 7, the June 5, 2000, memo? 15 16 A. No. 16 17 Q. Did you have any conversations with any of the 17 18 Planning commissioners regarding your memo and why you 18 19 signed it? 19 20 A. I don't recall any. 20 21 Q. Did you say to Mr. Biggs that you were upset that 21 22 this memo was given to you to sign? 22 23 A. Did I say I was upset? I think — no, I didn't 23 24 say that. 24 25 Q. You said words to that effect? 25 45 1 A. I said why bother to send this memo if it was 1 2 standard operating procedure to make zone changes initiated 2 3 by the City. 3 4 Q. You expressed to Mr. Biggs that you were unhappy 4 5 that you had signed Exhibit 7; isn't that correct? 5 6 A. Well, there's a difference between ftnstrated and 6 7 unhappy. I'll say I was unhappy about signing it. 7 8 Q. Okay. And why were you unhappy about signing it? 8 9 A. Because it seemed unnecessary if — because we 9 10 can normally just process zone changes as the City. So why 10 t t go through a special memo and do that. 11 12 Q. Are you aware of any requirements under the 12 13 Zoning and Ordinance provisions of the City of 13 14 Huntington Beach whereby the City and the Redevelopment 14 15 Agency must make a formal motion to -become the applicant? 15 16 A. I don't recall any section that says that 16 17 Q. Okay. Are you aware today, as you sit here 17 18 today, that a motion should have been filed to do this? 18 19 MR. TEPPER: Assumes a legal fact and is 19 20 incorrect. 20 21 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware of any motion that 21 22 would have to be made. 22 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 24 Q. Are you aware of any requirement before you would 24 25 authorize Exhibit 7 that there has to be public notice of 25 46 RAY SILVER, 07.2S.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER this agency? A. I'm not aware of any. Q. Were you aware -- were you at the Planning Commission meeting where Mr. -- Commissioner Biddle advised that this action was improperly noticed? A. No. Q. Were you aware that he made those comments? A. I read it in the paper. Q. Okay. And what's your reaction to that? A. Well, I think be said it was unethical, but I don't think it's unethical. Q. That the June 5, 2000, memo, which is Exhibit 7, was unethical? A. That's what the newspaper reported he said, yes. Q. You also had some other words that you discussed with Mr. Biggs in addition to being upset with Exhibit 7 -- MR. TEPPER: Mischaracterizes his testimony. MR. TUCHMAN: The June 5, 2000 — you need to let me finish the question. MR. TEPPER: You had already mischaracterized his testimony. MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. Thank you. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. What other words did you use to describe your feelings on it? 47 A. I don't recall any other feelings. Q. Did you talk to Mr. Zelefsky about this memo? A. As I indicated, I talked to him before I signed it to understand why I was signing this memo. Q. Did you talk to him after? A. I don't recall if I did or not. Q. Did you ask that the City Council retroactively approve your June 5, 2000, memo -- or the memo you actually initialed? Sorry. MR. TEPPER: Retroactively approve? MR. TUCHMAN: Yes. MR. TEPPER: That's ambiguous. Please -- if the witness understands it. THE WITNESS: I think the agenda item called an RCA, said -- asked Counsel to ratify, I believe, the decision I made, and I think on one of the RCAs, they did pick that motion to ratify action. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. What's an RCA? A. Request for Counsel Action. It's an agenda item format. Q. Right. And did you initiate that RCA? A. No. Q. How was that RCA initiated, if you know? A. Initiated by staff 48 '1 12 (Pages 45 to 48) IILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07,2S.00 BURLIN, , ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17, 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. And did you discuss Exhibit 7, the June 5. 2000, memo with staff? A. Well, as I indicated, I talked to Howard and I talked to David. Q. Any other staff members like Jane James, Herb Fauland, or Scott Hess? A. I don't recall talking to them about it. Q. Did you express -- did you speak to any of the Council members regarding your dissatisfaction with having to initial Exhibit 7, the June 5, 2000, memo? A. I don't recall doing that. Q. Did you express your dissatisfaction or unhappiness to anyone other than Mr. Biggs regarding your having to initial Exhibit 7, the June 5, 2000, memo? A. I don't recall saying anything to anybody else. Q. When did you first become aware of the litigation between Burlington Coat Factory and Ezralow and the Ezralow-related entities? A. I don't recall. I don't know if it's when you came up or I read it in the paper. I don't recall when I first saw it. Q. Wasn't it prior to June 5th, 2000, that you became aware that there was litigation between Burlington and Ezralow? A. I don't recall. 49 Q. Did you know at the time you initialed Exhibit 7, the June 5, 2000, memo that there was litigation ongoing? A. I don't recall if I did or not, Q. Have you discussed the matter with Mr. James Hughes? A. James Hughes? Q. Yes. A. Who is James Hughes? MR. SHIPOW: That answers that question. THE WITNESS: Yeah, I don't know who that is. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Have you ever discussed the June 5th, 2000 -- dated June 5th, 2000, memo, which is Exhibit 7, with any attorneys for Ezralow? A. I don't recall if I did or not. Q. Were you ever asked to sign a declaration under penalty of perjury? A. No► You mean, related to this subject? Q. Yes. A. No. Q. Are you aware that anybody from the City has signed declarations under penalty of perjury? A. No, I'm not. Q. Did you speak to the Mayor about your June 5th, 2000, memo? 50 1 A. I don't recall if I did or not. 2 Q. The Mayor has made some comments about the 3 June 5, 2000, memo. .4 A. Really? 5 Q. You're not aware of them? 6 A. I don't know. What did he say? 7 Q. Okay. You wrote a subsequent memo regarding your 8 actions with respect to the June 7th memo; am I correct? 9 A. I wrote a memo subsequent to it? 10 Q. Yeah. 11 A. Regarding this? 12 Q. Yes. 13 A. I don't recall that I did. 14 Q. Or was a memo authored for you? 15 A. I don't recall if I did or not. 16 Q. I will get it out. 17 MR. TUCHMAN: Why don't we take a five-minute 18 break. I think you re waning a little. 19 THE WITNESS: It's not that. It's just 20 afternoon. I'm 51 years old now, so things start fading 21 sooner than they used to. 22 MR. TUCHMAN: You don't look older than 50. 23 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 24 MR. TUCHMAN: Take a walk. 25 (A brief recess was taken.) 51 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 Q. Now,1 want to go on and talk about some more 3 documents. Before I do that, did you have a conversation 4 with Mr. Biggs regarding the declaration he was submitting 5 in connection with the Ezralow/Burlington litigation? 6 A. I don't recall having any discussion with him 7 about a declaration. 8 Q. Did you have a discussion with Mr. Zelefsky 9 regarding the declaration he submitted? 10 A. I don't recall any discussions with Howard 11 either. 12 Q. Did you review any documents in preparation for 13 this deposition? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Have you had any direct contact with anyone from 16 Burlington Coat Factory? 17 MR. TEPPER: Hold it. Objection as to time. 18 When? 19 MR. TUCHMAN: Anytime. 20 THE WITNESS: No, other than buying clothes 21 there. 22 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 Q. So you're saying you're a customer then? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. 13 (Pages 49 to 52) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 MR. SHIPOW: That doesn't conflict him out. I Q. But do you recognize it at all? 2 THE WITNESS: I bought my jeans there. I bought 2 A. I don't recognize it. I see what it says, but -- 3 less than $250 of jeans there. 3 Q. Yeah. Do you have any idea what the "G" means? 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 4 A. I don't know what the "G" means. 5 Q. All right. Then we can continue. All right. 5 Q. Okay. "JM/crossing." Jane Madera is Jane James; 6 A. Maybe I should go buy a bunch of stuff and I'D 6 right? 7 be conflicted out 7 A. She is now, yeah. 8 Q. It's okay. 8 Q. Okay. This is from Jane Madera to 9 MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to ask the reporter to 9 Scott Dinovitz, June 7, 2000. "Please read the attached 10 mark for identification as Exhibit 15 -- I think we're on; 10 memo regarding applicant status for Specific Plan No. 13. 11 is that right, Mr. — 11 Please be aware that Ezralow is no longer considered as 12 MR. SHIPOW: I believe so, yes. 12 applicant for the zoning map and zoning text amendments. 13 MR. TUCHMAN: Yes. 13 Feel free to call me if you have any questions regarding 14 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 15 was marked 14 this issue." 15 for identification by the court 15 Have you ever seen this before? 16 reporter and is attached hereto.) 16 A. I don't recall ever seeing this before. 17 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 Q. Okay. All right. Do you know if this was faxed 18 Q. This was previously identified as Item 36, and 18 over to Council? 19 you may or may not recognize it. This is a cover sheet 19 A. You mean City Council? 20 dated June 7th, 2000, to Scott Dinovitz from Jane Madera, 20 Q. Yeah. 21 and then the June 5th memo is underneath it. It says -- 21 A. I don't recall Council getting that 22 take a look at the last page of the June 5th memo here. 22 Q. Now, did you ever talk to Jane James about 23 Do you recognize this computer reference, 23 your — about the June 5th, 2000, memo? 24 (G:jm/crossings/authorization)? 24 A. I may have once. 25 A. On here? 25 Q. When was that? - 53 1 55 1 Q. Yeah. 1 A. I think after I talked to Howard Zelefsky, before 2 A. The thing way down here? 2 I signed it 3 Q. The thing way down there, yes. 3 Q. What did you say to her? 4 A. Do I recognize it? 4 A. I said, "Jane, why am I signing this?" She said, 5 Q. Yeah. 5 "Because it's a standard practice for the City to initiate 6 A. As if I noticed it before, you mean? No. 6 zoning." 7 Q. Okay. As you look at it now, do you know what 7 Q. Does Jane James and Zelefsky work five days a 8 computer this was generated on? 8 week, Monday through Friday? 9 A. Not for sure. 9 A. I don't know if Jane James is on a flexed time 10 Q. Do you have any idea? 10 schedule or not 11 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. 11 Q. Okay. 12 THE WITNESS: I don't know what the "G" is. 12 A. Howard is five days a week. 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 Q. Okay. Are you on one of those flexed schedules, 14 Q. What's the "1M"? 14 or are you five days a week? 15 A. That could be Jane Madera but now she's 15 A. Management gets W work every day. 16 Jane James, so I don't know if she would have "JJ" on it 16 Q. Okay. That's good. Now, do you know why this 17 rather than. "JNL 17 was faxed to Scott Dinovitz? 18 Q. Okay. Do you recognize the way this setup is? 18 A. No. 19 A. Do I recognize the setup? 19 Q. Okay. 20 Q. Yeah. 20 MR. TUCHMAN: I'll ask the reporter to mark for 21 A. I'm guessing it's some kind of documentation for 21 identification as Exhibit 16, this.is Item No. 40. You can 22 some purpose. 22 put that down there. Thank you. Right here is good. 23 Q. Okay. It's some kind of tracking, but do you 23 Thank you. 24 recognize it? 24 25 A. Probably, yeah. 25 54 1 56 14 (Pages 53 to 56) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 616—INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 16 was marked 1 2 for identification by the court 2 3 reporter and is attached hereto.) 3 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 4 5 Q. Exhibit 16, Item 40, and this is a fax, June 9, 5 6 or letter of June 9, received June 12th by the Department 6 7 of Planning from Jane James to Scott Dinovitz, advising 7 8 that Ezralow is withdrawing their application. 8 9 Do you see that? 9 10 A. Yes, I do. 10 11 Q. Have you ever seen Exhibit 16 before? 11 12 A. I don't recall ever seeing it before. 12 13 Q. So you don't know why it was created then? 13 14 A. Well, I shouldn't guess, so I'd have to say no. 14 15 Q. Would it be fair to say that, you know, as the 15 16 Executive Director of the Redevelopment Agency of the City 16 17 of Huntington Beach, that up through the time you received 17 18 this June 12th, 2000, that Ezralow and Huntington Center -- 18 19 the Ezralow Company was still an applicant? 19 20 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes his 20 21 position, I believe. And in any event is argumentative. 21 22 THE WITNESS: I don't know what the reason for 22 23 this was or what the status was on that date, to be honest 23 24 with you. I really wasn't tracking the issue. 24 25 /// 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. All right. Did you ever check to determine if Ezralow or the Huntington Center Associates were ever applicants on this project? A. No. MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. Ill ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 48 — MR. TEPPER: What? MR. TUCHMAN: I'm sorry, Exhibit 17. Thank you, Mr. Tepper. (Plaintiff's Exhibit 17 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. — Item 48, and this came from the production of the City. Do you recognize Exhibit 17? A. Yes.. Q. What is Exhibit 17? A. It's a memo from David Biggs via Howard Zelefsky to the Council — I'm sorry, the Planning Commission. Q. Okay. Did you review this before it went out? A. No, I did not Q. Did you receive acopy of this as a CO. A. Yes, I did. Q. Okay. And do you -- as the Executive Director of 58 the Redevelopment Agency of the City of Huntington Beach, did you approve this memo or did you object to it or did you do neither9 A. I did neither. Q. Okay. Let's move to the next memo. This one is from Kane, Ballmer & Berkman. It's a one -pager. It says June 15th, 2000, from Murray Kane to David Biggs. Do you know why this was published? A. No, I do aot Q. This should be an attorney/client document; right? A. It doesn't say that on there, so I don't know what it should be. Q. Do you have any — did you discuss this document with Murray Kane? A. No. Q. Do you know why this document was made a part of the public record? A. No. Q. Okay. Let's see, 'The following is a brief outline of the statutory basis justifying the Agency's joining as applicant or co -applicant in the application for specific plan for Huntington Center within the Huntington Center component of the Huntington Beach Development Plan." Did you review this memo before it went out? 59 1 A. No, I did not 2 Q. Is there anything in this memo that you believe 3 is inaccurate? 4 A. I haven't read it to know that 5 Q. Take a moment to read it: It's one page. 6 A. I'm not an expert 7 MR. SHIPOW: Calls for legal conclusions. 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 ( Q. No, as the Director -- as the City Administrator 10' and as the Executive Director of the Redevelopment Agency 11 of the City of Huntington Beach, I want to know if this is 12 correct or not. 13 MR. SHIPOW: That doesn't permit him to make 14 legal conclusions. It doesn't qualify him as an expert. 15 MR. TEPPER: Do we have a question? Let's go to 16 the question. 17 THE WITNESS: I don't know anything. I don't 18 know of anything that's not appropriate -- 19 MR. TEPPER: Okay. 20 THE WITNESS: -- not being an expert on the 21 subject. 22 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 Q. That's fair. Now, did you ask Mr. Kane to write 24 this memo? 25 A. No. 60 15 (Pages 57 to 60) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Did you, after you signed the memo, which is dated June 5th, 2000, call any counsel to find out if what you did was legal? A. "Counsel" as in c-o-u-n-s-e-l? Q. Yes. A. I don't recall talking to anybody in the legal field about it Q. Did you ever make the comment to anybody, an elected person or a person that's an employee of the City, that you felt what you did was illegal and invalid? A. No. Q. Did you ever make the comment that you regret what you did? A. That I regret it? I don't recall saying I regret it Q. Did .you use the words to that effect? A. I felt if we had the authority to initiate a zone change, a memo should not have been necessary. Q. You said you were sorry you did it? A. I wouldn't say I was sorry I did it Q. Take a look at the next document within 17, City of Huntington Beach Request for Redevelopment Agency Action, submitted by Ray Silver, prepared by David Biggs. Did you review — this is for the Council meeting dated June 19th, 2000. 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 Did you review the submission which was attached 1 2 hereto as the last three pages of Exhibit -- the last four 2 3 pages of Exhibit 17 before it was submitted? 3 4 , A. I did not — what do you mean by "submitted"? 4 5 You mean before the agenda went to Council? 5 6 Q. Correct. 6 7 A. Yeah, I do review every document, or at least 7 8 initial every document that goes to Council. 8 9 Q. Did you initial this one? 9 l0 A. I don't see my initials on this one. 10 11 Q. Okay. Why does it say, "prepared by Biggs," but 11 12 "submitted by Ray Silver"? 12 13 A. The protocol of the Agency or the City is that 13 14 the Director who is the expert in the area prepares the 14 15 document, but from a chain of command point of view, since 15 16 I report to the Council, then it has to go through me to 16 17 Council:. 17 18 Q. Did you approve the last four pages of 18 19 Exhibit 17, which is the Request for Redevelopment Agency 19 20 Action? 20 21 A. Well, again, I don't see my initials on here. 21 22 Normally, I initial them if I had personally done that. 22 23 Normally, I do. Normally, I would. 23 24 Q. Okay. By the way, did you review this before it 24 25 was submitted? 25 62 RAY SILVER; 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. Submitted to me or to the Council? Q. To the Council. A. I don't recall because I don't see my initials on here. Q. Okay. Now, is there a shorthand term to referring for a Request for Redevelopment Agency Action? A. RAAs. Q. Those are RAAs as opposed to RCAs? A. Yeah, RCAs are a Council item, and RAAs as being an agency action, a separate corporation. Q. I71 get it straight. And who would you say you rely on most heavily to assist you with Redevelopment Agency actions? A. Murray Kane and David Biggs. Q. Okay. With respect to the approval of Ezralow as the developer, did you play any part in that? A. Well, I knew about it I agreed with it I didn't actively participate in negotiations or discussions with any parties Q. I noticed in the closed session references in 1999 and some in 2000, your name is mentioned as one of the negotiators. Would you describe yourself as a chief negotiator? A. I'm not in the meetings, if that's what you mean by "negotiator." There's no question that as the City 63 Administrator and City Director I have the ultimate responsibility to City Council or the Agency. Q. Are you the negotiator -- are you currently a negotiator involved with the OPA with Ezralow? A. I wouldn't say I was a negotiator, no. I'm not sitting in meetings. Q. You're one of the persons that has to ultimately approve what's done? A. On its way to Council, yes Q. Have you ever made a statement to the negotiators that the Burlington issue has got to be cleared up, or words to that effect? A. I don't recall ever saying that. Q. Have you instructed the negotiators to figure out how to handle the Burlington Coat Factory issue? A. I told them that I'm ultimately looking to the primary property owner, the major property owner, to determine the retail mix, and then we've got to decide what to do based on it. Q. Okay. And as part of your instructions -- as part of your instructions to make Ezralow responsible to deal with the issue just because of economic issues? A. It's because they're the experts on the market and the appropriate retail mix, and since they have the major stake in the property. It seemed logical for those 64 16 (Pages 61 to 64) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BUtti-INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reasons that they would be the ones to determine the mix, what uses make sense to be successful in the nature of the market they're trying to get into. We're not experts in that area. Q. Has anybody -- have any of your negotiators said to you that they want the City to use imminent domain power to get rid of Burlington Coat? A. Has anybody said that to me, I don't recall that. Q. Has Ezralow or anyone from Ezralow said that to you? A. I don't recall them referring to imminent domain. Q. Do you recall them referring to any use of police power to get rid of Burlington? A. I think it's premature. I think the whole discussion is premature. Q. That's not my question. Even though it may be premature in your mind, has that been raised? A. I don't recall. Q. You've been -- you've been at some of the meetings, the Council meetings or Redevelopment Agency meetings? A. Right. Q. And you've heard the response relative to Mervyn's and Burlington Coat. Have you responded -- have you instructed staff to communicate or do something about changing the current climate with respect to Montgomery Ward's and Burlington? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous about the "climate." MR. TEPPER: Yeah, I don't understand what that means, if that's a reference to the fact that you've sued the City and Mr. Silver individually, is that your climate s or- 9 THE WITNESS: What climate are you referring to? 10 BY MR. TUCHMAN: it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 65 Q. Have you instructed the City staff to find out whether Ezralow can work with Montgomery Ward's and Burlington to come to a resolution of the economic issues_ that exist? A. I've told staff that obviously it's up to Ezralow to work with all the property owners and decide whether or not to include all of them to have a successful project. Q. Has it ever been explained to you by anyone that Ezralow wants to use the police powers of the Agency, to essentially borrow those powers to eradicate Burlington Coat Factory? A. To eradicate them? I haven't heard that. Q. Have you heard that they want to use the police powers to get rid of Burlington Coat Factory? A. Not at this point. C.11 1 Q. Have you heard of anyone from Ezralow wanting to 2 use the police powers of the Redevelopment Agency and the 3 City to limit the amount of money that they would get, 4 assuming a condemnation is approved by your City Council? 5 A. I've never talked to anyone at Ezralow regarding 6 their terms or part of the lease cost or anything of that 7 with Ezralow. 8 Q. Have you discussed the Huntington Center or now 9 Crossings with EDAW, E-D-A-W? 10 A. No, I haven't. i l Q. Do you know who they are? 12 A. Yes, they're an environmental firm. 13 Q. Have you discussed it with Donahue & Associates? 14 A. I don't know who they are. 15 Q. Have you ever heard of Donahue Novac? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Do you know what an F&E is, an F&E appraisal? 18 A. No. 19 MR. TUCHN AN: Okay. III ask the reporter to 20 mark for identification as Exhibit 18, Exhibit 18 is 21 Item 57, which was produced yesterday by the City, and take 22 a look at that. 23 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 18 was marked 24 for identification by the court 25 reporter and is attached hereto.) 67 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 18? 3 A. Yes, I do. 4 Q. What is Exhibit 18? 5 A. It's an agenda item from the Redevelopment Agency 6 staff to the members of the Council that serve as the Board 7 of the Agency dated July 5th. 8 Q. And that was prepared by whom? 9 A. Howard Zelefsky. 10 Q. And this was, as a matter of protocol, submitted 11 by you directed to the Council? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And that was also initialed by you? 14 A. Is what? 15 Q. It's also initialed by you, sir? 16 A. Yes, I did initial this, yes, sir. 17 Q. Does that mean you reviewed it? 18 A. It means I approved it. It may not necessarily 19 mean I reviewed every line of it. 20 Q. Okay. And did you ask that Exhibit 18 be amended 21 in any way before it was submitted to the City Council? 22 A. I don't recall asking for any changes in it. 23 Q. Did you initial it as is? 24 A. I believe so. 25 Q. What determines whether you will get something -- 68 17 (Pages 65 to 68) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - RAY SILVER; 07.25.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I it looks like this is an RCA combined with an RAA; is that 1 A. Yeah, 2 right? 2 Q. And what did they respond? 3 A. That's what it says. 3 A. That it could go — it could be part of the uses 4 Q. Okay. What determines when you have an RCA 4 based upon the specific plan document. 5 versus an RAA and an RCA with an RAA? 5 Q. When the SP was marked up by Montgomery Ward and 6 A. I know that if we're asking the Council to take 6 Burlington, did you review any of the markups of the 7 action, that it's an RCA; and if we're asking the Agency to 7 requested changes of the SP, or was that not your 8 take action, it's an RAA. 8 department? 9 Q. And in this case you're asking both to do 9 A. Not my department. 10 something? 10 Q. Okay. Now, is there anything in Exhibit 18 that i l A. Yes. 11 was incorrect that you changed subsequently? 12 Q. Was the SP-13 approved? 12 A. I don't recall changing anything before or after 13 A. SP-13? You mean, the specific plan? 13 this was prepared. 14 Q. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. Do you communicate via e-mail with 15 A. Yes, it was. 15 anybody? 16 Q. Prior to this meeting, did you have conversations 16 A. Yes. 17 with anybody regarding the letters from Burlington? 17 Q. Okay. And do you communicate with Mr. Biggs via 18 MR. TEPPER: Letters from Burlington? What do 18 a -mail? 19 you mean? 19 A. I may have once or twice since we've worked 20 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 together. I don't use e-mail a IoL 21 Q. You saw letters from Burlington's counsel; 21 Q. Are you aware if all a -mails have been produced 22 right? 22 responsive to our documeni requests? 23 MR. TEPPER: Is that in connection with this? 23 A. I have no idea. 24 MR. TUCHMAN: Yeah. 24 Q. Have you ever instructed anyone at the City to 25 MR. TEPPER: You're referring to letters in 25 not provide Burlington with information which was 69 1 .71 1 connection with this? 1 requested? 2 MR. TUCHMAN: Oh, yeah. 2 A. No. 3 THE WITNESS: l do recall a letter from 3 Q. Have you instructed all employees appointed or 4 Burlington talking about their concerns about this specific 4 elected to cooperate with Burlington and respond to any 5, plan, yes. 5 requests for information that Burlington has made? 6 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 6 A. I have not instructed them in any way. 7 Q. Okay. And did you have conversations with anyone 7 Q. Whose responsibility is it to determine what 8 regarding those letters? 8 information or documents are provided to Burlington when 9 A. I don't recall if I did. I may have made a 9 they are requested? 10 comment. I don't recall any specific discussion. 10 A. I guess it would be staff in concert with the 11 Q. What was your comment? I attorneys. 12 A. I don't know how it was. Well, I think my 12 Q. And staff would be the Planning Commission staff? 13 question was whether or not as per the Burlington letter, 13 A. Planning Department start, Economic Development 14 did the specific plan allow for a use like Burlington. 14 stab 15 That's what I asked. --_ 15 Q. What's the difference between Economic 16 MR. TEPPER: I'm sorry, I didn't catch the 16 Development and Planning as far as the Redevelopment Agency 17 answer. Reread it, please. 17 is concerned? 18 - (Whereupon the previous answer was read 18 A. Planning is a department of the City of 19 back by the court reporter as requested.) 19 Huntington Beach Corporation. and the Economic Development 20 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 staff is almost all staff paid for by the Agency reported 21 Q. A use of Burlington? 21 to the Agency Board. 22 A. A retail use like a Burlington store in the 22 Q. Okay. And is Biggs higher than Zelefsky or are 23 mail. That was part of the issue, I think, in the 23 they the same level? 24_ Burlington letter. 24 A. Same, they're both directors. 25 Q. Right. And staff responded; correct? 25 Q. Okay. Are there any other departments other than 70 1 72 18 (Pages 69 to 72) )ILIO Et ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.23.00 BUR--INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 the EDD and Planning that work — work on the development 1 Q. Have you been involved in any of the hiring of 2 of the specific plan and the development of The Crossings? 2 consultants relative to appraising any of the fixtures or 3 A. Probably the City Attorney's office. 3 real estate value at the mail? 4 Q. Okay. And generally what do they do? 4 A. No. 5 A. ProvWe legal support 5 Q. That, again, is Mr. Biggs? 6 Q. Anything — legal support in terms of the 6 A. Yes, 7 lawsuits or anything else? 7 Q. Okay. Have you written — I know we thought 8 A. Everything relating to development, provide all 8 there was a memo after June 5, but have you written any 9 the legal support, whether it's In terms of litigation or 9 memos other than the June 5 memo, which was marked 10 just in terms of whatever we prepare is legal 10 Exhibit 7 and you initialed, have you authored any other 11 Q. Who hires — who makes the decision — I may i i memos specifically relating to The Crossings? 12 have asked this one earlier. Who makes the decision to 12 A. I didn't author the memo. I just signed it. I 13 hire outside counsel? 13 don't recall any other documents that I've even initialed 14 A. City Attorney. She's elected. 14 since Jae Sth. 15 Q. Has the — has the Redevelopment Agency of the 15 Q. Okay. YouW going to be staying away from that? 16 City of Huntington Beach entered into any exclusive 16 A. On this subject I initial things all the time. 17 negotiation agreement or interim agreement with Ezralow? 17 Q. Okay. I.eNs move on then. Were you involved in 18 A. I believe that counsel authorized as to negotiate 18 the closed session on July 5, 2000, wherein "Burlington 19 with Ezralow for an OPA. 19 Coat Factory versus Redevelopment Agency" was discussed? 20 Q. Okay. But is there, in the interim, another 20 A. What was the date again? 21 agreement between the City or the Redevelopment Agency and 21 Q. July 5. 22 Ezralow? 22 A. Yes, I was. 23 A. I don't know of any. 23 Q. Okay. And flow long did that meeting last? ., 24 Q. Who would know the answer, to that question? 24 A. Well, I think we had a number of closed session 25 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. He just gave the answer 25 items, so I don't recall bow long this subject lasteL 73 1 75 1 to the question. Argumentative. Mischaracterizes the 1 Q. Okay. And was there — has there ever been a 2 testimony. 2 request by you to revoke your — the memo that you only 3 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 3 initialed but you didnt author, dated June 5, 2000, which 4 Q. Who would know the answer to this question? 4 we've marked as Exhibit r 5 A. Probably David Biggs. 5 A. Has there been a request for me to revoke it? 6 Q. Okay. Have you ever heard of such an interim 6 Q. Yes. 7 agreement being entered into between the Redevelopment 7 A. No. 8 Agency and a developer prior to the OPA being entered into? 8 Q. Have you discussed with anyone the revocation of 9 A. I don't recall one. 9 the memo which you initialed dated June 7, 2000? 10 Q. Okay. As of right now, however, the 10 A. No. 11 Redevelopment Agency is only dealing exclusively with 11 Q. June 5, 2000: 12 Ezralow on the OPA and no one else? 12 MR. TEPPER* Thank you. 13 A. Yeah, I believe right now we're in negotiations 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 with Ezralow about an OPA. 14 Q. The answer is "No"? 15 Q. Do you know when the OPA will be entered into? 15 A. No. 16 A. I don't know. 16 Q. Now, the City Council closed session on July 5, 17 _- Q. Do you have an estimate as we sit here today? 17 it appeared under the City closed session — it says, "City 18 . A. Next 60 to 120 days, if we satisfactorily 18 Council pursuant to Government Code Section 54956.8, to 19 conclude the negotiations. 19 give instructions to Agency negotiators, Biggs, Silver, 20 Q. And if the negotiations aren't satisfactory, what 20 Jim Rabe, Murray Kane, and regarding negotiations with 21 happens? 21 Bryan Ezralow and Doug Gray, concerning negotiations for 22 A. Then they either build the mall without us or we 22 terms of the proposed disposition and development agreement 23 consider one with another party. 23 or owner participation agreement regarding the property 24 Q. You say, "they build the mail without us"? 24 located at 7777 Edinger. Instruction will concern both 25-_ A. Ezralow. 25 price and terms of payment." 74 1 76 19 (Pages 73 to 76) JILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 What does that mean, "both price and terms of 1 2 payment"? 2 3 MR. TEPPER: Are you speaking generically or as 3 4 to a particular item in that closed session? 4 5 MR. TUCHMAN: I'm referring to obviously a 5 6 specific item, but I want to know what "both price and 6 7 terms of payment" means. 7 8 MR. TEPPER: Well, if you're referring to a 8 9 instruction that may have been given that evening, you will 9 10 not get them. They are privileged. 10 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 11 12 Q. Then the question is general. What does that 12 13 mean when you refer to it that way? 13 14 A. My understanding is it was simply a section of 14 15 the Government Code to pat on the agenda. 15 16 Q. That I know, and that it's closed, but what I'm 16 17 asking is when I see "Instruction will concern both price 17 18 and terms of payment," and I see it repeatedly, what does 18 19 that mean? ' 19 20 A. It refers to the financial relationship through 20 21 an OPA that's negotiated between Ezralow and the Agency. 21 22 Q. Now, the Agency is not buying the property? 22 23 A. No, but obviously an OPA is a final agreement in 23 24 terms of what we're going to pat in and what they're going 24 25 to put in, so that's what it refers to. 25 77 1 Q. Do you know how the City of Huntington and/or the 1 2 Redevelopment Agency is going to raise the money to fill 2 3 the gap? 3 4 A. The assumption is to whatever extent we do put 4 5 any money in, it will create revenue for the project that 5 6 we don't currently get. 6 7 Q. Do you know how that money will be raised? 7 8 A. Either sales tax or an increase in property tax. 8 9 Q. Do you know how much the sales tax could increase 9 10 as a result of this? to 11 A. Not until we get a better definition of the 11 12 retail mix and the projection of the revenues, we would 12 13 then do a Pro Forma and get a sense of what could be 13 14 generated. 14 15 Q. It says here — I notice it's repeated over t5 16 and over — it says your name, "Ray Silver, relative 16 17 negotiators," you're not really in the front lines of the 17 18 negotiation? 18 19 A. I'm the boss. The back stops with me. 19 20 Q.. Okay. And I think -- 20 21 MR. TEPPER: Sign memos. 21 22 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I initial memos. 22 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 24 Q. I think -- 24 25 A. It sounds sad. 25 78 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q. I think even Mr. Kane was not present at that. I think he was out of town. Am I right about that? A. I don't recall. Murray did miss one. I don't recall which one Murray missed. Q. And if he's not there, someone is there in his place? A. From his firm, yes. Q. July 5, was that the longest meeting on record? A. Is that the one that went till 2:00 o'clock in the morning? Q. Yeah. A. No, the record, I think, is 4:30 in the morning. Q. All right. MR. TUCHMAN: III ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit — MR. SHIPOW: — 19. MR. TUCHMAN: Thank you. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. -- 19. This is the RAA. MR. SHIPOW: Can I get a copy? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 19 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) THE WITNESS: You're going to be able to come.to a Council meeting and know what we're talking about. 79 MR. TUCHMAN: Not passible. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. This is the RAA, and this is a Council meeting, July 17th, 2000. And my question is — it's three pages. Do you recognize Exhibit 19? A. Yes, I do. Q. What is Exhibit 19? A. It's an agenda item from the Agency staff to the Agency regarding the contract for consultant services for its Edinger Corridor Economic Development Action Plan and Specific Plan. Q. And did you read this before you approved it? A. Most of it. Q. Okay. And did you correct any drafts of this? A. Not that I recall. Q. Okay. And what action was taken on July 17. 2000? A. Council approved the action requested by the Agency staff. Q. And EDAW was retained? A. Yea Q. What role, if any, does EDAW have towards the Huntington Center? A. Well, as I understand it, they're doing the — they're preparing the Economic Development Action Plan and 80 20 (Pages 77 to 80) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.2S.00 BUS--INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 the SpeciRe Plan for the Edinger Corridor. 1 2 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 3 Q. As you sit here today, are there any documents in 3 4 your office pertaining to Burlington Coat Factory? 4 5 A. Na 5 6 Q. As you sit here today, are there any memos or 6 7 actions that you are contemplating taking that pertain to 7 8 Burlington Coat Factory? 8 9 A. No. 9 10 Q. Okay. 10 11 MR. TUCHMAN: Let's go off the record for a 11 12 second. I think we're just about done with this witness. 12 13 (A brief recess was taken.) 13 14 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 15 Q. What caused you to go downstairs to Zelefsky's 15 16 office once you received the June 5 -- the memo dated 16 17 June 5 that's Exhibit 7? 17 18 A. Because when I read the memo, it seemed like, Why 18 19 am I doing it? It seems like a normal procedure, so I'm 19 20 wondering why are we doing a memo for what we normally do. 20 21 Q. That's the reason you went downstairs? 21 22 A. Yes. 22 23 Q. Okay. Are you — have you been asked to provide 23 24 any declarations in the lawsuit with — between Burlington 24 25 and Ezralow? 25 81 1 A. No. 1 2 Q. Okay. Have you been asked to prepare any 2 3 synopses of anything relating to the Ezralow/Burlington 3 4 lawsuit? 4 5 A. No. 5 6 Q. Have you had any conversations about this 6 7 deposition with anyone from the City? 7 8 A. Other than saying Cm coming here, no. 8 9 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Biggs his deposition? 9 10 A. No. 10 11 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Duran his deposition? 11 12 A. No. Other than asking Gas this morning when he's 12 13 coming. 13 14 Q. Okay. I think that's tomorrow. 14 15 A. Yeah. 15 16 MR. TEPPER: Did he know that? 16 17 THE WITNESS: Yeah, he said he's coming tomorrow 17 18 morning. 18 19 MR. TEPPER: Okay. I just want to make sure. 19 20 MR. TUCHMAN:- Good. 20 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 21 22 Q. Have you — I want to make sure that I covered 22 23 all conversations that you had with Ezralow and Ezralow's 23 24 attorneys. Are there any other facts or any other 24 25 conversations you can relate regarding conversations with 25 82 Ezralow? A. I don't recall any right Dow. Q. Do you recall any conversations, other than what you've testified about, any conversations with Ezralow or Ezralow's attorneys regarding Burlington Coat Factory? A. I don't recall Burlington coming up. Q. Okay. Do you know Council Member Julian? A. Yes. Q. Have you ever had a conversation with her regarding Burlington Coat Factory? A. Yes. Q. And when was that? A. I think it was last week Q. What was said in that conversation? MR. TEPPER: Just make sure it's not in closed session. Was it in closed session? THE WITNESS: No, it was not in closed session. That probably Burlington and Montgomery Ward's was going to be in the center. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. And why did she say that? A. I said that Q. Oh, you said that? A. YeaL Q. And what was the basis of your saying that?; 83 A. Well, just because that's what I've been operating on until I hear otherwise. Q. Why are you going to operate on that until you hear otherwise? A. Because I'm assuming it's a matter for Ezralow to determine what retail ma it should be. Q. And what was her response for your saying that Montgomery Ward's and Burlington are going to be in the center? A. I don't recall her saying anything. Q. Is there something from Ezralow that was stated to you that caused you to say that Montgomery Ward's and Burlington would remain in the center? A. No. Q. Did you have a conversation with Council Member Bower regarding Burlington Coat Factory? A. Yea Q. And when was that? A. That was a week or two ago. Q. And who else was present? A. Just him and I. Q. What did you talk about? A. Well, we always go over all the issues and basically said the same thing. Q. Said what? 84 21 (Pages 81 to 84) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I A. That — I'm trying to recall — what did I say? I A. No. 2 I don't recall exactly what I said. 2 Q. Did you talk to Mr. Speaker about it? 3 Q. Did Bower express to you some question as to why 3 A. No. 4 Burlington Coat Factory basal been talked to by the City 4 Q. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Chapman 5 prior to the litigation? 5 about Burlington Coat Factory? 6 A. I think some time ago he may have asked me that 6 A. You know, I did meet with him on the art center. 7 question. 7 I don't recall as talking about this. 8 Q. What was your response? 8 Q. You spoke with Chapman regarding the June 5, 9 A. I believe all discussions should be going'oe 9 2000, memo? 10 between Ezralow and Burlington. That's where they should 10 A. I don't recall if I did or did not. l 1 be right now. 11 Q. And is it Kerins, K-e-r-i-n-s? 12 Q. That's what you told him? 12 A. No, I didn't talk to him. 13 A. Yes. 13 Q. You didn't talk to him. And the far left, the 14 Q. Did you direct the Economic Development 14 Planning Commissioner, her name is — 15 Department, including Mr. Duran and Mr. Biggs, to not have 15 A. January Shomaker. 16 any meetings with Burlington Coat Factory? 16 Q. Yeah, Shomaker. 17 A. No. 17 A. No, I didn't talk to her. 18 Q. Do you know if such a decision was made? 18 Q. I think there's one more Planning Commissioner, 19 A. We never talked about that being a decision. 19 Livengood. Did you speak to him about it? 20 Q. Did you have a conversation regarding Burlington 20 A. No. 21 Coat Factory with the Mayor? 21 Q. Did you see his memo dated June 22, 2000? 22 A. You know, I might have with all the Council 22 A. Just briefly. I didn't really read it in 23 members and go over all the items, so I may have talked 23 detail , 24 about it, but I don't recall what we talked about on it. 24 Q. That's the memo where he said any SP should have 25 Q. What did the Mayor say about it? 25 Burlington and Montgomery included? a 85 87 1 A. Well, I don't think the Mayor can participate in 1 A. I think there was some reference to that at the 2 these discussions anymore. 2 Council meeting. That's the only thing I recall about it. 3 Q. That's right. 3 Q. Did you -- as the Executive Director of the 4 A. I would be surprised if we talked about it. If 4 Redevelopment Agency of the City of Huntington Beach, do 5 we did, it would be very brief. 5 you agree or disagree with Mr. Livengood's memo? 6 Q. He's disqualified? 6 A. Well, not recalling everything it said and having 7 A. He's been cautioned not to participate in some of 7 been told that the specific plan did not preclude 8 the subjects. 8 Burlington, I didn't see anything to talk about. 9 Q. What about Tom Harman? Have you talked to him 9 Q. Okay. All right. Do you -- is there anything 10 about Burlington Coat Factory? 10 currently on your desk which pertains to Burlington Coat 11 A. I don't recall talking to Tom. 11 Factory or the Huntington Center? 12 Q. What about — is it Shirley Detlof ?. 12 A. No. 13 A. Yeah, probably just the same. I meet with 13 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. I don't have any further 14 everyone every one or two weeks, so it may come up in the 14 questions at this time. 15 course of talking about every other project. 15 MR. SHIPOW: I don't have any questions. 16 Q. What are the other Council members? Did I catch 16 THE WITNESS: Okay. On the road. 17 them all? Is it Kerins? 17 MR. TEPPER: Okay. Hold on. You've got to 18 A. No. Dave Sullivan, but Dave is hardly around. 18 stipulate. 19 Q. Did you talk to him about Burlington Coat 19 MR. SHIPOW: Can we just incorporate the prior 20 Factory? 20 stipulation? 21 A. I don't recall talking to him about it because we 21 MR. TUCHMAN: Just as long as you change the 22 didn't have our bi-weekly status meeting recently. 22 name. I had one reporter who was very literal and didn't 23 Q. We're almost done, Mr. Silver. With respect to 23 realize what she was doing, so everybody's name was 24 the planning procedures, did you talk to Mr. Biddle with 24 "Ray Silver." 25 regard to the Burlington Coat Factory? 25 (Discussion held off record.) 86 1 88 22 (Pages 85 to 88) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 B INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. TUCHMAN: Then 1 propose the following: That the reporter is relieved of her duties under the Code with respect to maintaining the original and obtaining, signature; that the transcript be sent to Mr. Silver, care of Mr. Tepper, at Murray Kane's office; that a cover letter accompany it with a CC to myself and Mr. Shipow; that Mr. Silver will have 30 days after receipt by Mr. Tepper of the transcript to read it and sign it. Mr. Tepper will have the responsibility to notify all parties of the changes to the transcript and the fact that it's been signed. Mr. Tepper then will turn the transcript over to me. The original transcript will be made available upon any reasonable request in any proceeding in this matter. In the event the transcript is not signed, not corrected, then an unsigned, certified copy will be useful for all appropriate purpose as if it were the original. MR. SHIPOW: So stipulated. MR. TEPPER: That's fine. MR. TUCHMAN: Mr. Silver, is that okay? THE WITNESS: Sure. MR. TUCEiMAN: Fine. Thank you. (Whereupon the deposition concluded at 3:06 p.m.) 89 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 23 (Page 89) ABBOTT 3:8 ability 26:19 33:21 able 8:14 79:24 about 10:1 11:1 16:16 20:18 22:21 24:8,16.19 25:2 29:4,16,19,19,21 30:6,7 32:19,20 33:17 38:12 40:21 41:13 46:7,8 48:2 49:7 50:24 51:2 52:2,7 55:22,23 61:7 63:17 65:25 66:3 70:4,4 74:14 79:2,25 81:12 82:6 83:4 84:22 85:19 85:24,24,25 86:4,9 86:10,12,15,19,21 87:2,5,7,19 88:2,8 Absolutely 38:22 accompany 89:6 accurate 42:13 achieve 29:25 acre 37:24 acres 40:11,21,21,22 40:23 across 25:5 action 47:5 48:17,20 61:23 62:20 63:6 63:10 69:7,8 80:10 80:16,18,25 actions 34:17 51:8 63:13 81:7 actively 63:18 activities 22:4 actual 41:23 42:5 43:4 actually 48:8 addition 44:12 47:16 additional 18:22 address 5:16,22 administration 9.13 administrative 10:13 10:16 21:18,19 Administrator 5:24 11:12,25 12:2,5,16 12:18,22 13:1,9 14:5,14 15:1 16:6 17:2,22,24 19:1 20:9 21:8,1129:7 43:16,23 60:9 64:1 Administrator's 15:20 adoption 37:22 39:5 39:18 advised 47:4 advising 57:7 after 7:17,24,24 9:3 10:1,11 32:22 33:6 34:25 36:1,5 45:1 48:5 56:1 61:1 71:12 75:8 89:7 afternoon 36:22 51:20 again 15:9 17:11 26:13 27:15 28:5 28:15 32:5 37:12 39:2 62:21 75:5,20 against 34:21 agency 7:1 13:2,7 15:23 16:2,18,25 17:6,14 18:20 20:6 20:12 22:1 24:4,23 26:8,14,19,25 27:8 28:2,3,10,15,24 29:6,9 30:3 41:23 42:5 43:4,17,24 44:20,20 46:15 47:1 57:16 59:1 60:10 61:22 62:13 62:19 63:6,10,13 64:2 65:20 66:19 67:2 68:5,7 69:7 72:16,20,21 73:15 73:21 74:8,11 75:19 76:19 77:21 77:22 78:2 80:8,9 80:19 88:4 Agency's 54:21 agenda 4:14 48:14 48:20 62:5 68:5 77:15 80:8 ago 84:19 85:6 agree 88:5 agreed 63:17 agreement 73:17,17 73:21 74:7 76:22 76:23 77:23 ahead 27:18 allow 70:14 allows 39:10 almost 16:8 72:20 86:23 already 47:20 Although 41:15,18 always 84:23 Amat 8:23 ambiguous-7:23 26:17 41:2 48:12 66:3 amended 68:20 amendment 39:19 39:20,24,25,25 43:19,19 amendments 55:12 amount 40:22 67:3 Amy 2:20 analyst 9:25 and/or 78:1 Angeles 2:25 3:5,10 3:15 5:2 another 73:20 74:23 answer 4:23 27:12 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 27:13 28:14 35:20 70:17,18 73:24,25 74:4 76:14 answers 42:2 50:9 anybody 22:13 31:21 33:17 34:23 35:10 37:7 49:15 50:21 61:6,8 65:5,8 69:17 71:15 anymore 86:2 anyone 12:23 15:19 25:8 49:13 52:15 65:9 66:18 67:1,5 70:7 71:24 76:8 82:7 anything 15:16,16 22:20 36:20 49:15 60:2,17,18 67:6 71:10,12 73:6,7 82:3 84:10 88:8,9 Anytime 52:19 anywhere 28:24 29:2 APPEARANCES 3:1 appeared 76:17 applicant 37:8 46:15 55:10,12 57:19 59:22 applicants 41:23 42:6 43:4 58:4 application 34:20 37:2 41:16,18 43:18 57:8 59:22 appointed 14:1 72:3 appraisal 67:17 appraising 75:2 appropriate 26:7 27:4 41:22 42:4 43:3 60:18 64:24 89:16 approval 39:24 40:4 63:15 approve 48:8,10 59:2 62:18 64:8 approved 67:4 68:18 69:12 80:12,18 approximately 6:3 40:11 architectural 39:11 area 14:18 62:14 65:4 argumentative 28:12 57:21 74:1 around 11:13 23:11 29:21 86:18 art 87:6 asked 8:1 33:19 34:9 34:13 38:12 42:21 45:6 48:15 50:16 70:15 73:12 81:23 82:2 85:6 asking 7:19 68:22 69:6,7,9 77:17 82:12 assist 22:12,16 63:12 assistance 24:12,12 assistant 10:8 11:12 12:1,4 14:5,13 16:10,11,2017:2,7 17:9,12,22,23 20:18,25 21:8,8,18 32:25 assistants 21:19 associates 1:9 2:9,24 3:3 25:9 58:3 67:13 assume 7:18 Assumes 46:19 assuming 20:20 67:4 84:5 assumption 78:4 assurances 24:23 attached 19:13,20 53:16 55:9 57:3 58:13 62:1 67:25 79:23 attend 8:22 9:19 attorney 8:1 13:14 13:17 19:4 27:7 35:22,23 73:14 attorneys 19:1,3 25:10 50:14 72:11 82:24 83:5 Attorney's 73:3 attorney/client 35:18 59:10 author 30:22 31:3 75:12 76:3 authored 30:24 31:1 31:4 51:14 75:10 authority 28:16 34:5 61:17 authorization 43:18 authorize 46:25 authorized 43:21 73:18 available 89:12 AVIV 3:3 avoid 8:12 aware 22:6 24:11,22 34:13,19 35:3,7,12 38:3 39:21 40:15 40:17,20,24 46:12 46:17,21,24 47:2,3 47:7 49:16,23 50:2151:5 55:11 71:21 away 75:15 Bachelor's 9:5,9 back 20:15 27:19,22 29:14 31:13 37:13 37:15,20 38:17 Page 90 42:9,11 43:9,11 44:4,6 70:19 background 7:9 8:21 back -dated 32:4,7 32:15,19 ballmer 3:13 59:6 Barnard 15:6,15 based 29:25 35:25 64:19 71:4 basically 26:6 29:24 84:24 basis 16:5 17:16 59:21 83:25 basket 31:13 32:24 beach 1:5 2:5 5:17 6:13.25 7:6 11:7,8 11:11,21 12:19 13:1,3,7,13,23 14:8 14:11 15:24 16:3 17:1,4 26:9,15 29:8 30:4 36:18 37:22 39:5 43:17 46:14 57:17 59:1 59:24 60:1161:22 72:19 73:16 88.4 became 9:22 10:16 10:22 49:23 become 46:15 49:16 before 2:20 6:1 15:22 19:9,16 23:22 25:6 33:23 34:25 40:3 43:1 46:24 48:3 52:3 54:6 55:15,16 56:1 57:11,12 58:21 59:25 62:3,5,24 68:21 71:12 80:12 behalf2:19 5:6 20:1 35:25 being 16:6,25 24:25 34:9 47:16 60:20 63:9 74:7,8 85:19 believe 27:24 32:18 48:15 53:12 57:21 60:2 68:24 73:18 74:13 85:9 beneath 40:13 berkman 3:13 59:6 besides 11:15 15:2 17:1,4,12 best 8:9,19 better 22:11 78:11 between 6:21 9:21 34:14,17 41:8 45:14 46:6 49:17 49:23 72:15 73:21 74:7 77:21 81:24 85:10 Biddle 47:4 86:24 big 33:22 34:4 biggs 3:12 4:13 17:18,20 18:1,11 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.0W BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 44:19,22 45:21 46:4 47:16 49:13 52:4 58:19 59:7 61:23 62:1163:14 71:17 72:22 74:5 75:5 76:19 82:9 85:15 Bishop 8:23 bi-weekly 86:22 Board 16:2 18:19 68:6 72:21 borrow 66:20 boss 78:19 both 18:24 69:9 72:24 76:24 77:1,6 77:17 bother 46:1 . bought 53:2,2 Boulevard 2:24 3:4 Bower 84:16 85:3 box 33:23 break 26:20 51:18 BREED 3:8 brief 51:25 59:20 81:13 86:5 briefly 9:24 87:22 brooha 45:2,3 brought 31:12 34:21 BRUCE 3:13 Bryan 76:21 buck 78:19 build 74:22,24 bunch 53:6 burtington 1:5 2:5 25:2,10,23 26:25 27:1,7 28:11 29:1 29:10,23 30:5 34:15,2135:25 40:25 49:17,23 52:16 64:11,15 65:7,13,24 66:2,13 66:20,24 69:17,18 70:4,13,14,21,22 70:24 71:6,25 72:4 72:5,8 75:18 81:4 81:8,24 83:5,6,10 83:18 84:8,13,16 85:4,10,16,20 86:10,19,25 87:5 87:25 88:8,10 Burlington's 26:5 69:21 business 5:21 buy 53:6 buying 52:20 77:22 Cal 9:5,6,10,14 10:1 10:4 california 1:1,6 2:1,6 2: 22,25 3:5,10,15 5:2,17 11:16,19 . 40:12 call 35:17 55:13 61:2 called 5:6 48:14 Calls 27:10 32:11 54:1160:7 came 11:21 31:9,13 32:2 40:3 49:20 58:15 capacity 6:24 15:25 18:25 card 5:21 care 16:21 89:4 case 1:8 2:8 6:15,24 69:9 cases 6:7 catch 70:16 86:16 caused 34:3 35:25 81:15 84:12 cautioned 86:7 CC 58:23 89:6 CCed 44:15,19 CCs 33:9 center 1:9 2:9 14:21 14:21 15:17 20:23 22:25 23:8 24:9,20 25:5,9,24 26:16 28:7 29:1,11,17 37:24 39:7.40:25 57:18 58:3 59:23 59:24 67:8 80:23 83:19 84:9,13 87:6 88:11 certainly 27:17 certified 2:20 5:8 89:15 chain 62:15 chambers 36:5 change 33:22 37:11 41:16,19 43:21 44:2 61:18 88:21 changed 71:11 changes 8:7 34:6,12 45:8 46:2,10 68:22 71:7 89:10 changing 37:7 66:1 71:12 Chapman 87:4,8 charge 15:11 check 58:2 chief 63:22. City -initiated 41:25 43:6 clarity 38:19 40:20 Clay 15:14,15 cleared 64:11 clerical 21:10,19,23 Clerk 13:14,17 climate 66:1,4,7,9 close 24:14 closed 22:23 23:2 24:6 63:20 75:18 75:24 76:16.17 77:4,16 83:15,16 83:17 clothes 52:20 coat 1:5 2:5 25:3,10 29:140:25 49:17 52:16 64:15 65:7 65:24 66:21,24 75:19 81:4,8 83:5 83:10 84:16 85:4 85:16,2186:10,19 86:25 87:5 88:10 Code 76:18 77:15 89:2 combined 69:1 come 11:8 34:9 42:3 43:2,12,24 44:7,13 66:13 79:24 86:14 coming 31:23 82:8 82:13,17 83:6 command 62:15 commencing 2:22 comment 8:7 61:8,12 70:10,11 comments 47:7 51:2 Commission 45:14 47:4 58:20 72:12 Commissioner 47:4 87:14,18 commissioners 45:18 commitments 24:23 communicate 65:25 71:14,17 , communication 36:1 Communications 15:4 Community 14:12 36:13,19 company 1:10,11,11 1:11 2:10,11,11,11 40:9,12 41:19 57:19 completed 7:24 component 59:24 computer 53:23 54:8 concept 29:18 concern 26:18 76:24 77:17 concerned 72:17 concerning 76:21 concerns 70:4 concert 72:10 conclude 74:19 concluded 89:23 conclusion 42:1,3 conclusions 60:7,14 condemnation 67:4 conflict 53:1 conflicted 53:7 connection 30:4 52:5 69:23 70:1 consider 74:23 considered 4 1: 10 .55:11 consternation 35:25 consultant 80:9 consultants 75:2 contact 14:20 52:15 contemplating.81:7. continue 53:5 continuously 12:10 contract 80:9 conversation 45:13 52:3 83:9,14 84:15 85:20 87:4 conversations 25:8 25:17 29:13,15,15 29:22 45:17 69:16 70:7 82:6,23,25,25 83:3,4 cooperate 72:4 copies 44:18 copy 58:23 79:20 89:15 Coronado 6:8,9 7:5 7:8 10:12,14,17,19 corporation 1:6 2:6 24:10 63A0 72:19 corporations 18:24 correct 8:614:1 20:10 22:22 24:5 39:14 40:22 46:5 51:8 60:12 62:6 70:25 80:14 corrected 89:14 corrections 8:7 Corridor 25:7 80:10 81:1 cost 67:6 Council 13:10,25 18:18,19 23:16 36:4 40:4 44:16 45:1 48:7 49:9 55:18,19,2158:20 61:24 62:5,8,16,17 63:1,2,9 64:2,9 65:20 67:4 68:6,11 68:21 69:6 76:16 76:18 79:25 80:3 80:18 83:7 84:15 85:22 86:16 88:2 counsel 3:1 23:17 48:15,20 61:2,4 69:21 73:13,18 Counsel/Redevelo.» 24:4 county 1:2 2:2 8:24 8:25 10:22,25 couple 31,:25 course 86:15 court 1:1 2:17:13 19:12 27:22 37:15 42:11 43:11 44:6 53:15 57:2 58:12 67:24 70:19 79:22 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 91 cover 53:19 89:5 covered 82:22 Covina 9:23,24 co -applicant 59:22 create 78:5 created 57:13 Crossings 67:9 73:2 75:11 current 5:16 66:1 currently 64:3 78:6 88:10 customer 52:23 c-o-u-n-s-a-161:4 date 25:1,21 31:8 38:12 39:9 40:1,3 40:5,22 57:23 75:20 dated 4:15 31:25 50:13 53:20 61:2 61:24 68:7 76:3,9 81:16 87:21 Dave 86:18,18 david 3:114:13 17:18,20 18:149:4 58:19 59:7 61:23 63:14 74:5 day 12:20 31:25 32:2 32:3,5,12 40:24 42:24 56:15 days 31:25 33:7,8 56:7,12,14 74:18 89:7 day-to-day 13:11 16:4 17:16 deal 33:22 34:4 64:22 dealing 74:11 decide 64:18 66:16 decision 28:2133:9 48:16 73:11,12 85:18,19 declaration 35:4 50:16 52:4,7,9 declarations 50:22 81:24 defendants 1:13 2:13 3:7 definitely 38:18 definition 78:11 degree 9:1,5 Del 6:9 Delaware 1:9,10,11 2:9,10,11 delivered 33:2,5 department 13:15 14:18 17:5,15,17 17:18 36:14,19 44:11 57:6 71:8,9 72:13,18 85:15 departments .72:25 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 depends 20:14 depo 7:5 deponent 5:23 deposition 1:18 2:19 4:10.6:1 19:10,16 19:23 20:2 52:13 82:7,9,11 89:23 describe 47:24 63:22 Description 4:9 design 39:11 designated 41:23 42:5 43:4 desk 88:10 detail 87:23 determine 26:7,15 26:19 28:10 29:24 36:25 58:2 64:18 65:1 72:7 84:6 determines 68:25 69:4 Detloff 86:12 developer 63:16 74:8 development 12:6,8 14:12,17,22 15:12 15:16 16:8 17:5,19 23:16 28:10 36:13 36:19 37:24 39:7 39:12 59:24 72:13 72:16,19 73:1,2,8 76:22 80:10,25 85:14 devoted 16:5 diary 22:7 Diego 10:23,25 difference 46:6 72:15 different 7:1 44:18 Dinovitz 53:20 55:9 56:17 57:7 direct 52:15 85:14 directed 68:11 directly 15:2,19 17:5 19:21 42:8 director 10:13,15,22 10:24 13:2,6 14:12 15:4,8,10,23 16:6 17:1 18:7 20:12 22:4 23:16,17 29:8 30:3,19 43:16,23 57:16 58:25 60:9 60:10 62:14 64:1 88:3 directors 16:2 72:24 disability 8:18 disagree 88:5 discuss 49:1 59:14 82:9,11 discussed 25:21,22 47:15 50:4,12 67:8 67:13 75:19 76:8 discussion 24:8 52:6 52:8 65:13 70:10 88:25 discussions 52:10 63:18 85:9 86:2 disposition 76:22 disqualified 86:6 dissatisfaction 49:9 49:12 document 20:14 35:3 37:10 41:13 59:10 59:14,17 61:21 62:7,8,15 71:4,22 documentation 54:21 documents 19:22,25 22:13,14,17,19 52:3,12 72:8 75:13 81:3 doing 49:1180:24 81:19,20 88:23 domain 28:21 65:6 65:11 Donahue 67:13,15 done 11:14 45:7 62:22 64:8 81:12 86:23 doubt 25:15 Doug 76:21 down 26:21 28:22 33:19,24 34:3,7 42:20 43:8 54:2,3 56:22 downstairs 81:15,21 dozen 25:14,15 drafts 33:13 80:14 drawings 29:18 driver's 11:15,19 duly 5:7 Duran 82:11 85:15 duties 12:5 13:9 14:16 15:24 20:9 22:7 89:2 earlier 73:12 economic 17:4,18 23:16 64:22 66:13 72:13,15,19 80:10 80:25 85:14 economically 26:20 EDAW 67:9 80:20 80:22 EDD 73:1 Edinger 25:6 76:24 80:10 81:1 Edison 40:12 education 8:21 9:4 effect 7:13 35:12 44:11 45:25 61:16 64:12 Effectiveness 15:8 15:11 either 44:13 5 2: 11 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 74:22 78:8 elected 13:15 18:9 19:4 61:9 72:4 73:14 employed 9:22 employee 6:25 61:9 employees 17:3,4 72:3 employment 7:9 10:2 ends 41:12 entered 73:16 74:7,8 74:15 entities 34:15 49:18 environmental 67:12 eradicate 66:20,22 escrow 24:14 ESQ 3:3,8,13 essentially 66:20 establish 37:2,23 39:6 estate 75:3 estimate 74:17 even 22:12 65:16 75:13 79:1 evening 77:9 event 24:13,24 57:21 89:14 Eventually 39:23 ever 6:1 11:18 19:15 25:8 42:18 44:23 50:12,16 55:15,16 55:22 57:11,12 58:2,3 61:8,12 64:10,13 66:18 67:15 71:24 74:6 76:1 83:9 every 25:21,2156:15 62:7,8 68:19 86:14 86:15 Everybody 13:21 everybody's 88:23 everyone 86:14 everything 13:19 73:8 88:6 exactly 85:2 EXAMINATION 4:2 5:11 examined 5:8 except 13:14 17:9 excerpt23:25 exclusive 73:16 exclusively 74:11 Excuse 38:8 executive 13:2,6 15:23 16:6 17:1 20:18,25 21:7 22:4 29:8 30:2 32:24 43:16,23 57:16 58:25 60:10 88:3 exercises 28:16 Exhibit 19:8,11,16 23:20,21,23 24:1,3 30:8,9,11,15,17 31:16 32:9,22 33:13,18 35:12 36:9,25 41:17 45:15 46:5,25 47:12,16 49:1,10 49:14 50:1,13 53:10,14 56:21 57:1,5,11 58:7,9,11 58:16,18 62:2,3,19 67:20,20,23 68:2,4 68:20 71:10 75:10 76:4 79:15,2180:5 80:7 81:17 exhibits 4:8 23:22 exist 66:14 expert 60:6,14,20 62:14 experts 27:5 64:23 65:3 explained 66:18 express 49:8,12 85:3 expressed 26:18 46:4 extent 78:4 ezralow 1:10,11 2:10 2:11 24:9,12,13,24 25:9 27:6 29:14,23 30:2 34:15,21 40:9 41:9,16,19 49:17 49:24 50:14 55:11 57:8,18,19 58:3 63:15 64:4,21 65:9 65:9 66:12,15,19 67:1,5,7 73:17,19 73:22 74:12,14,25 76:21 77:21 81:25 82:23 83:1,4 84:5 84:11 85:10 Ezralow's 25:25 82:23 83:5 Ezralow-related 49:18 Ezralow/Burlington 35:8 52:5 82:3 E-D-A-W 67:9 e-mail 5:22 71:14,18 71:20 e-mails 71:21 ----F-fact 24:19 41:18 46:19 66:6 89:10 factory 1:5 2:5 25:3 25:10 29:1 40:25 49:17 52:16 64:15 66:21,24 75:19 81:4,8 83:5,10 84:16 85:4,16,21 86:10,20,25 87:5 88:11 facts 38:3,6,10 82:24 Page 92 fading 51:20 fair 27:6 57:15 60:23 Fallon 14:7,13,20 15:3 22:6,9 far 41:1 72:16 87:13 Fauland 49:6 fax 5:20,22,25 36:8 36:10,14,18,20 57:5 faxed 36:22 55:17 56:17 - Feel 55:13 feelings 47:25 48:1 felt 61:10,17 few 33:7,8 36:3 field 61:7 Fifth 3:9 Figueroa 3:14 figure 64:14 file 31:14 filed 35:4 46:18 files 20:5,8,22 21:25 fill 78:2 filled 17:8,23 final 33:16 77:23- . financial 24:12 77:20 find 37:1 42:18 61:2 66:11 fine 45:12 89:18,21 finish 9:16 47:19 firm 67:12 79:7 first 5:7 6:8 25:2,4 25:19 27:3 31:5,8 38:20 39:17 49:16 49:21 five 56:7,12.14 five-minute 51:17 fixtures 75:2 flexed 56:9,13 Floor 2:24 3:4,9 Flynn 21:14,22 focus 12:6,8 Fogarty 21:4,5,7,22 following 59:20 89:1 follows 5:9 force 7:12 form 33:16 45:10 Forma 78:13 formal 46:15 format 48:21 four 62:2,18 free 55:13 Fresno 9:6,15 10:1,4 Friday 56:8 from 4:11,12,13 8:19 8:21 12:3,9 13:19 14:15 23:25 24:3 25:9 26:4,11,12 30:12,18 31:13 35:21,22,23 36:13 50:21 52:15 53:20 55:8 57:7 58:15,19 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BUkLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 59:6,7 62:15 65:9 67:168:5 69:17,18 69:21703 75:15 79:7 80:8 82:7 84:11 front 23:2130:9 43:22 78:17 frustrated 46:6 Rill -time 9:23 10:2,3 functions 13:13,15 13:22 20:12 further 88:13 future 39:11 ME 67:17,17 F-a-x 36:12 F-1-y-n-n 21:14 F-o-g-a-r-t-y 21:4 G 54:12 55:3,4 Gail 19:5 gap 78:3 garbage 13:19 gave 5:216:21 73:25 Geez 6:8 25:13 general 24:8 37:22 39:5 77:12 generalist 12:6,7,8 generally 24:19 25:20 29:16,19 73:4 generated 54:8 78:14 generically 77:3 gets 56:15 getting 16:23 19:18 33:20 55:21 give 5:19 8:8 32:25 44:4 76:19 given 45:22 77:9 giving 8:19 go 14:8 20:16 27:18 29:14 32:25 33:9 34:3 37:1,4 46:11 52:2 53:6 60:15 62:16 71:3 81:11 81:15 84:23 85:23 goes 20:15 62:8 going 16:23 19:7 20:16 26:9,15 27:2 34:16,17 37:6 53:9 75:15.77:24,24. 78:2 79:24 83:18- 84:3,8 85:9 good 15:156:16,22 82:20 govern 39,:11 . 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HUNTINGTON CENTER . map 39:19,25 43:19 55:12 March 41:17,20 mark 3:8 19:8 53:10 56:20 58:7 67:20 79:14 marked 4:9 19:11 53:14 57:1 58:11 67:23 71:5 75:9 76:4 79:21 market 29:20 64:23 65:3 markups 71:6 Martin 15:14,15 matter 50:4 68:10 84:5 89:13 may 8:8 14:7,14,15 20:16 28:20 35:17 53:19,19 55:24 65:16 68:18 70:9 71:19 73:11 77:9 85:6,23 86:14 Maybe 53:6 Mayor 44:15 50:24 51:2 85:21,25 86:1 mean 13:19 14:22 16:18,18 28:21 36:12 40:21 41:3 50:18 54:6 55:19 62:4,5 63:24 68:17 68:19 69:13,19 77:1,13,19 means 16:20 55:3,4 66:6 68:18 77:7 medication 8:18 meet 86:13 87:6 meeting 24:7,16,19 25:21 31:14 45:1 47:4 61:24 69:16 75:23 79:8,25 80:3 86:22 88:2 meetings 23:13 63:24 64:6 65:20 65:20,21 85:16 Melanie 14:7,13,20 15:3 16:7 Member 83:7 84:15 members 44:16 45:14 49:5,9 68:6 85:23 86:16 memo 4:11,13 30:12 31:5,18,22 34:4,10 34:14 35:7 36:1,6 37:20 42:2,12,13 42:14,16,25 43:15 43:22 44:15,21,22 45: 7,15,18, 22 46:1 46:11 47:12 48:2,4 48:8,8 49:2,10,14 50:2,13,25 51:3,7,8 51:9,14 53:21,22 55:10,23 58:19 59:2,5,25 60:2,24 61:1,18 75:8,9,12 76:2,9 81:16,18,20 87:9,21,24 88:5 memorandum 30:18 38:13 memos 22:3 75:9,11 78:21,22 81:6 mentioned 15:22 20:25 29:13 63:21 Mervyn's 65:24 middle 6:24 might 29:17,20 34:24 85:22 Mike 11:23 12:10 13:8 military 9:7 mind 26:1 65:17 minimum 20:19 Minutes 23:25 24:3 24:4 Mischaracterization 44:1 mischaracterized 47:20 Mischaracterizes 37:9,10 47:17 57:20 74:1 miss 22:6,9 79:3 missed 79:4 misstatement 42:7 misstates 28:12 43:7 mix 26:7,10 27:4,5 28:11 29:25 30:1 64:18,24 65:1 78:12 84:6 moment 60:5 Monday 56:8 money 67:3 78:2,5,7 Montgomery 40:11 40:23 66:2,12 71:5 83:18 84:8,12 87:25 months 16:16 more 13:12 16:22 23:7,10 25:14,15 41:22 42:4 43:3 52:2 87:18 MORGAN 3:8 morning 79:10,12 82:12,18 most 16:5 23:17 27:17 63:12 80:13 motion 46:15,18,21 48:17 move 59:5 75:17 moved 11:13 25:4,6 much 78:9 Mulligan 6:14,15,22 Murray 59:7,15 63:14 76:20 79:3,4 89:5 Page 94 must 46:15 myself 89:6 name 5:13 11:24 15:13 21:3 63:21 78:16 87:14 88:22 88:23 names 6:7 nationwide 16:15 nature 65:2 necessarily 0.8:18 necessary 37:23 39:6 45:6 61:18 necessity 43:25 need 8:12 15:13 47:18 needed 32:25 negotiate 73:18 negotiated 77:21 negotiation 73:17 78:18 negotiations 24:9 63:18 74:13,19,20 76:20,2I negotiator 63:23,25 64:3,4,5 negotiators 63:22 64:10,14 65:5 76:19 78:17 neither 59:3,4 never 41:13 42:19,19 42:21 67:5 85:19 new 14:10 16:10,11 23:23 37:2 newest 6:20 newspaper 47:14 next 39:10 40:19 41:15 43:15 44:10 59:5 61:21 74:18 niche 29:19 nobody 31:23 nods 8:13 None 4:20,24 normal 81:19 normauy 46:10 62:22,23,23 81:20 north 40:13 notes 22:6 nothing 16:8 41:13 notice 4:10 19:9,16 19:23 20:15 46:25 78:15 noticed 47:5 54:6 63:20 notify 89:9 Novac 67:15 November 12:3,9,12 12:19 13:5 16:12 16:13,14 21:9 number 5:16,20,20 5:22,24 20:19 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 13UtINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 23:11 36:18,21 75:24 Oakland 11:2,3 oath 7:12 object 59:2 Objection 24:15 27:9 32:11,16,17 35:17 37:9 41:2 44:1 52:17 54:11 57:20 66:3 73:25 objections 28:4 obligates 7:14 obtaining 89:3 obviously 27:2 28:5 28:15 42:12 66:15 77:5,23 occurred 24:6 October 14:15 off 81:11 88:25 office 9:2515:2,20 20:5,8,20,21,23 31:9,12,23 32:2 33:16 73:3 81:4,16 89:5 Offices 2:23 official 18:8 Oh 38:18 70:2 83:23 old 51:20 older 51:22 oldest 6:19 once 55:24 71:19 81:16 one 6:8,9,16,17,19 6:19,20 7:3,17 15:10,13 16:13 18:22 25:19 28:10 29:9 36:4 48:16 56:13 59:5 60:5 62:9,10 63:2164:7 73:12 74:9,12,23 79:3,4,9 86:14 87:18 88:22 ones 65:1 one -page 30:12 one -pager 59:6. ongoing 34:14 50:2 only 74:1176:2 88:2 OPA 41:10 64:4 73:19 74:8,12,14 74:15 77:21,23 operate 84:3 operating 44:17 45:7 46:2 84:2 operations 13.11 opinion 42:24 opportunity 8:5 opposed 63:8 orange 1:2 2:2 8:24 Order 34:20 Ordinance 46:13 organizational 15:8 .15:10,11 original 37:2 38:16 89:3,12,16 other 7:6 11:19 12:25,25 17:3,13 20:17,19 21:10,19 24:19 28:10 29:10 29:21,22 47:15,24 48:149:5,13 52:20 72:25,25 75:9,10 75:13 82:8,12,24 82:24 83:3 86:15 86:16 otherwise 44:3 84:2 84:4 out 20:15,18 27:1 32:24 36:22 42:18 51:16 53:1,7 58:21 59:25 61:2 64:14 66:11 79:2 outline 59:21 outside 73:13 over 12:15 45:2 55:18 78:15,16 84:23 85:23 89:11 overall 16:24 oversaw 14:17 oversee 16:2,17 owner 26:7 27:3 28:6 28:18 40:10,25 41:3,9,10 64:17,17 76:23 ' owners 66:16 ownership 40:12 owns 40:11 o'clock 79:9 page 4:2,8 53:22 60:5 pages 37:162:2,3,18 80:4 paid 72:20 paper 20:11,20 47:8 49:20 paragraph 24:1 39:18 --- Pardon 23:5 part 25:23 59:17 63:16 64:20,21 67:6 70:23 71:3 partially 25:18,20 participate 63:18 86:1,7 participation 76:23 particular 77:4 parties 34:18 44:18 . 63:19 89:9 party 44:21 74:23 part-time 9:22 past 6:22 33:7,8 Patti 21:4,5,7 pausing 33:4 payment 76:25 77:2 77:7,18 penalty 8:2 50:17,22 pending 34:20 people 17:13 18:23 18:24 20:17,19 29:14 per 70:13 perjury 8:2 50:17,22 permit 60:13 person 14:4 61:9,9 personally 40:17 62:22 persons 64:7 person's 15:13 21:3 pertain 20:6,8,22 81:7 pertained 22:24 pertaining 21:25 25:10 81:4 pertains 20:1188:10 phone 5:16,19 33:17 pick 8:14 33:17 48:17 piece 20:11 pieces 20:20 place 79:6 plaintiff 1:7 2:7,20 3:2 5:7 Plaintiffs 4:919:11 53:14 57:158:11 67:23 79:21 plan 37:3,23 39:6,10 39:18,24 41:24 43:5,20 55:10 59:23,24 69:13 70:5,14 71:4 73:2 80:10,11,25 81:1 88:7 planning 10:22,24 18:7 23:18 30:19 33:19 37:22 39:5 44:10,12 45:14,19 47:3 57:7 58:20 72:12,13,16,18 73:186:24 87:14 87:18 play 63:16 please 5:14 7:23 11:24 26:13 27:19 37:13 44:10 48:12 55:9,11 70:17 pleasure 13:1016:1 point 26:1,2,11,12 28:18 62:15 66:25 police 65:12 66:19 66:23 67:2 portion 16:24 position 7:6 12:15,22 14:1,10,13 16:22 17:2,7,9,10,23- 27:24 28:2,3 57:21 possibilities 28:23 possible 29:20 32:9 K:15 80:1 power 18:11,14 28:2165:6,13 powers 66:19,20,24 67:2 practical26:11 28:17 practice 34:6,1156:5 preclude 88:7 preference 29:9 premature 29:12 65:14,15,17 preparation 22:16 42:14 52:12 prepare 19:22,25 73:10 82:2 prepared 7:25 35:7 42:13,16,18 61:23 62:1168:8 71:13 prepares 62:14 preparing 80:25 present 7:1812:20 23:12,15 79.1 84:20 presently 14:9 prevent 8:19 previous 13:6 27:21 37:14 42:10 43:10 44:5 70:18 previously 53:18: price 76:25 77:1,6,17 primary 27:2 64:17 prior 14:14 45:14 49:22 69:16 74:9 85:5 88:19 privilege 35:18 privileged 77:10 Pro 78:13 probably 16:14 23:11,17 25:6 54:25 73:3 74:5 .83:18 86:13 problem 17:12 procedure 44:17 45:7 46:2 81:19 procedures 86:24 proceed 8:17 proceeding 89:13 process 46:10 processing 39:19 43:18 produce 22:13 produced 67:21 71:21 production 58:15 Professional 2:21. Program 16:3 project 41:25 43:6 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 95 58:4 66:17 78:5 86:15 projection 78:12 promises 24:11,25 proper 28:11 PROPERTIES 1:10 2:10 property 24:24 26:6 27:3 28:6,17 37:25 39:8 40:10,14 41:8 64:17,17,25 66:16 76:23 77:22 78:8 proposal 41:24 43:5 propose 89:1 proposed 76:22 protocol 62:13 68:10 provide 13:22 71:25 73:5,8 81:23 provided 22:20 24:13 72:8 provisions 46:13 public 9:13 46:25 59:18 published 59:8 Puente 8:25 purchased24:24. purely 21:23 purpose 54:22 89.16 pursuant 76:18 put 32:24 33:11 56:22 77:15,24,25 78:4 P-a-t-t-i 21:4 p.m 2:22 5:1 89:23 qualify 60:14 question 7:22 17:11 17:16 19:15 26:13 26:24 27:15,19,21 28:17 37:12,13,14 38:16,23 42:8,9,10 43:9,10 44:4,5 47:19 50:9 60:15 60:16 63:25 65:16 70:13 73:24 74:1,4 77:12 80:4 85:3,7 questions 7:17 38:14 55:13 88:14,15 R 3:13 RAA 4:15 69:1,5,5,8 79:19 80:3 RAAs 63:7,8,9 Rabe 76:20 raise 78:2 raised 65:17 78:7 rather 54:17 ratify 48:15,17 ray 1:19 2:19 5:5,15 19:10,17 30:12 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 61:23 62:12.78:16 88:24 RCA 48:15,19,22,24 69:1,4,5,7 RCAs 48:16 63:8,9 reaction 47:9 read 27:19,21 37:13 37:14 38:17 42:9 42:10 43:9,10 44:5 47:8 49:20 55:9 60:4,5 70:18 80:12 81:18 87:22 89:8 reading 7:18 40:9 real 75:3 realize 88:23 really 26:21 33:6 45:6 51:4 57:24 78:17 87:22 realm 28:23 reason 7:23 8:17 32:18 57:22 81:21 reasonable 89:13 reasons 65:1 recall6:17 7:3 19:18 19:19 23:10,11 24:18,25 26:3 31:8 32:12 34:16,22,24 35:2 37:6,16 40:3 45:20 46:16 48:1,6 49:7,11,15,19,20 49:25 50:3,15 51:1 51:13,15 52:6,10 55:16,21 57:12 61:6,14 63:3 64:13 65:8,11,12,18 68:22 70:3,9,10 71:12 74:9 75:13 75:25 79:3,4 80:15 83:2,3,6 84:10 85:1,2,24 86:11,21 87:7,10 88:2 recalling 88:6 receipt 89:7 receive 58:23 received 20:2 57:6 57:17 81:16 receiving 19:19 recently 86:22 recess 51:25 81:13 recognize 24:130:15 36:8,16,17 53:19 53:23 54:4,18,19 54:24 55:1,2 58:16 68:2 80:5 record.5:14 30:11 59:18 79:8.12 81:11 88:25 records 44:11,13 recruiting 16:15 redevelopment 13:2 13:7 15:23 16:1,2 16:1725 17:6,14 17:15 18:20 20:6 20:12 22:1,24 24:23 26:8,14.25 28:24 29:9 30:3 41:23 42:5 43.4,17 43:24 46:14 57:_16 59:1 60:10 61:22 62:19 63:6,12 65:20 67:2 68:5 72:16 73:15,21 74:7,11 75:19 78:2 88:4 refer 77:13 reference 53:23 66:6 88:1 references 63:20 referring 63:6 65:11 65:12 66:9 69:25 77:5,8 refers 77:20,25 regard 86:25 regarding 29:23 44:22 45:15,18 49:9,13 51:7,11 52:4,9 55:10,13 67:5 69:17 70:8 76:20,23 80:9 82:25 83:5,10 84:16 85:20 87:8 Registered 2:21 regret 61:12,14,14 regular 22:3,7 relate 82:25 related 14:18 15:17 23:8 50:18 relating 73:8 75:11 82:3 relationship 17:20 77:20 relative 24:12 26:5 65:23 75:2 78:16 relieved 89:2 rely 63:12 remain 84:13 remember 6:10,11 6:12 25:16,20 31:24 32:5- repeat 38:23 repeated 78:15 repeatedly 77:18 rephrase 7:24 report 13:14 17:5,6 62:16 reported 14:18 47:14 72:20 reporter 2:21,21 5:8 8:14 19:8,13 27:22 37:15 42:11 43:11 44:6 53:9,16 56:20 57:3 58:6,13 67:19 67:25 70:19 79:14 79:23 88:22 89:2 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER reports 13:21 17:23 representatives 29:23 represents 44:20 request 19:25 48:20 61:22 62:19 63:6 76:2,5 89:13 requested 4:19 27:22 37:15 42:11 43:11 44:6 70:19 71:7 72:1,9 80:18 requests 71:22 72:5 required 37:21 39:4 requirement 46:24 requirements 46:12 requires 39:18 Reread 70:17 resolution 66:13 respect 16:25 51:8 63:15 66:1 86:23 89:3 respond 7:17 45:11 71:2 72:4 responded 65:24 70:25 response 19:23 25:25 26:4 65:23 84:7 85:8 responses 8:12 responsibility 64:2 72:7 89:9 responsible 64:21 responsive 22:17 71:22 Restraining 34:20 result 78:10 retail 1:10 2:10 26:7 27:4,5 28:7 29:25 64:18,24 70:22 78:12 84:6 retained 80:20 retains 40:12 retroactively 48:7,10 revenue 78:5 revenues 78:12 review 8:1,5 33:13 52:12 58:21 59:25 61:24 62:1,7,24 71:6 reviewed 68:17,19 revocation 76:8 revoke 76:2,5 Rich 15:6 Richard 15:15 rid 65:7,13 66:24 right 6:17 7:7 16:15 26:24 28:9 31:16 34:10 36:19 40:7 42:16 48:22 53:5,5 53:11 55:6,17 56:22 58:2 59:11 65:22 69:2,22 70:25 74:10,13 79:2,13 83:2 85:11 86:3 88:9 right-hand 14:3,3 road 88:16 roads 13:20 role 80:22 rules 4 1: 10 run 13:19 R-a-y 5:15 R.R.S 31:17 S 3:8 sad 78:25 sales 78:8,9 same 7:12 18:22,24 28:4 72:23,24 84:24 86:13 San 10:23,25 satisfactorily 74:18 satisfactory 74:20 saw 31:5,9 33:16,23 36:1 41:14,17 49:21 69:21 saying 49:15 52:23 . 61:14 64:13 82:8 83:25 84:7,10 Saylor 2:20 says 34:10 36:17 37:21 44:10 46:16 53:21 55:2 59:6 69:3 76:17 78:15 78:16 schedule 56:10 schedules 56:13 school 8:22,23 9:1,3 Scott 49:6 53:20 55:9 56:17 57:7 second 6:9 7:10 24:1 38:2143:1 81:12 secretary 21:1 section 46:16 76:18 77:14 see 28:6 38:1 55:2 57:9 59:20 62:10 62:21 63:3 77:17 77:18 87:2188:8 seeing 55:16 57:12 seem 34:4 seemed 34:6 46:9 64:25 81:18. seems 81:19 seen 19:15 55:15 57:11 send 20:18 46:1 sense 16:23 21:23 65:2 78:13 sent 7:25 19:21 89:4 sentence 39:10,17 41:15 separate 63:10 Page 96 serve 12:1 13:10 16:1 18:24 43:17 68:6 services 10:13,16 13:22 80:9 session 24:6 63:20 75:18,24 76:16,17 77:4 83:16,16,17 sessions 22:23 23:3 setup 54:18,19 share 12:22 sheet 53:19 shipow 3:8 27:9 28:4 28:12 32:11,17 35:17 37:9 41:2 50:9 53:1,12 54:11 57:20 60:7,13 66:3 73:25 79:16,20 88:15,19 89:6,17 Shirley 86:12 Shomaker 87:15,16 shopping 14:2129:1 40:25 shorthand 2:20 5:8 63:5 - side 40:13° sign 8:120:15,15 31:14 34:9,13 45:22 50:16 78:21 89:8 signature 43:15 89:4 signed 31:10,18,24 31:25 32:2,5,6,8,9 32:13 33:24 43:21 43:22 45:19 46:5 48:3 50:22 56:2 61:1 75:12 89:11 89:14 signing 31:19,24 42:12 46:7,8 48:4 56:4 silver 1:19 2:19 5:5 5:15 19:10,17 30:13 61:23 62:12 66:7 76:19 78:16 86:23 88:24 89:4,7 89:19 simply 31:9 77:14 since 12:19 13:5 20:2 21:9 42:25 45:7 62:15 64:24 71:19 75:14 sir 68:15,16 sit 26:24 28:9 46:17 74:17 81:3,6 site 39:12 40:10 sitting 64:6 six 16:16 small 16:24 some 7:23 8:21 12:6 12:8 16:23 22:19 28:16 29:17 35:25 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00; BUkLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 36:147:15 51:2 52:2 54:21,22,23 63:2165.19 85:3,6 86:7 88:1 somebody 20:20 30:24 someone 19:25 34:24 79:5 something 20:16,17 65:25 68:25 69:10 84:11 Sometime 45:1 Somewhat 35:14 somewhere 6:21 28:22 36:1 sooner 51:21 sorry 17:11 27:14,15 27:18 33:15 37:12 38:24 48:9 58:9,20 61:19,20 70:16 sound 40:6 sounds 78:25 South 3:14 Southern 40:12 SP 71:5,7 87:24 speak 36:4 44:22 49:8 50:24 87:19 Speaker 87:2 speaking 77:3 special 46:11 specific 13:12 34:17 37:2,23 39:6,10,18 39:24 43:5,20 55:10 59:23 69:13 70:4,10,14 71:4 73:2 77:6 80:11 81:1 88:7 specifically 23:8 75:11 speculation 27:10 32:11 54:11 spell 5:13 11:24 split 43:1 spoke 45:1 87:8 SP-13 69:12,13 staff 21:10 48:25 49:2,5 65:25 66:11 66:15 68:6 70:25 72:10,12,12,13,14 72:20,20 80:8,19 stake 64:25.- standard 33:2134:6 34:1144:17 45:7 46:2 56:5 standards 37:24 39:7 start 11:11 39:2 51:20 started 11:10 45:2 starting 8:22 state 1:1 2:1,22 5:13 9:5,6,10,14 10:1,4 11:16,19 ' stated 84:11 statement 27:6 64:10 status 55:10 57:23 86:22 statutory 59:21 staying 75:15 stays 27:8 still 21:15 57:19 stipulate 88:18 stipulated 89:17 stipulation 88:20 stops 78:19 store 70:22 straight 63:11 street 3:9,14 5:17 25:5 stuff 53:6 subject 50:18 60:21 75:16,25 subjects 86:8 submission 62:1 submitted 41:16,19 52:9 61:23 62:3,4 62:12,25 63:1 68:10,21 submitting 52:4 Subpoena 19:19,20 Subpoenas 22:17 subsequent 51:7,9 subsequently 71:11' successful 28:7 65:2 66:17 sued 66:6 Suite 3:14 Sullivan 86:19 SUPERIOR 1:12:1 supervise 15:19, supervision 15:2 supervisor 11:22 12:10 13:24 support 73:5,6,9 supposed 6:9 sure 7:1126:22 30-9 30:10 31:20 34:10 36:7 39:3 40:8,22 54:9 82:19,22 83:15 89:20 surprised_86:4 sworn 5:7 synopses 82:3 S-i-1-v-e-r 5:15 take 10:2 12:15 23:19 30:8 36:6 37:18 51:17,24 53:22 60:5 61:21. 67:2169:6,8 taken 2:19 6:1 7:5,12 51:25 80:16 81:13 takes 16:15,21 taking 4:10 19:9,16 81:7 talk 16:20 43:8 48:2 48:5 52:2 55:22 84:22 86:19,24 87:2,12,13,17 88:8 talked 24:19 29:19 29:19 30:6,7 38:11 40:2148:3 49:3,4 56:167:5 85:4,19 85:23,24 86:4,9 talking 24:16 29:16 42:23 49:7 61:6 70:4 79:25 86:11 86:15,21 87:7 tax 78:8,8,9 tell 7:14 18:11,14 25:2131:2134:23 35:10 tells 18:17 Temporary 34:20 tenant 26:9,16 28:11 tension 40:13 tepper3:13 6:11,15 24:15 26:17 27:13 28:14 31:7 32:16 35:2138:8,11,16 38:20 42:7 43:7 44:146:19 47:17 47:20 48:10,12 52:17 58:8,10 60:15,19 66:5 69:18,23,25 70:16 76:12 77:3,8 78:21 82:16,19 83:15 88:17 89:5,7,8,11 89:18 term 41:3 63:5 terms 9:3 14:22 16:2217:2126:21 34:17 67:6 73:6,9 73:10 76:22,25 77:1,7,18,24 testified 5:9 83:4 testifying 7:13 testimony 8:9,19 28:13 37:10,11 42:8 43:7 44:2 47:17,21 74:2 text 39:19,25 43:19 55:12 Thank 27:20 37:21 47:22 51:23 56:22 56:23 58:9 76:12 79:17 89:21 their 25:9 26:127:24 36:2142:14 57:8 67:6 70:4 thing 45:2 54:2,3 84:24 88:2 things 16:9 44:18 51:20 75:16 think 6:8 7:1 17:16 19:2126:17,18 27:4 28:6 29:12,14 29:16 32:19,19 39:9 40:6 42:7 43:7 44:2,17 45:23 47:10,1148:14,16 51:18 53:10 56:1 65:14,14 70:12,23 75:24 78:20,24 79:1,2,12 81:12 82:14 83:13 85:6 86:1 87:18 88:1 third 6:16,17,19 7:3 though 22:12 33:7 65:16 thought 38:11,12 43:2 75:7 three 6:4,5 13:21 23:7,10,1162:2 80:4 through 1:12 2:12 9:20 10:1017:23' 20:18 46:11-56:8 57:17 62:16 77:20 till 14:15 16:12,14 79:9 time 16:5 23:17 24:15,22 25:2 31:5 34:13,16,19 38:20 38:2141:2150:1 52:17 56:9 57:17 75:16 85:6 98:14 times 6:3,4,5 25:12= 25:13 title 13:4 21:17 titles 12:25 today 7:25 8:9,17,19- 46:17,18 74:17 81:3,6 together 16:9 71:20 told 22:19 31:23 34:24 35:1,2 64:16 66:15 85:12 88:7 Tom 86:9,11 tomorrow 82:14,17 top 36:8 towards 80:22 town 79:2 track 33:6 42:20 tracked 33:7,8 tracking 54:23 57:24 transcript 7:18,24 7:25 8:6,7 89:4,8- 89:10,11,12,14 trash 20:17 Treasurer 13:15,18 tried 42.19 true 25:5 38:6,10 39:4,9,13,16 trusted 42:13 truth 7:14 . trying 7:2.16:9 28:17 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 97 65:3 85:1 tuchman 2:23 3:3,3 4:3 5:12 6:18 19:7 19:14 23:21,24 24:17,2126:23 27:11,16,19 28:1,8 28:19 30:11,14 31:11 32:14,21 35:19 36:2 37:13 37:17 38:9,14,18 38:22 39:1 41:6 42:9,15 43:9,14 44:4,9 46:23 47:18 47:22,23 48:11,18 50:11 51:17,22,24 52:1,19.22 53:4,9 53:13,17 54:13 56:20 57:4 58:1,6 58:9,14 60:8,22 66:10 67:19 68:1 69:20,24 70:2,6,20 74:3 76:13 77:5,11 78:23 79:14,17,18 80:1,2 81:2,11,14 82:20,2183:20 88:13,2189:1,19 89:21 tuesday 1:20 2:23 5:1 turn 89:11 Twenty-F-ust 3:9 twice 71:19 two 6:21,22 9:18 10:15 11:5 84:19 86A4 type 22:16 typed 30:20,21 31:21 33:11 Ubernaga 11:23 12:10,12 13:8 uh-huh 6:6 8:13 ultimate 64:1 ultimately 28:20 29:25 64:7,16 under 8:1,18 15:2 41:10 46:12 50:16 50:22 76:17 89:2 underneath 53:21 understand 7:15,19 7:20,22 8:3,10,15 28:14 35:16 48:4 66:5 80:24 understanding 41:4 77:14 understands 48:13 unethical 47:10,11 47:13 unhappiness 49:13 unhappy 46:4,7,7,8 unintelligible 8:12 RAY SILVER, 07.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER . 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HUNTINGTON CENTER 91 123 92648 5:19 9712:3 21.4 9814:15 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 99 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BU INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 3 4 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE ) OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 6 California Corporation, ) 7 Plaintiff, ) 8 vs. ) Case No. OOCC06309 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) a Delaware Limited Liability ) 10 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) a Delaware Limited Liability ) 11 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) Delaware Limited Liability Company, ) 12 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive, ) 13 Defendants. 1 14 15 16 17 18 DEPOSITION OF: 19 GUSTAVO A. DURAN 20 WEDNESDAY, JULY 26, 2000 21 22 23 24 25 1 I APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF- 3 AVIV L TUCHMAN & ASSOCIATES BY: AVIV L TUCHMAN, ESQ. 4 3435 Wilshire Boulevard 30th Floor 5 Los Angeles, California 90010 (213) 385-8000 6 7 8 FOR WITNESS DAVID C. BIGGS* 9 KANE, BALLMER & BERKMAN BY: R. BRUCE TEPPER, ESQ. 10 515 South Figueroa Street Suite 1850 11 Los Angeles, California 90071 (213) 617-0480 12 13 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 14 WHTTMAN, BREED, ABBOTT & MORGAN, LLP BY: MARK S. SHIPOW, ESQ. 15 633 West Fifth Street Twenty -First Floor 16 Los Angeles, California 90071 (213)896-2512 17 18 19 20 21 _ - 22 23 24 25 - J 3 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 INDEX 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 EXAMINATION BY Page 3 4 3 MR. TUCHMAN------------------------------ 6 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE ) 4 OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 5 6 California Corporation, ) 6 7 Plaintiff,) ) 7 8 EXHIBITS 8 vs. ) Case No. page. OOCC06309 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) 9 Plaintiffs Description Marked a Delaware Limited Liability ) 10 20 Notice of Deposition 9 10 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) 11 21 Statement of Interest 83 a Delaware Limited Liability ) 11 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) 12 22 Letter dated April 24, 2000 84 Delaware Limited Liability Company,) 13 23 Letter dated May 2, 2000 85 12 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive,) 14 24 Letter dated April 4, 2000 90 13 Defendan)tg 15 25 Letter dated April 10, 2000 91 — ) 16 26 Letter dated April 4, 2000 92 14 17 27 Letter dated April 17, 2000 100 15 18 28 Letter dated May 10, 2000 102 17 19 29 Letter dated May 12, 2000 104 18 20 30 Letter dated May 16, 2000 106 19 The Deposition of GUSTAVO A. DURAN, taken on 21 31 Memo dated May 26, 2000 113 20 behalf of the Plaintiff, before Amy Saylor, Certified 21 Shorthand Reporter No. 11560, Registered Professional 22 32 Letter dated June 2, 2000 116 22 Reporter, for the State of California, commencing at 23 23 9:36 a.m., on Wednesday, July 26, 2000, at the Law Offices 24 24 of Aviv L Tuchman & Associates, located at 3435 Wilshire 25 25 Boulevard, 30th Floor, Los Angeles, California. 2 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 41 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 EXHIBITS CONTINUED 1 Q. Okay. Have you ever had your deposition taken 2 2 before? 3 INFORMATION REQUESTED 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 (None.) 4 Q. Is that a "yes"? 5 5 A. Yea 6 WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER 6 Q. And how many times is that? 7 PAGE LINE 7 A. How many times was that? 8 55 17 8 Q. Yes. 9 91 13 9 A. Probably about four or five. 10 10 Q. Da you remember the last time you had your 11 11 deposition taken? 12 12 A. Yea 13 13 Q. When was that? 14 14 A. I don't remember the date, but it was when I 15 15 worked with the City of Buena Park. 16 16 Q. Have you had your deposition taken in connection 17 17 with any of your duties as an employee of the City of 18 18 Huntington Beach? 19 19 A. No. 20 20 Q. Okay. The oath that you've taken has the same 21 21 force and effect as if you were testifying in a court of 22 22 law and obligates you to tell the truth. 23 23 Do you understand that? 24 24 A. Uh-huh, I do. 25 25 Q. When you respond to questions, you are required 5 1 7 1 Wednesday, July 26, 2000; 9:36 a.m. 1 to answer verbally, meaning please avoid nods of the head 2 Los Angeles, California 2 and "uh-huhs" and "huh-uhs." 3 3 A. Correct. 4 4 Q. After the transcript is completed, you1I be 5 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 5 asked to review it and sign it under penalty of perjury. 6 called as a witness by and on behalf of the 6 Do you understand that? 7 Plaintiff, and having been first duly sworn by 7 A. Correct. 8 the Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined 8 Q. You can make changes to the transcript after the 9 and testified as follows: 9 transcript has been completed; however, if you make 10 10 changes, I or any counsel can comment on changes you make 11 EXAMINATION 11 subsequent to today. 12 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 12 Do you understand that? 13 Q. State and spell your name for the record, 13 A. I do. 14 please. 14 Q. In other words, please give us your best 15 A- Gustavo A. Duran. — 15 testimony. 16 Q. And your address and phone number, please. 16 Do you understand that? 17 A. My home address? 17 A. I do. 18 MR. TEPPER: No. 18 Q. If you respond to a question I'm asking or any 19 THE WITNESS: 2000 Main Street, Huntington Beach, 19 other attorney who may ask you questions, we will assume 20 California, 92648. You said phone number? 20 that you understand what is being asked of you. 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 21 Do you understand that? 22 Q. Yes, please. 22 A. I do. 23 A. (714) 374-1529. 23 Q. If for some reason you don't understand a 24 Q. And also your telefax number, please? 24 question, the question is vague, or doesn't make sense to 25 A. (714) 375-5087. 25 you, please ask me to clarify; okay? 6 1 8 2 (Pages 5 to 8) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I WOL Q. Is there some reason that we cannot proceed today? You`re under some kind of medication or disability that would prevent you from giving your best testimony today? A. There's no reason. Q. Thank you. Okay. MR. TUCHMAN: What exhibit number are we on, Amy? 17? 18? THE REPORTER: 20. MR. TUCHMAN: Let's start with 20. MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 20, this is the Notice of Deposition of Gustavo Duran, and this is — also contains the Subpoena with a request for documents. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 20 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 20? A. Let me take a look, okay. Q. Take your time. A. Yes. Q. Okay. And you received the Subpoena and you're here pursuant to that Subpoena; is that correct? A. Correct. Q. And did you prepare any documents in response to the Subpoena? A. I prepared a box of documents which I transferred to our legal counsel, Mr. Bruce Tepper, for him to deliver to you. Q. When you say "a box," a box of this size, a banker's box? A. That's the box. Q. And did you remove any documents from the box? A. No. We put them in. Q. Okay. You put all the documents in. And were you familiar with any documents that were withheld for any reason? A. No, only — it was only the one file which related to clewed session items. ---- Q. In whose possession was that one file that related to closed session items? A. My possession. Q. And could you tell me how thick that file.was? A. It was about this thick (indicating). Q. A little bit less than an inch? A. Uh-huh. Q. Is that a "yes"? A. Yes. 10 1 Q. Thank you. Now, did you contact — where else 2 did you go within — your offices are on the 5th floor? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Where else on the 5th floor did you go to 5 retrieve documents? 6 A. From David Biggs' offim 7 Q. Mr. Biggs. And where else? 8 A. That is it. 9 Q. Okay. Did you obtain documents from the Planning 10 Department? 11 A. Not of the records that were supplied. Let me 12 think, okay? No. The records that are from the Planning 13 Department were records that we had. They were given to us 14 during the process, but I did not go to obtain records from 15 the Planning Department: 16 Q. Okay. Are you aware if anybody from the City of 17 Huntington Beach asked the Planning Department directly for 18 their documents? 19 A. I'm not aware. 20 Q. Okay. 21 MR. TUCHMAN: Mr. Tepper, before Zelefsky's 22 deposition, we want to make sure we have the Planning ,23 documents. 24 MR. TEPPER: You do have them. 25 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. 11 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 Q. Now, are you aware of any documents which were 3 responsive — which are responsive to our Subpoena, which 4 pertain to Huntington Center, Burlington Coat Factory, 5 Ezralow, et cetera, where documents will be other than the 6 Economic Development Department and the Planning 7 Department? 8 A. I'm not aware of any other department that has 9 documents related to Burlington. 10 Q. Are you — or the Huntington Center? 11 A. Or Huntington Center. 12 Q. Are you aware if Ray Silver has a separate file 13 or separate documents? 14 A. I'm not aware. 15 Q. Okay. I want to go over your -- let's back up a 16 second. 17 Are you aware of any documents that may be 18 missing that you're still looking for? 19 A. I'm not aware of any documents I maybe missing. 20 Q. I want to go over your educational and then 21 employment background, starting with high school. 22 Did you attend high school? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What year did you graduate? 25 A. I graduated in 1966 from North Hollywood )ILIO Et ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 12 3 (Pages 9 to 12) 1 High School. 1 2 Q. Right over here. Okay. And did you have any 2 3 post high school education? 3 4 A. SigndkmL 4 5 Q. Please describe it. 5 6 A. I attended Pierce College. I went to Pierce 6 7 College for a couple of years in architectural discipline, 7 8 transferred to Cal Poly Pomona where I obtained my 8 9 Bachelor's degree in urban planning. I then moved on to 9 10 the University of Cincinatti where I obtained my Master's 10 11 degree in community planning, with an emphasis in housing 11 12 and economic development. I have two — what are they 12 13 called — certificates attending USC School of Management. 13 14 So I have two management certificates, plus numerous 14 15 seminars and courses over the — my working lifetime. 15 16 Q. What year did you get your B.A. from Cal Poly 16 17 Pomona? 17 18 A. It's a B.S.; 1971. 18 19 Q. What year did you get your Master's from the 19 20 University of Cincinatti? 20 21 A. 1973. 21 22 Q. And your two certificates from,the USC School of 22 23 Management, what were they in? 23 24 A. In business management 24 25 Q. Okay. Was there something more specific than 25 13 l . business management that — 1 2 A. No. The whole purpose of those certificates are 2 3 to be applicable to managers is private and public sectors 3 4 covering a whole array of courses from accounting to 4 5 computers to leadership courses, in a sense to be — for a 5 6 general manager of any operation. 6 7 Q. Please describe your employment history since 7 8 1973, briefly. 8 9 A. Briefly, 1973 I became a consultant — housing 9 10 consultant I consulted with the City of El Monte, City of 10 11 La Puente, City of Orange, County of Orange. In 1975 I 11 12 went to work for the City of Anaheim as a Housing and 12 13 Neighbor — wait a minute, Neighborhood Preservation 13 14 Coordinator. In 1979, I became an assistant to the 14 15 Director of Administration; the Governor, Jerry Brown. 15 16 1980, I was Assistant Chief for the Department Housing 16 17 Community Development for the State. Then I went to work 17 18 for the Capital Area Development Authority until about 18 19 1993. Capital Development Authority —Capital Area 19 20 Development Authority, C-A-D-A, is a State/City 20 21 Redevelopment Agency. 19- — I then went on to establish a 21 22 mortgage banking operation,1983; sold it in 1986 to Great 22 23 Western Real Estate; became a private developer of high -end 23 24- housing in the Granite Bay area of Sacramento, north area 24 25 of Sacramento. Due to the recession in '89, which hit 25 14 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 • BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Sacramento earlier, we bad to shut down the company. I then went on to work for the City of Buena Park in 1989 till 1998. 1998, started working with the City of Huntington Beach. Q. What was your title at Buena Park? A. Project Manager. Q. When did you join the City of Huntington Beach? A. June 8, 199It. Q. Now, is your employer the City of Huntington Beach or the City of Huntington Beach Redevelopment Agency? A. The employer is the City of Huntington Beach. Q. Okay. And you've worked continuously for the City of Huntington Beach since June 8, 1998, to present, which is July 2000? A. Correct Q. Has your title been the same? A. Yes Q. What is your title? A. Housing and Redevelopment Manager. Q. Have your duties been the same since you started with the City of Huntington Beach? A. Yes, they have been. Q. What are your duties? A. My duties are to manage the staff of eight people and implementing bossing and redevelopment projects 15 Q. What is a redevelopment project? A. What is a redevelopment project? Q. Yes. A. Any project that our office undertakes, which is financed with redevelopment funds. Q. What is the source of redevelopment funds? A. Tax increment financing. Q. And that can be in different types of taxes, property tax? A. No, tax increment financing is a property tax. We do, however, obtain funds from the Federal Government, home funds. CDBG funds, Community Development Block Grant funds, but those funds and those projects are sponsored under the City, not the Redevelopment Agency. Q. Since — you mentioned that you had a staff of eight people. Who are your current eight people? A. I don't have eight people. We've been short for quite a while. So I have Steve Holtz I have Leann Brunson. I have Tom Andreski, and I've had two consultants filling in on the interum, Joyce DeKreek — Q. Can you spell that name? A. DeKreek, D-e, capital K-r e-e k; and another consultant, Jim Beason. And then I have a part -- half person, Carol Runzeil. Those are the only positions we have — ob,1'm sorry, I have an assistant, Bobbi Purdue. 16-1 4 (Pages 13 to 16) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. Bobbi Purdue, she's an administrator assistant? 1 2 A. Yeah. 2 3 Q. Sbe's like a secretary? 3 4 A. Yeah. 4 5 • Q. Steve Holtz, has he in any way worked on the 5 6 Huntington Center or anything related to Huntington Center? 6 7 A. Not at all. 7 8 Q. Has Luann Brunson worked on anything related to 8 9 the Huntington Centel 9 10 A. Not at all. 10 11 Q. Has Tom Andreski worked on anything related to 11 12 Huntington Center? 12 13 A. He has worked on the Edinger Corridor study, 13 14 which encompasses the Huntington Center, but has no direct 14 15 relevance to the Huntington Center. 15 16 Q. Are you aware if there is a contract with 16 17 E-D-A-W, EDAW? 17 18 A. Yes. 18 19 Q. And has that contract been entered into between 19 20 the City and EDAW? 20 21 A. Has been entered Into? It was approved by the 21 22 City Council. I'm out so sure it has been fully executed. 22 23 Q. Okay. Any work that EDAW has done prior to 23 24 July 17th, 2000, was that work that vro paid for by 24 25 Ezralow? 25 17 1 A. Not that I'm aware of. 1 2 Q. Well, did the City pay EDAW for any work 2 3 performed prior to July 17th on the redevelopment of the 3 4 Huntington Center? 4 5 A. No. 5 6 Q. Okay. So if EDAW worked on anything at the 6 7 Huntington Center prior to July 17, 2000, it was not funded 7 8 by the City or the Redevelopment Agency? 8 9 A. Okay. Hang on. Not by the Redevelopment 9 10 Agency. EDAW may have done some work — EDAW has been a 10 11 consultant for the City over various years mostly on 11 12 planning issues and environmental Issues, so I'm not aware 12 13 of anything that they may have been engaged on by Planning 13 14 staff. let's say, or in relation to a general plan or any 14 15 other aspects. But in relationship to the work I do -- we 15 16 work in Economic Development — we have not engaged EDAW 16 17 for any particular purpose: 17 18 Q. Relating to Huntington Center? 18 19 A. Correct. 19 20 Q. Okay. What's Tom AndreskiS title? 20 21 A. Assistant Project Manager. 21 22 Q. Has the consultant, Joe DeKreek, worked on 22 23 anything related to Huntington Center Associates? 23 24 A. Joyce? 24 25 Q. I thought it was Joe DeKreek. Is it Joyce? 25 18 A. Joyce. It's a lady. Not at all. Q. Has Jim Benson worked on anything related to the Huntington Center? A. Not at alL Q. Has Carol Runzell worked on anything related to Huntington Center? A. Not at alL Q. Your title is the Housing and Redevelopment Manager; is that correct? A. Correct. Q. Who is your immediate supervisor? A. David Biggs. Q. Has David Biggs always been your immediate supervisor? A. Yes, he has, Q. What is his title? A. Director of Economic Development or Economic Development Director. I don't — one of those. Q. You're the Housing and Redevelopment Manager. And the department that you`re in is? A. The Economic Development Department. Q. Are there any other persons that are as high as you within the Economic Development Department? A. No. Q. Okay. So it goes Biggs, Duran, and then the rest 19 of the folks? A. Correct- There's three additional people that do business development work that do not report to me. Q. And those three persons are? A. Jim iamb; Eli NaBah, N-a-f-f-a-h; and Carol Runzell, who works mostly on business development. Q. Okay. And these people — those three people do not report to you? A. Correct. Q. Okay. Carol Runzell does for some of her duties though? A. Correct. And except when David Biggs is out for an extended time, then I am the acting department head. Q. Okay. Now, you have certain responsibilities relative to the Huntington Center? A. Correct. Q. What are those duties? A. To work with thi administration in implementing the redevelopment of the Huntington Center. Q. When you say "administration," do you mean the Planning Commission, the City council? A. No, David Biggs and Mr. Ray Silver. Q. Who is Ray Silver? A. He's the — in terms of redevelopment, he's the Executive Director of the Redevelopment Agency. He also JILIO Sit ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 20 5 (Pages 17 to 20) 1 happens to be the City Administrator. 1 2 Q. He wears two hats? 2 3 A. Correct. 3 4 Q. Now, do you have contact with Mr. Biggs on a 4 5 day-to-day basis? 5 6 A. Yes, I do. 6 7 Q. Are all actions that you take, Mr. Duran, 7 8 approved by Mr. Biggs? 8 9 A. Well, if they're actions that need his approval, 9 10 yes. If they're actions that do not need his approval, 10 11 then it's my responsibility to carry them out. t 1 12 Q. What type of actions need Mr. Biggs' approval? 12 13 A. Money, financial actions, or actions of 13 14 significant importance that have repercussions, either 14 15 political repercussions or sort of judgment that I — 15 16 judgment calls that, in my mind, he needs to pay attention 16 17 to, he may need to decide on. 17 18 Q. Are there any written policy guidelines relative 18 19 to the determination of when you need to consult with 19 20 Mr. Biggs and when you do not? 20 21 A. No, there isn't. 21 22 Q. You are authorized to sign on City of Huntington 22 23 Beach letterhead; correct? 23 24 A. Correct. 24 25 Q. When you send out letters on City of Huntington 25 21 1 Beach letterhead or Economic Development Department 2 letterhead of the City of Huntington Beach, do you always 3 need the authorization and approval of Mr. Biggs? 4 A. No, I don't 5 Q. Would you say more than half the time you do not 6 request his approval and authorization? 7 A. That's probably likely, depending on the nature 8 of the correspondence. 9 Q. Did you speak to Mr. Biggs about his deposition? 10 A. Yesterday? 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. I just asked him how it went 13 Q. What did he say? 14 A. He indicated do me that it went fine and he 15 answered most of the questions. --- 16 Q. Did you review any documents in preparation for 17 this deposition? 18 A. Not at alb 19 Q. Did you say anything else to Mr. Biggs? 20 A. Not really. 21 Q. Did he say anything else? 22 A. Not really. 23 Q. Did you meet or speak to Mr. Silver regarding his 24- deposition? 25 A. No, I didn't speak to Mr. Silver. 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 ' SURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q. You talked about Ray Silver. Who is Mr. Biggs' boss? A. Ray silver. Q. Do you ever report to Ray Silver as to your daily activities? A. When Mr. Biggs IS out on vacation or in conference and I'm the acting department head, I do have to work with Ray Silver. Q. Can you describe Mr. Ray Silver's duties as the Executive Director of the City of Huntington Beach Redevelopment Agency? A. He's the Chief Executive. He has to make key decisions as well as sign documents that require the Executive Director's signature. Q. Would you say that he's involved in the day-to-day aspect of running the Economic Development Department? A. No. Q. Would you say that be has contact with your department at least once a day? A. Very likely. Q. Okay. And has Mr. Biggs ever told you that Mr. Silver is not too interested in the Economic Development Department — MR. TEPPER: Objection. Without foundation. 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer the question. MR. SHIPOW: Also ambiguous. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer. A. What's the question again? Q. It was kind of cut off, but has Mr. Biggs ever told you that Mr. Silver is not too interested in the workings of the Economic Development Department? A. No. Q. Okay. Has Mr. Biggs advised you that he wants to become the City Administrator? A. No. MR. TEPPER- Objection. Go ahead. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Who is the highest elected official — highest not -elected official in the City Government? A. Not elected? Q. That's right A. Mr. Ray Silver. Q. Have you ever seen Mr. Ray Silver in the Economic Development Department? A. Yes, I have. Q. How often do you see him there? A. Oh, maybe once every three months. 24 6 (Pages 21 to 24) JILIO Bit ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. Okay. What is the relationship between the 1 2 Economic Development Department and the Planning 2 3 Department? 3 4 A. It's a normal relationship of any City that has a 4 5 Planning Department and an Economic Development 5 6 Department. We work together on issues that — which may 6 7 involve both departments, but pretty mach they carry on 7 8 their responsibilities and we carry on our 8 9 responsibilities, which are based on State Planning law and 9 10 based on State Redevelopment law. 10 11 Q. As far as you know, what are the duties of the 11 12 Planning Department? 12 13 A. To approve plans submitted by applicants, to 13 14 process zone changes, conditional use permits, general plan 14 15 amendments, to interface with the Coastal Commission, to 15 16 prepare future plans. 16 17 Q. And the head of the Planning Department is 17 18 Howard Zelefsky; correct? 18 19 A. Corte 19 W Q. Is Mr. Zelefsky higher or lower or the same level 20 21 of Mr. Biggs? 21 22 A. Same level. 22 23 Q. Do you supervise anyone in the Planning 23 24 Department? 24 25 A. Not at all. 25 25 1 Q. Do you ever give instructions to anyone in the 1 2 Planning Department? 2 3 A. Not at all. 3 4 Q. Does anyone in the Planning Department give you 4 5 instructions? 5 6 A. Not at all. 6 7 Q. Okay. To what extent does the Economic 7 8 Development Department rely on the Planning Department to 8 9 assist it in redevelopment? 9 10 A. As I indicated, we work with the Planning 10 11 Department. If we have to submit — we, ourselves, 11 12 sometimes have to submit applications to the Planning 12 13 Department for zone changes, conditional use permits, or 13 14 other matters, so we work with them, but that's about all 14 15 we do, you know. 15 16 Q. Under what conditions does the Economic 16 17 Development Department submit applications for zone changes 17 18 to a Planning Department? .. 18 19 A. When the particular project requires that we, 19 20 ourselves, Me the application. As a perfect example, 20 21 we're in charge of managing the Farmer's Market and Arts 21 22 and Crafts Fair at the pier. Well, that required that we 22 23 file a conditional use permit for it to be allowed at the 23 24 pier. 24 25, Q. Does -- when the Economic Development Department 25 P11 files an application, it really files the application on behalf of the Redevelopment Agency? A. It depends on the particulars. If it's City -owned property, it might be the City. If it's Redevelopment -owned property; it might be the Redevelopment Agency. Q. Is it sometimes both? A. Sometimes both. Q. Okay. In all situations where redevelopment has occurred at the City, has the Economic Development Department filed an application to get the redevelopment started with respect to filing a plan? A. No. MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous. MR. TUCHMAN: Did you get his answer? THE REPORTER. Yes. THE WITNESS: The answer is no, not in all cases; but in certain cases, yes. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Under what circumstances has the City in the past -- or not the City. Under what circumstances in the past has the Economic Development Department filed an application for zoning changes to get a specific plan filed relative to am - application on behalf of the City or the Redevelopment 27 Agency? A. On the Huntington Center, we did that back — I believe it was 1998, when Macerich was the owner. We filed as co -applicants with Macerich. Q. Any other times? A. No, because it's not done very often. Redevelopment projects don't occur every month or every year. Redevelopment projects can occur this year and another one will not — will not be implemented for another two or three years., Q. As far as you understand the Zoning and Ordinance provisions — you re familiar with those? A. Generally. Q. They call it Zs and Os? A. Excuse me? Q. Have you ever heard them called Zs and Os? A. No. MR. TEPPER: With all due respect, Mr. Tuchman, I have a planning degree and I've been in planning for 25 years and I've never heard them called Zs and Os. MR. TUCHMAN: Well take your deposition tomorrow. MR. TEPPER: No, you won't. You know, I don't know where that came from. THE WITNESS: I've never heard that terminology JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 28 7 (Pages 25 to 28) I before. 1 2 MR. TUCHMAN: That's okay. 2 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. 3 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 4 5 Q. With respect to the Zoning and Ordinance 5 6 provisions, is it your understanding that the -- if there 6 7 is a land owner who owns the land and wants to develop it 7 8 and files an application, that the City has to be the 8 9 co -applicant with that land owner? 9 10 MR. TEPPER: Hold on. that's an improper 10 11 hypothetical. Why don't you flesh it out a little bit? 11 12 MR. SHIPOW: Also calls for a legal conclusion. 12 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 14 Q. When a land owner wants to develop the property, 14 15 okay, and wants to redevelop it using the Redevelopment 15 16 Agency's assistance, is the land owner a co -applicant with 16 17 the Redevelopment Agency and the City of Huntington Beach? 17 18 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous. Calls for a 18 19 legal conclusion. Incomplete hypothetical. 19 20 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 21 Q. You can answer. 21 22 MR. TEPPER: Do you know the answer? 22 23 THE WITNESS: It varies. And as far as 23 24 understanding the legalities of the zoning ordinance, I 24 25 don't, because that is not my job to interpret or 25 29 1 administer the zoning ordinance. 1 2 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 3 Q. Whose job is that? 3 4 A. That's the Planning Department's. 4 5 Q. Okay. That's fair. Now, you're familiar with 5 6 the Specific Plan No. 12 that was submitted? 6 7 A. Yes, I am familiar with it. 7 8 Q. What's the difference between 12 and 13? 8 9 A. I don't know the difference between 12 and 13. 9 10 My understanding might be that 12 was the initial 10 11 submittal, and then the other -- the next one was a 11 12 redrafting of the plan. 12 13 Q. Do you know why it was numbered 12? 13 14 A. I don't know. 14 15 Q. It's more a Planning question-T 15 16 A. Correct. 16 17 Q. Do you know if there were Specific Plans 1 17 18 through 11? 18 19 A. I'm not familiar. I don't know. 19 20 Q. And do you know who initially drafted Specific 20 21 Plan No. 12? 21 22 A. No, I don't 22 23 Q. Has the Economic Development Department engaged, 23 24 meaning, signed a contract with Greenberg & Associates 24 25 Architects? 25 30 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. No. Q. To your knowledge, has the Economic Development Department or any Agency of the City of Huntington Beach paid Greenberg & Associates? A. No. Q. I want you to take a look at Exhibit 3, which was previously marked. MR. TUCHMAN: Do you guys have it out? BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Have you ever seen Exhibit 3 before? Exhibit 3 is the privileged log, the first two pages, Exhibit 3, of the privileged log. A. I may have seen it. I can't recall, but I may have seen it, because we were preparing the documents to send to Mr. Tepper and I had two staff members putting the -- what do you call it -- the list of documents together, but I don't remember seeing the details. Q. Okay. This looks like the list of documents -- the list was -- the list of documents produced was this list here? A. Correct. Q. Okay. I think this was also partof -- we U just mark this 3-A. This willbe 3-B. This list was prepared by you? A. Prepared by our office. I had two staff members •31 going through each of the files, cataloguing the documents so we could transfer them over to Mr. Tepper. Q. Very good. A. But I did not review each item to see which .- we basically turned over the tiles, we put the catalogue in, and I did not review what was in the documents. Q. Okay. . MR. SHIPOW: I don'tthink that I have that. If I could get a copy before we leave. MR. TUCHMAN: Well get you a copy of it. MR. SHIPOW: Is that going to be part of Exhibit 3? MR. TUCHMAN: 3-B. MR. SHIPOW: Okay. MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to put this up here. Just remind me. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You weren't involved in determining what documents should not be produced; am I correct? A. I was involved in malting sure that all the filed documents were produced, and I had a We that was not produced because that was part of our closed session documents which, I believe, are protected under some State redevelopment law. Bruce? Q. It's okay, Mr. Duran. Are you able to tell me 32 8 (Pages 29 to 32) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 if Exhibit 3 or 3-A, these first two pages, was that 1 2 everything in the file? Are you able to tell me that? 2 3 A. Correll. 3 4 Q. Okay. 4 5 A. Now I'm recollecting. Yeah, this was prepared by 5 6 our of&v— 6 7 Q. Okay. Good. Did you attend any closed sessions 7 8 of the City Council/Redevelopment Agency wherein anything 8 9 pertaining to Huntington Center was discussed? 9 10 A. Yes, I did. 10 11 Q. How many of those did you attend? 11 12 A. I think there might have been only about three of 12 13 those. 13 14 Q. When were those meetings? 14 15 A. I don't recollect the particular dates. 15 16 Q. Were they in 1999 and 2000? 16 17 A. Yes, they were. 17 18 Q. Was anybody from Ezralow present at any of these 18 19 closed sessions? 19 20 A. They were not. 20 21 Q. Can you tell me who was present at any of these 21 22 sessions? 22 23 A. The Redevelopment Agency Board — 23 24 Q. That's also the City Council? 24 25 A. Correct. The City administrator, Mr. David 25 33 1 Biggs, Mr. Murray Kane, Mr. Jim Rabe. That's a guy from I 1 2 Keyser Marston & Associates. Those are the people I 2 3 recollect being there. 3 4 Q. Who's Keyser Marston & Associates? 4 5 A. They're an economic consultant firm. 5 6 Q. Hired by the City and Redevelopment Agency? 6 7 A. Hired by the Redevelopment Agency. 7 8 Q. For what purpose? 8 9 A. To provide us with independent financial analysis 9 10 of transactions we may be involved in doing or 10 11 understanding the strengths of the developer, the 11 12 weaknesses of the developer, the strengths and weaknesses 12 13 of a particular developer proposal, any and all sorts of 13 14 economic types of analysis that we may desire to undertake. 14 15 Q. Have you heard of a company called Saybrook, 15 16 S-a-y-b-r-o-o-k? -- 16 17 A. Yes, I have. 17 18 Q. Who is that? 18 19 A. They are — they're also a financial consultant. 19 20 Q. Hired by the City? 20 21 A. No. 21 22 Q. Hired by the Redevelopment Agency? 22 23 A. No. 23 24 Q. Do you know who hired Saybrook? 24 25 A. CIM hired Saybrook. 25 34 Q. Who is CIM? A. It's a development company here in Los Angeles. Q. What relationship does Saybrook have to the Huntington Center's project? A. Let me think. I'm not so sure. Ezralow also may have hired them, okay. Q. Okay. A. Because -- so they may also be hired by Ezralow. And what was the question again, the part of your question? Q. Do you know who hired Saybrook, I think, was -- A. Those are the two firms that may have hired them. For sure CIM. Q. Does CIM have anything to do with Huntington Centers? A. Not at all. Q. Have you ever heard of Mt. Holly Associates? A. Yes. Q. Who is Mt. Hotly Associates? A. They are a financial consultant also. Q. Hired by the City or the Redevelopment Agency? A. No. Q. Do you know who hired them in connection with the Huntington Center Associates? A. The only one who could have hired them is Ezralow. 35 Q. Did you ever speak to anyone from Mt. Holly Associates? A. Yes Q. How many times? A. Probably a couple times. Q. What did you talk to them about? A. Not individually. It was in relationship to meetings we had. Q. Meetings you had pertaining to what? A. Ezralow and Huntington Center. Q. What did you discuss with them? A. Forst we discussed the capacity of Ezralow to do the — to undertake the project at Huntington Center. Q. Have you at the Redevelopment Agency or the Economic Development Department determined that Ezralow has the capacity to do the project? A. Yes, we have determined that. Q. Okay. And what else did you talk about -- who was the person you spoke to from this Mt. Holly? A. What is his name? Q. Is it Mark Picket? A. Mark Picket. Q. What were the other conversations you had with Mark Picket? A. I did not have individual conversations They )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 36 9 (Pages 33 to 36) 1 were part of a meethg, as I indicated. 1 2 Q. What were the other conversations that you were 2 3 privy to with Mark Picket? 3 4 A. Those were the only conversations where he 4 5 came — he attended meetings and he provided information 5 6 for as — for the Redevelopment Agency, to determine the 6 7 capacity of Ezralow to do the work that they were intending 7 8 to do. 8 9 Q. And what types of things did you analyze? Did 9 10 you analyze their track record as well as financial 10 11 ability? 11 12 A. Correct 12 13 Q. Any other areas that you analyzed? 13 14 A. No, that's it 14 15 Q. Okay. Now, did you have any conversations or did 15 16 you have -- were you privy to any conversations at meetings 16 17 with persons from Saybrook Capital? 17 18 A. They were the same meetings, as I indicated. 18 19 And, again, it was the same — same purpose of those 19 20 meetings. 20 21 Q. To determine whether Ezralow had the capacity and 21 22 ability to develop Huntington Center Associates — 22 23 A. Correct 23 24 Q. -- Huntington Center Shopping Center. 24 25 Do you know who Rebecca Casey is? 25 37 1 A. She's the principal — I think she's the 1 2 principal of Saybrook who attended the meetings. 2 3 Q. And have you ever heard of Carol Freholm? 3 4 A. No. I've heard the name, but I don't know who 4 5 she is. 5 6 Q. Have you ever heard of Lynn Sedway, S-e-d- — 6 7 A. Oh, yes. 7 8 Q. Who is that? 8 9 A. She also represents a financial arm hired by the 9 10 City/Redevelopment Agency to analyze market conditions, 10 11 also conduct feasibility studies. We use them — we use 11 12 Sedway as well as Keyser Marston for the same purposes. 12 13 Q. Has the Economic Development Department, acting 13 14 as an Agency of one or the other, City of Huntington Beach 14 15 or the Redevelopment Agency of the City of Huntington 15 16 Beach, hired any consultants/experts of any kind to analyze 16 17 Burlington Coat Factory? 17 18 A. Not at all 18 19 Q. Okay. Have there been any type of — 19 20 A. Wait Wait I've hired appraisers, appraisers 20 21 and fixture and equipment appraisers to appraise the 21 22 Burlington Coat Factory property. 22 23 Q. And that's -- when did you do that? 23 24— A. Recently, in the last couple of months. 24 25 Q. And the name of the real estate appraiser is? 25 38 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. Donahue & Company. Q. And the F&E appraiser company is? A. Donahue Novak & Associates Valuation Services. Q. What information have you provided Donahue & Company, the real estate people? A. I have not provided them any information other than their authorization to proceed with their appraisal. Q. Why do you want an appraisal of Burlington Coat Factory? A. We need to understand the whole financial impact of the proposal submitted by Ezralow to be able to determine what role the Redevelopment Agency might take in the future, both financially and otherwise. Q. Is that inclusive of contemplating what a potential gap might be? A. That's part of it Q. What else? A. Well, there's a whole series of actions that we could take. We haven't determined those yet Q. What are the series of actions or options? A. It varies depending on what the developer needs. We don't try to anticipate what may be needed to carry out a project. Q. My question — A. It's a step-by-step process, and we have not even 39 gotten to the first base in this particular case. We selected the developer, Ezralow, and we have not determined what actions may be necessary to carry out the redevelopment of the center. Q. What options have you discussed with Ezralow relative to Burlington Coat Factory? A. We have not discussed any particular actions because we have not determined what has to occur at the center yet Q. Are you involved in the OPA negotiations? A. Indirectly, yes. Q. Who is principally involved from the City or Redevelopment Agency side with respect to negotiating the OPA? A. David Biggs and Murray Kane, who is our legal counsel, special legal counsel Q. And do you anticipate when the OPA will be completed? A. No, I don't know. Q. Do you know what a DDA is? A. Yes, I do. Q. Is this an OPA or a DDA? A. This should be an owner participation agreement The owner is already in place. They own the Huntington Center. You only do a disposition development agreement 40 10 (Pages 37 to 40) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 13UGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 when you're trying to acquire other property. I don't I 1 2 think the Anal document has really been decided upon. 2 3 Q. Very good Now, the fixtures and equipment 3 4 expert, Donahue Novak, have you provided them any 4 5 information? 5 6 A. No, just then: authorization to proceed. 6 7 Q. Okay. Now, am I correct that these appraisals 7 8 may also be used for you to contemplate a condemnation 8 9 procedure? 9 10 A. If that's what's called for, but that decision 10 11 has not been made. 11 12 Q. Okay. Have you, Mr. Duran, ever made any 12 13 comments to anyone from Ezralow or Ezralow's 13 14 representatives that the City or the Redevelopment Agency 14 15 will use its police powers to get rid of Burlington Coat 15 16 Factory? 16 17 A. Not at all 17 18 Q. Have you ever heard that statement made by any 18 19 employee or elected official at the City of Huntington 19 20 Beach? 20 21 A. Not at aA. I think I've heard it more from you 21 22 and your associates than anybody else. 22 23 Q. Have you heard of Melanie Fallon? 23 24 A. Yes, I have. 24 25 Q. Who is Melanie Fallon? 25 41 1 A. She used to be the Assistant City Administrator. 1 2 Q. Do you know when she left? 2 3 A. I think she left a couple of months back. I'm 3 4 not certain of the date. 4 5 Q. Was it in June of 2000 or May of 2000? 5 6 A. It may have been at the end of May. 6 7 Q. Okay. 7 8 A. But I'm not certain. You'll have to check the 8 9 City records. 9 10 Q. Now, she was the Assistant City Administrator, 10 11 you said? 11 12 A. Correct. 12 13 Q. You got therein June 1998. Was she already 13 14 there in that position? 14 15 A. No, she was the bead of the Community Development 15 16 Departmett when I arrived with the-ity of Huntington 16 17 Beach:. 17 18 Q. And when did she become the Assistant City 18 19 Administrator 19 20 A. Probably about = either at the end of '" or the 20 21 beginning of'". 21 22 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any conversations with 22 23 Melanie Fallon relative to Burlington Coat Factory? 23 24 A. Not at all. 24 25 Q. Lid you ever have any conversations with 25 42 Melanie Fallon relative to the redevelopment of the Huntington Center? A. Not at all. Q. What involvement are you aware that Melanie Fallon had as the Assistant City Administrator working with Ray Silver in the redevelopment project at Huntington Center? A. Minimal, if any. I'm not aware of she being involved. Q. Did you ever see any memos authored by Melanie Fallon relative to the redevelopment of the Huntington Center? A. No. Q. Is there anyone else in Ray Silver's office or that Ray Silver works directly with besides his secretary and Melanie Fallon? I know she's gone now, but is there anyone else? A. That works in what respect? Q. That works in the City Administrator's office, anyone with him? A. He has a stall, but I don't know the number of people in the staff or their. functions.. Q. Is there anybody on Mr. Silver's staff that you, as the Director of Housing and Redevelopment, have worked in connection with the redevelopment of the Huntington., 43 Center? A. My title is Housing and Redevelopment Manager. Q. I'm song? A. The question again? Q. The question is: In your capacity as the Housing and Redevelopment Manager, have you worked with anyone in Mr. Silver's staff in connection with the redevelopment of the Huntington Center? A. No. Q. Okay. How many times have you met with Ezralow persons or representatives? A. Several times, and I don't recall the number of times. Q. Is that both in 1999 and 2000? A. Yes. Q. Who have you met from Ezralow? A. Bryan Ezralow, Doug Gray. There's a couple of other people. I don't remember their names because sometimes I attend the meettep but there was no list or anything passed around. Q. Scott Dinovitz? A. Scott Dinovitz. You're right. Scott Dinovitz and his father, Mr. Dinovitz. I forget his first name. Q. Lawrence Dinovitz? A. I don't remember his first name. 44 11 (Pages 41 to 44) 3ILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 Q. Okay. And have you ever met an attorney named 1 2 James Hughes? 2 3 A. Yes, I have. 3 4 Q. When you've met with these people, what has 4 5 Mr. Bryan Ezralow stated to you? 5 6 A. What has he stated to as? 6 7 Q. Yes. 7 8 A. The meetings we had were in relationship to 8 9 knowing his company, understanding his company, and 9 10 understanding their vision for the Huntington Center. 10 11 Q. All right. What conversations have you had with 11 12 Doug Gray? 12 13 A. Conversations? Again, they were in relationship 13 14 to meetings. Other than those conversations, they have 14 15 been at the City Council meetings which you have attended 15 16 They're very -- just friendly conversations, but other than 16 17 us requiring documents, requesting documents from Ezralow 17 18 and plans and brochures and the videos. 18 19 Q. What conversations have you had with 19 20 Scott Dinovitz relative to the Huntington Center? 20 21 A. The only conversation I've had with him is where 21 22 I requested plans so that we could make them available to 22 23 you because the blueprints are very large and we don't have 23 24 access to those plans. 24 25 Q. And how many times have you met James Hughes? 25 45 1 A. Two times. 1 2 Q. And when were those times? 2 3 A. I don't remember the dates. I don't remember the 3 4 dates, but I think they were earlier this year. 4 5 Q. Why did you meet with James Hughes twice? 5 6 A. Because he came to the meetings with Mr. Bryan 6 7 Ezralow and Doug Gray. 7 8 Q. The closed session meetings? 8 9 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 9 10 testimony. 10 11 MR. TEPPER: That's all right. 11 12 THE WITNESS: Not the closed session meetings. 12 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 14 Q. Which meetings? 14 15 A. Meetings we had with the Ezralow Company. 15 16 Q. Are there any memos which reflect those meetings? 16 17 A. No. 17 18 Q. How long did those meetings last where 18 19 James Hughes attended? 19 20 A. Probably about an hour or so. 20 21 Q. And what was.discussed with James Hughes? 21 22 A. He basically was there to provide legal counsel 22 23 to his client, and that involved basically discussions 23 24- about Huntington Center. 24 25 Q. Anything else? 25 46 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. Not really. Q. Did you ever have any conversation or did you ever hear Mr. James Hughes speak about Burlington Coat Factory? A. He indicated that they had a lease with Burlington coat, a 30-year lease, and they had difficulty with that lease. Q. What does that mean, "They had difficulty with thatlease"? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for speculation. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer the question. MR. SHIPOW: Don't — you're asking the witness to speculate as to what Mr. Hughes meant? MR. TUCHMAN: You can ask him questions later, Mr. Shipow. . MR. SHIPOW: I'm interested in making sure the record is clear. I object. Calls for speculation as to what Mr. Hughes meant. MR. TUCHMAN: Very good Make objections. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer. A. What is the question again? Q. Do you know what he meant when he said there are difficulties with the lease? 47 MR. SHIPOW: Same objections. THE WITNESS: I do not know what he meant. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Did you have any sense of what he was talking about? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous. THE WITNESS: Not really. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Did somebody describe at the meeting in detail or try and illustrate what difficulty there was with the Burlington Coat Factory lease? A. Oh, they had a 30-year lease. That's about all I know, and they aim to reposition the center and the marketplace, and apparently they find it di®cult to deal with the 30-year lease and their plans they're trying to implement. Q. There was a word that I didn't understand. You said "reposition"? A. Reposition the center. Q. When that discussion came up, did the City or anyone from the City respond to the concern that Hughes expressed? A. We just commensurated with Mr. Hughes. Q. What does that mean? A. Meaning, we understand the situation he 48 12 (Pages 45 to 48) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00, BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 explained, but there's not mach we can do about it because I 1 2 we're not — we're not the landlord We're not the owner 2 3 of the property. 3 4 Q. Did you tell — did you give him any instructions 4 5 on how to deal with Burlington Coat Factory? 5 6 A. Not at all. 6 7 Q. Did anyone from the City say that the City or the 7 8 Redevelopment Agency will use its powers to get rid of 8 9 Burlington? 9 10 A. Not at all. 10 11 Q. Did Mr. Hughes ever report to you their attempts 11 12 to negotiate with Burlington Coat Factory? 12 13 A. They indicated to us they've had meetings with 13 14 Burlington Coat. 14 15 Q. And what was said? 15 16 A. I don't know what was said. 16 17 Q. Well, what was reported to you? 17 18 A. That the meetings had not gone well. They've 18 19 been rebuffed by Burlington Coat personnel, and that they 19 20 were impasse. 20 21 Q. Do you know any of the details of what was 21 22 discussed between Burlington and Ezralow? 22 23 A. Not at ail. 23 24 Q. Now, have you heard anybody at the City, an 24 25 elected official or non -elected person, indicate that they 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 do not want Burlington Coat Factory at the center? A. Not at all. Q. In your position as the Housing and Redevelopment Manager, have you made any determination one way or the other as to whether Burlington Coat Factory should remain in Huntington Center? A. That has not been determined. Q. Is it your decision to make, Mr. Duran? A. No. Q. Whose decision is it to make? A. The Redevelopment Agency Board. Q. And has the Redevelopment Agency Board made the determination? A. Not at all. Q. As of right now, is it the Redevelopment Agency Board's decision? A. To do what? Q. To determine right now, as we sit here today, on July 26th, 2000, as to whether Burlington Coat Factory should be one of the tenants? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous. THE WITNESS: Not at all. The answer is "not at all." BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. And to determine who is to be a tenant at the 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 tl 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Huntington Center, that's a decision by Ezralow or one of its entities; isn'tthat right? A. Coned. Q. All right. Has the Agency — the Redevelopment Agency or the Economic Development Department told Ezralow, "Do not include Burlington Coat Factory in anything you submit to us"? A. Not at all. Q. Okay. Has the Planning Department or any other department, to your knowledge, instructed Ezralow to not include Burlington Coat Factory in any proposals it submits for redevelopment? A. Not at all. Q. Has the Redevelopment Agency or the Economic Development Department instructed Ezralow to include Burlington in its proposal? A. Not at afi" Q. Right now the position of the Economic Development Department and you, as the Housing and Redevelopment Manager, towards Burlington is what? A. Mutual. Q. You re familiar with the the SP-12 and SP-13 to a certain degree? A. I'm familiar with the documents because they were provided to our office for review and analysis. 51 Q. Why were those documents provided to your office for review and analysis? A. Because all phtns submitted to the Planning Department get routed to all the departments for their review and analysis. This includes Public Works, fire department, police department, to see if there is anything there that will impact those departments or those departments have any information that will impact those plans. Q. Okay. Did the Economic Development Department, after receiving any plan, respond to the Planning Department in any way that pertained to Burlington Coat Factory? A. Not that I remember, no. Q. You were involved in that process, were you not? A. Yeah, I think one man or two men were detailing our concerns from our economic development perspective. Q. Okay. Do you know when the property closed; meaning, when the deal closed for Ezralow to buy the property? A. I think it was November or December of 19". Q. Was there a meeting the night before escrow closed, a closed session? A. I don't remember because I don't know the dates. Q. We previously had marked Exhibit 6, if you want 52 13 (Pages 49 to 52) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 .,to 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24-- 25 to take a look at it. This is page 3 of the Council Minutes. If you look up at the top, it refers to a "closed session." A. Okay. What about it? Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 6? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. Were you in attendance at this meeting on 11/15/99? A. Yes. Q. What happened at that meeting? A. Basically we -- the Redevelopment Agency felt comfortable with Ezralow purchasing the property. Q. Were there any representations made on November 15, 1999, to Ezralow, promises made by the Redevelopment Agency or the City? A. No promises. Q. Was Burlington Coat Factory discussed at the meeting on 11/15/99? A. Not that I remember. Q. Was Burlington Coat Factory discussed at any closed sessions in 1999? A. Not in 19". Q. In the year 2000 Burlington Coat Factory was discussed in closed sessions? A. Yes. 53 Q. How many times? A. One time. Q. And that time was on July 17, 2000? A. Yes. Q. And that had to do with the — A. lawsuit — MR. TEPPER: Ask the question, please. BY MR. TUCHMAN. Q. And that had to do with the instant lawsuit? - A. Can you ask the question — MR. TEPPER: Ask the whole question so that I may interpose my objection. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. The only time Burlington Coat Factory was discussed at a closed session meeting was one time and that was July 17, 2000? MR. TEPPER: You can answer "yes" or "no." THE WITNESS: -Yes. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. And were there different items agendas or was it one item pertaining to Burlington? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Ambiguous. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Well, you know what an RCA is, an RAA? A. Correct 54 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. Was there one item or two items pertaining to 2 Burlington? 3 A. The RCA and RAA have nothing to do with the 4 closed session. 5 Q. Okay. The closed session — were there one or 6 two issues discussed at the closed session regarding 7 Burlington? 8 A. Just one issue. 9 Q. What was the issue? What was the topic? 10 MR. TEPPER: Only give the subject matter. But 11 subject to that subject matter answer, everything else is 12 objected to on the grounds of attorney/client privilege. 13 Give the subject matter of the closed session related to 14 Burlington. 15 THE WITNESS: Real estate appraisal. 16 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 Q. Okay. And what was discussed regarding the real 18 estate appraisal? 19 MR. TEPPER: Objection. Attorney/client 20 privilege. 21 MR. TUCHMAN: And any further questions on the 22 closed session, you ll object? 23 MR. TEPPER: No, I want to hear questions. 24 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 25 Q. Who was in attendance in the meeting? 55 1 MR. TEPPER: You can answer that. 2 THE WITNESS: Murray Kane, David Biggs, 3 Ray Silver, the Agency Board, minus Mayor Garfalo 4 (phonetic). He was not there. 5 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 6 Q. Was a resolution or decision made after that 7 closed session? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And what was that decision? 10 MR. TEPPER: Was it given -- ask if it it was 11 given in public session. 12 BY MR TUCHMAN: 13 Q. Was it given in public session? 14 A. I don't know because I did not stay for the 15 public session. 16 MR. TEPPER: Okay. If you don't know, then I 17 will object. 18 MR. TUCHMAN: He just said he doesn't know. 19 MR. TEPPER: Okay. 20 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 22 Q. And was a resolution arrived at in the closed 23 session, whether it was announced or not? 24 MR. TEPPER: You can answer that. 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. 56 1 14 (Pages 53 to 56) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25= BY MR. TUCH]MAN: Q. Did you participate in the discussion? A. Not at alL Q. I want you to take a look at Exhibit 7, which was previously marked. Take a look at Exhibit 7. Have you ever seen Exhibit 7 before? A. Let me look at it first. Q. Please. A. Yes, I have. Q. When is the first time you saw Exhibit 7? MR. TUCHMAN: And, for the record, that's the memo dated June 5, 2000, from Ray Silver to Howard Zelefsky. THE WITNESS: I saw it right prior to the City Council meeting where the specific plan was submitted for approval. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. That was July 5, 2000? A. Sounds about right. Q. Do you know who typed up Exhibit 7? A. No, I do not. Q. Okay. Did you ever discuss Exhibit 7 with anyone around June 5, 2000? A. Not at all. Q. I want you to take a look at Exhibit 15. 57 MR. TUCHMAN: I think you folks have it, and Exhibit 15 -- the last page is another copy of Exhibit 7. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Do you recognize the — A. Okay. What about it? Q. Look at the third page. Do you recognize this writing at the bottom, this code? A. It's whoever typed the document generated iL Q. Do you know who typed the document from looking at this code? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for. speculation. THE WITNESS: I don't know because it's not in a way that I can tell the name. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Do you recognize this as — what was Jane James' maiden name? — A. Jane Madera, which is here. Q. Yeah. Do you know if this is a code that is used by the Economic Development Department? A. No, we use a little differently. Q. Okay. Do you recognize this as a code that Planning used? A. I don't — I can't tell. Q. That's fine. Did you discuss Exhibit 7 with anybody, ever? 58 1 A. Not at all. 2 Q. This is Exhibit 7 here. Do you know how it came 3 about? 4 A. How it came about? I don't know how it came 5 about. 6 Q. Very good- 7 A. I was not involved in anything relating to that. 8 Q. Thank you. You understand there is now an issue 9 relative to Exhibit 7 and its impact on the lawsuit between 10 Ezralow and Burlington? 11 . MR. TEPPER: Objection to the form -- to the use 12 of the word "issue" as relevant. It certainly is 13 argumentative. 14 MR. SHIPOW: Argumentative and ambiguous. 15 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 16 Q. You can answer the question. 17 MR. TEPPER: You better ask it again. Read the 18 question, please. 19 (Whereupon the previous question was read 20 back by the court reporter as requested.) 21 THE WITNESS: I don't know what issue you're 22 talking about. 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 24 Q. Thank you. Were you involved — if 1 say "RFP," 25 what does that mean? F11] A. Request for Proposal. Q. What is an RFP? A. It's a request to various parties to submit a 4 proposal for a variety of things, all the way from 5 contracting to perform appraisals to consider the 6 redevelopment of a piece of property. Cities and 7 redevelopment agencies use Request for Proposals for many 8 actions that they may wish to undertake. 9 Q. Did you -- take a look at Exhibit 9. Were you 10 involved — first of all, what is Exhibit 9? 11 A. I.et me read It first 12 Q. Please. Take your time. " 13 A. Okay. What is the question? 14 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 9? 15 A. Yes, I do. 16 Q. What is exhibit 9? 17 A. Exhibit 9 is a Request for a Statement of 18 Interest and a Request for Proposal from the Redevelopment 19 Agency to the property owners or long-term leaseholders of 20 Huntington Center. 21 Q. Did you prepare Exhibit 9? 22 A. It was prepared by our legal counsel, Mr. Murray 23 Kane. 24 Q. Okay. Did you participate in any part of its 25 preparation, Exhibit 9? 60 15 (Pages 57 to 60) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED. COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 A. I was responsible for ensuring that it get typed 1 2 and sent out to the parties involved. 2 3 Q. Okay. Thank you. And you received how many 3 4 responses? 4 5 A. We received three responses, one from Burlington 5 6 Coat; one from Montgomery Ward; and one from Ezralow 6 7 Company. 7 8 Q. Did you ever review — and you received those 8 9 three Statements of Interest; am I correct? 9 10 A. Correct. 10 11 Q. The R for Ps, you sent out to Burlington; you 11 12 sent out to Ezralow; you sent it out to Montgomery Ward's. 12 13 Did you send it out to anybody else? 13 14 A. Yes, I did, long-term leaseholders at the 14 15 Huntington Center,, which included Circuit City, the book 15 16 store. 16 17 Q. Barnes & Noble? 17 18 A. Barnes & Noble- I think even See's Candy. There 18 19 were other — anybody that had a long-term lease at the 19 20 center was sent a letter of interest- 20 21 Q. Mervyn's? 21 22 A. Mervyn's. 22 23 Q. And Southern California Edison? 23 24 A. Not Southern California Edison. 24 25 Q. Okay. Did Circuit City, Barnes & Noble, See's, 25 61 1 or Mervyn's respond? 1 2 - A. Not at all. 2 3 • Q. Okay. Now, at some point you also received 3 4 proposals around May 2, 2000; am I right? 4 5 A. Correct. 5 6 Q. And there were three proposals that were received 6 7 from -- one from Burlington, one from Ezralow, one from 7 8 Montgomery Ward? 8 9 A. Correct. 9 10 Q. And it was determined by the Redevelopment Agency 10 11 that really only one of them was suitable?' 11 12 A. Correct. 12 13 Q. And that one was Ezralow's? 13 14 A. Correct. 14 15 Q.. And that determination was made on June 19th, 15 16 2000?- 16 17 A. Uh-huh. 17 18 Q. Is that a "yes"? 18 19 A. Yes, 19 20 Q. Did you discuss the Burlington proposal with any 20 21 Planning staff members between May the 2nd, 2000, and 21 22 June 19th, 2000? 22 23 A. No. 23 2* Q. Did you review the Burlington Coat Factory lease 24 25 at any time? 25 62 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. No. Q. Okay. Has anybody told you what terms are included in the Burlington Coat Factory lease? A. No. Q. You do know that it's a long-term lease? A. It's a 30-year lease- Q. And do you know when it expires? A. I didn't check the year. Q. Since it's a long-term lease, Burlington Coat Factory, in terms of the RFP process, qualifies as an owner; is that correct? A. I'm not so sure it qualifies as an owner, but it qualifies as a potential proponent. - Q. Well, are there any rules governing the owner participation? A. Any long-term leaseholder qualifies for a submitted proposal Q. And does Burlington fall into that category? A. Yes, they do. Q. Has anybody told you that there are special redevelopment provisions contained in the lease? A. I've heard that there may be redevelopment provisions, but I'm not aware of the details, legal details, because not being an attorney, I leave it to the attorneys to interpret that. 63 ,Q. Did you ever have any conversations with anyone from Macerich relative to the redevelopment language contained in the lease? A. No. Q. Okay. I want to draw your attention to Exhibit 11, which is a letter dated March 28th, 2000, to Douglas Gray, signed by David Biggs. Please take a look at 11. A. Okay. What about this letter? Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 11? A. Yes, I do. Q. And do you recognize Mr. Biggs' signature? A. Yes, I do. Q. Did you see this letter before it went out? A. I prepared it. If you look at the bottom, it has my name Q. Let me see. Thank you. Oh, yes, at the bottom of Exhibit 11 it says, "3/28/00, Gus Duran, Ezralow, Gray letter document." That's a code from your computer? A. Correct. Q. Why did you prepare Exhibit 11? A. So that we could determine which tenants were eligible to be sent the previous letter that you brought to my attention. Q. Exhibit 9? 64 16 (Pages 61 to 64) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A- The Request for Statement of Interest and Request for Proposal Q. But Exhibit 9, the Statement of Interest and Request for Proposal, is dated March 3, so I'm not following you. A. I can't tell you. We requested this -- the letter speaks for itself; so I don't know what you want me to answer to you. Q. Well, my question is: Why, as of March 28th, 2000, did you request the leases? A. So that we could asses the financial impact of any proposals that Ezralow may -- was going to submit. Q. Did Ezralow respond to your letter, to Exhibit 11? A. Yes, they did. Q. And what was their response? A. They did not provide us with the leases. Q. Do you know why they didn't provide you with the leases? A. No. Q. Did they tell you why they didn't provide you with the leases? A. Well, they didn't want to provide us with the leases at that point in time. They felt most of the leases were not relevant to -- to what we had -- what we were 65 doing at the time. Q. Did they advise you that they would not provide you with the leases in writing or over the phone? A. Over the phone. Q. Who did you -- and who reported that to you? A. Doug Gray. Q. And did you report that to Mr. Biggs? A. I told him. Q. What did Mr. Biggs say about that? A. He didn't feel it was totally necessary at this point in time. Q. Is it necessary at this point in time, July 26, 2000, to have all the leases for the Economic Development Department acting on behalf of the Redevelopment Agency? A. Probably wilt be, but we haven't yet requested them► Q. Okay. With respect to the tenant issues, did Ezralow ever tell you that they intended to evict all the tenants? A. They told as that they were going to terminate the month -to -month tenancies they had. Q. Okay. And did they, in fact, do that? A. I guess they did. Q. Okay. And do you know if they ever told you that they wanted to terminate the Burlington lease? 66 1 MR. TEPPER: Asked and answered. Go ahead. 2 THE WITNESS: Pardon me? 3 MR. TEPPER: You may answer. 4 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure if they said 5 "terminated," but they were trying to work something out 6 with Burlington, either to move them, to relocate them, 7 because of their plan -- of the plans to redevelop the 8 mall. 9 MR. TUCHMAN: Very good. i think we should take 10 a five-minute break. Is that okay? i l THE WITNESS: Sure. 12 (A brief recess was taken.) 13 MR. TUCHMAN: Let's go back on the record. 14 111 ask the reporter -- actually, it's already 15 been marked as Exhibit 13. 16 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 Q. Please take a look at Exhibit 13 and see if you 18 recognize it. 19 A. I've seen this, but I was not in attendance at 20 that meeting. 21 Q. Okay. It seems to indicate that you were. Do 22 you know why? 23 A. I was not because if you look at the list of 24 signings, my name is not there. It only — 25 Q. The Minutes have you there. 67 1 A. Really? 2 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 3 document, I think. I'm sorry. I take that back. 4 THE WITNESS: Which Minutes? 5 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 6 Q. It says, "April 20th, 2000, City of Huntington 7 Beach Attendees," and it has you there. 8 A. I'm not 100 percent certain I was there even 9 though my name is listed. Often times my name is listed 10 because I'm asked to be at a meeting, but when there are 11 conflicts -- because I have not been in any meetings with 12 dayna. That's why I say that. 13 Q. Okay. So do you recognize Exhibit 13? 14 A. I recognize the documents. 15 Q. Okay. Do you have any recollection of attending 16 this meeting on April 13, 2000? 17 A. No, I don't. 18 Q. Thank you. Under what circumstances do you go to 19 project meetings or study sessions? 20 A. That's too general of a question. 21 Q. Do you attend all Planning session -- Planning 22 session meetings that occur prior to Planning Commission? 23 A. No, I don't. 24 Q. What determines when you, Gus Duran, go? 25 A. Depending on the particular topics, the issues in 68 17 (Pages 65 to 68) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 that topic- Most Planning meetings I do not attend. 1 2 Q. When it concerns redevelopment of the 2 3 Huntington Crossings, you like to attend those meetings? 3 4 A. Some; not all. Depending on the particular 4 5 issues that are going to be discussed at the meeting. 5 6 Q. What determines whether Air. Biggs or you, 6 7 Mr. Duran, go to study sessions? 7 8 A. Study sessions? 8 9 Q. Yes. 9 10 A. One of us have to attend. 10 11 Q. And why is that? 11 12 A. Only for -- if we have a project. 12 13 Q. I understand that. 13 14 A. So we can hear the Planning Commissioner's 14 15 comments, see where they're coming from, see what their 15 16 interest is, what kinds of project -specific comments they 16 17 have. 17 18 Q. Do you -- in your position as the Housing and 18 19 Redevelopment Manager, do you have direct contact with 19 20 Planning commissioners? 20 21 A. No, I don't. 21 22 Q. Do you, in your position as the Housing and 22 23 Redevelopment Manager, have direct contact with City 23 24 Council members? 24 25 A. Only related to the meetings we have with them. 25 69 1 Q. Have you, Mr. Duran, spoken directly to any 1 2 Council members regarding the Huntington Center — the 2 3 mall? 3 4 A. No. 4 5 Q. Have you, Mr. Duran, spoken directly to any 5 6 Planning commissioners regarding the Huntington Center Mall 6 7 and the redevelopment? 7 8 A. No. 8 9 Q. Have you spoken to anybody at -- have you spoken 9 10 to Jane James regarding Burlington Coat Factory? 10 11 A. Yes, I have. 11 12 Q. How many times? 12 13 A. Maybe five, se. times 13 14 Q. Can you delineate the times you've spoken to her? 14 15 A. I don't recollect the particular times 15 16 Q. Can you distinguish between the different 16 17 conversations you've had with Jane James? 17 18 A. Somewhere she has questions of as regarding the 18 19 plan, such as the comments we made that we are not 19 20 interested in the plan, including food -type establishments, 20 21 such as a supermarket. We were not interested in the 21 22 center having an athletic -type facility because they take a 22 23 lot of parking and take away from the retail parking for 23 24 . the retailers, comments about landscaping, comments about 24 25 parking structure. 25 70 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q. My question focuses on Burlington Coat Factory. Did you have any conversations with Jane lames regarding the Burlington Coat Factory? A. Only to the fact that we needed documents to provide to Mr. Tepper to bring to you. Q. And you told her she needed to provide all documents pertaining to the Huntington Center's redevelopment? A. She was giving specific instructions to aperture files and do cataloguing so we could turn them over to Mr. Tepper. Q. Are you aware that she catalogued those files? A. I'm not aware because I think — wait a minute. Yes, I am. The files came to her office and we Federal Expressed them to Mr. Tepper. Q. Okay. The documents — A. I did not review the files. Q. The document 3-B, did this — does this list include the Planning Department documents? A. I'm not sure. Q. Take a look, please. A. It looks like it does, yes. Q. Okay. So the EDD put together the index of its own documents and Planning? A. Planning, no. Planning did their own index. 71 Q. Okay. A. Yeah, they did their own index. That's why it looks different than oars Q. So the first few pages actually came from Planning? A. Correct.. Q. It looks like the first four pages are Planning. A. It looks that way, yeah. Q. Okay. A. Now, besides speaking to Jane James regarding providing documents pertaining to the Burlington issue at Huntington Center, have you ever talked to her, Jane James, about Burlington Coat Factory? A. Not relating to anything other than — no, not at all. Q. Do you know who Herb Fauland is? A. I think be's a senior planner in the Planning Department, yes Q. That's one of Jane's supervisors? A. Correct, Q. Mr. Fauland, his last name is F-a-u-I-a-n-d? A. Correct Q. And have you spoken to him regarding the Burlington Coat Factory? A. Not at aiL 72 18 (Pages 69 to 72) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER l Q. Have you spoken to Mr. Zelefsky regarding 1 lease and you had a dispute with Burlington — with 2 Burlington Coat Factory? 2 Ezralow. 3 A. Orly relative to what [just mentioned, which 3 Q. Okay. 4 is — not about Burlington Coat Factory, only relevant to 4 A. And we had no interest in being involved with 5 the specific plan and the uses. The Economic Development 5 that. 6 Department did not wish to be included in the specific 6 Q. To this day, does the City or you, as the Housing 7 plan. 7 and Redevelopment Manager, have an interest in the issues 8 Q. Okay. I want you to take a look at Exhibit 10, 8 involved between Burlington and Ezralow? 9 please, and ask if you recognize it. 9 MR. TEPPER: Objection. Calls for a legal IO A. Yes, I wrote this letter to you. 10 conclusion insofar as the City and the Agency and t 1 Q. And you wrote Exhibit 10 on or about March 6th, 11 individuals are named as defendants in a Federal action 12 2000, and sent it to Tuchman & Associates; correct? 12 filed with -- filed by Burlington against them. 13 A. Correct 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 Q. Was this letter — content of your letter 14 Q. You can answer. 15 reviewed with any -- reviewed with your supervisor, 15 MR. TEPPER: If.you know the answer.. 16 Mr. Biggs? 16 THE WITNESS: The answer is "no." 17 A. Yes, it was. 17 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 18 Q. Okay. Was it reviewed with any other persons? 18 Q. Okay. Did anyone else tell you besides Mr. Biggs 19 A. No, it was not 19 that a meeting should not take place between Ezralow, 20 Q. Why did you make the statement that you did not 20 Burlington, and the City? 21 want to have a meeting? 21 MR. TEPPER: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 22 A. Because we saw no relevancy having a meeting with 22 testimony the witness gave about Mr. Biggs. 23 you, and we could see from your questioning over the phone 23 THE WITNESS: I think Counsel answered it 24 and your interest that you were trying to draw us into your 24 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 25 landlord/tenant dispute. 25 Q. Counsel can't answer for you. The only time that: 73 1 75 1 Q. Do you know how long prior to March 6th, 2000, a 1 you shouldn't answer a question is if your counsel 2 meeting was requested and how many times? 2 instructs you not to answer. 3 A. I think twice your office called our office — 3 MR. TEPPER: Well, then let's go back and read 4 Q. Yeah. 4 the answer to the question as originally posed. 5 A. -- to have meetings and we declined to have 5 MR. TUCHMAN: Go right ahead. 6 meetings with you. 6 (Whereupon the previous answer was read 7 Q. And that was in February 2000? 7 back by the court reporter as requested.) 8 A. Uh-hah. 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 Q. Is that a "yes"? 9 Q. Let's go back to my question. Besides talking to 10 A. Yes. 10 Mr. Biggs about whether there should be a meeting with 11 Q. And did you discuss with Mr. Biggs why you did 11 Burlington, Ezralow, and the City, did anyone else talk to 12 not want to have these meetings? 12 you about that subject? 13 A. Yes. 13 A. No. 14 Q. And what did Mr. Biggs say? 14 Q. Okay. Did you ask somebody else like the City 15 A. He said, "You're correct." 15 administrator whether we should have a meeting or not? 16 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't understand -your answer. 16 A. No. 17 A.- "You're correct, we shouldn't have meetings with 17 Q. Are you aware if Council Member Bower ever made 18 the law firm representing Burlington Coat We have no 18 an inquiry of you as to whether such meetings were ever 19 business with them." 19 requested? 20 Q. And did Mr. Biggs elaborate as to why you, 20 A. No. 21 meaning the City or Redevelopment Agency, had no business 21 Q. Okay. Did you already have a copy of the lawsuit 22 with them? 22 against Ezralow in your file as of March 6, 2000? 23 A. Because we knew there was a landlord/tenant 23 A. Yes, because I'm acknowledging that you sent me 24 dispute ongoing. Even the times you called, or one of your 24 the lawsuit when we didn't request it We didn't know why 25 associates called, indicated that you had this 30-year 25 you sent as the lawsuit 74 1 76 19 (Pages 73 to 76) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Q. My question is: Before I sent it to you, did you have a copy of it? A. No. Q. Is there a person at the City or the Economic Development Department or any other agency that was assigned to watch or monitor the litigation between Ezralow and Burlington Coat Factory? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Were you or anyone, to your knowledge, in contact 10 with Mr. Hughes or anyone from his office as to the 11 progress of the actions pending between Burlington and 12 Ezralow? 13 A. No. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Were you ever asked to provide a declaration in any form for any of the lawsuits? A. Not that I'm aware of Q. Are you aware what happened to the Petition to Compel Arbitration, the first action? A. Am I aware of what? Q. Of what happened to the first action? A. Yes. Q. And who told you that? A. Douglas Gray. - Q. What did he say to you? A. He says that the Court dismissed it. 77 Q. And do you know what was being sought in the first action? A. Not really. Q. Did anybody tell you that the first action was only an attempt to resolve the issues of redevelopment by way of arbitration? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the lawsuit. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer the question. A. What's the question again? (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: Yes, I am familiar with it because I read the lawsuit BY MR TUCHMAN: Q. The next — the subsequent lawsuit against Ezralow, brought by Burlington, are you familiar with that? & Yes, I am. Q. Did you receive a copy of the Complaint? A. No, I don't think so. Q. Did you discuss that Complaint — that action with Douglas Gray? A. Only alter the fact, after the Court had ruled on the Complaint 78 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I Q. Is that case, to your knowledge, over? 2 A. As far as I know. 3 Q. Okay. What did Mr. Gray say? 4 A. That it was dismissed also. 5 Q. Okay. And when did he say that? 6 A. I think it was at the public hearing when the 7 Agency was recommending the developer so that we could 8 pursue the redevelopment of the Huntington Center. 9 Q. Was that in writing or was that verbally? 10 A. Verbally, because I think the decision was made 11 the same day by Court. 12 Q. This comment or this advice to you by Mr. Gray, 13 did this factor into your determination as to whether 14 redevelopment should go forward? 15 A. Not at alL 16 Q. Were you ever told what was pending on the same 17 day as the Planning Commission meeting was a temporary 18 restraining order? 19 A. The question again? 20 Q. Were you ever told that on the same day of the 21 Planning Commission meeting was pending, that there was a 22 temporary restraining order? 23 A. I remember something about it, but it didn't 24 really impact what we were doing. 25 Q. Okay. Did anybody tell you what happened to the 79 1 temporary restraining order? 2 A. I believe it was also dismissed. 3 Q. What else did Mr. Gray tell you regarding the 4 second action? 5 A. That's it. 6 Q. Did you discuss with anyone else anywhere the 7 status of the second action brought by Burlington against 8 Ezralow? 9 A. I didn't discuss it, but everybody that was 10 involved with this project knew about it. 11 Q. Okay. And who were these people? 12 A. Mr. David Biggs. 13 Q. And who else? 14 A. That's all I really know who knew. 15 Q. Were you involved in a telephone conversation 16 whereby Mr. Biggs was stating on a speaker phone that the 17 City or the Redevelopment Agency would do whatever it takes 18 to help Ezralow get the center redeveloped? 19 MR. TEPPER: Objection. It assumes facts not in 20 evidence. It's misleading, and it is an attempt to mislead 21 this witness. 22 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23 Q. You can answer the question. 24 A. No. 25 MR. TEPPER: No. Okay. He answered it anyway. 80 20 (Pages 77 to 80) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00' BUKLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 BY MR TUCHMAN: 2 Q. Did Mr. Biggs ever tell you that the Economic 3 Development Department and the Redevelopment Agency would 4 interfere in the lawsuit between Ezralow and Burlington? 5 A. Na 6 Q. Are you aware of anyone at the City, including 7 Mr. Biggs, who has told anyone from Ezralow that they will 8 assist Ezralow in the litigation with Burlington? 9 A. Not at all. 10 Q. Have you ever pulled the application to establish 11 the Specific Plan No. 13 submitted to Planning by Ezralow? 12 A. No. 13 Q. That's not a document that you're intimately 14 familiar with? 15 A. Correct 16 Q. That's more of a Planning issue? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. What is a project meeting? 19 A. Whose project meeting are you talking about? 20 Q. Well, I'm looking at a document — actually, it's 21 not previously marked, but it's something called "Crossings 22 and Huntington Project Meeting." 23 A. If I can see what you're talking about, otherwise 24 I don't know what you're talking about 25 Q. III give it to you. Hang on. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 81 A. Are you talking about Exhibit 13? Is that what you're talking about? Q. You can look at Exhibit 13. What does that mean? A. Well, this is a meeting that was sponsored by the Planning Department. Q. Does the EDD ever sponsor project meetings? A. We don't tall them project meetings. We have meetings with different parties relating to projects, but we don't — we're not as elaborate as the Planning Department in preparing agendas and what has to be discussed. Q. Thank you. MR. TUCHMAN: III ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 21, this is an April 14th, 2000 — THE WITNESS: Can I mak_ea telephone call? MR TUCHMAN: Oh, no problem. Let's go off the record a second. (A brief recess was taken.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. We were looking at Exhibit 21. Do you recognize Exhibit 21? Did I hand you one? A. No, you did not. Q. Here's another one. A. Oh, yes, you did, I'm sorry. Okay. What about 82 I it? 2 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 21? 3 A. Yes, I do. 4 (Piaintiks Exhibit 21 was marked 5 for identification by the court 6 reporter and is attached hereto.) 7 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 Q. What is Exhibit 21? 9 A. It's a Statement of Interest regarding 10 redevelopment of Huntington Center submitted by Huntington 11 Center Associates, LLC. 12 Q. Okay. And this was your Statement of Interest 13 received from Ezralow; is that correct? 14 A. correct. 15 Q. You didn't return it to them? 16 A. Why would I return it to them? 17 Q. You didn't return it to them. This is what you 18 accept* correct? 19 A. Correll. 20 Q. Was it amended or changed in any way? 21 A. I believe there was addition later on that was 22 submitted, but I can't recall if it was through the Request- 23 for Proposal or a statement clarifying which of the escrow 24 companies, because they have several escrow companies' 25 names, but it's all in the Rk submitted to you. 83 1 Q. Okay. Wev get to it. Do you have Exhibit 11 2 in front of you? 3 A. Yes, I do.. 4 Q. Let me see 11, please. Here you go. 5 MR. TUCHMAN: Ion going to ask the reporter to 6 mark for identification as Exhibit 22, this is a letter 7 dated April 24, 2000, to Gus Duran from the Ezralow 8 Company. 9 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 22 was marked 10 for identification by the court 11 reporter and is attached hereto.) 12 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 Q. And do you recognize 22? 14 A. Yes, I do. 15 Q. And what is 22? 16 A. It's copies of the leases of tenants remaining. 17 within Huntington Center. 18 Q. And were there 16 leases? 19 A. I don't know the number of leases. I have a box 20 fall of leases there. 21 Q. Was one of the leases Burlington Coat Factory? 22 A. I didn't check it I do have a copy of the 23 Burlington coat Factory lease because you submitted it. 24 Q. With the Statement of Interest? 25 A. You submitted it in several formats with the 84 21 (Pages 81 to 84) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26"00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 lawsuit, with the Statement of Interest, so I do have a 1 Q. That was paid for by Ezralow? 2 copy of the Burlington coat Factory lease. 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Now, do you know why the Economic Development 3 Q. And same thing with SP-13? Was any part of the 4 Department wanted the leases as of April 24, 2000? 4 SP-13 paid for with City funds? 5 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Assumes facts not in 5 A. Not that I'm aware of. 6 evidence. 6 Q. That was also paid for by Ezralow? 7 THE WITNESS: No. 7 A. Not that I'm aware of, but they may have been 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 because that's in the Planning Department's purview, a 9 Q. Okay. Let's move on then. Were you addressing 9 demonstration of the Planning documents. 10 any of the SEQA issues and questions relative whether the 10 Q. Now, in addition — now, this proposal that you 11 Huntington Beach redevelopment at the Huntington Center was 11 received from Ezralow through Whitman, Breed, they attached 12 cleared through SEQA? 12 the SP-12. What else was attached to it? 13 A. No, that's not within our purview. That's the 13 A. There was a Pro Forma submitted. There were some 14 Planning Department's call. 14 documents related to Ezralow's financial capacity. 15 MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to ask the reporter to 15 Q. Yes. 16 mark for identification as Exhibit 23, this is a letter 16 A. Those are the documents I recollect. Again, they 17 dated May 2, 2000, from Whitman, Breed, Abbott & Morgan. 17 were provided to you in a f1k. 18 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 23 was marked 18 Q. In a file here? 19 for identification by the court 19 A. Yes. 20 reporter and is attached hereto.) 20 Q. Okay. And that's the Ezralow file? 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 21 A. Well, yes, correct. Actually, there may be a 22 Q. And take a look at that. 22 file that says "Proposal" submitted to the Redevelopment 23 MR. TUCHMAN: It's going to be Whitman, Breed, 23 Agency, something to that effect. 24 Abbott & Shipow soon. 24 Q. Proposals? 25 MR. SHIPOW: I hope not, because the people on 25 A. Request for Proposals or — 85 I the letterhead are all dead. 1 2 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 3 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 23? 3 4 A. Yes, this is the letter I indicated to you where 4 5 they were clarifying information. Huntington Center 5 6 Associates, LLC, was clarifying information submitted in 6 7 their proposal. 7 8 Q. Okay. And it looks like there's — I see. The 9 9 cover letter is where they're explaining the changes from 9 10 the proposal. 10 I 1 A. Just to clarify, not really change, but clarify. 11 12 Q. And then the proposal itself is about the -- 12 13 starts on the fourth page in. 13 14 A. That was a proposal received on May 7th, yes, 14 15 correct -_ 15 16 Q. Now, this proposal also had attached to it the 16 17 SP-12, is that right? 17 18 A.. Correct. 18 19 Q. And the SP-12 was about 80 pages or so? 19 20 A. Correct. 20 21 Q. In addition to the 80 pages, were there any -- by 21 22 the way, that SP-12 that was submitted, was any part of 22 23 that SP-12 paid for by any City Agency or the Redevelopment 23 24 Agency? 24 25 A. No. 25 86 87 Q. Interest for participation? A. That's one part. There should be another pail where proposals — Q. Okay. Why don't you just take a look and tell me which ones were included with the proposal, please. A. Okay. Developer's selection. You have all the documents that were submitted by the various developers Q. Good. Let's take a look at that. Thank you. By the way, inside the files, I did note that there were these one -paged sheets that said, for example, "June 23, 2000, copied." A. That's a way for as to know the latest date in which we copied documents because we seem to be getting letters after letters after letters requesting added documents, and we need to know where we stopped copying and where the new documents come in. Q. Thank you. The documents that were included in Mr. Hughes' May 2, 2000, proposal, which you submitted on behalf of Ezralow, the documents that are included are referenced in the developer's selection file; is that right? A. They should be there, yes. Q. Okay. Would you pull those documents out for me? Thank you. A. Here we go. Attachment No. 3 to the Request for 88 22 (Pages 85 to 88) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Redevelopment Agency Actlon. Attachment No. 3 has all the 2 documents submitted by Ezralow as part of their proposal. 3 Q. Thank you. Attachment No. 5 here, that's the 4 Huntington Center Proposal Analysis Matrix? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Did you prepare that? 7 A. I prepared that. 8 Q. And basically that was comparing all three 9 proposals? 10 A. Correct. It's an analytical way of analyzing 11 what was submitted. 12 Q; And then attachment 4 is what Montgomery Ward 13 submitted? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. So, basically — and I'm going to attach 16 this as part of Exhibit 23 — this Attachment 3 was the 17 entire Ezralow proposal, which includes the Statement of 18 Interest? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Okay. Good. Let me get a copy of this right 21 away. After receiving the Statement of Interest and then 22 the proposal, did you, at the Economic Development 23 Department, ask for any documents in addition to the — in 24 order to select the developer in addition to the documents 25 provided with the May 2 letter, which are attached as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 89 Exhibit 23? A. No, everything that you see there is what was submitted by each of the proponents. MR. TUCEIMAN: Okay. I'm going to ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 24, it's a letter from Tuchman & Associates, dated April 4, 2000. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 24 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) BY MR. TUCBMAN: Q. Have you ever seen Exhibit 24 before? A. Yes, I have. Q. Okay. And that was a request for documents from Tuchman & Associates; correct? A. Correct. Q. And you received that on.or about April 4 or a day or two thereafter? A. Yes._ Q. Okay. And your response -- you wrote a response for Mr. Biggs; is that correct? A. Correct. MR. TUCBMAN: I'm going to ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 25, it's a letter dated April 10, 2000, signed by David Biggs. 90 1 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 25 was marked 2 for identification by the court 3 reporter and is attached hereto.) 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 5 Q. But I believe this was prepared by you; is that 6 correct? 7 A. That's correct: 8 Q. Okay. Did you discuss Exhibits 24 and 25 with 9 Mr. Biggs? 10 A. Exhibits -- 11 Q. The two letters. 12 A. No, I discussed them with Murray Kane. 13 Q. Okay. And what did Mr. Kane tell you? 14 MR. TEPPER: Objection. Attorney/client 15 privilege. No answer. 16 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 Q. Now, the documents that you -- did somebody tell 18 you to ask Tuchman & Associates to be more specific? 19 MR. TEPPER: Objection. If that person, if at 20 all, was Mr. Kane — 21 THE WITNESS: Yes, it was. 22 MR. TUCHMAN: I`m going to ask the reporter to 23 mark for identification as Exhibit 26, an April 4, 2000, 24 letter to Mr. Duran, from Mr. Tuchman & Associates, in 25 response to Exhibit 25. 91 1 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 26 was marked 2 for identification by the court 3 reporter and is attached hereto.) 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 5 Q. Have you ever seen this exhibit before? 6 A. Yes, I have. 7 Q. And were you charged with the responsibility to 8 respond to Exhibit 26? 9 A. Unfortunately. 10 Q. And did you prepare documents responsive to 11 Exhibit 26? 12 A. Yes, I did: 13 Q. Did you provide all the documents that were 14 requested? 15 A. I answered all the questions -- all the documents 16 related to each of the items you indicated. 17 Q. Did you check with the Planning Department to 18 make sure all documents from them were provided? 19 A. I checked with the Planning Department to obtain 20 what documents related to your particular items. 21 Q. Why is it that you did not provide the 22 application? 23 A. It was not made available to me. 24 Q. Okay. Do you know why it was not made available 25 to you? 0% 23 (Pages 89 to 92) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 A. No. 1 2 Q. Okay. Who didn't make it available to you? 2 3 A. I did not seek the application. I went to the 3 4 Planning Department and asked for all the documents related 4 5 to your question. and they were provided to you. There was 5 6 not an intent not to provide the application or anything of 6 7 that nature. 7 8 Q. When you say it was not made available, who from 8 9 the Planning Department did you go to? 9 10 A. Miss Jane James. 10 11 Q. Okay. And did you show her this letter? 11 12 A. I don't remember if I did. 12 13 Q. Okay. Did you — 13 14 A. Hang on a second, okay. Can you tell me what 14 15 item you're talking about within your letter? 15 16 MR. TEPPER: Thank you for asking that question. 16 17 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 18 Q. Mr. Duran, Ill ask the questions. 18 19 A. Well, I have a right to clarify your question. 19 20 Q. Mr. Duran, is there some reason that you did not 20 21 provide the Specific Plan No. 12 in response to 21 22 Exhibit No. 26? 22 23 A. What item in Exhibit No. 26? 23 24 Q. Well, would you agree or disagree that the 24 25 specific plan refers to Burlington Coat Factory? 25 93 1 A. It refers to — no, it doesn't refer to 1 2 Burlington Coat Factory. It refers to the Huntington 2 3 Center. 3 4 Q. Is there some reason you did not provide the 4 5 Specific Plan No. 12 in response to Exhibit 26? 5 6 1 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Asked and answered. 6 7 Argumentative. Assumes facts not in evidence. 7 8 MR. TEPPER: It really does assume whether or not 8 9 that particular document, referring to 26, asks for the 9 10 specific plan. 10 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 11 12 Q. The question still remains, sir. 12 13 A. I don't know if I had the specific plan at my - 13 14 desk. 14 15 Q. Okay. Did you seek from the Planning Department 15 16 a copy of the specific plan? 16 17 MR. SHIPOW: Same objections. 17 18 MR. TEPPER: Again, it assumes the specific plan 18 19 is called out in Exhibit 26 as being a document request. 19 20 MR. TUCHMAN: That's fine. It doesn't matter. 20 21 MR. TEPPER, Yeah, it does matter. 21 22 MR. TUCHMAN: Well, certainly the categories do 22 23 cover it. 23 24- MR. TEPPER: No, I would think that's a very 24 25 interesting question whether or not the categories do cover 25 94 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER it. MR. TUCHMAN: Well, you can argue that later. MR. TEPPER: No, you've asked a question to the witness. I want the witness to answer it with reference to the document. MR. TUCH IAN: It's the second time you've attempted to coach him, but I think it's been unsuccessful. MR. TEPPER: Well, let's see if it is. THE WITNESS: What is your question? BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Is there some reason you didn't get the Specific Plan No. 12? A. Probably because your items covered here related to Burlington Coat It did -not say Huntington Center. Q. Okay. Let's take a look at No. 10 and 11 and 12. A. Okay. Q. "All documents concerning any and all discussions between and among the City and Ezralow regarding, referring, or relating to Huntington Beach Mall." A. You say "discussions." You did not say "plans." Q. "All documents concerning any and all discussions between and among the City and James Hughes regarding, referring, or relating to the Huntington Beach Mall." A. Same. You said "discussions." 95 Q. You interpret that to exclude the Specific Plan No. 12? A. That's righL It doesn't say "plans." I know how to read English, so — MR. TEPPER: Relax. You can't argue with him and he can't argue with you. THE WITNESS: Okay. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Now, did you — in addition to not providing Specific Plan No. 12 and not providing the application, did you have a discussion regarding other documents which were not provided responsive to this letter? MR. TEPPER: Objection. Mischaracterizes what was asked for.as to generating a duty to provide. MR. SHIPOW: Also argumentative and assumes facts not in evidence. MR. TUCHMAN: He can answer the question. MR. TEPPER: Yes, he can answer the question. THE WITNESS: I don't have an answer to your question because I don't understand the nature of your question. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Did anybody tell you, Mr. Duran, not to produce certain documents? A. Not at all. Em 24 (Pages 93 to 96) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. Okay. Who made the determination as to what 1 2 documents to provide responsive to Exhibit 26? 2 3 A. I did 3 4 Q. Okay. At some point, the specific plan was 4 5 requested from you; is that correct? 5 6 A. That's correct. 6 7 Q. And when was that? 7 8 A. I believe one of your associates came into 8 9 request a copy of — not the specific plan — of the 9 10 proposal submitted by Ezralow. You have to remember, we 10 11 don't process the specific plan. It's the Planning 11 12 Department. 12 13 Q. I understand that. 13 14 A. Okay. 14 15 Q. And did you provide him with the specific plan? 15 16 MR. TEPPER: Objection. You re misleading the 16 17 witness. The witness wasn't asked that question. If 17 18 you're asking him it now, put it in context. 18 19 Do you understand the question? 19 20 THE WITNESS: No. 20 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 21 22 Q. Did you provide that associate something? 22 23 A. I provided him the proposal submitted by Ezralow. 23 24 Q. And that included the specific'plan? 24 25 A. The title was Specific Plan for the 25 97 1 Redevelopment — the Development of the Handogtoo Beach I 1 2 Center. 2 3 Q. Okay. 3 4 A. You have to remember, we don't process specific 4 5 plans. 5 6 Q. I understand that. You process R for Ps, 6 7 Statement of Interests, and proposals? 7 8 A. Correct. 8 9 Q. Did you at any time provide any enclosures to the 9 10 May 2 proposals to Tuchman & Associates? 10 11 A. The question again? 11 12 MR. TUCHMAN: Please read the question back. 12 13 (Whereupon the previous question was read 13 14 back by the court reporter as requested.) 14 15 MR. TEPPER: I think you may have misheard the 15 16 question as asked.. _- 16 17 THE WITNESS: Did you understand the question? 17 18 THE WITNESS: Not really. 18 19 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 19 20 Q. You understand Exhibit 23 was a proposal which 20 21 was submitted by Mr. Hughes and Ezralow? 21 22 A. Okay. 22 23 Q. There were attachments that were with it? 23 24 A. Correct. 24 25 Q. Did you ever provide the attachments to 25 98 Exhibit 23 to Tuchman tit Associates as representing Burlington Coat Factory? A. I provided you the documents — you were provided documents when they were made available to the Redevelopment Agency Board, which was a Friday prior to the public bearing on the recommendation from the Economic Development Department to the Board to select an owner participant. Q. When was that? Was that the Friday before June 19; meaning, June l6th? A. Correct. Q. Okay. Were they not made available to the Economic Development Department prior to June 16, 2000? A. Sometime prior to that, yes, they were. Q. How long prior to June- 16th? A. Let's take a look at the date. They were sent on May 2» d, so May 2nd or thereabouts. Q. Why is it that in response to Exhibit 26 you did not provide the attachments contained in Exhibit 23? MR. SHIPOW: Look at the dates, Counsel. THE WITNESS: I received this on April 12th. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Sure. A. So I was responding to your letter of April 12th. Q. When did you respond to the letter of April 12th? 99 A. I think it's about May loth. Q. Right. May loth: A. But your request was for documents prior to your April 12th date, not after that particular date. Q. So you interpreted Exhibit 26 in terms of providing documents after April 12th? A. That's correct. Q. Did anybody tell you that or you made that decision on your own? A. I made that decision on my own. Q. Did you discuss that with anybody? A. No. Q. Let's take a look -- MR. TUCHMAN: III ask the reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit 27, it's a letter dated April 17th, 2000. It's from Mr. Duran to Tuchman & Associates. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 27 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 27? A. Let me read it first. Q. Did you have a chance to read 27? A. Yes, I did. - 100 25 (Pages 97 to 100) JILIO Si ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Q. Okay. And you prepared 27 on or about 2 April 17th, 2000? 3 A. Correct 4 Q. Okay. Ultimately, you only provided about 10 or 5 14 pages of documents; am I correct? 6 MR. TEPPER: That's a misstatement of fact. 7 MR. SHIPOW: And argumentative. 8 THE WITNESS: I provided you with the exact 9 response to each of the items that you requested under the 10 April 12th, 2000, letter. 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 12 Q. How many pages of documents did you -- 13 A. I don't remember, but have you copies of those 14 documents. 15 Q. Well get them. 16 MR. TEPPER: It looks like more than 14 pages. 17 Why would you say that in this deposition? If you want to 18 argue with the witness, let's argue on substance. 19 MR. TUCHMAN: Mr. Tepper, do you want to count 20 the pages right here? Here's what was provided. 21 MR. TEPPER: Let's go to the questions. 22 MR. TUCHMAN: That's what I thought you'd say. 23 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. Back to the questions. 24 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 25 Q. Why did you need till May 15th to respond? 101 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A. Correct 2 Q. Why did you CC the letter to Murray Kane? 3 A. He's oar special legal counsel and we may have to 4 make him aware of any correspondence that may have legal 5 implications. 6 Q. Did you -- you consulted with Mr. Kane relative 7 to providing documents responsive to the letter dated 8 April 121h; is that correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Okay. Were documents withheld? 11 A. No, they were not 12 Q. There were no documents withheld? 13 A. The only file that was not provided was the 14 .closed session Me where we have documents regarding our 15 closed sessions. 16 Q. Did you say that anywhere in writing, whether in 17 Exhibit 2 or elsewhere? 18 A. No, because we responded to your particular 19 request for documents. Each item response — specifically 20 responds to your question to the records you're requesting. 21 Q. Okay. And after you did your search and 22 determination as to what you were going to provide, did you 23 determine how many pages of documents you were going to 24 provide? 25 A. No, we pulled the documents together and gave you 103 1 A. Because I have many other activities and duties 1 copies of those documents. 2 and responsibilities other than answering letters from 2 MR. TUCI- N AN: Okay. I'm going to ask the 3 attorneys requesting documents as No.1. No. 2, we had to 3 reporter to mark for identification as 29 the letter dated 4 organize our tiles in such a way that they could be 4 May 12th, 2000, to Gus Duran. 5 property copied. 5 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 29 was marked 6 Q. Okay. 6 for identification by the court 7 A. And also you should know that there are laws 7 reporter and is attached hereto.) 8 covering copies of documents that cities must follow, and 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 it gives us certain time limits in which to provide you 9 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 29? 10 with copies. 10 A. Let me read it first. Okay. What about it? 11 Q. Okay. And you were within those time limits? 11 Q. You received 29 on or about May 15, 2000? 12 A. Exactly. 12 A. Uh-huh. 13 Q. Okay. Let's take a look at — 13 Q. Is that a "yes"? 14 MR. TUCHMAN: I11 ask the reporter to mark for 14 A. Yes. 15 identification as Exhibit 28, this is a -letter dated 15 Q. Okay. Do you see the sentence -- the last two 16 May 10th, 2000, from Gus Duran to Tuchman & Associates. 16 sentences of the first paragraph, "Your responsive letter 17 It's CCed to David Biggs, Murray Kane, and Scott Field. 17 identifies documents that are of public record. If there 18 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 28 was marked 18 are documents that are not of public record responsive to 19 for identification by the court 19 our request, please advise us." 20 reporter and is attached hereto.) 20 Did you ever respond to those sentences in 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 21 Exhibit 29? 22 Q. And the question is: Do you recognize 28? 22 MR. TEPPER: "Yes" or "no"? 23 A. Uh-huh, yes, I do. 23 THE WITNESS: No. 24 Q. Okay. And you wrote Exhibit 28 on or about 24 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 25 May 10th, 2000? 25 Q. Okay. Why didn't you respond to them? 102 1 104 26 (Pages 101 to 104) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A. Became your letter specifically asked about 1 2 documents relating to Burlington Coat Factory. There are 2 3 no documents related to Burlington Coat Factory. 3 4 Q. Okay. So the letter that was written to you 4 5 dated April 12 asked for only documents relating to 5 6 Burlington Coat Factory? 6 7 A. If you took at your request for documents, it 7 8 talks about Burlington Coat Factory continuously, each and 8 9 every item, and there were no documents in our files that 9 10 indicate Burlington Coat Factory. 10 11 Q. Okay. 11 12 A. So I tried to answer your request for documents 12 13 in the same -- with the same specificity that you 13 14 requested. 14 15 Q. Did anybody tell you that the letter of April 12 15 16 related only to Burlington Coat Factory, or is that a 16 17 decision you made on your own? 17 18 A. That's what it says on your letter here. 18 19 Q. That's not my question. Did anybody tell you 19 20 that the letter was restrictive only to Burlington Coat 20 21 Factory, or did you make that determination on your own? 21 22 A. I answered aB the requests for documents. 22 23 MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back to 23 24 Mr. Duran. 24 25 (Whereupon the previous question was read 25 105 1 back by the court reporter as requested.) 1 2 THE WITNESS: I made the determination on my own. 2 3 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 3 4 Q. Okay. Besides speaking to Mr. Kane about the 4 5 documents that you were providing, did you speak to 5 6 Mr. Biggs? 6 7 MR. TEPPER: Objection. That misstates and 7 8 mischaracterizes his testimony. 8 9 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 10 Q. You can answer the question. 10 11 A. No. 11 12 Q. You only spoke with Mr. Kane regarding the 12 13 documents? 13 14 A. Correct. 14 15 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. Now, I'm going to ask 15 16 reporter to mark for identification as -Exhibit 30, this is 16 17 a letter dated May 16, 2000. Mr. Tepper, you may want to 17 18 look at it. 18 19 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 30 was marked 19 20 for identification by the court 20 21 reporter and is attached hereto.) 21 22 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 22 23 Q. And is this a letter that you sent to Tuchman & 23 24 Associates on May 16, 2000? 24 25 A. Yes, it is. 25 106 Q. Okay. And by the way, this little 16 at the top, that came from your file right here, your box; correct? A. Yes Q. Okay. And Exhibit 30 is the sum and total of the documents you provided to Tuchman & Associates on May 16, 2000; is that correct? A. Correct. MR. TEPPER: For the record, there were documents that were made available that you didn't ask for, and they exceeded 14 pages. You asked for 14 pages. . MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. Mr. Tepper. That was very (Lice. MR. TEPPER: Just so we got the record clear. MR TUCHMAN: You can make whatever arguments you want, but not in deposition. MR. TEPPER: I can make any arguments in a deposition I want too. MR. TUCHMAN: Oh, is that right? MR. TEPPER. Yes, it is right. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Now, Mr. Duran — MR. TUCHMAN: That's a new interpretation of the Discovery Act BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Do you see that you provided the May 2, 200% 107 letter in there from Whitman & Breed? By the way, does this refresh your recollection that only 14 pages were provided? A. What you have is what was provided. I don't dispute what we provided you Q. Do you see this May 2 letter from Whitman, Breed? A. Correct.' Q. Why is it that you didnt send the enclosures to it? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. It mischaracterizes the testimony. It mischaracterizes the documents. Your letter of May 12th, which is Exhibit 29, says specifically, "In total, we request 14 pages." That's on page 2 of the letter. And to insinuate that this letter withheld documents is entirely inappropriate. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer the question: A. I responded to each of your letters in the same light as the questions were posed by your letters. In other words, if you asked we for a particular document, I gave you a particular document. Also, your associate came in personally and asked for the specific plan, and I gave it to him directly. Q. Okay. Now, let me ask you this question. This letter is dated May 2, 2000, which is after Tuchman & 108 27 (Pages 105 to 108) 7ILIO Sr ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Associate's original letter of April 12th? 1 2 A. Correll. 2 3 Q. Why did you provide it if it was after that date? 3 4 A. I gave you everything I could possibly provide 4 5 you. I don't know what you're asking. 5 6 Q. Okay. Is there some reason that you provided the 6 7 May 2, 2000, letter because it's dated after April 12, 7 8 2000? l thought you told me that you didn't provide 8 9 anything after that date. 9 10 A. Because you requested copies of any proposals 10 11 submitted by Eiralow, and I gave you that. 11 12 Q. And is there some reason you didn't send 12 13 enclosures along with the — on your May 10 letter? 13 14 MR. SHIPOW: Same objection. Argumentative. 14 15 Your letter specifically requests 14 pages, period. 15 16 MR. TUCHMAN: That's very nice, Mr. Shipow? 16 17 THE WITNESS: Because your associate came into 17 18 our office. I forget the name of your associate, the tall 18 19 fellow. 19 20 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 21 Q. Okay. 21 22 A. And requested copies of that. He demanded to 22 23 have copies of that. He would not leave our offices. So 23 24 instead of arguing with him, I gave it to him. 24 25 Q. Now, you gave him the Specific Plan No. 12? 25 109 1 1 A. The proposal submitted, that's correct. 1 2 Q. But weren't there other enclosures that were 2 3 attached to Mr. Hughes' May 2, 2000, letter? 3 4 A. the only reason I gave him that is because I 4 5 already had a copy. I did not have a time to make a copy. 5 6 I was on my way to another meeting. He requested a copy of 6 7 the proposal. I gave him the copy of what I already had. 7 8 I did not go into my files and copy everything that was in 8 9 the file. 9 10 Q. When you spent the time between April 12th, 2000, 10 11 and May loth, 2000, why is it that you didn't organize the 11 12 enclosures during that period of time? 12 l3 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Argumentative. 13 14 Mischaracterizes the testimony, and you're badgering the 14 15 witness. You're letters specifically asked for 14 pages of 15 16 documents. You got those 14 pages of documents, and to 16 17 insinuate otherwise, again, is entirely inappropriate. 17 18 MR. TUCHMAN: That's about as fictional as your 18 19 arguments on March 31st. 19 20 MR. TEPPER: All right. Do you have an answer to 20 21 the question? 21 22 THE WITNESS: What is the question? 22 23 MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back. 23 24_ (Whereupon the previous question was read 24 25 back by the court reporter as requested.) 25 110 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER THE WITNESS: Organize the enclosures? BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Organize and provide them, yes. A. I provided to you whatever you requested. MR. TEPPER: That's all you have to say. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. So it's your interpretation of my letter -- Tuchman & Associate's letter of April 12th that we didn't want the enclosures to the May 2, 2000, Hughes letter? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Mischaracterizes the testimony, and it's misleading because you have a subsequent letter. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer the question. MR. TEPPER: Read the question. THE WITNESS: I gave you everything we requested.. I did not keep anything from you that you requested. MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question. (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: I answered every question you had on April 12. My response was to your letter. of_April 12th, period BY MR. TUCHMAN: 111 Q. Did anyone review your selection of documents to be provided? A. No. Q. Okay. I want to make sure that our Exhibit 23s are complete. Please hand me your 23. Of course, the original Exhibit 23 didn't have this attactlment 3 cover sheet to it. That was when it was incorporated in your packet on June 16th, 2000; correct? A. Correct MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. Do you want me to fix your exhibit? MR. SHIPOW: Just give me a copy. Thanks. BY MR. TUCH 4AN: Q. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Biggs regarding the — MR. TEPPER: Do I get one? MR. TUCHMAN: Yeah. Take this one. MR. TEPPER: Thank you. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Biggs that you should not provide Tuchman & Associates the documents that were requested? MR. TEPPER: Asked and answered. THE WIINESS: What's the question again? BY MR. TUCHMAN: 112 28 (Pages 109 to 112) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Biggs 1 2 wherein Mr. Biggs told you to not provide all the 2 3 documents? 3 4 A. Na 4 5 Q. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Biggs where 5 6 he told you to attempt to narrowly interpret the letter 6 7 that was sent to you? 7 8 A. No. 8 9 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. I'm going to ask the 9 10 reporter to mark for identification as Exhibit No. -- are 10 11 we on 31? 11 12 MR. TEPPER: Yes. 12 13 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 31 was marked 13 14 for identification by the court 14 15 reporter and is attached hereto.) 15 16 MR. TUCHMAN: This was Item 25 of your 16 17 production, and it's a May 26, 2000, memo. "Subject, 17 18 Crossings." 18 19 MR. SHIPOW: I need to go back for a moment to 19 20 Exhibit 23. It contains what I believe to be some — at 20 21 least on my initial review, some confident and proprietary 21 22 financial information relating to Ezralow and/or the 22 23 project that was submitted on a confidential basis to the 23 24 City, and I believe it should not have been produced. 24 25 Perhaps, it was produced by mistake. I had nothing to do 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 113 with this production, but I would object to any use of that document. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Take a look at Exhibit 31. Do you recognize Exhibit 31? A. I recognize it. Q. Okay. Did you receive a copy of it on or about May 26, 2000? A. Probably a day or two after. Q. And do you know why you were CCed on this? A. Because I am one of the persons involved in the redevelopment of the Huntington Center. Q. Did you, as one of the persons involved in the development of the Huntington Center and as its Housing and Redevelopment Manager, make any comments on the draft specific plans that were submitted by Eiralow? A. Yes, we did. Q.. When you say we — I'm sorry. When was that? A. When was that? It's In your documents. I don't remember the particular dates, whether we did it on the first draft or the second draft, so there was a response from the Economic Development Department to Jane James to comment on the — Q. Is this what you're talking about, Exhibit 12, the last page of it? 114 A. Yes, correct. Q. So any other comments from the Economic Development Department at all relative to any specific plans that were submitted by Ezralow? A. No, this was the only feedback the Economic Development Department provided the Planning Department on the specific plan. Q. Did the Economic Development Department ever make any comments verbally about the draft specific plans that were submitted that pertained to Burlington Coat Factory's inclusion or exclusion? A. No. Q. When you received this memo, which is Exhibit 31, did you respond to it in writing? A. No, we did not respond. Q. Okay. Why is that? A. Because we felt the draft specific plan was properly presented and we had given our feedback to the first draft, so them was no need for us to provide additional feedback. Q. Okay. Did Ray Silver or Melanie Fallon ever ask you, as the Housing and Redevelopment Manager and as the person involved in the redevelopment of the Huntington Center shopping mall, to provide or obtain some type of opinion relative to the status of the Burlington Coat 115 1 Factory? 2 } A. No. 3 Q. I want to have you take a look at -- 4 MR. TUCHMAN: III ask the reporter to mark for 5 identification as Exhibit -- strike that. 6 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 7 Q. What is the Design Review Board? 8 A. The Design Review Board is a board appointed, I 9 think, by the Planning Department to review the design 10 features of a particular project. They work with the 11 Planning Department. It's a board that works with the 12 Planning Department. 13 Q. Does the Design Review Board have anything to do 14 with the Economic Development Department in terms of the 15 exchange of information in the development of a project? 16 A. Not at all. 17 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. I'm going to ask reporter to 18 mark for identification as Exhibit 32, this is a letter 19 dated June 2, 2000, to Huntington Center Associates, CC to 20 James Hughes." 21 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 32 was marked 22 for identification by the court 23 reporter and is attached hereto.) 24 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 25 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 3 2? 116 29 (Pages 113 to 116) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 A. Let me read it. 1 2 Q. Take your time. 2 3 A. Yes, I do. 3 4 Q. Okay. Did you prepare Exhibit 32? 4 5 A. Yes, I did. 5 6 Q. And you can tell because of the little code at 6 7 the bottom; correct? 7 8 A. Correct. 8 9 Q. What does that G mean? 9 10 A. G? t0 11 Q. Yeah. 11 12 A. That's the drive in the computer server, the 12 13 server. 13 14 Q. And then "slash means Gus," meaning you? 14 15 A. Correct. 15 16 Q. What's "HB Mall" mean? 16 17 A. That's a,folder in the computer. 17 18 Q. And that pertains to the -- 18 19 A. Huntington Beach MaIL i9 20 Q. Okay. And then this next slash says L-e-t-o-n? 20 21 A. Uh-huh. 21 22 Q. Is that a "yes"? 22 23 A. Yes, correct. 23 24 Q. What does that mean? 24 25 A. just a name given to the document. 25 117 1 Q. letter --does it mean "letter on property 1 2 document"? 2 3 A. Correct, and proposal. Letter and proposal 3 4 document. 4 5 Q. What was the purpose of sending this letter? 5 6 A. To give you information that this was going to be 6 7 heard by the City Council. Since you had claimed that you 7 8 were not informed of previous meetings, we wanted to make 8 9 sure you were fully aware of all meetings held in this 9 10 particular project 10 11 Q. Okay. This letter is addressed to Huntington 11 12 Center Associates, Mr. Duran 12 13 A. I'm sorry. But your company was also given the 13 14 letter. 14 15 Q. Okay. So there was a letter that also went to 15 16 Tuchman & Associates that was similar to Exhibit 32? 16 17 A. Correct 17 18 Q: Who else received a letter similar to Exhibit 32? 18 19 A. Montgomery Ward's, their attorneys, Burlington 19 20 and their attorneys, and Ezralow and their attorneys. 20 21 Q. Okay. And had you determined who the 21 22 redevelopment -- whose proposal would be acceptable as of 22 23 June 2,2000? 23 24_ A. No, we were in amidst of analyzing the proposals, 24 25 but we had to make sure that— I think we have about two 25 118 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER or three weeks where we had to submit our documents to the City Administrator, and eventually those documents go to the City Clerk, and that's why we had to alert you as to just when it was scheduled to be. Q. Okay. And does the Economic Development Department have the power to select a developer? A. No, we don't. Q. Who has that power? A. The Board — the Redevelopment Agency board. Q. And the Economic Development Department does have the power to make recommendations? A. We don't have the power. We have the responsibility to make recommendations to the Redevelopment Agency or to the City Council on matters entrusted to us. Q. Okay. Thank you. Did you receive any complaints from an attorney named Wallach? A. No. Q. Did you receive any complaints from any other tenants at Huntington Center Mail? A. I received some telephone calls from some of the tenants indicating they're unhappiness with their lease termination. Q. And how did you handle that? A. I indicated to them that that's something between their landlord and themselves 119 Q. Do you remember how many calls you fielded? A. About two or three. Q. Do you remember the names of the tenants? A. I don't remember the names I remember one fellow was a jeweler, I believe. The other one was somebody that sells seashells. Q. Did the Economic Development Department, in response to these complaint phone calls, offer any assistance? A. We offered to help them find locations somewhere else if they wanted to make themselves available of those services Q. Did they ask for that help? A. Some of them did, yes Q. And was that help provided? A. They never really moved on that particular help. Yes, we did — some of them — I think the jeweler. We sent plans of shopping centers in other areas where there were vacancies, and we gave them the names of the brokers marketing those particular shopping centers. Q. Did you offer any assistance to Burlington Coat Factory relative to their situation with the landlord? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: Not at all. 120-1 30 (Pages 117 to 120) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BUt%,6INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. What role do you see the Economic Development Department having relative to the relationship between Ezralow and Burlington? A. I don't know. Q. Did you have — do you communicate by e-mail with anybody at the City? A. Yes. Q. And who do you communicate with by e-mail? A. David Biggs, my employees, other City staff. Q. When you received.the Subpoena and'you prepared the documents, did you search your e-mails? A. Yes, I did. Q. And did you provide copies of all e-mails? A. None of the a -mails relate to the particular topic. Q. Did you ask Mr. Biggs to search his e-mail files? A. I did not, since he was subpoenaed himselL Q. Okay. You know what the ICSC convention is; right? A. Yes, I am. Q. You didn't attend it this year? A. I did not Q. Mr. Lamb attended it? A. Yes, correct. 121 1 Q. Did you speak to him about the convention? 2 A. No, other than he had a good time. 3 Q. Did he have a good time? 4 A. He worked very hard. He had to stand on his feet 5 for 14 hours or something like that 6 Q. Do you know as part of the business development 7 attraction in your department, but that's not really your 8 area; correct? 9 A. Correct 10 Q. Did Mr. Lamb — who else attended from the City? 11 A. David Biggs, Jim Lamb, Linda Saracci. I believe 12 Howard Zelefsky, but I'm not sure. 13 Q. Did you discuss with anybody in your department 14 as to whether Burlington was discussed at the convention? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did you discuss — did you have— were you aware 17 the Economic Development Department had a booth promoting 18 The Crossings?. 19 A. Yea, I ate.- 20. Q. Were you involved in the preparation of any of 21 the materials? 22 A. No, I was not 23 Q. Okay. Were you aware that a videotape was 24 presented to the public? 25. A. Yes, I am. 122 I Q. Have you seen that videotape? 2 A. I have seen it.. 3 Q. Does it refer to Burlington in any way? 4 A. No, It does not 5 Q. Was the videotape submitted to you for 6 informational purposes by Ezralow or did you request it? 7 A. It was submitted to as to show us what they were 8 doing to market the Huntington Beach Center. 9 Q. As far as you know, have there been new tenant 10 contacts through the Economic Development Department for 11 the shopping center? 12 A. Through, no. 13 Q. Is it part — and I know this isn't exactly your 14 department, but is it the Economic Development Department's 15 responsibility to try and develop tenants for the shopping 16 center? 17 A. For all the shopping centers in Huntington Beach, 18 yes. That Is part of our role. 19 Q. What has the Economic Development Department done 20 to develop tenants for The Crossings? 21 A. I have not been involved in that facet. 22 MR. TUCHMAN: Let's take a five-minute break. I 23 think we're just about done. 24 THE WITNESS: Okay. 25 (A brief recess was taken.) 123 1 MR. TUCHMAN: Let's go back on the record. 2, BY MR. TUCHMAN: 3 Q. What is the next step? Are there any future 4 contemplated activities other than entering into the OPA 5 relative to the Huntington Center? 6 A. No, that's the only thing. Once you enter into 7 the OPA, then whatever the OPA calls for, it's our job and 8 Ezralow's job to implement that, whatever is in the OPA. 9 Q. Have you discussed the possibility of having an 10 OPA Entered into with Montgomery Ward's? 11 A. Not at this point in time. 12 Q. Have you ever had any conversations with anyone 13 directly from Burlington? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Have you provided the lease that was provided to 16 you from Burlington to anyone? 17. A. No. 18 Q. Have you made the determination — 19 A. Wait Walt Yes, to our legal counsel. 20 Q. Okay. Have you discussed this matter — did you 21 discuss your deposition with anyone at the City? 22 A. Other than the fact that I was coming here. 23 Q. Who did you discuss that with? 24 A. My assistant who knew I had to be out of the 25 office, Linda Suracci, who is the department's 124 31 (Pages 121 to 124) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 l0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24. 25 Administrative Assistant, so they would'know I would be out of the ollfce, especially since we were going to have a birthday party, lancheou birthday party today. Q. Is it your birthday? A. No. MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. All right. I don't have any further questions of this witness. MR. SHIPOW: I don't have any questions. MR. TUCHMAN: I propose that the reporter be relieved -- Mr. Tepper? MR. TEPPER: Yes, go ahead. MR. TUCHMAN. I propose that the reporter be relieved of her duties under the. Code with respect to maintaining the original and obtaining signature; that the transcript be forwarded to Mr. Tepper at Mr. Kane's office with a cover letter CCed to myself and Mr. Shipow; that Mr. Duran will have 30 days upon Mr. Tepper's receipt of the transcript to sign it under penalty of perjury and make corrections; that it will be Mr. Tepper's responsibility to notify me and Mr. Shipow in writing of the changes to the transcript and signature; that it will be Mr. Tepper's responsibility to provide me with the original transcript of this matter, and I'll make it available upon reasonable request of any proceeding in this matter. In the event the transcript is not signed and corrected after a 30-day 125 period, an unsigned, certified copy will be usable for all appropriate purposes in lieu of the original. Is that acceptable, Mr. Duran? MR. SHIPOW: And if for some reason the original is not available, a copy can be used. MR. TUCHMAN: Is that acceptable? MR. SHIPOW: Yes. MR. TUCHMAN: Mr. Duran? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. TEPPER: I have a question. Are the exhibits going to be appended to the deposition transcript? (Discussion held off record.) MR. TEPPER: Yes, I do want them appended. Subject to that, yes, we stipulate. I want a big thick deposition. MR. SHIPOW: For each person? MR. TEPPER. Absolutely. (Whereupon the deposition concluded at 12:36 p.m.) 126 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 32 (Pages 125 to 126) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00- BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER abbott 3:14 85:17,24 ability 37:11,22 able 32:25 33:2 39:11 about 7:9 10:21 14:18 22:9 23:1 26:14 33:12 36:6 36:18 42:20 46:20 46:24 47:3 48:5-'12 49:1 53:4 57:19 58:5 59:3,4,5,22 64:9 66:9 70:24,24 72:13 73:4,11 75:22 76:10,12 79:23 80:10 81:19 81:23,24 82:1,2,25 86:12,19 90:16 93:15 100:1 101:1 101:4 102:24 104:10,11 105:1,8 106:4 110:18 114:7,24 115:9 118:25 120:2 122:1 123:23 Absolutely 126:17 acceptable 118:22 126:3,6 accepted 83:18 access 45:24 accounting 14:4 acknowledging 76:23 acquire 41:1 Act 107:23 acting 20:13 23:7 38:13 66:14 action 75:1177:18 77:20 78:2,4,22 80:4,7 89:1 actions 21:7,9,1012 21:13,13 39:18:20 40:3,7 60:8 77:11 activities 23:5 102:1 124:4 actually 67:14 72.4 81:20 87:21 added 88:14 addition 83:2186.21 87:10 89-23,24 96:9 additional 20:2 . 115:20 address 6:16,17 addressed 118:11 addressing 85:9 administer 30:1 administration 14:15 20:18,20 Administrative 125:1 administrator 17:1 21:1 24:12 33:25 42:1,10,19 43:5 76:15 119:2 Administrator's 43:19 advice 79:12 advise 66:2104:19 advised 24:11 after 8:4,8 52:11 56:6 78:24,24 88:14,14 89:21 100:4,6 103:21 108:25 109:3,7,9 114:9 125:25 again 24:6 35:9 37:19 44:4 45:13 47:23 59:17 78:11 79:19 87:16 94:18 98:11 110:17 112:24 against 75:12 76:22 78:17 80:7 agencies 60:7 agency 14:21 15:10 16:14 18:8,10 20:25 23:1127:2,6. 28:1 29:17 31:3 33:8,23 34:6,7,22 35:20 36:14 37:6 38:10,14,15 39:12 40:13 41:14 49:8 50:11,12,15 51:4,5 51:14 53:11,15 56:3 60:19 62:10 66:14 74:2175:10 77:5 79:7 80:17 81:3 86:23,24 87:23 89:199:5 119:9,14 Agency's 29:16 agendas 54:20 82:10 agree 93:24 agreement 40:23,25 ahead 24:14 67:1 76:5 125:11 aim 48:13 alert 119:3 avowed 2623 along 109:13 already 40:24 42:13 67:14 76:21 110:5 110:7 always 19:13 22:2 ambiguous 24:3 ' 27:14 29:18 48:6 50:21 54:22 59:14 amended 83:20 amendments 25:15 amidst 118:24 among 95:19,23 Amy 2:20 9:9 Anaheim 14:12 analysis 34:9,14 51:25 52:2,5 89:4 analytical 89:10 analyze 37:9,10 38:10,16 analyzed 37:13 analyzing 89:10 118:24 Andreski 16:19 17:11 Andreskd's 18:20 and/or 113:22 Angeles 2:25 3:5,11 3:16 6:2 35:2 announced 56:23 another 16:22 28:9,9 58:2 82:24 88:2 110:6 answer 5:6 8:124:2 24:5 27:15,17 29:21,22 47:12,22 50:22 54:17 55:11 56:1,24 59:16 65:8 67:3 74:16 75:14 75:15,16,25 76:1,2 76:4,6 78:10 80:23 91:15 95:4 96:17 96:18,19 105:12 106:10 108:17 110:20111:14 answered 22:15 67:1 75:23 80:25 92:15 94:6 105:22 111:22112:23 answering 102:2 anticipate 39:22 40:17 anybody 11:16 33:18 41:22 43:23 49:24 58:25 61:13,19 63:2,20 70:9 78:4 79:25 96:23 100:8 100:11 105:15,19 121:7122:13 anyone 25:23 26:1,4 36:141:13 43:14 43:17,20 44:6 48:2149:7 57:22 64:1 75:18 76:11 77:9,10 80:6 81:6 81:7 112:1 124:12 124:16,21 anything 17:6,8,11 18:6,13,23 19:2,5 22:19,2133:8 35:13 44:20 46:25 51:6 52:6 59:7 72:14 93:6 109:9 111:17 116:13 anyway 80:25 anywhere 80:6 103:16 aperture 71:9 apparently 48:14 APPEARANCES 3:1 appended 126:11,13 applicable 14:3 applicants 25:13 application 26:20 27:1,1,11,23,25 29:8 81:10 92:22 93:3,6 96:10 applications 26:12 26:17 appointed 116:8 appraisal 39:7,8 55:15,18 appraisals 41:7 60:5 appraise 38:21 appraiser 38:25 39:2 appraisers 38:20,20 38:21 appropriate 126:2 approval 21:9,10,12 22:3,6 57:16 approve 25:13 approved 17:2121:8 April 4:12,14,15,16 4:17 68:6,16 82:14 84:7 85:4 90:6,16 90:24 91:23 99:21 99:24,25100:4,6 100:16 101:2,10 103:8 105:5,15 109:1,7 110:10 111:8,23,23 arbitration 77:18 78:6 Architects 30:25 architectural 13:7 area 14:18,19,24,24 122:8 areas 37:13 120:18 argue 95:2 96:5,6 101:18,18 arguing 109:24 argumentative 59:13 59:14 94:7 96:15 101:7 108:10 109:14110:13 arguments 107:14 107:16 110:19 around 44:20 57:23 62:4 array 14:4 arrived 42:16 56:22 Arts 26:21 asked 8:5,2011:17 22:12 67:168:10 77:14 93:4 94:6 95:3 96:14 97:17 98:16105:1,5 107:10108:20,22 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 127 110:15 112:23 asking 8:18 47:13 93:16 97:18 109:5 asks 94:9 aspect 23:16 aspects 18:15 asses 65:11 assigned 77:6, assist 26:9 81:8 assistance 29:16 120:9,21 assistant 14:14,16 16:25 17:1 18:21 42:1,10,18 43:5 124:24 125:1 associate 97:22 108:21 109:17,18 associates 1:9 2:9,24 3:3 18:23 30:24 31:4 34:2,4 35:16 35:18,23 36:2 37:22 39:3 41:22 73:12 74:25 83:11 86:6 90:6,14 91:18 91:24 97:8 98:10 99:1 100:17 102:16 106:24 107:5 112:21 116:19118:12,16 Associate's 109:1 111:8 assume 8:19 94:8 assumes 80:19 85:5 94:7,18 96:15 120:23 athletic -type 70:22 attach 89:15 attached 9:18 83:6 84:1185:20 86:16 87:11,12 89:25 90:9 91:3 92:3 100:20102:20 164:7 106:21 110:3 113:15 116:23 attachment 88:25 89:1,3,12,16 112:6 attachments 98:23 98:25 99:19 attempt 78:5 80:20 113:6 attempted 95:7 attempts 49:11 attend 12:22 33:7,11 44:19 68:2169:1,3 69:10121:22 attendance 53:7 55:25 67:19 attended 13:6 37:5 . 38:2 45:15 46:19 121:24122:10 Attendees 68:7 attending 13:13 68:15 attention 21:16 64:5 64:24 attorney 8:19 45:1 63:24 119:16 attorneys 63:25 102:3 118:19,20,20 attorney/client 55:12 55:19 91:14 attraction 122:7 authored 43:10 Authority 14:18,19 14:20 authorization 22:3,6 39:7 41:6 authorized 21:22 available 45:22 92:23,24 93:2,8 99:4,12 107:9 120:11 125:23 126:5 aviv 2:24 3:3,3 avoid 8:1 aware 11:16,19 12:2 12:8,12,14,17,19 17:16 18:1,12 43:4 43:8 63:23 71:12 71:13 76:17 77:16 77:17,19 81:6 87:5 87:7 103:4 118:9 122:16,23 away 70:23 89:21 a.m 2:23 6:1 Bachelor's 13:9 back 12:15 28:2 42:3 59:20 67:13 68:3 76:3,7,9 78:13 98:12,14 101:23 105:23 106:1 110:23,25 111:21 113:19 124:1 background 12:21 badgering 110:14 BALLMER 3:9 banker's 10:8- banlong-14:22 Barnes 61:17,18,25 base 40:1 based 25:9,10 basically 32:5 46:22 46:23 53:11 89:8 89:15 basis 21:5 113:23 Bay-14:24 beach 1:5 2:5 6:19 7:18 11:17 15:4,7 15:10,10,11,13,21 21:23 22:1,2 23:10 29:17 31:3 38:14 38:16 41:20 42:17 68:7 85:11 95:20 95:24 98:1 117:19 123:8,17 became 14:9,14,23 become 24:12 42:18 before 2:20 7:2 11:21 29:1 31:10 32:9 52:22 57:6 64:14 77:1 90:11 92:5 99:9 beginning 42:21 behalf 2:20 6:6 27:2 27:25 66:14 88:19 being 8:20 34:3 43:8 63:24 75:4 78:1 94:19 believe 28:3 32:23 80:2 83:21 91:5 97:8113:20,24 120:5 122:11 Benson 16:23 19:2 BERKMAN 3:9 besides 43:15 72:10 75:18 76:9 106:4 best 8:14 9:4 better 59:17 between 17:19 25:1 30:8;9 49:22 59:9 62:21 70:16 75:8 75:19 77:6,11 81:4 95:19,23 110:10 119:24 121:3 big 126:14 biggs 3:8 11:6,7 19:12,13,25 20:12 20:22 21:4,8,12,20 22:3,9,19 23:1,6,22 24:7,11 25:21 34:1 40:15 56:2 64:7,12 66:7,9 69:6 73:16 74:11,14,20 75:18 75:22 76:10 80:12 80:16 81:2,7 90:20 90:24 91:9 102:17 106:6 112:14,20 113:1,2;5-121:10 121:17 122:11 birthday 125:3,3,4 bit 10:22 29:11 Block 16:12 blueprints 45:23 board 33:23 50:11 50:12 56:3 99:5,7 116:7,8,8,11,13 119:9,9 Board's 50:16 Bobbi 16:25 17:1 book 61:15 booth 122:17 boss 23:2 both 25:7 27:7,8 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 39:13 44:14 bottom 58:7 64:15 64:17 117:7 Boulevard 2:25 3:4 Bower 76:17 box 10:4,7,7,8,9,10 84:19 107:2 break 67:10 123:22 breed 3:14 85:17,23 87:11 108:1,6 brief 67:12 82:19 123:25 briefly 14:8,9 bring 71:5 brochures 45:18 brokers 120:19 brought 64:23 78:18 80:7 Brown 14:15 bruce 3:9 10:5 32:24 Brunson 16:19 17:8 Bryan 44:17 45:5 46:6 Buena 7:15 15:2,5 burlington 1:5 2:5 12:4,9 38:17,22 39:8 40:6 41:15 42:23 47:3,6 48:11 49:5,9,12,14,19,22 50:1,5,19 51:6,11 51:16,20 52:12 53:17,20,23 54:14 54:21 55:2,7,14 59:10 61:5,11 62:7 62:20,24 63:3,9,18 66:25 67:6 70:10 71:1,3 72:11'13,24 73:2,4 74:18 75:1 75:8,12,20 76:11 77:7,11 78:18 80:7 81:4,8 84:21,23 85:2 93:25 94:2 95:14 99:2 105:2,3 105:6,8,10,16,20 115:10,25 118:19 120:21 121:4 122:14 123:3 124:13,16 business 13:24 14:1 20:3,6 74:19,21 122:6 buy 52:19 BA 13:16 B.S 13:18 C 3:8 Cal 13:8,16 california 1:1,6 2:1,6 2:22,25 3:5,11,16 6:2,20 61:23,24 call 28:14 31:16 82:7 82:16 85:14 called 6:6 13:13 28:16,20 34:15 41:10 74:3,24,25 81:21 94:19 calls 21:16 29:12,18 47:10,18 58:11 75:9 119:20120:1 120:8 124:7 came 28:24 37:5 46:6 48:20 59:2,4 59:4 71:14 72:4 97:8 107:2 108:21 109:17 Candy 61:18 capacity 36:12,16 37:7,21 44:5 87:14 capital 14:18,19,19 16:22 37:17 Carol 16:2419:5 20:6,10 38:3 carry 21:11 25:7,8 39:22 40:3 case 1:8 2:8 40:1 79:1 cases 27:17,18 Casey 37:25 catalogue 32:5 catalogued 71:12 cataloguing 32:1 71:10 categories 94:22,25 category 63:18 CC 103:2 116:19 CCed 102:17 114:10 125:16 CDBG 16:12 center 1:9 2:9 12:4 12:10,11 17:6,6,9 17:12,14,15 18:4,7 18:18,23 19:3,6 20:15,19 28:2 33:9 35:23 36:10,13 37:22,24,24 40:4,9 40:25 43:2,7,12 44:1,8 45:10,20 46:24 48:13,19 50:1,6 51:1 60:20 61:15,20 70:2,6,22 72:12 79:8 80:18 83:10,1184:17 85:1186:5 89:4 94:3 95:14 98:2' 114:12,14115:24 116:19 118:12 119:19 123:8,11,16 124:5 centers 35.14 120:18 120:20 123:17 Center's 35:4 71:7 certain 20:14 27:18 42:4,8 51:23 68:8 Page 128 96:24 102:9 certainly.59:12 94:22 certificates 13:13,14 13:22 14:2 certified 2:20 6:8 126:1 cetera 12:5 chance 100:24 change 86:11 changed 83:20 changes 8:8,10,10 25:14 26:13,17 27:24 86:9 125:20 charge 26:21 charged 92:7 check 42:8 63:8 84:22 92:17 checked 92:19 Chief 14:16 23:12 CIM 34:25 35:1,12 35:13 Cincinatti 13:10,20 Circuit 61:15,25 circumstances 27.20 27:22 68:18 cities 60:6102:8 City 7:15,1711:16 14:10,10,11,12 15:2,3,7,9,10,11,13 15:21 16:14 17:20 17:22 18:2,8,11 20:21 21:1,22,25 22:2 23:10 24:12 24:17 25:4 *27:4,10 27:20,21,25 29:8 29:17 31:3 33:8,24 33:25 34:6,20 35:20 38:14,15 40:12 41:14,19 42:1,9,10,16,18 43:5,19 45:15 48:20,2149:7,7,24 53:15 57:14 61:15 61:25 68:6 69:23 74:21 75:6,10,20 76:11,14 77:4 80:17 81:6 86:23 87:4 95:19,23 113:24 118:7 119:2,3,14121:7 121:10 122:10 . 124:21 City -owned 27:4 City/Redevelopment 38:10 claimed 118:7 clarify 8:25 86:11,11 93:19 clarifying 83:23 86:5 86:6 clear 47:18 107:13 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER cleared 85:12 Clerk 119:3 client 46:23 closed 10:16,18 32:22 33:7,19 46:8 46:12 52:18,19,23 52:23 53:2,21,24 54:15 55:4,5,6,13 55:22 56:7,22 103:14,15 coach 95:7 Coastal 25:15 coat 1:5 2:5 12:4 38:17,22 39:8 40:6 41:15 42:23 47:3,6 48:11 49:5,12,14 49:19 50:1,5,19 51:6,11 52:12 53:17,20,23 54:14 61:6 62:24 63:3,9 70:10 71:1,3 72:13 72:24 73:2,4 74:18 77:7 84:21,23 85:2 93:25 94:2 95:14 99:2 105:2,3,6,8,10 105:16,20115:10 115:25 120:21 code 58:7,10,18,21 64:19 117:6 125:13 College 13:6,7 come 88:16 comfortable 53:12 coming 69:15 124:22 commencing 2:22 commensurated 48:23 comment 8:10 79:12 114:23 comments 41:13 69:15,16 70:19,24 70:24 114:15 115:2,9 Commission 20:21 25:15 68:22 79:17 79:21 commissioners 69:20 70:6 Commissioner's 69:14 - communfcate 121:6 121:9 community 13:11 14:17 16:12 42:15 companies 83:24,24 company 1:10,11,11 1:11 2:10,11,11,11 15:134:15 35:2 39:1,2,5 45:9,9 46:15 61:7 84:8 118:13 comparing 89:8 Compel 77:18 complaint 78:20,22 78:25 120:8 complaints 119:15 119:18 complete 112:5 completed 8:4,9 40:18 computer 64:19 117:12,17 computers 14:5 concern 48:21 concerning 95:18,22 concerns 52:17 69:2 concluded 126:19 conclusion 29:12,19 75:10 condemnation 41:8 conditional 25:14 26:13,23 conditions 26:16 38:10 conduct 38:11 conference 23:7 confident 113:21 confidential 113:23 conflicts 68:11 connection 7:16 35:22 43:25 44:7 consider 60:5 consult 21:19 consultant 14:9,10 16:23 18:11,22 34:5,19 35:19 consultants 16:20 consultants/experts 38:16 consulted 14:10 103:6 contact 11:1 21:4 23:19 69:19,23. 77:9 contacts 123:10, contained 63:2164:3 99:19 contains 9:15 113:20 contemplate 41:8 contemplated 124:4 contemplating 39:14 content73:14 context97:18 CONTINUED 5:1 continuously 15:12 105:8 contract 17:10,19 30:24 contracting 60:5 convention 121:19 122:1,14 conversation 45:21 47:2 80:15 112:14 112:20 113:1,5 conversations 36:23 36:25 37:2,4,15,16 42:22,25 45:11,13 45:14,16,19 64:1 70:17 71:2 124:12 Coordinator 14:14 copied 88:11,13 102:5 copies 84:16 101:13 102:8,10 104:1 109:10,22,23 121:14 copy 32:9,10 58:2 76:2177:2 78:20 84:22 85:2 89:20 94:16 97:9110:5,5 110:6,7,8 112:12 114:7 126:1,5 copying 88:15 Corporation 1:6 2:6 correct 8:3,7 9:25 10:1 11:3 15:15 18:1919:9,10 20:2 20:9,12,16 21:3,23 21:24 25:18,19 30:16 31:2132:19 33:3,25 37:12,23 41:7 42:12 51:3 54:25 61:9;10 62:5 62:9,12,14 63:11 64:20.72:6,20,22 73:12,13 74:15,17 81:15,17 83:1314 83:18,19 86:15:18 86:20 87:2,21 895 89:10,14,19 90:14 90:15,20,2191:6,7 97:5,6 98:8,24 99:11 100:7 101:3 101:5 103:149 106:14 107:2,6,7 108:7 109:2 110:1 112:8,9 115:1 117:7,8,15,23 118:3,17 121:25 122:8,9 corrected 125:25 corrections 125:19 correspondence 22:8 103:4 Corridor 17:13 council 17:22 20:21 33:24 45:15 53:1 57:15 69:24 70:2 76:17 118:7 119:14 Council/Redevelo... 33:8 counsel 3:18:1010:5 40:16,16 46:22 60:22 75:23,25 76:1 99:20103:3 124:19 count 101:19 county 1:2 2:2 14:11 couple 13:7 36:5, 38:24 42:3 44:17. course 112:5 courses 13:15 14:4,5 court 1:1 2:17:21 9:17 59:20 76:7 77:25 78:13,24 79:1183:5 84:10 85:19 90:8 91:2 92:2 98:14100:19 102:19104:6 106:1,20110.25 111:21 113:14 116:22 cover 86:9 94:23,25 112:6125:16 covered 95:13 covering 14:4102:8 co -applicant 29:9,16 co -applicants 28:4 Crafts 26:22 Crossings 69:3 81:21 113:18 122:18 123:20 current 16:16 cut 24:7 " C-A-D-A 14:20 daily 23:4 date 7:14 42:4 88:12 99:16 100:4,4 109:3,9 dated 4:12,13,14,15 4:16,17,18,19,20 4:21,22 57:12 64:6 65:4 84:7 85:17 90:6,23100:15 102:15 103:7 104:3105:5 106:17108:25 109:7 116:19 dates 33:15 46:3;4 52:24 99:20 114:20 david 3:8 11:6 19:12 19:13 20:12,22 33:25 40:15 56:2 64.7 80:12 90:24 102:17 121:10 122:11 day 23:20 75:6 79:11 79:17,20 90:17 114:9 days 125:17 day -today 21:5 23:16 DDA 40:20,22 dead 86:1 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 129 deal 48:14 49:5 52:19 December 52:21 decide 21:17 decided 41:2 decision 41:10 50:8 . 50:10,16 51:1 56:6 56:9 79:10 100:9 100:10 105:17 decisions 23:13 declaration 77:14 declined 74:5 defendants 1:13 2:13 3:13 75:11 degree 13:9,11 28:19 51:23 DeKreek 16:20,22 18:22,25 Delaware 1:9,10,11 2:9,10,11 delineate 70:14 deliver 10:5 demanded 109:22 demonstration 87:9 department 11:10,13 11:15,1712:6,7;8 14:1619:20,21,23' 20:13 22:123:7,17 23:20,24 24:9,22 25:2,3,5,6,12,17,24 26:2,4,8,8,11,13,17 26:18,25 27:11,23 30:23 31:3 36:15 38:13 42:16 51:5,9 51:10,15,19 52:4,6 52:6,10,12 58:19 66:14 71:19 72:18 73:6 77:5 81:3 82:5,10 85:4 89:23 92:17,19 93:4,9 94:15 97:12 99:7 99:13 114:22 115:3,6,6,8 116:9 116:11,12,14 119:6 119:10 120:7 121:3 122:7,13,17 123:10,14,19 departments 25:7 52:4,7,8 department's 30:4 85:14 87:8 123:14 124:25 depending 22:7 39:21 68:25 69:4 depends 27:3 deposition 1:18 2:19 4:10 7:1,11,16 9:1411:22 22:9,17 22:24 28:21 101:17 107:15,17 124:21 126:11,15 126:19 describe 13:5 14:7 23:9 48:9 Description 4:9 design 116:7,8,9,13 desire 34:14 desk 94:14 detail 48:9 detailing 52:16 details 31:17 49:21 63:23,24 determination 21:19 50:4,13 62:15 79:13 97:1 103:22 105:21 106:2 124:18 determine 37:6,21 39:12 50:18,25 64:22 103:23 determined 36:15,17 39:19 40:2,8 50:7 62:10 118:21 determines 68:24 69:6 determining 32:18 develop 29:7,14 37:22 123:15,20 developer 14:23 34:11,12,13 39:21 40:2 79:7 89:24 119:6 developers 88:7 developer's 88:6,20 development 12:6 13:12 14:17,18,19 14:20 16:12 18:16 19:17,18,21,23 20:3.6 22:1 23:16 23:24 24:9,22 25:2 25:5 26:8,17,25 . 27:10,23 30:23 31:2 35:2 36:15 38:13 40:25 42:15 51:5,15,19 52:10 52:17 58:19 66:13 73:5 77:5 81:3 85:3 89:22 98:1 99:7,13 114:14,22 115:3,6,8 116:14 116:15 119:5,10 120:7 121:2122:6 122:17 123:10,14 123:19 difference 30:8,9 different 16:8 54:20 70:16 72:3 82:8 differently 58:20 difficult 48:14 difficulties 47:25 difficulty 47:6,8 48:10 Dinovitz 44:21,22,22 44:23,24 45:20 direct 17:14 69:19 69:23 directly 11:17 43:15 70:1,5 108:23 124:13 Director 14:15 19:17 19:18 20:25 23:10 43:24 Director's 23:14 disability 9:3 disagree 93:24 discipline 13:7 Discovery 107:23 discuss 36:11.57:22 58:24 62:20 74:11 78:22 80:6,9 91:8 100:11 122:13,16 124:21,23 discussed 33:9 36:12 40:5,7 46:21 49:22 53:17,20,24 54:15 55:6,17 69:5 82:11 91:12 122:14 124:9,20 discussion 48:20 57:2 96:11 126:12 discussions 46:23 95:18,21,22,25 dismissed 77:25 79:4 80:2 disposition 40:25 dispute 73:25 74:24 75:1 108:5 distinguish 70:16 document 41:2 58:8 58:9 64:19 68:3 71:18 81:13,20 94:9,19 95:5 108:20,21 114:2 117:25 118:2,4 doing 34:10 66:1 79:24 123:8 Donahue 39:1,3,4 41:4 done 17:23 18:10 28:6 123:19,23 Doug 44:17 45:12 46:7 66:6 Douglas 64:7 77:23 .78:23 down 15:1 draft 114:15,21,21 115:9,17,19 drafted 30:20 draw 64:5 73:24 drive 117:12 due 14:25 28:18 duly 6:7 durnn 1:19 2:19 6:5 6:15 9:14 19:25 21:7 32:25 41:12 50:8 64:18 68:24 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 69:7 70:1,5 84:7 91:24 93:18,20 96:23 100:16 102:16 104:4 105:24 107:21 118:12 125:17 126:3,8 during 11:14 110:12 duties 7:17 15:20,23 1.5:24 20:10,17 23:9 25:11 102:1 125:13 duty 96:14 D-e 16:22 each 32:1,4 90:3 92:16 101:9 103:19 105:8 108:18 126:16 earlier 15:1 46:4 economic 12:6 13:12 18:16 19:17,17,21 19:23 22:1 23:16 23:23 24:9,2125:2 25:5 26:7,16,25 27:10,23 30:23 31:2 34:5,14 36:15 38:13 51:5,14,18 52:10,17 58:19 66:13 73:5 77:4 81:2 85:3 89:22 99:6,13 114:22 115:2,5,8 116:14 119:5,10 120:7 121:2 122:17 123:10,14,19 EDAW 17:17,20,23 18:2,6,10,10,16 EDD 71:23 82:6 Edinger 17:13 Edison 61:23,24 education 13:3 educational 12:20 effect -7:21 87:23 eight 15:24 16:16,16 16:17 either 21:14 42:20 67:6 El 14:10 elaborate 74:20 82:9 elected 24:16,18 41:19 49:25 Eli 20:5 eligible 64:23 elsewhere 103:17 emphasis 13:11 .employee 7:17 41:19 employees 121:10 employer 15:9,11 employment 12:21 14:7 enclosures 98:9 108:8 109:13 110:2,12 111:1,9 encompasses 17:14 end 42:6,20 engaged 18:13,16 30:23 English 96:4 ensuring 61:1 enter 124:6 entered 17:19,21 124:10 entering 124:4 entire 89:17 entirely 108:15 110:17 entities 51:2 entrusted 119:14 environmental 18:12 equipment 38:21 41:3 escrow 52:22 83:23 83:24 especially 125:2 ESQ 3:3,9,14 establish 14:21 81:10 establishments 70:20 estate 14:23 38:25 39:5 55:15,18 et 12:5 even 39:25 61:18 .68:8 74:24 event125:24 eventually 119:2 ever 7:1 23:4,22 24:7 24:21 26:1 28:16 31:1.0 35:16 36:1 38:3,6 41:12,18 42:22,25 43:10 45:1 47:2,3 49:11 57:6,22 58:25 61:8 64:1 66:18,24 72:12 76:17,18 77:14 79:16,20. 81:2,10 82:6 90:11 92:5 98:25 104:20 115:8,21 124:12 every 24:25 28:7,7 105:9111:22 everybody 80:9 everything 33:2 55:11 90:2 109:4 110:8 111:16 evict 66:18 evidence 8020 85:6 94:7 96:16 120:24 exact 101:8 exactly 102:12 123:13 EXAMINATION 4:2 6:11 examined 6:8 Page 130 example 26:20 88:10 exceeded 107:10 except 20:12 exchange 116:15 exclude 96:1 exclusion 115:11 Excuse 28:15 executed 17:22 Executive 20:25 23:10,12,14 exhibits 4:8 5:191:8 91:10 126:10 expert 41:4 expires 63:7 explained 49:1 explaining 86:9 expressed 48:22 71:15 extended 20:13 extent 26:7 ezralow 1:10,11 2:10 2:11 12:5 17:25 33:18 35:5,8,25 36:10,12,15 37:7 37:2139:1140:2,5 41:13 44:10,16,17 45:5,17 46:7,15 49:22 51:1,5,10,15 52:19 53:12,14 59:10 61:6,12 62:7 64:18 65:12,13 66:18 75:2,8,19 76:11,22 77:6,12 78:18 80:8,18 81:4 81:7,8,1183:13 84:7 87:1,6,11,20 88:19 89:2,17 95:19 97:10,23 98:21 109:11 113:22 114:16 115:4 118:20 121:4 123:6 Ezralow's 41:13 62:13 87:14 124:8 E-D-A-W 17:17 e-mail 121:6,9,17 e-mails 121:12,14,15 facet123:21 facility 70:22 fact 66:22 71:4 78:24 101:6124:22 factor 79:13 factory 1:5 2:5 12:4 38:17,22 39:9 40:6 41:16 42:23 47:4 48:11 49:5,12 50:1 50:5,19 51:6,11 52:13 53:17,20,23 54:14 62:24 63:3 63:10 70:10 71:1,3 3ILI0.& ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 72:13,24 73:2,4 77:7 84:21,23 85:2 93:25 94:2 99:2 105:2,3,6,8,10,16 105:21 116:1 120:22 Factory's 115:10 facts 80:19 85:5 94:7 96:15 120:23 fair 26:22 30:5 fall 63:18 Fallon 41:23,25 42:23 43:1,5,11,16 115:21 familiar 10:13 28:12 30:5,7,19 51:22,24 78:14,18 81:14 far 25:11 28:11 29:23 79:2 123:9 Farmer's 26:21 father 44:23 Fauland 72:16,21 feasibility 38:11 features 116:10 February 74:7 Federal 16:1171:14 75:11 feedback 115:5,18. 115:20 feel 66:10 feet 122:4 fellow 109:19 120:5 felt 53:11 65:24 115:17 few 72:4 fictional 110:18 Field 102:17 fielded 120:1 Fifth 3:15 Figueroa 3:10 file 10:15,17,20 12:12 26:20,23 32:2133:2 76:22 83:25 87:17,18,20 87:22 88:20 103:13,14 107:2 110:9 filed 27:11,23,24 28:3 32:20 75:12 75:12 files 27:1,129:8 32:1 32:5 71:10,12,14 71:17 88:9102:4 105:9 110:8 121:17 filing 27:12 filling 16:20 final 41:2 financed 16:5 financial 21:13 34:9 34:19 35:19 37:10 38:9 39:10 65:11 87:14113:22 financially 39:13 financing 16:7,10 find 48:14 120:10 fine 22:14 58:24 94:20 fire 52:5 firm 34:5 38:9 74:18 firms 35:11 first 6:7 31:11 33:1 36:12 40:144:23 44:25 57:7,10 60:10,11 72:4,7 77:18,20 78:2,4 100:23 104:10,16 114:21 115:19 five 7:9 70:13 five-minute 67:10 123:22 fig 112:10 fixture 38:21 fixtures 41:3 flesh 29:11 door 2:25 3:4,15 11:2,4 focuses 71:1 folder 117:17 folks 20:1 58:1 follow 102:8 following 65:5 follows 6:9 food -type 70:20 force 7:21 forget 44:23 109:18 form 59:11 77:15 Forma 87:13 formats 84:25 forward 79:14 forwarded 125:15 foundation 23:25 four 7:9 72:7 fourth 86:13 Frehohn 38:3 Friday 99:5,9 Mendly 45:16 from 9:4 10:10 11:6 11:9,12,14,16 . 12:2513J16,19,22 14:4 16:11 28:24 33:18 34:136:1,19 37:17 40:12 41:13 41:2144:16 45:17 48:21 49:7 52:17 57:12 58:9 60:4,18 61:5,6,6 62:7,7,7,7 64:2,19 69:15 70:23 72:4 73:23 77:10 81:7 83:13 84:7 85:17 86:9 87:11 90:6,13 91:24 92:18 93:8 94:15 97:5 99:6 100:16 102:2,16 107:2 108:1,6 111:17 114:22 115:2 119:16,18,20 122:10 124:13,16 front 84:2 full 84:20 fully 17:22 118:9 functions 43:22 funded 18:7 funds 16:5,6,11,12 16:12,13,13 87:4 further 55:21 125:7 future 25:16 39:13 124:3 F&E 39:2 F-a-u-l-a-n-d 72:21 G 117:9,10 gap 39:15 Garfalo 56:3 gave 75:22103:25 108:21,22 109:4,11 109:24,25110:4,7 111:16 120:19 general 14:6 18:14 25:14 68:20 Generally 28:13 generated 58:8 generating 96:14 getting 88:13 give 8:14 26:1,4 49:4 55:10,13 81:25 112:12 118:6 given 11:13 56:10,11 56:13 115:18 117:25 118:13 gives 102:9 giving 9:4 71:9 go 11:2,4,14 12:15 12:20 24:14 67:1 67:13 68:18,24 69:7 76:3,5,9 79:14 82:17 84:4 88:25 93:9 101:21 110:8 113:19 119:2 124:1 125:11 goes 19:25 going 9:12 32:1,11 32:15 65:12 66:20 69:5 84:5 85:15,23 89:15 90:4,22 91:22103:22,23 104:2 106:15 113:9 116:17 118:6125:2 126:11 gone 43:16 49:18 good 32:3 33:7 41:3 47:20 59:6 67:9 88:8 89:20122:2,3 gotten 40:1 governing 63:14 Government 16:11 24:17 Governor 14:15 graduate 12:24 graduated 12:25 Granite 14:24 Grant 16:12 Gray 44:17 45:12 46:7 64:7,18 66:6 77:23 78:23 79:3 79:12 80:3 Great 14:22 Greenberg 30:24 31:4 grounds 55:12 guess 66:23 guidelines 21:18 Gus 64:18 68:24 84:7 102:16 104:4 117:14 gustavo 1:19 2:19 6:5,15 9:14 guy 34:1 guys 31:8 half 16:23 22:5 hand 82:22112:5 handle 119:23 Hang 18:9 81:25 93:14 happened 53:10 77:17,20 79:25. happens 21:1 hard 122:4 hats 21:2 having 6:7 70:22 73:22 121:3 124:9 HB 117:16 head 8:120:13 23:7 25:17 42:15 hear 47:3 55:23 69:14 heard 28:16,20,25 34:15 35:16 38:3,4 38:6 41:18,21,23 49:24 63:22118:7 hearing 79:6 99:6- held 118:9126:12 help 80:18 120:10,13 120:15,16 her 20:10 70:14 71:6 71:14 72:12 93:11 125:13 Herb 72:16 hereto 9:18 83:6 84:1185:20 90:9 91:3 92:3100:20 102:20104:7 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 131 106:21 113:15 116:23 high 12:21,22 13:1,3 19:22 higher 25:20 highest 24:16,17 high -end 14:23 him 10:5 22:12 24:24 43:20 45:2147:15 49:4 66:8 72:23 95:7 96:5 97:15,18 97:23 103:4 108:23 109:24,24 109:25 110:4,7 122:1 himself 121:18 hired 34:6,7,20,22 34:24,25 35:6,8,10 35:11,20,22,24 38:9,16,20 history 14:7 hit 14:25 Hold 29:10 Holly 35:16,18 36:1 36:19 Hollywood 12:25 - Holtz 16:1817:5 home 6:1716:12 hope 85-25' hour 46:20 hours 122:5 housing 13:11 14:9 14:12,16,24 15:19 15:25 19:8,19 43:24 44:2,5 50:3 51:19 69:18,22 75:6 114:14 115:22 Howard 25:18 57:13 122:12 Hughes 45:2,25 46:5 46:19,21 47:3,14 47:19 48:21,23 49:11 77:10 88:18 95:23 98:21 110:3 111:9 116:20 hub-uhs 8:2 huntington 1:5,9 2:5 2:9 6:19 7:18 11:17 12:4,10,11 15:4;7,9,10,11,13 15:21 17:6,6,9,12 17:14,15 18:4,7,18 18:23 19:3,6 20:15 20:19 21:22,25 22:2 23:10 28:2 29:17 31:3 33:9 35:4,13,23 36:10 36:13 37:22,24 38:14,15 40:24 41:19 42:16 43:2,6 43:12,25 44:8 45:10.20 46:24 50:6 51:160:20 61:15 68:6 69:3 70:2.6 71:7 72:12 79:8 81:22 83:10 83:10 84:17 85:11 85:11 86:5 89:4 94:2 95:14,20,24 98:1 114:12,14 115:23 116:19 117:19 118:11 119:19 123:8,17 124:5 hypothetical 29:11 29:19 ICSC 121:19 identification 9:13 9:17 82:14 83:5 84:6,10 85:16,19 90:5,8,23 91:2,23 92:2 100:15,19 102:15,19 104:3,6 106:16,20 113:10 113:14 116:5,18,22 identifies 104:17 illustrate 48:10 immediate 19:11,13 impact 39:10 52:7,8 59:9 65:11 79:24 impasse 49:20 implement 48:16 124:8 implemented 28:9 implementing 15:25 20:18 implications 103:5 importance 21:14 improper 29:10 inappropriate 108:15 110:17 INC 1:5 2:5 inch 10:22 include 51:6,11,15 71:19 included 61:15 63:3 73:6 88:5-,17,19 97:24 includes 52:5 89:17 including 70:20 81:6 inclusion 115:11 inclusive 1:12 2:12 39:14 Incomplete 29:19 incorporated 112:7 increment 16:7,10 independent 34:9 index 4:1 71:23,25 72:2 indicate 49:25 67:21 105:10 indicated 22:14 26:10 37:1,18 47:5 49:13 74:25 86:4 92:16 119:24 indicating 10:21 119:21 Indirectly 40:11 individual 36:25 individually 36:7 individuals 75:11 information 5:3 37:5 39:4,6 41:5 52:8 86:5,6 113:22 116:15 118:6 informational 123:6 informed 118:8 initial 30:10 113:21 initially 30:20 inquiry 76:18 inside 88:9 insinuate 108:14 110:17 insofar 75:10 instant 54:9 instead 109:24 instructed 5:6 51:10 51:15 instructions 26:1,5 49:4 71:9 instructs 76:2 intended 66:18 intending 37:7 intent 93:6 interest 4:11 60:18 61:9,20 65:1,3 69:16 73:24 75:4,7 83:9,12 84:24 85:1 88:1 89:18,21 interested 23:23 24:8 47:17 70:20,21 interesting 94:25 Interests 98:7 interface 25:15 interfere 81:4 interpose 54:12 interpret 29:25 63:25 96:1-113:6 interpretation 107:22111:7 interpreted 100:5 interum 16:20 intimately 81:13 involve 25:7 involved 23:15 32:18 32:20 34:10 40:10 40:12 43:9 46:23 52:15 59:7,24 60:10 61:2 75:4,8 80:10,15 114:11,13 115:23 122:20 123:21 involvement 43:4 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER issue 55:8,9 59:8,12 59:21 72:11 81:16 issues 18:12,12 25:6 55:6 66:17 68:25 69:5 75:7 78:5 85:10 item 32:4 54:21 55:1 93:15,23 103:19 105:9 113:16 items 10:16,18 54:20 55:1 92:16,20 95:13 101:9 James 45:2,25 46:5 46:19,21 47:3 58:16 70:10,17 71:2 72:10,12 93:10 95:23 114:22 116:20 Jane 58:16,17 70:10 70:17 71:2 72:10 72:12 93:10 114:22 Jane's 72:19 Jayna 68:12 Jerry 14:15 jeweler 120:5,17 Jim 16:23 19:2 20:5 34:1 122:11 job 29:25 30:3 124:7 124:8 Joe 18:22,25 join 15:7 Joyce 16:20 18:24,25 19:1 judgment 21:15,16 j my 1:20 2:23 6:1 15:14 17:24 18:3,7 50:19 54:3,16 57:18 66:12 June 4:22 15:8,13 42:5,13 57:12,23 62:15,22 88:10 99:10,10,13,15 112:8 116:19 118:23 just 22:12 31:23 32:16 41:6 45:16 48:23 55:8 56:18 73:3 86:11 88:4 107:13 112:12 117:25 119:4 123:23 kane 3:9 34:1 40:15 56:2 60:23 91:12 91:13,20 102:17 103:2,6106:4,12 Kane's 125:15 keep 111:17 key 23:12 Keyser 34:2,4 38:12 kind 9:3 24:7 38:16 kinds 69:16 knew 74:23 80:10,14 124:24 know 25:11 26:15 28:23,24 29:22 30:9,13,14,17,19 30:20 34:24 35:10 35:22 37:25 38:4 40:19,20 42:2 43:16,21 47:24 48:2,13 49:16,21 52:18,24 54:24 56:14,16,18 57:20 58:9,12,18 59:2,4 59:2163:5,7 65:7 65:18 66:24 67:22 72:16 74:1 75:15 76:24 78:1 79:2 80:14 81:24 84:19 85:3 88:12,15 92:24 94:13 96:3 102:7 109:5 114:10121:5,19 122:6 123:9,13 125:1 knowing 45:9 knowledge 31:2 51:10 77:9 79:1 K-r-e-e-k 16:22 L 2:24 3:3,3 La 14:11 lady 19:1 Lamb 20:5 121:24 122:10,11 land 29:7,7,9,14,16 landlord 49:2119:25 120:22 landlord/tenant 73:25 74:23 landscaping 70:24 language 64:2 large 45:23 last 7:10 38:24 46:18 58:2 72:21 104:15 114:25 later 47:15 83:21 95:2 latest 88:12 law 2:23 7:22 25:9 25:10 32:24 74:18 Lawrence 44:24 laws 102:7 lawsuit 54:6,9 59:9 76:21,24,25 78:8 78:15,17 81:4 85:1 lawsuits 77,15 leadership 14:5 Page 132 lease 47:5,6,7,9,25 48:11,12,15 61:19 62:24 63:3,5,6,9,21 64:3 66:25 75:1 84:23 85:2 119:21 124:15 leaseholder 63:16 leaseholders 60:19 61:14 leases 65:10,17,19,22 65:24,24 66:3,13 84:16,18,19,20,21 85:4 least 23:20 113:21 leave 32:9 63:24 109:23 left 42:2,3 legal 10:5 29:12,19 40:15,16 46:22 60:22 63:23 75:9 103:3,4 124:19 legalities 29:24 less 10:22 let 9:21 11:1135:5 57:7 60:11 64:17 84:4 89.20 100:23 104:10 108:24 117:1 letter 4:12,13,14,15 4:16,17,18,19,20 4:22 61:20 64:6,9 64:14,19,23 65:7 65:13 73:10,14,14 84:6 85:16 86:4,9 89:25 90:6,23 91:24 93:11,15 96:12 99:24,25 100:15 101:10 102:15 103:2,7 104:3,16 105:1,4 105:15,18,20 106:17,23 108:1,6 108:12,14,14,25 109:1,7,13,15 110:3 111:749,12 111:23 113:6 116:18 118:1,1,3,5 118:11,14,15,18 125:16 letterhead 21:23 22:1,2 86:1 letters 21:25 88:14 88:14,14 91:11 102:2 108:18,19 110:15 let's 9:11 12:15 18:14 67:13 76:3,9 82:17 85:9 88:8 95:8,15 99:16 100:13 101:18,21 102:13 123:22 124:1 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00. BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER level 25:20= Liability 1:9,10,11-- 2:9,10,11 lieu 126:2 lifetime 13:15, light 108:19 like 17:3 31:18 69:3 71:22 72:7 76:14 86:8 101:16 122:5 likely 22:7 23:21 Limited 1:9,10,11 2:9,10,11 limits 102:9,11 Linda 122:11 124:25 LINE 5:7 list 31:16,18,19,19- 31:20,23 44:19 67:23 71:18 listed 68:9,9 litigation 77:6 81:8 little 10:22 29:11 58:20 107:1 117:6- LLC 83:1186:6- LLP 3:14 located 2:24 locations 120:10< log 31:11,12 long 46:18 74:1 99:15 long-term 60:19 61:14,19 63:5,9,16 look 9:2131:6 53:1,2 57:4,5,7,25 58:6 60:9 64:8,15 67:17 67:23 71:2173:8 82:3 85:22 88:4,8 95:15 99:16,20 100:13 102:13 105:7106:18 114:4116:3 looking 12:18 58:9 81:20 82:21 looks 31:18 71:22' 72:3,7,8 86:8 101:16 Los 2:25 3:5,11,16, 6:2 35:2. lot 70:23, lower 25:2W Luann 16:1917:-8 luncheon 125:3-- Lynn 38:6=-'= - . 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42:23 43:1,4,11,16 115:21 Member 76:17 members 31:15,25 62:21 69:24 70:2 memo 4:21 57:12 113:17 115:13 memos 43:10 46:16 men 52:16 mentioned 16:15 73:3 Mervyn's 61:21,22 62:1 met 44:10,16 45:1,4 45:25 might 27:4,5 30:10 33:12 39:12,15 mind 21:16 Minimal 43:8 minus 56:3 minute 14:13 71:13 Minutes 53:2 67:25 68:4 mischaracterizes 46:9 68:2 75:21 78:7 96:13106:8 108:11,11 110:14 111:10 misheard 98:15 mislead 80:20 misleading 80:20 97:16111:11 Miss 93:10 missing 12:18,19 misstatement 101:6 misstates 106:7 mistake 113:25 moment 113:19 Money 21:13 monitor 77:6 Monte 14:10 Montgomery 61:6 61:12 62:8 89:12 118:19 124:10 month 28:7 months 24:25 38:24 42:3 month -to -month 66:21 more 13:25 22:5 30:15 41:21 81:16 91:18 101:16 morgan 3:14 85:17 mortgage 14:22 most 22:15 65:24 69:1 mostly 18:1120:6 move 67:6 85:9 moved 13:9 120:16 Mt 35:16,18 36:1,19 much 25:7 49:1 Murray 34:140:15 56:2 60:22 91:12 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 133 102:17 103:2 must 102:8 Mutual 51:21 myself 125:16 Naffah 20:5 name 6:13 16:21 36:20 38:4,25 44:23,25 58:13,16 64:16 67:24 68:9,9 72:21 109:18 117:25 named 45:1 75:11 119:16 names 44:18 83:25 120:3,4,19 narrowly 113:6 nature 22:7 93:7 96:20 necessary 40:3 66:10 66:12 need 21:9,10,12,17 21:19 22:3 39:10 88:15 101:25 113:19°115:19- needed 39:22 71:4,6 needs 21:16 39:21 negotiate 49:12 negotiating 40:13 negotiations 40:10 Neighbor 14:13 Neighborhood 14:13 never 28:20,25 120:16 new 88:16 107:22 123:9 next 30:11 78:17 117:20 124:3 nice 107:12 109:16 night 52:22 Noble 61:17,18,25 nods 8:1 None 5:4 121:15 non -elected 49:25 normal 25:4 north 12:25 14:24 note 88:9 nothing 55:3 113:25 Notice 4:10 9:13 notify 125:20 not -elected 24:17 Novak 39:3 41:4 November 52:21 53:14 number 6:16,20,24 9:8 43:21 44:12 84:19 numbered 30:13 numerous 13:14 N-a-f-f-a-h 20:5 oath 7:20 object 47:18 55:22 56:17 114:1 objected 55:12 objection 23:25 24:14 27:14 29:18 46:9 47:10 48:6 50:21 54:12,22 55:19 58:11 59:11 68:2 75:9,21 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DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER page 4:2,8 5:7 53:1 58:2,6 86:13 108:14 114:25 pages 31:11 33:1 72:4,7 86:19,21 101:5,12,16,20 103:23 107:10,10 108:2,13 109:15 110:15,16 paid 17:24 31:4 86:23 87:1,4,6 paragraph 104:16 Pardon 67:2 Park 7:15 15:2,5 parking 70:23,23,25 part 16:23 31:22 32:11,22 35:9 37:1 39:16 60:24 86:22 87:3 88:2,2 89:2 89:16 122:6 123:13,18 participant 99:8 participate 57:2 60:24 participation 40:23 63:15 88:1 particular 18:17 26:19 33:15 34:13 40:1,7 68:25 69:4 70:15 92:20 94:9 100:4 103:18 108:20,21 114:20 116:10 118:10 120:16,20 121:15 particulars 27:3 parties 60:3 61:2 82:8 party 125:3,3 passed 44:20 past 27:21,22 pay 18:2 21:16 penalty 8:5 125:18 pending 77:11 79:16 79:21 people 15:24 16:16 16:16,17 20:2,7,7 34:2 39:5 43:22 44:18 45:4 80:11 85:25 percent68:8 perfect 26:20 perform 60:5 performed 18:3 Perhaps 113:25 period 109:15 110:12 111:24 126:1 perjury 8:5 125:18 permit 26:23 permits 25:14 26:13 person 16:24 36:19 49:25 77:4 91:19 115:23 126:16 personally 108:22 personnel 49:19 persons 19:22 20:4 37:17 44:11 73:18 114:11,13 perspective 52:17 pertain 12:4 pertained 52:12 115:10 pertaining 33:9 36:9 54:21 55:1 71:7 72:11 pertains 117:18 Petition 77:17 phone 6:16,20 66:3,4 73:23 80:16 120:8 phonetic 56:4 Pickel 36:21,22,24 37:3 piece 60:6 pier 26:22,24 Pierce 13:6,6 place 40:24 75:19, plaintiff 1:7 2:7,20 3:2 6:7 Plaintiff's 4:9 9:16 83:4 84:9 85:18 90:7 91:1 92:1 100:18 102:18 104:5 106:19 113:13 116:21 plan 18:14 25:14 27:12,24 30:6,12 30:2152:1157:15* 67:7 70:19,20 73:5 73:7 81:11 93:21 93:25 94:5,10,13 94:16,18 95:12 96:1,10 97:4,9,11 97:15,24,25 108:22 109:25 115:7,17 planner 72:17 planning 11:9,12,15 11:17,22 12:6 13:9 13:11 18:12,13 20:21 25:2,5,9,12 25:17,23 26:2,4,8 26:10,12,18 28:19 28:19 30:4,15 51:9 52:3,1158:22 62:21 68:21,21,22 69:1,14,20 70:6 71:19,24,25,25 72:5,7,17 79:17,21 81:11,16 82:5,9 85:14 87:8,9 92:17 92:19 93:4,9 94:15 97:11 115:6 116:9 116:11,12 plans 25:13,16 30:17 45:18,22,24 48:15 Page 134 52:3,9 67:7 95:21 96:3 98:5 114:16 115:4,9 120:18 please 6:14,16,22,24 8:1,14,25 13:5 14:7 54:7 57:8 59:18 60:12 64:8 67:17 71:21 73:9 84:4 88:5 98:12 104:19 112:5 plus 13:14 point 62:3 65:24 66:11,12 97:4 124:11 police 41:15 52:6 policy 21:18 political 21:15 Poly 13:8,16 Pomona 13:8,17 posed 76:4 108:19 position 42:14 50:3 51:18 69:18,22 positions 16:24 possession 10:17,19 possibility 124:9 possibly 109:4 post 13:3 potential 39:15 63:13 power 119:6,8,11,12 powers 41:15 49:8 preparation 22:16 60:25 122:20 prepare 10:2 25:16 60:21 64:21 89:6 92:10 117:4 prepared 10:4 31:24 31:25 33:5 60:22 64:15 89:7 91:5 101:1 121:11 preparing 31:14 82:10 present 15:13 33:18 33:21 presented 115:18 122:24 Preservation 14:13 pretty 25:7 prevent 9:4 previous 59:19 64:23 76:6 78:12 98:13 105:25 110:24 111:20 118:8 previously 31:7 52:25 57:5 81:21 principal 38:1,2 principally 40:12 prior 17:23 18:3,7 57:14 68:22 74:1 99:5,13,14,15 100:3 private 14:3,23 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.001- gU NGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER. privilege 55:12,20 91:15- privileged 31:11,12- privy 37:3,16, Pro 87:13 probably 7:9 22:7 36:5 42:20 46:20 66:15 95:13 114:9 problem 82:17 procedure 41:9 proceed 9:2 39:7 41:6 proceeding 125:24 process 11:14 25:14 39:25 52:15 63:10 97:1198:4,6 produce 96:23 produced 31:19 32:19,21,22113:24 113:25 production 113:17 114:1 Professional 2:21 progress 77:11 project 15:6 16:1,2,4 18:21 26:19 35:4 36:13,16 39:23 43:6 68:19 69:12 80:10 81:18,19,22. 82:6,7 113:23 116:10,15 118:10 projects 15:25 16:13 28:7,8 82:8 project -specific 69:16 promises 53:14,16 promoting 122:17 properly 102:5 115:18 PROPERTIES 1:10- 2:10 property 16:9,10 27:4,5 29:14 38:22 41:149:3 52:18,20 53:12 60:6,19 118:1 proponent 63:13= proponents 90:31 proposal 34:13 39:11 51:16 60A,4,19 62:20.63:17 65:2,4' 83:23,86:71*10,1Z 86:14,16 87:10,2Z_ 88:5,18 89:2,4,17, 89:22 97:10,23 98:20110:1,7 118:3,3,22 proposals 51:11 60:7 62:4,6 65:12 87:24 87:25 88:3 89:9 98:7,10 109:10 118:24 propose 125:9,12 proprietary 113:21 protected 32:23 provide 34:9 46:22 65:17,18,21,23 66:2 71:5,6 77:14 92:13,2193:6,21 94:4 96:14 97:2,15 97:22 98:9,25 99:19 102:9 103:22,24 109:3,4 109:8 111:3 112:21 113:2 115:19,24 121:14 125:22 provided 37:5 39:4,6 41:4 51:25 52:1 87:17 89:25 92:18 93:5 96:12 97:23 99:3,3 101:4,8,20 103:13 107:5,25 108:3,4,5 109:6 111:4 112:2 115:6 120:15 124:15,15 providing 72:1196:9 96:10 100:6 103:7 106:5 provisions 28:12. 29:6 63:21,23 Ps61`-A198:6 public 14:3 52:5 56:11,13,15 79:6 99:6 104:17,18 122:24 Puente 14:11 pull 88:23 pulled 81:10103:25 purchasing 53:12 Pardue 16:25 17:1 purpose 14:218:17 34:8 37:19118:5 purposes 38:12 123:6126:2 pursuant 9:25 pursue 79:8 purview 85:13 87:8 put 10:11,12 32:5,15 71:23 97:18 putting 31:15 p.m 126:19 qualifies 63:10,12,13 63:16 question 8:18,24,24 24:2,6 30:15 35:9 35:9 39:24 44:4,5 47:12,23 54:7,10 54:11 59:16,18,19 60:13 65:9 68:20 71:1 76:1,4,9 77:1 78:10,11,12 79:19 80:23 93:5,16,19 94:12,25 95:3,9 96:17,18,20,21 97:17,19 98:11,12 98:13,16,17 102:22 103:20105:19,23 105:25 106:10 108:17,24110:21 110:22,23,24 111:14,15,19,20,22 112:24 126:10 questioning 73:23 questions 7:25 8:19 22:15 47:15 55:21 55:23 70:18 85:10_ 92:15 93:18 101:21,23108:19 125:7,8 quite 16:18 R 3:9 61:1198:6 RAA 54:24 55:3 Rabe 34:1 Ray 12:12 20:22,23 - 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Page 135 redrafting 30:12 refer 94:1 123:3 reference 95:4 referenced 88:20 referring 94:9 95:20 95:24 refers 53:2 93:25 94:1,2 reflect 46:16 refresh 108:2 regarding 22:23 55:6 55:17 70:2,6,10,18 71:2 72:10,23 73:1 80:3 83:9 95:19,23 96:11 103:14 106:12 112:15 Registered 2:21 relate 121:15 related 10:16,18 12:9 17:6,8,11 18:23 19:2,5 55:13 69:25 87:14 92:16 92:20 93:495:13 105:3,16 relating 18:18 59:7 72:14 82:8 95:20 95:24105:2,5 - 113:22. 4. relation 18:14 relationship 18:15 25:1,4 35:3 36:7 45:8,13 121:3 relative 20:15 21:18 27:24 40:6 42:23 43:1,11 45:20 59:9 64:2 73:3 85:10 103:6 115:3,25 120:22121:3 124:5 Relax 96:5 relevance 17:15 relevancy 73:22 relevant 59:12 65:25 73:4 relieved 125:10,13 relocate 67:6 rely 26:8 remain 50:5 remaining 84:16 remains 94:12 remember 7:10,14 31:17 44:18,25 46:3,3 52:14,24 53:19 79:23 93:12 97:10 98:4101:13 114:20120:1,3,4,4 remind 32:16 remove 10:10 repercussions 21:14 21:15 report 20:3,8 23:4 49:1166:7. reported 49:17 66:5 reporter 2:21,22 6:8 9:10,12,18 27:16 59:20 67:14 76:7 78:13 82:13 83:6 84:5,11 85:15,20 90:5,9.22 91:3,22 92:3 98:14 100:14 100:20 102:14,20 104:3,7 106:1,16 106:21 110:25 111:21 113:10,15 116:4,17,23 125:9 125:12 reposition 48:13,18 48:19 representations 53:13 representatives 41:14 44:11 representing 74:18 99:1 represents 38:9 request 9:15 22:6 60:1,3,7,17,18 65:1 65:1,4,10 76:24 83:22 87:25 88:25 90:13 94:19 97:9 100:3 103:19 104:19 105:7,12 108:13 123:6 125:24 requested 5:3 45:22 59:20 65:6 66:15 74:2 76:7,19 78:13 92:14 97:5 98:14 101:9 105:14 106:1 109:10,22 110:6.25 111:4,17 111:18,21 112:22 requesting 45:17 88:14 102:3 103:20 requests 105:22 109:15 require 23:13 required 7:25 26:22 requires 26:19 requiring 45:17 resolution 56:6,22 resolve 78:5 respect 27:12 28:18' 29:5 40:13 43:18 66:17 125:13 respond 7:25 8:18 48:21 52:11 62:1 - 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DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 79:11,16,20 87:3 94:17 95:25 105:13,13 108:18 109:14 saw 57:10,14 73:22 Saybrook 34:15,24 34:25 35:3,10 37:17 38:2 Saylor 2:20 says 64:18 68:6 77:25 87:22 105:18 108:13 117:20 scheduled 119:4 school 12:21,2213:1 13:3,13,22 Scott 44:21,22,22 45:20 102:17 search 103:21 121:12,17 seashells 120:6 second 12:16 80:4,7 82:18 93:14 95:6 114:21 secretary 17:3 43:15 sectors 14:3 Sedway 38:6,12 see 24:24 32:4 43:10 52:6 64:14,17 67:17 69:15,15 73:23 81:23 84:4 86:8 90:2 95:8 104:15 107:25 108:6 121:2 seeing 31:17 seek 93:3 94:15 seem 88:13 seems 67:21 seen 24:21 31:10,13 31:14 57:6 67:19 90:11 92:5 123:1,2 See's 61:18,25 select 89:24 99:7 119:6 selected 40:2 selection 88:6,20 112:1 sells 120:6 seminars 13:15 send 21:25 31:15 61:13 108:8 109:12 sending 118:5 senior 72:17 sense 8:24 14:5 48:4 sent 61:2,11,12,12,20 64:23 73:12 76:23 76:25 77:1 99:16 106:23 113:7 120:18 sentence 104:15 sentences 104:16,20 separate 12:12,13 SEQA 85:10,12 series 39:18,20 server117:12,13 services 39:3 120:12 session 10:16,18 32:22 46:8,12 52:23 53:3 54:15 55:4,5,6,13,22 56:7 56:11,13,15,23 68:21,22 103:14 sessions 33:7,19,22 53:21,24 68:19 69:7,8 103:15 several 44:12 83:24 84:25 sheet 112:7 sheets 88:10 shipow 3:14 24:3 27:14 29:12,18 32:8,11,14 46:9 47:10,13,16,17 48:1,6 50:21 54:22 58:11 59:14 68:2 78:7 85:5,24,25 94:6,17 96:15 99:20 101:7 108:10 109:14,16 110:13 111:10 112:12 113:19 120:23 125:8,16,20 126:4,7,16 shopping 37:24 115:24 120:18,20 123:11,15,17 short 16:17 Shorthand 2:216:8 show 93:11 123:7 shut 15:1 side 40:13 sign 8:5 21:22 23:13 125:18 signature 23:14 64:12 125:14,21 signed 30:24 64:7 90:24 125:25 significant 13:4 21:14 signings 67:24 silver 12:12 20:22,23 22:23,25 23:1,3,4,8 23:23 24:8,20,21 43:6,15 56:3 57:12 115:21 Silver's 23:9 43:14 43:23 44:7 similar 118:16,18 since 14:7 15:13,20 16:15 63:9 118:7 121:18 125:2 sir 94:12 sit 50:19 Page 136 situation 48:25 120:22 situations 27:9 six 70:13 size 10:7 slash 117:14,20 sold 14:22 some 8:23 9:2,3 18:10 20:10 32:23 62:3 69:4 70:18 87:13 93:20 94:4 95:11 97:4 109:6 109:12 113:20,21 115:24 119:20,20 120:14,17 126:4 somebody 48:9 76:14 91:17 120:6 something 13:25 67:5 79:23 81:21 87:23 97:22 119:24122:5 Sometime 99:14 sometimes 26:12 27:7,8 44:19 somewhere 120:10 soon 85:24- sorry 16:25 44:3 68:3 74:16 82:25 114:18 118:13 sort 21:15 sorts 34:13 sought 78:1 Sounds 57:19 source 16:6 South 3:10 Southern 61:23,24 speak 22:9,23,25 36:147:3 106:5 122:1 speaker 80:16 speaking 72:10 106:4 speaks 65:7 special 40:16 63:20 103:3 specific 13:25 27:24 30:6,17,20 57:15 71:9 73:5,6 81:11 91:18 93:21,25 94:5,10,13,16,18 95:11 96:1,10 97:4 97:9,11,15,24,25 98:4 108:22 109:25 114:16 115:3,7,9,17 specifically 103:19 105:1 108:13 109:15 110:15 specificity 105:13 speculate 47:14 speculation 47:10,18 58:11 31LIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00-` BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER spell 6:1316:21 spent 110:10 - spoke 36:19106:12 spoken 70:1,5,9,9,14 72:23 73:1- sponsor 82:6 sponsored 16:13 82:4 SP-12 51:22 86:17 86:19,22,23 87:12 SP-13 51:22 87:3,4 staff 15:24 16:15 18:14 31:15,25 43:21,22,23 44:7 62:21 121:10 stand 122:4 start 9:11 started 15:3,20 27:12 starting 12:21 starts 86:13 state 1:1 2:1,22 6:13 14:17 25:9,10' 32:23 stated 45:5,6 statement 4:1141:18 60:17 65:1,3 73:20 83:9,12,23 84:24 85:189:17,2198:7 Statements 61:9 State/City 14:20 stating 80:16 status 80:7115:25 stay 56:14 step 124:3 step-by-step 39:25 Steve 16:18 17:5 still 12:18 94:12 - stipulate 126:14 stopped 88:15 store 61:16 Street 3:10,15 6:19- strengths 34:11,12 strike 116:5 structure 70:25 studies 38:11- study 17:13 68:19� subject. 55:10,11;11 55:13 76AZ`t: = - 113:17126:14. . submit 26:11;12,17 51:7 60:3 65:12 119:1 submits 51:11 submittal 30JI submitted 25:13 __30:6 39:1152:3 57:15 63:17 81:11: 83:10,22,25 84:23 84:25 86:6,22 87:13,22 88:7,18- 89:2,11,13 90:3 97:10,23 98:21 109:11 110:1 113:23 114:16 115:4,10123:5,7 Subpoena 9:15,24,25 10:3 12:3 121:11 subpoenaed 121:18• subsequent 8:11 78:17 111:12 substance 101:18 suitable 62:11 Suite 3:10 sum 107:4 SUPERIOR 1:12:1 supermarket 70:21- supervise 25:23 supervisor 19:11,14 73:15 supervisors 72:19 supplied 11:11 Suracci 122:11 124:25 sure 11:2217:22 32:20 35:5,12 47:17 63:12 67:4 67:1171:20 92:18 99:23 112:4118:9 118:25122:12 sworn 6:7 S-a-y-b-r-o-o-k 34:16 S-e-d 38:6- take 9:21,22 21:7 28:2131:6 39:12 39:19 53:157:4,5 57:25 60:9,12 64:8 67:9,17 68:3 70:22 70:23 71:2173:8-- 75:19 85:22 88:4,8 95:15 99:16 100:13 102:11 112:17114:4- 116:3 117:2 123:22 taken 2:19-7:1,11,16 7:20 67:12 82:19 123:25=. . takes 80:17 talk 36:6,18 76:11 talked 23:172:12 talking 48:4 59:22 76:9 81:19,23,24 82:1,2 93:15 114:24 talks 105:8 tall 109:18 tax 16:7,9,10,10 taxes 16:8 telefax 6:24 telephone 80:15 82:16 119:20 tell 7:2210:20 32:25 33:2,2149:4 58:13 58:23 65:6,21 66:18 75:18 78:4 79:25 80:3 81:2 88:4 91:13,17 93:14 96:23 100:8 105:15,19117:6 temporary 79:17,22 80:1 tenancies 66:21 tenant 50:25 66:17 123:9 tenants 50:20 64:22 66:19 84:16 119:19,21 120:3 123:15,20 tepper 3:9 6:1810:5 11:21,24 23:25 24:14 28:18,23` 29:10,22 31:15 32:2 46:1154:7,11 54:17 55:10,19,23 56:1,10,16,19,24 59:11,17 67:1,3 71:5,11,15 75:9,15 75:2176:3 80:19 80:25 91:14,19 93:16 94:8,18,21 94:24 95:3,8 96:5 ' - 96:13,18 97:16 98:15 101:6,16,19 101:21 104:22 106:7,17 107:8,11 107:13,16,19' 110:20111:5,15 112:16,18,23 113:12125:10,11 125:15126:10,13- 126:17 Tepper's 125:17,19 125:21 terminate 66:20,25- terminated 67:5 termination 119:22 terminology 28:25 terms 20:24 63:2,10' 100:5 116:14 testified 6:9 testifying 7:21 testimony 8:15 9:4 46:10 75:22 106:8.- 108:11110:14 111:11 Thank 9:711:159:8- 59:24 61:3 64:17' 68:18-82:12 88:8' 88:17,24 89:3 93:16 112:18 119:15 Thanks 112:12 their 11:18 25:8 37:10 39:7,7 41:6 43:22 44:18 45:10 48:15 49:1152:4 65:16 67:7 69:15 71:25 72:2 86:7 89:2118:19,20,20 119:21,25 120:22 themselves 119:25 120:11 thereabouts 99:17 thick 10:20,21 126:14 thing 87:3124:6 things 37:9 60:4 think 11:12 31:22 32:8 33:12 35:5;10 38:141:2,2142:3; 46:4 52:16,2158:1 61:18 67:9 68:3 71:13 72:17 74.3 75:23 78:2179:6 79:10 94:24 95:7 98:15 100:1116:9. 118:25 120:17 123:23 third 58:6 though 20:1168:9' . thought 18:25 - 101:22109:8: three 20:2,4,7 24:25" 28:10 33:12 61:5,9- 62:6 89:8119:1 120:2 . through 1:12 2:12' 30:18 32:183:22' 85:12 87:11 123:10,12 till 15:3101:25 time 7:10 9:22 20:13 22:5 54:2,3,14,15 57:10 60:12 62:25 65:24 66:1,11,12:: 75:25 95:6 98:9 102:9;11 110:5,10 110:12117:2 122:2,3.124:11 times 7:6,7 28:5 36:4 36:5 44:103233- 45:25 46:1,2 54:1 68:9 70:12,13,14> 70:15 74:2,244 title 15:5,16,1818:20• 19:8,16 44:2.97:25 today 8:11.9:3,5 50:18125:3 together 25:6 31:17 71:23 103:25 told 23:22 24:8 51:5 63:2,20 66:8,20,24 71:6 77:22 79:16 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 137 79:20 81:7 109:8 113:2,6 Tom 16:19 17:11 18:20 tomorrow 28:22 top 53:2107:1 topic 55:9 69:1 121:16 topics 68:25 total 107:4108:13 totally 66:10 towards 51:20 track 37:10 transactions 34:10 transcript 8:4,8,9 125:15,18,21,22,25 126:11 transfer 32:2 transferred 10:4 13:8 tried 105:12 truth 7:22 try 39:22 48:10 123:15 trying.41;,148:15 67:5 73:24i turn 71:1& turned 32:5- Twenty -First 3:15- twice 46:5 74:3'- two 13:12,14,22 16:19 21:2 28:10 31:11,15,25 33:1 35:1146:152:16 55:1,6 90:17 91:11 104:15 114:9 118:25 120:2 type 21:12 38:19 115:24 typed 57:20 58:8,9 61:1 types 16:8 34:14 37:9 Uh-huh 7:3,2410:23 62:17 74:8 102:23 104:12 117:21 uh-huhs 8:2 Ultimately 101:4 under 8:5 9:3 16:14 26:16 27:20,22 32:23 68:18101:9 125:13,18 understand 7:23 8:6 8:12,16,20,21,23 28:1139:10 48:17 48:25 59:8 69:13 74:16 96:20 97:13 97:19 98:6,17,20 understanding 29:6 29:24 30:10 34:11 45:9,10 undertake 34:14 36:13 60:8 undertakes 16:4 Unfortunately 92:9 unhappiness 119:21 University 13:10,20 unsigned 126:1 unsuccessfu195:7 until 14:18 urban 13:9 usable 126:1 USC 13:13,22 use 25:14 26:13,23 38:11,11 41:15 49:8 58:20 59:11 60:7 114:1 used 41:8 42:1 58:18 58:22 126:5 uses 73:5 using 29:15 vacancies 120:19 vacation 23:6 vague 8:24 Valuation 39:3 varies 29:23 39:21 variety 60:4 various 18:11 60:3 88:7 verbally 8:1 79:9,10 115:9 very 23:21 28:6 32:3 41:3 45:16,23 47:20 59:6 67:9 94:24 107:11 109:16 122:4 videos 45:18 videotape 122:23 123:1,5 vision 45:10 vs 1:8 2:8 wait 14:13 38:20,20 71:13 124:19,19 Wallach 119:16 want 11:2212:15,20 31:6 39:8 50:1 52:25 55:23 57:4 57:25 64:5 65:7,23 73:8,21 74:12 95:4 101:17,19 106:17 107:15,17 111:9 112:4,10 116:3 126:13,14 wanted 66:25 85:4 118:8 120:11 wants 24:11 29:7,14 29:15 Ward 61:6 62:8 89:12 Ward's 61:12 118:19 124:10 WAREHOUSE 1:5 2:5 wasn't 97:17 watch 77:6 way 17:5 50:4 52:12 58:13 60:4 72:8 78:6 83:20 86:22 88:9,12 89:10 102:4 107:1 108:1 110:6 123:3 weaknesses 34:12,12 wears 21:2 Wednesday 1:20 2:23 6:1 weeks 119:1 well 18:2 21:9 23:13 26:22 37:10 38:12 39:18 49:17,18 54:24 63:14 65:9 65:23 76:3 81:20 82:4 87:2193:19 93:24 94:22 95:2,8 went 13:6 14:12,17 14:21 15:2 22:12 22:14 64:14 93:3 118:15 weren't 32:18 110:2 West 3:15 Western 14:23 we'll 28:21 31:22 32:10 84:1 101:15 we're 26:21 49:2,2,2 82:9 123:23 We've 16:17 while 16:18 whitman 3:14 85:17 85:23 87:11 108:1 108:6 whole 14:2,4 39:10 39:18 54:11 Wilshire 2:24 3:4 wish 60:8 73:6 withheld 10:13 103:10,12-108:15 witness 3:8 5:6 6:6 6:19 27:17 28:25 .29:3,23 46:12 47:13 48:2,7 50:22 54:18 55:15 56:2 56:25 57:14 58:12 59:21 67:2,4,11 68:4 75:16,22,23 78:14 80:21 82:16 85:7 91:21 95:4,4 95:9 96:7,19 97:17 97:17,20 98:17,18 99:21 101:8,18 104:23 106:2 109:17 110:15,22 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 111:1,16,22 112:24 120:25 123:24 125:7 126:9 word 48:17 59:12 words 8:14 108:20 work 14:12,17 15:2 17:23,24 18:2,10 18:15,16 20:3,18 23:8 25:6 26:10,14 37:7 67:5 116:10 worked 7:15 15:12 17:5,8,11,13 18:6 18:2219:2,5 43:24 44:6 122:4 working 13:15 15:3 43:5 workings 24:9 works 20:6 43:15,18 43:19 52:5 116:11 writing 58:7 66:3 79:9 103:16. 115:14 125:20 written 21:18 105:4 wrote 73:10,1190:19 102:24 yeah 17:2,4 33:5 52:16 53:6 58:18 72:2,8 74:4 94:21 112:17 117:11 year 12:24 13:16,19 28:8,8 46:4 53:23 63:8 121:22 years 13:7 18:11 28:10,20 Yesterday 22:10 Zelefsky 25:18,20 57:13 73:1 122:12 Zelefsky's 11:21 zone 25:14 26:13,17 zoning 27:24 28:11 29:5,24 30:1 Zs 28:14,16,20 OOCCO63091:8 2:8 11:12 2:12 30:17 102:3 101:12 2:12 4:15,18 73:8,11 90:24 95:15 101:4 109:13 loth 100:1,2102:16 102:25 110:11 100 4:17 68:8 102 4-18 104 4:19 106 4:20 1130:18 64:6,8,10 64:18,21 65:14 84:1,4 95:15 11/15/99 53:8,18 113 4:21 11560 2:21 116 4:22 12 4:19 30:649,10 30:13,21 93:21 94:5 95:12,16 96:2 96:10 105:5,15 109:7,25 111:23 114:24 12th 99:21,24,25 100:4,6 1.01:10 103:8 104:4 108:12 109:1 110:10 111:8,23 12:36126:19 13 5:9 30:8,9 67:15 67:17 68:13,16 81:1182:1,3 14101:5,16 107:10 107:10108:2,13 109:15 110:15,16 122:5 - 14th 82:14 15 53:14 57:25 58:2 104:11 15th 101:25 16 4:20 84:18 99:13 106:17,24107:1,5 16th 99:10,15 112:8 17 4:17 5:8 9:9 18:7 54:3,16 17th 17:24 18:3 100:16 101:2 18 9:9 1850 3:10 19 14:2199:10 19th 62:15,22 196612:25 1971 13:18 197313:21 14:8,9 197514:11 197914:14 198014:16 198314:22 198614:22 198915:2 199314:19 199815:3,3,8,13 28:3 42:13 19" 33:16 44:14 52:2153:14,21,22 2 4:13,22 62:4 85:17 88:18 89:25 98:10 102:3 103•:17 107:25 108:6,14,25 Page 138 109:7 110:3 111:9 116:19,25 118:23 2nd 62:21 99:17,17 20 4:10 9:10,11,13 9:16,20 20th 68:6 20001:20 2:23 4:12 4:13,14,15,16,17 4:18,19,20,21,22 6:1,19 15:14 17:24 18:7 33:16 42:5,5 44:14 50:19 53:23 54:3,16 57:12,18 57:23 62:4,16,21 62:22 64:6 65:10 66:13 68:6,16 73:12 74:1,7 76:22 82:15 84:7 85:4,17 88:10,18 90:6,24 91:23 99:13 100:16 101:2,10 102:16,25 104:4,11 106:17,24 107:6,25 108:25 109:7,8 110:3,10,11 111:9 112:8 113:17 114:8 116:19 118:23 214:11 82:14,21,22 83:2,4,8 213 3:5,11,16 22 4:12 84:6,9,13,15 23 4:13 85:16,18 86:3 88:10 89:16 90:1 98:20 99:1,19 112:5,6 113:20 23s 112:4 24 4:12,14 84:7 85:4 90:5,7,11 91:8 25 4:15 28:20 90:23 91:1,8,25 113:16 261:20 2:23 4:16,21 6:1 66:12 91:23 92:1,8,11 93:22,23 94:5,9,19 97:2 99:18 100:5 113:17 114:8 26th 50:19 27 4:17 100:15,18,22 100:24101:1 28 4:18 102:15,18,22 102:24 28th 64:6 65:9 29 4:19 104:3,5,9,11 104:21 108:12 3 31:6,10,10,11 32:12 33:1 53:1 65:4 88:25 89:1,16 112:6 116:25 3-A 31:23 33:1 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 GUSTAVO A. DURAN, 07.26.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Page 139 3-8 31:23 32:13 98 42:20 71:18 99 42:21 3/28/00 64:1& 30 4:20106:16,19 107:4125:17 30th 2:25 3:4 30-day 125:25 30-year 47:6 48:12 48:15 63:6 74:25 314:21 113:11,13 114:4,5 115:13 31st 110:19 32 4:22 116:18,21 117:4 118:16,18 3435 2:24 3:4 374-152":23 375-5087 6:25 385.8000 3:5 4 4:14,16 89:12 90:6 90:16 91:23 - 5 57:12,18,23 89:3 5th 11:2,4 515 3:10 55 5:8 6 4:3 52:25 53:5 76:22 6th 73:1174:1 617-0480 3:11 633 3:15 7 57:4,5,6,10,20,22 58:2,24 59:2,9 7th 86:14 714 6:23,25 815:8,13 80 86:19,21 83 4:11 84 4:12' _ 85 4:13 - 8914:25= 896-25123:16.- 9 4:10 60:9,10,14,16 60:17,21,25 64:25 65:3 9:36 2:23 6:1 90 4:14 90010 3:5 900713:11,16 914:15 5:9 92 4:16 92648 6:20 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLIh� tON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 4 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 5 6 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE) OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 7 California Corporation ) 8 Plaintiff, ) CASE NO: OOCCO6309 9 vs. ) 10 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, a ) VOLUME I Delaware Limited Liability ) 11 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL ) PROPERTIES, a Delaware Limited ) 12 Liability Company; THE EZRALOW ) COMPANY, a Delaware Limited ) 13 Liability Company; and DOES 1 ) through 10, inclusive, ) 14 ) Defendants. ) 15 ) 16 17 18 DEPOSITION OF: 19 FRANK CODA 20 THURSDAY, JULY 27, 2000, 9:57 A.M. 21 22 23 24 25 1 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL- 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 3 LAW OFFICES OF TUCHMAN & ASSOCIATES 4 BY: LOREN CORN Attorney at Law 5 3435 Wilshire Boulevard, 30th Floor Los Angeles, California 90010 6 (213)385-8000. 7 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 8 LAW OFFICES OF 9 WHITMAN, BREED, ABBOTT& MORGAN, LLP BY: ALAN J. WATSON 10 Attorney at Law 633 West Fifth Street, 21st Floor 11 Los Angeles, California 90071-2040 (213) 896-2512 12 13 14 15 17 18 19 PVG 20 21 22 23 24 25 I 1 INDEX 2 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 3 Examination by: Page Mr. Cope 5 3 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 4 4 5 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE) 6 EXHIBITS OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 7 8 Plaintiffs Exhibit For Identification 33 - 9-page Notice of Taking Deposition 10 6 California Corporation, 34 - 1-page In Transmittal dtd 7/27/99 19 9 34-8 - 1-page Fax Transmittal dtd 7/27/99 20 7 Plaintiff, ) CASE NO: 35 - 1-page Fax Transmittal did 7/27/99 21 OOCCO6309 10 36 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 8/13/99 21 8 vs. 37 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 8/20/99 23 11 38. 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 825/99 29 39 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 92Z99 35 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, a ) VOLUME 1 12 40 - I -page Letter of Transmittal dtd 9/1/99 36 Delaware Limited Liability ) 41 - 1-page Conceptual Site Plan 41 10 Company; EZRALOW RE -TAIL L ) 13 42 - 1-page N Letter of a Conceptual Master Play 43 - 1-page Getter of Transmittal did 9/10/99 44 45 PROPERTIES, a Delaware Limited ) 14 44 - 16-page Fax Transmittal Letter dtd 9/16/99 47 11 Liability Company; THE EZRALOW ) Harris Letter to Agra -Hughes COMPANY, a Delaware Limited ) 15 45 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal did 1011M 46 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 10/13/9 48 54 12 Liability Company; and DOES 1 ) 16 47 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 10/13N9 55 throw 10, inclusive, through ) 48 - 1-page Fax Transmittal did 10/15N9 58 13 ) 17 49 - 1-page Fax Transmittal dtd 10/15/99 59 Defendants. ) __ _ 50. 1-page Letter of Transmittal did 10/18/99 60 14 18 51- 3-page Fax Transmittal did 10/18/99 62 15 52 - 1-page Cover to Specific Flan Number 13 69 19 53 - 1-page Artistic Rendering 69 16 54 - 3-page Fax Transmittal dtd 10/18/99 71 17 20 55 - 1-page Fax Transmittal dtd 10/15/99 73 18 56 - 3-page Fax Transmittal dtd 10/18/99 74 19 21 57 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 1021/99 75 58 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 1021/99 76 20 The deposition of FRANK CODA, taken on behalf of 22 59 - 5-page Facsimile Transmission did 1027/99 77 21 the Plaintiff, before Jo Anne Tsutsui, Certified Shorthand 60 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 102L/99 82 22 Reporter 9038 for the State of California, commencing at 23 61. 4-page Memorandum dtd 1027/99 82 62- Transmission dtd d 10�/99 884 23 9:57 a.m., Thursday, July 27, 2000, at the Law Offices of 24 63 - 4-page G o ier Foundation y 24 Tuchman & Associates, 3435 Wilshire Boulevard, 30th Floor, 64 - 8-page Madera Letter dtd 1120� 86 25 Los Angeles, California. 25 65 - 1-page Fax Transmittal dtd 11/30/99 93 2 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 3 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) i FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I E X H 113 1 T s (Cootirto 1 Thursday, July 27, 2000, 9:57 a.m. 2 Plaintffli Exhibit For Wenti6cum 3 66. 3-pags H C Lei`z2�ema Croasittgt Meeting 93 2 Los Angeles, California 4 67 - I -page Mamer Site Phu lot 3 68 - 1-page Morgan Letter did 12/799 5 69 - I -page Morgan Lana did 12/7M 1l0 110 4 FRANK CODA 6 n - i-page aofTranmoutnl didd iivva 111 5 was called as a witness by and on behalf of the 7 n - i-p gge Lenasmittal did mM 121`108899 its 6 Plaintiff, and having been first duly sworn by the 74 - 2-page Latta of Tranamrrial did IV10t99 8 75 - I -page Born Fax Traniautw 1.1 118 7 ' Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined and testified as 76 - l-page Latta of T =a:intal did 12/15199 122 $ fOIIOWS' 9 77 - 1-page Letter of Transmtral did I1115199 124 78 - I -page Sterling Art Invoice e18923 124 9 10 79 - t-page Fu Transmittal did 1/3M 125 go- I -page Fu Transmittal did WtOO 127 10 EXAMINATION 11 81 - 3-page Fix Transmittal did 1/3M 128 S2 - I -page Latta of Transmittal did 1/40 129 11 12 83 - l-page Letter of Transmittal did 1/5= 130 84 - I -page Latter of Transmittal did 1/6M 130 12 BY MR. COHEN: 13 8866. 1-pMc Letter of Tnainamtuai dW L/7W ittal did 1/6/00 31 13s 13 Q Can you state and spell your name for the record, 14 87 - I -page Lena of Transmittal did 1/10,00 88 - 5-page Fax Transmittal did 1/10M 135 136 14 please. Is 90-pageLenTransmittal did 2)00 i-page Lena f awrw dW /2M 13990 15 A Sara. My name is Frank Coda. That's C-o-d-a. lb 91 - I -page Liner of Transmittal did III2M 92 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal did 1/12i00 139 40 l40 16 Q M name is Loren Cohen. I represent Burlington )r p 17 93 - I -page Lena of Trsnuttal did 1/14 9d - I -page Lena of Tranusmittal dW 1/14,M 00 14017 1411 in this matter. Can you also sate Our current residence ttstate y 18 95 . l-page Letter of Transmittal dW 1/14= 141 18 address? 96 - 1-page Madm Latta dW 122i99 141 19 97 - 5-page Faa Tansmittal dW 126,00 142 19 A Sure. It is 40816th Street, Huntington Beach, 98 - 4-page Smith Latter dW 2/IM 147 . 20 99. 4-page Morgan Lena dW 2/1,00 149 20 California 9264& 100 - 1-page Latta of Transmittal dW 22,00 150 21 101 - 3-pagc Fax Transmittal dW W= 150 21 Q And phone number? l02 - 3-page Fu Transmittal dW 20M 22 I03 - 3-page Fax Transmittal dW 2/10,00 151 151 22 A (714)960.3605. That's home. You gays have my 104 - 12-page Fax Transmissioa dW 211 SM 23 105 - 5-page Fat Transmittal dW 221,00 151 152 23 Work. 106 - 2-page Fix Transmittal dW 22200 24 107 - 3-page Latta of Transmittal dW 222M 153 153 24 _ Q Can you Just give us —108- I -page Latter of Transtrutial dW 20 25 109 - 2-Me Memorandum dW 3/3i00 � 154 155 25 A (714)259-0500. 5 7 1 E X H I B I T S (Continued) 1 Q And what is the address of Greenberg Farrow? 2 Plaintifrs Exhibit For Identification 3 110 - 5-page Fax Transmittal dtd 3/8/00 155 2 A It,s 15101 Red Hill Road, Tustin, 92780. III - 4-page Facsimile dtd 3/9/00 156 3 Q The residence address that you provided us, do you 4 112 - 2-page Fax Transmittal dtd 3120/00 113 - 5-page Fax Transmittal dtd 3/20/00 157 157 4 have any plans of moving from that address? 5 114 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 3/20/00 157 5 A No. 115 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 3/22/00 6 116 - 4-page Fax Transmittal dtd 3124/00 158 159 6 Q Can I have your drivers license number? 117 - 3-page Fax Transmittal dtd 3/29/00 160 7 A Sure. Want me to say it or — 7 118 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 3130/00 119 2-page Multiple Fax Transmittal dtd 3/31/00 160 161 8 Q Yes, say it. - 8 120 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 4/7/00 162 9 A It's B — this is California. B3463673. 121 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 4/7/00 9 122 - 5-page Fax Transmittal did 417/00 163 164 10 Q Have you ever had your deposition taken before? 123 - 2-page Fax Transmittal dtd 4n100 164 11 A Yes. 10 124- 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 4113/00 165 125 - 3-page Fax Transmittal dtd 4/14/00 165 12 Q How many times? 11 126 - 1-page Fax Transmittal did 4/24/00 166 13 A Three or four. 127 - 2-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 6f29/00 166 12 128 - 3-page Fax Transmittal did 4/24/00 166 14 Q As a party or as just a percipient witness? 13 130 - 54age M emooramdttdd sn=— 1167 '15 A As a side party, I guess. I don't know how you — 131- I -page Letter of Transmittal dtd 6/19/00 169 16 we've never been sued. 14 132 - 1-page Letter of Transmittal dtd 6/27/00 170 17 Q Never been sued? 133 - 0-pap Not Marked — 15 134 - 0-page Not Marked- — 18 A We'rejest the lowly architects. 135 - 0-page Not Marked 16 136 - 26-page Transmittal did 12/9/99 — 170 19 Q You have some familiarity of the deposition' 18 20 process; is that correct? 19 21 A Sure. 21 22 Q III just quickly go over some of the standard 22 23 stuff. The oath that you took today is the same oath that _a 24 24 you would take in court. That means you have to tell the 25_ 25 truth, nothing but the truth. Do you understand that? 6 8 2 (Pages 5 to 8) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLIN ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER k_ 1 A Yea, I do. 1 2 Q And the court reporter will prepare the deposition 2 3 transcript which will be my questions and your answers. 3 4 You'll have an opportunity to review the transcript and 4 5 make any changes, but any of the changes that you make may 5 6 be commented on, and we may make some further comment about 6 7 why these changes were made. Do you understand that? 7 8 A Yes, I do. 8 9 Q So basically what we want is your best testimony 9 10 today. Do you understand that? 10 11 A Sure. 11 12 Q Is there any reason why you caul give your best 12 13 testimony today? 13 14 A No. 14 15 Q No medication or anything like that? 15 16 A Iasi night's drinking. No. 16 17 Q You're here pursuant to a deposition subpoena. 17 18 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for ideatification as 18 19 Exhibit 1 the subpoena. 19 20 MR. WATSON: Do we want to keep going in the numbering 20 21 order? 21 22 MR. COHEN: You know what? I guess we will. What did 22 23 they leave off — off the record. 23 24 (Discussion held off the record.) 24 25 MR. COHEN: What well do is mark the deposition 25 E 1 subpoena as Exhibit 33. 1 2 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 33 was marked for 2 3 identification.) 3 4 BY MR. COHEN: 4 5 Q You received this subpoena; is that correct? 5 6 A May I see it? 6 7 Q Yeah, take a look at it. Tbat's fine. 7 8 MR. WATSON: I assume we`re back on. 8 9 MR. COHEN: Yes. 9 10 THE WITNESS: I did not receive these first two pages. 10 11 BY MR. COHEN: 11 12 Q Of the notice of the deposition? But you received 12 13 the actual subpoena itself — 13 14 A Right 14 15 Q — and the attachment — 15 16 A Yes. 16 17 Q — for document production? 17 18 A Yes, yes, yes. 18 19 Q What is your position at Greenberg? 19 20 A I am a prmcipai'in the firm. 20 21 Q When did you become a principal? 21 22 A Just like two or three years, maybe. 22 23 Q How long have you been working at the firm? 23 24 A 12 years. 24 25 Q Can you describe your duties at the first? 25 10 A Yea Q Okay. A I'm generally responsible for — I have multiple tasks, so bear with me. I'm responsible for the Tustin, the western division offices which is Tustin and Oakland. I also am responsible for all architecture in a national basis. We're a seven -office national architect firm, A and E firm and the principal in charge of all architecture. And then I also have some dudes on project related specific projects. I'm also the primary architect on this particular project. Q And were you the primary architect from the beginning of the project? A That's cotrecL Q And when was that? A We started looking at this, I think it was May. Sometime last summer. Sometime spring or summer last year. Q So May '99? A Yeah, plus or mimra The Ezralow Company is a client of ours with multiple projects. So the way it works 1% Oh, here's another one. And that's why I don't have an exact date that we started. But it was somewhere in that time frame. Q So it's the Ezralow Company that has retained your services? . 11 A Yes. Q Huntington Center Associates? Are you familiar with Huntington Center Associates? A Not realty. I assume it's just the entity that they set up to manage the project That's how most developers do iL Q "They" being Ezralow; is that correct? A RighL Q What licensing and credentials do you have? A I am a licensed architect in the State of California Q Anything else? A No. Q Highest level of education? A My bachelors in — how does this work? Bachelors in science and architecture. BS in architecture. Q Where did you get that. from? A Georgia Tech. Q How many divisions -- is it okay if I just say Greenberg?. A Absolutely. We usually use GFA. Q Let's use it the way you use it. How many divisions does GFA have? You mention there's a western division? A Okay. I guess we're broken into about three 7ILIO Sit ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 12 3 (Pages 9 to 12) 1 divisions: The East Coast, Midwest and the West. 2 Q Does GFA work on projects for Ezralow throughout 3 the country or primarily in the west? 4 A Only in the West, only because Ezralow has not 5 done any projects elsewhere. 6 Q I take it you're familiar with the shopping center 7 at Huntington Center? 8 A Yes, I am. Not only as a professional, but as a 9 resident of the City. 10 Q So you've been there before? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Professionally, as well? 13 A Both. 14 Q Okay. What's GFA's involvement in the 15 redevelopment that is now going on with the Center? 16 Describe it. 17 A I would say we are the primary architect of record 18 for all development activities. 19 Q Are there any other architects or architectural 20 firms? 21 A There is a designer. 22 Q Who is that? 23 A That is Tom Sawyer of -- 24 Q Can you spell that for us? 25 A I believe it's S-a-w-y-e-r. 13 1 Q Do you know the — is it Tom Sawyer & Associates? 2 A Yeah, it's in here. Make sure I get it right 3 And they're -- while I look it up — has been assisting as 4 on the look, the look of the — 5 Q Does that mean the Italian theme — 6 A Right 7 Q --that's being created? Was Tom Sawyer the one 8 who thought of the Italian village look? 9 A No, actually, there's a company, specifically Doug 10 Gray, and myself have been playing around with different 11 themes. We said let's try the Italian theme. And then we 12 brought in Tom Sawyer, because of his expertise on that 13 sort of work. We were lacking in that area in terms of 14 Italian villa. He's a set designer for Hollywood, so be 15 had dote a lot of that fate. 16 Q Facade? 17 A Facade wort. 18 Q I'd like to get his address and phone number. 19 A I'm stiff looking for it I'm sorry. 20 Q When was he retained? 21 A You know what? Let me find the address, because 22 that's got the transmittal I believe that was somewhere 23 in the late fall, November, December. 24 Q Of'99? 25 A Of'". 14 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I Q Have you worked with Tom Sawyer before? 2 A No. 3 Q So this was from Doug Gray from Ezralow? 4 A From Ezralow, that's correct 5 Q Who are the primary persons from the Ezralow 6 Company that you're working with on this project? 7 A There's -- well, I guess Doug is the primary 8 person we work with. There's also Paul Bernard that we 9 work with -- t0 Q Go ahead. 11 A -- who is kind of Doug's assistant on the leasing 12 side. And then we work with Christina Hughes who is the 13 construction manager, if you would, for the Ezralow 14 Company. 15 Q Hughes? 16 A H-u-g-e-s. 17 MR. WATSON: g-h? 18 THE WITNESS: Sorry, g-h. 19 BY MR. COHEN: 20 Q What was her title? 21 A I call her the construction manager. I don't 22 really -- she may have an official title that I'm not aware 23 of. 24 Q Do you know Doug Gray's title? 25 A I believe it's president of the Ezralow retail is 1 division. I may have that off a tad, but 2 Q Ezralow also does office space; is that correct? 3 A Apparently from what I know of them, and I got 4 involved with them probably four years now ago with them. 5 Ran into them on a project And they do office. I think 6 they do multi -family, kind of diversified. Just genera[ 7 developers when projects make sense. 8 Q Are you familiar with Scott Dinovitz? 9 A Yes, I am. 10. Q What capacity are you familiar with him? 11 A He has been taking the lead as far as the 12 entitlement process with the City. 13 Q Do you know if he's affiliated with Ezralow? 14 A He is a consultant, is my understanding. 15 Q Is he going to be the contractor? 16 A No. 17 Q Is his company or anything that he's developed 18 with going to be contractor? . 19 A No. It's Larry, Larry Dinovitz and 20 Scott Dinovitz. Father, son. Larry Dinovitz is involved 21 on other Ezralow projects. I think they used Scott on this 22 one primarily for the entitlement, while Larry has place 23 assisting us on the construction side. 24 Q What does that mean, "construction"? 25 A Well, in other words, when — you know, the 16 4 (Pages 13 to 16) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 pricing of the project There's always as in any project, 1 2 there's decisions you make— As an example, the existing 2 3 project is on piles. Do we use existing piles? Drive new 3 4 piles? What can we use? What can we not use? He's been 4 5 doing that investigation. We pall up an existing pile to 5 6 see what shape it's in, to find out can we reuse if. Kind 6 7 of give you a sense. Construction matters that will affect 7 8 dollars, he would be kind of assisting on what's the best 8 9 decision making for that. 9 10 Q And Scott Dinovitz works with the City? 10 11 A Scott is taking the lead with the City. As an 11 12 example of that, he was taking the lead on preparing the 12 13 specific plan. So he would call us for all the exhibits 13 14 and language that was needed for the specific plan. And 14 15 there's multiple consultants on the specific plan, so we 15 16 were one of many, but be was coordinating that effort and 16 17 take it on through. 17 18 Q So is he retained by Ezralow, do you know? 18 19 A I assume so, I don't think he's working for free. 19 20 Could be. 20 21 Q Now, the City of Huntington Beach hasn'tretained 21 22 the services of GFA? ( 22 23 A No, that's correct. This is bothering me. Can I 23 24 take one break until we talk so I can find — 24 25 MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record. 25 17 1 (Discussion held off the record.) 1 2 THE WITNESS: Mr. Richard Sawyer is actually the 2 3 person. And he is with Tom Sawyer Design Group. 3 4 BY MR. COHEN: 4 5 Q And their address is? 5 6 A 630 South Detroit Street, Los Angeles, 90036. 6 7 Q And their phone number? 7 8 A That, I don't have with me. 8 9 Q What are you looking at? 9 10 A I was looking at a transmittal dated January 14 10 11 where we were sending him a partial site plan of the 11 12 village area 12 13 Q That's part of the production you provided us 13 14 today? 14 15 A RighL Now, you guys are — this is my only copy, 15 16 so you're going to copy this; is that correct? 16 17 MR. COHEN: Yeah, off the record on that. 17 18 (Discussion held off the record.) 18 19 MR. COHEN: Let's go back on the record. 19 20 BY MR. COHEN: 20 21 Q Okay. The documents that you brought today, who 21 22 assembled those documents? 22 23 A This is our project Me that we just keep. So 23 24 it's assembled by the people working on iL 24 25. Q And would that be yourself? 25 18 A No, that would not be myself. That would be others in the office. There's a gentleman by the name of Bob Bocci who works for me. That's a gentleman by the name of Jon Veregge also works for me. Q And they gave it over to you? A That's correct. I said, "Give me the file." MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark these documents for identification. I'm going to mark them each separately as a separate exhibit. Well just cut through it. MR. WATSON: Do you have some paper clips and post -its? MR. COHEN: Yeah. Let me go get some. (Recess taken.) MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 34 a fax transmittal dated July 27, 1999. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 34 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Can you give a brief explanation of what this document is? A Sure. This is a transmittal. We were sending some project information to one of our design partners in Atlanta. Q Would this be the initial start date that your firm — A Well, probably a little bit earlier, because I 19 didn't see the need to bring Osvaldo in until we understood what the scope of the work was or where we were headed. That probably corresponded to that May'", because this is dated July 27. So it probably puts as in the category of that May. Q Is this chronological? A I don't know. I haven't looked at It, to be honest. I hope it is, but don't hold me to it. Q Okay. MR. COHEN: Another document, it's the same thing. This is the confirmation. We keep the confirmation of the faxes. Well mark the confirmation as 34-B. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 34-B was marked for identification.) THE Wfl'NESS: Well probably see duplicate things. We're kind of sensitive to record -keeping. BY MR. COHEN: Q Well, thats good. A This looks like the same. Q This is going to be the same thing as well. MR. COHEN: Well mark that as 34-C — BY MR. COHEN: Q Is it because these were CC-ed to several different people? A I don't know. I don't know why there's JILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 20 5 (Pages 17 to 20) 1 duplicates. It looks like this one was signed and this one 2 wasn't. 3 MR. COHEN: Well marked the signed one as Exhibit 4 35. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 35 was marked for identification.) MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 36 a letter of transmittal dated August 13, 1999. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 36 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Can you give a description of this? A It looks like we're sending a copy of a site plan over to harry Dinovitz. And you can see there was confusion with as at the beginning, because we address it to the Ezralow Company in Calabasas, addressed to Larry, but that's because at the time Bob didn't understand that Larry was actually an outside consultant, because it tuns pretty close. It seemed like they're all together, but they are separate. Q So to your knowledge, Larry Dinovitz has worked on several different projects with Ezralow Company? A Correct I believe there's a longstanding relationship there. That's the impression I get. Just it looks like the particular issue was the parking structure 21 that we were adding.. Q Okay. So at this time of August 13, 1999, GFA has already prepared site plans; is that correct? A That's correct. Q Can you describe what a site plan is? A A site plan is — okay, I know, this is basically a plan view, like an aerial shot of what a project may be. Best way I can describe W Q Is something like that contained in the SP-12 or SP-13? A Yes. There is a site plan in here. For example, this would be — this is a landscape concept plan, but this is generally a site plan showing, looking down on the project, aerial view plan view of the whole site. Q Right now you`re pointing -to page 54 of SP-12. A That's correct This is actually SP-12, Exhibit 13. Q Exhibit 13 of SP712. Do you know when you first prepared a site plan for this project? , A I'm guessing a little bit, but I would suspect it's somewhere in that late May, early June. Q And is this done on a computer like a CAD program? A No, this was probably done by hand at the time. Q The first one? 22 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTOWCENTER 1 A Right. We do, depending on the need of the site 2 plan. You know, sometimes it's a very quick, big, fat 3 concept site plan. Hey, we can pat some mass over here, 4 some parking over here. That would be a freehand one. 5 If we need to count parking someplace, we would 6 get into a computer -generated for more accuracy. 7 Q The site plan you were pointing as SP-12 is that 8 computer or — 9 A That's computer. 10 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 11 Exhibit 37 another letter of transmittal dated August 20, 12 1999. 13 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 37 was marked for 14 identification.) 15 BY MR. COHEN: 16 Q Can you give a brief description of this? 17 A Suter This we have a transmittal of a site plan 18 to Doug Cleary or Home Base. 19 Q Who are they? 20 A Home Base is a home improvement retailer in 21 Southern California. 22 Q So this was a proposal to try and get them to 23 lease space? 24 A Correct. 25 Q Is GFA involved in assisting Ezralow, let's say, 23 1 to get retail tenants? 2 A If you define "assist," the answer is "yes." 3 Assist is send site plans to potential users, send 4 information. I mean we're just — as an example, you 5 got — I was subpoenaed because we're keeper of the 6 records. So we have all the information. So, hey, you 7 know, they will call us. Ezralow Company will say, Send a 8 package over to so-and-so. And we'll, whatever it is, 9 sometimes — sometimes a lot of these retailers we know 10 because that's our specialty is retail, actually. So you 11 know, we'll — in this case, we're courting Home Base. 12 We'll put their footprint on the site plan. So when they 13 get it, hey, that's as. Could we tit here? Yes or no. So 14 to that degree of assisting, yes. 15 Q But it's Ezralow who directs you — 16 A Correct. 17 Q -- to send it out to a particular retailer? 18 A Correct 19 Q You did not locate or find retailers? 20 A No, we may make suggestions, because we know the 21 market Point of the profession things we do as architects 22 is we think about the mix of users. And we do make 23 recommendations. Well, I think we ought to have a 24 nightclub or I think we ought to have a restaurant to help 25 this space and feeling. 24 6 (Pages 21 to 24) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINU fON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q Has GFA made any suggestions or recommendations I 2 regarding this property as to retailers? 2 3 A Yeah, 3 4 Q What kind of suggestions has GFA made? 4 5 A Our feeling is that it needs to be a very high -end 5 6 establishmeat and not just retail. And in fact when you 6 7 look at the surrounding, I guess in a way they're competing 7 8 centers. You have Westminster Mall down the road. You 8 9 have South Coast Plaza. Irvine Spectrum. You have the 9 10 Block at Orange. You have Fashion Island. You go and look 10 11 at all those. You see what retailers they have, what they 11 12 don't have, and why they may be successful and why they may 12 13 not. We recommend that for a successful project you want 13 14 to have something unique in the marketplace. So yes, we 14 15 were recommending a high -end retail, slash, entertainment, 15 16 slash, eating concept. 16 17 Q Was GFA consulted prior to Ezralow's purchase of 17 18 this property? 18 19 A Yes. Yes, I can remember the date Doug called me 19 20 and said, do you know the Huntington Center? I said, Do I? 20 21 Because I live there. It's a great piece of property. As 21 22 an investment, I mean the previous owners, Macerich, was in 22 23 my opinion they dropped the ball and were foolish to sell 23 24 it. But it's my own opinion professionally, I guess 24 25 Q Can you describe what else was said in that 25 qE I conversation? 1 2 A Just that they were looking at acquiring the 2 3 project and what my thoughts were as, I guess, again as a 3 4 consultant just like an attorney, anyone else, their client 4 5 says Hey, what do you think? I said, Hey, it would be 5 6 great. It would be perfect to redo the whole thing. It's 6 7 got to go. City's been wanting to redo it for ten years 7 8 since I moved in there '92. It's an eyesore to the City. 8 9 I guess that's a little bit of my living in the city. I 9 10 try not to mix the two. But it's been long overdue. So I 10 11 was really excited, not only from the potential of being 11 12 the architect, but as a resident in the city. It would be 12 13 great to do something with it. 13 14 MR. WATSON: Can I ask a question? When was this 14 15 conversation? 15 16 THE WITNESS: I guess Pat still in that May '99. 16 17 BY MR. COHEN: 17 18 Q May 199. But this is prior to their purchase? 18 19 A Oh, yeah. That's typical. I mean of course I 19 20 would recommend to any client to get their architect 20 21 involved prior to any purchase. 21 22 Q Especially of this magnitude? 22 23 A Right. 23 24 Q It was being contemplated that it was going to be 24 25 . a massive redevelopment of the center at that time? 25 tV A Right, that was my recommendation. Q And what was Doug Gray's comments? A I think we were in agreement that there -- you need to do something dramatic, different. Q Did that mean raising all the structures? A Yeah. There's really nothing worth saving out there. Again, that's my professional opinion. The buildings are very old. It doesn't fit the -- doesn't fit the concept that we had in mind in terms of a high -end outdoor area type of thing. Q What about the Mervyn's location? A It was there. Q Does that fit into the -- your concept, though? A Rather not have it there. Q What about the Montgomery Wards location? A Rather not have that there either. Q Have you had any conversations with Doug Gray or anyone else from Ezralow regarding keeping or somehow getting rid of the Montgomery Wards or Mervyn's? A Any and all of those. When you go to diverge a little bit when you look at a site, you look at any and all possibilities, from keeping everything which we went through, to demolishing everything, to picking pieces and parts. We had -- actually, EDAW — this is one of the consultants — had done a scheme that made it a — like a 27 town with roads and blocks and, you know. So you typically do that. You go, okay, you got to look at this as a clean slate and what is the best, highest use of the project — of the property. Q What is EDAW? What do they do? A EDAW is — they — well, they're a consulting firm that prepares environmental impact statements, environmental impact reports I think they were part of the specific — they were involved in the specific plan in some way. I'm surprised they're not on there. Q They are on the second page I believe? A That's what I thought. Q We're looking at SP-12. A Ob. Q Right there. A I thought they were. Q They're on SP-13. A Yeah, they had dome the specific plan for the previous project that was proposed by Macerich. So, it was obviously beneficial to the project to engage them to help us modify that previous specific plan. Q Would that be plans 1 through 11 then? A The specific plans? Q Yeah. A Yeah, that would most likely be the case. I'm not )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 28 7 (Pages 25 to 28) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sure why the numbering system is as it is. But I know there was a previously approved specific plan for the previously approved Macerich project Q Was it approved by the City? A I believe that was the case. That was my impression. At least it had been approved. And then Macerich did not act on it Q Did you take a look at that? A At their plan? Q At that plan. A SP-2. Q Where is it? A I'm sorry. It's in this book. Q Okay. Well get to it - A Yeah, it is their previous plan in here somewhere. I know we have a copy of it, and we had looked at that Q Okay. Well get to it. Ill make a note. MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 38 a letter of transmittal. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 38 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: This is going to Scott Dinovitz. We were sendlNG four full-sized hundred scale site plans and four, 11-by-17 site plans. And looks like four of three elevations. So we're transmitting plans and elevations to 29 Scott, which would mean we would be -- and it was per the request of Paul Bernard. He's starting to get his hand around what the project is, what he's going to have to do. Starting to get involved with this project, I guess. BY MR. COHEN: Q Now, this is enclosing the site plans. Do you know where the site plan is that that is referring to? A We have all the site plans, and I guess we — it's going to be difficult We can look at them all, but to say this is the site plan that went with this transmittal. Q I'd like to try to do that Is that going to be in this book? A No, you'll have to come down to our office. We'll have to go through the plans and try to match it up. Q Okay. Well, do you know if= how many site plans were created for this project? A Full and partial, the combination of those two, and the sketches and everything, just to give you an example, that's probably in the order of 50 to 75 of partials and little, you know, sketches on this corner and — Q Now, in the — at least SP-13 -- there's two primary design plans? A Conceptual site plans; that is correct Q One being — that includes Burlington, and one Ful FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 that doesn't include Burlington? 2 A Correct 3 Q Now, when you say 50 or 70, are you just saying 4 that you're just totalling up like different little pieces 5 of those two plans? 6 A No, I'm talking about all — all concepts and 7 plans that we may have generated or had generated on the 8 project 9 Q I see. So there have been roughly 50 to 70 10 distinct conceptual design plans or site plans created for 11 this project? 12 A No, as far as distinct plans, we're probably in 13 the order of live to ten. That's what I meant by partial. 14 Sometimes we'll say, hey, let's look at this one - 15 corner of the site and see if we can increase the GLA or do 16 the parking. We won't draw the whole concept again. We'll 17 try the corner. So the combination of full site plans and 18 sketches trying to get you a sense of the volume. 19 Q 50 to 70? 20 A Right 21 Q Maybe as far as — 22 A Probably in the five to ten at most 23 Q Out of those five or ten, do you know how many of 24 those actually included the Burlington structure? 25 A I would say possibly two or three. The Burlington 31 1 structure, it represents a problem in the siting of the 2 project 3 Q I want to get to that — well, why is it a 4 problem? 5 A Well, because again if you're — the premises 6 again, as we're trying to create something much better than 7 is there, the physical location of that building was — 8 it's just in a bad place from a planning perspective in 9 terms of parking layout, in terms of the village and the 10 courtyard that we were trying to create. And the masting's 11 all wrong. It's a three-story, old, ugly building. Our 12 masting is for a two-story quaint village. You've got a 13 bad location. You got a bad masting. 14 Q Does the Montgomery Wards structure pose any of 15 the same problems? 16 A A mach lesser degree because its location on the 17 site is — we were able to accommodate being able to keep 18 it if we wanted. We still would like to see it not be 19 there, but we were able to accommodate that situation 20 because of its location. And also Montgomery's, if they 21 stay in the project, they were talking about rebuilding 22 their building anyway. So we had the opportunity to get 23 rid of the roasting problem and site it differently. 24 It won't be the exact same footprint, but we were 25 able to move it up left or right or up or back to tie it 32 8 (Pages 29 to 32) 31LIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 SURLIN.. , ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 into the concept better. We had more flexibility with them I 1 2 building a new building. 2 3 Q You don't necessarily mean building a new 3 4 building? You mean creating a facade? 4 5 A No, the discussion with them was they were going 5 6 to build their own building. 6 7 Q Actually raise the existing — 7, 8 A They didn't need the square footage. They had too 8 9 much square footage. These are discussions we had with 9 10 them. This goes back to the assisting side that you 10 11 mentioned. 11 12 Many times once we start that, sending the 12 13 package, we'll be talking to their architects or real 13 14 estate person or trying to get a feel for what it is they 14 15 want, what the issues are. 15 16 That facility, they really conveyed to as they 16 17 didn't have a problem rebuilding a new building. They 17 18 wanted a new box, because it's outdated for them and more 18 19 square footage than they need. All the factors. So we 19 20 were able to move around 20 21 And in fact, we had contemplated building over 21 22 their new building with more of the center which was — 22 23 because they only wanted one story, so we could have — for 23 24 instance, we contemplated putting the theater over that at 24 25 one point in time. 25 33 1 Q When were these conversations? 1 2 A Oh, this, these conversations started in say July 2 3 or September. And to be honest, they still continue 3 4 today. We don't have a solid site plan. We don't have 4 5 a- 5 6 Q And these are conversations with Montgomery Wards 6 7 people regarding what to do with their structure? 7 8 A No, the Montgomery Ward conversations probably 8 9 started -- well, we'll probably come to one when we send 9 10 them something to give us an indication. But probably in 10 11 August, September, and continued threw up until say January 11 12 or February. 12 13 Q Are you still talking with them and working with 13 14 them? 14 15 A Not at the moment. 15 16 Q Do you know why? 16 17 A No, I don't. I think we just don't agree on — on 17 18 an architect basis, we didn't agree on the look they were 18 19 proposing. On a development basis, I don't know why. 19 20 Q Okay. On the Montgomery Ward side, who were you 20 21 talking to or who do .you see? 21 22 A We'll have to say. See, I personally was not 22 23 doing the talking. That's Bob Bucd. 23 24 Q Bob Bucci's position at GFA? 24 25 A He's actually our landscape department head, but 25 34 he also serves as a project coordinator. Q But do you know — do you have any knowledge as to who on the Montgomery Ward side is the contact? A Well, we'll probably. I'm sure there's a transmittal in there, because I know we sent them site plans and they sent as elevations. And there's the back and forth. Q Now, you didn't bring all of the site plans with you today? A No, I didn't. I should have called you and said let's have the deposition in my office, because that would have been the better. But anyway. Q Well move on. And talk about maybe something in the future. Okay. MR. COHEN: I'm going to mark for identification as Exhibit 39 a letter of transmittal, September 22, 1999. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 39 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Can you describe what this document is? A We're sending two 100 scale site plans of the project per the request of Paul Bernard to this person, Tricia Lynch at UM. I don't know what she does, who she is. Probably a potential resaler. Q You don't know what IJM is? 35 A I don't know. Q Okay. Most of these past transmittals weren't signed. Does that mean that there may be an original out there that was signed? A No, I don't think. It's not actually our custom to sign them. It didn't mean that there's an original or not. Q At this point these are the only copies? A That's correct. MR. COHEN: A letter, another letter of transmittal. I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 40 another letter of transmittal dated — TTE WITNESS: No. MR. COZEN: — 9/1/99. And this is a yellow piece of paper. THE WITNESS: Right. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 40 was marked for identification.) BY MR. CORN: Q Can you give a little description of what this is and why it's on yellow? A Deal with the yellow issue first. Around that time we were transitioning from the old carbon transmittals to computer -generated. So this is a hangover from the carbon transmittal. This is actually sent out by one of 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 36 9 (Pages 33 to 36) 1 the adman staff, Kim Locke. She was using up the 1 2 carbon -type transmittals. 2 3 Q Being efficient? 3 4 A Yeah. This is going to Grub & Ellis who is a 4 5 broker firm. Attention -- I guess I can't quite read iL 5 6 Mike something. Zoob. 6 7 Q Zobe or -- 7 8 A Something like that And looks like what are we 8 9 sending, some site plans again. Two copies. 9 10 Q And this again is Grub & Ellis being a broker or 10 11 agent? 11 12 A Most likely they're probably representing some 12 13 users that Paul -- Paul Bernard is really the main leasing 13 14 guy. He assisted Doug, but he's the person. He's the 14 15 person soliciting tenants. A lot of our direction comes 15 16 from him as far as send this to so-and-so, blah, blah, 16 17 blab. 17 18 Q Paul Bernard is Ezralow? 18 19 A He works for Ezralow retail division. 19 20 Q Okay. Do you know if any retailers have actually 20 21 committed to coming into this project? 21 22 A I don't know that anyone has signed a lease. 1 22 23 know we have a lot of "yeah, we want to be there." 23 24 Q Uh-huh. 24 25 A Depends how you define "commitment" I'd like to 25 37 1 believe they are, but do we have any signed lease? I don't 1 2 believe we do. I'm not under that impression. 2 3 Q Are they making any design specifications or 3 4 design requests that you are currently incorporating? 4 5 A Absolutely. That's kind of the process. In 5 6 general. In this project, you development it. You 6 7 solicit Someone gets a user involved. You send them what 7 8 you think. They say, "No, this is what we think." Then 8 9 you go back and forth on look and location and design until 9 10 both parties say "Okay, we can agree," or "We can't agree," 10 11 and either you're not in the project or — 11 12 Q This is what you have to live with? 12 13 A Right, you got it 13 14 Q Right now for this project, you're working with 14 15 several retailers? _ _ 15 16 A That's correct Retailers and restaurants and 16 17 theaters- 17 18 Q What retailers? 18 19 A I belleve we're working with — I call them the 19 20 Gap Companies, which is like Old Navy and 20 21 Abercrombie & Fitch. And I think there's one other that 21 22 goes with them. 22 23 Q Are they thinking about putting Old Navy in there? 23 24 A They were. I don't know the status today whether 24 25 they're in or out That's one of the things. We don't 25 38 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER necessarily know who's in or out at any given point of time. All we know, all these people we talked to and sent information and try to deal with and done elevations for. But on this exact day, that, I would not know. Q Do you know approximately how many square feet Old Navy wants or was looking at? A They typically take like 25-,30,000 feet MR. WATSON: When you say "they," just the Gap Company in general? THE WITNESS: No, Old Navy. We've done Old Navy in other shopping centers. Usually they're 25,000 to 30,000. BY MR. COHEN: Q Usually Old Navy would be a bigger space than the Gap? A Typically. The other thing we were trying to do, get them to go two-story, because typically retailers want to be one-story. Again, back to the concept and the most economical use, we were looking for users that would go as a two-story use. And that's not too common. You have to kind of pressure them a little biL So we were hoping that they would accept thaL Then we could get the vertical, the two-story vertical element we needed to increase our — all the good things that go with doing a two-story thing. Q For retailers, what's the maximum sized square 39 footage you would like to see go in there for one particular retailer? A On this particular project? Q Yes. A Well, there's a couple of areas. Bat in general, in what I'll call the mall, not the mail area, the — Q Village? A Village area. And the courtyard for lack of better terms today. You realty want to be over that 25-, 30,000 feet, because if you get over that, you're going to have a tenant that has a different margin. You can probably press to 45,000. I think Circuit City was looking at 30- to 40,000 feet, but they were not right in that Q They're existing already outside the -- A We had been talking about moving them into the center and redoing their space. So you can do the bigger users away from the main street, because they're — again, it goes back to a masting issue. The box is bigger. But when they're right on that street, right on the walkway, you really don't want, you know, 50 or not even that There will be 100 feet of frontage. And most of those retailers want a blank wall. They don't want windows. They don't really want any of that stufL So from a took point of view, it kind of ruins the whole look that you're trying to accomplish. 40 10 (Pages 37 to 40) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 SURLINuTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I Q You'd rather have window frontage and smaller? I 2 A Right. 2 3 Q What other retailers? You mentioned the Gap group 3 4 of companies. Anything else? 4 5 A like I said, we had, well, Circuit City in there. 5 6 We had been talking to Best Buy. They were interested. 6 7 Q How many square foot for them? 7 8 A 45,000. 8 9 Q Is that going to be in the -- the central area? 9 10 Do you know what I'm talking about when I say -- 10 11 A Let me look at a plan. 11 12 Q Yeah, let's look at a plan. 12 13 MR. COHEN- Actually, III mark one of these site 13 14 plans as an exhibit. We're on 41. No, I have it right 14 15 here. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 41 a site plan that's 15 16 entitled the Crossings at Huntington Beach. 16 17 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 41 was marked for 17 18 identification.) 18 19 BY MR. COHEN: 19 20 Q This one, I presume excludes the Burlington 20 21 structure; am I correct on that? 21 22 A Yes, you were. Right, they would be. We would be 22 23 contemplating — you can see a bigger user outside of this 23 24 main area. So they would be either in here or actually 24 25 we're talking about putting them over here. 25 41 1 Q When you're pointing — 1 2 A Sorry. 2 3 Q -- to the south, that faces the Edinger Avenue — 3 4 1 don't know if this is south. It face's the Edinger 4 5 Avenue street? 5 6 A It would be the area that's facing Center, over 6 7 here. 7 8 Q Oh, the one that faces Center? 8 9 A If you're going to do something, you're going to 9 10 do it back in this area for the larger users. 10 11 Q And that's the left upper quarter of the site 11 12 plan? 12 13 A Yeah. Trying to get — I mean pretty much the 13 14 ocean is this way. 14 15 MR. WATSON: Right. 15 16 BY MR. COHEN: __ 16 17 Q We can divide it up in quarters. When you're 17 18 facing it left, upper quarter, which has two big boxes and 18 19 the parking structure? 19 20 A Correct 20 21 Q So that's where the — 21 22 A You're either going to do larger users in that 22 23 quarter or you're going to come down on the diagonal 23 24 corner, back at Beach and Edinger and try to reconfigure. 24 25 Q That would be in the lower right-hand quarter of 25 42 the -- A Plan. Q -- site plan? A Uh-huh. Q Where is the movie theater contemplated? A Right now it's on second level, this dash line. Q It's the dash line that's really in the center of the — I'm going to mark the movie theater as "A." Can you put it down? A Surely. Q Where it's going to be? MR. WATSON: Use a blue pen. THE WITNESS: 11 do arrows to give you the outline. The arrows are pointing to the outline of the movie theater which would be above that level. BY MR. COHEN: Q I see. There's going to be a two-story elevation there; is that correct? A Correct On the first level you're going to have some retail and shops and restaurants all in this courtyard. Then you'll have some vertical transportation, elevators and escalators and stairs, which would bring you up to theater leveL MR. WATSON: Is any of this set or.final? THE WITNESS: No, nothing's ever set or fmaL- I wish . 43 it was, because it's driving me nuts. MR. COHEN: I also want to mark as Exhibit -- mark for identification as Exhibit 42 another, what's entitled "Illustrative Conceptual Matter plan." (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 42 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q This one, I presume, includes the Burlington space? A That would be correct. Indicated In this cross -bashed building right there. Q Can you mark that on there as Exhibit A where the Burlington space is located? A Sure. Q And on Exhibit 42, can you mark where the movie theater would go? A It looks like it would be right in this cross -hashed area right here. I'm going to call that "B." Q Well call the movie theater on Exhibit 42 B. A I'll use the red. MR. WATSON: I don't mean to interrupt your question. The Exhibit 42 has a May 22, 2000 date. Do you know when Exhibit 41 would be dated? Because I don't see one on there. Is it before or after or you don't know? THE WITNESS: I don't know. 44 11 (Pages 41 to 44) JILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 BY MR. COHEN: 2 Q I do like to find out these dates. I presume on 3 the plans, the big plans that you have back at the office, 4 are they stated? 5 A Some are, some aren't. 6 Q Are they blueprints that you have at the office? 7 A No, they're actually original drawings vetums or 8 plots of drawings. 9 Q And those would be on the computer? 10 A Some are, some aren't. Some are hand, some are 11 computer. 12 Q The ones that are done on computer, is the 13 computer — would that give us a date of when it was 14 created? 15 A It should have a Ilk date. 16 Q A file date? 17 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 43 a letter of 18 transmittal dated September 10, 1999. 19 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 43 was marked for 20 identification.) 21 THE WITNESS: Again, this is going to Grub & Ellis 22 again. Attention, Mike Zoob. Here's the person that — 23 just out of curiosity — 9/1 — September loth. Okay. For 24 some reason we sent them again site plans. 25 / 45 I BY MR. CORN: 2 Q And you don't know — do you know which site plans 3 were sent? 4 A No. We might be able to figure that out. 5 Q Do you think that it could be Exhibit 41? 6 A I don't know. 7 Q You have no idea? 8 A I have no idea. And you know, someone's going to 9 be problematic on the dates, too, because the computer file 10 changes the date. It's not a record. We don't keep of 11 record of it, so if we changed a parking space yesterday — 12 Q You ll resave it and it becomes the new date? 13 A No, it will just — yeah, it will resave it. 14 Q And that becomes the new date. To your 15 knowledge, is there any way we can pin:down when these 16 plans were prepared? 17 A I'm not going to say. I mean we'll have to sit 18 there and try and figure it out. We may be, we may not be 19 able to. This Is one of the problems with the computer 20 world, by the way. It used to be we had a paper copy of 21 everything. And now computer world is good news, bad news. 22 Certainly, we can try. You just can't guaranty we can 23 specifically say what plan went to what person. I guess if 24 it was important, maybe they still have a copy of that. 25 Q l might have to get it from them. 46 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 2 Exhibit 44 another fax transmittal letter from Geotechnical 3 Professionals, Inc., dated September 16, '99. 4 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 44 was marked for 5 identification.) 6 BY MR. COHEN: 7 Q What is it? 8 A This is coming from the G.P.I., which is 9 Geotechnical engineers, which basically thin is their 10 preliminary feasibility study of the geotechnical issues of 11 the site. This is their report 12 Q And the report — I guess Exhibit 44 goes on, with 13 the fax cover sheet there's a five -page report, another 14 page entitled references, the sixth page, and then a site 15 location map and another. 16 A Existing condition site plan. 17 Q Site plan. And that's the complete exhibit -- oh, 18 no. It goes on. There's an appendix to Exhibit 42. What 19 is this cone penetrometer? 20 A This is a diagram of CPT for short And it's 21 another way in Hea of doing a boring to find out 22 sub -surface conditions. 23 Q See what the soil is made out of? 24 A You got it. And these are the results of that 25 CPT. 47 1 Q The next page, entitled "Log of CPT" — 2 A C-1. 3 Q There's one, two, three, goes up to five pages of 4 log results for the CPT. And that's all of Exhibit 42. 5 A Right. In fact, these black marks will probably 6 be the CPTs, one, two, three. These correspond on the site 7 plan, the black dots correspond to the results of these 8 sub -surface investigations- 9 Q You're pointing to the black dots contained on the 10 site plans of Exhibit 42? 11 A Right. 12 Q Ib you think this is the site plan that was 13 attached to the previous fax transmittals? 14 A No, this is an existing condition site plan. 15 Q I understand. This is how the property looks 16 today? 17 A We would not — chances are we would not be 18 sending existing condition site plans to any of these 19 previous people. We would probably be sending proposed 20 site plans, since we're sending to brokers 21 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 45 another 22 letter of transmittal dated October 1, 1999. 23 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 45 was marked for 24 identification.) 25 THE WITNESS: This is going to — he misspells the word 48 12 (Pages 45 to 48) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Benchmark Morley instead as Benchmade. But Benchmark 1 Q Do you know where that's located? 2 Morley is a contractor. So we are sending them a site plan 2 A Which one? 3 No. I. Conceptual site plan No. 1. 3 _ Q Streetscape. Was this project a Dream Works 4 At some point in time we started to number them. 4 project? 5 So somewhere in, what, September, October, we -- probably 5 A The one — there's two. Sony Pictures one which 6 what happens is you're doing all these different things and 6 is the old Columbia studio, that's definitely the 7 finally things start to settle down. You say okay this is 7 streetscape look. 8 somewhat real. 8 Q That you're looking for? 9 BY MR. COHEN: 9 A That we looked at to see how they might have 10 Q Put a number to it? 10 accomplished it with paving. And for them to show as their 11 A Let's put a number to it. 11 work. The DreamWorks was more of a campus style. It 12 Q But that has no correlation to the specific plan 12 wasn't more of a street style, more campus style. However, 13 12 or specific plan 13? 13 it was a good example of their work. They wanted to show 14 A No, independent numbering. 14 us, hey. 15 Q Okay. 15 Q Do you know where they re located? 16 A So we're sending the site plan to the contractor,_ 16 A Who? 17 knowing it's not stated here, but it is probably at the 17 Q Swingerton? 18 request of Larry Dinovitz, because he's taking care of 18 A Not offhand. 19 pricings. He probably said, Bob, send over a site plan so 19 Q They're Southern California? 20 they can see what we're thinking about as of this day. 20 A Yeah, they're right in L.A. 21 Q To your knowledge, has Ezralow retained Benchmark 21 Q Okay. And the third? 22 Morley as the contractor for this project? 22 A The third was another one of these big guys that 23 A No. It's typical to, if you have relationships 23 we didn't get too far on. I don't remember their name 24 with contractors, to ask them to look at it, what do they ( 24 offhand. May be in here. Maybe come up with it But the 25 , think? Rough, is it ten million? Is it a hundred million? 25 third was a person that we — as soon as I find 14 I'll 49 I 51 1 Q They bid out just to get a quick estimate? 1 2 A I don't think they bid out. It's morewhat are 2 3 you talking about here? 3 4 Q Do you know if a contractor has been approved yet? 4 5 A No, we have interviewed numerous, two or three 5 6 contractors. I was a part of that myself But we have 6 7 not, to my knowledge, came to a selection of the 7 8 contractor. 8 9 Q What contractors have you interviewed? 9 10 A Well, Benchmark Morley was one. Swingerton and — 10 11 I'm sorry. I can't remember their last name. They're a 11 12 fairly large contractor In the area They did. We went up 12 13 and saw Universal Studios and the Sony Pictures because 13 14 they were the contractors on that. 14 15 Q Did they do City Walla? 15 16 A They did not do City Walk.._.— 16 17 'Q, They did something on the lot, Universal Studios? 17 18 A Right, not Universal. It was Sony. And who is 18 19 the — darn. Who Is the — like the main producer guy 19 20 that — 20 21 Q Dream Works, Spielberg? 21 22 A Right Those two campuses because they were — 22 23 the work they did. And it was kind of as close we could 23 24 get to a like kind project, a streetscape or something like 24 25 that, to interview them. 25 50 go, Yeah. We looked at them and said that they're not really what we're looking for. Q They're out of the picture, the third? A Right. Q Are you looking at anyone else? A Not currently. But you know, we're at a point if -- before we start the next, the next big thing for as, once a site plan is finalized, then we start schematic drawings. And that's when — we recommend, don't have to do it this way, but we recommend the owner retains the contractor that he hopes to use, so we can work with them In developing the schematic plans and the design development plans and constriction documents. You can also not involve anyone. We can prepare everything and just send it out to bid to a hundred people. But on a project of this nature, it's not the best way to go. You're best to have one. You may still bid it. You may still say, you know, Mr. Contractor, we're going to pay you a fee; work with this architect to develop the stuff, but we are going to bid the whole thing• to get the best pricing. That's common too. Q Is the City of Huntington Beach — have they made any input in this, the development of the site plans? A No. Typically, In fact, cities are pretty strong on not trying to get into that recommendation issue. 52 13 (Pages 49 to 52) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 They're pretty much the response — you send as something, I I 2 we'll respond to it. If they respond positively or 2 3 negatively, you adjust your plan. But it's never like, 3 4 hey, we'd like to see you do this or do that, what have 4 5 you. 5 6 Q The structural makeup of the redeveloped mall, 6 7 that's pretty much it's Ezralow's decision; is that 7 8 correct? 8 9 A Yeah, I guess. I think they still need the City 9 10 to approve it. It is a specific plan. And I think this 10 11 was in the redevelopment area. So you need those agencies 11 12 to review and approve the project. 12 13 Q But I guess the way it works is Ezralow will 13 14 decide on a plan and then they will present that for 14 15 approval -- 15 16 A Correct. 16 17 Q -- to the City? 17 18 A Correct. 18 19 Q And then the City will determine whether or not it 19 20 meets their specific plan 13; is that correct? 20 21 A Whether they like it or not is basically what 21 22 the — the City's a very difficult city. It's one of the 22 23 most difficult to work with actually. 23 24 Q But at this stage, it's Ezralow who's creating 24 25 that? 25 53 I A Right. 2 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 46 another 3 letter of transmittal dated October 5, 1999. 4 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 46 was marked for 5 identification.) 6 BY MR. COHEN: 7 Q Give a description of this. 8 A This is going to Mark Stoner at Edwards Cinemas. 9 So this would be a conceptual site plan we sent This one 10 has a date on it 11 Now my guys are starting to do a little better 12 documentation. And again at the request of Paul Bernard. 13 I'm sure we're talking to Edwards. We were talking to 14 Edwards because Edwards bad an agreement with Macericb 15 prior to Ezralow buying this thing. --So they kind of came 16 along with the project. 17 Q I see. 18 A So once the sale — the sale hadn't happened yet, 19 because this was October. Once, you know, we had — I 20 believe there was a lease signed with Macerich and. 21 Edwards. So we were working with them to — because they 22 had bought off on a site plan, the previous project site 23 plan. And that particular site plan, we were not 24 interested in that site plan at all. It wasn't what we 25 wanted to accomplish back to the uniqueness. It was like 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER everything else, so why bother? So we wanted —'we had to work with them to get them to, you know, a new location, basically the second -story concept. So that's probably the beginning of this whole discussion Q Prior to the Ezralow's purchase of the property, you took a look at the Macerich site plan? A Yes. Q And that was pretty much discounted before purchased? A Yeah, it was not a very good site plan. When we get to it, if you want, we can discuss why. Q Sure. And again, you don't know what conceptual site plan? A We made a better shot here, because we got a date. MR. COHEN: Okay. I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 47. better of transmittal dated October 13, 99. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 47 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Can you give a little description of this? A This is going to Mr. James Rabe at Keyser Marston and Associates. I don't know who they are. Personally, I don't know who they are. Bob sent it out. Agak this Is. a site plan at the request of Doug Gray. 55 Q Could they be a retailer? A I don't know. Because it's this Keyser Marston and Associates, not going to be a retailer. Either going to be a broker or some other consultant that we didn't use or never heard oL I never heard of. So I don't know what their role is — was. Because it's coming from Doug, it probably wasn't necessarily a broker. It was probably some other — could be, you know, could be one of the financing folks because they, Ezralow, had to get their financing in place. So these might have been one of the gays that was doing analysis for the financing package they were trying it get Perhaps. I'm kind of reading into things. Kind of speaking out of tone. Q Do you know if they got their financing yet? A Ezralow? Q Yeah. A I believe they had. Q This was for the pre -development portion of it? A Construction. Q The construction? A Right Q How often do you speak to Doug Gray? A I speak to him about once a week or once every other week. Q That's been ongoing since — 56 14 (Pages 53 to 56) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A Well — Q — May 199? A Right On this particular project, yeah. Q He's the primary person from Ezralow that you speak to? A Correct. Q And how many times a week do you speak to 8 Scott Dinovitz? 9 A I don't personally. I speak to him maybe once a 10 month. He'll call me on, hey, I didn't get this thing. 11 Can you get your gays to do it, because I'm the boss man. 12 Q I see. 13 A He was — Scott was primarily dealing with 14 Jon Veregge. 15 Q Another associate with your firm? 16 A Right. We have a team of about five or seven 17 people that have been working on this project. 18 Q Five or seven people exclusive to this project? 19 A Right 20 Q I know that you identified — of that, that 21 includes Bob Bucci? 22 A Bucci. 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25. Q Bucci? A And Jon Veregge, which are'& two primary other people. And below them are the drafters and the designers 57 and, you know, the worker bees. Q Okay. A Jon above had the contact with the outside world. Q So outside of -- the only people that would contact or be in communication with Ezralow would be yourself, Bob and Jon; is that correct? A Yeah. Q And between you three, you had communications on an ongoing basis with every Ezralow was may of 199? A Yeah, farther, I had communications every day with those two to know what's going on and give guidance, because I'm the primary architect on this project. Q Okay. A Here we go. Montgomery Ward. MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 48 a fax transmittal It's dated October 15, 997. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 48 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this? A Also, could we have some soda brought in? MR. COHEN: Most certainly. You want to take a break. (Recess taken.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Let's go back to Exhibit 48. Can you describe it 58 1 for us? 2 A Okay. This is a transmittal going to Loren Hohman 3 over at Montgomery Ward's. And let's see what was said. 4 We sent them our fax and telephone numbers so they can 5 forward to =- or you may forward them your architectural — 6 this is our kind of a first communication with Montgomery 7 Ward's saying, you know, we're going to be working with — 8 we've been instructed by our client to work with you on 9 architectural looks and design and concepts for the Wards. 10 They have architects. This is the beginning of that going 11 back and forth with them. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q So it was Doug Gray of Ezralow that instructed GFA to begin working with Montgomery Ward's? A That's correct Q Do you know the name of Monkey -- Montgomery Ward's architects? A I do not Bob would know, but I do not. (Discussion held off the record.) MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 49 another fax transmittal dated October 15, '99. (Whereupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 49 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: And this looks like the same transmittal, but it looks like we were sending a copy over to Doug of what we sent to Loren. So this is a copy to Doug of the 59 communication we had with Loren. BY MR. COHEN: Q Sort of a CC? A Right Q Okay. Did you ever speak personally with Loren Hohman? A No, I did not Q Have you ever personally spoken with any of the architects from Montgomery Ward's? A No, I did not That's Bob's role. Q That's Bob's role? A RighL MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 50 another letter of transmittal dated October 18, 1999. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 50 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Can you give a description of what this is? A This is a .transmittal to John Tarts of Tarios Associates.. They are architects that do restaurant work typically. We worked with them on the past on other projects. We're sending them a site plan and elevation for restaurant No. 2. Apparently, they were going to be the architects at that particular time working on that project. Q When you say restaurant No. 2 on this site plan, 60 15 (Pages 57 to 60) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 would that be Exhibit 41; and if so, can you point that 1 2 out? 2 3 A Chances are in October it's not Exhibit 41. Only 3 4 because a lot of these restaurants have been moved over and 4 5 over. Concept was set, but we had restaurants over here 5 6 for a while, we bad restaurants over here for a while. So 6 7 1 can't — 7 8 Q You're pointing towards -- 8 9 A Sorry.. 9 10 Q Let's mark this as "B." What you're pointing to 10 11 is that the Village Strata? Is that known as Villa Strata? 11 12 A That's what we're starting to call it. 12 13 Q Okay. 13 14 A Typically names change a million times in 14 15 projects. And usually at the end somebody says, "Well, 15 16 what are we going to call it?" I call it the streetscape. 16 17 We haven't — if they call it the Village Strata, that's 17 18 nice. It's really the street scene/streetscape. 18 19 Q That's the B section? 19 20 A B section. 20 21 Q I've got a quick question. Let's mark this 21 22 section that I'm pointing at as "C" on Exhibit 41. 22 23 A Okay. 23 24 Q And is "C" an open-air part of the mail? 24 25 A CorrecL 25 61 1 Q Or is that closed? 1 2 A Everything is open air. 2 3 Q But where the section, Section A, where the 3 4 theater is going to be, that's not going to be open air? 4 5 A Underneath that That's correct. 5 6 Q So where this dotted line starts, that's where 6 7 you're going to have the second level? 7 8 A You have it correct. 8 9 Q Now, the plans that you're working up now, how far 9 10 off is it from at least Exhibit 41 or Exhibit 42? 10 11 A Plans in terms of? Define. 11 12 Q The actual — the site plan that you are -- 12 13 A Site plan, 13 14 Q — moving towards to finalizing? 14 15 A Should be pretty close to this 15 16 Q 41? 16 17 A 41. 17 18 Q Not 42? 18 19 A CotrecL. 19 20 MR. COHEN: Okay. Let's move on and mark as Exhibit 51 20 21 fax transmittal dated October 18, 1999. 21 22 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 51 was marked for 22 23 identification.) 23 24 THE WITNESS: This is a fax transmittal going to 24 25 Doug Gray of the Ezralow Company. It looks like we are 25 62 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER sending him a hardline plan with the summary of footages. Here's an attachment. BY MR. COHEN: Q 51 includes an attachment of conceptual site plan No. 1? A That's correct. And the summary. Q And a summary. Let's see how many pages that is. So Exhibit 51 consists of three pages. The site plan and a summary entitled Huntington Crossing. A Which is summarizing all the square footages on the site plan No. 1. Q I see. And on page three of the site plan, Mervyn's, Burlington and Montgomery Ward are indicated; is that correct? A That's correct. I believe they're indicated on the site plan as well. Yup. Q Okay. And this site plan is — they're indicated, I understand. They're indicated right here? A RighL Q And this is Montgomery Ward's existing space? A That would be correcL Q Is this their automotive section? A No. Q That's their automotive — okay. A Which they don't want or don't need. 63 Q It's your understanding they don't care about the automotives? A No, that's correct. Q How did you come to that understanding? A I personally came to it through conversations with Bob and Doug that they were not very interested. They didn't — they — they didn't feel they needed to have this as an out -building. They perhaps were going to put it — again, talking about a new — a new building. Perhaps they were going to incorporate it. But there wasn't any particular need to keep that as a self -standing building. Q So you're looking at page two of Exhibit 51 entitle "Conceptual Site Plan No. L" And you're pointing at the lower left -band comer where the Montgomery Ward's automotive center is as a separate structure? A RlghL Q You're saying they don'treally care about having it as a separate structure? A That's correcL It was our impression, understanding, direction, that they were — that was — we would remove that and put parking there. Q I see. But is it your understanding they wanted to incorporate their automotive facility in a new structure? A I don't know. 64 . 16 (Pages 61 to 64) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINta fON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q You don't know? 2 A I meant we made that assumption, but that may be a 3 wrong assamptim Maybe they were thinking of moving it 4 off site. Maybe they were thinking of not doing it 5 anymotre.. I don't know. 6 Q What's Ezralow's opinion of having Montgomery Ward 7 doing automotive at this new mail? 8 A Well, you'll have to ask Ezralow. My opinion 9 would be that would not be a good thing to do. It doesn't 10 fit with the theme and the nature of what we're trying to 11 accomplish. 12 Q Have you had conversations with anyone from 13 Ezralow regarding the automotive and whether it would tie 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25- into the newly developed mall? A Only to the extent of that's where we get the impression that Montgomery Ward's didn't need that, didn't care it it was gone or stayed. In other words, draw site plan without the tire and battery. You know. They agreed that Montgomery Ward's had agreed they could build a new building. We had freedom to redo that side. Q Who told you to -- who told you to — who from Ezralow told you to draw a site plan that excluded — A It would have been either Doug or Patti. Q And who told you to — who from Ezralow told you to draw a site plan, Exhibit No. 41, which excluded 65 Burlington? A It would have been Doug or Paul. I mean we -- to that point, we drew a site plan without them at the beginning, because it's not the right answer for this site for this project, for this streetscape. Q Uh-huh. A So, you know — Q But they directed you to? A There's lots of times we just draw something. Q In this particular instance, did they tell you to draw plans that excluded or got rid of the Burlington structure? MR. WATSON- We were talking about the auto shop. MR. COHEN: I know. Now we're moving to Burlington. THE WITNESS: I guess I don'tsee it that -- it's not like black and white that way. I don'f know. Maybe this is -- it's not like do it this way. You sit around, say, Hey, what would work? You know, Doug and I definitely talked about whether Burlington fits or not. And we said I don'tthink it fits, that building, the structure. Don't get into the use of the tenant, but the building and structure does not fit in what our vision of the center was. BY MR. COHEN: Q Uh-huh. 66 1 A So we said, Fine, let's draw it without it. 2 Q It was a group decision? 3 A I wouldn't say it's like a directive. I'm trying 4 to make the distinction. I guess that's partly because 5 that's what we do as a consulting firm like, "Here is what 6 I think we should do." 7 Q Uh-huh. Well, do you know whose idea it was? Do 8 you know who it came from? Either the architect or Ezralow 9 to try and do away with it? 10 A Well, like I said, in the beginning we actually 11 did plans -- we did schemes that don't even look like this. 12 We just said demolish anything. Don't try to reuse the 13 existing piles, slab. That is from a money and technical 14 aspect. The decision to reuse the existing pile -supported 15 slab, that kind of set in motion this specific -- this 16 answer. 17 Q You say it was Larry Dinovitz who gave -- who you 18 consulted with to determine whether you could use the 19 existing piles and slabs? 20 A Correct. Right. So what happens, you have a team 21 of people that probably decides. You say, yeah, we tested 22 the piles. I personalty was the one who said we're crazy 23 not to. 24 Q Not to? 25 A Not to use. 67 1 Q Not to use them? Should use them — . 2 A Absolutely, because you have an existing structure 3 that works, it's fine. Putting in piles and a structural 4 slab is a major cost. 5 And the other thing is the site is a three -sided 6 site. You have Center Avenue. Center Avenue is one side. 7 Beach. So there's no — in the retail world there's 8 usually a back of the house, behind the building, the 9 loading. We don't have one. So there was no logical place 10 to — you know, it Center wasn't here, you probably, and 11 the piles were here, you probably would have put everything 12 against Center and faced it towards Edinger. 13 But given all these site constraints, the decision 14 to reuse existing slab and keep it as a center facing out 15 on all sides was in my mind the most economical and the 16 best project 17 Q I see. I just have a quick question. The facade 18 or the structures that will face Edinger and the structures 19 that will face Center, are they also going to have like the 20 Italian village? 21 A Uh-huh. 22 Q How are they actually going to look -- can you 23 describe what is it going to look like, the design 24 renderings? i guess I can mark it as an exhibit. 25 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 68 17 (Pages 65 to 68) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 52 and mark as an exhibit the face page of SP-13 which includes an artistic rendering of what the mall may somewhat look like. THE WITNESS: Right. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 52 was marked for identification.) MR. COHEN: And Exhibit 53 which also includes a picture, an artistic rendering of what the mall may look like. THE WITNESS: Right. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 53 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Now, is that the village strata? Is that section B? A That would be correct. Q Exhibit 41? A That would be correct. The view, the look of the Edinger facade. Q Yes. A On this side of the main cross drive, you would have something looking very similar to these Exhibits 52 and 53 in terms of the look, because we have buildings facing out. On this side, we'll have the rear. Q You're pointing at section C then? 69 A That's correct. Q Okay. Let's move on. A On section B, the — the Edinger facade, that will be the rear of these buildings, but we are going to dress them up so they don't look like rears. They will have articulation and the Italian themed look to it. So you drive by, you wouldn't know that it's the back of the building. Q But it wouldn't necessarily look like individual houses or individualized buildings that the artistic renderings in 52 or 53 have? A They will. Q What about the side that faces Center Avenue? A Same would be true. They will look like individual buildings and small, little shops. Again, back to the concept of trying to do the Italian village, you know, and the scale of these buildings and the look. I mean we have, for instance, this building right here, even though it's one user will look like two buildings. Q I see. A So there's a look that you're trying to break down the scale of these larger buildings into small buildings. Q That's possible? You can have a bigger wall, but make facades that look like they're individualized buildings; is that correct? 70 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A Absolutely. 2 Q Okay. 3 A Everything is possible- 4 MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 54 5 another fax transmittal dated October 18, '99. 6 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 54 was marked for 7 identification.) 8 THE WITNESS: This is going to Doug Gray. It looks 9 like we're sending him a Huntington site plan and Pomona 10 site plan per the request of Paul. 11 BY MR. COHEN: 12 Q Pomona is just another project? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q And the site plans are not attached? 15 A We have no doe what we sent. 16 Q Let me understand how you maybe keep your records. 17 A Sure. 18 Q Are these — would you describe how you would keep 19 your fax transmittals? Is that in a separate file? 20 A Generally, there's one [Ile until the project 21 becomes voluminous where you need to break it apart. On 22 this project we are still in basically the one-Ne stage, 23 because we really haven't gotten into the meat of the 24 project actually for w4 for architects. This is really 25 just conceptual site planning and programing. And the neat 71 1 step, which would be the schematics, that's when you get 2 into our real work.. 3 Q That's the blueprints? 4 A That's blueprints when you start putting 5 dimensions and you pat columns in and exiting, and dealing 6 with the lire department and starting to deal with codes, 7 structural elements. AB life safety issues. 8 Q Air-conditioning systems and — 9 A HVAC, yes. That's where we really start 10 generating the — this typically, this is not unlike every 11 other project we do. Most of oar work product is site 12 plans. Concept site plans trying to get things cooking. 13 And, you know, we generally, depending on the 14 client, some clients want a very specific numbering 15 sequence. Some clients — in this case, they didn't. They 16 said just send we site plans. You know, we don't — 17 because we really only had one project We were focused. 18 As site plans came out, you'll see when we get to site 19 plans. We probably have a numerous amount labeled No.1 20 that look differently. 21 Q Okay. 22 A Personally, I think it's a mistake. But you know. 23 Q Especially when you come to this stage? 24 A Now we're regretting it, right. 25 But it got to this point where we have numerous 72 18 (Pages 69 to 72) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINu rON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 number ones. We have, you know, we don't have a good — we I 1 2 have maybe a good record keeping of what talking and 2 3 sending to, but we don't know as we sit here what specific 3 4 plan was sent to wbo t. 4 5 Q I see. So your correspondence would be kept in 5 6 one file? 6 7 A Uh-huh. 7 8 Q And that just goes chronological? 8 9 A Right. 9 10 Q And then the actual -- 10 11 A Plans are kept in a flat file. 11 12 Q Okay. And that, you didnl bring with us? 12 13 A No, I did not- 13 14 MR. COHEN: Let's move on to -- well mark for 14 15 identification Exhibit 55. 15 16 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 55 was marked for 16 17 identification.) 17 18 BY MR. COHEN: 18 19 Q I guess this is a fax confirmation? 19 20 A Right, this looks like the fax confirmation of 20 21 earlier exhibits. 21 22 Q October 15, '99. Is that this? 22 23 A The one right before that. 23 24 Q Well, okay. This is simply the fax confirmation 24 25 of Exhibit 48? 25 73 1 A That's correct. 1 2 MR. COHEN: Okay. I'd like to mark -- 2 3 THE WITNESS: This is the fax confirmation of that 3 4 Huntington and Pomona that we just saw. 4 5 BY MR. COHEN: 5 6 Q That's this one. 6 7 A October 18. That's correct. 7 8 Q Do you mind if I just put this in back of 54? 8 9 A You may do whatever you want. 9 10 Q This is your notebook. But I think it would be 10 11 easier. 11 12 What I'm going to do, I'm going to put the fax 12 13 confirmation sheet of Exhibit 54 with Exhibit 54, so it 13 14 will be two pages. 14 15 A Jumping ahead, this looks like the same. 15 16 Q. Well just skip over it. Well assume it was 16 17 sent. 17 18 A There's Pomona and this is Huntington. 18 19 MR.COHEN: Well just mark it. Mark as Exhibit 56 19 20 another copy of the fax transmittal, October 18, '99, 20 21 regarding the Huntington site plan and Pomona site plan. 21 22 Exhibit 56 includes the actual Huntington Beach site plan 22 23 and a Pomona site plan. 23 24 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 56 was marked for 24 25 identification.) 25 74 BY MR. COHEN: Q Who came up with the term "Huntington Crossings"? A We have been wrestling with that, wrestling with a name for a while. That probably was Doug. I think he was the one. I was trying to go for the Piazza Huntington, but like I said, these type of things change at the end usually. Wait a minute. Q Like movie titles? A Exactly. MR. COHEN: Well mark for identification as Exhibit 57 letter of transmittal, October 21, '99. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 57 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is thisT A This is going to North West Atlantic. These -- I met with these folks as well. They were — I guess they were some of the financiers they were entertaining getting a loan [from. I don't think this was the group they actually got a loan from, but we sent them a site plan in October. Q And this would be the financiers for the actual — A Construction. Q Actual construction? A Right. I don't believe this is the group they 75 made their deal with. You know, in financing you go to a couple, three or four lenders and see who gives you the best deal. Q Do you know who they went with? A No, I don't. I don't think it was them, though. But I guess it could be. I generally try to stay out of the finance side. As long as they have money so I can get paid, I'm in good shape. MR. COHEN: Exhibit 58. I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 58 a letter of transmittal dated October 21, '99. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 58 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q And what is this? A This is -- looks like a transmittal of current site plan, full-sized plan, going to the Burlington -- I assume it's Burlington Coat, Mr. Bob Grapsid -- Q Uh-huh. A -- per the request of Doug Gray. Q Okay. And again -- A We do have some dates. Q We can maybe pinpoint this? A Right. Q Plus we probably should have them. 76 19 (Pages 73 to 76) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 Have you ever spoken with anyone from Burlington? 1 2 A No, I baven't 2 3 Q Has anyone from GFA spoken to anvone from 3 4 Burlington regarding the project? 4 5 A I don't know. If it was anyone, it would be 5 6 Bob Bucci. 6 7 Q But he hasn't reported back to you of anything? 7 8 A My impression was that we hadn't But — 8 9 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 9 10 Exhibit 59. Linscou Law & Greenspan. This is a one, two, 10 11 five -page document. 11 12 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 59 was marked for 12 13 identification.). 13 14 BY MR. COHEN: 14 15 Q What is this? 15 16 A Linscott Law & Greenspan are the traffic engineers '16 17 for the project And I believe this is like their — I 17 18 think this is the parking. Is this the parking study? 18 19 By the way, Macerich is M-a-c-e-r-i-c-h.. 19 20 This looks like a summary of existing and proposed 20 21 square footage. It looks like they werejust trying to 21 22 confirm what the square footages are and what the uses are, 22 23 because that is what drives traffic trip — drives traffic 23 24 generation. 24 25 Q Okay. 25 77 1 A So probably before they -- right So they were 1 2 trying to get a handle on starting that traffic — set 2 3 traffic and parking set in. So they were trying to get a 3 4 confirmation of here, what we understand exists. 4 5 Obviously in the development world, traffic is a 5 6 big issue. In the existing center, you want to know how 6 7 much existing should have existed And then the new 7 8 development, if you're adding to or deleting from the 8 9 existing, not just parking, but traffic, cars coming to and 9 10 from. 10 11 Q The flow of how they move in and out? 11 12 A Yeah, more importantly how many, how many cars 12 13 The big issue is trip generation, which means how many more 13 14 cars will come to a site once it's developed, because that 14 15 will have impacts on signals, on surrounding 15 16 neighborhoods. 16 17 So in this case, we have an existing mall, granted 17 18 it's not occupied, but if it were, there was already some 18 19 volume of cats coming based on that And then the proposed 19 20 development, you know, were we going to have more or less? 20 21 If it was more, then we may have to do some impact 21 22 mitigation measures to develop roads to mitigate the 22 23 impact That's how the environmental process works in 23 24 California. You have to mitigate your impacts. 24 25 Q So they go beyond just the actual -- 25 78 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A Oh, yeah. Q — shopping center itself? A They may or may not. They usually don't look at the on -site circulation. That's usually the architect's job or engineer's job. We did have a little bit of occasion where they looked on -site because Cal -Trans had a concern of this off ramp and how that might work. So yeah, we have been working with them on this kind of drive loop off the Center Avenue. Q Off the 405? A 405 exit and ooramp. But in general, they're looking at all the intersections and typically traffic study will go a couple, three-mile radius to see what the impacts are. Q In the surrounding areas? A In the surrounding area. And what drives that is square footage. That's how you calculate. Q As far as this is concerned, does this include Burlington being there or do you think that matters in their calculation? A It actually doesn't matter, because you assign a certain amount of cars per square foot of retail. That's how you — retail Is a category. And there's the ITE which is the International Transportation Engineer's manual used 79 nationally. So all uses have a category. So retail is a category. It — Q Some formula? A — says based on this mach square footage, this is how many cars you're going to generate. As long as you get the square footage right of how many retail is going to be there, it's immaterial what the user is. Q Between the two plans of — well, I know between the two plans of 41 and 42, one with Burlington, one without Burlington, is the square footage difference going to be that great? A Not really. Q It's going to be pretty much the same square footage? A I think we got some more square footage. Q On 41? A Right Q That leads me to the next question. I know that the actual shopping center has to allot a certain number of parking spaces, usually based upon the square footage? A That's correct Q Would including Burlington affect the parking availability for, you know, meeting those goals and those needs in the formula? A I'm not sure I understand your question. 80 .1 20 (Pages 77 to 80) 3ILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q Let me rephrase it. If Burlington is included in 1 2 the mall, would there be sufficient parking structure or 2 3 parking facility to meet the proper code? 3 4 A With or without Burlington there would have to be 4 5 sufficient; correR Again, similar to the traffic 5 6 generation, you have to provide X-amount of parking spaces 6 7 per retail per square foot. 7 8 Q Just in my review of 41 and 42, it seems as though 8 9 some of the Burlington existing structure tends to cut out 9 10 some parking spaces; am I correct on that? 10 11 A You are. Well, no, you are correct If you look 11 12 at it — you see the Mervyn's building here? 12 13 Q Uh-huh. 13 14 A Do I need to do this on Exhibit 42? 14 15 Q On Exhibit 42 Mervyn's is actually identified. 15 16 Mervyn's is identified as retail. It's on the north arrow 16 17 by Center Avenue. 17 18 A And if you'll see this, I guess it's the southerly 18 19 edge of this building, it's kind of lined up with the . 19 20 northerly edge of — 20 21 Q A? 21 22 A Trying to give you where that would be. You arc 22 23 correct It does take away some surface parking. You 23 24 know, one could easily increase the number of levels in the 24 25 parldng deck. It's an expense, but — 25 81 1 Q To meet the code, it could be worked out? 1 2 A To that point, yeah. You're not wrong in saying 2 3 that the structure of Burlington takes some parking spaces 3 4 away from this scheme for Exhibit 41. But from my view, 4 5 you have to make the parking count somehow, someway. 5 6 Q And that's possible; that's your job to do it? 6 7 A Correct- 7 8 Q And you can get it done? 8 9 A Correct. 9 10 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 10 11 Exhibit 60 a letter of transmittal, October 21, '99. 11 12 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 60 was marked for 12 13 identification.) 13 14 BY MR. COHEN: 14 15 Q What is this? 15 16 A This Is a transmittal. We're sending a site plan 16 17 to Scott Dinovitz per his request. Chances are this was 17 18 just the current site plan of the day that Scott needed a 18 19 copy of for some reason.. - 19 20 Q Okay. 20 21 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 21 22 Exhibit 61 a memorandum from Linscott Law & Greenspan dated 22 23 October 27, '99. 23 24 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 61 was marked for 24 25 identification.) 25 82 BY MR. CORN: Q What is this? A Again, Linscott Law & Greenspan is our traffic engineers on the project. And actually, this looks like a duplication. MR. WATSON: Same letter it looks like. MR. COHEN: Is it just a memo form of — THE WITNESS: They might have faxed that and this is the original date stamped, yeah. BY MR. COHEN: Q It looks fairly similar. A That's the fax. This Is the original we got. So that's just — sometimes we do good documentation. Sometimes we don't. It looks like we have another. Q With some handwritten notes on it? A Yeah. So it looks like — I don't know if you want to mark this. MR. COHEN: Well mark as Exhibit 62 another copy of the Linscott Law & Greenspan Engineers report with some handwritten notes on it. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 62 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: And it looks like we were clarifying some of the square footages that I assume — I don't know. To be honest, I don't know if that's our handwriting or-- 83 BY MR. COHEN: Q Somebody from — A -- or somebody else's that sent that over to as saying — Q It looks like they're just clarifying the letter. A This is to Scott and to Bob. I don't know exactly what this handwriting means. But there was some number stuff. Again, on the existing land use, somebody was clarifying the typewritten numbers using handwritten numbers. Q Very well. Now, you don't — GFA doesn't really use this report; you're just reporting to — A Correct Q -- Linscott to make sure that traffic flows fit within the code? A Right. On this particular case it's probably Linscott's attempt to confirm with ad the parties to confirm they have the right square footages. MR. COHEN: Well mark as Exhibit 63 a letter which also includes a business card from Geopier Foundation Company Northwest. And it's dated November 5, 1999. It's from Dennis Burnside. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 63 was marked for identification.) 84 21 (Pages 81 to 84) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 BY MR. COHEN: 1 2 Q What is this? 2 3 A This is a sales pitch from — Geopier is a company 3 4 that does some sort of pile foundation system. We've used 4 5 Geopiers on other projects. They're a more economical way. 5 6 Instead of using piles, you can use these Geopiers. And 6 7 they probably heard about the project or perhaps Scott 7 8 called them. 8 9 There's a little example here on the attachment 9 10 showing the sales pitch thing. Here's what you normally 10 11 do. Pile. There's shallow. And there's the Geopiers 11 12 that's going to save you money from driving the piles, but 12 13 still give you the same weight, perhaps. 13 14 Q But in this project right now, you guys are pretty 14 15 much going to use the same piles? 15 16 A Right. We will need to augment. We will need to 16 17 put in new piles because our — imagine, if you will, you 17 18 have a flat slab that has piles in certain locations based 18 19 on the previous projects. We're going to come in and put 19 20 in new structures on those point loads. 20 21 Q They're going to be heavier now? 21 22 A And they may not be in the same location as 22 23 existing piles. If those columns go down and there's no 23 24 piles, we'll have to drive. 24 25 Q I see. At this point, you don't -- you're nowhere 25 85 1 near determining how -- 1 2 A No. 2 3 Q -- the piles are going to set? 3 4 A No, we don't even have a site plan. 4 5 Q Okay. 5 6 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 6 7 Exhibit 64 a letter from the City of Huntington Beach 7 8 Department of Community Development, dated November 20, 8 9 1997. 9 10 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 64 was marked for 10 11 identification.) 11 12 BY MR. COHEN: 12 13 Q What is this? 13 14 A This is a letter, looks like an inner department 14 15 letter actually. No, no, no, this is goingfrom the 15 16 Department of Community Department, Building and Planning 16 17 to Tom Jayred. I don't know who be is. I guess. 17 18 Q Would he be somebody from Macerich? 18 19 A Macerich? Perhaps. At this point in time, that, 19 20 he's probably the on -sills maintenance guy, if I had to 20 21 guess. And so — 21 22 Q Do you know why this would be in your file? 22 23 A Because generally we get copied on a lot of 23 24 stuff. This went to Jayna Morgan at EDAW, who we were 24 25 working with on a specific plan. She probably sent us a 25 86 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER copy. Because it loops like it was received the 24th at EDAW's place, so we ended up getting a copy. And as we look through this — Q But doesn't this predate your involvement? A This is — this is the old project then. Okay. That's what's going on. I know what happened. Q So EDAW gave you — this is everything we had from before? A Here's something that came up, fire department, because one of our roles is to determine fees. So we probably had the conversation, well, do you have any fee estimates from the previous project? And so, EDAW sent over this stag because this is starting to estimate department fees for the building permits. Q I see. You have to estimate all the building permits? A Might. That's one of our roles is how much are the fees going to be, the permit fees. So this is all one. So this is — that's exactly what this is. This is we asked EDAW, you got anything about the fees on the previous project? So they sent over this. Q How many fees are there, like different types of — A Weil, there can be — you know, you can have lots. of fees, depending on your development. Each building will 87 have a building permit fee. And part of that building permit fee will be Are sprinkler fee or what have you. But you have building permit fees, you can have traffic fees, traffic impact fees. That's another thing that comes up. You can have drainage fees. You can have public works fees. I mean, the City's — that's their revenue stream. There's a fee for everything. Q Have you paid any fees yet to date for where you are at this stage? A We — GFA has not paid any fees. Sometimes we do. I suspect we probably paid some sort of application fee for the specific plan. Q Meaning Ezralow would? A Right. Some sort of preliminary planning fee. That's pretty typical. Like the City will go, hey, before we look at your project, there's this pre -application fee. Q Does Ezralow give you money and then you cut out these checks for the fees that you need to pay? A Sometimes. In this case, they have been cutting the checks direct, if there has been any. I tried to — I try to not become somebody's bank. Q No trust accounts for you. A But typically, if there's like, hey, we need this check cut for 500 bucks, if we do, we got n permit. Okay. I'm part of the team, so here, and I'd get reimbursed. So 88 22 (Pages 85 to 88) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 that's how it goes 2 Q Okay. What's your estimate of when development 3 construction is going to start? 4 A I have always been thinking sometime next -- well, 5 I'm going to say next May. 6 Q Next May? 7 A Yeah. 8 Q That's when the first shovel — 9 A Well, let's define when construction starts. I 10 think demolition could start at any time. We haven't filed 11 for demolition permit, but demolition permits are fairly 12 easy to get. 13 And demolition on this particular thing could 14 easily be two to three mouths But given that we don't 15 have a cite plan to start the schematics, I -- my gat 16 feeling was we were filing for building permits somewhere 17 in February or March at best case. 18 Q February or March of 2000 building permits? 19 A That's right. 20 Q Demolition will occur first? 21 A Demolition can. It's up to the owner. 22 Q What's the contemplation now? 23 A This is — it's always a strategy on all 24 projects Sometimes you want to demo sooner. Sometimes 25 you want to demo later. Depends what message you want to 89 1 send. 2 Right now we're holding off on demolition, because 3 all these issues What are we going to do? Demo around 4 people we don't have deals with? You're going to wait, 5 because it's not economical to demo in stages You want to 6 know what's demo-ed, what's not 7 I guess I'd say once we have a solid deal and site 8 plans set with all the parties, that's probably when we go 9 for the demolition permit 10 Q So demolition you think there will take two or 11 three months; that could occur at any moment but the 12 contemplation now is hold oft? 13 A Make sure you have a plan. 14 Q And then you feel by February 2000, March 2000 15 construction could occur? 16 A No, we will be submitting for:building permits. 17 What else after that? Sorry. This the big debate because 18 I've done projects in the City of Huntington Beach before, 19 and typically a building permit could be four to six 20 months City says, no, we're going to move faster because 21 this is a project we want I don't believe it because I 22 hear that from every city. That's why I was thinking May, 23 June, July. 24 Now, we'll probably get partial permits. We are 25 going to separate this project into pods, if you will. 0If 1 lake you said, A, B and C. And we'll do all the plans for 2 B and submit it, and then go hit C or A. To try to do this 3 all in one would be not the tight move. 4 Q Doesn't the specific plan sort of require it to be 5 in one phase? 6 A No, don't mix — 7 Q Dont mix apples and oranges. What's the 8 difference. 9 A Building permits, you can submit each building 10 separately, if you wanted to. 11 Q You're just talking about building permits in 12 February, and you said youll do it in pods, like sections? 13 A Right. That's why I anticipate, you know, because 14 obviously if you own a project, the longer it sits there 15 without revenue, that's a drain on someone's pocket. So 16 obviously you need to get going as soon as possible. So 17 the best way to do that is in pods, plus the Building 18 Department will then just focus on this one pod, because 19 that's the one side. If they get a huge project, that time 20 frame goes oat: 21 Q Do you have any involvement in the owner 22 participation agreement that's being worked out with the 23 City? 24 A No, I know that they were talking about one and 25 that's the extent of our — 91 1 Q Do you know what that is? 2 A I can tell you experieuce. 3 Q Yeah, that's what I want. 4 ' A Some sort of agreement between redevelopment 5 authorities and owners to do some kind of financing or 6 assistance on the city side, typically what it is. 7 Q As far as you know, that doesn't really have 8 anything to do with getting building permits? 9 A No, it never does They're separate entities 10 And in reality, in most projects you're up and built before 11 you finalize the owner or the participation agreement 12 Usually, believe it or not 13 Q The owner participation agreement can come after 14 the actual construction? 15 A It typically is that type of deal. Usually 16 there's a handshake agreement between the parties, but 17 working out all the details usually takes longer than the 18 construction of the project. 19 MR. COHEN: I'll mark for identification as Exhibit 65 20 another letter from the City of Huntington Beach dated 97. 21 THE WITNESS: Right. This is probably all part of 22 that. 23 MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record for a second. 24 (Discussion held off the record.) 25 MR. COHEN: What well do, Exhibit 64, well include 92 23 (Pages 89 to 92) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 all of the City of Huntington Beach letters which I'm going I 1 2 to paper clip. There are one, two, three, eight pages to 2 3 Exhibit 64. 3 4 I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 65 4 5 a fax confirmation of a fax transmittal from GFA to Mark 5 6 Pitcher (sic). 6 7 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 65 was marked for 7 8 identification.) 8 9 THE WITNESS: Pichell. 9 10 BY MR. COHEN: 10 11 Q Pichell? 11 12 A P-i-c-h-e-I-L 12 13 Q Yeah, what is this and is this enclosed? 13 14 A I don't know. Four pages. Could be. I guess I'd 14 15 have to say, no, it's different dates. I think this is 15 16 just a miscellaneous in transmittaL 16 17 Q Do you know who Mark Michell is? 17 18 A No, I don't 18 19 Q Message 40? 19 20 A For you. 20 21 Q Oh, message for you. Okay. Well move on. 21 22 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 66, Huntington 22 23 Center Crossings, Meeting Minutes, December 2, '99. 23 24 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 66 was marked for 24 25 identification.) 25 93 t THE WITNESS: Right, this is from Jayna Morgan with 1 2 EDAW. Looks like meeting minutes. 2 3 Attendees: Scott Dinovitz. They were confused. 3 4 Said he was with the Ezralow Company. EDAW is Jayna, Alia, 4 5 Khara Covington. Hall & Foreman who's our civil engineers. 5 6 GFA, Robert Bucci. Linscott Law, I guess Keil Maberry. 6 7 BY MR. COHEN: 7 8 Q What do these minutes — 8 9 A They're a meeting on December 2nd. 9 t0 Q Were you present at this meeting? 10 11 A I was not. 11 12 Q Okay. Robert was, though? 12 13 A Right. 13 14 Q Do you know where this was located? 14 15 A Most likely [sour office. _ - 15 16 Q In GFA's office? 16 17 A Year, we were load of meeting central. 17 18 Q Do you normally create meeting minutes? 18 19 A Normally someone does. 19 20 Q Okay. 20 21 A We generally try and get other consultants. But 21 22 yeah, usually there's meeting minutes from meetings of this 22 23 nature. 23 24 Q Would it be every meeting? 24 25 A No, we had a lot of meetings with EDAW and there's 25 94 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER no minutes. Q This was probably — A Siam this was around the specific plan, since it's EDAW writing these minutes, it was probably a specific plan meeting. Q Are all meetings usually held at GFA's offices? A Generally just because we're centrally located. There are meetings, sometimes they have been at the site with people. Various issues. In general, we have the meetings at our once. Q I'd like to just take a quick look at this. A Go ahead. Q Would city officials sometimes come to these meetings? People from the City of Huntington Beach? A Not that I'm aware of on this project. It does happen. EDAW's probably pretty good at documenting who was there. Q They documented the attendees, but on page three it just says project team. A Right, this is the team. Q So the City of Huntington Beach is considered — A Part of the team? Q Yeah. They just put it in there? A They just did it that way. Remember EDAW has been. the City's EIR — EIS consultant for many times. 95 Q They11 just include them? A I think it's because of their relationship with the city. We don't actually particularly care for them as a consultant, but that's a different issue. But they do do 99 percent of the City's work. Q Who pays for — do you know who pays for EDAW? Is it the City or would Ezralow pay for that? A The way it typically works, and I don't know how it works in this one, but typically the applicant has to pay, but the City contracts with. That's kind of how it works. In other words, the intent is to get an unbiased opinion, but the City doesn't want to incur the fees, because it's really not the City's project Typically they contract We did another project in the City of Huntington Beach, and it was just like that You also have a EIR consultanL They contract with the City and oar client paid the City the fee. Q But you don't know how — A I don't know in this particular deal. Scott really played the — Scott Dinovitz played the key person in this project as far as dealing with this stuff. Q Basically Scott Dinovitz is the liaison, I guess, between Ezralow and the City and EDAW. That has been his function? A Correct. Kind of leading the charge on the 96- 24 (Pages 93 to 96) 7ILICI & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINcstON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 entitlement& Q The entitlements? What's the definition? A I'll define that to a second. He was leading the charge on the specific plan. Entitlement is a term we use for all these discretionary permits and approvals. So when you receive your entitlement, it means you're entitled to build a project. Now, you still have to go through building permits. There's the nondiscretionary permits. There's a code, there's a law. You comply, they have to issue the permit. Q Like fire stuff? A Right. But discretionary are the CUPS, conditional use permits, things which Planning and — Planning, City Council, whatever can have discretion to approve or disallow your project Q Now, on this project is there going to be — there has to be CUPS for this project? A I believe that's the case. That has been aw issue. For a while, we weren't going to have one. We're just — you can do it, but the law allows you to do everything in a specific plan. If you want to be so specific that you don't have to do a conditional CUP. Q It becomes a CUP? A Basically. I think we wrestled with the way. And 97 we wanted to get a specific plan approved quicker, sooner than later. And so, therefore, it was advantageous to break out the CUP requirements into a separate CUP process. Q I see. A I currently don't know where the thinking is. Actually, Scott has really been that charge. We really have been playing a support role to that Like I said, Hey, I need this document. I need this plan. I need this document. He has all the contact with the City. But those are the things that go on. Q Because SP-13 includes three, actually, conceptual plans of which two are 42 and 41. This would be, in your opinion, probably insufficient to be used as a CUP? A Yeah, typically. A CUP is typically a much more detailed — that is also — CUP guidelines are regulated on a city -by -city basis. So the City will say, Hey, for a conditional use permit, we want to see these items in this detail Some cities will be fine. That's what I'm trying to say— Q In your experience, what is Huntington Beach? A I would be surprised they would be fine. They are pretty detail -oriented. Q I'd like to turn to Exhibit 66. The issues discussed. It says the team was directed to proceed with 98 1 the December 1 plan. This specific plan? 2 A Uh-huh. 3 Q One. Who gave the direction? Who do you think 4 would give that direction? 5 A I would say probably Scott. 6 Q Scott Dinovitz? 7 A Yeah. 8 Q On behalf of Ezralow? 9 A Right. Well, I don't know that. I would just say 10 Scott gave the directive. I'm not going to put words in 11 his mouth either. But just because, like we were saying, 12 he's taking the lead charge on a specific plan. Everyone 13 else is a consultant. And someone's got to direct him. He 14 was playing the director, I assume. 15 Q Do you know the name of Scott Dinovitz's company? 16 A I think we come across a transmittal with the 17 corrected stuff later on. 18 Q Is his father Larry Dinovitz part of that company? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Is it separate? 21 A Partof. 22 Q Scott DinovitzW 23 A Correct, they're all one. 24 Q Now, also — 25 MR. WATSON: You weren't at this meeting, right? 99 1 THE WITNESS: No, I was not. 2 BY MR. COHEN: 3 Q Were you — was this reported to you at all by 4 Robert Bucci? 5 A That we had a meeting? 6 Q Yes. 7 A Yes. 8 Q And he told you what would happen? 9 A Right. Kind of went over the highlights and 10 here's what we need to do and who's doing what and stuff 11 like that. 12 Q Okay. And it mentions here the CUP will include 13 the alternative plans with different assumptions from 14 Montgomery Ward. First, what do they mean by the CUP? 15 A Conditional Use Permit. 16 Q But has a CUP actually been — 17 A Generated. 18 Q Yeah, been generated? 19 A No, that's. why I'm hesitant, because I don't 20 know. And we might have gone in the direction of not do 21 the CUP and do it all in a specific plan. That's something 22 between the applicant and City. They decide how we were 23 going to process this thing that I don't know. 24 Q Do you think that might be being discussed in the 25 OPA process? 100 25 (Pages 97 to 100) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 A OPA being? - t 2 Q Owner Participation Agreement. 2 3 A I don't thing. It shouldn't be. Because those 3 4 are separate processes. 4 5 Q Now, I can't — do you have the three alternative 5 6 plans? Does that refer to 42, 41 -- 6 7 MR. COHEN: And I will actually mark for identification 7 8 as Exhibit 67 a site plan that's entitled again "'Me 8 9 Crossings at Huntington Beach." But this time it includes 9 10 a big "Wards" name in their existing box, I guess, with t0 11 their automotive at the end. 11 12 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 67 was marked for 12 13 identification.) 13 14 THE WITNESS: Right. I would suspect these would be 14 15 the three alternatives. 15 16 MR. COHEN: Well — 16 17 THE WITNESS: I'm hypothetilyang (sic). 17 18 MR. WATSON: I was going to say there's no date on 67 18 19 or 41. 19 20 BY MR. COHEN: 20 21 Q I was going to ask do you know when 67 was created 21 22 or prepared? 22 23 A I do not 23 24 Q Do you know — were you involved in the 24 25 preparation of this? 25 101 1 A Yeah, in terms of looking at it. You know, like, 1 2 hey, yeah; I think that will work or we -- the thing was we 2 3 had an issue with trucks back here and the parking deck 3 4 and, you know, this is their existing footprint, so this 4 5 was "leave them as is," including their tim and battery 5 6 installation deal. 6 7 I mean I am not involved on the daily 7 8 modifications I'm involved more on a, hey, we were 8 9 thinking about -- you know, like, if they're going to 9 10 change a user or a footprint of one of these small 10 11 retailers, no, I'm not going to be involved. 11 12 If they're going to say Montgomery Ward is going 12 13 to stay as is versus a new plan, yeah, I'm going to be 13 14 involved, to give you a sense of the level. 14 15 Q So you were — so you would then have been 15 16 involved in the creation of Exhibit 67? 16 17 A In direction, yeah. 17 18 Q Do you remember.— do you have some sort of 18 19 recollection as to when you first saw 67 -- 19 20 A I don't 20 21 Q -- roughly? I don't want you to guess. 21 22 A No. I mean it's going to be somewhere in January 22 23 or February or December. 23 24 Q January, February, December 2000? 24 25 A This past December. 25 102 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q Oh, December 199, then January 2000? A Might have been a lot earlier. Q When you say "earlier," you mean — A It could have been November, October. Q So earlier in '99? A Right Q It could be older? A Right Q But roughly, how long do you think that this Exhibit 67 has been in existence? Six months? eight months? A Six to eight months. How about that? That's my best guess Q You don't think it was created in April or - A Not that I'm aware of Q April of 2000? A Not that I'm aware o4 no, because I know we worked with Wards with this little dinky thing here when they were involved. Q What is this? A See, this is their existing garden center which they're not using. So this was like some sort of entry element we were discussing with them. We were going to do the elevations with them. What do we do with that? And. you know, chances are it's probably fairly old, bemuse I 103 think the redoing of building Wards a new building came after dealing with them on keeping the existing one. Q I see. A Because the existing one was giving as grief. What are you going to do with this? We have some track problems back here. That's when I heard Wards say, hey, if we need to build a new building and we can put the theater over and stuff, that's fine with as too. We don't have a problem with that But I suspect this is actually one of the first ones where we include Wards. Q Do you have any subsequent ones that includes Wards, that specifically includes Wards? A In an as -in condition? Q Reconfigured. A We've always looked at these. Q As reconfigured? A Yeah. At that time we were just talking about a box. Q The facade which goes around this — A Correct. Q -- and it would look like individual buildings? A That's an area where we had a disagreement Their architect put the basic big box which didn't fit with the individual building issue. That was also a point we got to 104 26 (Pages 101 to 104) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINu rON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 kind of a stalemate in desip. We're going to upscale. We I 1 2 get the devadoa, like, well, you're here and we're here. 2 3 Q Right. Where are you at this point? 3 4 A Right now, I mean again communication has stopped. 4 5 Q So the total — what's the estimated square 5 6 footage of the project? 6 7 A I think right now just in that 900,000. 7 8 Q 900,000? 8 9 A Right. But we are, as indicated here, we 9 10 proceeded to get the — we want to get the entitlement for 10 11 a million, one. 11 12 Q I see. 12 13 A Because if you're going through the process of 13 14 approvals, you want to do it at once. You kind of over 14 15 estimate, and you know we have a plan that shows that 15 16 million, one. And that's like building over everything 16 17 again. You can — again, you can always build more above 17 18 it and stufE 18 19 Q Do you have any three-story designs right now? 19 20 A As I was saying, on the million one, we had 20 21 indicated there would be — the million one would go up, 21 22 not out. 22 23 Q I understand. What's the likelihood of a million 23 24 one? 24 25 A Unlikely. 25 105 1 Q What's the likelihood of having three-story, you 1 2 know, having at least some portions of it being three 2 3 stories? 3 4 A Depends where it's at. The theater, this, what 4 5 was it? Sorry. I can do this right here. 5 6 Q We're looking at 42. 6 7 A Area B of 42. That structure in itself is a 7 8 fairly large structure, because you've got a single level 8 9 and a theater which you're going to do stadium seating. 9 10 It's going to be 20,30 feet, too. So this is a large — 10 11 but this is our focal point Everything else has to be 11 12 lower. That's the whole — we're putting — I don't know 12 13 if it's anywhere in these plans, but we're talking about 13 14 putting a big glass dome. 14 15 Q It's shown. On a capitol -looking thing? 15 16 A Yeah, that's our focus. — 16 17 Q I think this is it on Exhibit 53. Is that it? 17 18 A Yes, there you go. That's a big, glass dome that 18 19 sits right over that vertical transportation escalator. 19 20 This box which is, you know, yeah, that's probably a 20 21 three-story structure in anyone's mind, but it's not It's 21 22 two, but the theaters themselves are double height, because 22 23 it's the stadium seating. 23 24 Q I understand.. 24 25 A Okay. But this is the focal point, so everything 25 106 else has to be less, because you're trying to draw your eye to this. Q Meaning? A Mass. This main mass. Q Section A, Burlington structure, I believe, is three stories? A That's correct: Q So? A That's a conflict. Q That's a conflict. Preferably they would like to have the theater being looming over? A Predominant, yeah. Q What's the feasibility of just cutting off the third story like design -wise or construction -wise? MR. WATSON: Tldrd story of the Burlington? MR. COHEN: Of the Burlington. THE WITNESS: Well, again, anything can be done. But that building, part of the problem there is the codes. It would be much more economical to just demolish the whole thing and build a two-story building than to cut off the top. BY MR. COHEN: Q Did that building require code upgrades? A Oh, I'm sure it does. Q If this project goes forward, it's going to =. 107 require -- A If this building stays — Q Yes. A -- it will definitely require. Ailthese buildings are way outdated. Q You don't know that for sure, but you're assuming that? A I am making an assumption. And definitely, if you were to cat a story off of it — Q That would affect the structural integrity of the building? A While the Code requires if you touch more than 25 percent of the building, you would have to bring it to code. Q That's my next question. The Burlington, the Burlington structure, would that be considered a separate structure, meaning let's say -- A It can be or — ' Q -- that would be up to the City? A City determination, that's correct. Q BuY-- A If you ask me, I believe today it's somewhat integral to that mall, but it's probably the freestanding structure. Q So it's possible that although all the surrounding 108 27 (Pages 105 to 108) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A V&itext Company- 800.649.8787 - 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 buildings may be raised and rebuilt, that? A RIOL Q The Burlington structure being a free standing structure may not require upgrades or the City may -- they may not be forced to make code upgrades, because it's just a freestanding structure; is that correct? A Your assumption is correct; however, that city, I don't think you'd get that approved. Because here, if you put yourself in their shoes, you got a brand new center, and they're going to have an outdated, not -meeting -code building in the middle of it? I don't see that happening. Q Okay. A I'm just expressing my 12 years of building. If I was a building official, I would not accept it. And I would enforce that by making the interpretation that the whole thing is 25 percent, and make them do that. Q Have there been any discussions regarding that with the City? A No. We don't know what we're keeping and what we're demo-ing. Q Okay. Let's move on to -- it looks like this is just another copy. A Probably. Yeah. This is just another copy. Yeah. 25 Q So well include the second copy just as part of 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24. 25 109 Exhibit 66. MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification Exhibit 68. A letter from EDAW dated December 7, '99, to Scott Dinovitz. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 68 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: This is a — to Scott from Jayna Morgan at EDAW. She is requesting a list of items that she needs to complete the specific plan. So again, Scott's playing the central point person. BY MR. COHEN: Q And this was basically correspondence regarding the preparation of the specific plan? A Correct Q I guess they're calling it the -CUP, though? A .That's what I'm thinking. Q Not CUP. A Right. MR. COHEN: Well move on. We'll mark for identification as Exhibit 69. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 69 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Is this the same thing? A No, this is a letter -- this is from the old 110 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 project 2 Q Okay. 3 A This is from — dated December 7,1998, to Tom 4 Jayred at Macerich from Jayua. 5 Q What would GFA take out of this letter? 6 A I don't know why we have it. No, I don't know. 7 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 8 Exhibit 70 a letter of transmittal dated December 9, 1999. 9 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 70 was marked for 10 identification.) 11 BY MR. COHEN: 12 Q What is this? 13 A This is a transmittal. We were sending a site 14 plan to Bryan Ezralow of Huntington Center. 15 Q And you don't at this point know what revised plan 16 he's talking about? 17 A We don't know. 18 Q This is the same thing. 19 A No, it's the same day, but it looks like we're 20 sending one to Doug and one to Bryan. 21 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as 71 another transmittal 22 dated December 9, 1999. 23 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 71 was marked for 24 identification.) 25 / 111 1 BY MR. COHEN: 2 Q This time the revised site plan is being sent to 3 Doug Gray? 4 A Correct. There's another riser we were working 5 with. 6 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as 7 Exhibit 72 a letter of transmittal dated December 10, 1999, 8 to Bryan Ezralow. 9 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 72 was marked for 10 identification.) 11 BY MR. COHEN: 12 Q What is this? 13 A This appears we're sending him a color plot which 14 could either be a site plan or an elevation. Chances are 15 it was probably another elevation, but could be another one 16 of the Bed, Bath and Beyond. 17 Q What s the difference between a site plan and 18 elevation? 19 A Site plan is the view looking down on the center, 20 whereas, the elevation is the view looking at the facade of 21 the building. 22 Q I see. So you would be more interested -- 23 A I generally think it would be the look, but it 24 could have been the site plan. 25 Q Where is Bed, Bath and Beyond? 112 28 (Pages 109 to 112) JILIO 8c ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A They have come and gone. Q They're gone? A They have come and gone. They may be back. Q Where were they going to be? A We were — they were talking about patting them — Q Let's look at Exhibit 42. A Okay. Q And well mark it as another section C, maybe? A C. MR. WATSON: We've got C, don't we? MR. COHEN: No, that's on 41. MR. WATSON: Okay. THE WITNESS: 42. We were contemplating putting them in the C place, which is at the comer of Edinger and Beach. And actually, on Exhibit 41, the other location would have been next -door to Mervyn's. BY MR. COHEN: Q Okay. Let's mark that as exhibit — it's Exhibit B you're pointing at, and well mark it as section D. A We do have a 35,000 square -foot user we can put 21 there. 22 Q And I did have a question on that. Why did this 23 change from 41 and 42? It seems like you had -- I don't 24 know how many square feet. You just said section D. But 25 on 42 you kind of broke it up into little boxes. Is there 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 113 any particular reason why? A Well, you need -- one needs to have all these little shops. And with the Burlington building there, that prohibited putting all those shops there. So we had to put them somewhere. So we led them up to the Mervyn's. Q What shops would be moved? A All these little, tiny buildings. Q Okay. I see. A Because that's that courtyard. Q You're pointing now to section C of 41. Now, in 42 -- I guess let's mark this section. Well, is this going to be on the second floor? A No, that would — Q Section B? A B is. Q B is a theater. _ - A RighL Q I guess these little shops are underneath B? A Correct: Q And that would be at -- A Grade. Q -- grade level? A Right. Q I see. And it wouldn't be open-air? A Yes, it would be. The dash line of B comes right 114 1 to here. This would be open to the sky. 2 Q Okay. it is part of the open-air -- 3 A That's the problem with the Burlington building. 4 Q What is? Spell it out. 5 A It's in a bad place. You really don't want to 6 have these shops going down to Mervyn's, and Mervyn's 7 doesn't need an access point. So this is an ideal place 8 for some other larger building, other larger tenant like 9 we're talking about. So you kind of back yourself into 10 this. Well, this is a perfect place to do the courtyard 11 and all the little shops for eating at the movies and 12 stuff. Their building's right there. 13 Q Okay. Well move on to -- those are the issues, 14 right? 15 A Yeah. 16 MR. COHEN: Well mark for identification as Exhibit 17 73 a letter of transmittal dated December 10, 1999. 18 (Whereupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 73 was marked for 19 identification.) 20 THE WITNESS: This is a -- we are transmitting 21 information, basically a site plan, to Robert Englekirk. 22 They are structural engineers. So we are starting to -- we 23 note structural engineering is a big issue because of the 24 piles and all that stuff, so we are starting to get them 25 involved at this point in December. 115 1 BY MR. COHEN: 2 Q How do they differ from Larry Dinovitz? 3 A Larry Dinovitz is a consultant with basically no 4 professional education or licensing or at least 5 construction management like a superintendent or a 6 constractioa project manager that, in the field, you could 7 be one. 8 Q Okay. Not a good one. 9 A Well, you'd be surprised. Structural engineers, 10 you know, they are licensed professionals, practicing _ 11 engineering. 12 Q Would Larry Dinovitz work with these people? 13 A Yes. They would work with them in terms of can we 14 do this, that and the other? And they're going to say yes, 15 no, or maybe. 16 At this point in time, we were demolishing 17 everything except for Mervyn's. 18 Q Why were you guys going to keep -- why are you 19 guys going to keep Mervyn's? 20 A Well, It's a good tenant in terms of — again, one 21 thing you look at is what is the goods? What is — you 22 know, soft goods makes sense. Mervyn's is a good deal. 23 I think we would jest as soon get rid of them 24 personally, but that -- to keep it, that's a Doug Gray. We . 25 want to keep Mervyn's as a tenant. They're a good tenant 116 29 (Pages 113 to 116) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 I to have, their credit, everything. 1 2 Q Doug Gray sort of made a decision to keep them? 2 3 A Right I mean, to be honest, as opposed to 3 4 Montgomery Ward or Burlington Coat, they really don't fit 4 5 the type of goods and high -end image we're trying to make 5 6 the center. They're more on a low -end image. 6 7 Q How do you know that? What makes you come to say 7 8 that? 8 9 A I guess that's the 12 years in the business 9 10 experience. I've done shopping centers. Done them with 10 11 Burlington Coat at other centers. And Montgomery Ward. I 11 12 mean, you look at the clientele that goes to them. Kind of 12 13 like comparing a Walmart to a Target They have different 13 14 clientele. So you look at the goods draw a certain type of 14 15 clean tell. Mervyn's draws differently than Montgomery 15 16 Ward and Burlington Coat 16 17 Q in your opinion, do you think Burlington Coat 17 18 draws a higher -income clientele than does Mont - when you 18 19 say "clientele," are you talking income? 19 20 A Customers. 20 21 Q Are you talking like income base? 21 22 A Yeah, I guess that's probably what it boils - 22 23 let's keep it to the Walmart Target conversation. That way 23 24 we don't offend anyone. 24 25 Q We're offending people right now. 25 117 1 A Yeah, you get a different - yeah, you get a 1 2 different economic base set of people going to these 2 3 different places. You know, my personal opinion, I don't 3 4 think there's much difference between Burlington and 4 5 Montgomery Ward in that clientele, but there is a jump to 5 6 the people that go to Mervyn's. 6 7 Q And you say this just from your personal 7 8 experience as being a shopper? 8 9 A As being a shopper and also as an architect 9 10 developing centers and seeing how certain centers are 10 11 successful and certainly aren't When the mix is not 11 12 right, the center is not successful, and that's kind of 12 13 what drives this issue of what the mix is, mix of users. 13 14 MR. CORN: We71 mark as Exhibit 74 another letter of 14 15 transmittal dated December 10, 1999-=- 15 16 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 74 was marked for 16 17 identification.) 17 18 BY MR. COHEN: 18 19 Q What is this? 19 20 A This is a transmittal going to Ralph Czitrom, I 20 21 guess, of Bed, Bath and Beyond. And we're sending them the 21 22 plot of the - color plot of Bed, Bath and Beyond in 22 23 Monterey Park where we were working with them. It's a 23 24 separate center. And one in Huntington here. 24 25 Q Do you know why they backed out or why they're on 25 118 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER the back burner? A No, I don't. I don't. My guess would be economics. But - Q Cost per square footage? A Yeah. In other words, we want the rent for a certain amount. They wanted to pay less. This is all big game. You know, you go out, you get as many users as you can, and you see who's going to pay the rent, who's not. You play hard ball until you till it up or not. Q Does GFA, are they involved in determining what the retail square footage rate should be? A No. That Is totally - that one I stay out of. Q Who? A That would be Doug and Paul, the owners. Q But I guess would you tell them how much it costs per square foot to build? And do they base - A Right We do give input on construction costs. Q From that they might determine how? A I think it's a factor. I mean it's like your house. It doesn't cost nearly what it's worth. You're paying for these intangibles. Market value is next I guess that's what - Q What's the estimated cost of construction for this? A God, I think we were - I thought we were in the 119 50 to 70 million mark, but I have not kept up with that That, you know, just like the specific plan in Scottsdale, we left the costing to Larry, Larry Dinovitz. So he's the - you know. I just - I either hear, yeah, or in budget, we can do it or not. Q But you come up -- GFA comes up with the architectural design thing, and then Larry then would take that design to various - A Contractors. Q -- contractors, then they place a bid on it? A Get some pricing on it This is a unique center. If we were doing a shopping center anywhere, I could spit off what it should cost. But this is unique in all of this detailing. It's substantially more than I know. And two stories, a different issue. All these issues, the piling, existing structure. You can't apply your rule of thumb costing to a project of this. Q X dollars per square foot? A Right. Q Okay. You've got to talk to some Vegas contractors. A Actually, we went over to Vegas. We did that Q I mean it's like Paris Hotel or something? A A lot of these exterior things are just like Vegas stub As much as I'd like to put real stone in here, 120 30 (Pages 117 to 120) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLIK -(ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 that's not going to happen. 1 2 Q With concrete stamping and everything it works. 2 3 A Year. 3 4 Q Okay. Exhibit 74. 4 5 A This was going to Bed, Bath and Beyond. 5 6 Q Is this attachment to it the Huntington Center? 6 7 A Yeah, I bet Yeah, this is. That's — again, 7 8 we'll work on a corner. So here that's probably Bed, Bath 8 9 tight there. 9 10 Q Okay. Originally, you said that on Exhibit 41 you 10 11 thought they might be D on Exhibit 41? 11 12 A I said I think we were — 12 13 Q Oh, contemplating these two areas? 13 14 A Right See on Exhibit 42. 14 15 Q That's right. 15 16 MR. COHEN: Well mark as Exhibit 75. 16 17 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 75 was marked for 17 18 identification.) . 18 19 THE WITNESS: Actually, this is that fax transmittal to 19 20 this guy, Mark Picheli, which that was the — what do you 20 21 call it? Saying that he got it. This is the original we 21 22 sent. And that was the confirmation fax. We still don't 22 23 know what it is. 23 24 BY MR. COHEN: 24 25 Q Maybe that's in the back. Is he part of Linscott 25 121 1 Law & Green (sic)? 1 2 A Does it say how many pages? Four. No, that's 2 3 just a one pager. I would suspect not 3 4 MR. COHEN: Okay. Then well mark as Exhibit 76 a 4 5 letter of transmittal from Linscott Law and Green (sick 5 '6 dated December 15, '99. 6 7 (Whereupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 76 was marked for 7 8 identification.) 8 9 BY MR. COHEN: 9 10 Q What is this? 10 11 A This is their letter of transmittal to 11 12 Scott Dinovitz, sending a copy of the Edinger Avenue 12 13 Precise Plan. And he sent as two copies. That's a weird 13 14 way to do IL 14 15 Anyway, we got a copy because we needed to see the 15 16 precise piaa for Edinger. Thin is — a precise plan for 16 17 Edinger has been in place for a while now as part of the 17 18 original plans with Macerich which is a widening of 18 19 Edinger, getting a bus stop, all this. A separate 19 20 document, precise plan, for this scope of work from Gothard 20 21 to Beach. 21 22 Q I see. Is that still going to happen? 22 23 A Yes, it's a condition of this project 23 24 Q I see. It's Ezralow's putting a condition on it? 24 25 A No, the City has pat implementation of precise 25 122 Plan on this piece of property regardless of owner. Q I see. A Whoever comes in has to implement that (Recess taken.) MR. COHEN: Let's go back on the record. BY MR. COHEN: Q Okay. We discussed Linscott and we discussed what the precise plan was with the Edinger Avenue. A Correct Q I don't know what your answer -- yeah, who would pay for the widening of that street? A The — whatever entity redevelops this mail. Q The City is not necessarily going to pay for it? A (No audible response.) MR. WATSON: I think I can guaranty you they're not going to pay. THE WITNESS: No, my understanding was that was worked out during the Macerich proposed project, the whole precise planning. 'Me way the City works nowadays, they do all these decisions for all these roads. And when owners come in and do something, property abutting these roads, they say, "Here you go.' MR. COHEN: Well mark as Exhibit 77 another letter of transmittal, December 15, 1999. 123 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 77 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this? A This is to Ron Altoon of Altoon and Porter. They're architects up here in L.A. And our client was looking to hire the architects or is investigating, you know, should we use someone else or GFA. We were sending them the site plan and elevations we had for them to take a look at Q Would they be instead of you? A Yeah. Q Okay. A We're all in the same boat Q Now, Altoon and Porter, don't they do mostly like renovations of historical buildings? A No, they build new stuff, too. Just like everything else, this Is per the request of Gary Freedman who works for Ezralow. Q Gary Freedman is part of Ezralow? A Yes. MR. COHEN. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 78 an invoice from Sterling Art. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 78 was marked for identification.). 124 31 (Pages 121 to 124) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 THE WITNESS: This looks like we bought a book. 1 2 American Shopping Center book. Probably used it for this 2 3 project. This is the invoice for it. This is normally not 3 4 in the files, but you get to see it, I guess. 4 5 BY MR. COHEN: 5 6 Q This is just some research materials? 6 7 A Right. Help the design. 7 8 MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 79 fax 8 9 transmittal dated January 3, 2000. 9 10 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 79 was marked for 10 11 identification.) 11, 12 BY MR. COHEN: 12 13 Q What is this? 13 14 A This is — we're sending to Mr. Bryan Ezralow a 14 15 sketch of the parking structure behind the Wards buildielp 15 16 And I guess it says Doug's going to bring a hill size. 16 17 He's going to meet with them tomorrow. Whatever that date 17 18 was, we were just faxing or probably faxed, I suspect 18 19 Q How many stories is the parking structure going to 19 20 be? 20 21 A That's unclear. We had an issue with the 21 22 clearance, because there is — what's the best one to look 22 23 at? I'm going to go with this one. 23 24 Q That's Exhibit 67? 24 25 A On Exhibit 67, along Center Avenue, there is a 25 125 1 California Edison easement There's two towers there. Two I 1 2 towers down here. We wanted to do three levels, but the 2 3 third level would interfere with their clearance, so we had 3 4 to cut back to one or two levels. So depending on how much 4 5 parking we need, depends on — and that clearance we can 5 6 get I think we were up to about four levels, but a split, 6 7 you know, two levels and then roar. 7 8 Q I see. Where are the drive-thrus going to be or 8 9 the proposed drive-thru? 9 10 A A proposed drive-thru right here at Center Avenue 10 11 and — 11 12 Q There's a number by it, 23? 12 13 A Yeah, that's the number of spaces. Right next to 13 14 the boxes with the Xs in it 14 15 Q Are those the power lines? -- 15 16 A Those are the power lines Those are the big — 16 17 Q Ne been there. 17 18 A That was the drive-thru. At one point in time we 18 19 contemplated a drive•thru here, but that has gone away. 19 20 That's to be a restaurant And we may — may be one over 20 21 here. We're not sure. 21 22 Q That's by Edinger Avenue? 22 23 A Edinger Avenue. 23 24- Q Are there structures existing now by Edinger 24 25 Avenue? 25 126 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A The only one that exists is the B of A building here. MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 80 a fax transmittal dated January 3, 2000. (Whereupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 80 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this? A This is to Bryan Ezralow again. We're sending Bryan a sketch of the parking structure at the rear of the Great Indoors building. Q What is the Great Indoors building? A Great Indoors building was another user we contemplated in patting in either above Wards or in lieu of Wards. So it was a large boa back here. Q Is that like a Camping World type of -- A No, Great Indoors is a new concept from Sears. And it's — are you familiar with the Home Depot Expo at all? Do you know that — it's basically a design center type of thing where you walk around and see vignettes of kitchen and bathrooms. Q Ne been to Home Depot, if that's what you're talking about. A No, it's not a Home Depot It's an up -scale — it's like a Design Center. There's ready no merchandise 127 for sale. Everything is special order. I'm sure they have drains or whatever. And the reason Great Indoors is interested is because right down the road there is a Home Depot Expo which is their competitor. So people will go back and forth. MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 81. This is paper clipped already. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 81 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Do you know who paper clipped it? A No. Q A fax transmittal January 3, 2000. And it is one -- three pages. What is this? A This looks like a confirmation of the fax of the — the previous ones we talked about In addition, it looks like we actually have perhaps what we faxed Wait a second Q Should that not have been clipped? A Wait This looks again to repeat January 3. Then we have a hand sketch. This would have been — whether it's the new Wards or the Great Indoors is immaterial. It's a new building with a parking structure. At this point, we were contemplating the theater to be over — because I can tell by the stairs and 128 -.I 32 (Pages 125 to 128) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 everything. So at this point we were contemplating a 2 theater to be over some large box, whether it was Wards or 3 Great tadoom 4 Q These are stairs? 5 A These are stairs. That's that vertical to get up 6 to the theater Level. 7 Q I see. Stairs and an -elevator, I guess? 8 A Right. Actually, more likely escalator, elevator 9 and stairs, because it's a good distance. Have someone to 10 walk that would probably be tough. 11 Q Yeah. 12 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 82 a letter of 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25.. transmittal dated January 4, 2000. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 82 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this? A This is going to Larry DinovitL It looks like we're transmitting to him a colored elevation of this center. I would suspect that's for him to start getting on the pricing issue again. Q Contractors — oh, I guess they would want to see what the facade looks like? A Obviously, it was a difference in price, depending what it looks like. 129 Q Who generated the artistic renderings here? A That was done by Richard Sawyer. Q Tom Sawyer? A Right. He's generated all the graphics in here. All the building graphics I say. Q That's 53 and 52 -- A Correct. Q -- of the exhibits? MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 83 a transmittal dated January 5, 2000. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 83 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What's this? A This is going to Jeff Moore of CB/Richard Ellis. Looks like we're transmitting a Ate- plan 0041. I suspect it's -- they're representing some user some way and we're sending them a site plan. MR. COHEN: Exhibit.84. Letter of transmittal dated January 6, 2000. Mr. Brent Harell of CB/Ellis. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 84 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Another? A Looks like it's a different office, because it 130 1 says request of Jeff Moore and Paul, sending them the same 2 site plan. 3 Q Offhand, do you know what site plan 0041 is? 4 A No, I don't. Hopefully we can figure that out. 5 Q But now this is already getting numbered? 6 A Beginning of this — December we started to get 7 serious on the specific plan and started to get serious 8 about tenants, so there was some sort of concept of 9 numbering. 10 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 85 another letter of 11 transmittal. January 6, 2000, to Rick Shoemaker of 12 Sears -Roebuck. 13 (Whereupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 85 was marked for 14 identification.) 15 BY MR. COHEN: 16 Q lust another sending out of the site plan? 17 A On the Great Indoors potential. 18 Q Are they going to — what happened with them? 19 A They will still be interested as far as I know. 20 Q Where, if Montgomery Ward stays, where would 21 they — 22 A In the current plan,•which would be — 41. We 23 could double — we could double deck that building. We 24 could do Great Indoors and Montgomery's doubled right 25 here. We really have anticipated it was one or the other: 131 1 Because Montgomery Wards was -- this was their last 2 facility in the area. And again, we don't know why they 3 just don't call it good and go home, because their sales 4 are not very good in that store. 5 Apparently, what I've heard through the grapevine 6 is they don't want to give up that store for that reason, 7 it's their last beach house- 8 But you know, as you know, in development we do 9 plans. All the time this goes on. Yeah, I own this land. 10 That doesn't matter. We'll draw a site plan and 11 negotiations start. 12 Q How many square feet, do you know -- do you know 13 how many square feet Great Indoors wants? 14 A 130_ 15 Q 130,000? 16 A Yeah, I think you see it on here. 120 here. 17 Sorry. 18 Q 120? 19 A Right. I think Montgomery's was right up there, 20 too, in the new building scenario. 100,1 think. 21 Q Do you know how many square feet the Burlington 22 building is? 23 A Not off the top of my head. I'm sure it's in 24 those calculations. 25 Q Per -- 132 33 (Pages 129 to 132) JILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 MR. WATSON: I can'tread it. 1 2 MR. COHEN: Plus the extra third story. It doesn't 2 3 matter. 3 4 THE WITNESS: By the way, on this plan we had 140 back 4 5 here — 5 6 BY MR. COHEN: 6 7 Q Oh? 7 8 A -- square footage. 8 9 Q Isn't that also -- 9 10 A This is 120. 10 11 Q Oh. 11 12 A This boa, this. 12 13 MR. WATSON: You can see 41 and 42. There's only this 13 14 one. 41 is two parking lots to the left. 14 15 THE WITNESS: In general, the big thing has been what 15 16 we're going to do on this end of the site. And so for the 16 17 record, because I get to say this finally, we don't 17 18 recommend to do anything. We recommend that it be the 18 19 continuation of all this small stuff with the theaters back 19 20 here and get rid of any big box all together. 20 21 We personally don't think, as architects, that a 21 22 large user should be on the site. But that's where clients 22 23 have -- get to do what they want to do. 23 24 BY MR. COHEN: 24 25 Q Okay. 25 133 1 A I mean I was hoping to get like — I really was 1 2 pushing for, like, House of Blues. See, that's — we don't 2 3 need another retailer. We need another piece of 3 4 entertainment to pull, to really make this thing 4 5 successful. 5 6 Q Does GFA do any market, like, demographic surveys 6 7 or anything? 7 8 A No, that's not us. 8 9 Q Have there been my demographic -- 9 10 A I don't know. I would suspect there might have 10 11 been. 11 12 Q What's the proper name? 12 13 A Demographers. And there's a lot of them, I would 13 14 suspect I don't know if they employed anyone or not. 14 15 Some of It now, with the internet, a -lot of the demographic 15 16 information, you can just look up. 16 17 Q Oh, really? 17 18 A Yeah. 18 19 MR. COHEN: Mark for identification Exhibit 86. Letter 19 20 of transmittal, January 7, 2000. 20 21 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 86 was marked for 21 22 identification.) 22 23 THE WITNESS: This is going to Morley Construction 23 24 which is Benchmark Morley. This is a composite site plan 24 25 showing the existing building line versus the proposed site 25 134 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER plan. And this is, again, based on costing issue of, you know, how much of the existing slab can we save. We do have to build new, demolish some. We're conforming to it within 95 percentile. So this was just something that again Larry Dinovitz had requested us to send to Morley to look stuff up, costing stuff. BY MR. COHEN: Q Again, would you know if it was 41 or 42? A I would not know. I would say there was the site plan "du jour" on January 27. That's how much these — if that's an indication, It has that much change. Like maybe not dramatically. Maybe five or ten major schemes. But it's constantly every day Paul would call or Doug would call, hey, we get another user. Do this, do that. It's constantly in motion until this day, even; that's why we're here. Q Yeah. MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 87 another letter of transmittal, January 10, 2000, to James Rabe. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 87 was marked for identification.) 135 BY MR. COHEN: Q Do you know who that is? A No. We mentioned that earlier. We have Marl[ — sorry. Go ahead, introduce the exhibit. MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 88. Mark Pickell. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 88 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: Who we now know is with Mount Holly Partners. And we're sending a site plan to them. BY MR. COHEN: Q But you don't know anything? A I still don't know who they are. Q Okay. Is this the site plan that was sent over to them? A I would assume so. Actually, if you open this up, they go together. Q Uh-huh. Is this an older -- this is the conceptual site plan No. 1, I guess? A This is a really early scheme. This is a really early scheme. This is our point in time we were -- actually haven't even come up with the street design yet Q Uh-huh. Burlington is still gone though, right? A Right Well, again, it's just in the way. At 136 34 (Pages 133 to 136) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.OW BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 that particular dine we were contemplating a truck access I 2 underground, because we had some bigger users in here. And 2 3 here'sthe second level that was sitting — you can see 3 4 that actual Hue that goes to there. See the second level? 4 5 Q That would maybe be the theater? 5 6 A Theater and then some — I'm looking for some 6 7 other — you kind of don't put — in general, you don't put 7 8 names on plans. It might end up in the wrong hands. If 8 9 you put a particular user —let's say you put Bed, Bath 9 10 and Beyond, and for some reason that plan gets to someone 10 11 that's not with Bed, Bath, but their competitor, so you — 11 12 you know, kind of standard of practice is not to put names 12 13 on. 13 14 Q I see. Sometimes you did? 14 15 A Some things. 15 16 Q But not for us. See? And you get in trouble. 16 17 A Exactly. 17 18 MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as 89. Letter of 18 19 transmittal dated January 12, 2000. 19 20 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 89 was marked for 20 21 identification.) 21 22 THE WITNESS: Going to Larry Dinovitz. Most recent 22 23 site plan, along with color rendering. Probably keeping 23 24 him current, because one of our jobs is keep all the team 24 25 managers current, because it's a multi -level client. 25 137 1 You've got construction, real estate, various people. 1 2 Scott and his thing. We're working with Paul and Doug kind 2 3 of in the lead position in terms of the planning end. 3 4 Then, okay, here's what's going on, because they 4 5 don't talk to each other. 5 6 BY MR. COHEN: 6 7 Q The color renderings? 7 8 A That would have been of elevations, I'm sure. 8 9 Q That would have been of elevations? Okay. But 9 10 these are -- what's attached as 52 and 53, those are 10 11 paintings I saw? 11 12 A Exactly what they are. 12 13 Q That would be something different? 13 14 A They're more along these tines. 14 15 Q You're showing page 48 — 15 16 A Right - 16 17 Q- — of the SP-12? 17 18 A Correct. They're scaled colored drawings. 18 19 They're not like you said, paintings. They're all scaled 19 20 drawings.. 20 21 Q "Mat's done on the computer? 21 22 A Yes. Now, these are actually Richard Sawyer's. 22 23 And we also have done our own, because again he's not 23 24 thinking architecture. He's thinking looks. So that's 24 25 kind of the difference. So we have a whole set of our own 25 138 staff like this. This actually may be an artist I'm not sure. We have so many graphics on this project It's voluminous. Q But that's not here today? A No, that's all in — Q Okay. MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 90. (Whereupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 90 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: This is going to Michael Wintheiser. He's at Swinerton & Walberg. That was the second name. Remember the contraaor we were talking about? MR. COHEN: Yes. THE WITNESS: Swinerton & Walberg. And we're sending him again kind of the same thing, current site plan and typical elevations, typical building, to give him a sense of what we're talking about. MR. COHEN: Mark for identification Exhibit 91. Letter of transmittal January 12, 2000. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 91 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: This is going to Norman — care to take a shot at that? MR. COHEN: No, I don4 know it. THE WITNESS: He's with Wards. Looks like.we're 139 sending the most recent site plan on that day at the request of Doug Gray. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 92 a transmittal to Loren Hohman of Montgomery Ward. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 92 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q And I guess sending him the same thing? A You got W MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 93. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 93 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Transmittal to Richard Sawyer? A RighL Q That's of the village strata you're calling it now? A RighL Q Would that be for him to create those renderings? A We were doing the site planning and he was doing the pretty paintings. Q Yeah. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 94 another letter of transmittal, January 14, 2000, to Neil Rosenfield, Blattis Realty. 140 35 (Pages 137 to 140) 7ILIO 8c ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS > A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 94 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: I suspect someone representing some user. Could even be Sears. I mean unlikely, because we dealt with Sears direct. But only reason I say that is because Chicago. But I'm guessing at that. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 95 a transmittal letter, January 14, 2000, to Bryan Eualow. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 95 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: Which is of the village area, current site plan. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 96. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 96 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: This is a letter to Tom Jayred at Macerich from the City. And I guess latest city comments on the draft specific plan submitted December 11, 1998. Must be the old project. BY MR. COHEN: Q Uh-huh. What would you use this for, just to -- A You know, in general, I always like to get all the information on previous projects, because it tends to give you insight to what it might be. So I suspect as time went on, we got pieces of information from -- as various things 1 came up. And, you know, you say, Ob, I got that in my 2 file. Send that over to us. 3 I'm trying to -- this is kind of an interesting 4 version. It does not contain City's complete 5 recommendation for an amortization schedule for 6 improvements. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 141 I'm not really sure what they were doing. Amortization schedule for improvements to the non -conforming structures such as Montgomery Wards, the Tire, Labe and Battery facility, and the bank building. Q I think they still have that problem. I think they want to get rid of that. A I thinks lot of these issues has been prior to Ezralow and prior to everyone. Q Yeah. Not the Burlington issue, though. A No commerat Q It's in our contract. MR- CORN: Exhibit 97, a fax cover sheet from EDAW. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 97 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Can you give it some description? A Dated 1/26/2000. And what have we got, this is meeting minutes for the January 21st meeting. Q Were you present? 142 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A No, I wasn't. This was Fzralow Company, 2 Scott Dinovitz; City of Huntington Beach; and EDAW; and 3 John Veregge with GFA. 4 Q Let me take a quick look at this. 5 A Sure. 6 Q Do you know where this meeting took place? 7 A That, I don't know. Does it say? I would 8 suspect it's at the City. 9 Q Because they — 10 A They were there. City of Huntington Beach 11 generally won't come to anyone's offices. They're unique. 12 So apparently we're still talldng about specific plan and 13 CUP as of January. 14 Q 2000. What is this Jane James asked if a project 15 description has been prepared? 16 A Specific plan or CUP usually requires a verbal 17 description of the project This kind of overviews what 18 we're going to do. 19 Q Who prepares that? 20 A In this case, I think Scott and GFA worked 21 together to help prepare that It's probably this section 22 right here. 23 Q . You're looking at SP-12? 24 A Right 25 Q Let's look at SP-13. 143 1 A Here you write that you got EDAW on there. 2 Q Sort of an introduction? 3 A Yeah. There's usually a project description. 4 There we go. 5 Q That's the description that says high -end retail? 6 A Right 7 Q Paraphrasing what it is. 8 A General development plan. Project 9 Q Who prepared, on page 23 of SP-13, these 10 schematics for new construction and existing to remain? 11 A It would be either EDAW or ourselves. We had -- 12 . this is why I don't particularly care for them. They don't 13 really do anything. 14 In my opinion, we hired a consultant to do work, 15 but they're always like, well, here, send us that, and 16 we'll put it in this thing. So a lot of the work we 17 actually had to do. 18 Q It's possible it came from you? 19 A It's possible it came from us. It doesn't really 20 say here. 21 Q Do you know what this means, "Herb Fauland 22 inquired regarding legislative actions for the specific 23 plan and suggested to.get as much as possible approved 24 ahead of time -- pre -entitled. 25 Do you know what that means? 144 36 (Pages 141 to 144) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00, BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A I don't know what he's meaning. I assume, because 1 2 he's swing to get as mach -- I don't know what that 2 3 means 3 4 This is what he's talking about. Starts up there. 4 5 Q Uh-huh. Would this mean get the conceptual plan, 5 6 then they work out the details with the CUP? 6 7 A Uh-huh. 7 8 Q Do you know if that's going on right now? 8 9 A CUP'" 9 10 Q Yeah. 10 11 A No, we're still in the specific plan stage. 11 12 Q Well, specific plan has been approved, specific 12 13 plan 13? 13 14 A Yeah. 14 15 Q Yeah. 15 16 A Okay. Again, some of it -- some of these details 16 17 I don't keep up with. 17 18 Q Okay. Did you have contact with the other Jane 18 19 James or Herb Fauland? 19 20 A No. 20 21 Q No City people? 21 22 A No, not me. 22 23 Q I understand. Can you give any comment on 23 24 Jane James? 24 25 A Not really. City's been wanting this to probably 25 145 1 happen for a while. 1 2 Q Were you told? Do you know if the City wants to 2 3 keep the existing tenants? Have you had any conversations 3 4 or knowledge of that? 4 5 A No, I haven't had any conversations. 5 6 Q Either way. Do you know if this project needs an 6 7 EIR? 7 8 A I don't believe it does. 8 9 Q Why? 9 10 A Because the impacts — that building, example, 10 11 back to the traffic, the previous project — not even the 11 12 previous project. The existing mall, our impacts are equal 12 13 to or less than the existing mall, if the mail was 13 14 operating fully today. 14 15 Q Uh-huh. 15 16 A So the threshhokl for EIR is that issue. In other 16 17 words, if you don't have any other — if you're not 17 18 increasing hnpacts, then you're not required to do them. 18 19 Q What about height? I guess the height levels 19 20 would remain the same? * 20 21 A Yeah, height's not really, believe it or not, an 21 22 impact in this type of center. 22 23 Q We dealt with one that had a problem with birds. 23 24 A No, I'm not saying height isn't looked at. The 24 25 height issue, It's minor. 25 146 Q Okay. A Because some of those buildings are fairly tall today. I mean the old Bullocks on the end is a pretty big structure. Q How many stories is that? Three stories? A Yeah. I think Montgomery's is two. Q Burlington, you mean? A No, I think it was Montgomery's. Is that two or three? Q I don't know. A Yeah. Yeah, well, Burlington was JC Penny's. MR. COHEN: Exhibit 97 is five pages long. I'd like to mark for identification Exhibit 98. February 1, 2000 letter from EDAW to Dinovitz. (Whereupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 98 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What's this? A You have to go through and establish whether you need an EIR or not. So this is basically a proposal to Scott for that work dram EDAW. Q Do you know if EDAW has said they would need to do an EIR? A It's not EDAW's call. It's the City's call. You have to prepare the environmental assessment fbrm. 147 Q Uh-huh. A And based on that assessment, the City determines if there are impacts that need to be studied or if not. It looks like prior they had issued a mitigated Neg Dec. That's what I thought happened in the old project, Macerich project. They went through the EIR project. They issued a mitigated Neg Dec. AB we have to do at this point of time or this project 6 to bring it curreaL There's no change really. No real scope in terms of square footage. That's really what the issue is. How mach square footage. Traffic is the issue. You're looking at other impacts. There's no residences around. Height of 20 or 30 feet, it's not going to matter. Q And you're not putting it to wrong types of uses? A To some degree the CEQA, it does look at use, but every use on this site is just considered a commercial use because it's — you look at residence or prison or a major category, so this is — they don't — there's really no change of use. This is just a proposal to Scott. Q Exhibit 98 is four pages. A This looks like — Q Is that the original? A Let me see. Maybe. February 1st. No, it's longer text 148 37 (Pages 145 to 148) )ILIO fir ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 MR. COHEN: Mark it as Exhibit 99. Letter from EDAW, 1 2 February 1, 2000, to Scott Dinovitz. Revisions of the 2 3 prior CEQA document, mitigated negative declaration. Same 3 4 topic. 4 5 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 99 was marked for 5 6 identification.) 6 7 THE WITNESS: It looks like they're asking for more 7 8 money, associated with the additional task. 8 9 BY MR. COHEN: 9 10 Q That's why they put an extra paragraph. Okay. 10 11 This is basically also regarding them doing an EIR; is that 11 12 correct? 12 13 A Yeah, it looks like City and Ezrslow draft updates 13 14 of the draft environmentai assessments — Macerich Company, 14 15 they had actually got a CUP as well as part of Macerich's 15 16 deal. 16 17 Q But this project would probably require a new CUP. 17 18 A Yes. 18 19 Q If it's not SP-13? 19 20 A It would be substantially different. 20 21 Q Wel move on. 21 22 A This is all part of proposal and scope of work. 22 23 MR. COHEN: 99 is four pages. 23 24 I'd like to mark as Exhibit 100 another 24 25 transmittal to Charles Bell, Blair Ballard Architecture, 25 149 1 February 2, 2000. 1 2 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 100 was marked for 2 3 identification.) 3 4 THE WITNESS: Sent a copy of the current site plan. 4 5 They're probably architects for some user. 5 6 BY MR. COHEN: 6 7 Q Okay. You don't know who? 7 8 A No. May be the theaters. I thought they may be 8 9 the theater architects. 9 10 Q At this point in the project, you're just not at 10 11 that level — 11 12 A To know exactly. 12 13 Q -- to talk seriously with each of the retailers? 13 14 A No, you're feeling each other out. 14 15 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 101-a transmittal, February 15 16 3, 2000, to Ms. Tma Go at MCG. 16 17 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 101 was marked for 17 18 identification.) 18 19 THE WITNESS: They are architects and they do the Bed, 19 20 Bath and Beyond work. I assume we were sending them over 20 21 stuff with that. Site plan that you requested, tentative 21 22 schedule. Blab, blab, blab. So, yeah. 22 23 BY MR. COHEN: 23 24 Q So when did Bed, Bath and Beyond actually — 24 25 A There you go. We — 25 150 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q I'm going to paper clip the same thing. MR. COIN: Mark as Exhibit 102, EDAW letter from EDAW to Project Team. (Whereupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 102 was marked,for identification.) THE WITNESS: Meeting minutes again. BY MR. COHEN: Q More meeting minutes? A Of the February 1st meeting. MR. COHEN: 103, marked for identification, the fax transmittal, February 10, 2000, to Richard Tom Sawyer. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 103 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: Sending elevations for Circuit City and Mervyn's. BY MR. COHEN: Q They were going to move into Mervyn's? A No, they were going to move. Q D on Exhibit 41. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 104, letter from EDAW. Has an appendix and draft. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 104 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Is this for — what is this? 151 A This is for the probably specific plan for the signage standards. Q Now, is this going to be for the new SPs like the SP-12 or SP-13? Or is this from the old Macerich? A I suspect this is from the old and they sent to John Veregge at our office. Per your request, attached — with City's comments This is probably the new one. EDAW is coordinating with as on — Q -- working out the signage? A Right. Q Okay. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 105, February 21, 2000 letter from Randy Baugh. Enclosed please find site plan. And it includes the site plan. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 105 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Do you know what this is? Who is Randy Baugh? A I don't know who Randy Baugh is. Q Is he somebody from Montgomery Ward? A Not that I know of. Maybe it's — he maybe is with Mervyn's. Keep going. Q Oh, Mervyn's, yes. A Now we're getting closer to Exhibit 41. Q Yeah. Is this all together? 152.1 38 (Pages 149 to 152) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 SURLI ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A It's all one, yeah. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 106. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 106 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: This is to Doug Gray. We're transmitting to Doug Richard Sawer's plan for Circuit City. That's the confirmation fax. MR. COHEN: 107 is a transmittal letter, February 22, 2000, to Ezralow Properties. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 107 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q I guess that encloses a zip disk? A Right. Q Is that a site plan just on the computer? A Right, multi -color site plan in Autocad format. Q Did the colors represent different things? How do you determine? Can we look at your color one? A Sam Q Let's see. I thought you had different colors. Yeah, I'm looking at the color copy of SP-12. Which actually well attach. We're going to want a color copy of SP-12. No, strike that. I'm just looking at a color copy of SP-12. It has different colors. 153 A Right Q Does that represent anything? A No, just a way to help read. Q Just to visualize separation? A Right: Q Okay. A Same date. Q Same thing. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 108 another transmittal, February 25, 2000, to EDAW. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 108 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What's this? A This is from John Veregge. And this, we're sending the specific site plan. This is for the almost a million square -foot deal Two fall size copies. A site identification plan and a CAD disk of each site plan above: This is for incorporation into one of the specific plans. Whatever — . Q . Okay. A Whatever,13,12. Q Okay. A Whatever. We provide a lot of the graphics and documentation. 154 1 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 109, a letter from Linscott 2 Law & Greenspan. A memo dated March 3, 2000. 3 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 109 was marked for 4 identification.) 5 BY MR. COHEN: 6 Q What's this? 7 A This is from Scott Dinovitz. No, to 8 Scott Dinovitz. So they're saying the plan and the square 9 footage don't match. That's pretty much what they're 10 saying there. 11 Q Okay. 12 MR. COHEN: 110, mark as Exhibit 110 a transmittal 13 March 8, 2000. 14 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 110 was marked for 15 identification.) 16 BY MR. COHEN: 17 Q What is this? 18 A This is to Doug Gray. And looks like we're 19 transmitting to him the tint draft of corrections for the 20 specific plan. So in other words, the sequence was EDAW 21 took their best shot and then sent it to the project team. 22 We all had a shot to mark it up and make it right in our 23 opinions, so we're sending our comments on the draft back 24 to Doug. And probably Scott is probably second 25 transmittal 155 1 Q Would that be SP-13, you think? 2 A Perhaps. I don't — 3 Q You don't know? 4 A Yeah, I'm not even sure why we have a 12 and 13. 5 I suspect that — I suspect at that time City wanted some 6 way to differentiate a draft from a final. 7 Q I know there was a number of draft 13s, too? 8 A Okay. 9 Q This is all the same, just to different people? 10 A That's a confirmation fax. 11 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 111 a fax cover sheet from 12 Ezralow Retail Properties to Bob Bucci from Lori Fox. 13 RubWs floor plan. 14 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 111 was marked for 15 identification.) 16 BY MR. COHEN: 17 Q What is this? 18 A I guess we're starting to work with Rubio's so 19 they send over what they'd like to see. We try to ping it 20 in somewhere. 21 Q Do you know where they're going to be? 22 A They're probably going to be in this food court 23 area here. 24 Q Section C? 25 A On 41. 156 39 (Pages 153 to 156) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 Q 41? Okay. Do you know who Lori Fox is? 1 2 A She's one of the assistants working for Doug and 2 3 PauL 3 4 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 112. Fax transmittal, 4 5 March 20, 2000, to Paul Bernard regarding the Rubio's and 5 6 Pizza. 6 7 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 112 was marked for 7 8 identification.) 8 9 THE WITNESS: So we're sending everything that we sent 9 10 to Rubio's a copy to Paul, so he has it for his records. 10 11 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 113. March 20, 2000 letter 11 12 to Sharon Mc Hugh from Rubio's and — 12 13 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 113 was marked for 13 14 identification.) 14 15 THE WITNESS: We're putting them in that food court, 15 16 yeah. So that would be in one of these sites. 16 17 BY MR. COHEN: 17 18 Q Do you know if they're set up to be in the center? 18 19 A Define "setup.* 19 20 Q They haven't signed anything yet? 20 21 A No. 21 22 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 114, transmittal March 20, 22 23 2000. 23 24 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 114 was marked for 24 25 identification.) 25 157 t BY MR. COHEN: 1 2 Q Do you know what that is? 2 3 A This is to Scott Dinovitz from Bob Bucci. CD of 3 4 all the graphics on the specific plan and just let him know 4 5 we had not reviewed the two addenda to the plan since we 5 6 didn't get them from EDAW. 6 7 Some of this is CYA. Hey, we can't comment on 7 8 something we didn't get. But we're transmitting the 8 9 graphics on CD. 9 10 MR. COHEN: Mark as exhibit -- 10 11 THE WITNESS: This actually isn't for this project. 11 12 BY MR. COHEN: 12 13 Q It's not? 13 14 A No. Graphics work on the Calabasas. 14 15 Q You want to take it out? - _- 15 16 MIL COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 115. Letter of 16 17 transmittal, March 20, 2000, transmitting plans to 17 18 Alan Ackerberg. 18 19 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 115 was marked for 19 20 identification.) 20 21 BY MR. COHEN: 21 22 Q Do you know who that is? 22 23 A I believe because it's Minneapolis. It's -- 23 24 there's another user. What's his name? Hold on. Cole's. 24 25 I believe they're with Cole's Department or related to 25 158 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Cole's which is another user that's been interested in this site. Q How many square feet do they want? A I think 60- to 80,000 foot range. Q What do they deal in? A Like an upscale Mervyn's. They're not in this marketplace. They haven't been; to California. They think they're going to come. They saw — I think they saw this project at Vegas, at ICSC in Vegas, and were interested. We don't have a spot, but you never say "no" until everything's in place. Q Did anyone from GFA go to Vegas? A Yeah, I did. They held a lot of interest actually.. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 116. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 116 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: This is a confirmation fax to court architects. They are architects for Toys R Us people. I think we were talking about Kids R Us with them or — again, same issue, sending them stuff. BY MR. COHEN: Q Uh-huh. How much space are they interested in? A On Kids, actually like 25. Q What's Kids R Us? 159 A Kids R Us is clothing, soft goods. MR. COHEN: I think first one was a confirmation fax of this one. III put it together. Mark for identification as Exhibit 117, fax transmittal, March 29, 2000. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 117 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this? A To Scott Dinovitz from Bob Bucci. And we're sending him mark-ups of the signage exhibit for this specific plan. Confirmation and a duplicate. Q I like that. A I'm trying to save trees and here I got people printing out. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 118, March 30, 2000 letter to Cindy Walker, Lubert-Adler. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 118 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Who are they? A I think they're the architects for Coles. I believe that was the case. They were sending them a disk of the site plan. . MR. COHEN: Mark as 119, letter from Linscott Law and 160 40 (Pages 157 to 160) JILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLINUTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Greenspan Engineers. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 119 was marked for 'identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What's this? A This b the start of what I was telling you earlier about how Cat -Trans cared about what was on site. The ramp design off of Cal -Trans — circle feature needs to be moved here. They're starting to show as Q This is off the ramp? A As this comes in, Cat -Trans had the problem of how does this work because they were worried about people: backing up into their ramp, so we revised that In fact, none of this is actually the current design with that particular issue. We're still wrestling with them, what we like and what they want Blah, blab, blab. This is — here's an example of the real early plan. You can see the street is straight with islands in it versus the curbing. So again, we wrestled over this area for months, back and forth, back and forth. Same concept, but we probably got 20 different versions of — Q Uh-huh. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 120, letter of transmittal, April 7, 2000. 161 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 120 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: This is to Scott Dinovitz from Bob Bucci, and we're sending him a zip disk of Burlington, alternate plan. BY MR. COHEN: Q Would that be Exhibit 42? A That could possibly be that Q Do you think? So this was created maybe in and around April 2000? A Most likely. Q Do you know why it was created? A No, I don't Q Somebody said give us one with Burlington in there? A Probably: I suspect becaaseeveryone was having a big beartache about doing the deal. They said okay what does it look Woe it they keep them? . MIL WATSON* Do you know if Exhibit 42 was the attachment to 120? THE WITNESS: No, I don't know that. BY MR. COHEN: Q We'd have to go back to your -- A Well, if we — the way they get it, it would go to Scott, because we just made a copy of something and put it 162 1 on the zip disk and sent iL 2 Q You don't even have a hard copy of it? 3 A R*11L Not even knowing — I don't have a trail 4 what was on thaL 5 Q Now, you said there might be two or three 6 conceptual design plans that include Burlington? 7 A Early on, when we were looking at it, we said that 8 it doesn't 13t. 9 Q But the only one that is being contemplated is 10 42? Is this the most recent, is Exhibit 42 the most 11 recent, current Burlington design plan? 12 A That, I don't know. I don't know, because this 13 is — the reason I say that is there's elements in the plan 14 like probably — I don't know. That, I don't know. It 15 could be. It probably is the most recent, just because we 16 all have it, and it's dated May 22, 2000. 17 MR. WATSON: Let's take a short break, if that's okay. 18 MR. COHEN: Slue. 19 (Recess taken.) 20 MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 121 an 21 April 7, 2000 letter of transmittal to Paul Bernard. 22 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 121 was marked for 23 identification.) 24 BY MR. COHEN: 25 Q This is just showing Circuit City plans; is that 163 1 correct? 2 A Yeah; showing Circuit City parking enlargements 3 Two copies of same at 30 by 42. We were sending something 4 about Circuit City's parking. 5 MR. COHEN. Mark as Exhibit 122 a confirmation of 6 April 7, 2000 transmittal. 7 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 122 was marked for 8 identification.) 9 THE WITNESS. To Scott Dinovitz from Robert Bucci. 10 It's all together. This is where they were summarizing the 11 parking count, because the parking count is important in a 12 specific plan. These are split in half. 13 BY MR. COHEN: 14 Q This is all together? 15 A Yeab. 16 Q What's this? is that the same thing? 17 A That's the same. And that's different 18 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 123 another April 7, 2000 19 transmittal. 20 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 123 was marked for 21 identification.) 22 BY MR. COHEN: 23 Q What is this? 24 A This is to Scott frrom Bob Bocci again. I think 25 the previous one was 900,000 square foot parking count? 164 41 (Pages 161 to 164) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 Q Yeah. 1 2 A 9,003 — 900 and 300 — 900 and — 2 3 Q Oh, yeah. 938,625. 3 4 A Thank you. This one exhibit 123 has to do with a 4 5 million one basically parking count And there's the 5 6 tabulation on theca 6 7 MR. COHEN: Exhibit 124, April 13, 2000 transmittal. 7 8 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 124 was marked for 8 9 identification.) 9 10 THE WITNESS: This is to Scott Dinovitz from Bob Bucci. 10 11 And we're transmitting a zip disk of the revisions to the 11 12 specific plan. 12 13 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 125, April 14, 2000 13 14 transmittal, enclosing statistical summary. 14 15 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 125 was marked for 15 16 identification.) 16 17 THE WITNESS: This is to Scott Dinovitz. This 17 18 is -- these all go together, but this is that figure we 18 19 were wondering, so we did produce it. We marked it up. 19 20 They might have done the graphics, but looks like we're 20 21 doing the numbers. 21 22 BY MR. COHEN: 22 23 Q "They" being EDAW? 23 24 A Right. 24 25 MR. COHEN: Exhibit 126 marked for identification. 25 165 1 April 24, 2000 transmittal letter. 1 2 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 126 was marked for 2 3 identification.) 3 4 THE WITNESS: This is to CRHO Architects. I don't know 4 5 who they are architects for, but I suspect they're some 5 6 user we're working with. 6 7 MR. COHEN: 127. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 127 7 8 letter of transmittal dated June 29, 2000. 8 9 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 127 was marked for 9 10 identification.) 10 11 THE WITNESS: This is Gary Freedman of the Ezralow 11 12 Company, sending two copies of conceptual site plan dated 12 13 2/28 to him per the request of Lori Fox of Ezralow. 13 14 BY MR. COHEN: 14 15 Q Right Now we don't know what conceptual plan? 15 16 A But at this time we have dates. I'm sure we 16 17 can — 17 18 Q Find that? 18 19 A Yeah: 19 20 Q That's the confirmation sheet? 20 21 A This one is out of order. 21 22 MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 128. April 24, 2000 memo. 22 23 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 128 was marked for 23 24 _ identification.) 24 25 / 25 166 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER BY MR. COHEN: Q But you don't really know? ' A These are architects. Site plan. I guess we were faxing it. MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 129 another memorandum from Linscott Law & Greenspan dated May 11, 2000. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 129 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this? A This is to Scott Dinovitz It's the preliminary sharing parking study for the Crossings at Huntington. This is their preliminary report sharing parking study. Q Shared with whom? A Well, what you do is — for instance, if you have a theater on a site all by itself — Q Uh-huh? A —they need X number —just for a number's salve — 200 parking spaces. When you combine uses, retail and theater and restaurant, you don't need to necessarily provide 200 spaces for that same theater when it's shared use, because you have people moving in and out. You have a lot more spaces, but you don't have to provide — the city code usually provides a require per use is terms of parking 167 space. You can relax those requirements as a whole based on shared uses. You know, the restaurants are busy in the evening when retailers may not be, or theaters on the weekend, that type of thing. So city codes allow for that thinking. So this is the study that is required to get to the number of parking spaces we have to provide. MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 130 a memorandum dated May 12, 2000 to Doug Gray from Cristina Agra -Hughes. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 130 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Do you know who that is? A Right. That's the — we said in the beginning Crisdna Agra -Hughes is the construction person at — in-house at Ezralow. Q At Ezralow? A Right. Q Is she like - A She's the one who signed up my contract and approves payments and contractor payments. Q She's the main person? A In that respect, yes. And this is — this is the wish list of the security folks at the current Huntington 168 42 (Pages 165 to 168) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 'r 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Beach maLL When we design the new facility, this is what they would recommend is in place in part of — Q Regarding security? A Right. Kind of their specs, if you would. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 131 letter of transmittal dated June 19, 2000, to Jason, Gorden, Epstein & Associates. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 131 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Who are they? A Epstein & Associates. They're familiar. I'm trying to think what they do. They're something related to the theater. Either going to be like the brokers or somebody. I've heard of them before. I'm not exactly sure what their capacity is, but it has to do with the theater. Q And they want to know how long the courtyard area -- A That's what it looks like. Q So that would be — let's take 41. A Area C. Q Area C. Okay. MR. COHEN: Mark as Exhibit 132, June 27, 2000 correspondence or transmittal letter to Gary Federich & Associates. 169 (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 132 was marked for identification.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Do you know who they are? A Sounds like an architect, if I had to guess. Q For a potential retailer? A Right. Q User? A Right. Q User is the proper word, I guess. There is something in the pocket. What is that? A This is from EDAW dated 12/9/99 to Bob BuccL Oh, this is the current — they're transmitting to as the current signage code. So this represents — MR. COHEN: Let's mark what you're reading as Exhibit 136. It's a number of pages to EDAW. (Whereupon Plaintiffs Exhibit 136 was marked for identification.) THE WITNESS: It looks like there's something from the City of Huntington Beach from Jane James to Jayna Morgan of EDAW. Here is the current sign code. And it's just city code for signs. Because we were using that as a basis to start for the specific site plan regulations. MR. COHEN: Basically, we pretty much agreed to do this in two parts, and to adjourn after we finished the notebook 170 1 of documents. Pretty much probably for two reasons: one, 2 we're just — 3 THE WITNESS: Worn out. 4 MR. COHEN: —worn out 5 We have some more questions and, two, we need to 6 go back to GFA and look at the site plans that weren't 7 broughttoday. 8 THE WITNESS: Correct 9 MR. COHEN: And we need you to take a look at those. 10 So what well do is the court reporter will prepare the 11 transcript; 12 send a copy to Mr. Coda at his officer at GFA with 13 a self-addressed, stamped envelope with it. And youll 14 review it, make any necessary corrections. Let's say 30 15 days to review. And then you'll send it back to our 16 offices. 17 We retain custody of the original. And if in the 18 event the original is lost or misplaced or if it's not 19 signed, then a certified copy will be used in its place. 20 Do you have anything else? 21 MR. WATSON: That's fine with me. 22 We'd like a copy of.the deposition as well. 23 MR. COHEN: And we're making copies of all the 24 exhibits, and that's what well give to the reporter, and 25 give you back the original you brought today. So 171 1 stipulated? 2 MR. WATSON: So stipulated. 3 (Volume I of deposition concluded at 2:26 p.m.) 4 (Declaration of Penalty of Perjury attached 5 hereto.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 172 43 (Pages 169 to 172) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 ABBOTr 3:9 Abercrombie 38:21 able 32:17,17,19,25 33:20 46:4,19 about 9:6 12:25 24:22 27:11,15 31:6 32:21 35:13 38:23 40:15 41:10 41:25 49:20 50:3 56:23 57:16 64:1,9 64:17 66:13,19 70:13 85:7 87:20 91:11,24 102:9 103:12 104:18 106:13 111:16 113:5 115:9 126:6 127:23 128:16 131:8 139:12,17 143:12 145:4 146:19 159:20 161:7,7,12 162:17 164:4 above 43:15 58:3 105:17 127:14 154:19 Absolutely 12:21 38:5 68:2 71:1 abutting 123:21 accept39:22 109:14 access 115:7 137:1 accommodate 32:17 32:19 accomplish 40:25 54:25 65:11 accomplished 5 1: 10 accounts 88:22 accuracy 23:6 Ackerberg 158:18 acquiring 26:2 across 99:16 act 29:7 actions 144:22 activities 13:18 actual 10:13 62:12 73:10 74:22 75:22 75:24 78:25 80:19 92:14 137:4 actually 14:918:2 21:18 22:16 24:10 27:24 31:24 33:7 34:25 36:5,25 37:20 41:13,24 45:7 53:23 67:10 68:22 71:24 75:20 79:22 81:15 83:4 86:15 96:3 98:7,12 100:16 101:7 104:10 113:15 120:22 121:19 128:17 129:8 136:17,23 138:22 139:1 144:17 149:15 150:24 153:22 158:11 159:14,24 161:14 addenda 158:5 adding 22:1 78:8 addition 128:16 additional 149:8 address 7:18 8:1,3,4 14:18,21 18:5 21:15 addressed 21:16 adjourn 170:25 adjust 53:3 admin 37:1 advantageous 98:2 aerial 22:7,14 affect 17:7 80:22 108:10 affiliated 16:13 after 44:24 90:17 92:13 104:2 170:25 again 26:3 27:7 31:16 32:5,6 37:9 37:10 39:18 40:18 45:21,22,24 54:12 55:12,24 64:9 70:15 76:21 81:5 83:3 84:8 101:8 105:4,17,17 107:17 110:9 116:20 121:7 127:9 128:20 129:21 132:2 135:2,6,10 136:25 138:23 139:15 145:16 151:6 159:21 161:20 164:24 against 68:12 agencies 53:11 agent 37:11 ago 16:4 Agra -Hughes 4:14 168:10,16 agree 34:17,18 38:10 38:10 --- agreed 65:18,19 170:24 agreement 27:3 54:14 91:22 92:4 92:11,13,16 101:2 ahead 15:10 74:15 95:12 136:4 144:24 air 62:2,4 Air-conditioning 72:8 alas 3:9 158:18 Alia 94:4 allot 80:19 allow 168:5 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER allows 97:21 almost 154:16 along 54:16 125:25 137:23 138:14 already 22:3 40:14 78:18 128:7 131:5 alternate 162:4 alternative 100:13 101:5 alternatives 101:15 although 108:25 Altoon 124:5,5,15 always 17:1 89:4,23 104:16 105:17 141:22 144:15 American 125:2 amortization 142:5,8 amount 72:19 79:23 119:6 analysis 56:11 Angeles 2:25 3:5,11 7:2 18:6 Anne 2:21 another11:22 20:10 23:1136:10,11 44:3 47:2,13,15,21 48:21 51:22 54:2 57:15 59:20 60:13 71:5,12 74:20 83:14,18 88:4 92:20 96:14 109:22,23 111:21 112:4,15,15 113:8 118:14 123:23 127:13 130:24 131:10,16 134:3,3 135:16,21 140:23 149:24 154:9 158:24 159:1 164:18 167:5 answer 24:2 66:4 67:16 123:10 answers 9:3 anticipate 91:13 anticipated 131:25 anymore 65:5 anyone 26:4 27:18 37:22 52:5,14 65:12 77:1,3,3,5 117:24 134:14 159:12 anyone's 106:21 143:11 anything 9:15 12:12 16:17 41:4 67:12 77:7 87:20 92:8 107:17 133:18 134:7 136:13 144:13 154:2 157:20 171:20 anyway 32:22 35:12 122:15 anywhere 106:13 120:12 apart 71:21 apparently 16:3 60:23 132:5 143:12 APPEARANCES 3:1 appears 112:13 appendix 47:18 151:21 apples 91:7 applicant 96:9 100:22 application 88:11 apply 120:16 approval 53:15 approvals 97:5 105:14 approve 53:10,12 97:16 approved 29:2,3,4,6 50:4 98:1 109:8 144:23 145:12 approves 168:22 approximately 39:5 April 103:14,16 161:25 162:10 163:21 164:6,18 165:7,13 166:1,22 architect 11:7,10,12 12:1013:17 26:12 26:20 34:18 52:19 58:12 67:8 104:24 118:9 170:5 architects 8:18 13:19 24:21 33:13 59:10 59:16 60:9,20,24 71:24 124:6,7 133:21 150:5,9,19 159:19,19 160:22 166:4,5 167:3 architectural 13:19 59:5,9 120:7 architecture 11:6,8 12:16,16 138:24 149:25 architect's 79:4 area 14:13 18:12 27:10 40:6,8 41:9 41:24 42:6,10 44:18 50:12 53:11 79:17104:23 106:7 132:2 141:11 156:23 161:20 169:18,21 169:22 areas 40:5 79:16 121:13 around 14:10 30:3 33:20 36:22 66:17 90:3 95:3 104:20 Page 173 127:20 148:13 162:10 arrow 81:16 arrows 43:13,14 Art 5:9 124:23 articulation 70:6 artist 139:1 artistic 4:19 69:2,8 70:10 130:1 asked 87:20 143:14 asking 149:7 aspect67:14 assembled 18:22,24 assessment 147:25 148:2 assessments 149:14 assign 79:22 assist 24:2,3 assistance 92:6 assistant 15:11 assistants 157:2 assisted 37:14 assisting 14:3 16:23 17:8 23:25 24:14 33:10 associate 57:15 associated 149:8 associates 1:10 2:9 2:24 3:3 12:2,3 14:1 55:23 56:3 60:20 169:7,12,25 assume 10:8 12:4 17:19 74:16 76:18 83:24 99:14 136:17 145:1 150:20 assuming 108:6 assumption 65:2,3 108:8 109:7 assumptions 100:13 as -in 104:14 Atlanta 19:22 Atlantic 75:16 attach 153:22 attached 48:13 71:14 138:10 152:7 172:4 attachment 10:15 63:2,4 85:9 121:6 162:20 attempt 84:17 attendees 94:3 95:18 Attention 37:5.45:22 attorney 3:4,10 26:4 audible 123:14 augment 85:16 August 21:8 22:2 23:11 34:11 authorities 92:5 auto 66:13 Autocad 153:16 automotive 63:22,24 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 64:15,23 65:7,13 101:11 automotives 64:2 availability 80:23 Avenue 42:3,5 68:6,6 70:13 79:10 81:17 122:12 123:8 125:25 126:10,22 126:23,25 aware 15:22 95:15 103:15,17 away 40:17 67:9 81:23 82:4 126:19 a.m 1:20 2:23 7:1 B 4:6 5:1 6:1 8:9 44:18,19 61:10,19 61:20 69:15 70:3 91:1,2 106:7 113:19 114:14,15 114:16,18,25 127:1 bachelors 12:15,15 back 10:8 18:19 32:25 33:10 35:6 38:9 39:18 40:18 42:10,24 45:3 54:25 58:25 59:11 68:8 70:7,15 74:8 77:7 102:3 104:6 113:3 115:9 119:1 121:25 123:5 126:4 127:15 128:5 133:4,19 146:11 155:23 161:21,21 162:23 171:6,15,25 backed 118:25 backing 161:13 bad 32:8,13,13 46:21 115:5 ball 25:23 119:9 Ballard 149:25 bank 88:21 142:10 base 23:18,20 24:11 117:21 118:2 119:16 based 78:19 80:4,20 85:18 135:2 148:2 168:1 basic 104:24- basically 9:9 22:6- 47:9 53:2155:3 71:22 96:22 97:25 110:12 115:21 116:3 127:19 147:20 149:11 165:5 170:24 basis 11:7 34:18,19 58:9 98:17 170:22 Bath 112:16,25 118:21,22 121:5,8 137:9,11 150:20,24 bathrooms 127:21 battery 65:18 102:5 142:10 Baugh 152:13,18,19 beach 1:6 2:5 7:19 17:21 41:16 42:24 52:22 68:7 74:22 86:7 90:18 92:20 93:1 95:14,21 96:15 98:21 101:9 113:15 122:21 132:7 143:2,10 169:1 170:20 bear 11:4 become 10:2188:21 becomes 46:12,14 71:2197:24 Bed 112:16,25 118:21,22 121:5,8 137:9,11 150:19,24 bees 58:1 before 2:218:10 13:10 15:1 44:24 52:7 55:8 73:23 78:1 87:8 88:15 90:18 92:10 169:15 begin 59:13 beginning 11:13 21:15 55:4 59:10 66:4 67:10131:6 168:15 behalf 2:20 7:5 99:8 behind 68:8125:15 being 12:7 14:7 26:11,24 30:25 32:17 37:3,10 79:20 91:22 100:24 101:1 106:2 107:11 109:3 112:2 118:8 118:9 163:9 165:23 believe 13:25 14:22 15:25 21:23 28:11 29:5 38:1,2,19 54:20 5&17 63:15 75:25 77:17 90:21 92:12 97:19 107:5 108:22 146:8,21 -158:23,25 160:23 Bell 149:25 below 57:25 Benchmade 49:1 Benchmark 49:1,1 49:21 50:10. 134:24 beneficial 28:20 Bernard 15:8 30:2' 35:22 37:13,18 54:12 157:5 163:21 best 9:9,12 17:8 22:8 28:3 41:6 52:16,17 52:21 68:16 76:3 89:17 91:17 103:13 125:22 155:21 bet 121:7 better 32:6 33:1 35:12 40:9 54:11 55:14 between 58:8 80:8,8 92:4,16 96:23 100:22112:17 118:4 beyond 78:25 112:16 112:25 118:21,22 121:5 137:10 150:20,24 bid 50:1,2 52:15,17 52:20 120:10 big 23:2 42:18 45:3 51:22 52:7 78:6,13 90:17 101:10 104:24 106:14,18 115:23 119:6 126:16 133:15,20 147:3 162:17 bigger 39:13 40:17 40:19 41:23 70:23 137:2 . birds 146:23 bit 19:25 22:2126:9 27:21 39:2179:6 black 48:5,7,9 66:16 blah 37:16,16,17 150:22,22,22 161:16,16,17 Blair 149:25 blank 40:22 Blattis 140:24 Block 25:10 blocks 28:1 blue 43:12 blueprints 45:6 72:3 72:4 Blues 134:2 boat 124:14 Bob 19:3 21:17 34:23,24 49:19 55:24 57:21 58:6 59:17 64:6 76:18 77:6 84:6 156:12 158:3 160:10 162:3 164:24 165:10 170:12 Bob's 60:10,11 boils 117:22 book 29:13 30:12 125:1,2 boring 47:21 boss 57:11 both 13:13 38:10 bother 55:1 bothering 17:23 bought 54:22125:1 Boulevard 2:24 3:5 box 33:18 40:19 101:10 104:19,24 106:20127:15 129:2 133:12,20 boxes 42:18 113:25 126:14 brand 109:9 break 17:24 58:22 -70:21 71:2198:3 163:17 BREED 3:9 Brent 130:20 brief 19:18 23:16 bring 20:135:8 43:22 73:12 108:13 125:16 148:9 broke 113:25 broken 12:25 broker 37:5,10 56:4 56:7 brokers 48:20 169:14 brought 14:12 18:21 58:21 171:7,25 Bryan 111:14,20 112:8125:14 127:9,10141:8 BS 12:16 Bocci 5:819:3 34:23 57:21,22,23 77:6 94:6 100:4 156:12 158:3 160:10 162:3 164:9,24 165:10170:12 Bocci's 34:24 bucks 88:24 budget 120:5 build 33:6 65:19 97:7 104:7 105:17 107:20119:16 124:17 135:4- building 32:7,11,22 33:2,2,3,4,6,17,21 33:22 44:11 64:9 64:11 65:20 66:20 66:2168:8 70:8,18 81:12,19 86:16 87:14,15,25 88:1,1 88:3 89:16,18 90:16,19 91:9,9,11 91:17 92:8 97:8 104:1,1,7,25 105:16107:18,20 107:23 108:2,11,13 109:11,13,14 112:21 114:3 - )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 174 115:3,8 125:15 127:1,11,12,13 128:23 130:5 131:23 132:20,22 134:25 139:16 142:10 146:10 buildings 27:8 69:23 10:4,10,15,17,19 70:22,22,25 *104:22 108:5 109:1 114:7 124:16 147:2 building's 115:12 built 92:10 Bullocks 147:3 burtington 1:6 2:5 7:16 30:25 31:1,24 31:25 41:20 44:8 44:13 63:13 66:1 66:11,14,19 76:17 76:18 77:1,4 79:20 80:9,10,22 81:1,4,9 82:3 107:5,15,16 108:15,16 109:3 114:3 115:3 117:4 117:11,16,17 118:4 132:21 136:24 - 142:15 147:7,11 162:4,14163:6,11 burner 119:1 Burnside 84:22 bus 122:19 business 84:20117:9 busy 168:3 Buy 41:6 buying-54:15 B3463673 8:9 C 61:22,24 69:25 91:1,2 113:8,9,10 113:14 114:10 156:24 169:21,22 CAD 22:23 154:18 Calabasas 21:16 158:14 calculate 79:18 calculation 79:21 calculations 132:24 california 1:3,7 2:2,6 2:22,25 3:5,11 7:2 7:20 8:9 12:11 23:21 51:19 78:24 126:1 159:7 call 15:21 17:13 24:7 38:19 40:6 44:18 44:19 57:10 61:12 61:16,16,17 121:21 132:3 135:15,16 147:24,24 called 7:5 25:19 35:10 85:8 calling 110:15 140:16 Cal -Trans 79:7 161:7,8,11 came 50:7 54:15 64:5 67:8 72:18 75:2 87:9 104:1 142:1 144:18,19 Camping 127:16 campus 51:11,12 campuses 50:22 capacity 16:10 169:16 capitol -looking 106:15 carbon 36:23,25 carbon -type 37:2 card 84:20 care 49:18 64:1,17 65:17 96:3 139:22 144:12 cared 161:7 cars 78:9,12,14,19 79:23 80:5 case 1:8 2:7 24:11 28:25 29:5 72:15 78:17 84:16 88:19 89:17 97:19 143:20 160:23 category 20:4 79:24 80:1,2 148:19 CB/Ellis 130:20 CB/Richard 130:15 CC 60:3 CC-ed 20:23 CD 158:3,9 center 1:10 2:9 5:3 12:2,3 13:6,7,15 25:20 26:25 33:22 40:16 42:6,8 43:7 64:15 66:22 68:6,6 68:10,12,14,19 70:13 78:6 79:2,9 80:19 81:17 93:23 103:21 109:9 111:14 112:19 117:6 118:12,24 120:11,12121:6 125:2,25 126:10 127:19,25 129:20 146:22 157:18 centers 25:8 39:11 117:10,11 118:10 118:10 central 41:9 94:17 110:10 centrally 95:7 CEQA 148:16 149:3 certain 79:23 80:19. 85:18 117:14 118:10 119:6 certainly 46:22 58:22 118:11 certified 2:21 7:7 171:19 chances 48:17 61:3 82:17 103:25 112:14 change 61:14 75:6 102:10 113:23 135:13 148:9,20 changed 46:11 changes 9:5,5,7 46:10 charge 11:8 96:25 97:4 98:7 99:12 Charles 149:25 check 88:24 checks 88:18,20 Chicago 141:6 Christina 15:12 chronological 20:6 73:8 Cindy 160:17 Cinemas 54:8 circle 161:8 Circuit 40:12 41:5 151:14 153:6 163:25 164:2,4 circulation 79:4 cite 89:15 cities 52:24 98:19 city 13:9 16:12 17:10 17:11,21 26:8,9,12 29:4 40:12 41:5 50:15,16 52:22 53:9,17,19,22 86:7 88:15 90:18,20,22 91:23 92:6,20 93:1 95:13,14,21 96:3,7 96:10,12,14,16,17 96:23 97:15 98:10 98:17 100:22 108:19,20 109:4,7 109:18 122:25 123:13,19 141:17 141:17 143:2,8,10 145:21 146:2 148:2 149:13 151:14 153:7 156:5 163:25 164:2 167:24 168:5 170:20,21 City's 26:7 53:22 88:6 95:25 96:5,13 142:4 145:25 147:24 152:7 164:4 city -by -city 98:17 civil 94:5 clarifying 83:23 84:5 84:9 clean 28:2 117:15 clearance 125:22 126:3,5 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Cleary 23:18 client 11:20 26:4,20 59:8 72:14 96:16 124:6 137:25 clientele 117:12,14 117:18,19 118:5 clients 72:14,15 133:22 clip 93:2 151:1 clipped 128:7,11,19 clips 19:10 close 21:19 50:23 62:15 closed 62:1 closer 152:24 clothing 160:1 clue 71:15 Coast 13:125:9 coat 1:6 2:5 76:18 117:4,11,16,17 coda 1:19 2:20 7:4 7:15 171:12 code 81:3 82:1 84:15 97:10 107:23 108:12,14 109:5 167:25 170:14,21 170:22 codes 72:6 107:18 168:5 Cole's 158:24,25 159:1 160:22 color 112:13 118:22 137:23 138:7 153:18,21,22,24 colored 129:19 138:18 colors 153:17,20,25 Columbia 51:6 columns 72:5 85:23 combination 30:17 31:17 combine 167:20 come 30:13 34:9 42:23 51:24 64:4 72:23 78:14 85:19 92:13 95:13 99:16 113:1,3 117:7 120:6 123:20 136:23 143:11 159:8 comes 37:15 88:4 114:25 120:6 123:3 161:11 coming 37:21 47:8 56:6 78:9,19 commencing 2:22 comment 9:6 142:16 145:23 158:7 commented 9:6 comments 27:2 141:17 152:7 155:23 commercial 148:17 commitment 37:25 committed 37:21 common 39:20 52:21 communication 58:5 59:6 60:1 105:4 communications 58:8,10 Community 86:8,16 companies 38:20 41:4 company 1:11,12,12 1:13 2:10,11,11,12 4:2411:20,24 14:9 15:6,14 16:17 21:16,22 24:7 39:8 62:25 84:2185:3 94:4 99:15,18 143:1 149:14 166:12 comparing 117:13 competing 25:7 competitor 128:4 137:11 complete 47:17 110:9 142:4 comply 97:10 composite 134:24 computer 22:23 23:8 23:9 45:9,11,12,13 46:9,19,21 138:21 153:15 computer -generated 23:6 36:24 concept 22:12 23:3 25:16 27:9,13. 31:16 33:139:18 55:3 61:5 70:16 72:12 127:17 131:8 161:21 concepts 31:6 59:9 conceptual4:12,13 30:24 31:10 44:4 49:3 54:9 55:12 63:4 64:13 71:25 98:12 136:20 145:5 163:6 166:12,15 concern 79:7 concerned 79:19 concluded 172:3 concrete 121:2 condition 47:16 48:14,18 104:14 122:23,24 conditional 97:14,23 98:18 100:15 conditions 47:22 cone 47:19 confirm 77:22 84:17 84:18 confirmation 20:11 Page 175 20:11,12 73:19,20 73:24 74:3,13 78:4 93:5 121:22 128:15 153:7 156:10 159:18 160:2,12 164:5 166:20 conflict 107:9,10 conforming 135:4 confused 94:3 confusion 21:15 considered 95:21 108:16 148:17 consists 63:8 constantly 135:15,17 constraints 68:13 construction 15:13 15:21 16:23,24 17:7 52:13 56:19 56:20 75:23,24 89:3,9 90:15 92:14 92:18 116:5,6 119:17,23 134:23 138:1 144:10 168:16 construction -wise 107:14 consultant 16:14 21:18 26:4 56:4 95:25 96:4,16 99:13 116:3 144:14 consultants 17:15 27:25 94:21 consulted 25:17 67:18 consulting 28:6 67:5 contact 35:3 58:3,5 98:10145:18 contain 142:4 contained 22:9 48:9 contemplated 26:24 33:21,24 43:5 126:19 127:14 163:9 contemplating 41:23 113:13 121:13 128:24 129:1 137:1 contemplation 89:22 90:12 continuation 133:19 continue 34:3 continued 5:1 6:1 34:11 contract 96:14,16 142:17 168:21 contractor 16:15,18 49:2,16,22 50:4,8 50:12 52:11,18 139:12 168:22 contractors 49:24 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLING roN V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 50:6,9,14120:9,10 120:21 129:22 contracts 96:10 conversation 26:1,15 87:11 117:23 conversations 27:17 34:1,2,6,8 64:5 65:12 146:3,5 conveyed 33:16 cooking 72:12 coordinating 17:16 152:8 coordinator 35:1 copied 86:23 copies 36:8 37:9 122:13 154:17 164:3 166:12 171:23 copy 18:15,16 21:13 29:16 46:20,24 59:24,25 74:20 82:19 83:18 87:1,2 109:22,23,25 122:12,15 150:4 153:21,22,24 157:10 162:25- 163:2 171:12,19,22 corner 30.20 31:15 31:17 42:24 64:14 113:14 121:8 Corporation 1:7 2:6. correct 8:2010:5 11:14 12:7 15:4 16:2 11:23 18:16 19:6 21:23 22:3,4 22:16 23:24 24:16 24:18 30:24 31:2 36:9 38:16 41:21 42:20 43:18,19 44:10 53:8,16,18 53:20 57:6 58:6 59:14 61:25 62:5,8 62:19 63:6,14,15 63:21 64:3,19 67:20 69:16,18- 70:1,25 71:13 74:1 74:7 80:2181:5,10 81:11,23 82:799 84:13 96:25 99:23 104:21 1OT:7 108:20109*7 110:1411-2:4, 114:19 123:9 130:7 138:18 149:12 164:1 171:8 corrected 99:17 corrections 155:19 171:14 correlation 49:12 correspond 48:6,7 corresponded 20:3 correspondence 73:5 110:12 169:24 cost 68:4119:4,20,23 120:13 costing 120:3,17 135:2,8 costs 119:15,17 Council 97:15 COUNSEL 3:1 count 23:5 82:5 164:11,11,25 165:5 country 13:3 COUNTY 1:4 2:3 couple 40:5 76:2 79:14 course 26:19 court 1:3 2:2 8:24- 9:2 156:22 157:15 159:18 171:10 courting 24:11 courtyard 32:10 40:8 43:21 114:9 115:10 169:17 cover 4:18 47:13 142:18 156:11 Covington 94:5 CPT 47:20,25 48:1,4 CPTs 48:6 crazy 67:22 create 32:6,10 94:18 140:19 created 14:7 30:16 31:10 45:14 101:21 103:14 162:9,12 creating 33:4 53:24 creation 102:16 credentials 12:9 credit 117:1 CRHO 166:4 Cristina 168:9,16 cross 69:21 Crossing 63:9 Crossings 5:3 41:16 75:2 93:23 101:9 167:13 cross -hashed 44:11 44:18 - 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Page 176 171:22 172:3 Depot 127:18,22,24 128:4 describe 10:25 13:16 22:5,8 25:25 35:20 58:25 68:23 71:18 description 21:12 23:16 36:20 54:7 55:21 60:18 142:22 143:15,17 144:3,5 design 18:3 19:21 30:23 31:10 38:3,4 38:9 52:12 59:9 68:23 105:1 120:7 120:8 125:7 127:19,25 136:23 161:8,15 163:6,11 169:1 designer 13:21 14:14 designers 57:25 designs 105:19 design -wise 107:14 detail 98:19 . detailed 98:16 detailing 120:14 details 92:17.145:6 145:16 detail -oriented 98:23 determination 108:20 determine 53:19 67:18 87:10 119:18 153:18 determines 148:2 determining 86:1 119:10 Detroit 18:6 develop 52:19 78:22 developed 16:17 65:14 78:14 developers 12:6 16:7 developing 52:12 118:10 development 13:18 34:19 38:6 52:13 52:23 78:§,8,20 86:8 87:25 89:2 132:8 144:8 diagonal 42:23 diagram 47:20 differ 116:2 difference 80:10 91:8 112:17 118:4 129:24 138:25 different 14:10 20:24 21:22 27:4 31:4 40:1149:6 87:22 93:15 96:4100:13 117:13 118:1,2,3 120:15 130:25 138:13 149:20 153:17,20,25 156:9 161:22 164:17 differentiate 156:6 differently 32:23 72:20 117:15 difficult 30:9 53:22 53:23 dimensions 72:5 dinky 103:18 Dinovitz 16:8,19,20 16:20 17:10 21:14 21:21 29:22 49:18 57:8 67:17 82:17 94:3 96:20,22 99:6 99:18 110:4 116:2 116:3,12 120:3 122:12 129:18 135:7 137:22 143:2 147:14 149:2 155:7,8 158:3 160:10 162:3 164:9 165:10,17 167:12 Dinovitz's 99:15,22 direct 88:20 99:13 141:5 directed 66:8 98:25 direction 37:15 64:20 99:3,4 100:20 102:17 directive 67:3 99:10 director 99:14 directs 24:15 disagreement 104:23 disallow 97:16 discounted 55:8 discretion 97:15 discretionary 97:5 97:13 discuss 55:11 discussed 98:25 100:24 123:7,7 discussing 103:23 discussion 9:24 18:1 18:18 33:5 55:4 59:18 92:24 discussions 33:9 109:17 disk 153:13 154:18 160:23 162:4 163:1 165:11 distance 129:9 distinct 31:10,12 distinction 67:4 diverge 27:20 diversified 16:6 divide 42:17 division 11:5 12:24 16:1 37:19 divisions 12:19,23 13:1 document 10:17 19:19 20:10 35:20 77:11 98:9,10 122:20 149:3 documentation 54:12 83:13 154:25 documented 95:18 documenting 95:16 documents 18:21,22 19:7 52:13 171:1 doing 17:5 34:23 39:24 47:2149:6 56:11 65:4,7 100:10 120:12 140:20,20 142:7 149:11 162:17 165:21 dollars 17:8 120:18 dome 106:14,18 done 13:5 14:15 22:23,24 27:25 28:18 39:3,10 45:12 82:8 90:18 107:17 117:10,10 130:2 138:21,23 165:20 dots 48:7,9 dotted 62:6 double 106:22 131:23,23 doubled 131:24 Doug 14:9 15:3,7,24 23:18 25:19 27:2 27:17 37:14 55:25 56:6,22 59:12,24 59:25 62:25 64:6 65:23 66:2,18 71:8 75:4 76:20 111:20 112:3 116:24 117:2 119:14 135:15 138:2 140:2 153:5,6 155:18,24157:2 168:9 Doug's 15:11 125:16 down 22:1Y25:8 30:13 42:23 43:9 46:15 49:7 70:21 85:23 112:19 115:6 126:2 128:3 draft 141:18 149:13 149:14 151:21 155:19,23 156:6,7 drafters 57:25 drain 91:15 drainage 88:5 drains 128:2 dramatic 27:4 dramatically 135:14 draw 31:16 65:17,22 65:25 66:9,1167:1 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 107:1 117:14 132:10 drawings 45:7,8 52:9 138:18,20 draws 117:15,18 DreamWorks 50:21 51:3,11 dress 70:4 drew 66:3 drinking 9:16 drive 17:3 69:21 70:7 79:9 85:24 driver's 8:6 drives 77:23,23 79:17 118:13 drive-thru 126:9,10 126:18,19 drive-thrus 126:8 driving 44:1 85:12 dropped 25:23 dtd 4:8,9,9,10,10,11 4:11,12,13,14,15 4:15,16,16,17,17 4:18,19,20,20,21 4:21,22,22,23,23 4:24,25 5:3,4,5,5,6 5:6,7,7,8,9,10,10 5:11,11,12,12,13 5:13,14,14,15,15 5:16,16,17,17,18 5:18,19,19,20,20 5:21,21,22,22,23 5:23,24,24,25 6:3,3 6:4,4,5,5,6,6,7,7,8 6:8,9,9,10,10,11,11 6:12,12,13,13,14 6:16 du 135:12 duly 7:6 duplicate 20:15 160:12 duplicates 21:1 duplication 83:5 during 123:18 duties 10:25 11:9 E 4:1,6 5:1 6:1 11:8 each 19:8 87:25 91:9 138:5 150:13,14 154:18 earlier 19:25 73:21 103:2,3,5 136:3 161:7 early 22:22 136:21 136:22 161:17 163:7 easement 126:1 easier 74:11 easily 81:24 89:14 East 13:1 easy 89:12 eating 25:16 115:11 economic 118:2 economical 39:18 68:15 85:5 90:5 107:19 economics 119:3 EDAW 27:24 28:5,6 86:24 87:7,12,20 94:2,4,25 95:4,24 96:6,23 110:3,8 142:18 143:2 144:1,11 147:14,21 147:22 149:1 151:2,2,20152:8 154:10 155:20 158:6 165:23 170:12,16,21 EDAW's 87:2 95:16 147:24 edge 81:19,20 Edinger 42:3,4,24 68:12,18 69:19 70:3 113:14 122:12,16,17,19 123:8126:22,23,24 Edison 126:1 education 12:14 116:4 Edwards 54:8,13,14 54:14,21 efficient 37:3 effort 17:16 eight 93:2103:10,12 EIR 95:25 96:15 146:7,16147:20,23 148:6 149:11 EIS 95:25 either 27:16 38:11 41:24 42:22 56:3 65:23 67:8 99:11 112:14 120:4 127:14 144:11 146:6 169:14 element 39:23 103:23 elements 72:7 163:13 elevation 43:17 60:22 105:2 112:14,15,18,20 129:19 elevations 29:25,25 35:6 39:3 103:24 124:9 138:8,9 139:16 151:14 elevator 129:7,8 elevators 43:22 Ellis 37:4,10 45:21 130:15 elsewhere 13:5 else's 84:3 employed 134:14 enclosed 93:13 Page 177 152:13 encloses 153:13 enclosing 30:6 165:14 end 61:15 75:6 101:11 133:16 137:8 138:3 147:3 ended 87:2 enforce109:15 engage 28:20 engineering 115:23 116:11 engineers 47:9 77:16 83:4,19 94:5 115:22 116:9 161:1 engineer's 79:5,25 Englekirk 115:21 enlargements 164:2 entertaining 75:18 entertainment 25:15 134:4 entities 92:9 entitle 64-13 entitled 41:16 44:3 47:14 48:163:9 97:6 101:8 entitlement 16:12,22 97:4,6 105:10 entitlements 97:1,2 entity 12:4 123:12 entry 103:22 envelope 171:13 environmental 28:7 28:8 78:23 147:25 149:14 Epstein 169:6,12 equal 146:12 escalator 106:19 129:8 escalators 43:22 Especially 26:22 72:23 establish 147:19 establishment 25:6 estate 33:14 138:1 estimate 50:1 87:13 87:15 89:2 105:15 estimated 105:5 119:23 estimates 87:12 even 40:21 67:11 70:18 86:4 135:17 136:23 141:4 146:11 156:4 163:2,3 evening 168:3 event171:18 ever 8:10 43:25 60:5 60:8 77:1 every 56:23 58:9,10 72:10 90:22 94:24 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 135:15 148:17 everyone 99:12 142:14 162:16 everything 27:22,23 30:18 46:2152:15 55:1 62:2 68:11 71:3 87:7 88:7 97:22 105:16 106:11,25 116:17 117:1 121:2 124:18 128:1 129:1 157:9 everything's 159:11 exact 11:22 32:24 39:4 exactly 75:9 84:7 87:19 137:17 138:12 150:12 169:15 examination 4:2 7:10 . examined 7:7 example 17:2,12 22:11 24:4 30:19 51:13 85:9146:10 161:17 except116:17 excited 26:11 excluded 65:22,25 66:11 excludes 41:20 exclusive 57:18 exhibits 17:13 69:22 73:21 130:8 171:24 existed 78:7 existence 103:10 existing 17:2,3,5 33:7 40:14 47:16 48:14,18 63:20 67:13,14,19 68:2 68:14 77:20 78:6,7 78:9,17 81:9 84:8 85:23 101:10 102:4 103:21 104:2,4 120:16 126:24134:25 135:3 144:10' 146:3,12,13- exists 78:4127:1 exit 79:12L - exiting 72:5+ expense 81:25 experience 92:2 98:21 117:10 118:8 expertise 14:12 explanation 19:18 Expo 127:18 128:4 expressing 109:13 extent 65:15 91:25 exterior 120:24 extra 133:2 149:10 eye 107:1 eyesore 26:8 ezralow 1:11,12 2:10 2:11 11:20,2412:7 13:2,4 15:3,4,5,13 15:2516:2,13,21 17:18 21:16,22 23:25 24:7,15 27:18 37:18,19 49:21 53:13,24 54:15 56:9,15 57:4 58:5,9 59:12 62:25 65:8,13,22,24 67:8 88:13,17 94:4 96:7 96:23 99:8111:14 112:8124:19,20 125:14 127:9 141:8 142:14 143:1 149:13 153:9 156:12 166:11,13 168:17 168:18 Ezralow's 25:17 53:7 55:5 65:6122:24 facade 14:16,17 33:4 68:17 69:19 70:3 104:20112:20- 129:23 facades 70:24 face 68:18,19 69:1 faced 68:12 faces 42:3,8 70:13 face's 42:4 facility 33:16 64:23 81:3 132:2142:10 169:1 facing 42:6,18 68:14 69:24 Facsimile 4:22,23 6:3 fact 25:6 33:2148:5 52:24 161:14 factor 119:19 factors 33:19 FACI'ORYA:6 2:5 fairly 50:12 83:11 89:11 103:25 106:8 147:2 fall 14:23 familiar 12:213:6 16:8,10127:18 169:12 familiarity 8:19 far 16:11 31:12,21 37:16 51:23 62:9 79:19 92:7 96:21 131:19 Farrow 8:1 Fashion 25:10 faster 90:20 fat 23:2 father16:20 99:18 Fauland 144:21 145:19 faux 14:15 fax 4:8,9,9,14,16,17 4:18,19,20,20,25 5:8,10,10,11,14,19 5:21,21,22,22,23 5:23 6:3,4,4,6,6,7,9 6:9,10,11,1219:14 47:2,13 48:13 58:15 59:4,20 62:21,24 71:5,19 73:19,20,24 74:3 74:12,20 83:12 93:5,5,16121:19 121:22125:8 127:3 128:13,15 142:18 151:10 153:7156:10,11 157:4159:18 160:2,4 faxed 83:8125:18 128:17 faxes 20:12 faxing 125:18167:4 feasibility 47:10 107:13 feature 161:8- February 34:12 89:17,18 90:14 91:12 102:23,24 147:14148:24 149:2150:1,15 151:9,11 152:12 153:8154:10 Federich 169:24 fee 52:19 87:1188:1 88:2,2,7,12,14,16 96:17 feel 33:14 64:7 90:14 feeling 24:25 25:5 89:16 150:14 fees 87:10,14,18,18 87:20,22,25 88:3,4 88:4,5,6,8,10,18 96:12 feet 39:5,7 40:10,13 40:21 106:10 113:24 132:12,13 132:21 148:13 159:3 field 116:6 Fifth 3:10 figure 46:4,18 131:4 165:18 file 18:23 19:6 45:15 45:16 46:9 71:19 71:20 73:6,11 86:22 142:2 filed 89:10 files 125:4 filing 89:16 an 119:9 final 43:24,25 156:6 finalize 92:11 finalized 52:8 finalizing 62:14 finally 49:7 133:17 finance 76:7 financiers 75:18,22 financing 56:8,9,11 56:14 76:192:5 find 14:21 17:6,24 24:19 45:2 47,21 51:25 152:13 166:18 fine 10:7 67:168:3 98:19,22104:8 171:21 finished 170:25 fire 72:6 87:9 88:2 97:12 firm 10:20,23,25 11:7,819:24 28:6 37:5 57:15 67:5 firms 13:20 first 7:610:10 22:19 22:25 36:22 43:19 59:6 89:8,20 100:14102:19 104:10155:19 160:2 fit 24:13 27:8,8,13 65:10 66:22 84:14 104:24117:4 163:8 Fitch 38:21 fits 66:19,20 five 31:13,22,23 48:3 57:16,18135:14 147:12 live -page 47:13 77:11 flat 73:11 85:18 flexibility 33:1 floor 2:24 3:5,10 114:12 156:13 flow 78:11 flows 84:14 focal 106:11,25 focus 91:18106:16 focused 72:17 folks 56:9 75:17 168:25 follows 7:8 food 156:22157:15 foolish 25:23 foot 41:7 79:23 81:7 119:16 120:18 159:4 164:25 footage 33:8,9,19 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 178 40:1 77:21 79:18 80:4,6,10,14,15,20 105:6 119:4,11 133:8 148:10,11 155:9 footages 63:1,10 77:22 83:24 84:18 footprint 24:12 32:24102:4,10 forced 109:5 Foreman 94:5 form 83:7147:25 format 153:16 formula 80:3,24 forth 35:7 38:9 59:11 128:5 161:21,21 forward 59:5,5 107:25 foundation 4:24 84:20 85:4 four 8:13 16:4 29:23 29:23,24 76:2 90:19 93:14122:2 126:6,7 148:21 149:23 Fox 156:12157:1 166:13 -- frame 11:23 91:20 frank 1:19 2:20 7:4 7:15 free 17:19 109:3 Freedman 124:18,20 166:11 freedom 65:20 freehand 23:4 freestanding 108:23 109:6 frontage 40:22 41:1 full30:17 31:17 125:16 154:17 fully 146:14 full-sized 29:23 76:17 function 96:24 further 9:6 58:10 future 35:14 game 119:7 Gap 38:20 39:8,14 41:3 garden 103:21 Gary 124:18,20 166:11 169:24 gave 19:5 67:17 87:1 99:3,10 general 16:6 38:6 39:9 40:5 79:12 95:9 133:15 137:7 141:22 144:8 generally 11:3 22:13 71:20 72:13 76:6 86:23 94:2195:7 112:23 143:11 generate 80:5 generated 31:7,7 100:17,18 130:1,4 generating 72:10 generation 77:24 78:13 81:6 gentleman 19:2,3 Geopier 4:24 84:20 85:3 Geopiers 85:5,6,11 Georgia 12:18 geotechnica147:2,9 47:10 gets 38:7 137:10 getting 27:19 75:18 87:2 92:8 122:19 129:20 131:5 152:24 GFA 12:21,23 13:2 17:22 22:2 23:25 25:1,4,17 34:24 59:12 77:3 84:11 88:10 93:5 94:6 111:5 119:10 120:6 124:8 134:6 143:3,20 159:12 171:6,12 GFA's 13:14 94:16 95:6 give 7:24 9:12 17:7 19:6,18 21:12 23:16 30:18 34:10 36:20 43:13 45:13 54:7 55:21 58:11 60:18 81:22 85:13 88:17 99:4 102:14 119:17 132:6 139:16 141:23 142:22 145:23 162:14 171:24,25 given 39:1 68:13 89:14 gives 76:2 giving 104:4 GLA 31:15 glass 106:14,18 go 8:22 15:1017:25 18:19 19:1125:10 26:7 27:20 28:2 30:14 38:9 39:16 39:19,24 40:1 44:16 52:1,17 58:14,25 75:5 76:1 78:25 79:14 85:23 88:15 90:8 91:2 92:23 95:12 97:8 98:11 105:21 106:18 118:6 119:7 123:5,22 125:23 128:4 132:3 136:4,18 144:4 147:19 150:16,25 159:12 162:23,24 165:18 171:6 goals 80:23 God 119:25 goes 33:10 38:22 40:18 47:12,18 48:3 73:8 89:1 91:20 104:20 107:25 117:12 132:9 137:4 gone 65:17 100:20 113:1,2,3 126:19 136:24 good 20:18 39:24 46:21 51:13 55:10 65:9 73:1,2 76:8 83:13 95:16 116:8 116:20,22,25 129:9 132:3,4 goods 116:21,22 117:5,14 160:1 Gorden 169:6 Gothard 122:20 gotten 71:23 grade 114:21,22 granted 78:17 grapevine 132:5 graphics 130:4,5 139:2 154:24 158:4,9,14 165:20 Grapski 76:18 Gray 14:10 15:3 27:17 55:25 56:22 59:12 62:25 71:8 76:20 112:3 116:24 117:2 140:2 153:5 155:18 168:9 Gray's 15:24 27:2 great 25:21 26:6,13 80:11 127:11,12,13 127:17 128:2,22 129:3 131:17,24 132:13 Green 122:1,5 Greenberg 8:1 10:19 12:20 Greenspan 77:10,16 82:22 83:3,19 155:2 161:1 167:6 grief 104:4 group 18:3 41:3 67:2 75:19,25 Grub 37:4,10 45:21 guaranty 46:22 123:15 guess 8:15 9:22 12:25 15:7 25:7,24 26:3,9,16 30A8 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 37:5 46:23 47:12 53:9,13 66:15 67:4 68:24 73:19 75:17 76:6 81:18 86:17 86:21 90:7 93:14 94:6 96:22 101:10 102:21 103:13 110:15 114:11,18 117:9,22 118:21 119:2,15,22 125:4 125:16 129:7,22 136:20140:8 141:17 146:19 153:13 156:18 167:3 170:5,10 guessing 22:21 141:6 guidance 58:11 guidelines 98:16 gut 89:15 guy 37:14 50:19 86:20 121:20 guys 7:22 18:15 51:22 54:11 56:10 57.11 85:14 116:18,19 g-h 15:17,18 G.P.I 47:8 H 4:6 5:1 6:1 half 164:12 Hall 94:5 hand 22:24 30:2 45:10 128:21 handle 78:2 hands 137:8 handshake 92:16 handwriting 83:25 84:7 handwritten 83:15 83:20 84:10 hangover 36:24 happen 95:16 100:8 121:1 122:22 146:1 happened 54:18 87:6 131:18 148:5 happening 109:11 happens 49:6 67:20 hard 119:9 163:2 hardline 63:1 Harell 130:20 Harris 4:14 having 7:6 64:17 65:6 106:1,2 162:16 head 34:25 132:23 headed 20:2 hear 90:22 120:4 heard 56:5,5 85:7 104:6 132:5 169:15 heartache 162:17 heavier 85:21 height 106:22146:19 146:19,24,25 148:13 height's 146:21 held 9:24 18:1,18 59:18 92:24 95:6 159:13 help 24:24 28:20 125:7 143:21 154:3 her 15:20,21 Herb 144:21 145:19 hereto 172:5 hesitant 100:19 hey 23:3 24:6,13 26:5,5 31:14 51:14 53:4 57:10 66:18 88:15,23 98:9,17 102:2,8 104:6 135:16 158:7• He'll 57:10 higher -income. 117:18 highest 12:14 28:3 highlights 100:9 high -end 25:5,15 27:9 117:5 144:5 Hill 8:2 him 16:10 18:11 37:16 56:23 57:9 63:1 71:9 99:13 112:13 129:19,20 137:24 159:15,16 140:8,19 155:19 158:4 160:11 162:4 166:13 hire 124:7 hired 144:14 historical 124:16 hit 91:2 Hohman 59:2 60:6 140:4 hold 20:8 90:12 158:24 holding 90:2 Holly 136:10 Hollywood 14:14 home 7:22 23:18,20 23:20 24:11 127:18,22,24128:3 132:3 honest 20:8 34:3 83:25 117:3 hope 20:8 Hopefully 131:4 hopes 52:11 hoping 39:21 134:1 Hotel 120:23 house 68:8 119:20 1317 134:2 Page 179 houses 70:10 huge 91:19 Hugh 157:12 Hughes 15:12,15 hundred 29:23 49:25 52:15 huntington 1:6,10 2:5,9 5:3 7:19 12:2 12:3 13:7 17:21 25:20 41:16 52:22 63:9 71:9 74:4,18 74:21,22 75:2,5 86:7 90:18 92:20 93:1,22 95:14,21 96:14 98:21 101:9 111:14 118:24 121:6 143:2,10 167:13 168:25 170:20 HVAC 72:9 hypothetilyzing 101:17 H-u-g-e-s 15:16 ICSC 159:9 idea 46:7,8 67:7 ideal 115:7 identified 57:20 81:15,16 UM 35:23,25 lHastrative 4:13 44:4 image 117:5,6 imagine 85:17 immaterial 80:7 128:22 impact 28:7,8 78:21 78:23 88:4 146:22 impacts 78:15,24 79:15 146:10,12,18 148:3,12 implement 123:3 implementation 122:25 important 46:24 164:11 importantly 78:12 impression 21:24 29:6 38:2 64:19 65:16 77:8 improvement 23:20 improvements 142:6 142:8 inc 1:6 2:5 47:3 include 31:1 79:19 92:25 96:1 100:12 104:11 109:25 163:6 included 31:24 81:1 includes 30:25 44:8 57:21 63:4 69:2,7 74:22 84:20 98:12 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 101:9 104:12,13 152:14 including 80:22 102:5 inclusive 1:13 2:12 income 117:19,21 incorporate 64:10,23 incorporating 38:4 incorporation 154:19 increase 31:15 39:23 81:24 increasing 146:18 incur 96:12 independent 49:14 indicated 44:10 63:13,15,189-18 105:9,21 indication 34:10 135:13 individual 70:9,15 104:22,25 individualized 70:10 70:24 Indoors 127:11,12 127:13,17 128:2922 129:3 131:17,24 132:13 information 19:21 24:4,6 39:3 115:21 134:16 141:23,25 initial 19:23 inner 86:14 input 52:23 119:17 inquired 144:22 insight 141:24 installation 102:6 instance 33:24 66:10 70:18 167:16 instead 49:185:6 124:11 instructed 59:8,12 insufficient 98:14 intangibles 119:21 integral 108:23 integrity 108:10 intent 96:11 interest 159:13 interested 41:6 54:24 64:6 112:22128:3 131:19159:1,9923 interesting 142:3 ' interfere 126:3 International 79:25 intereet 134:15 interpretation 109:15 interrupt 44:21 intersections 79:13 interview 50:25 interviewed 50:5,9 introduce 136:4 introduction 144:2 investigating 124:7 investigation 17:5 investigations 48:8 investment 25:22 invoice 5:9124:22 125:3 involve 52:14 involved 16:4,20 23:25 26:21 28:9 30:4 38:7 101:24 102:7,8,11,14,16 103:19 115:25 119:10 involvement 13:14 87:4 91:21 in-house 168:17 Irvine 25:9 Island 25:10- islands 161:18 issue 21:25 36:22 40:19 52:25 78:6 78:13 96:4 97:10 97:20102:3 104:25 115:23 118:13 120:15 125:21 129:21 135:2 142:15 146:16,25 148:11 148:12159:21 161:15 issued 148:4,7 issues 33:15 47:10 72:7 90:3 95:9 98:24 115:13 120:15 142:13 Italian 14:51-8,11,14 68:20 70:6,16 I TE 79:24 items 98:18 110:8 J 3:9 James 55:22135:22 143:14 145:19,24 170:20 Jane 143:14 145:18 145:24170:20 January 18:10 34:11 102:22,24103:1 125:9 127:4 128:13,20129:13 130:10,20 131:11 134:20135:12,21 137:19 139:19 140:24 141:8 142:24 143:13 Jason 169:6 Jayna 86:24 94:1,4 110:7 111:4 170:20 Jayred 86:17111:4 141:16 JC 147:11 Jeff 130:15 131:1 Jo 2:21 job 79:5,5 82:6 jobs 137:24 John 60:19 143:3 152:6 154:15 Jon 19:4 57:14,24 58:3,6 jour 135:12 july 1:20 2:23 7:1 19:14 20:4 34:2 90:23 jump 118:5 Jumping 74:15 June 22:22 90:23 166:8 169:6,23 just 7:24 8:14,18,22 10:2212:4,19 16:6 18:23 19:9 21:24 24:4 25:6 26:2,4 30:18 31:3,4 32:8 34:17 39:8 45:23 46:13,22 50:1 " 52:15 66:9 67:12 68:17 71:12,25 72:16 73:8 74:4,8 74:16,19 77.21 78:9,25 81:8 82:18 83:7,13 84:5,12 91:11,18 93:16 95:7,11,19,23,24 96:1,15 97:21 99:9 99:11 104:18 105:7107:13,19 109:5,13,22,23,25 113:24 116:23 118:7 120:2,4,24 122:3 124:17 125:6,18131:16 132:3 134:16 135:6 136:25 141:21 148:17,20 150:10 153:15,24 154:3,4 156:9 158:4162:25 163:15,25 167:19 170:21 171:2 keep 9:20 18:23 20:11 32:17 46:10 64:11 68:14 71:16 71:18 116:18,19,24 116:25 117:2,23 137:24 145:17 146:3 152:22 162:18 keeper 24:5 keeping 27:18,22 73:2 104:2 109:19 137:23 Kell 94:6 kept 73:5,11 120:1 key 96:20 Keyser 55:22 56:2 Khara 94:5 Kids 159:20,24,25 160:1 Kim 37:1 kind 15:11 16:617:6 17:8 20:16 25:4 38:5 39:20 40:24 50:23,24 54:15 56:12,12 59:6 67:15 79:9 81:19 92:5 94:17 96:10 96:25 100:9105:1 105:14113:25 115:9 117:12 118:12137:7,12 138:2,25 139:15 142:3 143:17 169:4 kitchen 127:21 knowing 49:17163:3 knowledge 21:21 35:2 46:15 49:21 50:7146:4 known 61:11 labeled 72:19 lack 40:8 lacking 14:13 land 84:9132:9 landscape 22:12 34:25 language 17:14 large 50:12106:8,10 127:15 129:2 133:22 larger 42:10,22 70:22115:8,8 Larry 16:19,19,20 16:22 21:14,16,18 -21:2149:18 67:17 99:18 116:2,3,12 120:3,3,7 129:18 135:6137:22 last 9:1611:17,17 50:11 132:1,7 late 14:23 22:22 later 89:25 98:2 99:17 latest 141:17 law 2:23 3:3,4,8,10 77:10,16 82:22 83:3,19 94:6 97:10 97:21 122:1,5 155:2160:25 167:6 layout 32:9 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 180 lead 16:11 17:11,12 99:12 138:3 leading 96:25 97:3 leads 80:18 lease 23:23 37:22 38:154:20 leasing 15:11 37:13 least 29:6 30:22 62:10 106:2 116:4 leave 9:23 102:5 led 114:5 left 32:25 42:11,18 120:3 133:14 left-hand 64:14 legislative 144:22 lenders 76:2 less 78:20 107:1 119:6 146:13 lesser 32:16 let 14:21 19:11 41:11 71:16 81:1 143:4 148:24 158:4 letters 93:1 let's 12:2214:11 17:25 18:19 23:25 31:14 35M 41:12 49:1158:25 59:3 61:10,2162:20 63:7 67:170:2 73:14 89:9 92:23 108:17 109:21 113:6,18 114:11 117:23 123:5 137:9 143:25 153:20 163:17 169:20 170:15 171:14 level 12:14 43:6,15 43:19,23 62:7 102:14106:8 114:22 126:3 129:6 137:3,4 150:11 levels 81:24 126:2,4 126:6,7 146:19 Liability 1:10,12,13 2:9,11,12 liaison 96:22 license 8:6 licensed 12:10 116:10 licensing 12:9 116:4 lieu 47:21 127:14 life 72:7 likelihood 105:23 106:1 likely 28:25 37:12 94:15 129:8 162:11 Limited 1:10,11,12 2:9,10,11 line 43:6,7 62:6 114:25 134:25 137:4 lined 81:19 lines 126:15,16 138:14 Linscott 77:10,16 82:22 83:3.19 84:14 94:6 121:25 122:5 123:7 155:1 160:25 167:6 Linscott's 84:17 list 110:8 168:25 little 19:25 22:21 26:9 27:21 30:20 31:4 36:20 39:21 54:11 55:21 70:15 79:6 85:9 103:18 113:25 114:3,7,18 115:11 live 25:21 38:12 living 26:9 LLP 3:9 loading 68:9 loads 85:20 loan 75:19,20 locate 24:19 located 44:13 51:1 51:15 94:14 95:7 location 27:11,15 32:7,13,16,20 38:9 47:15 55:2 85:22 113:15 locations 85:18 Locke 37:1 log 48:1,4 logical 68:9 long 10:23 26:10 76:7 80:5 103:9 147:12 169:17 longer 91:14 92:17 148:25 longstanding 21:23 look 10:7 14:3,4,4,8 25:7,10 27:21,21 28:2 29:8 30:9 31:14 34:18 38:9 40:24,25 41:11,12 49:24 51:7 55:6 67:1168:22,23 69:3,8,18,23 70:5,6 70:9,14,17,19,21 70:24 72:20 79:3 81:11 87:3 88:16 95:11 104:22 112:23 113:6 116:21 117:12,14 124:10 125:22 134:16 135:7 143:4,25 148:16,18 153:18 162:18 171:6,9 looked 20:7 29:16 51:9 52:1 79:7 104:16 146:24 looking 11:16 14:19 18:9,10 22:13 26:2 28:13 39:6,19 40:12 51:8 52:2,5 64:12 69:22 79:13 102:1 106:6 112:19,20 124:7 137:6 143:23 148:12 153:21,24 163:7 looks 20:19 21:1,13 21:25 29:24 37:8 44:17 48:15 59:9 59:23,24 62:25 71:8 73:20 74:15 76:16 77:20,21 83 :4,6,11,14,16,23 84:5 86:14 87:1 94:2 109:21 111:19 125:1 128:15,17,20 129:18,23,25 130:16,25 138:24 139:25 148:4,22 149:7,13 155:18 165:20169:19 170:19 looming 107:11 loop 79:9 loren 3:4 7:16 59:2 59:25 60:1,6 140:4 Lori 156:12157:1 166:13 Los 2:25 3:5,117:2 18:6 lost 171:18 lot 14:15 24:9 37:15 37:23 50:17 61:4 86:23 94:25 103:2 120:24 134:13,15 142:13 144:16 154:24 159:13 167:24 lots 66:9 87:24 133:14- - lower 42:25 64:14 106:12 lowly 8:18 16w-end 117:6 Lube 142:10 Lubert-Adler 160:17 Lynch 35:23 L.A 51:20 124:6 Maberry 94:6 Macerich 25:22 28:19 29:3,7 54:14 54:20 55:6 77:19 86:18,19 111:4 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 122:18 123:18 141:17 148:6 149:14 152:4 Macerich's 149:15 made 9:7 25:1,4 27:25 47:23 52:22 55:14 65:2 76:1 117:2 162:25 Madera 4:24 5:18 magnitude 26:22 main 37:13 40:17 41:24 50:19 69:21 107:4 168:23 maintenance 86:20 major 68:4 135:14 148:18 make 9:5,5,6 14:2 16:7 17:2 24:20,22 29:17 67:4 70:24 82:5 84:14 90:13 109:5,16 117:5 134:4 155:22 171:14 makes 116:22 117:7 makeup 53:6 making 17:9 38:3 108:8 109:15 171:23 mall 25:8 40:6,6 53:6 61:24 65:7,14 69:2 69:8 78:17 81:2 108:23 123:12 146:12,13,13 169:1 man 57:11 manage 12:5 management 116:5 manager 15:13,21 116:6 managers 137:25 manual 79:25 many 8:12 12:19,22 17:16 30:15 31:23 33:12 39:5 41:7 57:7 63:7 78:12,12 78:13 80:5,6 87:22 95:25 113:24 119:7 122:2 125:19 132:12,13 132:21 139:2 147:5 159:3 map 47:15 March 89:17,18 90:14155:2,13 157:5,11,22 158:17 160:5,16 margin 40:11 market 24:21 119:21 134:6- marketplace 25:14 159:7 marks 48:5 mark-ups 160:11 Marston 55:22 56:2 mass 23:3 107:4,4 massive 26:25 Master 4:13 5:4 masting 32:12,13,23 40:18 masting's 32:10 match 30:14 155:9 materials 125:6 matter 7:17 44:4 79:22 132:10 133:3 148:14 matters 17:7 79:20 maximum 39:25 may 9:5,6 10:6 11:16 11:18 15:22 16:1 20:3,5 22:7,22 24:20 25:12,12 26:16,18 31:7 36:3 44:22 46:18,18 51:24 52:17,18 57:2 58:9 59:5 65:2 69:2,8 74:9 78:2179:3,3 85:22 89:5,6 90:22 109:1 109:4,4,5 113:3 126:20,20 139:1 150:8,8163:16 167:6 168:4,9 maybe 10:22 31:21 35:13 46:24 51:24 57:9 65:3,4 66:16 71:16 73:2 76:23 113:8 116:15 121:25 135:13,14 137:5 148:24 152:21,21 162:9 Mc 157:12 MCG 150:16 mean 14:5 16:24 24:4 25:22 26:19 27:5 30:133:3,4 36:3,6 42:13 44:21 46:17 65:2 66:2 70:18 88:6 100:14 102:7,22103:3 105:4 117:3,12 119:19 120:23 134:1 141:4145:5 147;3,7 meaning 88:13 107:3 108:17 145:1 means 8:24 78:13 84:7 97:6 144:21 144:25 145:3 meant 31:13 measures 78:22 meat 71:23 medication 9:15 meet 81:3 82:1 125:17 meeting 5:3 80:23 Page 181 93:23 94:2,9,10,17 94:18,22,24 95:5 99:25 100:5 142:24,24 143:6 151:6,8,9 meetings 94:22,25 95:6,8,10,14 meets 53:20 memo 83:7 155:2 166:22 memorandum 4:23 5:25 6:12,13 82:22 167:6 168:9 mention 12:23 mentioned 33:11 41:3 136:3 mentions 100:12 merchandise 127:25 Mervyn's 27:11,19 63:13 81:12,15,16 113:16 114:5 115:6,6 116:17,19 116M,25 117:15 118:6 151:15,17 152:22;23 159:6 message 89:25 93:19 93:21 met 75:17 Michael 139:10 Michell 93:17 middle 109:11 Midwest 13:1 might 46:4,25 51:9 56:10 79:8 83:8 100:20,24103:2 119:18 121:11 134:10 137:8 141:24 163:5 165:20 Mike 37:6 45:22 million 49:25,25 61:14 105:11,16,20 105:21,23 120:1 154:17165:5 mind 27:9 68:15 74:8 106:21 Minneapolis 158:23 minor 146:25 minus 11:19 minute 75:7 minutes 5:3 93:23 94:2,8,18,22 95:1,4 142:24 151:6,8 miscellaneous 93:16 misplaced 171:18 misspells 48:25 mistake 72:22 mitigate 78:22,24 mitigated 148:4,7 149:3 mitigation 78:22 mix 24:22 26:10 91:6 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINUTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 91:7 118:11,13,13 modifications 102:8 modify 28:21 moment 34:15 90:11 money 67:13 76:7 85:12 88:17149:8 Monkey 59:15 Mont 117:18 Monterey 118:23 Montgomery 27:15 27:19 32:14 34:6,8 34:20 35:3 58:14 59:3,6,13,15 60:9 63:13,20 64:14 65:6,16,19100:14 102:12 117:4,11,15 118:5 131:20 132:1 140:4 142:9 152:20 Montgomery's 32:20 131:24 132:19 147:6,8 month 57:10 months 89:14.90:11 90:20 103:10,11,12 161:20 Moore 130:15 131:1 more 23:6 33:1,18 33:22 50:2 51:11 51:12,12 78:12,13 78:20,21 80:15 85:5 98:15 102:8 105:17 107:19 108:12 112:22 117:6 120:14 129:8 138:14 149:7 151:8 167:24 171:5 morgan 3:9 5:4,5,20 86:24 94:1 110:7 170:20 Morley 49:1,2,22 50:10 134:23,24 135:7 most 12:5 28:25 31:22 36:2 37:12 39:18 40:22 53:23 58:22 68:15 72:11 92:10 9*15' 137:22140:1- 162:11 163:10,10 163:15 mostly 124:15 motion 67:15 135:17 Mount 136:10 mouth 99:11 move 32:25 33:20 35:13 62:20 70:2 - 73:14 78:1190:20 91:3 93:21 109:21 110:19 115:13 149:21 151:17,18 moved 26:8 61:4 114:6 161:9 movie 43:5,8,14 44:15,19 75:8 movies 115:11 moving 8:4 40:15 62:14 65:3 66:14 167:23 much 32:6,16 33:9 42:13 53:1,7 55:8 78:7 80:4,13 85:15 87:17 98:15 107:19 118:4 119:15 120:25 126:4135:3,12,13 144:23 145:2 148:11 155:9 159:23 170:24 171:1 multiple 6:711:3,21 17:15 multi -color 153:16 multi -family 16:6 multi -level 137:25 Must 141:19 myself 14:1019:1 50:6 M-a-c-e-r-i-c-h 77:19 N 4:1 name 7:13,15,16 19:2,3 50:11 51:23 59:15 75:4 99:15 101:10 134:12 139:11 158:24 names 61:14137:8 137:12 national 11:6,7 nationally 80:1 nature 52:16 65:10 94:23 Navy 38:20,23 39:6 39:10,10,13 near 86:1 nearly 119:20 necessarily33:3 39:1 56:7 70:9 123:13 167:21 necessary 171:14 need 20:123:1,5 27:4 33:8,19 53:9 53:11 63:25 64:11 65:16 71:21 81:14 85:16,16 88:18,23 91:16 98:9,9,9 100:10104:7 114:2 115:7 126:5 134:3,3 147:20,22 148:3 167:19,21 171:5,9 needed 17:14 39:23 64:7 82:18 122:15 needs 25:5 80:24 110:8 114:2 146:6 161:8 Neg 148:4,7 negative 149:3 negatively 53:3 negotiations 132:11 neighborhoods 78:16 Neil 140:24 never 8:16,17 53:3 56:5,5 92:9159:10 new 17:3 33:2,3,17 33:18,22 46:12,14 55:2 64:9,9,23 65:7,19 78:7 85:17 85:20 102:13 104:1,7 109:9 124:17 127:17 128:22,23132:20 135:4 144:10 149:17 152:3,7 169:1 newly 65:14 news 46:21,21 next 48:152:7,7 71:25 80:18 89:4,5 89:6108:15 119:21 126:13 next -door 113:16 nice 61:18 nightclub 24:24 night's 9:16 nondiscretionary 97:9 none 161:14 non -conforming 142:9 normally 85:10 94:18,19125:3 Norman 139:22 north 75:16 81:16 northerly 81:20 Northwest 84:21 note 29:17 115:23 notebook 74:10 170:25 notes 83:15,20 nothing 8:25 27:6 nothing's 43:25 notice 4:8 10:12 not -meeting -code 109:10 November 14:23 84:21 86:8 103:4 nowadays 123:19 nowhere 85:25 number 4:18 7:21 8:614:1818:7 49:4,10,11 73:1 80:19 81:24 84:8 126:12,13 156:7 167:19168:7 170:16 numbered 131:5 numbering 9:20 29:1 49:14 72:14 131:9 numbers 59:4 84:9 84:10 165:21 number's 167:19 numerous 50:5 72:19,25 nuts 44:1 Oakland 11:5 oath 8:23,23 obviously 28:20 78:5 91:14,16 129:24 occasion 79:6 occupied 78:18 occur 89:20 90:11,15 ocean 42:14 October 48:22 49:5 54:3,19 55:16 58:16 59:20 60:14 61:3 62:2171:5 73:22 74:7,20 75:11,2176:11 82:11,23 103:4 off 9:23,23,2416:1 17:25 18:1,17,18 54:22 59:18 62:10 65:4 79:7,9,11 90:2,12 92:23,24 107:13,20108:9 120:13 132:23- 161:8,10 offend 117:24 offending 117:25 offhand 51:18,24 131:3 office 16:2,519:2 30:13 35:1145:3,6 94:15,16 95:10 130:25 152:6 officer 171:12 offices 2:23 3:3,8 11:5 95:6143:11 171:16 official 15:22 109:14 officials 95:13 often 56:22 ob 11:2126:19 28:14 34:2 42:8 47:17 79:193:21 103:1 107:24121:13 129:22133:7,11 134:17 142:1 152:23 165:3 170:12 okay 11:212:19,25 7ILI0 & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 182 13:1418:2120:9 22:2,6 28:2 29:14 29:17 30:15 34:20 35:14 36:2 37:20 38:10 45:23 49:7 49:15 51:2155:15 58:2,13 59:2 60:5 61:13,23 62:20 ' 63:17,24 70:2 71:2 72:2173:12,24 74:2 76:2177:25 82:20 86:5 87:5 88:24 89:2 93:21 94:12,20 100:12 106:25 109:12,21 111:2113:7,12,18 114:8 115:2,13 116:8 120:20 121:4,10 122:4 123:7 124:13 133:25 136:15 138:4,9139:6 145:16,18 147:1 149:10150:7 152:11 154:6,21,23 155:11 156:8 157:1 162:17 163:17 169:22 old 27:8 32:1136.23 38:20,23 39:5,10 39:10,13 51:6 87:5 103:25 110:25 141:19 147:3 148:5 152:4,5 older 103:7 136:19 once 33:12 52:8 54:18,19 56:23,23 57:9 78:14 90:7 105:14 ones 45:12 73:1 104:11,12 128:16 one -file 71:22 one-story �9:17 ongoing 56:25 58:9 only 13:4,4,8 18:15 26:1133:23 36:8 58:4 61:3 65:15 72:17 127:1 133:13 141:5 163:9 onramp 79:12 on -site 79:4,7 86:20 OPA 100:25 101:1 open 62:2,4 115:1 136:17 open-air 61:24 114:24 115:2 operating 146:14 opinion 25:23,24 27:7 65:6,8 96:12 98:14 117:17 118:3 144:14 opinions 155:23 opportunity 9:4 32:22 opposed 117:3 orange 1:4 2:3 25:10 oranges 91:7 order 9:21 30:19 31:13 128:1 166:21 original 36:3,6 45:7 83:9,12 121:21 122:18 148:23 171:17,18,25 Originally 121:10 Osvaldo 20:1 other 13:19 16:21,25 38:21 39:11,15 41:3 56:4,8,24 57:24 60:21 65:17 68:5 72:11 85:5 94:21 96:11 113:15 115:8,8 116:14 117:11 119:5 131:25 137:7 138:5 145:18 146:16,17 148:12 150:14 155:20 others 19:2 ought 24:23,24 ourselves 144:11 out 17:6 24:17 27:6 31:23 36:3,25 38:25 39:1 45:2,23 46:4,18 47:21,23 50:1,2 52:3,15 55:24 56:13 61:2 68:14 69:24 72:18 76:6 78:11 81:9 82:1 88:17 91:20 91:22 92:17 98:3 105:22 111:5 115:4 118:25 119:7,12 123:18 131:4,16 145:6 150:14 152:9 158:15 160:15 166:21 167:23 171:3,4 outdated 33:18 108:5 109:10 outdoor 27:10 outline 43:13,14 outside 21:18 40:14 41:23 58:3,4 out -building 64:8 over 8:22 19:5 21:14 23:3,4 24:8 33:21 33:24 40:9,10 41:25 42:6 49:19 59:3,24 61:4,5,5,6 74:16 84:3 87:13 87:21 100:9 104:8 105:14,16 106:19 107:11 120:22 126:20 128:25 129:2 136:15 142:2 150:20 156:19 161:20 overdue 26:10 overviews 143:17 own 25:24 33:6 91:14 132:9 138:23,25 owner 52:10 89:21 91:21 92:11,13 101:2 123:1 owners 25:22 92:5 119:14 123:20 package 24:8 33:13 56:11 page 4:2 22:15 28:11 47:14,14 48:1 63:12 64:12 69:1 95:18 138:15 144:9 pager 122:3 . pages 10:10 48:3 63:7,8 74:14 93:2 93:14 122:2 128:14 147:12 148:21 149:23 170:16 paid 76:8 88:8,10,11 96:17 paintings 138:11,19 140:21 paper 19:10 36:15 46:20 93:2 128:7 128:11 151:1 paragraph 149:10 Paraphrasing 144:7 Paris 120:23 Park 118:23 parking 21:25 23:4,5 31:16 32:9 42:19 46:11 64:21 77:18 77:18 78:3,9 80:20 80:22 81:2,3,6,10 .81:23,25 82:3,5 102:3 125:15,19 126:5 127:10 128:23 133:14 164:2,4,11,11,25 165:5 167:13,14,20 167:25 168:7 part 18:13 28:8 50:6 61:24 88:1,25 92:21 95:22 99:18 99:21 107:18 109:25 115:2 121:25 122:17 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 124:20 149:15,22 169:2 partial 18:11 30:17 31:13 90:24 partials 30:20 participation 91:22 92:11,13 101:2 particular 11:11 21:25 24:17 40:2,3 54:23 57:3 60:24 64:1166:10 84:16 89:13 96:19 114:1 137:1,9 161:15 particularly 96:3 144:12 parties 38:10 84:17 90:8 92:16 partly 67:4 partners 19:21 136:11 parts 27:24 170:25 party 8:14,15 past 36:2 60:21 102:25 Paul 15:8 30:2 35:22 37:13,13,18 54:12 65:23 66:2 71:10 119:14 131:1 135:15 138:2 157:3,5,10 163:21 paving 5 1: 10 pay 52:19 88:18 96:7 96:10 119:6,8 123:11,13,16 paying 119:21 payments 168:22,22 pays 96:6,6 pen 43:12 Penalty 172:4 penetrometer 47:19 Penny's 147:11 people 18:24 20:24 34:7 39:2 48:19 52:16 57:17,18,25 58:4 67:21 90:4 95:9,14 116:12 117:25 118:2,6 128:4 138:1 145:21 156:9 159:19 160:14 161:12 167:23 per 30:1 35:22 71:10 76:20 79:23 81:7,7 82:17 119:4,16 120:18 124:18 132:25 152:6 166:13 167:25 percent 96:5 108:13 109:16 percentile 135:5 percipient 8:14 perfect 26:6 115:10 perhaps 56:12 64:8,9 85:7,13 86:19 128:17 156:2 Perjury 172:4 permit 87:18 88:1,2 88:3,24 89:11 90:9 90:19 97:11 98:18 100:15 permits 87:14,16 89:11,16,18 90:16 90:24 91:9,1192:8 97:5,9,9,14 person 15:8 18:3 33:14 35:22 37:14 37:15 45:22 46:23 51:25 57:4 96:20 110:10 168:16,23 personal 118:3,7 personally 34:22 55:23 57:9 60:5,8 64:5 67:22 72:22 116:24 133:21 persons 15:5 perspective 32:8 phase 91:5 phone 7:21 14:18 18:7 physical 32:7 Piazza 75:5 Pichell 93:9,11 121:20 Pickell 136:7 picking 27:23 picture 52:3 69:8 Pictures 50:13 51:5 piece 25:21 36:14 123:1 134:3 pieces 27:23 31:4 141:25 pile 17:5 85:4,11 piles 17:3,3,4 67:13 67:19,22 68:3,11 85:6,12,15,17,18 85:23,24 86:3 115:24 pile -supported 67:14 piling 120:15 pin 46:15 pinpoint 76:23 Pircher 93:6 pitch 85:3,10 Pizza 157:6 place 16:22 32:8 56:10 68:9 87:2 113:14 115:5,7,10 120:10 122:17 143:6 159:11 169:2 171:19 places 118:3 plaintiff 1:8 2:7,21 3:2 7:6 planning 32:8 71:25 Page 183 86:16 88:14 97:14 97:15 123:19 138:3 140:20 plans 8:4 22:3 24:3 28:22,23 29:23.24 29:25 30:6, 8,14,15 30:23,24 31:5,7,10 31:10,12,17 35:6,8 35:21 37:9 41:14 45:3,3,24 46:2,16 48:10,18,20 52:12 52:13,23 62:9,11 66:11 67:11 71:14 72:12,12,16,18,19 73:11 80:8,9 90:8 91:1 98:13 100:13 101:6 106:13 122:18 132:9 137:8 154:20 158:17163:6,25 171:6 play 119:9 played 96:20,20 playing 14:10 98:8 99:14110:9 Plaza 25:94 please 7:14 152:13 plot 112:13 118:22 118:22 plots 45:8 plug 156:19 plus 11:19 76:25 91:17 133:2 pocket 91:15 170:11 pod 91:18 pods 90:25 91:12,17 point 24:21 33:25 36:8 39:1 40:24 49:4 52:6 61:1 66:3 72:25 82:2 85:20,25 86:19 104:25 105:3 106:11,25 110:10 111:15 115:7,25 116:16 126:18 128:24 129:1 136:22 148:8 150:10 pointing 22:15 23:7 42:143:14 48:9 61:8,10,22 64:13 69:25 113:19 114:10 Pomona 71:9,12 74:4,18,21,23 Porter 124:5,15 portion 56:18 portions 106:2 pose 32:14 position 10:19 34:24 138:3 positively 53:2 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER possibilities 27:22 possible 70:23 713 82:6 91:16108:25 144:18,19,23 possibly 31:25162:8 post -its 19:10 potential 24:3 26:11 35:24 131:17 170:6 power 126:15,16 practice 137:12 practicing 116:10 precise 122:13,16,16 122:20,25 123:8,18 predate 87:4 Predominant 107:12 Preferably 107:10 preliminary 47:10 88:14167:12,14 premises 32:5 preparation 101:25 110:13 prepare 9:2 52:14 143:21 147:25 171:10 prepared 22:3,19 46:16 101:22" 143:15 144:9 prepares 28:7 143:19 preparing 17:12 present 53:14 94:10 142:25 president 15:25 press 40:12 pressure 39:21 presume 41:20 44:$ 45:2 pretty 21:19 42:13 52:24 53:1,7 55:8 62:15 80:13 85:14 88:15 95:16 98:23 140:21 147:3 155:9170:24 171:1 previous 25:22 28:19 28:2129:15 48:13 48:19 54:22.85:19 87:12,21.128:16. 141:23146:11,12 164:25.='- previously 29:2,3, pre -application,_. 88:16 pre -development 56:18 pre -entitled 144:24 price 129:24 . .pricing 17:152:21 120:11 129:21 pricings 49:19 primarily 13:3 16:22 57:13 primary 11:10,12 13:1715:5,7 30:23 57:4,24 58:12 principal 10:20,21 11:8 printing 160:15 prior 25:17 26:18,21 54:15 55:5 142:13 142:14 148:4 149:3 prison 148:18 probably 16:419:25 20:3,4,15 22:24 30:19 31:12,22 34:8,9,10 35:4,24 37:12 40:12 48:5 48:19 49:5,17,19 55:3 56:7,7 67:21 68:10,11 72:19 75:4 76:25 78:1 84:16 85:7 86:20 86:25 87:1188:11 90:8,24 92:2195:2 95:4,16 98:14 99:5 103:25 106:20 108:23 109:23 112:15 117:22 121:8 125:2,18 129:10137:23 143:21 145:25 149:17 150:5 152:1,7 155:24,24 156:22 161:22 162:16 163:14,15 171:1 problem 32:1,4,23 33:17 104:9 107:18 115:3 142:11 146:23 161:11 problematic 46:9 problems 32:15 46:19104:6 proceed 98:25 proceeded 105:10 process 8:2016:12 38:5 78:23-98:4 100:23,25 105:13 processes 101:4 Produce 165:19 producer 50:19 product 72:11 production 10:17 18:13 profession 24:21 professional 13:8 27:7116:4 professionally 13:12 25:24 professionals 47:3 116:10 program 22:23 programing 71:25 prohibited 114:4 projects 11:10,21 13:2,5 16:7,21 21:22 60:22 61:15 85:5,19 89:24 90:18 92:10 141:23 proper 81:3 134:12 170:10 properties 1:112:10 153:9 156:12 property 25:2,18,21 28:4 48:15 55:5 123:1,21 proposal 23:22 147:20148:20 149:22 proposed 28:19 48:19 77:20 78:19 123:18 126:9,10 134:25 proposing 34:19 provide 81:6 154:24 167:22,24 168:7 provided 8:3 18:13 provides 167:25 public 88:5 pull 17:5 134:4 purchase 25:17 26:18,2155:5 purchased 55:9 pursuant 9:17 pushing 134:2 put 23:3 24:12 43:9 49:10,11 64:8,21 68:11 72:5 74:8,12 85:17,19 95:23 99:10 104:7,24 109:9 113:20 114:4 120:25 122:25 137:7,7,9,9 137:12 144:16 149:10 160:3 162:25 puts 20:4 putting 33:24 38:23 41:25 68:3 72:4 106:12,14 113:5,13 114:4 122:24 127:14 148:15 157:15 P-i-c-h-e-1-193:12 p.m 172:3 quaint 32:12 quarter 42:11,18,23 42:25 quarters 42:17 question 26:14 44:21 61:21 68:17 80:18 80:25 108:15 113:22 questions 9:3 171:5 quick 23:2 50:1 61:2168:17 95:11 143:4 quicker 98:1 quickly 8:22 quite 37:5 R 159:19,20,25 160:1 Rabe 55:22135:22 radius 79:14 raise 33:7 raised 109:1- raising 27:5 Ralph 118:20 ramp 79:8161:8,10 161:13 Ran 16:5 Randy 152:13,18,19 range 159:4 rate 119:11 rather 27:14,16 41:1 read 37:5133:1 154:3 reading 56:12 170:15 real 33:13 49:8 72:2 120:25 138:1 148:10161:17 reality 92:10 really 12:415:22 26:1127:6 33:16 37:13 40:9,20,23 43:7 52:2 61:18 64:17 71:23,24 72:9,17 80:12 84:1192:7 96:13 96:20 98:7,8115:5 117:4127:25 131:25 134:1,4,17 136:21,21 142:7 144:13,19 145:25 146:21 148:9,10,19 167:2 Realty 140:25 rear 69:24 70:4 127:10 rears 70:5 reason 9:12 45:24 82:19 114:1 128:2 132:6 137:10 141:5 163:13 reasons 171:1 rebuilding 32:21 33:17 rebuilt 109:1 receive 10:10 97:6 JIL_ IO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 184 received 10:5,12 87:1 recent 137:22 140:1 163:10,11,15 Recess 19:12 58:23 123:4 163:19 recollection 102:19 recommend 25:13 26:20 52:9,10 133:18,18 169:2 recommendation 27:152:25 142:5 recommendations 24:23 25:1 recommending 25:15 reconfigure 42:24 reconfigured 104:15 104:17 record 7:13 9:23,24 13:17 17:25 18:1 18:17,18,19 46:10 46:1159:18 73:2 92:23,24123:5 133:17 records 24.6 71:16 157:10 ` record -keeping 20:16 red 8:2 44:20 redeveloped 53:6 redevelopment 13:15 26:25 53:11 92:4 redevelops 123:12 redo 26:6,7 65:20 redoing 40:16 104:1 refer 101:6 references 47:14 referring 30:7 regarding 25:2 27:18 34:7 65:13 74:21 77:4109:17 110:12 144:22 149:11 157:5 169:3 regardless 123:1 regretting 72:24 regulated 98:16 regulations 170:23 reimbursed 88:25 related 11:9 158:25 169:13 relationship 21:24 96:2 relationships 49:23 relax 168:1 remain 144:10 146:20 remember 25:19 50:1151:23 95:24 102:18 139:12 remove 64:21 rendering 4:19 69:2 69:8 137:23 renderings 68:24 70:11 130:1 138:7 140:19 renovations 124:16 rent 119:5,8 repeat 128:20 rephrase 81:1 report 47:11,12,13 83:19 84:12 167:14 reported 77:7 100:3 reporter 2:22 7:7 9:2 171:10,24 reporting 84:12 reports 28:8 represent 7:16 153:17 154:2 representing 37:12 130:17 141:3 represents 32:1 170:14 request 30:2 35:22 49:18 54:12 55:25 71:10 76:20 82:17 124:18 131:1 140:2 152:6 166:13 requested 135:7 150:21 requesting 110:8 requests 38:4 require 91:4 107:23 108:1,4 109:4 149:17 167:25 required 146:18 168:6 requirements 98:3 168:1 requires 108:12 143:16 retaler 35:24 resave 46:12,13 research 125:6 residence 7:17 8:3 148:18 residences 148:13 resident 13:9 26:12 respect 168:24 respond 53:2,2 response 53:1 123:14 responsible 11:3,4,6 restaurant 24:24 60:20,23,25 126:20 167:21 restaurants 38:16 43:20 61:4,5,6 168:3 results 47:24 48:4,7 retail 1:11 2:10 15:25 24:1,10 25:6 25:15 37:19 43:20 68:7 79:23,24 80:1 80:6 81:7,16 119:11 144:5 156:12 167:20 retailer 23:20 24:17 40:2 56:1,3 134:3 170:6 retailers 24:9,19 25:2,11 37:20 38:15,16,18 39:16 39:25 40:22 41:3 102:11 150:13 168:4 retain 171:17 retained 11:24 14:20 17:18,21 49:21 retains 52:10 reuse 17:6 67:12,14 68:14 revenue 88:6 91:15 review 9:4 53:12 81:8 171:14,15 reviewed 158:5 revised 111:15 112:2 161:13 revisions 149:2 165:11 Richard 18:2 130:2 138:22 140:14 151:11 153:6 Rick 131:11 rid 27:19 32:23 66:11 116:23 133:20 142:12 right-hand 42:25 road 8:2 25:8 128:3 roads 28:1 78:22 123:20,21 Robert 94:6,12 100:4 115:21 164:9 role 56:6 60:10,11 98:8 roles 87:10,17 Ron 124:5-- - Rosen6eld 140:24 Rough 49:25 roughly 31:9 102:21 103:9 Rubio's 156:13,18 157:5,10,12 ruins 40:24 rule 120:16 runs 21:18 S 4:6 5:1 6:1 safety 72:7 sake 167:20 sale 54:18,18 128:1 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER sales 85:3,10 132:3 same 8:23 20:10,19 20:20 32:15,24 59:23 70:14 74:15 80:13 83:6 85:13 85:15,22 110:24 111:18,19 124:14 131:1 139:15 140:8 146:20 149:3 151:1 154:7 154:8 156:9 159:21 161:21 164:3,16,17 167:22 save 85:12 135:3 160:14 saving 27:6 saw 50:13 74:4 102:19 138:11 159:8,8 Saver's 153:6 Sawyer 13:23 14:1,7 14:12 15:1 18:2,3 130:2,3 140:14 151:11 Sawyer's 138:22 saying 31:3 59:7 64:17 82:2 84:4 99:11 105:20 121:21 146:24 155:8,10 says 26:5 61:15 80:4 90:20 95:19 98:25 125:16 131:1 144:5 scale 29:23 35:21 70:17,22 scaled 138:18,19 scenario 132:20 scene/streetscape 61:18 schedule 142:5,8 150:22 schematic 52:8,12 schematics 72:1 89:15 144:10 scheme 27:25 82:4 136:21,22 schemes 67:11 135:14 science 12:16 scope 20:2 122:20 148:10 149:22 Scott 16:8,20,21 17:10,11 29:22 30:1 57:8,13 82:17 82:18 84:6 85:7 94:3 96:19,20,22 98:7 99:5,6,10,15 99:22 110:4,7 122:12 138:2 143:2,20 147:21 148:20 149:2 155:7,8,24 158:3 160:10 162:3,25 164:9,24 165:10,17 167:12 Scottsdale 120:2 Scott's 110:9 Sears 127:17 141:4,5 Sears -Roebuck 131:12 seating 106:9,23 second 28:11 43:6 62:7 92:23 97:3 109:25 114:12 128:18 137:3A 139:11 155:24 second -story 55:3 section 61:19,20,22 62:3,3 63:22 69:14 69:25 70:3 107:5 113:8,19,24114:10 114:11,14 143:21 156:24 sections 91:12 security 168:25 169:3 see 10:6 17:6 20:1,15 21:14 25:1131:9 31:15 32:18 34:21 34:22 40:1 41:23 43:17 44:23 47:23 49:20 51:9 53:4 54:17 57:12 59:3 63:7,12 64:22 66:15 68:17 70:20 72:18 73:5 76:2 79:14 81:12,18 85:25 87:15 98:5 98:18 103:21 104:3 105:12 109:11 112:22 114:8,24 119:8 121:14 122:15,22 122:24 123:2 125:4 126:8 127:20 129:7,22 132:16 133:13 134:2 137:3,4,14 137:16 148:24 153:20 156:19 161:18 seeing 118:10 seemed 21:19 seems 81:8 113:23 selection 50:7 self-addressed 171:13 self -standing 64:11 sell 25:23 send 24:3,3,7,17 34:9 37:16 38:7 49:19 52:15 53:1 72:16 90.1 135:7 142:2 Page 185 144:15 156:19 171:12,15 sending 18:11 19:20 21:13 29:23 33:12 35:21 37:9 48:18 48:19,20 49:2,16 59:24 60:22 63:1 71:9 73:3 82:16 111:13,20 112:13 118:21 122:12 124:8 125:14 127:9 130:18 131:1,16 136:11 139:14 140:1,8 150:20 151:14 154:16 155:23 157:9 159:21 160:11,23 162:4 164:3 166:12 sense 16:7 17:7 31:18 102:14 116:22 139:16 sensitive 20:16 sent 35:5,6 36:25 39:2 45:24 46:3- 54:9 55:24 59:4,25 71:15 73:4 74:17 75:20 84:3 86:25 87:12,21 112:2 121:22 122:13 136:15 150:4 152:5 155:21 157:9 163:1 separate 19:9 21:20 64:15,18 71:19 90:25 92:9 98:3 99:20 101:4 108:16 118:24 122:19 separately 19:8 91:10 separation 154:4 September 34:3,11 35:16 45:18,23 47:3 49:5 sequence 72:15 155:20 serious 131:7,7 seriously 150:13 serves 35:1 services 11:25 17:22 set 12:5 14:14 43:24 43:25 61:5 67:15 78:2,3 86:3 90:8 118:2 138:25 157:18,19 settle 49:7 seven 57:16,18 seven -office 11:7 several 20:23 21:22 38:15 shallow 85:11 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00:' 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER - shape 17:6 76:8 shared 167:15,22.. 168:2 sharing 167:13,14 Sharon 157:12, sheet 47:13 74:13 142:18 156:11 166:20 Shoemaker 131:11 shoes 109:9 shop 66:13 shopper 118:8,9 shopping 13:6 39:11 79:2 80:19 117:10 120:12 125:2 shops 43:20 70:15 114:3,4,6,18115:6 115:11 short 47:20 163:17 Shorthand 2:217:7 shot 22:7 55:14. 139:23 155:21,22 shovel89:8 show 51:10,13 161:9 showing 22:13 85:10 134:25 138:15 163:25 164:2 shown 106:15 shows 105:15 sic 93:6 101:17 122:1 122:5 side 8:15 15:12 16:23 33:10 34:20 35:3 65:20 68:6 69:21 69:24 70:13 76:7 91:19 92:6 sides 68:15 sign 36:6170:21 signage 152:2,9 160:11 170:14 signals 78:15 signed 21:1,3 36:3,4 37:22 38:154:20 157:20168:21 171:19 signs 170:22 similar 69:22 81:5 83:11 . simply 73:24; r since 26:8.48:Mf', . 56:25 95:3,3158:5 single 106:&. - ` sit 46:17 66:17, 73:1 sites 157:16=_ siting 32:1 sits 91:14 106:19 sitting 137:3 situation 32:19 §ig 90:19 103:10,12 sixth 47:14 size 125:16 154:17 sized 39:25 sketch 125:15 127:10 128:21 sketches 30:18,20 31:18 skip 74:16 sky 115:1 slab 67:13,15 68:4 68:14 85:18135:3 slabs 67:19 slash 25:15,16 slate 28:3 small 70:15,22 102:10 133:19 smaller 41:1 Smith 5:19 soda 58:21 . soft 116:22160:1, soil 47:23 solicit 38:7 soliciting 37:15' solid 34:4 90:7 some 8:19,22 9:6 11:9 19:10,11,21 23:3,4 28:10 37:9 37:12 43:20,21 45:5,5,10,10;10,10 45:24 49:4 56:4,7 58:21 72:14,15 75:18 7612 78:18 78:2180:3,15 81:9 81:10,23 82:3,19 83:15,19,23 84:8, 85:4 88:11,14 92:4 92:5 98:19102:18 103:22104:5 106:2 115:8 120:11,20125:6 129:2 130:17,17 131:8 134:15 135:4137:2,6,6,10 137:15 141:3 142:22145:16,16 147:2148:16 150:5 156:5 158:7 166:5 171:5- somebody 61:15 84:2,3,9 86:18- 152:20jfi2:14 169:15 somebody's 88:21 somehow 27:18 82:5 someone 38:7 94:19 124:8 129:9 137:10141:3- someone's 46:8 91:15 99:13 someplace 23:5 something 22:9 25:14 26:13 27:4 32:6 34:10 35:13 37:6,8 42:9 50:17 50:24 53:166:9 69:22 87:9 100:21 120:23 123:21 135:6138:13 158:8 162:25 164:3 169:13 170:11,19 sometime 11:17,17 89:4 sometimes 23:2 24:9 24:9 31:14 83:13 83:14 88:10,19 89:24,24 95:8,13 137:14 someway 82:5 somewhat 49:8 69:3 108:22 somewhere 11:23 14:22 22:22 29:15 49:5 89:16102:22 114:5 156:20 son 16:20 Sony 50:13,18 51:5 soon 51:25 91:16 116:23 sooner 89:24 98:1 sorry 14:19 15:18 29:13 42:2 50:11, 61:9 90:17 106:5- 132:17 136:4 sort 14:13 60:3 85:4 88:11,14 91:4 92:4 102:18103:22' 117:2 131:8 144:2 Sounds 170:5 south 18:6 25:9 42:3 42:4 southerly 81:18 Southern 23:21 51:19 so-and-so 24:8 37:16 space 16:2 23:23 24:25 39:13 40:16 44:9,13 46:11 63:20159:23` 168:1 spaces 80:20 81:6,10 82:3 126:13 167:20,22,24168:7 speak 56:22,23 57:5 57:7,9 60:5 speaking 56:13' special 128:1 specialty 24:10 specific 4:18 11:10 17:13,14,15 28:9,9 28:18,21,23 29:2 49:12,13 53:10,20 67:15 72:14 73:3 86:25 88:12 91:4 95:3,4 97:4,22,23 98:199:1,12 100:21 110:9,13 120:2131.7 141:18143:12,16 144:22 145:11,12 145:12152:1 154:16,19155:20 158:4 160:12 164:12 165:12 170:23 specifically 14:9 46:23 104:13 specifications 38:3 specs 169:4 Spectrum 25:9� spell 7:13 13:24 115:4 Spielberg 50:21 spit 120:12 split 126:6 164:12 spoken 60:8 77:1,3 spot 159:10- spring 11:17 sprinkler 88:2 SPs 152:3 SP-12 22:9,15,16,18 23:7 28:13138:17 143:23 152:4 153:21,23,24 SP-13 22:10 28:17 30:22 69:198:12 143:25 144:9 149:19152:4 156:1 SP-2 29:11 square 33:8,9,19 39:5,25 41:7 63:10 77:21,22 79:18,23 80:4,6,10,13,15,20 81:7.83:24 84:18 105:5 113:24 119:4,11,16120:18 132:12,13,21 133:8' 148:10,11 155:8 159:3 164:25 square -foot 113:20' 154:17 stadium 106:9,23 staff 37:1 stage 53:24 71:22 72:23 88:9145:11 stages 90:5 stairs 43:22128:25 129:4,5,7,9 stalemate 105:1 stamped 83:9171:13 stamping 121:2 standard 8:22 137:12 standards 152:2' standing 109:3 start 19:23 33:12 49:7 52:7,8 72:4,9 89:3,10,15129:20 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 186 132:11 161:6 170:23 started 11:16,23 34:2,9 49:4131:6 131:7 starting 30:2,4 54:11 61:12 72:6 78:2 87:13 115:22,24 156:18 161:9 starts 62:6 89:9 145:4 state 1:3 2:2,22 7:13 7:17 12:10 stated 45:4 49:17 statements 28:7 statistical 165:14 status 38:24 stay 32:2176:6 102:13 119:12 stayed 65:17 stays 108:2131:20 step 72:1 Sterling 5:9124:23, still 14:19 26:16 32:18 34:3,13 46:24 52.17,18 ' 53:9 7122 85:13• 97:8121:22 122:22:131:19, 136:14,24142:11 143:12145:11 161:15 stipulated 172:1,2 stone 120:25 Stoner 54:8 stop 122:19 . stopped 105:4 store 132:4,6 stories 106:3 107:6 120:15125:19 147:5,5 story 33:23 107:14 107:15 108:9 133:2 straight 161:18 strata 61:11,11,17 69:14140:16 strategy 89:23 stream 88:6 street 3:10 7:1918:6 40:18,20 42:5 51:12 61:18 123:11 136:23 161:18 streetscape 50:24 51:3,7 61:16 66:5 strike 153:23 strong 52:24 structural 53:6 68:3 72:7 108:10 115:22,23 116:9 structure 21:25 31:24 32:1,14 34:7 41:21 42:19 64:15 64:18,24 66:12,20 66:22 68:2 81:2,9 82:3 106:7,8,21 107:5 108:16,17,24 109:3,4.6 120:16 125:15.19 127:10 128:23 147:4 structures 27:5 68:18,18 85:20 126:24 142:9 studied 148:3 studio 51:6 Studios 50:13,17 study 47:10 77:18 79:14 167:13,14 168:6 stuff 8:23 40:24 52:20 84:8 86:24 87:13 96:21 97:12 99:17 100:10 104:8 105:18 115:12,24 120:25 124:17 133:19 135:7,8 139:1 150:21 159:21 style 51:11,12,12 submit 91:2,9 submitted 141:18 submitting 90:16 subpoena 9:17,19 10:1,5,13 subpoenaed 24:5 subsequent104:12 substantially 120:14 149:20 sub -surface 47:22 48:8 successful 25:12,13 118:11,12 134:5 sued 8:16,17 sufficient 81:2,5 suggested 144:23 suggesting 145:2 suggestions 24:20 25:1,4 summarizing 63:10 164:10 summary 63:1,6,7,9 77:20 165:14 summer 11:17,17 superintendent 116:5 SUPERIOR 1:3 2:2 support 98:8 sure 7:15,19 8:7,21 9:11 14:2 19:20 23:17 29:1 35:4 44:14 54:13 55:12 71:17 80:25 84:14 90:13 107:24 108:6 126:21 128:1 132:23 138:8 139:2 142:7 143:5 153:19 156:4 163:18 166:16 169:15 Surely 43:10 surface 81:23 surprised 28:10 98:22 116:9 surrounding 25:7 78:15 79:16,17 108:25 surveys 134:6 suspect 22:2188:11 101:14 104:10 122:3 125:18 129:20 130:16 134:10,14 141:3,24 143:8 152:5 156:5 156:5 162:16 166:5 Swinerton 139:11,14 Swingerton 50:10 51:17 sworn 7:6 system 29:185:4 systems 72:8 S-a-w-y-e-r 13:25 T 4:6 5:1 6:1 tabulation 165:6 tad 16:1 take 8:24 10:7 13:6 17:17,24 29:8 39:7 58:22 81:23 90:10 95:11 111:5 120:7 124:9 139:22 143:4 158:15 163:17 169:20 171:9 taken 2:20 8:10 19:12 58:23 123:4 163:19 takes 82:3 92:17 taking 4:8-16:11 17:11,12 49:18 99:12 talk 17:24 35:13 120:20 138:5 150:13 talked 39:2 66:19 128:16 talking 31:6 32:21 33:13 34:13,21,23 40:15 41:6,10,25 50:3 54:13,13 64:9 66:13 73:2 91:11 91:24 104:18 106:13 111:16 113:5 115:9 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 117:19.21 127:23 139:12,17 143:12 145:4 159:20 tall 147:2 Target 117:13,23 Tarlos 60:19,19 task 149:8 tasks 11:4 team 57:16 67:20 88:25 95:19,20,22 98:25 137:24 151:3 155:21 Tech 12:18 technical 67:13 telephone 59:4 tell 8:24 66:10 92:2 117:15 119:15 128:25 telling 161:6 ten 26:7 31:13,22,23 49:25 135:14 tenant 40:11 66:21 115:8 116:20,25,25 tenants 24:137:15 131:8 146:3 tends 81:9 141:23 tentative 150:21 term 75:2 97:4 terms 14:13 27:9 32:9,9 40:9 62:11 69:23 102:1 116:13,20138:3 148:10 167:25 tested 67:21 testified 7:7 testimony 9:9,13 text 148:25 Thank 165:4 theater 33:24 43:5,8 43:14,23 44:16,19 62:4 104:7 106:4,9 107:11 114:16 128:24 129:2,6 137:5,6 150:9 167:17,21,22 169:14,16 theaters 38:17 106:22 133:19 150:8 168:4 their 18:5,7 24:12 26:4,18,20 29:9,15 32:22 33:6,13,22 34:7 40:16 47:9,11 50:1151:10,13,23 53:20 56:6,9,14 63:22,24 64:23 76:1 77:17 79:21 88:6 96:2 101:10 101:11 102:4,5 103:21 104:23 109:9 115:12 117:1 122:11 126:3 128:4 132:1 132:3,7 137:11 155:21 161:13 167:14 169:4,16 theme 14:5,11 65:10 themed 70:6 themes 14:11 themselves 106:22 they'd 156:19 thing 20:10,20 26:6 27:10 39:15,24 52:7,20 54:15 57:10 65:9 68:5 85:10 88:4 89:13 100:23 102:2 103:18106:15 107:20109:16 110:24 111:18 116:21 120:7 127:20 133:15 134:4 138:2 139:15 140:8 144:16 151:1 154:8 164:16 168:5 things 20:15 24:21 38:25 39:24 49:6,7 56:12 72:12 75:6 97:14 98:11 120:24 137:15 141:25 153:17 think 11:16 16:5,21 17:19 24:22,23,24 26:5 27:3 28:8 34:17 36:5 38:8,8 38:21 40:12 46:5 48:12 49:25 50:2 53:9,10 66:20 67:6 72:22 74:10 75:4 75:19 76:5 77:18 79:20 80:15 89:1a 90:10 93:15 96:2 97:25 99:3,16 100:24 101:3 102:2 103:9,14 104:1 105:7 106:17 109:8 112:23 116:23 117:17 118:4 119:19,25 121:12 123:15 126:6 132:16,19,20 133:21 142:11,11 142:13 143:20 147:6,8 156:1 159:4,7,8,20 160:2 160:22 162:9 164:24 169:13 thinking 38:23 49:20 65:3,4 89:4 90:22 98:6 102:9 110:16 138:24,24 168:5 Page 187 third 51:21,22,25 52:3 107:14,15 126:3 133:2 though 27:13 70:19 76:5 81:8 94:12 110:15 136:24 142:15 thought 14:8 28:12 28:16 119:25 121:11 148:5 150:8 153:20 thoughts 26:3 three 8:13 10:22 12:25 29:24 31:25 48:3,6 50:5 58:8 63:8,12 76:2 89:14 90:11 93:2 95:18 98:12 101:5,15 106:2 107:6 126:2 128:14 147:5,9 163:5 three-mile 79:14 three -sided 68:5 three-story 32:11 105:19106:1,21 threshhold 146:16 threw 34:11 through 1:13 2:12 17:17 19:9 27:23 28:22 30:14 64:5 87:3 97:8 105:13 132:5 147:19 148:6 throughout 13:2 thumb 120:16 thursday 1:20 2:23 7:1 tie 32:25 65:13 time 11:23 21:17 22:2,24 26:25 33:25 36:23 39:2 49:4 60:24 86:19 89:10 91:19 101:9 104:18 112:2 116:16 126:18 132:9 136:22 137:1 141:24 144:24 148:8 156:5 166:16 times 8:12 33:12 57:7 61:14 66:9 95:25 Tina 150:16 tiny 114:7 tire 65:18 102:5 142:10 title 15:20,22,24 titles 75:8 today 8:23 9:10,13 18:14,21 34:4 35:9 38:24 40:9 48:16 108:22 139:4 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 146:14 147:3 171:7,25 together 21:19- 133:20136:18 143:21 152:25 160:3 164:10,14 165:18 told 65:21,21,22,24 65:24 100:8 146:2 Tom 13:23 14:1,7,12 15:1 18:3 86:17 111:3 130:3 141:16 151:11 tomorrow 125:17 top 107:21 132:23 topic 149:4 total 105:5 totalling 31:4 totally 119:12 touch 108:12 tough 129:10 towards 61:8 62:14 68:12 towers 126:1,2 town 28:1 Toys 159:19 traffic 77:16,23,23 78:2,3,5,9 79:13 81:5 83:3 84:14 88:3,4146:11 148:11 trail 163:3 transcript 9:3,4 171:11 transitioning 36:23 Transmission 4:22 4:23 5:22 transmittals 36:2,23 37:2 48:13 71:19 transmitting 29:25 115:20' 129:19 130:16 153:6 155:19158:8,17 165:11 170:13 transportation 43:21 79:25 106:19 trees 160:14 Tricia 35:21- tried 88:20t, trip 77:23 MI . trouble 137:16r truck 104:5137:1- trucks 1023, true 70:14 trust 88:22 truth 8:25,25 try 14:11 23:22 26:10 30:11,14 31:17 39:3 42:24. 46:18,22 67:9,12 76:6 88:2191:2 94:21 156:19 trying 31:18 32:6,10 33:14 39:15 40:25 42:13 52:25 56:11 65:10 67:3 70:16 70:21 72:12 75:5 77:21 78:2,3 81:22 98:19 107:1 117:5 142:3 160:14 169:13 Tsutsui 2:21 tuchman 2:24 3:3 tune 56:13 turn 98:24 Tustin 8:211:4,5 two 10:10,22 26:10 30:17,22 31:5,25 35:21 37:9 42:18 48:3,6 50:5,22 51:5 57:24 58:11 64:12 70:19 74:14 77:10 80:8,9 89:14 90:10 93:2 98:13 106:22120:14 121:13 122:13 126:1,1,4,7 133:14 147:6,8 154:17 158:5 163:5 164:3 166:12170:25 171:1,5 two-story 32:12 39:16,19,23,24 43:17 107:20 type 27:10 75:6 92:15 117:5,14 127:16,20146:22 168:5 types 87:22148:15 typewritten 84:9 typical 26:19 49:23 88:15 139:16,16 typically 28:139:7 39:15,16 52:24 60:2161:14 72:10, 79:13 88:23 90:19 92:6,15 96:8,9,13 98:15,15 ugly 32:11 Uh-huh 37:24 43:4 66:6,25 67:7 68:21 - 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HUNTINGTON CENTER 162:3,21 164:9 165:10,17 166:4,11 170:19 171:3,8 wondering 165:19 word 48:25 170:10 words 16:25 65:17. 96:11 99:10 119:5 146:17 155:20 work7:23 12:15 13:2 14:13,17 15:8 15:9,12 20:2 50:23 51:11,13 52:11,19 53:23 55:2 59:8 60:20 66:18 72:2 72:11 79:8 96:5 102:2 116:12,13 121:8 122:20 144:14,16 145:6 147:21 149:22 150:20 156:18 158:14 161:12 worked 15:1 21:21 60:21 82:1 91:22 103:18 123:17 143:20 worker 58:1 working 10:23 15:6 17:19 18:24 34:13 38:14,19 54:21 57:17 59:7,13 60:24 62:9 79:9 86:25 92:17 112:4 118:23 138:2 152:9 157:2 166:6 works 11:21 17:10 19:3,4 37:19 53:13 68:3 78:23 88:5 96:8,9,11 121:2 123:19 124:19 world 46:20,2158:3 68:7 78:5 127:16 worn 171:3,4 worried 161:12 worth 27:6 119:20 wouldn't 67:3 70:7,9 114:24 wrestled 97:25 161:20 wrestling 75:3,3 161:15 write 144:1 writing 95:4 wrong 32:11 65:3 82:2 137:8 148:15 X 4:1,6 5:1 6:1 120:18 167:19 Xs 126:14 X-amount 81:6 yeah 10:7 11:19 14:2 18:17 19:11 25:3 26:19 27:6 28:18 28:24,25 29:15 37:4,23 41:12 42:13 46:13 51:20 52:153:9 55:10 56:16 57:3 58:7,10 67:21 78:12 79:1,8 82:2 83:9,16 89:7 92:3 93:13 94:17 94:22 95:23 98:15 99:7 100:18 102:1 102:2,13,17 104:18 106:16,20 107:12 109:23,24 115:15 117:22 118:1,1 119:5 120:4121:3 121:7,7 123:10 124:12 126:13 129:11 132:9,16 134:18 135:1,I 140:22 142:15 144:3 145:10,14,15 146:21 147:6,11,11 149:13 150:22 152:25 153:1,21 156:4 157:16 159:13 164:2,15 165:1,3 166:19 year 11:17 years 10:22,24 16:4 26:7 109:13 117:9 yellow 36:14,21,22 yesterday 46:11 Yup 63:16 zip 153:13 162:4 163:1 165:11 Zobe 37:7 Zoob 37:6 45:22 #18923 5:9 0-page 6:14,15,15 OOCC063091:8 2:7 0041 130:16 131:3 1 1:13 2:12 9:19 28:22 48:22 49:3,3 63:5,11 64:13 72:19 99:1 136:20 147:14 149:2 1st 148:24 151:9 1-page 4:8,9,9,10,10 4:11,11,12,12,13 4:13,15,15,16,16 4:11,17,18,19,20 Page 189 4:21,21.22,25 5:4,4 5:5,5,6,6,7,8,8,9,9 5:10,10,11.12,12 5:13,13,14,15,15 5:16,16,17,17,18 5:18,20,24 6:5,5,7 6:8,8,10,11,13,14 1/ 10/00 5:14,14 1/12/00 5:15,15,16 5:16 1/14/00 5:17,17.18 1/22/99 5:18 1/26/00 5:19 1/26/2000142:23 113100 5:10,10,11 1/4/00 5:11 115100 5:12 1/6/00 5:12,13 1/7/00 5:13 101:13 2:12 4:8 45:18 112:7 115:17 118:15 135:21 151:11 loth 45:23 10/1/99 4:15 101131" 4:16 101151" 4:16,17,20 10/18/99 4:17,18,19 4:20 10/21/99 4:21,21,22 10/27/99 4:22,23,23 10151" 4:15 100 5:20 35:21 40:21 132:20 149:24 150:2 1015:4,21 150:15,17 102 5:21 151:2,4 103 5:22 151:10,12 104 5:22 151:20,22 105 5:23 152:12,15 106 5:23 153:2,3 107 5:24153:8,10 108 5:24 154:9,11 109 5:25 155:1,3 1128:22 141:18 167:6 11-by-17 29:24 11/20/97 4:24 111301" 4:25 110 5:4,5 6:3 155:12 155:12,14 1115:5,6 6:3 156:11 156:14 112 5:6 6:4 157:4,7 113 6:4 157:11,13 114 6:5 157:22,24 115 5:7 6:5 158:16 158:19 1166:6 159:15,16 117 6:6 160:4,6 118 5:7 6:7 160:16 160:18 )ILIO.& ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00- BURLIN% ,ON V. 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Page 190 130:10 5-page 4:22,23 5:14 5:19,23 6:3,4,9,13 5111/00 6:12 5/12/00 6:13 50 4:17 30:19 31:3,9 . 31:19 40:2160:13 60:15 120:1 500 88:24 514:18 62:20,22 63:4,8 64:12 52 4:18 69:1,5,22 70:11 130:6 138:10 53 4:19 69:7,11,23 70:11 106:17 130:6138:10 54 4:15,19 22:15 71:4,6 74:8,13,13 55 4:16,20 73:15,16 56 4:20 74:19,22,24 574:2175:10,12 58 4:16,2176:9,10 76:12 594:17,22-77:10,12 6130:20131:11 6/19/00 6:13 6/27/00 6:14 6/29/00 6:11 60 4:17,22 82:11,12 159:4 614:23 82:22,24 62 4:18,23 83:18,21 63 4:24 84:19,23 63018:6 633 3:10 64 4:24 86:7,10 92:25 93:3 65 4:25 92:19 93:4,7 66 5:3 93:22,24 98:24110:1 67 5:4101:8,12,18 101:21 102:16,19 103:10 125:24,25 68 5:4110:3,5 694:18,19 5:5 110:20,21 7110:3 111:3 134:20 161:25 163:21 164:6,18 7/27/99 4:8,9,9 70 5:5 31:3,9,19 111:8,9 120:1 714:19 5:6 111:21 111:23 714)259-0500 7:25 714)960-3605 7:22 72 5:6 112:7,9 73 4:20 5:7 115:17 115:18 74 4:20 5:7118:14 118:16 121:4 75 4:21 5:8 30:19 121:16,17 76 4:21 5:8 122:4,7 77 4:22 5:9 123:23 124:1 78 5:9 124:22,24 79 5:10 125:8,10 8155:13 8-page 4?24. 8/13/99 4:10 8/20/99 4:10 8/25/99 4:11 80 5:10 127:3,5 80,000159:4 815:11 128:6,8 82 4:22,23 5:11 129:12,14 83 4:23 5:12130:9 130:11 84 4:24 5:12 130:19 130:21 85 5:13 131:10,13 86 4:24 5:13 134:19 134:21 87 5:14 135:20,23 88 5:14 136:6,8 89 5:15 137:18,20 896-2512 3:11 9111:8,22 9,003165:2 9-page 4:8 9/145:23 9/1/99 4:12 36:14 9/10/99 4:13 9/16/99 4:14 9/22/99 4:11 9:571:20 2:23 7:1 90 5:15 139:7,8 900165:2,2. 900,000105:7,8 164:25 90010 3:5 9003618:6 90071-2040 3:11 9038 2:22 915:16 139:18,20 92 5:16 26:8 140:3,5 92648 7:20 92780 8:2 93 4:25 5:3.17 140:10,11 938,625 165:3 94 5:17 140:23 141:1 95 5:18 135:5 141:7 FRANK CODA, 07.27.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 141:9 %5:18 141:13,14 97 5:19 92:20 142:18 142:19 147:12 98 5:19 147:13,15 148:21 99 5:20 11:18 14:24 14:25 20:3 26:16 26:18 47:3 55:17 57:2 58:16 59:20 71:5 73:22 74:20 75:11 76:1182:11 82:23 93:23 96:5 103:1,5 110:3 122:6 149:1,5,23 Page 191 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JIL10 & ASSOCIATES ORANGECI LINTY LDSANGELES INLAND EMPIRE SA\ DIEGO l y'1 NATIONWEDF. FA(S11MR1 (714) 43bTlu (800) 801.9148 o fIX49 hupJ/www.jMQxw wmutrepm W 4 3090 Bristol Street Suite 100 Costa Mesa California 92626 August 14, 2000 FRANK CODA c/o GREENBERG, FARROW ARCHITECTURE ENGINEERING DEVELOPMENT 5101 Red Hill Avenue, Suite 200 Tustin, CA 92780 RE: BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY vs. HUNTINGTON CSNTSR Dear Mr. Coda, Enclosed is the original of your deposition. Please read it, make any corrections or changes by putting a single line through the words to be corrected in ink and inserting any changes directly above. n&UN INITIAL EACH CHANGS. After reading and correcting your deposition, please do one of the following: Sign your deposition before any Notary Public in his/her presence. _XX_ Read and sign your deposition under Penalty of Perjury. Then send your transcript to Mr. Cohen. Your immediate attention to this matter will be greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, you should contact your counsel. Very truly yours, Julie Bell Jilio & Associates cc: Loren Cohen Alan J. Watson JB/jd DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 3 4 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE ) OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 6 California Corporation, ) 7 Plaintiff, ) 8 vs: ) Case No. OOCCO6309 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) a Delaware Limited Liability ) VOLUME 11 10 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) (Pages 165 - 324) a Delaware Limited Liability ) 11 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) Delaware Limited Liability Company, ) 12 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive, ) 13 Defendants. ) ) 14 15 16 17 18 DEPOSITION OF: 19 DAVID C. BIGGS 20 FRIDAY, JULY 28, 2000 21 22 23 24 25 165 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 3 4 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE ) OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 6 California Corporation, ) 7 Plaintiff, ) 8 VS. ) Case No. OOCCO6309 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) a Delaware Limited Liability ) VOLUME U 10 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) a Delaware Limited Liability ) 11 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) Delaware Limited Liability Company, ) 12 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive, ) 13 Defendants. ) 14 15 16 17 18 19 The Deposition of DAVID C. BIGGS, taken on behalf 20 of the Plaintiff, before Amy Saylor, Certified Shorthand 21 Reporter No. 11560, Registered Professional Reporter, for 22 the State of California, commencing at 2:09 p.m., on 23 Friday, July 28, 2000, at the Law Offices of Aviv L 24 Tuchman & Associates, located at 3435 Wilshire Boulevard, 25 30th Floor, Los Angeles, California. 166 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 3 AVIV L TUCHMAN & ASSOCIATES BY: AVIV L TUCHMAN, ESQ. 4 3435 Wilshire Boulevard 30th Floor 5 Los Angeles, California 90010 (213) 385-8000 6 7 8 FOR WITNESS DAVID C. BIGGS- 9 KANE, BALLMER & BERKMAN BY: R. BRUCE TEPPER, ESQ. 10 515 South Figueroa Street Suite 1850 11 Los Angeles, California 90071 (213) 617-0480 12 13 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 14 WHITMAN, BREED, ABBOTT & MORGAN, LLP BY: ALAN J. WATSON, ESQ. 15 633 West Fifth Street Twenty -First Floor 16 Los Angeles, California 90071 (213)896-2512 17 18 19 20 221 2 23 1 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 INDEX EXAMINATION BY MR. TUCHMAN — EXHIBITS Page 5 167 Page 9 Plaintiffs Description Marked 10 137 Document entitled "The Crossings 238 at Huntington Beach" 11 138 Specific Plan No. 12 285 12 139 Request for Redevelopment Agency Action 317 13 14 15 16 INFORMATION REQUESTED 17 (None.) 18 19 20 WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER 21 PAGE LINE 22 308 18 23 24 25 168 1 (Pages 165 to 168) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Friday, July 28, 2000; 2:09 p.m. Los Angeles, California DAVID C. BIGGS, called.as a witness by and on behalf of the Plaintiff, and having been first duly sworn by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined and testified as follows: FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Mr. Biggs, do you have any changes or additions to anything that you testified to a couple days ago? A. No. Q. Okay. Have you talked about your deposition with anybody since a few days ago? A. Since the deposition? Q. Yes. A. Yes, just in general Q. Who did you talk to? A. Let's see, my secretary, my wife, let's see, Gus Duran. We sort of talked about our experiences jointly. Let's see, Mr. Kane, Mr. Tepper's firm. That's 169 probably about it. Q. What did you discuss with Mr. Duran? A. How to get here, you know, the pleasant experiences being interviewed by you, just generally that kind of thing. We didn't talk about any specifics about the deposition. Q. Did Mr. Duran tell you what questions I asked him? A. No, not that I recall. Q. Did you discuss the answers that you had of your deposition? A. No. Q. When you say your secretary, do you mean Bobbie or is there someone else? A. Linda. - Q. We were talking about Exhibit 7 before. Do you have the.— we were talking about Exhibit 7 before, which is the June 5th memo. And I just have a few follow-up questions on it. A. Sure. Q. Do you know who typed it? A. No, not offhand. I think that was the response I gave last time. Q. I did not ask who typed it up. Do you recognize the computer from which it was generated? 170 r DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON� 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you type up Exhibit 7? 3 . A. I don't recall. I don't believe so. 4 Q. Okay. Did you type up — the first time that you 5 saw that exhibit, on what day? 6 A. I don't recall. 7 Q. Okay. Let me have that back, please. Do you 8 know if Exhibit 7 was authored by Kane, Ballmer? 9 A. I don't recall. I don't know offhand. 10 Q. Do you have any knowledge of who authored the 11 memo? 12 A. No, not — I don't have any clear recollection of 13 it. I was actually out of town, I think, of the days 14 leading up to its preparation. 15 Q. When did you fast learn of the memo? 16 A. I don't recall specifically. 17 Q. Take a look at Exhibit 15. Exhibit 15, the last 18 page is the June 5th memo, and it has a little bit of 19 writing in parentheses. It says "G: JM." Do you recognize 20 this code? 21 A. Where is that? . 22 Q. Bottom of page 3 of Exhibit 15. 23 A. No. 24 Q. Do you recognize the initials J.M.? 25 MR. WATSON: You're talking about the footer on 171 1 the bottom? 2 MR. TUCHMAN: Yes. 3 THE WITNESS: Not specifically, no. I mean, 4 there's a City attorney named Jennifer McGrath. Jane James 5 used to be Jane Madera, so I don't know if those are her 6 initials or not. 7 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 Q. Does this come from a City -generated server, this 9 reference? 10 A. I couldn't tell you, so there's nothing in there 11 that would indicate one way or the other. I don't know 12 offhand if it is or not. 13 Q. Did you ever ask anybody -- ask anybody who 14 authored Exhibit 7? 15 A. I don't recall. 16 Q. Okay. Did you ask -- did you talk to Mr. Silver 17 about his deposition? 18 A. No, his deposition was after mine. We missed -- 19 we didn't talk until the next day. 20 Q. Did you talk about the deposition? 21 A. Oh, yes, just in generai, how it went and how 22 long this was; you know, what time did he get to leave. 23 Q. Did you discuss Exhibit 7, the June 5th memo? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did you discuss the fact that he stated he didn't 172 2 (Pages 169 to 172) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 author it? A. No. Q. Did you know he didn't author it? A. Oh, I knew he didn't author IL Q. How did you know that? A. Well, we discussed it prior to the depositions. Q. Well, what did you discuss about it? A. Pardon? Q. What did you talk about with him? A. I just knew he hadn't authored IL Q. Did he tell you who authored it? A. No, he didn't. Q. Are you aware if Mr. Silver knows who authored the June 5th memo, which is Exhibit 7? A. He might. I don't recall who authored it, so I don't know whether he does or not. We've not specifically discussed that. Q. Did Mr. Duran tell you that someone from Kane, Ballmer authored Exhibit 7? MR. TEPPER: Oh, that's a misleading statement, and that's -- Mr. Duran didn'tsay anything such thing, so ask another question, sir. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. You can answer the question: A. No, not that I'm aware of. I don't recall 173 discussing it with him specifically. Q. Did anybody at the City say to you, Mr. Biggs, that the memo which is Exhibit 7, the June 5, 2000, memo, was authored by a member of Kane, Ballmer? A. Not that I recall. Q. Okay. We were talking about when the agency is an applicant and not an applicant. Is there ever an instance where the City is not an applicant for a specific plan? A. When It's not in a redevelopment project area. Q. Okay. Any other instances? A. When the agency is not an applicant for a specific plan? Q. Correct. A. Not that I'm aware of Q. Okay. And just so I have your title right, you're the Director of the Economic Development Department for the City of Huntington Beach? .: A.- Yes Q. Okay. Back to Exhibit 15, we did not cover that in your deposition. MR. TUCHMAN: Do you have a copy or do you need another one? MR. TEPPER: I have one. 174 1- BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 15? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. The attachment I do. 6 Q. The third page I went over extensively. Did you 7 ever see the cover sheet which says, "To Mr. Scott Dinovitz 8 from Jane Madera"? 9 A. Not that I recall. 10 Q. Okay. And did you have a discussion with 11 Scott Dinovitz, paren, June 7 and June 9, 2000? 12 A. June 7 and June 9, 2000, not that I recall. 13 Q. Okay. Do you know why this memo was sent to 14 Scott Dinovitz from Jane Madera? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did you ever discuss why Jane Madera, who is now 17 Jane James, sent any memos to Scott Dinovitz regarding who 18 is the applicant on the specific plan? 19 A. Could you repeat the question? 20 Q. Please read the question back. 21 (Whereupon the previous question was read 22 back by the court reporter as requested.) 23 THE WITNESS: When you say "discussed," 24 discussed with whom? 25 /// . 175 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 Q. Discussed with Scott Dinovitz or anyone from 3 Ezralow? 4 A. No, not that I recall. 5 Q. The memo says, "Please read the attached memo 6 regarding applicant status for Specific Plan No. 13. 7 Please be aware that Ezralow is no longer considered as 8 applicant for the zoning map and zoning text amendments." 9 Were you aware that prior to June 7, 2000, the 10 date on Exhibit 15, that Ezralow was the applicant for the 11 zoning map and zoning text amendments? 12 A. Yes, Ezralow would have been one of the 13 applicants. 14 Q. And the other applicants were? 15 A. The City and the Redevelopment Agency. 16 Q. Okay. Do you know why Ezralow was no longer 17 considered an applicant for the zoning map and zoning text 18 amendments after the date of this memo, which is June 7, 19 2000? 20 A. Yes. As we discussed prior to this, again, the 21 City wanted to proceed with the consideration of a specific 22 plan. In mindful of the litigation you had filed, we 23 thought it was the best course of action to reserve our 24 rights to the specific pion. 25 Q. It was best to preserve your rights to ensure the 176 3 (Pages 173 to 176) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 restraining order wouldn t be entered? 2 MR. TEPPER: That's argumentative. You don't 3 have to answer that. 4 THE WITNESS: It's all right. Ne got to get 5 back in the swing of things. 6 MR. TEPPER: I understand. 7 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 Q. Now, why was Ezralow taken off? 9 MR. TEPPER: Asked and answered. 10 THE WITNESS: Ezralow wasn't taken off. 11 Ezralow — we just clarified that the City and 12 Redevelopment Agency were applicants as well. 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 Q. Why was clarification needed? 15 A. Why was clarification needed? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. Again, the City wanted to ensure it could proceed 18 with its consideration of the specific plan. 19 Q. But if you were already the applicant, why was 20 clarification necessary? 21 A. Again, as we talked about last time, just to 22 ensure we didn't have any difficulties ruing out of the 23 third party litigation. 24 Q. Okay. And that would be the suit between Ezralow 25 and Burlington? 177 I A. Yeah, it would be — the suit that Burlington 2 Brought against Ezralow would be one example. 3 • . Q. Now, if this clarification was necessary, was 4 there a concern on your part or anyone at the City that the 5 SP would not go through without the clarification? 6 MR. TEPPER: Objection. As to anyone else other 7 than the witness, that would call for speculation. 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 Q. You could answer the question. 10 A. Could you repeat the question? I Q. Certainly. If the clarification wasn't set forth 12 in Exhibit 15, was there a concern that the SP would not go 13 through, that it would be stopped? 14 A. Well, it may have, but it wasn't an overriding 15 consideradom Again, we just wanted`to ensure we wouldn't 16 have any problems. It was, in effect, as we talked about 17 last time,-doabie-crossing the T's and double -dotting the l8 I's. 19 Q. So were you concerned, though, that if you 20 didn't have the clarification, which is Exhibit 15, that 21 the specific plan and the submission of it would be 22 stopped? 23 A. Not any more so than any other projects we're 24-- working on when there's some level of controversy, either 25 internally or externally, associated with it. 178 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 Q. Okay. Who has the authority to make the City and 2 the Redevelopment Agency co -applicants for the City plan? 3 A. That would be the question for you to best ask of 4 Howard Zelefsky, the Planning Director. 5 Q. Do you know the answer? 6 A. Pardon? 7 Q. Do you know the answer? 8 A. I believe it is, you know, that the City -- that 9 as we've always done, my understanding -- I haven't been 10 here for every specific plan, but the specific plan is 11 generally always viewed as being City -initiated. 12 Q. But what person has the authority to make the 13 City and Agency co -applicants when it was not 14 City -initiated? 15 MR. TEPPER: Excuse me. That assumes a fact not 16 in evidence that the City was not the — that this was not 17 a City -initiated specific plan. 18 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 19 Q. You can still answer the question. 20 MR. TEPPER. If you understand the question. 21 THE WITNESS: Well, you know, I believe it was 22 City -initiated. The Redevelopment Agency was always a 23 co -applicant, even when Macerich was, again, the 24 applicant -- one of the applicants in the earlier version. 25 And, you know, the specific plans quite often are 179 l required, for example, in this instance under the City's 2 general plan, so we believe there wasn't any specific 3 authorization required because Council of the general plan 4 required preparation of the specific plan for the area. 5 And so it's just during the normal course and duty of 6 appropriate City staff. 7 Q. All right- You testified that you recognize 8 Exhibit 8; is that correct? That's the application. 9 A. No, I testified I had never seen that, so — 10 Q. When the City initiates — well talk to 11 Mr. Zelefsky. about it then. 12 When the City initiates, as we were talking 13 about, a specific plan, does it fill out an application 14 like Exhibit 8? 15 A. No. Usually, as I understand, the City does not 16 fill out an application. 17 Q. What's the process? 18 A. Well, we just approved a contract for a specific 19 plan for the Edinger Corridor area. We'll simply start to 20 work on it with our consultant team, and it will eventually 21 be considered at public hearings before the Planning 22 Commission and City Council. 23 Q. Is there some writing where the process was 24 initiated that's similar to Exhibit 8 or any other type of 25 writing? 180 4 (Pages 177 to 180) 7ILI0 & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 A. Not that I'm aware of, no. 2 Q. So how does a person in the public sector know 3 that there's been a specific plan initiated by the City or 4 the Redevelopment Agency? 5 A. They would be given notice at an appropriate time 6 as either — either as just an interested party or a 7 property owner, once there is a draft of a specific plan. 8 And really their option to participate is in the public 9 hearing process. 10 MR. TUCHMAN: Can I have that answer read. 11 (Whereupon the previous answer was read 12 back by the court reporter as requested.) 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 Q. Okay. Was there such a notice in connection with 15 the Huntington Center that was issued by the City or the 16 Redevelopment Agency? 17 A. I believe so. At the time there was the public 18 hearing notices that went out, certainly. 19 Q. And the applicant was listed as the City and the 20 Redevelopment Agency? 21 A. I don't know offhand who the applicant was listed 22 as. 23 Q. Is there any other documentation besides the 24 notice that you discussed a moment ago indicating that the 25 City or the Redevelopment Agency when they're initiating a 181 1 specific plan — is there any type of writing indicating 2 that? 3 A. You're talking generically about any specific 4 plan? 5 Q. In a redevelopment zone, correct. 6 A. I can just use the current example or also the 7 downtown specific plan. You know, sometimes through those 8 efforts, we will — you know, in the case of the Edinger 9 Corridor specific plan, we built in some early workshops 10 that we'll do using a facilitator, bringing in property 11 owners in the area. I don't know if It necessarily will be 12 something that will be public noticed, but we'll probably 13 mail a letter to property owners in the area inviting them 14 to a series of two or three workshops. It depends on how 15 the specific plan is being processed. It's not a mandated 16 element. 17 Again, really, my understanding is the only legal 18 requirement is the time thai we do the public hearing, and 19 people within the specific plan area are sent a mailed 20 notice and then also a legal notice appears in the paper. 21 That's the only legal requirements for notification. And 22 it depends on the project as to how the City will proceed. 23 The case of the Edinger Corridor plan, we have 24 built into the scope of work -- well, not mandatory 25, elements at all these three workshops that we'll invite 182 1 people to, but there's no technical requirement until 2 further on that there — in regards to a specific plan 3 being prepared until later in the process. 4 Q. I'm not talking about notification now. I'm 5 talking about initiating the process where the specific 6 plan is going to be drafted from the ground up. 7 A. To the best of my knowledge, there is no legal 8 requirement for that. 9 Q. Okay. We're not talking about notice now. We're 10 only talking about an application, and perhaps Mr. Zelefsky 11 is the best suited, and you need to tell me that, but 12 you're here as the Director of the Economic Development 13 Department. You're also here as the Person Most 14 Knowledgeable from the Redevelopment Agency. And what I'm 15 trying to find out is that when there's a City -initiated 16 specific plan within a redevelopment zone, is there an 17 application process from looking at Exhibit A? 18 A. No, I don't believe so. And, also, I think the 19 same thing, for example, if the City initiates a general 20 plan amendment, which quite often the City does, the City 21 does not eke its own application for processing the zoning 22 text amendment or a change amendment, so — 23 Q. What is your understanding that the first piece 24 of paper is relative to a specific plan in a redevelopment 25 area when the project is City -initiated or Redevelopment 183 1 Agency -initiated? What's the first piece of paper? 2 A. I don't know offhand what would be the first 3 piece of paper. It could very well be a memo from the 4 Planning Director assigning the staff to work on it. 5 Again, I don't know -- I don't understand your question 6 really of when you're saying the first piece of paper. 7 Quite often during the course of the duties of 8 the staff, we initiate all !finds of activities; planning, 9 Economic studies, or just built in the scope of work or 10 what's budgeted in our budget as far as undertaking 11 activities, doing market studies on sites, you know, those 12 kinds of things, we just do during the normal course of 13 business. There's not necessarily an application file 14 that's occurring. 15 Q. Have you, as Director of the Economic Development 16 Department and the Person Most Knowledgeable from the 17 Redevelopment Agency, have you acted in any capacity to 18 sign a memo or directive indicating that the Economic 19 Development Agency or the -- Department or the 20 Redevelopment Agency is the applicant for the specific plan 21 at the Huntington Center? 22 A. We did -- I did send -- did sign -- actually, I 23 don't remember. I think we did sign a letter at the time 24 that Macerich filed their initial application for the 25 specific plan that said we were going to be the 184 5 (Pages 181 to 184) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 co-appaculL 1 2 Q. And that's a letter to whom? 2 3 A. Let's see, I think it was a letter or memorandum 3 4 to the Planning Director. 4 5 Q. Did you do one in this case with Ezralow? 5 6 A. No. 6 7 Q. Why did you not do such a letter in the case of 7 8 Ezralow? 8 9 A. It is our belief that the prior letter, that this 9 10 was just a continuation o4 in effect, the previous draft 10 11 of the specific plan. 11 12 Q. Why is it that that's your belief? What is that 12 13 based on? Is there a code or someone told you that? 13 14 A. No, just from discussions with the Planning staff 14 15 that it wasn't necessary. 15 16 Q. Who at the Planning staff told you it was not 16 17 necessary for you to, over at the City or the Redevelopment 17 18 Agency, re -author a memo or something in writing indicating 18 19 that you would be the co -applicant for the SP when Ezralow 19 20 took over? 20 21 A. I don't recall specifically. I think it probably 21 22 occurred in one of the general project meetings that occur, 22 23 but I don't recall specifically. 23 24 Q. What's a project meeting? 24 25 A. Well, it's the same thing you showed me a number 25 185 1 of times. The agenda from the project meeting, for 1 2 example, on The Crossings, the specific plan, the one that 2 3 Jane James prepares. 3 4 Q. Do you normally attend those project meetings? 4 5 A. No, not normally, but I do occasionally. 5 6 Q. Those agendas that are italicized with the City 6 7 symbol up in the left? 7 8 A. It says, "The" -- I think it says "The Crossings" 8 9 at the top and lists the planning and technical issues for 9 10 the discussions — 10 11 Q. Okay. 11 12 A. -- what we discussed the other day. 12 13 Q. Good. Did -- back at Exhibit 7 and the last page 13 14 of Exhibit 15 -- this is Exhibit 7 here. 14 15 A. RighL. — 15 16 Q. Did you know of this memo -- did you know of this 16 17 memo's existence before Mr. Silver got it? 17 18 A. I don't recall if the first time I chatted with 18 19 him about it was before or after he had seen it. 19 20 Q. Who is the first person at the City you talked 20 21 about with respect to the June 5tb memo? 21 22 A. I don't recall. 22 23 Q. Do you know who the initial applicants for the . 23 24 SP were? 24 25 MR. TEPPER: Which SP are we talking about? 25 186 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON - MR. TUCHMAN: SP-12. THE WPI'NESS: Okay. Would you repeat the question? BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Yeah. Do you know who the initial applicants were on the SP-12? A. From my perspective, it was the City, Redevelopment Agency, and Macerich. Q. And do you know who the initial applicants were on the SP-13? A. No, I think— again, I think that's just Iterations of the same specific plan, referring to draft numbers, but I'm not certain. Q. Was Ezralow or any one of its related entities or Mr. Dinovitz or any individuals affiliated with Ezralow ever the applicant for the SP for the Huntington Center? A. Were they ever? Q. Yeah. A. Yes, I think they were viewed as being a co -applicant with the City and the Redevelopment Agency from the inception. Q. As you sit here today, is that your same view? A. Is it my same view? My view — no, I think technically at this point in time from the Plannhtg perspective, they view the applicant as being the City and 187 the Redevelopment Agency. Q. So as far as you're concerned, as the director of the Economic Development Department and as the Person Most Knowledgeable from the Redevelopment Agency, no one from Ezralow or none of the Ezralow-related entities are the applicant for the specific plan? A. I think technically that's true at this point. Q. Well, when you say "technically," that means in a way they still are. What do you mean by "technically"? A. I think it means that, you know, we still consult with property owners in preparation and consideration of the specific plan. So I don't want you to assume that that means that there's not — that we don't -- for example, as it goes through the public hearing process and Ezralow appears for the public hearing and says they'd like to have a drive -through, even though the staff isn't recommending it, much to the same degree that Montgomery Ward's has specific comments about sections of the specific plan, that, you know, that by "applicant," meaning that they don't have an interest in the consideration approval of the specific plan. They do, but technically they're not the applicant. Q. When you say they have an interest, is it going to be the Redevelopment Agency and the City of Huntington Beach that pulls permits, or will it be Ezralow 188 - I 6 (Pages 185 to 188) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 or one of its entities? 2 MR- TEPPER: Objection. Relevance. Permits? 3 The relevance of permits to the general plan application or 4 the specific plan application? 5 THE WITNESS: The specific plan being adopted 6 doesn't necessarily mean anyone will be pulling permits 7 and, it could be any property owners or future property 8 owners. It's usually not likely the City because we're not 9 developing property in the downtown area. 10 The City initiated and approved a specific plan 11 covering hundreds of properties in the downtown area, and 12 under the context of the specific plan, individual property 13 owners come in and pull permits when specific plans — in 14 conformance of the specific plan. 15 You know, it's like asking the question of who 16 will pull permits when the City adopts the general plan and 17 the zoning Code. The City sometimes pulls permits if it's 18 doing development itself; but if not, it still adopts the 19 general plan and Zoning Code, and individual property 20 owners pull permits after they go through a subsequent 21 process in the future as long as what they're proposing is 22 in conformance with the general plan and the zoning, or in 23 this instance, the specific plan. 24 Q. I understand your answer, but I still want an 25 answer to my question. And my question is: Is -- does the 189 1 City or the Redevelopment Agency, assuming you have an 2 approved specific plan, going to be responsible for pulling 3 permits? 4 A. They could. 5 MR. TEPPER: No. The question is a legally 6 non-sensical question because the agency doesn't own 7 property and cannot pull permits in an area in which it 8 does not own property. 9 . THE WITNESS: I'll give you an example. We own 10 the site -- this was — 11 MR. TEPPER: And were talking about the 12 Huntington Center? . 13 THE WITNESS: Okay. III limit it to Huntington 14 Center. We own a site just north of Huntington Center, but 15 it's not a specific plan area. 16 BY MR. TUCHMAN: — 17 Q. Okay. If I want to pull a demo permit at 18 Huntington Center, you're not going to send Gus Duran down 19 to pull a permit? 20 A. No, I would not, no. 21 Q. And you're not going to pull the permit? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Who pulls the permit for the demo of the 24 property? 25 A. Whoever would like to demolish the property. It 190 1 could be a property owner. It could be a tenant. If 2 someone wants to demolish Burlington. if they want to 3 demolish interior walls to make tenant improvements, they 4 would go, come and pull a building permit in the context of 5 the specific plan. 6 Q. Well — 7 A. So whoever wants to do the work has to pull the 8 permit. 9 Q. Okay. Well, you've seen the specific plan; 10 right? 11 A. Right. 12 Q. Okay. It requires in some form or fashion, 13 whether you take one alternative or the other alternative, 14 significant demolition out there; right? 15 A. When and if someone ever decides to proceed with 16 the project, yes. 17 Q. That's right. 18 A. Essentially. 19 Q. Right. And before you knock down any walls or 20 any buildings, you have to pull a demolition permit; right? 21 A. Right, or remodel existing buildings, yes. 22 Q. And is it Ezralow that will be pulling those 23 permits and making those determinations? 24 MR. WATSON: Objection. Speculation. 25 THE WITNESS: Maybe, maybe not. There have been 191 1 specific plans adopted where there's been subsequent . 2 property owners who have pulled permits. Whoever owns 3 property at that point in time proposes any sort of 4 development, remodeling, wants any sort of permits through 5 the City's discretionary permitting process, they have to 6 get those permits in conformance with the specific plan. 7 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 Q. Okay. After a specific plan is approved, in 9 addition to pulling the demolition permits, what other 10 parts of the processes are there? 11 A. Well, people would have to pull building 12 permits. They might have to get subsequent entitlements. 13 It depends on the specific plan. If their plans meet the 14 specific plan criteria; for example, in the McDonald's 15 Center Business Park area, they only had to do -- as long 16 as the plans that they submitted conformed to the specific 17 plan guidelines, they just had site plan review at the 18 staff level, and then building permits were issued. So it 19 depends on the specific plan. 20 Quite often, it has a specific -- one reason to 21 do the specific plan is in order to provide for a few 22 little expedited consideration of future proposed work on 23 the site. 24 Q. A specific plan is just general guideline, it's 25 not a blueprint; correct? 192 7 (Pages 189 to 192) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 I A. No. It's — as long as someone comes in — you 1 2 know, the specific plan will say, "Buildings have to be set 2 3 back 10 feet from the street" As long as the building is 3 4 set back 10 het from the street, meets the design 4 5 guidelines, meets all the Building Codes, then there may 5 6 not be a subsequent discretionary process other than just 6 7 checking that it conforms with the specific plan and zoning 7 8 and Building Code. 8 9 Q. Is it the role or will it be the role of the 9 l0 Redevelopment Agency and the City of Huntington Beach to 10 11 pull building permits in conformity with the specific plan? 11 12 A. If we're a property owner, yes, then we would 12 13 have to. 13 14 Q. Are you currently a property owner at Huntington 14 15 Center? 15 16 A. No, we're not 16 17 Q. So as of right now, who has the right to pull 17 18 building permits over at the Huntington Center? 18 19 A. Any of the property owners or tenants. 19 20 Q. And who would those people be? 20 21 A. Southern California Edison, SCE — actually, 21 22 that's the name; Montgomery Ward; Ezralow or Huntington 22 23 Centers LLC, any of the tenants that are there; Macaroni 23 24 Grill; Burlington; Circuit City; Zany Brainy, Order — no, 24 25 it's Barnes & Noble. 25 193 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON- use that's being amortized out. So, you know, that was probably -- in effect, if the specific plan has any impact on development, that would probably be one of the first occurrences to occur without someone taking some discretionary action to do something, and the center can sit the way it is for ten years other than that. Q. What entitlements has Ezralow asked for from the City? A. I don't know at this point. Q. Is that question better suited to ask somebody else or is it just premature? A. I think it's just premature because they wouldn't apply for any entitlements until the specific plan was in place. It doesn't do any good to apply for entitlements now when there will be a specific plan and they'll replace the current Zoning Code there in a matter of weeks. Q. I'm sorry. What did you say is going to happen in a matter of weeks? A. Well, in effect, the specific plan will replace the general Zoning Code for that part of the city. Q. Hasn't that already occurred? A. Well, no. Technically, it has because the specific plan is being reconsidered on the 7th_of August to make a change to it, and then depending on how it's being adopted, I don't know if it goes into effect after that 195 1 Q. And is that the same answer with respect to 1 occurs or if it requires 30 days or the exact timing. 2 anybody who wants to pull a demolition permit? 2 Howard could better answer that 3 A. Yes, I believe so. 3 Q. Zelefsky? 4 Q. Okay. Now, you mentioned "entitlement." What's 4 A. Uh-huh. 5 an entitlement? 5 Q. Is that a "yes" — is that a "yes"? 6 A. An entitlement is considered a right to actually 6 A. Yes. 7 proceed with, you know, construction, demolition, grading.. 7 Q. Is the reconsideration — Zelefsky is 8 It's where the City grants the permits necessary to allow 8 Z-e-1-e-f-s-k-y. 9 those types of activities to occur. 9 The reconsideration, that has to do with the 10 Q. Does Ezralow have any of these entitlements 10 drive-throughs? 11 granted to it? it A. Yes. 12 A. At this point in time for a specific project? 12 Q. Are there any other reconsiderations being 13 Q. Yes. 13 considered? 14 A. No, I don't believe so. 14 A. Not that I'm aware of: 15 Q. Okay. And have they appliedfor such 15 Q. Now, you were talking the other day about 16 entitlements from the City? 16 Jim Lamb. His title is Business Development? 17 A. I don't believe so. 17 A. He's a development project manager that oversees 18 Q. Do you contemplate that they will apply for such 18 the Business Development Division. 19 entitlements? 19 Q. All right. Do you know what his familiarity is 20 MR. WATSON: Objection. Speculation. 20 with the Huntington Center? 21 THE WITNESS: Well, any of the property owners or 21 A. Really, his only role has been as existing 22 tenants will be able to conform with the specific plan. 22 tenants have moved from there, we've been making referrals 23 For example, the specific plan, if it's adopted- finally 23 to other sites for some of the tenants who have left the 24. adopted as being considered, finally adopted within three 24 inline shops in the mall. 25 years, Ward's has to remove their tire, auto, and battery 25 Q. You're his boss? 194 1 196 8 (Pages 193 to 196) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 5 6 7 8 9 10 lI 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Did you give him any instructions relative to displays that he was supposed to make at the Las Vegas ICSC Convention? A. Any instruction? We all jointly decided what would go op on the display. Q. What did you jointly decide would be upon the display? A. We just had conceptual renderings from a variety of projects from throughout the City. Q. Did you have renderings pertaining to Huntington Centers -- Huntington Center? A. Yes, I believe we d1d. Q. And was that with Burlington's premises shown intact or with it gone? A. My recollection what we had up there wasn't anything specific. It was sort of a plaza area so it didn't really show — it doesn't make any assumptions in that regard. Q. And was that -- were you at the convention? A. Yes. Yeah. Q. Was that a color of material that was handed out? A. We did hand out a general leasing flier that Ezralow had; and, again, it didn't show any site plans that I recall It sort of had a conceptual, you know, feel of 197 what the center might be. Q. Did it say "Conceptual Site Plan"? A. I don't recall. Q. If it did -- what's a "conceptual site plan"? A. For one, I don't believe it showed a conceptual site plan. I talked about it showing a conceptual rendering to give a sense of the flavor of what they were trying to accomplish. Q. Okay. What's a "conceptual site plan"? A. A "conceptual site plan" is an illustration that shows how a piece of property might be developed. Q. Okay. Do you know who prepared those handouts you were talking about in Las Vegas? A. The one I was referring to? Q. Yes. A. It was prepared by the Faralow Company. Q. Was there a sign for the Ezralow Company at the Huntington booth? A. A sign, I don't recaIL I don't believe so. Q. Did you give — A. There was a little label on a display that said "Ezralow." I don't know. It said "The Crossings," so — Q. Was there a sign for tenant information and a contact at Ezralow? A. I think, again, we just had their fliers up as 198 1 part of — I don't think there was a specific sign. 2 Q. Did you give instructions to any of the persons 3 that were in Las Vegas relative to what to say in response 4 to Burlington questions? 5 A. Not that I recall. 6 Q. Did you have a flier relative to how to handle 7 questions relative to Burlington? 8 A. Not that I recall 9 Q. Did you do a memo on the ICSC convention? 10 A. A memo, not that I recall, other than we include 11 in, like, the CA — City Administrator's weekly report 12 just that we're going to participating at ICSC, 13 highlighting a variety of projects taking place in 14 Huntington Beach. 15 Q. Did you — were you in possession or did you 16 display a videotape at the convention? 17 A. Yes, we did. 18 Q. And how many videotapes did you display? 19 A. We had two videotapes. 20 Q. And the two videotapes depicted what? 21 A. One was a general video, sort of about lifestyle 22 things at Huntington Beach, and the other was the 23 promotional tape that Ezralow had for The Crossings. 24 Q. Have you produced that tape today, sir? 25 A. No. 199 Q. Do you have a copy of that tape? A. I don't have one in my possession at the moment, 3 no. 4 Q. Do you know if anyone at the City has one? 5 A. I think Jane has one, Jane James. 6 Q. All right. Would you ask her to provide it to 7 you? 8 A. No. If you would like to ask her, I think that 9 would be fine. I don't want to mix up who is responsible 10 for what documents. 11 Q. Okay. Did you review that videotape? 12 A. Yes, I did. 13 Q. Did you approve of that videotape? 14 A. You say "approve"? 15 Q. Did you approve it to be displayed at the City of 16 Huntington Beach booth? 17 A. Yes, I did. 18 Q. Okay. Did you ask that any changes be made to 19 the videotape when it was presented to you? 20 A. No. 21 Q. How long before — when was the convention? 22 A. May — I probably want to say about May 22nd. 23 Q. Did you, prior to May 22nd, view the videotape? 24 A. I don't recall if I viewed it before or after. 25 Having listened to it about a thousand times at the 200 9 (Pages 197 to 200) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 i convention, I don't remember if I saw it before or not. 1 2 Q. Okay. Did you discuss Burlington with Mr. Lamb? 2 3 MR. TEPPER: Objection as to time. Do you have a 3 4 time frame in mind? 4 5 MR TUCHMAN: Yeah, anytime. 5 6 THE WITNESS: I'm sure I have sometime during the 6 7 scope of the project. 7 8 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 8 9 Q. Okay. And what has Mr. Lamb said about it? 9 10 A. What has he said about it? 10 11 Q. Yeah. 11 12 A. I don't recall specifically. 12 13 Q. Did he discuss any comments that he may have made 13 14 at the ICSC? 14 15 A. Not specifically that I recall. 15 16' Q. Were you aware that he was talking to various 16 17 retailers at the ICSC? 17 18 A. Certainly. We were all talking to various 18 19 retailers. That's what we're there for. 19 20 Q. Are you aware that Mr. Lamb made comments 20 21 relating to Burlington at the iCSC? 21 22 A. No, not offhand. 22 23 Q. Did you talk to him about anything he said about 23 24 Burlington at the convention? 24 25 A. Not that recall. 25 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON' about the specific tenants at all in there. I think it just shows, again, the same kind of generic rendering of the feel they're proposing to create. I think that's probably really about it in any formal sense. Q. When you say — okay. Your website -- what's your website? A. It's HBBiz — B-i-z — .com. Q. And then you said fliers at your office. Do you mean the City Clerk's office or the EDD office? A. In the Economic Development Department office. Q. And that's the same color fliers you were handing out at the convention? A. Right. Q. Are there any other places/locations where the City of Huntington Beach or the Redevelopment Agency is promoting The Crossings? A. Not that I can r'ecaB. Q. In the past, besides the ICSC, are there any other locations, places, websites, magazines, where the City has promoted The Crossings? A. Not that I'm aware oL Q. Does it surprise you or would it surprise you if Mr. Lamb was telling people at the convention that Burlington would not be included in the redevelopment of the center? 201 1 203 1 Q. Has Mr. Lamb made the comments that Burlington is 1 A. Yes, because that determination hasn't been made 2 out? 2 yet one way or the other. 3 A. Not that I can recall. 3 Q. Okay. Previously, you testified that Macerich 4 Q. Well, would you agree with that comment? 4 was an applicant and you were a co -applicant on the 5 A. Not necessarily, no. 5 specific plan, and you said there was a written document 6 Q. Okay. Would you think that was a wise thing to 6 that indicated that. 7 say? 7 A. Yes. 8 A. A wise thing to say? I suppose that would be a 8 Q. Is that a letter or is that an application? 9 matter of judgment, and since I don't know whether he said 9 A. I recalled specifically a letter where we -- that 10 it or, not, I wouldn't want to speculate. 10 I had sent to Montgomery Ward's in that regard, and I don't 11 Q. Well, you're his boss; right? 11 recall if we actually signed an application or not. 12 A. Yes. 12 Q. And the letter you sent to Montgomery,Ward was . 13 Q. If he said that, would you criticize him for 13 addressed to Loren Holtman in 1998? 14 that? 14 A. '97 or'98. I don't recall the specific date, 15 A. That depends on the context -and discussion, and 15 but, yes, it was addressed to Loren Hohman. 16 so I don't — you know, I couldn't really make judgment 16 Q. Are there any other writings indicating that the 17 unless I know the specifics. 17 City of Huntington Beach and the Redevelopment Agency were 18 Q. Well, you didn't instruct him to say that? 18 co -applicants with Macerich other than this letter written 19 A. Nob 19 to Montgomery Ward in 1997 or 1998? 20 Q. Now, other than the ICSC, how is -- or where is 20 A. I don't recall. I haven't gone back and looked 21 the City of Huntington Beach or the Redevelopment Agency 21 at any tiles related to that time frame. 22 promoting The Crossings? 22 Q. Such documents, if they exist, have been provided 23 A. Let's see, well, we just have the same fliers in 23 to us though? 24_ _ our office. I don't know if they're up front or not. 24 A. I don't know offhand. We responded to the 25 There's a brief discussion on our website. It doesn't talk 1 25 specific requests you made regarding Burlington and 202 I 204 10 (Pages 201 to 204) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Ezralow- Q. Okay. You didn't include — you didn't instruct anybody at your offices to exclude anything pertaining to Macerich, is that correct? If we asked for Macerich, then you told them to produce it? A. Yes, sir, whatever you produced -- whatever we produced is whatever you asked for. Q. Do you know -- you mentioned last time that there was -- you mentioned $10 million as the gap? A. No, I used an illustration of $10 million as the gap. Q. Okay. Do you know what the range is going to be at the gap? A. Well, it depends ultimately on what is eventually developed on the site, and since we don't know what that is — I just also can use as a frame of reference with it was when we were fairly far advanced with Macerich before they started to sell the site, it would be, you know, somewhere between 10. and $20 million, I'm anticipating. MR. WATSON: Pm sorry. I wasn't here. What gap 21 were you guys talking about? 22 THE WITNESS: The question was, you know, how 23 will the Redevelopment Agency potentially be involved in 24 the project, and we were talking about how there will 25 probably be a gap, a financial gap, or the Redevelopment �9� 9 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 205 Agency will be a financial participant in the redevelopment of the center. MR. WATSON: Thank you. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Based on your experience with the Macerich situation, you believe it will be between the 10 and $20 million range? A. Yes, that's my estimate. Q. Okay. And I remember you said that the way that that gap is made up is through the increase in real property taxes? A. And sales tax._ Q. Is there any other way that that gap can be made up? A. Not that I can imagine, but.really those are the only two public revenues generated on the site. If they were doing a hotel, it might include a share of transient occupancy tax. Q. As I recall, the hotel is a permitted use, but one is not contemplated? A. I don't recall specifically. Q. There is a hotel across the 405? A. The only hotel in the city in that vicinity is just across Center Avenue, but the same side of the 405. Q. Okay. That's still the City of Huntington Beach? 206 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 A. Yes, it is. 2 Q. Are you aware of anyone at the City who has an 3 ownership interest in any of the Ezralow or Ezralow-related 4 entities? 5 A. Not that I'm aware of 6 Q. Are you aware of any of the consultants 7 performing any work on behalf of Ezralow who have an 8 interest in Ezralow? And I mean the architect and any of 9 the appraisers. 10 A. Not that I'm aware of. 11 Q. Are you aware of any lobbyists that have been 12 employed by Ezralow? 13 A. Lobbyists, I haven't met any that they've 14 employed. I don't know — 15 Q. Would it be fair to say -- who is your lead 16 contact person with Ezralow? Is it Dinovitz or Gray? 17 A. It depends on what element you're talking about 18 It would be Doug Gray for the negotiations of the Owner 19 Participation Agreement hem the redevelopment 20 perspective. I think it's Scott Dinovitz when it comes to 21 the planning — processing through the Planning Department, 22 so Scott, I believe, is Jane's main contact, sort of 23 project manager to project manager. 24 Q. I see. Let me move on to some other exhibits, 25 but I have one more question on 15 — or Exhibit 7,- 207 1 actually, which is the June 5 memo. 2 Did you ever see any drafts of Exhibit 7 before 3 the final version? 4 A. I don't recall.. I think you asked that earlier 5 in the last couple of days. 6 Q. I'd like you to take a look at Exhibit 16, 7 previously marked. For the record, it's a letter dated 8 June 9, 2000, to Jane James from Scott Dinovitz. It's 9 received by the Department of Planning on June 12th. 10 Have you ever seen Exhibit 16 before? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. Did you in any way cause a communication from the 13 Ezralow Company to be sent to Planning indicating that they 14 were to be removed or they were withdrawing their 15 application? 16 A. I don't recall offhand. 17 Q. What steps, if any, did you take to -- well, were 18 you aware that they withdrew their application? 19 A. It's a little bit hard to discern because I'm 20 aware of it now. I don't recall specifically at what point 21 ,in time I became aware of them withdrawing their 22 application. 23 Q. What does that mean, their withdrawing their 24 application? 25 A. I guess instead of them being a co -applicant with 208 11 (Pages 205 to 208) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 the City and Redevelopment Agency, they've opted to pall 1 2 themself out of the process, so the City and the 2 3 Redevelopment Agency will proceed on our own. I imagine it 3 4 was particularly in response to the litigation you filed. 4 5 Q. Now, you mean the Ezralow — or the "Burlington 5 6 versus Ezralow" lawsuit? 6 7 A. I believe so. 7 8 Q. Okay. Is this the first time you've seen this 8 9 letter, this June 9th, 2000? 9 10 A. I don't recall. 10 11 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Dinovitz the withdrawal 11 12 of -- withdrawal of Ezralow as the applicant for the Zoning 12 13 Map Amendment 00-01 the Zoning Text Amendment, 00-02, the 13 14 Environmental Assessment 00-04, and the Design Review Board 14 15 00-13? 15 16 A. I don't recall. 16 17 Q. Okay. Besides the Zoning Map Amendment, Zoning 17 18 Text Amendment, the Environmental Assessment, and Design 18 19 Review Board, are there any other applications that you are 19 20 aware of that were made by Ezralow to the City? 20 21 A. None that I'm aware of Those all relate to the 21 22 specific plan. 22 23 Q. And more better -suited for Mr. Zelefsky? 23 24 A. Yes, he might be able to tell you if there's 24 25 anything else they've applied for. 25 209 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON Q. Did you determine whether Ezralow has withdrawn its application for everything it's applied for? A- Well, to the — based on what I've seen here today, it looks like they have, except for just a clarification. You're talking about redevelopment We use redevelopment in sort of a "little R," meaning a property owner can redevelop a site, just the act of whether it's in a redevelopment area or not versus what we tend to call "big R" redevelopment, and there's been no quote, unquote, "application" for that except the owner participation proposals and, of coarse, our ongoing negotiation. So I don't believe that they've — you know, they've never actually quote, unquote, "applied" for an ability to redevelopment the site, "big R," but we are negotiating an Owner Participation Agreement, so I don't know if you view that as quote, unquote, as "application" or pursuit of some right. Q. So basically they have applications for various things with the Planning Department, zoning text amendment, zoning map amendment, environmental assessment, and Design Review Board, and there may be other things that you're not aware of, is that correct? A. Could be, yes. Q. And then with that aside, with respect to the - Economic Development Department, once they were selected as 211 1 Q. Do you know what is a Design Review Board 00-13? 1 the redeveloper in response to the RFPs, that's the only 2 Do you know what that is specifically? 2 thing that they've loosely described as "applied for" with 3 A. When you say "specifically" -- 3 respect to redevelopment? 4 Q. Yeah. 4 A. Right. I was just trying to get an understanding 5 A. -- that particular application? 5 of what you meant by an "application." 6 Q. Yes. 6 Q. Besides going through this OPA process and 7 A. No, I know the Design Review Board, for example, 7 submitting the requests to develop the property pursuant to 8 would be looking at the architectural guidelines for the 8 their R for P responses which were considered on June 19th, 9 specific plan, but -- and I imagine that's what that refers 9 is there anything else that Ezralow or its related entities 10 to. 10 have submitted to the Economic Development Department as a 11 Q. And the Environmental Assessment 00-04, do you 11 conduit for the Redevelopment Agency? 12 know what that is? 12 A. Not that I'm aware of. We provided everything 13 A. No, not offhand. I don't know how the planning 13 that's come in. 14 staff is proposing to proceed with the environmental 14 Q. Does the response to the request for proposals 15 planning assessment. — 15 and now the acceptance of them as the developer encompass 16 Q. Okay. Did you ever review any portions of the 16 the beginning and end of what — with what you're 17 written applications of the Ezralow Companies to determine 17 negotiating with Ezralow and its related entities? 18 if they're no longer the applicant or anything related to 18 A. More than likely it will be. An Owner 19 the redevelopment of The Crossings, redevelopment of the 19 Participation Agreement becomes the single redevelopment 20 Huntington Center? 20 contract. And, you know, that could have been done with or 21 MR. TEPPER: Do you understand the question? 21 without a specific plan, which is a planning requirement 22 THE WITNESS: No, not at all. 22 that needed to be put in place before the center could be, 23 MR. TEPPER: You're kind of mixing concepts. You 23 "little r," redeveloped, or developed under the City zoning 24- might want to break it a little bit. 24 and general plan requirements. 25 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 25 Q. Now, you certainly can have an acceptance of an R 210 1 212 12 (Pages 209 to 212) 7ILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON for P and a selection of a developer without an OPA and an SP in place; am I correct? A. Well — 4 MR. TEPPER: Do you understand that question? 5 THE WITNESS: I'm going to try to understand it, 6 so- 7 MR. TEPPER: Okay. 8 THE WITNESS: Why don't we try it again, 9 actually. 10 MR. TUCHMAN: Please read the question back. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: Okay. Let's talk about one. We can go through a request for owner participation proposals and do a number of things. We can say, "Thank you very much. We're not going to do anything." You know, just let things continue status quo. We can select the developer, and we may or may not end up with an Owner Participation Agreement or Disposition of Development Agreement. We may be able to reach the terms; we may not. We may not like what's being proposed We may not like the economics. So at the end of the day, we may end up with nothing through that process. Now, does that require a specific plan? In some areas — a lot of areas, no. In the downtown area there is 213 already a specific plan in place that covers that entire area, other areas we've issued requests for proposals. I suppose in this particular instance that really nothing can happen at Huntington Center other than re -tenanting existing buildings without there being a specific plan adopted. So conceivably could we enter into an Owner Participation Agreement with someone and have them do something -- nothing other than re -tenant existing buildings? Conceivably, yes. I don't know why we might, but, you know, they're not. intrinsically related, no. Q. My question is: Do you need to have the zoning map amendment and the zoning text amendment in place for the OPA to be done with Ezralow? A. For the agency to accomplish its goals, which is to see Huntington Center redeveloped into a more vibrant retailing environment, yes, becausei don't think that — when we look at our goals for the site, that you couldn't do it without having a specific plan In place, because you can't do anything other than just re -tenant the existing center without a specific plan in place, is my 21 understanding. 22 Q. For the developer to be selected and to negotiate 23 the OPA successfully with Ezralow so that they can 24 rebuild -- demolish and rebuild, they do not necessarily 25- have to be the author or the applicant of the building map 214 1 amendment and the zoning text amendment? 2 A. I believe that to be true. 3 Q. Okay. When the litigation came down, were you 4 ever notified, called on the phone or otherwise, that 5 Ezralow needed you to change the applicant? 6 MR. WATSON: Calls for speculation. 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I don'trecall where that 8 originated. My only recollection is at the time that I had 9 heard, and I don'tremember exactly from who, that you were 10 seeking a temporary restraining order to keep the City from 11 considering the specific plan, that, you know, the City 12 took steps necessary to ensure that we could move ahead 13 with that consideration. 14 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 15 Q. Did the City take the steps in response to -- 16 where did this information come from? 17 A. I don't recall offhand. 18 Q. Did it come from Ezralow? 19 A. I don't recall. It could have come from -- I 20 don't know. I honestly don't recall exactly where it came 21 from. 22 Q. Who at the City or at the Redevelopment Agency 23 was first notified that this TRO was threatened? 24 A. I don't recall. 25 Q. Did Ezralow ask for your help? 215 1 A. I don't recall if a request came through from 2 Eumlow or unit. I don't recall where it originally 3 originated from. 4 Q. Do you know who knows the answer to that 5 question? 6 A. Not offhand, no. 7 Q. Did the steps that were taken in terms of 8 changing the applicant and as we see here in Exhibit 15 and 9 16, was that done in response to communications and 10 information which is received from Ezralow? 11 MR. TEPPER: Objection. That's a 12 mischaracterization. You're changing the applicant. I 13 think the testimony of the witness might have been 14 otherwise, this witness among others. 15 THE WITNESS: Right. I don'trecall what 16 triggered the — again, I characterize it as, you know, 17 crossing the Ts and dotting the I's out. I think — and I 18 don't remember the specific course of events or who talked 19 to whom when, but at the point in time the City learned 20 that it may be precluded from considering the specific 21 plan, that there was some discussion as to what would be 22 the best steps to ensure that we could proceed with the 23 considerations of the specific plan, and that's what 24 resulted in the memorandum that the City Administrator 25 signed as the City Administrator and Executive Director of 216 13 (Pages 213 to 216) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Redevelopment. 1 2 Now, exactly who said what to whom when, I don't 2 3 recall. I mean, I realize this is of the utmost importance 3 4 to your client and to you, but we're managing 10, 12 major 4 5 projects at a time. You know, I haven't focused on this 5 6 and, you know, we did — I just don't recall who originally 6 7 said we're aware that litigation had been pending. Matter 7 8 of fact, you had been by talking to Gus Duran at various 8 9 times describing what you thought your remedies were. 1 9 10 don't know. It could have come from you. I don'trecall. 10 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 11 12 Q. Did you have someone assigned within the Economic 12 13 Development Department to monitor the lawsuit on a 13 14 day-to-day basis or regular basis? 14 15 A. You know, I don't know if — I wouldn't say 15 16 specifically assigned, no. You know, Gus is basically the 16 17 project manager working on the project with me, primarily. 17 18 I don't know if our attorneys, for example, have been 18 14 monitoring it, so — 19 20 Q. Did you — would you say that you discussed the 20 21 "Burlington versus Ezralow" case with attorneys at Kane, 21 22 Ballmer prior to June 5th, 2000, on at least a weekly 22 23 basis? 23 24 A. I discussed the Ezralow project and The Crossings 24 25 project on at least a weekly basis with people from Kane, 25 217 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON' prior to June 7th. 2000, did you discuss the Ezralow/Burlington litigation? A. I don't recall specifically. Q. Did you ever discuss the Burlington/Ezralow litigation with Douglas Gray? A. Yes, I don't recall the time frame for it, so — Q. Did you discuss the litigation between Ezralow and Burlington prior to June 7, 2000, with other persons from Ezralow besides Mr. Gray? A. Well, I didn't say I discussed it before June 7th. I don't recall if I did or of the specific dates I remember a specific conversation where he called and said that they had been successful in beating out the restraining order, but I couldn't tell you what the date of that conversation was. Q. And do you know when that conversation was? MR. TEPPER: He just said he didn't know. THE WPI'NESS: I just said I couldn'trecall the date of that conversation. MR. TUCE MAN: It's okay, Mr. Tepper. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Do you know how long after the hearing that took place? A. No.. Q. Did he say why the TRO was defeated? 219 1 Ballmer. Were we discussing specifically the lawsuit, I 1 A. I'm trying to recall. I don't specifically 2 don't recall. It's not necessarily we've got — any 2 recall. 3 transaction like this is very complicated, you know, as 3 Q. Do you generally recall? 4 you're looking at the economics and drafting documentation 4 A. No, at this point I would be — I don't have a 5 and considering your options, understanding the market. 5 hard memory specifically or even generally what he said. 6 It's one of our four or five major projects, so I'm 6 You know, my understanding, garnered from a variety of 7 spending at least an hour and a half or two hours a week in 7 sources, was on the basis that there was nothing to enjoin, 8 meetings on it, standing meetings on it, plus occasionally 8 nothing to restrain. 9 project meetings. It probably comes up in staff meetings. 9 Q. Because the City became the applicant? 10 We have a group called the Executive Team, which is the t0 A. No, because the City was the applicant and that 11 department that overviews development services. It may 11 since the City was the applicant, your action was filed 12 come up in the context of that, status updates. You know, 12 against the wrong party. 13 so same thing we do with the waterfront project and the CIM 13 Q. Now, Mr. Biggs, did you request that Exhibit 16 14 project downtown and Lowe's. We proposed Wal-Mart 14 be drafted? 15 Q. How frequent were you speaking with Douglas Gray 15 A. Not that I recall. 16 prior to June 7, 2000? 16 Q. Are you aware of anyone from the City that 17 MR. TEPPER: June 7? 17 requested Exhibit 16 to be drafted? 18 MR: TUCHMAN: Yes, 18 A. Not that I know oL 19 THE WITNESS: June 7th? Well, really -- probably 19 Q. Now, Mr. Biggs, based on your last answer, are 20 not more than maybe once or twice a week, events leading up 20 you stating that Burlington Coat Factory should have sued 21 to ICSC and coordinating the meetings at ICSC. I may have 21 the City? 22 talked a little more often, but not more than probably once 22 A. No, I would never encourage anyone to pursue 23 or twice a week. 21 litigation. 24. BY MR. TUCHMAN: 24 Q. Okay. Are you saying that the Redevelopment 25 Q. In those conversations that you had with Mr. Gray 25 Agency in the City of Huntington Beach should have been 218 I 220 14 (Pages 217 to 220) JILIO St ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sued by Burlington? A. I just answered that I don't encourage anyone to pursue litigation. Q. Okay. Well, I just want to be clear. Do you think that Burlington should be suing you now? A. I don't know if they feel they have cause to sue. Q. Okay. Because I thought I heard from your answer that Burlington should have sued you back in — before the temporary restraining order, and I wasn't sure if that's what you wanted to say. MR. TEPPER: You don't have to answer. He's argumentative. THE WITNESS: I would encourage Burlington to get a different attorney, but that's a matter of personal opinion, so — BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. That's good. I just want to make sure what you have to say. Okay. Let's take a look at Exhibit 17. Do you recognize Exhibit 17? A. Yes, I do. Q. What is Exhibit 17? A. It's a memorandum I prepared to the Planning Commission. MR. TEPPER: Excuse me. Can the witness finish? 221 MR. TUCHMAN: That's why I paused. THE WITNESS: That's based on some questions they had when they were doing, I think, either study sessions or an initial review of the draft specific plan. MR. TEPPER: What is the date of the memorandum? THE WITNESS: June 16th, 2000. MR. TEPPER: Thank you. BY MR. TUCHMAN: 9 Q. Let's take a look at your memo. Is that your 10 signature? 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. No, actually I think that is one of the times that my secretary would have signed it for me. Q. Did you author the first three pages of Exhibit 177 A. Yes, I did. Q. Okay. Why did you do that? MR. TEPPER: Excuse me? BY MR. TUCUMAN: Q. Why did you do that? A. As I just said, because the Planning Commission asked some questions in one of their study sessions that I was asked to respond to. Q. Do you know which Planning Commissioner asked you a question? 25- A. I wasn't at that Planning Commission meeting, but 222 1 it was a question that was referred to me, I think, by — 2 either Jane or Gus was at that meeting, or maybe it even — 3 I don't recall. Maybe it came up indirectly from 4 Commission members to Planning staff: I don't recap 5 specifically. 6 Q. Who asked you to prepare this? I'm song. 7 A. It was asked to be prepared in response to 8 questions raised by Planning Commissioners. It was either 9 Gus or Jane or maybe even Howard, but I don't recap 10 specifically. 11 Q. Was it in response to a study session or a 12 Planning Commission meeting on June 13? 13 A. I don't remember which of the two. My 14 recollection is maybe it was a combination of both, 15 questions that arose maybe during a study session or 16 Planning Commission meeting, and subsequent to that based 17 on questions commissioners had. 18 Q. Did anybody else assist with you in authoring 19 your memo dated June 16, 2000? 20 A. No. Pretty much I did that myself. Of course, 21 there's the attachment for Mr. Kane's office, which, of 22 course, I didn't author. 23 Q. Did you ask Mr. Kane to prepare this memo? 24 A. Yes, I did. 25 Q. Why? 223 1 A. Because of the questions asked by the Planning 2 Commission. 3 Q. Okay. Is this the complete memo, June 15, 2000, 4 from Murray Kane? 5 A. I believe so. 6 Q. There were no other attachments to it or anything 7 deleted? 8 A. No, I don't believe so. 9 Q. Okay. And when you reviewed the memo from 10 Mr. Kane, did you make any changes to it and send it back 11 to hire? 12 A. I'm sorry? 13 Q. Did you make any changes to it? 14 A. To Mr. Kane's memo? 15 Q. Yes. 16 A. Not that I recall. 17 Q. Did your memo, the one that you wrote dated 18 June 16th, 2000, did you submit it to Mr. Kane for his 19 review? 20 A. I don't recall. 21 Q. Now, look at the top of the second page, please. 22 It says, "On June 5th, 2000, the City and Redevelopment 23 Agency became co -applicants for the specific plan and 24 Ezralow withdrew their application." 25 Do you see that sentence? 224 15 (Pages 221 to 224) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 A. Yes. 1 2 Q. Now, you wrote this memo on June 16th, 2000; 2 3 correct? 3 4 A. Yes. 4 5 Q. What documents did you have or did you collect 5 6 that caused you to make this statement? 6 7 A. I don't recall specifically, but I imagine it 7 8 would have been — well, again, I don't want to speculate. 8 9 I don't recall specifically, but by Jane 16th, we'd seen 9 10 the memo that Ray had sent had been through. I don't 10 I 1 recall if it was also the Ezralow. It was probably on the 11 12 basis of a combination of the documents that we've 12 13 discussed here today. 13 14 Q. Exhibits 15 and 16? 14 15 A. Could be. I don't recall specifically, but 15 16 that's what I would imagine they would have been. 16 17 Q. Let's take a look at 16. Let's take a look at 7. 17 18 Let's take a look at 15. Are those the documents that you 18 19 looked at when you prepared that statement? 19 20 A. I don't recall specifically. 20 21 Q. Okay. Were there any other documents? 21 22 A. Not that I can recall. 22 23 Q. Okay. Why did you say that on June 5, 2000, 23 24 Eaalow withdrew their application? 24 25 A. Well, I don't know that that sentence is 25 225 1 necessarily referring to that date, but I imagine I wrote 1 2 that on the basis of this June 5 memo in relationship to 2 3 the City and the Redevelopment Agency. I don't think I was 3 4 being specific as to the date when Ezralow withdrew their 4 5 application. 5 6 Q. Where in Exhibit 7 does it say that Ezralow is 6 7 withdrawing its application? 7 8 A. I didn't say it said that they said that in 8 9 Exhibit 7. 9 10 Q. Okay. Well, on what basis do you make the 10 11 statement that on June 5, 2000, Ezralow withdrew their 11 12 application? 12 13 A. I wasn't referring to that when I was referring 13 14 to June 5th. I was referring to the City and Redevelopment 14 15 Agency. I suppose technically I should have said, "And 15 16 subsegwttf Ezralm withdrew their application." 16 17 Q. That would have been more correct, more accurate? 17 18 A. It would have been more correct 18 19 Q. Did anybody tell you to write this memo? 19 20 A. Anyone tell — no, I've already told you it was 20 21 * in response to questions raised from the Planning 21 22 Commissioners, 22 23 Q. Mr. Kane didn't tell you to write this memo? 23 24 A. No. 24 25 Q. Why did you make this statement, "The Agency has 25 226 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. NUNTINGTON' relied on Ezralow to a great degree to work with other property owners and tenants in the area covered by this proposed specific plan"? A. My recollection is because one of the Planning Commissioners was responding to criticism from you and others that Burlington had been shut out of the process. Q. And what investigation did you perform to determine whether that was a true or false statement? A. Just my firsthand experience. Q. And your firsthand experience was that Burlington was included in the process? A. I believe they were invited to be so, and that Ezralow had been meeting with them. Q. And where did you get that information from? A. Pardon? Q. Where did you get that information from? A. Primarily, from Ezralow. Q. Who from Ezralow? A. Well, it would have been a variety of people over time, Doug Gray and — well, primarily, Doug Gray, I imagine, actually. Doug Gray; I can't think of Paul's last name there, the leasing guy; sometimes Bryan Ezralow is in some of the meetings. Q. And what did these people from Ezralow tell you about the degree of contact they have with Burlington? 227 A. Degree of contact?_ Q. Sure. A. I'm trying to recollect because this goes back — some of this goes back to before the first of the year. You know, they had been having some discussions with the Ezralow leasing people, the real estate people — I forget the name of the vice president — for a while. It wasn't really local store contacts. It was more the real estate staff You know, it would be hard to characterize it. You know, I don't know the number of meetings or the exchange. I have over — you know, just from during them giving as updates on the project, them mentioning that they had had a meeting and shown them site plans and things along that line, so it's hard for me to quantity it. Q. Did you believe — did you inform the Planning Commissioners via your memo that Burlington had attempted to meet with the City prior to initiating any litigation? A. Could you repeat the question? MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back for Mr. Biggs. (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: I don't recall. I don't think it was a question that they had asked. 228 16 (Pages 225 to 228) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00` BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Are you aware that Burlington attempted to have a meeting with the City prior to initiating even the Petition to Compel Arbitration? A. We covered this earlier in the deposition. Q. Yeah. A. So whatever I said earlier would still stand. Q. Okay. You didn't want to have a meeting? A. I don't think that was the case. Q. Okay. Did you discuss with Mr. Duran the fact that he testified that a request for a meeting occurred? A. No, I haven't discussed that with him specifically, no. Q. Did you ever check with him as to whether your answer was accurate, your previous answer? A. No, because you instructed as that we weren't supposed to be talking to people about that, going back, you know, in between depositions. Q. Taking instructions from me, eh? A. Well, yeah, to a certain degree, try to be a. cooperative person. Q. Okay. Are you aware that Mr. Duran testified that we attempted — that Burlington attempted to have a meeting at least twice prior to the Petition to Compel Arbitration? 229 A. I don't specifically recall, no. Q. Were you the one that made the decision not to have that meeting? A. I don't recall. Q. Okay. Now, it says, "This is due to an existing contractural relationship that exists among these parties into which the Agency or the City is not a party." What did you mean by that sentence? A. Well, we've been accused by you of interfering with your contractural relationship with Ezralow, and I think we were trying to -- as we always have, trying not to do so. Q. Okay. Why are you trying not to do so? A. Well, it's generally not a good idea Q. Not a good idea to what? .- A. To interfere in a contractural relationship. Q. And why is that? A:_ Because people like you like to sue over things like that:; Q. Okay. And to the best possible -- to your -best possible ability, you've tried to stay out of the contractural relationship with Burlington and Ezralow; right? 24 A. For example, because there is not the similar 25- kind of relationship we have, in fact, met with Ward's. ► l] 1 Q. Can you answer my question? 2 MR. TEPPER: He's answered it. 3 THE WITNESS: I think I did. If you're looking 4 for a different answer, you can provide it yourself. 5 MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back. 6 (Whereupon the previous question was read 7 back by the court reporter as requested.) 8 THE WITNESS: Yes, and we've not met with any of 9 the other — of Ezralow's tenants. 10 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 11 Q. Okay. What is the current status -- you've not 12 met with Mr. Hohman, H-o-h-m-a-n? 13 A. Oh, I have over time, yes. 14 Q. Okay. When is the last time you met with 15 Mr. Hohman? 16 A. Oh, gosh, I don't recall the specific date, but 17 it's been in the last 60 days. 18 Q. When is the last time? 19 A. Pardon? 20 Q. When is the last time? 21 A. I don't recall specifically. Within the Iasi 22 60 days. 23 Q. What was discussed with Mr. Hohman within the 24 last 60 days? 25 A. They just wanted to have an opportunity to come 231 1 in and talk about their new concept and the new Montgomery 2 Ward's and their interest in participating in the 3 redevelopment of Huntington Center. 4 Q. And who else was present at that meeting? 5 A. There were a couple of people from Ward's, Ray 6 Silver and I, Howard Zelefsky, I think Gus Duran. I don't 7 recall if there were others present. 8 Q. How long did the meeting last? 9 A. Oh, I want to say maybe about an hour. 10 Q. Where did the meeting take place? 11 A. In the City Hall. 12 Q. Was there a resolution after the meeting? 13 A. • No, we encouraged them to continue to work with 14 Ezralow. 15 Q. Was this before or after June 19th, 2000? 16 A. I don't recall specifically. 17 Q. When you were in Las Vegas, were you aware that 18 you spoke with anyone from Burlington? 19 A. I don't recall. 20 Q. Do you know for a fact if anyone from the City of 21 Huntington Beach or the Redevelopment Agency or the 22 Economic Development Department spoke to anyone from 23 Burlington? 24 A. We stopped by their booth one day. I stopped by, 25 but I think the person who was — handled the portfolio for 232 17 (Pages 229 to 232) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext. Company- 800.649.8787 1 western United States was already in a meeting, so — 1 2 that's what we usually do. Every year we stop by 2 3 Borlingloa's booth. To the best of my knowledge, they've 3 4 not ever come to ours 4 5 Q. What was your intent in stopping at the 5 6 Burlington booth in Vegas? 6 7 A. We stop every year in Vegas to visit any tenants 7 8 in town that have booths there. 8 9 Q. And the reason for that is? 9 10 A. Just a general courtesy call. 10 11 Q. Do you know why the Macerich -- why Macerich 11 12 didn't go through with their specific plan? 12 13 A. Well, they sold the center to Ezralow before it 13 14 was completed. 14 15 Q. I understand that. Do you know why they did 15 16 that? 16 17 A. They indicated to as that they didn't think that 17 18 was their core — development of that kind of center was 18 19 their core of business, and it would be better served from 19 20 their corporate perspective to look at selling the center. 20 21 Q. Did anyone from the City or the Redevelopment 21 22 Agency or the Economic Development Department or any other 22 23 agency of the City of Huntington Beach encourage Ezralow to 23 24 purchase the property from Macerich? 24 25 A. Encourage? 25 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON discussing with Macerich, and didn't share that with perspective purchasers, but we understand later that Macerich had actually shared that with all perspective purchasers So they were sort of trying to get a sense how the Redevelopment Agency might participate financially in any future project, those kinds of things. Q. Take a look at the next page, please, of Exhibit 17. You say that in the third paragraph, "We encourage the Planning Commission to take action and approve the specific plan on June 20. This will ensure that any negotiations for the redevelopment of the area are undertaken with the specific plan parameters in place to guide these efforts." Those are your words; correct? A. Yes Q. Okay. What does that mean? Why did you -- as the Economic Development Director, why did you want to encourage the Planning Commission? A. Well, in the past we sort of have a chicken and egg problem with the Planning Commission. Sometimes they've complained that we've negotiated redevelopment transactions before they've had a chance to review the planning issues on a project. And so I was just- in this instance, I was encouraging them to take action becauw they had been at that point in time authorized to negotiate 233 1 235 1 Q. Yeah. 1 with Ezralow, for an Owner Participation Agreement, and I 2 A. No, I wouldn't say encourage, no. 2 was sort of reinforcing that they, as a Planning 3 Q. Did the City of Huntington Beach or any of its 3 Commission, had an opportunity to move forward with setting 4 employees or agencies or elected officials communicate to 4 the planning standards for the project, so we didn't have 5 Ezralow to purchase the property from Macerich? 5 this chicken and egg scenario. 6 A. Communicate? 6 In the past they have felt that when some of the 7 Q. Yeah. 7 planning issues will come to the Planning Commission after 8 A. What do you mean by "communicate"? 8 we've already negotiated Owner Participation Agreement or 9 Q. Tell them they should buy the center. 9 Disposition of Development Agreement, they thought that 10 A. I don't think we told anyone they should bay the 10 their hands had been tied as far as whether or not they 11 center. 11 could set the planning standards. And in this instance, 12 Q. Was there any input from anyone from the City of 12 they can set the planning standards for the site before 13 Huntington Beach to Ezralow prior to the purchase of the 13 anyone eventually develops — went through redevelopment of 14 property by Ezralow from Macerich? 14 the center. 15 A. Sure. Ezralow was doing doe diligence. We 15 Q. So what you're saying is the two processes, one 16 talked to a®erous developers who were interested in baying 16 in selecting the developer and entering into an OPA and the 17 the center before they submitted their bids 17 other process of establishing a specific plan to get the 18 Q. When you say due diligence, what type of due 18 correct zoning for one of the redevelopment areas, they are 19 diligence was done relative to the City? 19 interrelated? 20 A. I don't recall. Everything specifically, but 20 A. Only in the minds of some of the Planning 21 they were interested in knowing, you know, if it's in a 21 Commissioners I don't think that's actually true, but, 22 redevelopment project area, copies of the redevelopment 22 you know, you have to work within the nuances of your 23 plan, you know, the status of the specific plan, what 23 elected and appointed officials. 24_ Macerich had been proposing. You know, people were quite 24 Q. Okay. And why did you make this statement, "This 25 curious as to what the terms were that we had been 25 will ensure that any negotiations for the redevelopment of 234 I 236 18 (Pages 233 to 236) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 the area are undertaken with the specific, plan parameters 2 in place to guide these efforts"? 3 A. That was specifically in relationship so the 4 Planning Commission would know that when we eventually did 5 move forward with the project, that they had already had 6 their input as the Planning Commissioner — Commission and 7 planning standards, and that's what drove the transaction 8 as opposed to necessarily their perspective sometimes of 9 the economic stride, the transaction, and override planning 10 considemdons. 11 Q. You wanted the specific plan to be in place prior 12 to entering into the OPA? 13 A. I would have liked the specific plan to be in 14 place five years ago. That's just generally good 15 business, whatever ownership there was. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25_ Q. And with respect to the specific plan, is that — that has now been approved, has that entered into any part of your discussions relative to negotiations on the OPA? A. No. Again, not specifically, no, just to the extent they have to conform with the specific plan. Q. And when you say they have to conform with the specific plan, it talks about the design; it talks about the amount of square footage; it talks about setbacks; it talks about the types of businesses that can and cannot be in there? 237 A. Generally, yes. Q. And those affect the amount of money that's going to be -- that the center will be generating and, therefore, determines what this gap will be? A. Potentially. Q. What others affect the determination of what the SP has -- does that have on your OPA? A. Well, it's always better if you -- like, in the downtown area where there is already a specific plan in place and -- THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. THE WITNESS: -- it has the effect of expediting any projects that are undertaken in the future whether redevelopment or not. MR. TUCHMAN: I think we should give the reporter five mimosa... — (A brief recess was taken.) MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to ask the reporter to mark for identification as" 137 -- and I don't have extras of this, so I71 let you all take a look at it -- it's a colored document that's two-sided. It says, "The Crossings of Huntington Center" on both sides. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 137 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) 238 1 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 2 Q. And do you recognize 137? 3 A. Yes, I do. 4 Q. What is 137? 5 A. This was the Hier prepared by Ezralow that we 6 were referring to earlier. 7 Q. That was passed out at the Las Vegas convention? 8 A. It was available at the Las Vegas convention. It 9 was there with other materials given to as by various 10 developers that people could take when they were in the 11 booth. 12 Q. Okay. And can you see from Exhibit 137 where it 13 is that Burlington is located? 14 A. From discussions I had with the developer, they 15 at various times pointed out that Burlington could go in 16 any number of places here, and it doesn't show the current 17 Burlington building. 18 Q. Do you know — which current places did you 19 anticipate or did they tell you they anticipated they would 20 , be going in? 21 A. At times they talked about Burlington going in 22 here In the two-story — 23 MR. TEPPER: Hold on. Before we get any further, 24 if we're going to do things like that, why don't we have a 25 black -and -white or a photocopy made of that so the witness 1 can put a number on it. 2 MR. TUCHMAN: Just circle it. That's a better 3 idea. Well be right back. Here's 137. 4 MR. WATSON: Thanks. 5 MR. TEPPER: Thank you. 6 BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. This is the color one. You can take a look at it. But please mark up, if you want, the white 9 one. 10 Where did you say Burlington would be going or could be going? A. I think, first otall, that we always —when we did happen to refer to this or when I heard Ezralow refer to this, this is an illustrative site plan, that Burlington could have gone, for example, to basically -- approximately where they are, this cross -sectioned area shows a two-story building that those retail spaces could have been consolidated and provided space for Burlington. Same thing with this space over here, that, you know, going to two-story format or over in another location here. I forget exactly where depending on what happens with the theaters. I could have gone over here (indicating). Q. Why don't you circle the other potential area. A. But this is all speculative. I also have seen illustrative plans that show Burlington where their 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 239 240 19 (Pages 237 to 240) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 existing building is. 1 2 Q. That's fine. Next question. Why was 137 handed 2 3 out showing the building gone when there was conceptual 3 4 site plans where it had Burlington's structure in 4 5 existence? 5 6 A. I don't know. This is what was provided to as by 6 7 the developer. 7 8 Q. Okay. And this -- you didn't request 137 be 8 9 handed out at the booth? This is what Ezralow gave you? 9 10 A. We asked a variety of developers developing 10 11 projects throughout the city to give as whatever marketing 11 12 materials they wanted as to distribute. 12 13 Q. When you got 137 -- when is the first time you 13 14 saw 137? 14 15 A. I don't recall. 15 16 Q. When you saw the handout, did you -- 137, did you 16 17 say to them that this could cause a problem because the 17 18 Burlington structure -- existing structure is not 18 19 indicated? 19 20 A. I don't recall having discussions with them about 20 21 that because, you know, it didn't say on there either that 21 22 Burlington wasn't part of the project, so — 22 23 Q. Was there a sign at the booth that had 23 24 Paul Bernard's address and phone number there? 24 25 A. This is on the fliers. This is the Icier that we 25 241 1 had, you know, facing out this way at the booth. So it had 1 2 their name and number. Was there another flier? I don't 2 3 recall offhand. We had a variety of displays up. We had 3 4 our main display wall that had, you know, maybe 15 projects 4 5 on it. It included, for example, like a rendering like 5 6 this for the mall. I don't recall if there was a site plan 6 7 or not. We had some other materials from Ezralow. I don't 7 8 recall if they were actually on display or if they were 8 9 just there as resource materials. 9 10 Q. Okay. Who paid for 137? 10 11 A. I don't know. It wasn't us. 11 12 Q. With respect to 137, when you received 137, did 12 13 you ask that the scenario, which left Burlington intact, 13 14 that this conceptual site plan also be distributed? 14 15 A.. No, we never — we just provided you the 15 16 material — displayed the material the developer provided 16 17 to us. 17 18 Q. Okay. Now, let's go back, please, to 18 19 Exhibit 17. Thank you. Take a look, please. 19 20 A. That's Exhibit 179 20 21 Q. Here's another copy for you. 21 22 A. Is this it? 22 23 Q. It was in your notebook. 23 24 A. Closed it up while I was sitting here. Okay. 24 25 Go ahead. 25 242 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON Q. Okay. Take a look at the third page. You have right in front of you. You sent this to the Mayor and City Council members. Did anybody respond to your memo? A. Not that I recall. Q. Did Ray Silver respond to your memo? A. Not that I recall. Q. Did Gail Hutton? A. Not that I recall Q. Murray Kane? A. Not that I recall. Q. Gus Duran? A. Not that I recall, Q. Now, D.C.B., those are your initials? A. Yes. Q. L.S. is Linda — A. Suracd. Q. Okay. She's your secretary? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Let's take a look at the next page, memorandum from Kane, Ballmer. Do you have independent knowledge one way or the other whether the statements made in the June 15 memo were correct or incorrect? A. The Jane 15 memo from — Q. Mr. Kane; correct? A. — Mr. Kane? Yes, I believe them to be correct 243 because I'm familiar with all the documents referred to In there. Q. Okay. And Ordinance No. 3343 -- briefly, what is 3343? A. That's the ordinance that approved the redevelopment — the merged redevelopment plan. Q. For all five districts? A. Yes. Q. And what is the redevelopment plan? A. What is the redevelopment plan? Q. Yes. A. It's a — MR. TEPPER: The redevelopment plan or a redevelopment plan? I didn't hear you. MR. TUCHMAN: It says "the redevelopment plan." MR. TEPPER: Okay. THE WITNESS: It's the redevelopment plan required by State law, California Health & Safety Code that when you approve a geographic redevelopment area, you adopt a written redevelopment plan that talks about the redevelopment authorites you have in the area. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. And what is the California Community Redevelopment Law? A. That's set forth. It's a law under which 244.1 20 (Pages 241 to 244) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 redevelopment agencies organize and operate. It starts t 2 with Section 33000 of the California Health & Safety Code. 2 3 Q. Are you familiar with the zoning and ordinance 3 4 regulations for the City of Huntington Beach? 4 5 A. Very generally. 5 6 Q. Who is in charge of updating them in terms of 6 7 making sure that the statute or the ordinances contained in 7 8 them are correct? 8 9 A. In the zoning ordinances? 9 10 Q. Yes, t0 11 A. Zoning code? That would be the Planning it 12 Department, Howard Zelefsky's department. 12 13 Q. That's not part of the EDD's responsibilities? 13 14 A. No. 14 15 Q. Let's look at the next part of 17. This is the 15 16 June 19th, 2000, City of Huntington Beach Request for 16 17 Redevelopment Agency action. Do you recognize this 17 18 document? 18 19 A. Yes, I do. 19 20 Q. And is that your signature? 20 21 A. Yes, it It 21 22 Q. And you prepared the last three pages of 22 23 Exhibit 17, which is the -- which is the request for 23 24 Redevelopment Agency action dated A ine 19th, 2000? 24 25 A. Not necessarily. I would have reviewed it, but I 25 245 1 don't recall if I drafted it or someone else did. I think 1 2 Gus actually did. 2 3 Q. Okay. It says prepared by you, and then it's 3 4 initialed by you. 4 5 A. , Weil, all RCAs are prepared by department heads, 5 6 but they're quite often prepared by staff. 6 7 Q. Is this — RCA or RAA? 7 8 A. This is an RAA. 8 9 Q. Okay. "The Recommended Action, direct staff to 9 10 negotiate an Owner Participation Agreement with Huntington 10 11 Center Associates, LLC, an Ezralow Company subsidiary, for 11 12 the comprehensive redevelopment of Huntington Center." 12 13 That was approved; correct? 13 14 A. Yes, it was. 14 15 Q. Okay. What does that mean, "comprehensive 15 16 redevelopment"? _ l6 17 A.. Well, it means for redevelopment of the area that 17 18 we referred to in the request for owner proposals, 18 19 basically the area — the 63 acres that includes property 19 20 of Ward's, SCE, and Huntington Center, LLC. 20 21 Q. And when you say "comprehensive redevelopment," 21 22 that also includes the long-term tenancy of Burlington Coat 22 23 Factory? 23 24 A. Well, when you talk about redevelopment, that 24 25 means yes, incorporating existing tenants into the 25 246 redevelopment of the center. Q. Okay. A. That could be laving them in their buildings. That could be moving them to another location depending on what rights the property owner has. Q. Okay. Where did this information come from in the second page of the report? A. Which information are you -referring to? Q. "The City has seen the sales tax revenue." A. That comes from sales tax data we received from the State Board of Equalization. Q. And when did you receive, that information? A. When did we receive it? Q. Yes. A. We receive it regularly, quarterly. Q. They sent it to you quarterly? A. Yes. Q. And the information that you provided in this R — is it an RAM A. Yes. Q. — this RAA, was current as of June 2000? A. Yes, based on the dates identified in there. Q. Okay. Did you ever make a statement that — ever make the statement that you believed that there wem not enough City Council votes to condemn out the Burlington 247 leasehold? A. No, I don't know that to be a fad one way or the other. Q. Have you taken a straw poll? A. Me personally, no. Q. Do you know if anyone has? A. Not that I'm aware oL Q. Is that something you've talked about with Ezralow? A. We've talked about the general climate for property acquisition in Huntington Beach. We have the some issues adAiig on another project in the downtown, whether or not the Council — which you don't know that until you present a matter for an imminent domain hearing, and we're well away from that occurring in any instances. Q. In this case or the downtown instance? & Both. Both. Q. When you say the "general climate," what do you mean by that? . A. Huntington Beach Is a very property rights -oriented city and, you know, the City Council here doesn't do imminent domain very often as compared to other jurisdictions of which I'm familiar, so it's something that is always you don't know until you move forward. There's not a lot of history. I couldn't tell you, for example, 248 21 (Pages 245 to 248) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 that — you know, other cities, quite often there's 2 imminent domain resolutions on Council agendas with great 3 regularity by which you can judge their willingness to 4 acquire property. So it's just a general observation about 5 the nature of a lot of cities in Orange County where it's 6 very property rights -oriented. 7 Q. There's 200,000 people in the city of 8 Huntington Beach? 9 A. Yes. l0 Q. You talked about, "The community has long I clamored its redevelopment as the center has become an 12 eyesore." 13 Where did this statement come from? 14 A. Well, based on my own personal experience. 15 Whenever I speak to public groups, probably a number of 16 them question and ask us, "When is the City going to do 17 something about Huntington Center.?" So we consistently 18 point out we work with property owners on the site and 19 merely take their cue as far as what might happen from a 20 redevelopment perspective. So it's based on five years' 21 experience, contact personally, the contact my staff has. 22 Council members have indicated it's one of the top 23 questions they're asked about. So it's, again, based on 24 five years' experience of being in the community. 25 Q. Well, is the clamor of the community a factor 1 that you work into to determine redevelopment? 2 A. I'm sorry. I don't understand your question. 3 Q. I'm trying to understand why the clamor of the 4 community has an influence one way or the other over 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 249 redevelopment. A. It has influence over everything the Government does. Basically, by nature, driven by what the community would like to see. I mean, we've got people now clamoring as a result of an auto accident to reduce speeds on the street in the city. They show up at Council meetings and that's nature -representative democracy. Q. And if I told you 5 percent of the residents of Huntington Beach want Burlington Coat Factory saved, would you consider that in your equation? A. Sarre. It would be something that would ultimately come to play in public hearings, if there are ever public hearings as to that question. Q. What question? .. A. Whether— your point being whether Burlington Coat Factory should be saved. If that question is ever something for the City to decide, it would be through a public hearing process, and people would have an opportunity to participate through that process. Q. Is there a certain percentage where you will factor this into your memos or your reports in your RAAs? 250 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 What if 10 percent of the population of Huntington Beach 2 wanted Burlington Coat saved? 3 A. This is based on my personal experience and, you 4 know, the terminology we chose to use there. So I believe 5 it to be an accurate statement. 6 Q. Okay. Well, certainly, if 10 percent did voice a 7 concern about Burlington Coat Factory, 10 percent of the 8 population of the city of Huntington Beach, that's 9 something you would take a look at? 10 A. Certainly. We're always responding to things we 11 hear in the community. 12 Q. Okay. Good. Now, the first sentence in the 13 third paragraph says, "The agency intends that the 14 Huntington Center be rehabilitated and repositioned into a 15 high -quality, well -integrated, retail entertainment center 16 under unified ownership." 17 To that end, has the Redevelopment Agency or the 18 City of Huntington Beach determined one way or the other 19 whether Burlington Coat Factory and its retail business 20 fits into this concept? 21 A. No. 22 Q. To your knowledge, has Ezralow determined whether 23 this fits into this concept? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Has anybody at the City ever stated to you that 251 1 Burlington Coat Factory is not upscale enough? 2 A. Has anyone? 3 Q. Yeah. 4 A. I've had people in the community express that 5 personally. But, you know, when you say "anyone in the 6 City," are we tAildng about the City organization? Not 7 that I'm aware oL 8 Q. Do you as the Person Most Knowledgeable from the 9 Redevelopment Agency and as the Director of the Economic 10 Development Department believe that the Burlington Coat 11 Factory is not upscale enough for the vision at 12 The Crossings? 13 A. I don't know at this point. It depends on who 14 the other tenants are and whether they fit ultimately in 15 the overall mix. And so since that's not been determined, 16 it's not possible to make judgment at this point in time. 17 Q. Okay. And as far as — have you ever said -- 18 you, Mr. Biggs, ever stated that Burlington Coat Factory 19 should not be at The Crossings because it's not upscale 20 enough? 21 A. Again, it depends on who the other tenants are. 22 So it depends if the question, as asked, is Burlington, you 23 know, the right tenant for the center anchored by Sax and 24 Tiffany's, but, you know, we haven't really been asked that 25 yet, so I haven't formed an opinion in that regard. If the 252 22 (Pages 249 to 252) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00- BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25- center consists of Montgomery Ward's and Mervyn's and JC Penney, they might be, but, again, we haven't had — you know, it would be pare speculation to try to form an opinion one way or the other. Q. Sax and Tiffany's have expressed an interest? A. No, that was purely illustrative of the gamut of options. Q. Mervyn's is going to be staying. We know that. A. I don't know that for certain, no. Q. Have you noticed that on the SPs Mervyn's is consistently in all of the plans? A. 1 notice that they show the Mervyn's building remaining. That doesn't necessarily mean that Mervyn's will be remaining. It's relatively the newest — one of the newest structures in the center. The specific plan does not also specifically call out Mervyn's as remaining. Q. Is that so? A. Yeah. They talked —the specific plan just talks about retail 82,000 square feet. It doesn't identify any tenants. Q. Okay. When you stated here, "To that end, the Agency" -- look at the third paragraph — "the Agency has determined that in order to revitalize the economy of the center, and to best achieve the redevelopment goals of the Agency and Redevelopment Plan, the Agency may need to 253 encourage comprehensive changes to both the structural and tenant composition of the Huntington Center." Your comments referred to Burlington Coat Factory? A. Not necessarily, no. Q. Under what conditions do they refer to Burlington Coat Factory? A. That hasn't been — I don't know at this poin4 so.. Q. When you say, "The Agency believes that unified development of the center will allow for the oversight," does that mean you want to get rid of Montgomery Ward's? A. I'm sorry, what are you referring to? Q. The next sentence. A. How does it start? Q. 'The Agency believes that unified development of the Huntington Center will allow for the oversight and site control necessary" — A. Well, there have been issues in moving forward with mostly actually reciprocal easements You know, when we were working with Macerich, Ward's at that point was In bankruptcy and wasn't able to participate in the proposed redevelopment. So, you know, Macerich's proposal sort of ignored that end of the site since under the reciprocal easement, they couldn't really cause anything. That's 254 1 really referring to, for example, separate ownership where 2 people can, in fad, block the upgrade of the center. 3 Q. Are you aware if Burlington Coat Factory has any 4 REAs reciprocal easement agreements? 5 A. Not specifically. My only experience has only 6 been in relationship to Ward's 7 Q. Have you asked anybody to determine whether 8 Burlington has any rights under REAs? 9 A. No. That's been the purview of the developer. 10 We've asked them to work with existing tenants to resolve 11 whatever issues under their existing contr actural 12 relationships 13 Q. Meaning, Ezralow will work it out with 14 Burlington? 15 A. Yes, that's what we've been asking to occur. 16 Q. And are you aware — do you know that Burlington 17 has REAs at that shopping center? 18 A. It's not unusual for major tenants to have REAs. 19 Am I specifically aware that Burlington assumed — I would 20 have assumed — usually, it's major department stores. 1 21 know JC Penney's would have had them as an original anchor 22 there. So I don't know if at the time that Macerich leased 23 to Burlington, whether those continued on to Burlington or 24 not. I don't specifically know, no. 25 Q. Are you aware that Burlington's REAs are 255 1 identical to those of Montgomery Ward's? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Is that something that concerns you? 4 A. Not necessarily. 5 Q. Later on with respect to determining the gap, it 6 will? 7 A. Weft, I don't know that to be the case. 8 Q. When you analyze the financials relative to 9 Burlington, the REAs could have an impact on that? 10 A. Well, I don't know that to be the case 11 necessarily. 12 Q. Okay. Is that within your purview to determine 13 if there are REAs, and if there are, what value they have? 14 A. Weil, you're assuming there that the gap is 15 ultimately determined — you know, if there's a cap on what 16 the gap is, if there's costs above that, that's going to be 17 the developer's issue. This is not an open-ended 18 opportunity for as to assist financially. So to a certain 19 degree we don't really care. The developer could tell as 20 they need $80 million, but we're still only going to put in 21 X amount. So they have to have to finance that through 22 another source. 23 So, no, it's not necessarily germane depending on 24 how the financial transaction. The developer takes 25 those — you know, if they're extraordinary costs we're not 256 23 (Pages 253 to 256) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 aware of and the developer has not raised those in our 1 2 discussons, then that's the developer's obligation to pay 2 3 those, and they have not raised them from my perspective. 3 4 Q. You say, "In addition, agency expert consultants 4 5 confirm that unified development and maintenance of the 5 6 Huntington Center in the highest standards will enable the 6 7 center to," and then it goes on. 7 8 What expert consultants? 8 9 A. That would be Keyser Marston. Jim Rabe at Keyser 9 10 Marston. 10 l 1 Q. R-a-b-c. Anyone else? 11 12 A. In general, we've bad — we've talked — we use 12 13 another firm called the Sedway Group, Lynn Sedway and Card 13 14 Freholm there. I'm just talking in general for what makes 14 15 for a successful retail project. 15 16 Q. Has Jim Rabe given you anything in writing 16 17 pertaining to Burlington Coat Factory? 17 18 A. No. 18 19 Q. Has Carol Freholm given you anything in writing 19 20 pertaining to Burlington Coat Factory? 20 21 A. No. 21 22 Q. Has the other person from Saybrook — what's her 22 23 name? 23 24 A. Rebecca Casey Seidel 24 25 Q. Has Rebecca Casey Seidel — C-a-s-e-y; Seidel, 25 257 1 S-e-i-d-e-I -- provided you with any written reports 1 2 pertaining to Burlington? 2 3 A. No, none of our efforts to date have been driven 3 4 specifically by any proposed or existing tenants. 4 5 Q. Have any of these experts expressed anything one 5 6 way or the other relative to Burlington? 6 7 A. Just in general, the same thing I've expressed 7 8 that depending on the ultimate makeup and composition of 8 9 the center, co -tenancy becomes very important issues, but 9 10 we don't know — ultimately know who the tenants will be. 10 11 So, as a matter of fact, we're still working on that 11 12 analysis. We're asking the developer to give as an 12 13 indication of what the tenant mix might be, and then we'll 13 14 analyze that specifically. 14 15 Q. When will it be determined what the tenant mix 15 16 will be? 16 17 A.. I don't know. With most retail projects, it may 17 18 not be for quite a while._ 18 19 Q. And why is that? 19 20 A. Well, because people sort of have to sign on 20 21 leases and, you know, know that there's a level of — an 21 22 idea that a project is moving forward, so, you know, 22 23 development is sort of not a precise science, based on my 23 24 experience. 24 25 Q. Does the tenant mix have to be fixed prior to 25 258 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON entering into the OPA? A. No, not necessarily. Q. Some idea of the tenant mix should be known prior to entering into the OPA; is that correct? A. Not necessarily. Q. Do you have a target in this case? MR. TEPPER: For what? BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. For determining whether you should have any or all of your tenant mix determined prior to entering into your OPA with Ezralow. A. We haven't really discussed this. No, not at this point I'm familiar with other sites where — there's a project in Long Beach that the Agency committed — they wouldn't convey the site antil they had 60 percent pre -leasing commitments, but we have not had those specific discussions. Q. Is it your expectation to enter into the OPA without having any of the tenants determined? A. It could occur. Q. As it stands right now, do you have any tenants for the shopping centeft A. Do I have any? Q. Yeah. A. Well, that's not oar role. We don't get fit 259 tenants for the shopping center. Ezralow has indicated they've got some letters of intent, but I don't know specifically with which tenants. They've actually — most developers are hesitant to sort of start to talk about tenants with, you know, public people like myself, because, you know, they're trying to work to get a whole array of tenants lined up together, and to the extent there's a lot of speculation in the marketplace, it's counter -productive, so— Q. Who signs these letters of intent? A. I don't know. You're asking about who — which tenants have signed them with Ezralow? Q. Yeah. A. That would be a question to ask Ezralow. I don't know the specifics of the tenants. Q. You're not concerned with that right now? A. No, not at this point, no. Q. They haven'tsent you these letters of intent? A. No. No. They wouldn't normally send them to us. Q. You don't have a file of which tenants go where? A. No. Q. Okay. Before the OPA is entered into, are you going to be concerned about the letters of intent? A. Not necessarily, we've entered into DDAs with developers on sites where they don't have any tenant 260 24 (Pages 257 to 260) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 commitments before we enter into a DDA. Actually, that's 2 the normal course of basiuess. 3 Q. may. Has anybody told you that if Burlington 4 Coat Factory's structure remains, you're not going to have 5 cinemas there? 6 A. Has anyone told me that? No, because actually 7 there was a proposal earlier when Macerich was going to do 8 the center just to put the cinemas where Broadway is. So I 9 don't think that necessarily precludes cinemas. 10 Q. Has anybody told you that though? 11 A. Not that I can recall. 12 Q. Okay. Is there anything that Ezralow Company has 13 not submitted that they need to submit to complete the OPA? 14 A. Has not submitted? Well, since we haven't 15 finished negotiating an OPA, I can't answer that question 16 for you, so — l7 Q. Well, did Ezralow submit everything that you 18 requested to comply with your request for proposal? 19 A. I don't recall, but that's not germane as to 20 whether or not we can enter into an OPA with them. 21 Q. Okay. Did Ezralow provide you with everything 22 you needed to make a full and informed decision to select 23 them as a developer? 24 A. I believe so, yes. 25 Q. Did Ezralow fail to provide the City of 261 1 Huntington Beach and the Redevelopment Agency through its 2 Economic Development Department with anything that the 3 department requested? 4 A. I don't recall offhand. 5 Q. Is there anything that the Ezralow Company did 6 not submit in connection with the request for proposal that 7 they still have to submit to you? 8 A. No. By this very action, we were satisfied with 9 what was presented, and we selected them as the developer. 10 Q. Prior to entering into the OPA, do they have to 11 deposit money? 12 A. Not necessarily. We usually have a good faith 13 deposit from developers, but usually that's where they 14 don't own a site. You know, in this instance, I don't 15 know. We might have a good faith deposit of, you know, 16 100•, 200AM but that's not been negotiated. 17 Q: Do you anticipate that this 100- to $200,000 will 18 be — a deposit will be given to you a. month before the OPA 19 is entered into?- 20 A. Usually, it's not due until after the OPA is 21 entered Into. Usually, there's a time frame, within a 22 certain amount of time, 15 days or 10 days it's deposited. 23 Q. After the — 24 A. Or it's a default item, and then we put a notice 25- of default, and after the default period, if they didn't 262 9 10 11 12 13 14 provide a good faith deposit — THE REPORTER: Pm sorry, "And after"? MR. TEPPER: I thought you said "cure period." THE WITNESS: After their cure period, we would send a default notice. And after the cure period, if they didn't cure, the OPA would terminate. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Looking at the last paragraph of your RAA, and it says, the second sentence, "if the recommendation is approved, staff will negotiate for a 60-day period." Where did you come up with the 60 days? A. It seemed to be a reasonable period of time. Q. At the time it seemed to be reasonable? A. Right. 15 Q. Now it seems like it's a little quick? 16 A. Well, this was approved June 19th; June, July, 17 August, September. By the time we put in, we probably will 18 have substantially completed negotiations during the 60-day 19 period. 20 Q. And you anticipate the OPA will be entered into 21 when? 22 A. Depending on how things go, probably September: 23 A second Council meeting in September will be the public 24 hearing, joint public hearing. 25 Q. "During which a selected participant shall be 263 1 required to provide adequate assurances to the Agency that 2 the participant has definitive plans for and is capable of 3 attracting the accommodation and caliber of tenants as well 4 as financing necessary to rehabilitate and reposition the 5 entire Huntington Center into a first-rate, unified 6 development." 7 Has Ezralow provided these adequate assurances? 8 A. We're working on them -- on that now with them. 9 Q. What adequate assurances have they provided? 10 A. I said we're working on that with them now. 11 Q. Okay. Have any of them been provided? 12 A. Well, we're working on them in defining what 13 those will be, and those will be presented at the time we 14 present the Owner Participation Agreement for 15 consideration. 16 Q. Well, it says, "During the time period" -- 17 A. We're still during the time period. We're still 18 negotiating, so we're not done. It's work in progress. 19 Q. Has anything been provided to the Economic 20 Development Department by way of written adequate 21 assurances for these issues, including attracting 22 tenants -- 23 A. Not specifically, no. At this time we're 24 defining what those will be. 25 Q. So they've provided nothing to you in writing 264 25 (Pages 261 to 264) JILIO St ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 after June 19th, 2000? 2 A. I'm trying to think. Anything that's been 3 provided has been provided to you other than the things in 4 the privileged list I don't recall if any of those were 5 after June 19th or not, but did they provide any updated 6 performas or anything? I don't think so at this point in 7 time. 8 Q. When do you anticipate that those will be 9 provided? 10 A. Well, we meet on a weekly basis, so, you know, it 11 could be any time between now and when the Owner 12 Participation Agreement is approved. 13 Q. Okay. So you expect that you will have, prior to 14 the OPA being entered into, adequate assurances that they 15 have definitive plans for and are capable of attracting 16 accommodation of a caliber of tenants? 17 A. Well, sufficient enough for as to render an 18 approval for an Owner Participation Agreement. 19 Q. Now, how do these assurances get provided to 20 , you? Is there some memo saying these are the tenants we 21 have or these are tenants we intend to keep? 22 A. Well, we probably would ask for them to identify 23 tenants that they have committed to the site either through 24 existing leases or letters of intent We will probably — 25 it's not just tenant -driven. We'll probably ask them for 265 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON I A. Let's see, Bryan E—low, Doug Gray, Gary — I 2 can't ever remember Gary's last name with Ezralow. Gary, 3 Jim Hughes. Murray [Cane, Go Duran. Jim Rabe. Rebecca Casey 4 Seidet, Mark Plckek myself, and I think that was it who 5 was there. 6 Q. How long did this meeting last? 7 A. Ob, about as hoar. 8 Q. Was this deposition discussed? 9 A. No, other than just that I had had a deposition 10 and what time, how long did it take, you know, and the fad I I I arrived here on Tuesday at 1:3% and we had a cancel — 12 or was it Monday — 13 MR. TEPPER: Monday. 14 TEE WETNESS: And then had to come back on 15 Tuesday, so — 16 BY MR. TUCEMAN: 17 Q. Did you discuss the lawsuit? 18 A. Not specifically, ao. 19 Q. Well, generally, you did? 20 A. Pardon? 21 Q. Generally, you did? 22 A. Only, in the context of we discussed what a 23 pleasure it is to be in depoddoas with you; but, no, woj: 24 didn't discuss the lawsuit 25 Q. What did you say about the pleasure of having a 1 evidence of financial commitments. You know, we have met I 1 2 witli, their two primary leaders, Principal Group and 2 3 erica, earlier on. 3 4 You know, definitive plans, I think you're — you 4 5 know, that could also be a plan in writing as far as how 5 6 they're going to tenant the center and what their plan is 6 7 for processing plan& It's not necessarily a plan as far 7 8 as a physical drawing of who is going to be where. 8 9 Q. Does the Redevelopment Agency — and you're here 9 10 as the Person Most Knowledgeable from it, and you're the 10 11 Director of the Economic Development Department — have the 11 12 power to say, if Burlington is not included, to tell them 12 13 . to include Burlington? 13 14 A. No, I wouldn't believe we do have that 14 15 authority. INs like we could tell theses -we want Tiffany's 15 16 and they've got to include Tiffany's, but, you know, maybe 16 17 they caWt get TiRhay'& 17 18 Q. Okay. You said you have weekly meetings with 18 19 Ezralow. 19 20 A. Yes. 20 21 Q. When was your last meeting with Ezralow? 21 22 A. It was this week on Thursday. 22 23 Q. On Thursday. That's yesterday. 23 24 A. Yes. 24 25 Q. Who was present? 25 266 267 deposition taken? A. That it's not much of a pleasure. Q. Okay. And what else did you say? A. In regard to what? Q. In regard to the lawsuit. A. We didn't really discuss the lawsuit Q. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Bryan Ezralow about this — about bis need to contact Burlington Coat Factory? A. About his need to contact Burlington Coat Factory? We did encourage them to continue to work with Burlington if they could. Q. What words did you use, Mr. Biggs? A. I don't recall specifically. Q. You don4 recall what you said to Bryan Ezralow yesterday? A. Yeah. Actually, I don't recall specifically word -tor -word We did indicate that they should still continue to work with Ward's and Burlington. The main focus of the meeting on other elements of the project, to ask them to describe their proposed tenant mix and how various players would fit into that, including Burlington and Montgomery Ward's, so we could evaluate that. Q. Well, what did they say about their tenant mix? A. Well, they're going to be meeting next week to 268 26 (Pages 265 to 268) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00. BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 develop that information and provide it to as so we can 1 2 assess that. 2 3 Q. When are you meeting next week? 3 4 A. We meet every Thursday. 4 5 Q. Thursday, what time? 5 6 A. We meet usually 1:30 to 2:30, give or take. 6 7 Q. What did Mr. Gray say about the litigation? 7 8 A. We didn't discuss the litigation, specifically. 8 9 Q. Did Mr. Ezralow respond that he would be 9 10 contacting Burlington? 10 11 A. No, actually, not at that meeting. 11 12 Q. Did he indicate he'd be contacting Burlington to 12 13 you at any time in the past two weeks? 13 14 A. No. Matter of fact, yesterday afternoon I called 14 15 him again and suggested he contact the CEO of Burlingtom 15 16 Q. Why did you do that? 16 17 A. Because the CEO of Burlington had a discussion 17 18 with one of our residents who had spoken with the City 18 19 Attorney and said that Ezralow and the City was unwilling 19 20 to meet with them. And so we just said that Brian is the 20 21 CEO, or the CEO should call him and tell him that, you 21 22 know, and say they would be willing to meet with 22 23 Burlington, but they've been advised by Burlington's 23 24 attorney here in California that they shouldn't meet with 24 25 them except for from attorney to attorney. 25 269 1 Q. Okay. And that's what Bryan Ezralow said to you? 1 2 A. I'm sorry. No, that's what Zurk Mackler 2 3 (phonetic), who knows Mark Nessy, said to Gail Hutton, our 3 4 City Attorney, so that's really by third party. She told 4 5 me if I would encourage Brian to contact Burlington's CEO 5 6 directly. 6 7 Q. You think that's a good idea; right? 7 8 A. Well, sure. Yeah, actually, I think it would be 8 9 good for them to sit down face-to-face. 9 10 Q. Do you want to participate in this meeting? 10 11 A. We told them we would. 11 12 Q. And you would be present? 12 13 A. Yea 13 14 Q. Anybody else from the City that wants to be 14 15 present? 15 16 A. Wants to be present? I doaTknow. Probably 16 17 depending on when it takes place, it would probably be me 17 18 and Ray Silver who would sit in on that. 18 19 Q. Did you speak to Mr. Mackler at all? 19 20 A. No, I haven't spoken to Mr. Mockler about this in 20 21 particular. 21 22 Q. Did you ever speak to Mr. Nessy? 22 23 A. No, I've never spoken to him. 23 24 Q. Did you indicate to Mr. Ezralow that the City 24 25 was -- that this meeting should take place instead of this 25 270 litigation? A. Pardon? Q. Did you mention to Mr. Ezralow that this discussion should take place instead of the litigation? A. No, not specifically. Q. Did you tell Mr. Ezralow about your deposition or Mr. Duran's deposition? A. About the fact that we had been deposed, but not any of the contents of the deposition or the line of questioning. Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Ezralow the fact that the June 5 memo that Mr. Silver initialed but didn't author could haunt you? A. No, no. I'm not concerned about that at all, SO - Q. That's good Your confidence is appreciated. A. Yeah, I'm absolutely certain, you know, that we acted in a proper manner. Q. Did you discuss that memo at the meeting yesterday? A. No. Q. Did you discuss — what did Mr. Kane say at that meeting yesterday? A. I don't recall particularly. Q. Did he say anything? 271 A. Oh, certainly. You know, an hour long conversation with eight people, so — Q. Did — what did the person from Saybrook say? A. We were mostly talking about the potential formation of community facilities district of a mechanism to finance public improvements for the project and what the timing Is to form a CFD. We've used that as a financing mechanism for the proposed waterfront expansion and also probably downtown. So it was to discuss the public financing opportunities. Q. This was when Mr. Kane was present? A. Certainly. Q. You discussed the waterfront with Mr. Kane present? A. No, we used the CFD — Mr. Kane is our counsel for the waterfront, so we were using the waterfront project to illustrate bow we would set up and consider a community facilities district for the project. Q. Who is Mr. Jim Hughes again? A. I believe he's Mr. Ezralow's attorney. Q. Okay. And what did Jim Hughes say? A. Let's see, mostly — well, we talked about formation of the community facilities district and we talked about scheduling for consideration of the Owner Participation Agreement and we talked about Murray Kane and 272 27 (Pages 269 to 272) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 Jim had been meeting and drafting an Owner Participation 1 Ezralow, and Doug Gray. Was there anyone else? 2 Agreement, so they updated people on their efforts. We 2 A. Yeah, I mentioned Gary. I can't remember Gary's 3 discussed a reconsideration of the specific plan coming up 3 last name. 4 on the 7tiL Oh, Jane James was in the meeting as well for 4 Q. What is Gary's title? 5 about the first 4S minutes, give or take. So we discussed 5 A. I don't recall. 6 the schedule for that, and the staff's recommendation 6 Q. And what did Gary say? 7 against the drive -through; the planning staff Is still — 7 A. I don't recall Gary saying anything during the 8 the drive -through, that they drafted language to that 8 meeting. 9 effect; council wants to approve the drive -through bakery, 9 Q. Was there a resolution coming out of that 10 as to what that language would be. 10 meeting? 11 So general -- you know, generally, when we do a 11 A. A resolution? 12 weekly meeting, it's, you know, discussing the financing. 12 Q. Yes. 13 We discussed the schedule for consideration of the Owner 13 A. No, it was just a progress meeting and our 14 Participation Agreement; when Jim Rabe would have to finish 14 negotiations, so — 15 his 33433 report; when Mr. Hughes would have to sign off on 15 Q. Okay. I want to show you a document that's been 16 the DDA/OPA for his client so they can meet the public 16 previously marked as Exhibit 19, and this is -- this is an 17 hearing deadlines. That was the general context of the 17 RAA for the July 17, 2000, meeting of the City 18 meeting. 18 Council/Redevelopment Agency. 19 Q. Was there a report done as a result of this 19 Did you prepare Exhibit 19? 20 meeting? 20 A. No, actually, it was prepared by another staff 21 A. No. 21 person. I made changes to it as a draft 22 Q. Were there any writings exchanged at this 22 Q. These are your initials here? 23 meeting? 23 A. Yes. 24 A. No. 24 Q. Why was this prepared by both the Director of 25 Q. Did Mr. Hughes mention anything about Burlington? 25 Economic Development -- that's you — and Mr. Zelefsky, the 273 1 275 1 A. Not that I recall, other — no, I don't think 1 Director of Planning? 2 Mr. Hughes mentioned anything about Burlington. 2 A. Well, we quite often do joint requests for 3 Q. Who mentioned something about Burlington? 3 council actions when It involves a work program that will 4 A. Doug Gray reiterated that they had received — I 4 involve both departments. 5 think he had had a contact with the vice president of real 5 Q. How does this involve both departments, the 6 estate, and we were talking about, again, encouraging 6 Edinger Corridor? 7 F_zralow to meet with Burlington. And Mr. Gray indicated he 7 A. Because in this particular interest — instance, 8 had received a letter back or a letter had come from you 8 the Redevelopment Agency is paying for the specific plan 9 saying that they were only going to meet with the 9 and also the planner to staff the specific planning effort 10 attorneys, so — 10 and, you know, we are the ones who did the request for 11 Q. Okay. Do you feel that's an impediment, I proposals for the consultants. l2 Mr. Biggs? 12 Q. Would you say that the Director of Economic 13 A. Certainly. 13 Development and the Director of Planning were equals on 14 Q. Why do you feel that way? 14 this project or is one superior to the other? 15 A.- I always fed attorneys are generally 15 A. Well, when you say — yeah, we're probably equals 16 impedimenta.. 16 because, you know, we're the lead department in this 17 Q. Okay. 17 particular instance, the Economic Development Department, 18 MR. TEPPER: You said the same thing about me. 18 because this is for an economic development action plan 19 1 don't mind. I'm not offended. 19 together with the specific plan. So we're the lead 20 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 department, but, you know, we're doing this jointly. 21 Q. All right. What else did Mr. Gray say about 21 Q. Now, this RAA was submitted jointly by you and 22 Burlington? 22 Mr. Zelefsky; correct? 23 A. That was pretty much it. 23 A. Uh-huh. 24 Q. The Burlington people that were there -- the 24 Q. Is that a "yes"? 25 Ezralow people that were there were Hughes, was Bryan 25 A. Yes, sorry. 274 I 276 28 (Pages 273 to 276) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON I Q. Why does it have to be submitted to Ray Silver 1 Q. Do you see there's a CC of it to you there? 2 before it's submitted to the Council? 2 A. Yea 3 A. That's the way our format Is. I mean, they're 3 Q. Okay. Did you request copies of all leases at 4 all done this way. 4 the Huntington Center from Ezralow? 5 Q. How many times in the past one year have both 5 A. Yes, I think we did. 6 David Biggs and Howard Zelefsky jointly on behalf of their 6 Q. Did you receive them? 7 respective developments submitted a request for 7 A. I believe Gas did. 8 redevelopment agency action and request for Council action? 8 Q. Okay. And why did you at the Economic 9 A. Oh, probably, just off recollection, at least a 9 Development Department request copies of all leases? 10 half dozen times. 10 A. So we could determine which tenant should receive 11 Q. Okay. So that's not unusual? 11 the owner participation solicitation. 12 A. It's not unusual, no. And a lot of times there 12 Q. Is there any other reason you requested the 13 are RCAs that are signed by six or seven departments if — 13 leases? 14 you know, quite often they're planning economic development 14 A. No. 15 and Public Works or community services. It depends on 15 Q. And after reviewing those leases, did you t6 what's occurring. 16 determine who should receive the Owner Participation 17 Q. Okay. When you prepared or corrected Exhibit 19, 17 Agreement requests? 18 what corrections did you make? 18 A. Gosh. I don't remember who we sent them out to, 19 A. I don't recall offhand 19 but it would have been the ones just from memory, and it's 20 Q. What effect, if any, did the Edinger Corridor 20 not an exhaustive list. We would have sent them out to 21 plan have on Burlington? 21 Burlington, Mervyn's, Barnes & Noble, Macaroni Grill. I 22 A. Well, Burlington owns the piece of property 22 think there was still one or two of the small shops in 23 across the street, so I think they still own the building 23 place, but Gas might be able to give you a better list. 24 where they used to be occupied So they'll be one of the 24 Q. Did you ever speak to an attorney named Wallach? 25 property owners that be involved in the specific planning 25 A. Not that I recall. 277 1 279 1 effort. This is the one I used, the illustration where 1 Q. Did you ever speak to an attorney for a number of 2 we're planning on doing three workshops with property 2 the tenants who were evicted? 3 owners, tenants, and other interested parties to sort of 3 A. Not that I can recall. 4 develop the ideas. 4 Q. Do you remember if there was an issue with 5 We're going to be developing street scape ideas, 5 respect to that around that, March of 2000? 6 signage ideas, maybe design guidelines for the area, you 6 A. I do know that Ezralow worked with their tenants 7 know, other opportunities for joint marketing of the area 7 to — they either -- I understood they had tenants whose 8 under an economic development action plan. So it's really 8 leases were month -to -month, and they did give notice of a 9 not been defined yet 9 termination. So I was aware that that was generally 10 Q. What effect does this redevelopment plan for 10• happening. As a matter of fack, I mentioned Jim Iamb -- 11 the — 11 one of the things I assigned him to do was to give the 12 A. It's not a redevelopment plan. 12 tenants referrals for other places they might go in the 13 Q. I'm sorry. What? 13 city. 14 A. It's not a redevelopment plan. 14 Q. Was a meeting requested by any of these tenants 15 Q. What effect does your Edinger Corridor Economic 15 with you? 16 Development Action Plan and Specific Plan have on 16 A. Not that I can recall. 17 Burlington's tenancy? 17 Q. Did you ever refuse to meet with any of these 18 A. Wbere3. 18 tenants? 19 Q. At the Huntingtoq.Center mall. 19 A. Matter of fact, I talked to a couple of them on 20 A. None, as far as I can imagine. 20 occasion. 21 Q. Okay. I'm going to ask you to take a look at 21 Q. Over the phone? 22 Exhibit 22. It's been previously marked. Do you recognize 22 A. Over the phone, yeah. 23 Exhibit 22? It's a letter dated April 24, 2000, to 23 Q. Take a look at Exhibit 23. Do you recognize 24 Mr. Duran from Melissa Brian of the Ezralow Company. 24 Exhibit 23? 25 A. Not specifically. 25 A. Not specifically. 278 I 280 29 (Pages 277 to 280) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Q. Okay. Take a look at the — by the way, 2 Exhibit 23 is the May 2, 2000, correction letter from 3 Whitman, Breed, Abbott & Morgan, and then underneath it is 4 the actual letter of May 2, 2000. 5 A. This was in response to the request for owner 6 proposals. 7 Q. Okay. And the development proposal that's 8 Exhibit 23 -- and Ill show you my exhibit. This has all 9 the enclosures with it -- do you recognize this one? t0 A. Again, not specifically. Well, generally, I 11 recognize it as what was included with the request for 12 Council action for — that we earlier referred to in 13 response to the owner participation requests. 14 Q. Now, this was the -- this was Specific Plan 15 No. 13 that was submitted. Why don you take a look at 16 Exhibit 4, the statistical summary, and then look at the 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 one on the back. See if there — MR. TEPPER: Before we get into this thing, you said that this is Specific Plan 13? MR. TUCHMAN: Sure. MR. TEPPER: I don't — I would -- okay. I just want to make sure that I'm correct. THE WITNESS: All right. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Exhibit 4 here had anchors, 82,000; okay? 281 A. Uh-huh. Q. And then to be demolished at 646,718 square feet. This anchors — do you know which store that referred to? A. Not specifically, no. Q. Do you know if that referred to Mervyn's? A. It's the same square footage as Mervyn's. Q. Did you have any input in the preparation of Exhibit 4 to Specific Plan 13, which was attached to Exhibit 23? A. No. Q. It was an alternative of Exhibit 4. It's on the back here. It's part of the exhibit, and this one put in the anchors at 211,488 square feet with -- to be demolished at 517,231. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Do you know why there were two Exhibit 4s that were put on the SP-13? A. No. Again, my understanding was" was just illustrating a variety of developments as it could occur within the parameters of the specific plan. Q. Do you know why the SP-13 document attached to Exhibit 13 has tables that are different from SP-12, which put the 82,000 square feet as Mervyn's? 282 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 A. No, I don't know why. Just, you know, I think 2 , over time I have a recollection that the specific pin 3 should not refer to any tenants, either existing or future, 4 because it's meant to be a more general planning document, 5 even though it's called a specific plan, more specific in 6 the Zoning Code, but it's not a development proposal based 7 on specific tenants. 8 Q. Okay. Let's hang on a second. Now, when you got 9 this SP as part of your -- as part of your OPA, why did 10 they have to submit this SP with their proposal? 11 A. Well, they didn't have to. They just asked them 12 to submit something that illustrated the type of 13 development they were contemplating. 14 Q. Because I had thought that this was a separate 15 process with the Planning Department. 16 A. Well, it was, but, again, you know, they probably 17 provided it because it was convenient because they were 18 working on this. 19 Q. Okay. And when you reviewed the proposal, did 20 you consider the SP-13 in determining if you were going to 21 recommend that Ezralow develop the property? 22 A. Only to the extent that we looked at the 23 conceptual drawings as far as the quality of the site they 24 were proposing. 25 Q. Okay. You considered it; right? 283 1 A. Certainly. They could have submitted the 2 renderings by themselves, and we would have considered it. 3 Q. Okay. Did you write them back and — Ezralow 4 back and say, "Why are you submitting the SP? This is a 5 different process"? 6 A. No, that's unnecessary, so — 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. And they could have submitted, you know — they 9 could have submitted a specific plan that was for another 10 site illustrate — in another city to Wastrate the 11 quality of the project they were contemplating. It was 12 meant to be — if you look at what we asked for in the RFQ, 13 we asked for them to submit something that would indicate 14 the scope and nature and quality of the type of development 15 they were proposed to undertake. 16 Q: Well, this wasn't a "for example," this was right 17 down the line with your project, wasn't it? 18 A. Pardon? 19 Q. This wasn't a "for example"? 20 A. That was their election, to submit the specific 21 plan to illustrate their concept. 22 Q. You didn't send it back to them, did you? 23 A. Well, we didn't send back your proposal and say 24 that it was inadequate because it didn't include this. We 25 just evaluated what was submitted. 284 30 (Pages 281 to 284) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 MR. TUCHMAN: What exhibit are we on, 138? 2 MR. WATSON: Yeah, I think so. 3 MR. TUCHMAN: That was Mark's job. Just kidding. 4 BY MIL TUCHMAN: 5 Q. Exhibit 138 is The Crossings at Huntington Beach, 6 City of Huntington Beach Specific Plan No. 12. Take a look 7 at 138. 8 Do you recognize it7 9 A. Again, not specifically. I mean, I've looked at 10 various drafts of this throughout the process, so this 11 could have been a draft that I could have looked at. 12 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 138 was marked 13 for identification by the court 14 reporter and is attached hereto.) 15 BY MR., TUCHMAN: 16 Q. Okay. Did you prepare this? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Did the Economic Development Department prepare 19 Exhibit 138? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did the Economic Development Department prepare 22 Specific Plan No. 13? 23 A. No. 24 Q. This document here, if you take a look at 25 Exhibit 4 to it, which I see you re going to it — t1-1-1 1 A. That's Exhibit 3. Exhibit 3; Exhibit 4 — 2 Q. Yeah. Do you see that there on Exhibit 4? It 3 says, "Existing to remain, Mervyn's; 82,000 square feet." 4 Do you see that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And then it says, '"robe demolished, 646,719." 7 When you received — when you received — 8 actually, have you ever seen SP-12? 9 A. I don't recall specifically. As I said, I've 10 reviewed every iteration of the specific plan that came 11. through. You know, do I know that this one is the 12 particular one I reviewed, I don't recall. 13 Q. Do you know how it came about — pardon me — 14 that Exhibit 4, which is attached to the SP-13, was changed 15 where it became Mervyn's to anchors?-- 16 A. You asked that a minute aga 17 Q. Yeah_ 18 _ A. Do you not recall the response? 19 Q. I just want to make sun: we're clear. 20 A. My recollection was the planning staff told the 21 developer that it was inappropriate to refer to any 22 specific tenant, and so they deleted — you see here, it 23 went from "Roman's" to "Restaurants" and then from "B of 24 A" to "banks." 25 You know, the other thing I also recall earlier 286 1 on, that when we were — this iteration of the specific 2 plan, what it indicated was while this 82,000 square foot 3 building would stay, there was still in retail plenty of 4 room to accommodate other users, including Burlington, if 5 they chose to stay on the site and/or Ezralow chose to have 6 them stay, whether they had the right of relocation. 7 Now, again, I don't know the specifics of their 8 lease, but that was generally how it was represented to 9 me. So that never caused me concern because existing 10 tenants who were in buildings that needed to be relocated 11 could be moved to another site. 12 Q. Are you aware that this change came about because 13 of the pending litigation between Ezralow and Burlington? 14 A. No, I don't know that to be a fact 15 Q. Did anybody tell you that? 16 A. No, not that I'm aware of. 17 Q. Do you know — it's referred to hereon SP-12, 18 "Prepared by Huntington Property Associates, LLC." 19 Do you know who they are? 20 A. Specifically, Huntington Properties? I don't 21 know if that's — if that's Huntington Center Associates, 22 LLC, but that probably is referring to the Burlington — 23 excuse me, the Ezralow entity that owns the center, 24 whether that's jag a typo or, you know, I have the name, 25 wrong. 287 1 Q. It says Greenberg Farrow Architects. Those 2 people are hired by the City? 3 A. I don't know. I don't believe they were hired by 4 the City. They weren't hired by Economic Development 5 Q. Do you know if they were ever hired by Ezralow? 6 A. I believe they were. 7 Q. Okay. Did you ever speak to Mr. Kota? 8 A. Not that I can recall. Probably Greenberg Farrow 9 has been to meetings that I've sat in where -- the project 10 planning meetings. Do I remember individuals in the firm 11 by name, not necessarily. If he walked In the room, I 12 might say, "Yes, that's someone I've been in a meeting with 13 before." 14 Q. You're not intimately familiar with Mr. Kota or 15 Greenberg Farrow; Right? 16 A. That's not to say I haven't met him, but I 17 couldn't say precisely who he is. . 18 Q. There's another reference here on SP-12, Hall & 19 Foreman, F-o-r-e-m-a-a. Do you know who they are? 20 A. I think they're civil engineers. 21 Q. Okay. Did the City or the Redevelopment Agency 22 hire Hall & Foreman in connection with Huntington 23 Crossings? 24 A. I don't believe so. 25 Q. Did Ezralow hire them? 288 31 (Pages 285 to 288) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 i A. I think they were the consultant team that 2 Ezralow hired, yes. 3 Q. Did you ever talk to anybody at Hall & Foreman? 4 A. Probably. during the course of meetings, but I 5 don't tell specifically who and what it would have been 6 concerning. 7 Q. So if a principal of Hall & Foreman walked in the 8 room, you wouldn't know who he was? 9 A. I might if I walked in the room and I recognized 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 him. Q. Okay. The next one here it says -- A. I'll stipulate to the same thing for all three consultants listed there, if you'd like. I think Linscott Law & Greenspan are landscape architects. Q. Linscott Law & Greenspan. They're what now? A. I think they're landscape architects, one of the consultants working on the project. Q. And they weren't hired by the City or the Redevelopment Agency? A. No. Q. Okay. Now, it says here, "Adopted blank 2000, Ordinance number, March 20th, 2000." Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you know what that means? 289 A. No, not specifically. That would be a question for the Planning Department. Q. Did you have a discussion with anyone from Ezralow as to the representations that were made in court in the first case on March 31, 2000? A. Not that I r AIL Q. This SP-12 that was submitted— that was submitted to the City, were you aware that this SP-12 was submitted to the City when you did your declaration on March the 20th or 21st, 2000? A. I was aware that we were processing a specific plan. I don't know if it referred to Specific Plan 12 or which iteration of the specific plan. Q. When you drafted your — or when you signed your declaration under penalty of perjury-, Mr. Biggs, were you aware or unaware of the information contained in SP-12, which put.the existing tenants to remain, Mervyn's at 82,000, were you aware of this chart? A. Agaia, until I can specifically go back and double check what I had in my possession at that time. I was aware of this chart generally being in various iterations of the specific plan, yes. Q. Were you aware as of March the 21st, 2000, that there was a contemplation in the specific plans that were submitted to the City of Huntington Beach that the premises 290 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 of Burlington Coat Factory would be demolished? 2 A. Yes. On the basis that the developer had the 3 tight of relocation, that they could put them somewhere 4 else in the center. 5 Q. And did you — when you discussed the matter 6 with — when you did your declaration and you went over the 7 drafts of it, did anybody ask you if they were going to 8 raze the structure or not? 9 A. Did anyone ask me? 10 Q. Yeah. 11 A. Not that I can recall. 12 Q. And you would have told the truth if somebody 13 asked you; right? 14 A. Yes. You know, again, this doesn't mean anything 15 would be razed. These are purely illustrative. This table 16 could be shifted. Everything could stay in the context of 17 the specific plan and nothing be demolished. I think 18 that's been — you know, I think you misunderstand the 19 nature of the specific plan. Howard can give you a better 20 illustration of that, but my understanding has always been 21 that these are purely illustrative. It doesn't mean any 22 tenant is staying or any tenant is going, but at least as 23 far as Ezralow is looking at, given what I understand to be 24 their rights, that at that point in time they indicated 25 they were having discussions with Burlington based on — 291 1 well, earlier discussions with Burlington, were talking 2 about moving them Into a new building. 3 Q. When did the Economic Development Department 4 receive SP-12, which is Exhibit 138? 5 A. I can't tell you. 6 Q. This stamp is from the Department of Planning. 7 Do you have your own stamp in the Economic Development 8 Department? 9 A. Yes, we do, but we would have received the 10 specific plan generally from the Planning Department. They i 1 could circulate it to us, as well as other departments, 12 with the developer use memo slips 13 Q. Except for the metro that you wrote, I think, 14 around April 13, 2000, did you ever take a look at SP-12 or 15 SP-13 and ask that language be included or excluded? 16 A. I don't believe so, beyond the written comments 17 we gave the Planning Department. 18 Q. Okay. And those written comments, that was that 19 one exhibit where your name was circled. It's around 20 April 13th, 2000? 21 A. It's a specific written response from the 22 Planning Department that had four or five points that we 23 suggested be incorporated in the specific plan. We 24 reviewed that to my earlier day of deposition. 25 Q. And there were no other written comments to the 292 32 (Pages 289 to 292) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 specific plans other than that one document? A. Not that I can recall, Q. That was Exhibit 12; am I right? Take a look at the last page. A. Yes, that was Exhibit 12. Are we calling them exhibits? MR. TEPPER: Yeah, we are. MR. TUCHMAN: Thank you. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. When you received Exhibit 23 from Mr. Hughes, did you pick up the phone and call him? A. Not that I recall. Q. Did you ever have any conversation with Mr. -- with Mr. Hughes relative to the language in paragraph 6, iii? A. 6, iii? Not that I can recall. Q. Okay. Did you draft that language for hire? A. No, not that I can recall Q. Did you -- did you have a conversation with Mr. Hughes where anyone from Ezralow had stated that their response to your request for development proposal better have some language in there about Burlington? A. Not that I recall, no, I don't believe. Q. Are you aware if Mr. Duran had this conversation? A. Not to my knowledge. 293 Q. Okay. Are you aware Mr. Silver had a discussion regarding this language -at 6, iii? A. No, I don't believe he did. I'm pretty certain he wouldn't have. He doesn't tend to get involved to this level with any projects. Q. Not a detailed guy? A. Well, no, in the nature of our government, you know, the various departments are responsible, and he gets involved when he needs to be. Q. What was Melanie Fallon's day -today involvement with the redevelopment when she was with the City? A. Probably not — you know, maybe slightly more than Ray, but not really. For example, she really wasn't — when she was with the City, she really wasn't involved with this effort, as far as the solicitation of owner proposals, and this would have come through my department. She did as — was one of the people that read — for example, when we submitted requests for the Redevelopment Agency action, she reviewed and initialed that on a cover sheet before Ray did because Ray then usually didn't actually read the staff report as long as Melanie had signed it. I forget the exact time frame of her transition, whether she had already left at this point or not. Q. How often does Ray Silver come out to your 294 1 5th floor offices? 2 A. To my offce? Usually I go to his office. Maybe 3 twice a month. 4 Q. How often do you go to his office? 5 A. It depends. You know, if it's a scheduled 6 meeting — just use this week as an example, we had 7 scheduled — well, we had a lot more meetings because he 8 was getting ready to go on vacation. I'm the acting City 9 Administrator. He was bringing me into things so I could 10 cover him while he was overseas. I probably went up to his 11 office, oh, maybe in five days I was up there for meetings 12 on the 5th floor, not necessarily with meetings he was 13 involved in, maybe four meetings, five meetings. 14 Q. And how many times have you been to his office 15 since January? 16 A. To his office? 17 Q. Yeah. 18 A. Ob, since January, it's probably on an average. 19 You know, it could be up to a dozen times in a week. It 20 can be a slow week. You know, it's not necessarily once a 21 day, but some days it can be two or threes times, so 22 probably hundreds of times. 23 Q. Since November 1999, how many times have you 24 discussed the redevelopment of the Huntington Center with 25 Mr. Silver? _ 1 A. They discussed — you know, to the extent it was, 2 you know, a brief status update or something, probably, 3 specifically Huntington Center, maybe no more than two 4 dozen times. 5 Q. And how many times with Melanie Fallon? 6 A. Melanie and I had weekly status meetings. It was 7 one of the projects I always covered. You know, if you 8 assume it was one a week, maybe twice a week up until she 9 left, you know, maybe 30 times. 10 Q. As you sit here today, you're the acting City 11 Administrator? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And how is that determined? 14 A. Ray makes that appointment. 15 Q. And for how long will you be the acting City 16 Administrator? 17 A. Till the 14th of August. 18 Q. Please hand me that exhibit back. 19 A. Sure. 20 Q. Thank you. I want you to take a look at 21 Exhibit 24. It was previously marked -- 22 MR. TEPPER: How much more do you have in terms 23 of questioning, Counsel? 24 MR. TUCHMAN: A couple more hours, I'd say, maybe 25 three. 296 33 (Pages 293 to 296) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - I MR. TEPPER: The other day when we were 1 2 concluding at 12:30, you said you had two hours total. Are 2 3 we going till the end — till 9:00 o'clock tonight? 3 4 THE WITNESS: No, we're not going till 4 5 9:00 o'clock tonight. 5 6 MR. TEPPER: I just want to know what he has in 6 7 mind. 7 8 THE WITNESS: III be happy to come back. 8 9 MR. TUCHMAN: Whatever you want to do. 9 10 MR. TEPPER: Okay. However, the next time we 10 11 come in here, if you have rough transcripts, you're either 11 12 going to share them or you're not going to question. 12 13 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay, Mr. Tepper. 13 14 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 15 Q. Now, do you recognize Exhibit 24? 15 16 A. Yes. 16 17 Q. Okay. Did you receive Exhibit 24, which is 17 18 Tuchman & Associates' letter dated April 24, 2000? 18 19 A. It came into the department, yea 19 20 Q. Okay. It says, "This is a request for all 20 21 correspondence, plans, and any other documents received 21 22 from Ezralow, Huntington Center Associates, and Macerich." 22 23 Do you see that? 23 24 A. Macerich, yea 24 25 Q. Okay. Did you ever -- was there any reason that 25 297 1 you did not provide plans in response to this letter? 1 2 A. Well, I understand we did. You worked 2 3 extensively with Gus Duran in relationship to this, and 3 4 then we also got separate requests for documentation from a 4 5 litigation perspective, so I believe we have responded and 5 6 given you everything, including what we've given you on the 6 7 privileged log. 7 8 Q. After you got Exhibit 24, did you discuss it with 8 9 anybody? 9 10 A. Gus. He was the one I charged to provide the 10 11 response. 11 12 Q. And did you tell him that he should withhold 12 13 documents? 13 14 A. No, not that I can recall. 14 15 Q. Okay. And did you — do you -know if he withheld 15 16 documents? 16 17 A. Not to the best of my knowledge, that he had 17 18 access to The only thing I bad was the closed session 18 19 documents, and those were the ones I ultimately included on 19 20 the privileged log. I don't really keep separate flies 20 21 from what Gus has other than the closed session riles. 21 22 Q. The closed session file folder you keep or Gus 22 23 keeps? 23 24_ A. I keep. 24 25 Q. Now, this -- did you have an estimate as of 25 298 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON April 4, 2000, how long it would take to respond to Exhibit 24? A. No. I relled on Gus to look at the amount of documents, and how long it would take to provide a response. Q. And do you know how many pages of documents were provided about a month and a half later? A. No. Q. Did anybody tell you not to cooperate with this request? A. No. Q. Do you feel you cooperated with the request delineated in Exhibit 24? A. Yes, like we do in any public records request. It's not unusual to take a considerable period of time because we have other things we work on, so we don't drop everything to do it, but — Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 25 and please tell me if that's your signature. It's a letter dated April 10, 2000, to Tuchman & Associates signed by David Biggs. A. Yea Q. Okay. That's your signature? A. Yea Q. And you sent this out on or about April loth, 2000? 299 A. Yea Q. And did you prepare this letter? A. No, Gus did. Q. Okay. And what prompted you to send this letter back? A. It's normally polite to respond to a letter you receive in a timely manner. Q. Okay. And what was it that you didn't understand about the previous letter? A. Well, in all public requests, you're supposed to be more specific than what you were. You're actually supposed to identify specific documents like under the Public Records Act that requests not just generic documents. Q. Who told you that? A. Who told me? Q. Yeah. A. Our City Attorney and various League of Cities meetings and various trainings I've been to on the Public Records Act. Q. Was it your testimony that you took Exhibit 24 to Gail Hutton? A. No, not specifically. Q. You didn'ttake 24 to any attorney? A. This is how we generally respond to these general M 34 (Pages 297 to 300) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 requests for information under a Public Records Act request, so you don't need to feel singled out. Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 26, Tuchman & Associates' letter dated April 12, 2000. And did you receive Exhibit 26? A. I believe we did. Q. Okay. And you directed Mr. Duran to respond to Exhibit 26? A. Yes. Q. And did you direct him to withhold any documents? A. Not that I can recall. Q. Did you direct Mr. Duran to respond to Exhibit 26 fully and completely? A. Yes, to the best of his ability. Q. Did you ask Mr. Duran to direct all departments which would have all documents responsive to this, including Planning? A. No, actually, we would only respond based on the things we had in our possession. Q. Okay. As of April 12, 2000, did you have a copy of any of the specific plans? A. If we would have, it would have been in Gus' Mes. I don't tend to keep those myself I tend to throw away iterations as I go through them. I don't keep them because they have them in Planning. 301 MR. TUCHMAN: Read the question back, please. (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: Would you read back my prior answer? (Whereupon the previous answer was read back by the court reporter as requested.) BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. That's not responsive. Did you have copies of plans, Mr. Biggs, as of April 12? A. That's my response. MR. TEPPER: That is responsive. Move on. THE WITNESS: If you don't understand it, then, you know -- MR. TEPPER. Move on. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Are you aware if there were any in Gus' files or not? A. I don't know. Q. Okay. You didn't tell hire not to provide them? A. No. Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 27 from Gus Duran to Tuchman & Associates. "We have initiated the process of researching the Redevelopment Agency's and the City's files." 302 1 Was he authorized to send this letter out? 2 A. When you say "authorized" — 3 Q. Yeah. 4 A. — what do you mean? 5 Q. He could sign this letter? 6 A. Certainly, be can send all kinds of 7 correspondence out 8 Q. And when he was speaking — when he wrote this 9 letter on behalf of the City and the Agency in searching 10 the files, he was doing it on your behalf, correct? 11 A. I assigned him to respond to your letter, yes. 12 Q. Take a look at Exhibit 28. Do you recognize 13 Exhibit 28? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. Did you review 28 before it was sent out? 16 A. I don't recall. 17 Q. Did you have Mr. Kane's office take a look at 18 the — at Exhibit 28 before it went out? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. Who prepared the documents that were supposed to 21 be sent out? 22 A. Who prepared which documents? 23 Q. Documents that were supposed to be sent out in 24 conjunction with Exhibit 28. 25 A. I believe Gus. He was the one who authored the 303 1 letter and had the task to compile the documents. 2 Q. Did he do it alone? 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. If you note that there's qualifications or 5 certain descriptions of each of these categories that talk 6 about public records. lt's repeated "public records." 7 Do you see that in each of the categories? 8 A. I see it to some of the categories. 9 Q. Do you know who selected that terminology to 10 respond to these categories? 11 A. No, not otlband. 12 Q. Okay. Did you instruct Mr. Duran to let 13 Tuchman & Associates know if there were documents that were 14 not provided that were responsive? 15 A. Could you repeat the question? 16 MR. TUCHMAN: Please read the question back. 17 (Whereupon the previous question was read 18 back by the court reporter as requested.) 19 THE WITNESS: Not specifically, that I can 20 recall. 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 22 Q. Okay. You're aware that there were many 23 documents that were not provided? 24 A. The only things that were not provided were the 25 dosed session records, and we talked about that earlier 304 35 (Pages 301 to 304) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 today and prior to that, yea I 2 Q. So your testimony is the only documents that were 2 3 not provided in response to the request for documents from 3 4 the City were just closed session documents? 4 5 A. That was our intent, yea That's my 5 6 understanding of what we provided because public closed 6 7 session documents are not considered public records, and 7 8 your request that you submitted is a public records 8 9 request. 9 10 Q. Okay. I'm going to ask you to take a look at 10 11 Exhibit 29 and ask you if you saw Exhibit 29 before. 11 12 MR. TEPPER: What's the date? 12 13 MR. TUCHMAN: May 12, 2000. 13 14 THE WITNESS: I don't recall specifically seeing 14 15 it. I would have -- if it had come to me -- no, it went to 15 16 Gus, so I wouldn't necessarily have seen it. 16 17 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 18 Q. Okay. At the end of the first paragraph, it 18 19 says, "Your responsive letter identifies documents that are 19 20 of public record. If there are documents that are not of 20 21 public record responsive to our requests, please advise 21 22 us." 22 23 Did you instruct anybody to respond to that 23 24 sentence? 24 25 A. No. Again, I don't recall seeing this or being 25 305 1 asked about it. 1 2 Q. Take a look back at -- this is Exhibit 27. Take 2 3 a look at the last page. Do you know why this was CCed to 3 4 Murray Katie? 4 5 A. Yes, we always copy. You know, we get a letter 5 6 from an attorney, Mr. Tuchman, we copy our attorneys on our 6 7 response. 7 8 Q. And that's true with all letters you get from 8 9 auomeys? 9 t0 A. To the best my knowledge, yea 10 11 Q. And that's a written policy of the City? 11 12 A. No, just an informal policy. 12 13 Q. Okay. And why was it CCed to Scott Field? 13 14 A. He's the Deputy City Attorney that's responsible 14 15 for this project and supervises Mr. Kane. Mr. Kane is a 15 16 contract attorney. 16 17 Q. What does that mean, "this project"? 17 18 A. "This project"? •- 18 19 Q. Yea 19 20 A. Means anything in relationship to Huntington 20 21 Center. 21 22 Q. Okay. So when was Mr. Kane hired in connection 22 23 with Huntington Center? 23 24- A. Mr. Kane wasn't hired in connection with 24 25 Huntington Center. I think he was retained by the City in 25 306 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1995 or '% to be the Agency's special counsel. He works on a variety of special, projects related to redevelopment. Q. So when was he first assigned to the Huntington Center project? A. Mr. Kane works really on all redevelopment projects as special counsel. Q. Okay. Do you know when his first activity was on this project? A. Well, back involving Macerich, so he's been involved really to the extent that we've been working with any developers on any potential redevelopment of the center. Q. And also when you say "this project" with Scott Field, does that mean the Burlington issue, the Huntington Center issue, or redevelopment issues? A. Anything that Murray works on, Mr. Field supervises Mr. Kane's firm for the City Attorney's office. Q. Is there anything that Mr. D'Allesandro works on with respect to this? A. Some things. Sometimes Scott will assign other attorneys to work on certain items. Q. Is Scott Field second in command to Gail? A. He's one of two Assistant City Attorneys. Q. Who is the other assistant? A. Paul D'Allesandra 307 Q. And then how many others are there? A. Deputy City Attorneys? I don't know the total, 10. 10,1 guess. Maybe — well, not that many, probably 10, including Gail and two assistants. Q. So Paul D'Allesandro is the same level as Scott Field? A. Paul D'Allesandro is an Assistant City Attorney. Scott is the other Assistant City Attorney, and, you know, depending on who is in the office and what the topic is, you know, there's not a demarcation between who does what, so — MR. TUCHMAN: D'Allesandm is D-, apostrophe, -A-1-I-e-s-a-a-d-r-o. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Take a look at Exhibit 30, and please tell me if you recognize Exhibit 30. A. No, not specifically. Q. Okay. Do you recognize that these were the sum and total of documents that were provided on May 16, 2000, to Tuchman & Associates? MR. TEPPER: I would, again, object on the misrepresentation. Those were the documents that were requested. We played this game two days in a row. MR. TUCHMAN: I think there's a game being played, but not by me. 308 -1 36 (Pages 305 to 308) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON I MR. TEPPER: Whatever. Don't answer it. If 1 2 there's a question that's competent, then you can answer 2 3 it. 3 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 4 5 Q. You can answer the question. 5 6 MR. TEPPER: There is no question that's 6 7 competent on the floor. 7 8 MR. TUCHMAN: Repeat the question. 8 9 (Whereupon the previous question was read 9 10 back by the court reporter as requested.) t0 I 1 MR. TEPPER: Objection. Argumentative. Don't 11 12 answer. 12 13 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 13 14 Q. Are these the documents that were provided on 14 15 . May 16, 2000? 15 16 A. May 16th, 20009 16 17 Q. Yeah. 17 18 A. I don't know. 18 19 Q. Okay. Do you know if other documents other than 19 20 Exhibit 30 were provided to Tuchman & Associates? 20 21 A. I don't know. I didn't prepare the response. 21 22 Q. Okay. Do you know why the enclosures were not 22 23 provided to Mr. Hughes' letter dated May 2, 2000? 23 24 A. No, I do not know. 24 25 Q. You didn't instruct anybody to exclude any 25 I documents, did you? 1 2 A. No. 2 3 Q. You didn't tell Mr. Duran to not include the 3 4 enclosures? 4 5 A. No. 5 6 Q. The memo on the second to the last page is your 6 7 memo with respect to the comments on the specific plan? 7 8 A. Yes. 8 9 Q. Okay. Now, the Design Review Board does not 9 10 report to you, that reports to Planning; is that correct? 10 11 A. No, it reports to the City Council. It's staffed 11 12 by the Planning Department. 12 13 Q. I see. Take a look at Exhibit 31, which was 13 14 previously marked, and that is a memo dated May 26th, 2000, 14 15 and it's the Draft Crossings at Huntington Beach Specific 15 16 Plan -- 16 17 Did you receive Exhibit 31 on or about May 26th, 17 18 2000? 18 19 A. I don't specifically recall. 19 20 Q. Do you know why the specific plan was distributed 20 21 to you? 21 22 A. Well, I think it was most of the time. It 22 23 usually comes to me in the department transmittals from the 23 24 Planning Department 24 25 Q. Did you submit corrections to Jane James in 25 310 response to this memo? A. I don't recall. I don'i believe so, but I don't recall specifically. Q. Did you instruct anyone from the Economic Development Department to provide comments or corrections? A. No. Gas may have done so in the normal course and scope of his duties, but I don't recall if anything came up. Q. Why -- if this is a specific plan, why — if this is a plan that could be, as you call them -- proposals for -- withdraw the question. Why, if this is a specific plan with concepts that could be developed of the property, would you be interested in it as the Director of the Economic Development Department? A. Well, we review — it applies to a commercial area We review all developments proposed for commercial sites to the Economic Development Department, including properties not In redevelopment areas. Q. Are there any other reasons? A. Are there any other reasons that we would have an interest [a — Q. In reviewing the specific plans and making corrections to them. A. Well, I don't know if we did make corrections, 311 but, you know, we generally view ourself as advocates for the business community, so we want to try and make sure that documents like this are business friendly. We were involved in the review of the specific plan for the McDonald's Center Business Park, which accommodates large industrial users, so it's just generally part of our purview, is to review things relating to sites where commercial development would occur. Q. As of May 26th, 2000, you were evaluating the proposals that were submitted by potential developers of the property; is that right? A. You're talking about the owner participation proposals? Q. Correct A. I'd have to double check the exact time frame. It was probably about that time frame. When did it go to counsel? 19th of June? Q. Correct. A. It was probably about that time Name, yes. Q. And did submitting the specific plan to you for corrections by the associate planner have anything to do with your process of selecting the developer for the upcoming meeting? A. No, because this easily could have occurred 10 years prior or 10 years after, so — 312 37 (Pages 309 to 312) )ILIO St ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Q. Did you discuss the specific plan with Ezralow, 1 2 the developer'! 2 3 A. Not that I can recap at this point, no. 3 4 Q. As of May 261h, 2000, you did not discuss the 4 5 specific plan with Ezralow? 5 6 A. Probably at that point in time, the only issue 6 7 that we were down to was the issue of the drive -through. I 7 8 think they wanted us to advocate for two drive-throughs on 8 9 the site and we told them we wouldn't. 9 10 Q. And the specific plan itself discusses whether 10 I there's a drive -through or not? 11 12 A. As to specific use, yes. 12 13 Q. Are there other issues in the specific plan that 13 14 have been discussed by Ezralow by that date? 14 15 A. I'm sure there were, throughout the specific plan 15 16 process 16 17 Q. Because that was part of the participation of 17 18 selecting the developer and working towards — 18 19 A. No. No, not for selecting the developer, for 19 20 just the consideration of the specific plan. 20 21 Q. Okay. Why would you be talking to Ezralow as the 21 22 Economic Development Department regarding the specific 22 23 plan? 23 24 A. Because we're one of the reviewing departments, 24 25 and also we are the department that the business community 25 313 1 comes to if they're running into -- that is more business 1 2 friendly. So quite often if a developer feels like they're 2 3 not getting a receptive reception in the Planning 3 4 Department, that — there's a natural tension that exists 4 5 between Economic Development and Planning. So we sometimes 5 6 work with the Planning Department and have them understand 6 7 the business perspective by the business community, not 7 8 just in this instance, but in most instances. But it's not 8 9 unusual if someone feels that they're not getting the 9 10 business perspective incorporated into a planning review, 10 I 1 whether it be a couditional use permit or a general plan 11 12 amendment. They'll quite often ask us to work with them 12 13 and the Planning Department to help them understand the 13 14 business perspective and the Economic Development 14 15 perspective as part of their review. -- 15 16 Q. By May 26th, 2000, had you determined which 16 17 proposals you were going to select in the Economic 17 18 Development Department? 18 19 A. I don't recall. It wouldn't have been material 19 20 to our responding to this memo. 20 Q. I understand that.. It's a different question of 21 22 whether it's material or not. The question is -- 22 23 MR. TEPPER: He answered it. He does not recall. 23 24 MR. TUCHMAN: Take it easy, Mr. Tepper. 24 25 MR. TEPPER: No, I'm not losing my cool. You re 25 314 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON the one that's been screwing around here for three and a half hours today and three and a half hours the other day. THE WITNESS: I91 repeat that I don't recall. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. Now, let's take a look at Exhibit 32. Do you recognize Exhibit 32? It's a letter dated June 2, 2000. A. Yes. Q. Okay. And you authored -- you authored Exhibit 32 on or about June 2, 2000, and sent this to Bryan Ezralow? A. No, I signed it. It was prepared by Gus. Q. Okay. What was the purpose of sending this letter out? A. Well, one went to Burlington, one went to Ward's, and one went to Ezralow to tell them that they were going to be reviewing and asking the Agency Board to make a determination as to the owner participation responses Q. Had the decision been made by then? A. Had a determination been made by then? Let's see. Working backwards, a request for Council action, it probably was pretty close to being finalized by then. Q. What factors by June 2, 2000, went into your determination that Ezralow was going to be selected? A. It's outlined in the staff report that you've 315 read. Q. The staff report — A. For the Jrme 19th Redevelopment Agency meeting. Q. Did we mark that? A. Yeah, we discussed it extensively. Q. Did we mark that before? A. You gave it to me — you questioned me on it today, so -- it's attached to something else. MR. TEPPER: 23. MR. TUCHMAN: Well, I'm just going to attach this. THE WITNESS: No, I'd like to know which one it was, if I referred to another exhibit. MR. TUCHMAN: Good. We'll find it. THE WITNESS: I could use a restroom break. MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. Use the restroom. (A brief recess was taken.) MR. TUCHMAN: Let's go on the record here. What exhibit are we on? 139? MR. WATSON: Yeah. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. Exhibit 139 is the June 19, 2000, request for Redevelopment Agency action. It's prepared by David Biggs, submitted by Ray Silver. A. Yeah. Just for the record, this is something you 316 38 (Pages 313 to 316) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON asked we about You went sentence by sentence in this mid -paragraph on the second page today. (Pbdntffs Exhibit 139 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached hereto.) BY MIL TUCHMAN: Q. Okay. A. You asked me how do we determine it would be a — 9 Q. That may be the case. 10 A. And this is where you said we'd be back with 11 adequate assurances to the agency. That's the document 12 you're referring to. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25-- Q. You're correct. A. Excessively — I didn't mean that, exhaustively. Q. Is there any reference in your approval, because you had mentioned the basis for the approval comes from the RAA in 139, which talks about what they plan to do, the specific plan? A. I'm sorry. Could you repeat the — Q. Yeah. With respect to the developer, was it part of your decision to select them as the developer based on the specific plan that was submitted? A. Based on the specific plan? Only to the extent the specific plan illustrated a high -quality center as being a possibility compared to the other two proposals we 317 received. Q. Okay. And this developer that you recommended submitted that specific plan? A. Yes. Q. Okay. A. To illustrate their concept in response to the request for owner proposals Q. And the response to the request for owner participation proposals was consistent with the specific plan that was submitted by them in which you liked as the Economic Development Department? A. Sorry. Could you read that back? (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: Im sorry. I don't understand the question. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q. That's okay. We're just about done for today. A. Can you rephrase it? Q. Yeah. MR. TUCHMAN: Give him the question'back. (Whereupon the previous question was read back by the court reporter as requested.) THE WITNESS: If I understand your question, it was immaterial -- there wasn't a requirement for the 318 1 responses to be consistent with the specific plan because 2 there was no specific plan. 3 BY MR. TUCHMAN.- 4 Q. Right. 5 A. So, again, they weren't related. So to the 6 extent the specific plan illustrated the quality of 7 development that Ezralow is proposing, then it was 8 responsive to our request for owner proposals. 9 Q. Okay. Now, when you sent out 32, the proposal 10 that was submitted is this complete package, which is 23; 11 is that correct? 12 A. I believe that it was not necessarily 23. I 13 believe It was — the Ezralow proposal here that's starting 14 with the Clerk's — City Clerk's numbering of F-2-87, I'd 15 have to doable check to see if these pages on top were part 16 of the proposal. 17 Q. Okay. So except for the pages that are on top 18 where you made sure it was the Ezralow entities, and the 19 two corrections, the top two pages of 23, this portion of 20 the 23 is the proposal? 21 A. No, I don't know If this was. This might have 22 been the letter of intenL Itim sorry. I just — you know, 23 Gas could better — basically, Gas is the one who received 24 the proposal. So let me see what's in here. It might be 25 the same. Here's the statement of Interest. Here.'s their 319 1 letter dated May 2nd. It's just you have things on top 2 that weren't in our package that went 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. So that's the May 2nd letter. Aretherearetwo 5 May 2nd letters? It looks like there were two May 2nd 6 letters. May 2nd letter, I to 5, letter of interest, 7 May 2nd letter. Well, there is a version of the May 2nd 8 letter in here. I haven't had a chance to check and see 9 how they differ with what's on top. 10 Q. And the enclosures that were provided with 11 May 2 are part of the proposal that was submitted and which 12 you referred to as Exhibit 32; right? 13 A. Yes. What was included with the counsel is 14 everything we received in response to the proposal. 15 Q. So you got 23 submitted -- except for the top 16 three pages. 17 A. Except for the top three pages, 23 from this 18 thing. It says, "Ezralow proposal, Attachment 3." It has 19 the numbering starting F-2-87 through F-2-268. 20 Q. Very good. That's the proposal that's referred 21 to in 32; is that correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And that proposal was recommended to be accepted, 24 Exhibit 139? 25 A. Not that proposal. The developer, on the basis 320 39 (Pages 317 to 320) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS . A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 of what they submitted to demonstrate their developer 2 qualifications, they were selected as the developer with 3 which we would negotiate. 4 Q. Okay. So the answer is -- okay. I got it. 5 A. So there was no approval of a development concept 6 or a plan. 7 Q. But you selected a developer or you recommend the 8 selection of the developer based on the package that was 9 submitted as Exhibit 23? 10 A. Yes. 11 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. I don't have any -further 12 questions today. 13 How are you on next Friday, the 4th? 14 MR. TEPPER: I'm not, so — 15 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to be available on — 16 MR. TUCHMAN: Let me have my calendar brought up. 17 THE WITNESS: I'm not available. I'm in a 18 meeting all day. 19 (Discussion held off record.) 20 MR. TUCHMAN: On the record. We can't set a date 21 certain. I guess you have a Mulligan trial, and he's the 22 acting City Administrator and the 4th is no good; is that 23 correct? 24 MR. TEPPER: Correct. 25 THE WITNESS: Yeah. No. 321 1 MR. TUCHMAN: Let's talk a week from today about 2 available dates. 3 MR. TEPPER: I won't even be in town a week from 4 today. 5 MR. TUCHMAN: The Mulligan trial is in town, 6 isn't it? 7 MR. TEPPER: No, it doesn't start until the week 8 after. 9 MR. TUCHMAN: Are we a go on Mr. Zelefsky on the 10 11th or we're not? 11 MR. TEPPER: No, we're not. 12 MR. TUCEIMAN: Okay. All right. Well also have 13 to get a date for Mr. Zelefsky and, Counsel, Mr. Tepper and 14 1, will talk. 15 I propose that the reporter be relieved of her 16 duties under the Code with respect to maintaining the 17 original and obtaining signature; that the transcript be 18 sent to Mr. Tepper with a.cover letter CCed to myself and 19 Mr. Watson's office. That's the same as Mr. Shipow; that 20 Mr. Biggs will have 30 days after Mr. Tepper's receipt of 21 the transcript to review it, sign it under penalty of 22 perjury; that Mr. Tepper will advise all counsel of any 23 changes to the transcript and the fact that it's been 24- signed. 25 In the event the transcript is not signed and 322 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 corrected after 30 days, then an unsigned, uncorrected, 2 certified copy will be usable for all appropriate purposes 3 in lieu of the original. The original will be given to me 4 by Mr. Tepper, and I will make it available on all 5 reasonable requests or at any proceedings in this matter. 6 And I think that's it. 7 MR. TEPPER: Except if there's no changes, then 8 copies could be used as originals. 9 MR. TUCHMAN: That's fine. 10 Is that acceptable Mr. Biggs? 11 THE WITNESS: What was that? 12 MR. TEPPER: You don't — 13 MR. TUCHMAN: Third party witnesses, the witness 14 does have to agree to it. 15 MR. TEPPER: I have a question. How much more do 16 you have of this witness? 17 MR. TUCHMAN: I have these documents here. So 18 it's two to three hours is what it is. 19 MR. TEPPER: We don't have unlimited time for 20 him, okay. And I'll go get a Court Order if we get into 21 the situation where we're backing through old transcripts. 22 MR. TUCHMAN: That's fine, Mr. Tepper. I just 23 want to make sure the witness stipulates so we don't have 24 to go down to the reporter's office. 25 Is that okay, Mr. Biggs? 323 1 MR. TEPPER: It's fine. 2 THE WITNESS: Okay. It's fine. 3 MR TUCHMAN: That's fine, Mr. Watson? 4 MR. WATSON: Yes, that's fine. 5 MR. TUCHMAN: Thank you, Mr. Tepper. 6 7 (Whereupon the deposition adjourned at 5:52 p.m.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 324 40 (Pages 321 to 324) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON abbott 167:14 281:3 ability 211:13 230:21 301:14 able 194:22 209:24 213:20 254:22 279:23 above 256:16 absolutely 271:17 acceptable 323:10 acceptance 212:15 212:25 accepted 320:23 access 298:18 accident250:9 accommodate 287:4 accommodates 312:5 accommodation 264:3 265:16 accomplish 198:8 214:14 accurate 226:17, 229:15 251:5 accused 230:9 achieve 253:24 acquire 249:4 acquisition 248:11 acres 246:19 across 206:22,24 277:23 act 211:7 300:131,20 301:1 acted 184:17 271:18 acting 295:8 296:10 296:15 321:22 action 168:12176:23 195:5 220:11 235:9,24 245:17,24 246:9 262:8 276:18 277:8,8 278:8,16 281:12 294:19 315:21 316:23 actions 276:3 activities 184:8,11 194:9 activity 307:7- actual 281:4 actually 171:13 184:22193:21 194:6 204:11 208:1211:13 213:9 222:11 227:21 235:3 236:21 242:8 246:2 254:20 260:3 261:1,6 268:17 269:11 270:8 275:20 286:8 294:21 300:11 301:18 addition 192:9 257:4 additions 169:14 address 241:24 addressed 204:13,15 adequate 264:1,7,9 264:20 265:14 317:11 adjourned 324:7 Administrator 216:24,25 295:9 296:11,16 321:22 Administrator's 199:11 adopt 244:19 adopted 189:5 192:1 194:23,24,24 195:25 214:6 289:21 adopts 189:16,18 advanced 205:17 advise 305:21 322:22 advised 269:23 advocate 313:8 advocates 312:1 affect 238:2,6 affiliated 187:15 after 172:18 176:18 186:19189:20 192:8 195:25 200:24 219:22 232:12,15 236:7 262:20,23,25 263:2 263*5 265:1,5 279:15 298:8 312:25 322:8,20 323:1 afternoon 269:14 again 176:20 177:17 177:21 178:15 179:23 182:17 184:5 187:11 197:24198:25 203:2 213:8 216:16 225:8 237:19 249:23 252:21 253:2 269:15 272:19 274:6 281 10 282:20 283:16 285:9 287:7 290:19 291:14 305:25 308:21 319:5 against 178:2 220:12 273:7 agencies 234:4 245:1 agency 168:12 174:6 174:12 176:15 177:12 179:2,13,22 181:4,16,20,25 183:14 184:17,19 184:20 185:18 187:8,20 188:1,4 188:24 190:1,6 193:10 202:21 203:15 204:17 205:23 206:1 209:1,3 212:11 214:14 215:22 220:25 224:23 226:3,15,25 230:7 232:21233:22,23 235:5 245:17,24 251:13,17 252:9 253:22,22,25,25 254:10,16 257:4 259:14 262:1 264:1266:9 275:18 276:8 277:8 288:21 289:19 294:19 303:9 315:17 316:3,23 317:11 Agency's 302:24 307:1 Agency -initiated 184:1 agenda 186:1 agendas 186:6 249:2 ago 169:15,18 181:24 237:14 286:16 agree 202:4 323:14 Agreement 207:19 211:15 212:19 213:19,19 214:7 236:1,8,9 246:10 264:14 265:12,18 272:25 273:2,14 279:17 agreements 255:4 ahead 215:12 242:25 ALAN 167:14 allow 194:8 254:11 254:17 alone 304:2 along 228:13 already 177:19 195:21 214:1 226:20 233:1 236:8 237:5 238:9 294:23 alternative 191:13 191:13 282:12 always 179:9,11,22 230:11238:8 240:12 248:24 251:10 274:15 291:20 296:7 306:5 amendment 183:20 183:22,22 209:13 209:13,17,18 211:19,20 214:12 214:12 215:1,1 314:12 amendments 176:8 176:11,18 among 216:14 230:6 amortized 195:1 amount 237:23 238:2 256:21 262:22 299:3 Amy 166:20 analysis 258:12 analyze 256:8 258:14 anchor 255:21 anchored 252:23 anchors 281:25 282:3,14 286:15 and/or 287:5 Angeles 166:25 167:5,11,16 169:2 another 173:22 174:23 240:20 242:2,21247:4 248:12 256:22 257:13 275:20 284:9,10 287:11 288:18 316:13 answer 168:20 173:24177:3 178:9 179:5,7,19 181:10,11 189:24 189:25 194:1 196:2 216:4 220:19 221:7,11 229:15,15 231:1,4 261:15 302:5,6 309:1,2,5,12 321:4 answered 177:9 221:2 231:2 314:23 answers 170:10 anticipate 239:19 262:17 263:20 265:8 anticipated 239:19 anticipating 205:19 anybody 169:18 172:13,13 174:2 194:2 205:3 223:18 226:19 243:3 251:25 255:7 261:3,10 270:14 287:15 289:3 291:7 298:9 299:9 305:23 309:25 anyone 176:2 178:4 178:6189:6 200:4 207:2 220:16,22 221:2 226:20 232:18,20,22 233:21234:10,12 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 325 236:13 248:6 252:2,5 257:11 261:6 275:1 290:3 291:9 293:20 311:4 anything 169:14 173:21 197:17 201:23 205:3 209:25 210:18 212:9 213:16 214:19 224:6 254:25 257:16,19 258:5 261:12 262:2,5 264:19 265:2,6 271:25 273:25 274:2 275:7 291:14 306:20 307:16,18 311:7 312:21 anytime 201:5 apostrophe 308:12 APPEARANCES 167:1 appears 182:20 188:15 applicant 174:7,7;8 174:12175:18 176:6,8,10,17 177:19 179:24 181:19,21 184:20 187:16,25 188:6,19 188:22 204:4 209:12 210:18 214:25 215:5 216:8,12 220:9,10 220:11 applicants 176:13,14 177:12 179:24 186:23 187:5,9 application 180:8,13 180:16 183:10,17 183:21 184:13,24 189:3,4 204:8,11 208:15,18,22,24 210:5 211:2,10,16 212:5 224:24 225:24 226:5,7,12 226:16 applications 209:19 210:17 211:18 applied 194:15 209:25 211:2,13 212:2 applies 311:16 apply 194:18 195:13 195:14 appointed 236:23 appointment 296:14 appraisers 207:9 appreciated 271:16 appropriate 180:6 181:5 323:2 approval 188:20 265:18 317:15,16 321:5 approve 200:13,14 200:15 235:10 244:19 273:9 approved 180:18 189:10 190:2 192:8 237:17 244:5 246:13 263:10,16 265:12 approximately 240:15 April278:23 292:14 292:20 297:18 299:1,19,24 301:4 301:20 302:10 Arbitration 229:4,25 architect 207:8 architects 288:1 289:14,16 architectural 210:8 area 174:10 180:4,19 182:11,13,19 183:25 189:9,11 190:7,15 192:15 197:17 211:8 213:25 214:2 227:2 234:22 235:11 237:1 238:9 240:16,23 244:19,21 246:17 246:19 278:6,7 311:17 areas 213:25,25 214:2 236:18 311:19 argumentative 177:2 221:12 309:11 arising 248:12 arose 223:15 around 280:5 292:14 292:19 315:1 array 260:6 arrived 267:11 aside 211:24 asked 170:7177:9 195:7 205:4,7 208:4 222:21,22,23 223:6,7 224:1 228:24 241:10 . 249:23 252:22,24 255:7,10 283:11 284:12,13 286:16 291:13 306:1 317:1,8 asking 189:15 255:15 258:12 260:11 315:17 assess 269:2 assessment 209:14 209:18 210:11,15 211:20 assign 307:20 assigned 217:12,16 280:11 303:11 307:3 assigning 184:4 assist 223:18 256:18 assistant 307:23,24 308:7,8 assistants 308:4 associate 312:21 associated 178:25 associates 165:9 166:9,24 167:3 246:11 287:18,21 297:18,22 299:20 301:4 302:23 304:13 308:20 309:20 assume 188:12 296:8 assumed 255:19,20 assumes 179:15 assuming 190:1 256:14 assumptions 197:18 assurances 264:1,7,9 264:21 265:14,19 317:11 attach 316:10 attached 176:5 238:25 282:9,23 285:14 286:14 316:8 317:5 attachment 175:5 223:21 320:18 attachments 224:6 attempted 228:16 229:2,23,23 attend 186:4 attorney 172:4 221:14 269:19,24 269:25,25 270:4 272:20 279:24 280:1 300:18,24 306:6,14,16 308:7 308:8 attorneys 217:18,21 274:10,15 306:6,9 307:21,23 308:2 Attorney's 307:17 attracting 264:3,21 265:15 August 195:23 263:17 296:17 author 173:1,3,4 214:25 222:13 223:22 271:12 authored 171:8,10 172:14 173:10,11 173:13,15,19 174:4 303:25 315:9,9 authoring 223:18 authorites 244:21 authority 179:1,12 266:15 authorization 180:3 authorized 235:25 303:1,2 auto 194:25 250:9 available 239:8 321:15,17 322:2 323:4 Avenue 206:24. average 295:18 aviv 166:23 167:3,3 aware 173:13,25 174:15 176:7,9 181:1 196:14 201:16,20 203:21 207:2,5,6,10,11 208:18,20,21 209:20,21211:22 212:12 217:7 220:16 229:2,22 232:17 248:7 252:7 255:3,16,19 255:25 257:1 280:9 287:12,16 290:8,11,16,18,21 290:23 293-24 294:1 302:17 304:22 away 248:15 301:24 A-1-1-e-s-a-n-d-r-o 308:13 B 286:23 back 171:7 174:20 175:20,22 177:5 181:12 186:13 193:3,4 204:20 213:10,12 221:8 224:10 228:3,4,19 228:22 229:17 231:5,7 240:3 242:18 267:14 274:8 281:17 282:13 284:3,4,22 284:23 290:19 296:18 297:8 300:5 302:1,3,4,7 304:16,18 306:2 307:9 309:10 317:10 318:12,14 318:21,23 backing 323:21 backwards 315:21 bakery 273:9 ballmer 167:9 171:8 173:19 174:4 217:22 218:1 243:20 bankruptcy 254:22 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON banks 286:24 Barnes 193:25 279:21 based 185:13 206:5 211:3 220:19 222:2 223:16 247:22 249:14,20 249:23 251:3 258:23 283:6 291:25 301:18 317:21,23 321:8 basically 211:18 217:16 240:15 246:19 250:7 319:23 basis 217:14,14,23 217:25 220:7 225:12 226:2,10 265:10 291:2 317:16 320:25 battery 194:25 beach 165:5 166:5 168:10174:18 188:25 193:10 199:14,22 200:16 202:21 203:15 - 204:17 206:25 220:25 232:21 233:23 234:3,13 245:4,16 248:11,20 249:8 250:13 251:1,8,18 259:14 262:1 285:5,6 290:25 310:15 beating 219:13 became 208:21 220:9 224:23 286:15 become 249:11 becomes 212:19 258:9 before 166:20 170:16,17 180:21 186:17,19 191:19 200:21,24 201:1 205:17 208:2,10 212:22 219:10 221:8 228:4 232:15 233:13 234:17 235:22 236:12 239:23 260:22 261:1 262:18 277:2 281:18 288:13 294:20 303:15,18 305:11316:6 beginning 212:16 behalf 166:19169:6 207:7 277:6 303:9 303:10 being 170:4 179:11 182:15 183:3 187:19,25 189:5 Page 326 194:24 195:1,23,24 196:12 208:25 213:21 214:5 226:4 249:24 250:19 265:14 290:21 305:25 308:24 315:22 317:25 belief 185:9.12 believe 171:3 179:8 179:21 180:2 181:17 183:18 194:3,14,17 197:13 198:5,19 206:6 207:22 209:7 211:12 215:2 224:5,8 227:12 228:15 243:25 251:4 252:10 261:24 266:14 272:20 279:7 288:3,6,24 292:16 293:23 294:3 298:5 301:6 303:25 311:2 319:12,13 believed 247:24 believes 254:10,16 BERKMAN 167:9 Bernard's 241:24 besides 181:23 203:18 209:17 212:6 219:9 best 176:23,25 179:3 183:7,11 216:22 230:20,20 233:3 253:24 298:17 301:14 306:10 better 195:10 196:2 233:19 238:8 240:2 279:23 291:19 293:21 319:23 better -suited 209:23 between 177:24 205:19 206:6 219:7 229:18 265:11 287:13 308:10 314:5 beyond 292:16 bids 234:17 big 211:9,14 biggs 165:19 166:19 167:8 169:5,13 174:2 220:13,19 228:20 252:18 268:13 274:12 277:6 290:15 299:20 302:10 316:23 322:20 323:10,25 bit 171:18 208:19 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON- 210:24 black -and -white 239:25 blank 289:21 block 255:2 blueprint 192:25 Board 209:14,19 210:1,7 211:21 247:11 310:9 315:17 Bobbie 170:13 booth 198:18 200:16 232:24 233:3,6 239:11 241:9,23 242:1 booths 233:8 boss 196:25 202:11 both 223:14 238:22 248:17,17 254:1 275:24 276:4,5 277:5 bottom 171:22 172:1 Boulevard 166:24 167:4 Brainy 193:24 break 210:24 316:15 breed 167:14 281:3 Brian 269:20 270:5 278:24 brie[ 202:25 238:17 296:2 316:17 briefly 244:3 bringing 182:10 295:9 Broadway 261:8 brought 178:2 321:16 BRUCE 167:9 Bryan 227:22 267:1 268:7,15 270:1 274:25 315:11 budget 184:10 budgeted 184:10 . building 191:4 192:11,18 193:3,5 193:8,11,18 214:25 239:17 240:17 241:1,3 253:12' 277:23 287:3 292:2 buildings.191:20,21 193:2 214:5,9- 247:3 287:10 built 182:9,24184:9 burlington 165:5 166:5 177:25 178:1 191:2 193:24 199:4,7 201:2,21,24 202:1 203:24 204:25 209:5 217:21 219:8 220:20 221:1,5,8,13 227:6 227:10,25 228:16 229:2,23 230:22 232:18,23 233:6 239:13,15,17,21 240:10,14,18,25 241:18,22 242:13 246:22 247:25 250:13,19 251:2,7 251:19 252:1,10,18 252:22 254:3,6 255:3,8,14,16,19 255:23,23 256:9 257:17,20 258:2,6 261:3 266:12,13 268:8,10,12,19,22 269:10,12,15,17,23 273:25 274:2,3,7 274:22,24 277:21 277:22 279:21 287:4,13,22 291:1 291:25 292:1 293:22 307:14 315:15 Burlington's 197:14 233:3 241:4 255:25 269:23 270:5 278:17 Burlington/Ezralow 219:4 business 184:13 192:15 196:16,18 233:19 237:15 251:19 261:2 312:2,3,5 313:25 314:1,7,7,10,14 businesses 237:24 buy 234:9,10 buying 234:16 B-i-z 203:7 C 165:19 166:19 167:8 169:5 calendar 321:16 caliber 264:3 265:16 California 165:1,6 166:1,6,22,25 167:5,11,16 169:2 193:21244:18,23 245:2 269:24 call 178:7 211:8 233:10 253:16 269:21293:11 311:10 called 169:6 215:4 218:10 219:12 257:13 269:14 283:5 calling 293:5 Calls 215:6 came 215:3,20 216:1 223:3 286:10,13 287:12 297:19 311:8 cancel 267:11 cap 256:15 capable 264:2 265:15 capacity 184:17 care 256:19 Carol 257:13,19 case 165:8 166:8 182:8,23 185:5,7 217:21 229:9 248:16 256:7,10 259:6 290:5 317:9 Casey 257:24,25 267:3 categories 304:5,7,8 304:10 cause 208:12 221:6 241:17 254:25 caused 225:6 287:9 CC 279:1 CCed 306:3,13 322:18 center 165:9 166:9 181:15 184:21 187:16 190:12,14 190:14,18192:15 193:15,18195:5 196:20 197:12 198:1203:25 206:2,24 210:20 212:22 214:4,15,20 232:3 233:13,18,20 234:9,11,17 236:14 238:3,22 246:11,12 246:20 247:1 249:11,17 251:14 251:15 252:23 253:1,15,24 254:2 254:11,17 255:2,17 257:6,7 258:9 259:22 260:1 261:8 264:5 266:6 278:19 279:4 287:21,23 291:4 295:24 296:3 297:22 306:21,23 306:25 307:4,12,15 312:5 317:24 Centers 193:23 197:12 CEO 269:15,17,21 269:21270:5 certain 187:13 229:20 250:24 253:9 256:18 262:22 271:17 294:3 304:5 307:21 321:21 certainly 178:11 181:18 201:18 212:25 251:6,10 272:1,12 274:13 284:1 303:6 certified 166:20 169:8 323:2 CFD 272:7,15 chance 235:22 320:8 change 183:22 195:24 215:5 287:12 changed 286:14 changes 169:13 200:18 224:10,13 254:1275:21 322:23 323:7 changing 216:8,12 characterize 216:16 228:9 charge 245:6 charged 298:10 chart 290:18,21 chatted 186:18 check 229:14 290:20 312:15 319:15 320:8 checking 193:7 chicken 235:19 236:5 chose 251:4 287:5,5 CIM 218:13 cinemas 261:5,8,9 circle 240:2,23 circled 292:19 Circuit 193:24 circulate 292:11 cities 249:1,5 300:18 City's 180:1 192:5 302:24 City -generated 172:8 City -initiated 179:11 179:14,17,22 183:15,25 civil 288:20 clamor 249:25 250:3 clamored 249:11 clamoring 250:8 clarification 177:14 177:15,20178:3,5 178:11,20 211:5 clarified 177:11 clear 171:12 221:4 286:19 Clerk's 203:9 319:14 319:14 client 217:4 273:16 climate 248:10,18 close 315:22 closed 242:24 298:18 298:21,22 304:25 305:4,6 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 327 coat 165:5 166:5 220:20 246:22 250:13,20 251:2,7 251:19 252:1,10,18 254:3,7 255:3 257:17,20 261:4 268:9,10 291:1 code 171:20 185:13 189:17,19 193:8 195:16,20 244:18 245:2,11 283:6 322:16 Codes 193:5 collect 225:5 color 197:22 203:11 240:7 colored 238:21 com 203:7 combination 223:14 225:12 come 172:8 189:13 191:4 212:13 215:16,18,19 217:10 218:12 231:25 233:4 236:7 247:6 249:13 250:16 263:11 267:14 274:8 294:16,25 297:8,11305:15 comes 193:1 207:20 218:9 247:10 310:23 314:1 317:16 coming 273:3 275:9 command 307:22 commencing 166:22 comment 202:4 comments 188:18 201:13,20 202:1 254:3 292:16,18,25 310:7 311:5 commercial 311:16 311:17 312:8 Commission 180:22 221:24 222:20,25 223:4,12,16 224:2 235:9,18,20 236:3 236:7 237:4,6 Commissioner 222:23 237:6 commissioners 223:8 223:17 226:22 227:5 228:16 236:21 commitments 259:16 261:1 266:1 committed 259:14 265:23 communicate 234:4 234:6,8 communication 208:12 communications 216:9 community 244:23 249:10,24,25 250:4 250:7 251:11 252:4 272:5,17,23 277:15 312:2 313:25 314:7 Companies 210:17 company 165:10,11 165:11,11 166:10 166:11,11,11 198:16,17 208:13 246:11 261:12 262:5 278:24 compared 248:22 317:25 Compel 229:4,24 competent 309:2,7 compile 304:1 complained 235:21 complete 224:3 261:13 319:10 completed 233:14 263:18 completely 301:13 complicated 218:3 comply 261:18 composition 254:2 258:8 comprehensive 246:12,15,21 254:1 computer 170:25 conceivably 214:6,9 concept 232:1 251:20,23 284:21 318:6 321:5 concepts 210:23 311:12 " conceptual197:9,25 198:2,4,5,6,9,10 241:3 242:14 283:23 concern 178:4,12 251:7 287:9 concerned 178:19 188:2 260:16,23 271:14 concerning 289:6 concerns 256:3 concluding 297:2 condemn 247:25 conditional 314:11 conditions 254:6 conduit 212:11 confidence 271:16 confirm 257:5 conform 194:22 237:20,21 conformance 189:14 189:22 192:6 conformed 192:16 conformity 193:11 conforms 193:7 conjunction 303:24 connection 181:14 262:6 288:22 306:22,24 consider 250:14 272:17 283:20 considerable 299:15 consideration 176:21 177:18 178:15 188:11,20 192:22 215:13 264:15 272:24 273:13 313:20 considerations 216:23 237:10 considered 176:7,17 180:21 194:6,24 196:13 212:8 283:25 284:2 305:7 considering 215:11 216:20 218:5 consistent 318:9 319:1 consistently 249:17 253:11 consists 253:1 consolidated 240:18 construction 194:7 consult 188:10 consultant 180:20 289:1 consultants 207:6 257:4,8 276:11 289:13,17 contact 198:24 207:16,22 227:25 228:1 249:21,21 268:8,10 269:15 270:5 274:5 contacting 269:10,12 contacts 228:8 contained 245:7 290:16 --- contemplate 194:18 contemplated 206:20 contemplating 283:13 284:11 contemplation 290:24 contents 271:9 context 189:12 191:4 202:15 218:12. 267:22 273:17 291:16 continuation 185:10 continue 213:17 232:13 268:11,19 continued 255:23 contract 180:18 212:20 306:16 contractural 230:6 230:10,16,22 255:11 control 254:18 controversy 178:24 convenient 283:17 convention 197:4,20 199:9,16 200:21 201:1,24 203:12,23 239:7,8 conversation 219:12 219:15,16,19 268:7 272:2 293:13,19,24 conversations 218:25 convey 259:15 cool 314:25 cooperate 299:9 cooperated 299:12 cooperative 229:21 coordinating 218:21 copies 234:22 279:3 279:9 302:9 323:8 copy 174:22 200:1 242:21301-20 306:5,6 323:2 core 233:18,19 corporate 233:20 Corporation 165:6 166:6 correct 174:14 180:8 182:5 192:25 205:4 211:22 213:2 225:3 226:17,18 235:14 236:18 243:22,24 243:25 245:8 246:13 259:4 276:22 281:22 303:10 310:10 312:14,18 317:13 319:11 320:21 321:23,24 corrected 277:17 323:1 correction 281:2 corrections 277:18 310:25 311:5,24,25 312:21 319:19 correspondence 297:21 303:7 Corridor 180:19 182:9,23 276:6 277:20 278:15 costs 256:16,25 council 180:3,22 243:3 247:25 248:13,21 249:2,22 250:10 263:23 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 273:9 276:3 277:2 277:8 281:12 310:11 315:21 Council/Redevelo»- 275:18 counsel 167:1 272:1 296:23 307:1,6 312:17 320:13 322:13,22 counter -productive 260:8 county 165:2 166:2 249:5 couple 169:14 208:5 232:5 280:19 296:24 course 176:23 180:5 184:7,12 211:11 216:18 223:20,22 261:2 289:4 311:6 court 165:1 166:1 175:22181,12 213:12 228:22 231:7 238:24 285:13 290:4 302:3,7 304:18 309:10 317:4 318:14,23 323:20 courtesy 233:10 cover174:20 175:7 294:20 295:10 322:18 covered 227:2 229:5 296:7 covering 189:11 covers 214:1 co -applicant 179:23 185:1,19 187:20 204:4 208:25 co -applicants 179:2 179:13 204:18 224:23 co -tenancy 258:9 create 203:3 criteria 192:14 criticism 227:5 criticize 202:13 crossing 216:17 Crossings 168:10 186:2,8 198:22 199:23 202:22 203:16,20 210:19 217:24 238:21 252:12,19 285:5 288:23 310:15 cross -sectioned 240:16 cue 249:19 cure 263:3,4,5,6 curious 234:25 current 182:6 195:1 231:11 239:16,18 Page 328 247:21 currently 193:14 C-a-s-e-y 257:25 CA199:11 5 D 308:12 data 247:10 date 176:10,18 204:14 219:14,19 222:5 226:1,4 231:16 258:3 305:12 313:14 321:20 322:13 dated 208:7 223:19 224:17 245:24 278:23 297:18 299:19 301:4 309:23 310:14 315:6 320:1 dates 219:12 247:22 322:2 david 165:19 166:19 167:8 169:5 277:6 299:20 316:23 day 171:5 172:19 186:12 196:15 213:22 232:24 292:24 295:21 297:1 315:2 321:18 days 169:14,18 171:13 196:1 208:5 231:17,22,24 262:22,22 263:11 295:11,21 308:23 322:20 323:1 day-to-day 217:14 294:10 DDA 261:1 DDAs 260:24 DDA/OPA 273:16 deadlines 273:17 decide 197:7 250:21 decided 197:5 decides 191:15 decision 230:2 261:22 315:19 317:21 declaration 290:9,15 291:6 default 262:24,25,25 263:5 defeated 219:25 defendants 165:13 166:13 167:13 defined 278:9 defining 264:12,24 definitive 264:2 265:15 266:4 6 degree188:17 227:1 227:25 228:1 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00- BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON Delaware 165:9,10 165:11 166:9,10,11 deleted 224:7 286:22 delineated 299:13 demarcation 308:10 demo 190:17,23 democracy 250:11 demolish 190:25 191:2,3 214:24 demolished 282:2,14 286:6 291:1,17 demolition 191:14 191:20 192:9 194:2,7 demonstrate 321:1 department 174:17 183:13 184:16,19 188:3 203:10 207:21 208:9 211:19,25 212:10 217:13 218:11 232:22 233:22 245:12,12 246:5 252:10 255:20 262:2,3 264:20 266:11 276:16,17- 276:20 279:9 283:15 285:18,21 290:2 292:3,6,8,10 292:17,22 294:17 297:19 310:12,23 310:24 311:5,15,18 313:22,25 314:4,6 314:13,18 318:11 departments 276:4,5 277:13 292:11 294:8 301:15 313:24 depending 195:24 240:21 247:4 256:23 258:8 263:22 270:17 308:9 depends 182:14,22 192:13,19 202:15 205:14 207:17 252:13,21,22 277:15 295:5. depicted 199:20 deposed 271:9 deposit 262:11,13.15 262:18 263:1 deposited 262:22 deposition 165:18 166:19169:17,19 170:6,11 172:17918 172:20174:21 229:5 267:899 --268:1271:697,9 292:24 324:7 depositions 173:6 229:18 267:23 Deputy 306:14 308:2 describe 268:21 described 212:2 describing 217:9 Description 168:9 descriptions 304:5 design 193:4 209:14 209:18 210:1,7 211:20 237:22 278:6 310:9 detailed 294:6 determination 204:1 238:6 315:18,20,24 determinations 191:23 determine 210:17 211:1 227:8 250:1 255:7 256:12 279:10,16 317:8 determined 251:18 251:22 252:15 253:23 256:15 258:15 259:10,19 296:13 314:16 determines 238:4 determining 256:5 259:9 283:20 develop 212:7 269:1 278:4 283:21 developed 198:11 205:15 212:23 311:13 developer 212:15 213:1,17 214:22 236:16 239:14 241:7 242:16 255:9 256:19,24 257:1 258:12 261:23 262:9 286:21 291:2 292:12 312:22 313:2,18,19 314:2 317:20,21318:2 320:25 321:1,2,7,8 developers 234:16 239:10 241:10 260:4,25 262:13 307:11312:10 developer's 256:17 257:2 developing 189:9 241:10 278:5 development 174:17 183:12 184:15,19 188:3 189:18 192:4 195:3 196:16,17,18 203:10 211:25 212:10 213:19 217:13 218:11 232:22 233:18,22 235:17 236:9 252:10 254:11,16 257:5 258:23 262:2 264:6,20 266:11 275:25 276:13,17,18 277:14 278:8,16 279:9 281:7 283:6 283:13 284:14 285:18,21288:4 292:3,7 293:21 311:5,15,18 312:8 313:22 314:5,14,18 318:11319:7 321:5 developments 277:7 282:21 311:17 develops 236:13 differ 320:9 different 221:14 231:4 282:24 284:5 314:21 difficulties 177:22 diligence 234:15,18 234:19 Dinovitz 175:7,11,14 175:17 176:2 187:15 207:16,20 208:8 209:11 direct 246:9 301:10 301:12,15 directed 301:7 directive 184:18 directly 270:6 Director 174:17 179:4 183:12 184:4,15 185:4 188:2 216:25 235:17 252:9 266:11275:24 276:1,12,13 311:14 discern 208:19 discretionary 192:5 193:6195:5 discuss 170:2,10 172:23,25 173:7 175:16 201:2,13 209:11219:1,4,7 229:10 267:17,24 268:6 269:8 271:11,19,22 272:9 298:8 313:1,4 discussed 173:6,17 175:23,24176:2,20 181:24 186:12 217:20,24 219:10 225:13 229:12 231:23 259:12 267:8,22 272:13 273:3,5,13 291:5 295:24 296:1 313:14 316:5 discusses 313:10 discussing 174:1 218:1 235:1 273:12 discussion 175:10 202:15,25 216:21 269:17 271:4 290:3 294:1 321:19 discussions 185:14 186:10 228:5 237:18 239:14 241:20 257:2 259:17 291:25 292:1 display 197:6,8. 198:21 199:16,18 242:4,8 displayed 200:15 242:16 displays 197:3 242:3 Disposition 213:19 236:9 distribute 241:12 distributed 242:14 310:20 district 272:5,18,23 districts 244:7 Division 196:18 document 168:10 204:5 238:21 245:18 275:15 282:23 283:4 285:24 293:1 317:11 documentation 181:23 218:4 298:4 documents 200:10 204:22 225:5,12,18 225:21 244:1 297:21 298:13,16 298:19 299:4,6 300:12,14 301:10 301:16 303:20,22 303:23 304:1,13,23 305:2,3,4,7,19,20 308:19,22 309:14, 309:19 310:1 312:3 323:17 doing 184:11 189:18 206:17 222:3 234:15 276:20 278:2 303:10 domain 248:14,22 249:2 done 179:9 212:20 214:13 216:9 234:19 264:18 273:19 277:4 311:6 318:18 dotting 216:17 double 290:20 7ILI0 & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 329 312:15 319:15 double-crossing 178:17 double -dotting 178:17 Doug 207:18 227:20 227:20,21 267:1 274:4 275:1 Douglas 218:15 219:5 down 190:18 191:19 215:3 270:9 284:17 313:7 323:24 downtown 182:7 189:9,11 213:25 218:14 238:9 248:12,16 272:9 dozen 277:10 295:19 296:4 draft 181:7 185:10 187:12 222:4 275:21285:11 293:17 310.15 drafted 183:6 220:14 220:17 -246:1 273:8 290:14 drafting 218:4 273:1 drafts 208:2 285:10 291:7 drawing 266:8 drawings 283:23 driven 250:7 258:3 drive -through 188:16 273:7,8,9 313:7,11 drive-throughs 196:10 313:8 drop 299:16 drove 237:7 due 230:5 234:15,18 234:18 262:20 duly 169:7 Duran 169:24 170:2 170:7 173:18,21 190:18 217:8 229:10,22 232:6 243:11 267:3 278:24 293:24 298:3 301:7,12,15 302:22 304:12 310:3 Duran's 271:7 during 180:5 184:7 184:12 201:6 223:15 228:11 263:18,25 264:16 264:17 275:7 289:4 duties 184:7 311:7 322:16 duty 180:5 D'Allesandro 307:18 307:25 308:5,7,12 D.C.B 243:13 each 304:5,7 earlier179:24 208:4 229:5,7 239:6 261:7 266:3 281:12 286:25 292:1,24 304:25 early 182:9 easement 254:25 255:4 easements 254:20 easily 312:24 easy 314:24 economic 174:17 183:12 184:9,15,18 188:3 203:10 211:25 212:10 217:12 232:22 233:22 235:17 237:9 252:9 262:2 264:19 266:11 275:25 276:12,17 276:18 277:14 278:8,15 279:8 285:18,21 288:4 292:3,7 311:4,14 311:18 313:22 314:5,14,17 318:11 economics 213:21 218:4 economy 253:23 EDD 203:9 EDD's 245:13 Edinger 180:19 182:8,23 276:6 277:20 278:15 Edison 193:21 effect 178:16 185:10 195:2,19,25 238:12 273:9 277:20 278:10,15 effort 276:9 278:1 294:15 efforts 182:8 235:13 237:2 258:3 273:2 egg 235:20 236:5 eh 229:19 eight 272:2 either 178:24 181:6 181:6 222:3 223:2 223:8 241:21 265:23 280:7 . 283:3 297:11 elected 234:4 236:23 election 284:20 element 182:16 207:17 elements 182:25 268:20 employed 207:12,14 employees 234:4 enable 257:6 enclosures 281:9 309:22 310:4 320:10 encompass 212:15 encourage 220:22 221:2,13 233:23,25 234:2 235:9,18 254:1 268:11 270:5 encouraged 232:13 encouraging 235:24 274:6 end 212:16 213:18 213:22,22 251:17 253:21 254:24 297:3 305:18 engineers 288:20 egjoin 220:7 enough 247:25 252:1 252:11,20 265:17 ensure176:25 177:17,22 178:15 2.15:12 216:22 235:10 236:25 enter 214:6 259:18 261:1,20 entered 177:1 237:17 260:22,24 262:19 262:21 263:20 265:14 entering 236:16 237:12 259:1,4,10 262:10 entertainment 251:15 entire 214:1 264:5 entities 187:14 188:5 189:1 207:4 212:9 212:17 319:18 entitled 168:10 entitlement 194:4,5 194:6 entitlements-192:12 194:10,16,19 195:7 195:13,14 entity 28713 environment 214:16 environmental 209:14,18 210:11 210:14 211:20 Equalization 247:11 equals 276:13,15 equation 250:14 ESQ 167:3,9,14 Essentially 191:18 establishing 236:17 estate 228:6,8 274:6 estimate 206:8 298:25 evaluate 268:23 evaluated 284:25 evaluating 312:9 even 179:23 188:16 220:5 223:2,9 229:3 283:5 322:3 event322:25 events 216:18 218:20 eventually 180:20 205:14 236:13 237:4 ever 172:13 174:7 175:7,16 187:16,17 191:15 208:2,10 210:16 215:4 219:4 229:14 233:4 247:23,23 250:17,20 251:25 252:17,18 267:2 270:22 279:24 280:1,17 286:8 288:5,7 289:3 292:14 293:13 297:25 every 179:10 233:2,7 269:4 286:10 everything 211:2 212:12 234:20 250:6 261:17,21 291:16 298:6 299:17 320:14 evicted 280:2 evidence179:16 266:1 exact 196:1294:22 312:15 exactly 215:9,20 217:2 240:21 EXAMINATION 168:2 169:11 examined 169:8 example 178:2 180:1 182:6 183:19 186:2 188:13 190:9 192:14 194:23 210:7 217:18 230:24 240:15 242:5 248:25 255:1 284:16,19 294:13 294:18 295:6 except 211:4,10 269:25 292:13 319:17 320:15,17 323:7 Excessively 317:14 exchange 228:10 exchanged 273:22 exclude 205:3 309:25 excluded 292:15 excuse179:15 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 221:25 222:17 287:23 Executive 216:25 218:10 exhaustive 279:20 exhaustively 317:14 exhibits 168:8 207:24 225:14 293:6 exist 204:22 existence 186:17 241:5 existing 191:21 196:21 214:5,8,19 230:5 241:1,18 246:25 255:10,11 258:4 265:24 283:3 286:3 287:9 290:17 exists 230:6 314:4 expansion 272:8 expect 265:13 expectation 259:18 expedited 192:22 expediting 238:12 experience 206:5 227:9,10 249:14,21 249:24 251:3 255:5 258:24 experiences 169:24 170:4 expert 257:4,8 experts 258:5 express 252:4 expressed 253:5 258:5,7 extensively 175:6 298:3 316:5 extent 237:20 260:7 283:22 296:1 307:10 317:23 319:6 externally 178:25 extraordinary 256:25 extras 238:19 eyesore 249:12 Ezralow's 231:9 272:20 Ezralow-related 188:5 207:3 EzralowBurlington 219:2 face-to-face 270:9 facilitator 182:10 facilities 272:5,18,23 facing 242:1 fact 172:25 179:15 217:8 229.10 230:25 232:20 Page 330 248:2 255:2 258:11 267:10 269:14 271:8,11 280:10,19 287:14 322:23 factor 249:25 250:25 factors 315:23 factory 165:5 166:5 220:20 246:23 250:13,20 251:7,19 252:1,11,18 254:4 254:7 255:3 257:17,20 268:9,11 291:1 Factory's 261:4 fail 261:25 fair 207:15 fairly 205:17 faith 262:12,15 263:1 Fallon 296:5 Fallon's 294:10 false 227:8 familiar 244:1245:3 248:23 259:13 288:14 - familiarity 196:19 far 184:10188:2 205:17 236:10 249:19 252:17 266:5,7 278:20 283:23 291:23 294:15 Farrow 288:1,8,15 fashion 191:12 feel 197:25 203:3 221:6 274:11,14,15 299:12 301:2 feels 314:2,9 feet 193:3,4 253:19 282:3,14,25 286:3 felt 236:6 few 169:18 170:18 192:21 Field 306:13 307:14 307:16,22 308:6 Fifth 167:15 Figueroa 167:10 file 183:21 184:13 260:20 298:22 filed 176:22 184:24 209:4 220:11 files 204:21 298:20 298:21 301:23 302:17,25 303:10 fill 180:13,16 final 208:3 finalized 315:22 finally 194:23,24 finance 256:21 272:6 financial 205:25 206:1 256:24 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 266:1 financially 235:5 256:18 financials 256:8 financing 264:4 272:7,10 273:12 find 183:15 316:14 fine 200:9 241:2 323:9,22 324:1,2,3 324:4 finish 221:25 273:14 finished 261:15 firm 169:25 257:13 288:10 307:17 first 169:7 171:4,15 183:23 184:1,2,6 186:18,20 195:3 209:8 215:23 222:13 228:4 240:12 241:13 251:12 273:5 290:5 305:18 307:3,7 firsthand 227:9,10 first-rate 264:5 fit 252:14 268:22 fits 251:20,23 five 218:6 237:14 238:16 244:7 249:20,24 292:22 295:11,13 fixed 258:25 flavor 198:7 flier 197:23 199:6 239:5 241:25 242:2 fliers 198:25 202:23 203:8,11241:25 floor 166:25 167:4 167:15 295:1,12 309:7 focus 268:20 focused 217:5 folder 298:22 follows 169:9 follow-up 170:18 foot 287:2 footage 237:23 282:7 footer 171:25 Foreman 288:19,22 289:3,7 forget 228:6 240:21 294:22 form 191:12 253:3 272:7 formal 203:4 format 240:20 277:3 formation 272:5,23 formed 252:25 forth 178:11 244:25 forward 236:3.237:5 248:24 254:19 258:22 four 218:6 292:22 295:13 frame 201:4 204:21 205:16 219:6 262:21294:22 312:15,16,19 Freholm 257:14,19 frequent 218:15 friday 165:20166:23 169:1 321:13 friendly 312:3 314:2 front 202:24 243:2 full 261:22 fully 301:13 further 169:11 183:2 239:23 321:11 future 189:7,21 192:22 235:6 238:13 283:3 F-o-r-a-m-a-n 288:19 F-2-268 320:19 F-2-87 319:14 320:19 G 171:19 Gail 43:7 270:3 300:22 307:22 308:4 game 308:23,24 gamut 253:6 gap 205:9,11,13,20 205:25,25 206:10 206:13 238:4 256:5,14,16 garnered 220:6 Gary 267:1,2 275:2 275:6,7 Gary's 267:2 275:2,4 gave 170:23 241:9 292:17 316:7 general 169:21' 172:21 180:2,3 183:19 185:22 189:3,16,19,22 192:24195:20 197:23 199:21 212:24 233:10 248:10,18 249:4 -257:12,14 258:7 273:11,17 283:4 300:25 314:11 generally 170:4 179:11 220:3,5 230:14 237:14 238:1 245:5 267:19,21 273:11 274:15 280:9 281:10 287:8 290:21 292:10 300:25 312:1,6 generated 170:25 206:16 generating 238:3 generic 203:2 300:13 generically 182:3 geographic 244:19 germane 256:23 261:19 gets 294:8 getting 295:8 314:3,9 give 190:9 197:2 198:7,20199:2 238:15 241:11 258:12 269:6 273:5 279:23 280:8,11 291:19 318:21 given 181:5 239:9 257:16,19 262:18 291:23 298:6,6 323:3 giving 228:11 go 178:5,12 189:20 191:4 197:6 213:14 233:12 239:15 242:18,25 260:20 263:22 280:12 290:19 295:2,4,8 301:24 312:16 316:18 322:9 323:20,24 goals 214:14,17 253:24 goes 188:14195:25 228:3,4 257:7 going 183:6184:25 188:23 190:2,18,21 195:17 199:12 205:12 212:6 213:5,16 229:17 238:2,18 239:20,21 239:24 240:10,11 240:19 249:16 253:8 256:16,20 260:23 261:4,7 266:6,8 268:25 274:9 278:5,21, 283:20 285:25 291:7,22 297:3,4 297:12,12 305:10 314:17 315:16,24 316:10 321:15 gone 197:15 204:20 240:15,22 241:3 good 186:13 195:14 221:17 230:14,15 237:14 251:12 262:12,15 263:1 270:7,9 271:16 316:14 320:20 321:22 gosh 231:16 279:18 government 250:6 294:7 grading 194:7 granted 194:11 grants 194:8 Gray 207:16,18 218:15,25 219:5,9 227:20,20,21 267:1 269:7 274:4,7,21 275:1 great 227:1249:2 Greenberg 288:1,8 288:15 Greenspan 289:14 289:15 Grill 193:24 279:21 ground 183:6 group 218:10 257:13 266:2 groups 249:15 guess 208:25 308:3 321:21 guide 235:13 237:2 guideline 192:24 guidelines 192:17 193:5 210:8 278:6 Gus 169:24190:18 217:8,16 223:2,9 232:6 243:11 246:2 267:3 279:7 279:23 298:3,10,21 298:22 299:3 300:3 301:22 302:17,22 303:25 305:16 311:6 315:12 319:23,23 guy 227:22 294:6 guys 205:21 half 218:7 277:10 299:7 315:2,2 Hall 232:11288:18 288:22 289:3,7 hand 197:23 296:18 handed 197:22 241:2 241:9 handing 203:11 handle 199:6 handled 232:25 handout 241:16 handout& 198:12 hands 236:10 hang 283:8 happen 195:17 214:4 240:13 249:19 happening 280:10 happens 240:21 happy 297:8 hard 208:19 220:5 228:9,14 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 331 haunt 271:13 having 169:7 200:25 214:18 228:5 241:20 259:19 267:25 291:25 HBB1z 203:7 heads 246:5 Health 244:18 245:2 hear 244:14 25 1: 11 heard 215:9 221:7 240:13 hearing 181:9,18 182:18 188:14,15 219:22 248:14 250:22 263:24,24 273:17 hearings 180:21 250:16,17 held 321:19 help 215:25 314:13 her 172:5 200:6,8 257:22 294:23 322:15 hereto 238:25 285:14 317:5 hesitant 260:4 highest 257:6 highlighting 199:13 high -quality 251:15 317:24 him 170:8 173:9 174:1 186:19 197:2 201:23 202:13,18 224:11 229:12,14 269:15 269:21,21 270:23 280:11 288:16 289:10 293:11,17 295:10 298:12 301:10 302:20 303:11 318:21 323:20 hire 288:22,25 hired 288:2,3,4,5 289:2,18 306:22,24 history 248:25 Hohman 204:13,15 231:12,15,23 Hold 239:23 honestly 215:20 hotel 206:17,19,22 206:23 hour 218:7 232:9 267:7 272:1 hours 218:7 296:24 297:2 315:2,2 323:18 Howard 179-4196:2 223:9 232:6 245:12 277:6 291:19 Hughes 267:3 272:19 272:21273:15,25 274:2,25 293:10,14 293:20 309:23 hundreds 189:11 295:22 huntington 165:5,9 166:5.9 168:10 174:18 181:15 184:21 187:16 188:25 190:12,13 190:14,18 193:10 193:14,18,22 196:20 197:11,12 198:18 199:14,22 200:16 202:21 203:15 204:17 206:25 210:20 214:4,15 220:25 232:3,21 233:23 234:3,13 238:22 245:4,16 246:10,12 246:20 248:11,20 249:8,17 250:13 251:1,8,14,18 254:2,17 257:6 262:1 264:5 278:19 279:4 285:5,6 287:18,20 287:21 288:22 290:25 295:24 296:3 297:22 306:20,23,25 307:3 307:15 310:15 Hutton 243:7 270:3 300:22 H-o-h-m-a-n 231:12 ICSC 197:3 199:9,12 201:14,17,21 202:20 203:18 218:21,21 idea 230:14,15 240:3 258:22 259:3 270:7 ideas 278:4,5,6 identical 256:1 identification 238:19 238:24 285:13 317:4 identified 247:22 . identifies 305:19 identify 253:19 265:22 300:12 ignored 254:24 II 165:9 166:9 iii 293:15,16 294:2 illustrate 272:17 284:10,10,21 318:6 illustrated 283:12 317:24 319:6 illustrating 282:21 illustration 198:10 205:10 278:1 291:20 illustrative 240:14 240:25 253:6 291:15,21 imagine 206:15 209:3 210:9 225:7 225:16 226:1 227:21 278:20 immaterial 318:25 imminent 248:14,22 249:2 impact 195:2 256:9 impediment 274:11 impediments 274:16 importance 217:3 important 258:9 improvements 191:3 272:6 inadequate 284:24 inappropriate 286:21 INC 165:5 166:5 inception 187:21 include 199:10 205:2 206:17 266:13,16 284:24 310:3 included 203:24 227:11 242:5 266:12 281:11 292:15 298:19 320:13 includes 246:19,22 including 264:21 268:22 287:4 298:6 301:17 308:4 311:18 inclusive 165:12 166:12 incorporated 292:23 314:10 incorporating 246:25 incorrect 243:22 increase 206:10 independent 243:20 INDEX 168:1 indicate 172:11 .268:18 269:12 270:24 284:13 indicated 204:6 233:17 241:19 249:22 260:1 274:7 287:2 291:24 indicating 181:24 182:1 184:18 185:18 204:16 208:13 240:22 indication 258:13 indirectly 223:3 individual 189:12,19 individuals 187:15 288:10 industrial 312:6 influence 250:4,6 inform 228:15 informal 306:12 information 168:16 198:23 215:16 216:10 227:14,16 247:6,8,12,18 269:1 290:16 301:1 informed 261:22 . initial 184:24 186:23 187:5,9 222:4 initialed 246:4 271:12 294:19 initials 171:24 172:6 243:13 275:22 initiate 184:8 initiated 180:24 181:3 189:10 302:23 initiates 180:10,12 183:19 initiating 181:25 183:5 228:17 229:3 inline 196:24 input 234:12 237:6 282:8 instance 174:8 180:1 189:23 214:3 235:24 236:11 248:16 262:14 276:7,17 314:8 instances 174:11 248:15 314:8 instead 208:25 270:25 271:4 instruct 202:18 205:2 304:12 305:23 309:25 311:4 instructed 168:20 229:16 instruction 197:5 instructions 197:2 199:2 229:19 intact 197:15 242:13 intend 265:21 intends 251:13 intent 233:5 260:2 260:10,18,23 265:24 305:5 319:22 interest 188:20,23 207:3,8 232:2 253:5 276:7 311:22 319:25 320:6 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON interested 181:6 234:16,21 278:3 311:14 interfere 230:16 interfering 230:9 interior 191:3 internally 178:25 interrelated 236:19 interviewed 170:4 intimately 288:14 intrinsically 214:10 investigation 227:7 invite 182:25 invited 227:12 . inviting 182:13 involve 276:4,5 involved 205:23 277:25 294:4,9,15 295:13 307:10 312:4 involvement 294:10 involves 276:3 involving 307:9 issue 256:17 280:4 307:14,15 313:6,7 issued 181:15 192:18 214:2 issues 186:9 235:23 236:7 248:12 254:19 255:11 258:9 264:21 307:15 313:13 italicized 186:6 item 262:24 items 307:21 iteration 286:10 287:1 290:13 iterations 187:12 290:22 301:24 I's 178:18 216:17 J 167:14 James 172:4175:17 186:3 200:5 208:8 273:4 310:25 Jane 172:4,5 175:8 175:14,16,17 186:3 200:5,5 208:8 223:2,9 273:4 310:25 Jane's 207:22 January 295:15,18 JC 253:2 255:21 Jennifer 172:4 Jim 196:16 257:9,16 267:3,3 272:19,21 273:1,14 280:10 JM 171:19 job 285:3 joint263:24 276:2 278:7 Page 332 jointly 169:25 197:5 197:7 276:20,21 277:6 judge 249:3 judgment 202:9,16 252:16 j my 165:20 166:23 169:1 263:16 275:17 June 170:18 171:18 172:23 173:14 174:3 175:11,11,12 175:12 176:9,18 186:21 208:1,8,9 209:9 212:8 217:22 218:16,17 218:19 219:1,8,11 222:6 223:12,19 224:3,18,22 225:2 225:9,23 226:2,11 226:14 232:15 235:10 243:22,23 245:16,24 247:21 263:16,16 265:1,5 271:12 312:17 315:6,10,23 316:3 316:22 jurisdictions 248:23 just 169:21 170:4,18 172:21 173:10 174:16 177:11,21 178:15 180:5,18 181:6 182:6 184:9 184:12 185:10,14 187:11 190:14 192:17,24 193:6 195:11,12 197:9 198:25 199:12 202:23 203:2 205:16 206:24 211:4,7 212:4 213:16 214:19 217:6 219:17,18 221:2,4,17 222:20 227:9 228:11 231:25 233:10 235:23 237:14,19 240:2 242:9,15 249:4 253:18 257:14 258:7 261:8 265:25 267:9 269:20 275:13 277:9 279:19 281:21 282:20 283:1,11 284:25 285:3 286:19 287:24 295:6 297:6 300:13 305:4 306:12 312:6 313:20 314:8 316:10,25 318:18 31LIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.O0 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 319:22 320:1 323:22 J.M 171:24' kane 167:9169:25 171:8 173:18 174:4 217:21,25 223:23 224:4,10,18 226:23 243:9,20,24 243:25 267:3 271:22 272:11,13 272:15,25 306:4,15 306:15,22,24 307:5 Kane's 223:21 224:14 303:17 307:17 keep 215:10 265:21 298:20,22,24 301:23,24 keeps 298:23 Keyser 257:9,9' kidding 285:3 kind 170:5 203:2 210:23 230:25 233:18 kinds 184:8,12 235:6 303:6 knew 173:4,10 knock 191:19 knowing 234:21 knowledge 171:10 183:7 233:3 243:21251:22 293:25 298:17 306:10 Knowledgeable 183:14184:16 188:4 252:8 266:10 known 259:3 knows 173:13 216:4 270:3 Kota 288:7,14- L 166:23 167:3,3 label 198:21: Lamb 196:16 201:2` 201:9;20 202:1- - 203:23 280:10 landscape 289.14,16 language 273:8,10 292:15 293:14,17 293:22 294:2 large 312:5 Las 197:3 198:13 199:3 232:17 - 239:7,8 last 170:23 171:17 177:21 178:17 186:13 205:8 208:5 220:19 227:21 231:14,17 231:18,20,21,24 232:8 245:22 263:8 266:21 267:2,6 275:3 293:4 306:3 310:6 later 183:3 235:2 256:5 299:7 law 166:23 244:18 244:24,25 289:14 289:15 lawsuit 209:6 217:13 218:1267:17,24 268:5,6 lead 207:15 276:16 276:19 leading 171:14 218:20 League 300:18 learn 171:15 learned 216:19 lease 287:8 leased 255:22 leasehold 248:1 leases 258:21265:24 279:3,9,13,15 280:8 leasing 197:23 227:22 228:6 least 217:22,25 218:7 229:24 277:9 291:22 leave 172:22 leaving 247:3 lets 186:7196:23 242:13 294:23 296:9 legal 182:17,20,21 183:7 legally 190:5 lenders 266:2 let 171:7 207:24 213:16 238:20 304:12 319:24 321:16 letter 182:13 184:23 185:2,3,7,9 204:8,9 204:12,18 208:7 209:9 274:8,8 278:23 281:2,4 297:18 298:1 299:19 300:2,4,6,9 301:4 303:1,5,9,11 304:1305:19, 306:5 309:23 315:6,14 319:22 320:1,4,6,6,7,8 322:18 letters 260:2,10,18 260:23 265:24 306:8 320:5,6 let's 169:23,23,25 185:3 202:23 213:13 221:19 222:9 225:17,17,18 242:18 243:19 245:15 267:1 272:22 283:8 315:5,20 316:18 322:1 level 178:24192:18 258:21 294:5 308:5 Liability 165:9,10,11 166:9,10,11 lieu 323:3 lifestyle 199:21 like 180:14 188:15 189:15 190:25 199:11 200:8 208:6 211:4 213:20,21218:3 230:18,18,19 238:8 239:24 242:5,5- 250:8 260:5 263:15 266:15 289:13 299:14 300:12 312:3 314:2 316:12 320:5 liked 237:13 318:10 likely 189:8 212:18 limit 190:13 Limited 165:9,10,11 166:9,10,11 Linda 170:15 243:15 line 168:21228:14 271:9 284:17 lined 260:7 Linscott 289:13,15 list 265:4 279:20,23 listed 181:19,21 289:13 listened 200:25 lists 186:9 litigation 176:22 177:23 209:4 215:3 217:7 219:2 219:5,7 220:23 221:3 228:17 269:7,8 271:1,4 287:13 298:5 little 171:18192:22 198:21 208:19 210:24 211:6 212:23 218:22 263:15 LLC 193:23 246:11 246:20 287:18,22 LLP 167:14 lobbyists 207:11,13 local 228:8 located 166:24 239:13 location 240:20 247:4 locations 203:19 log 298:7,20 long 172:22 189:21 192:15 193:1,3 200:21219:22 232:8 249:10 259:14 267:6,10 272:1294:21 296:15 299:1,4 longer 176:7,16 210:18 long-term 246:22 look 171:17 208:6 214:17 221:19 222:9 224:21 225:17,17,18 233:20 235:7 238:20 240:8 242:19 243:1,19 245:15 251:9 253:22 278:21 280:23 281:1,15,16 284:12 285:6,24 292:14 293:3 296:20 299:3,18 301:3 302:22 303:12,17 305:10 r 306:2,3 308:15 310:13 315:5 looked 204:20; 225:19 283:22 285:9,11 looking 183:17 210:8 218:4 231:3 263:8 291:23 looks 211:4 320:5 loosely 212:2 Loren 204:13,15 Los 166:25-167:5,11 167:16169:2 losing 314:25 lot 213:25 248:25 - 249:5 260:7 277:12 295:7 Lowe's 218:14 Lynn 257:13 L.S 243:15 Macaroni 193:23 279:21 Macerich 179:23 184:24187:8, 204:3,18 205:4,4 205:17 206:5 233:11,11,24 234:5 234:14,24 235:1,3 254:21255:22 261:7 297:22,24. 7ILIO SIB ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 333 307:9 Macerich's 254:23 Mackler 270:2,19,20 made 200:18 201:13 201:20 202:1 204:1,25 206:10,13 209:20 230:2 239:25 243:21 275:21 290:4 315:19,20 319:18 Madera 172:5 175:8 175:14,16 magazines 203:19 mail 182:13 mailed 182:19 main 207:22 242:4 268:19 maintaining 322:16 maintenance 257:5 major 217:4 218:6 255:18,20 make 179:1,12191:3 195:24197:3,18 202:16 221:17 224:10,13 225:6- 226:10,25 236:24. 247:23,24 252:16 261:22 277:18 281:22 286:19 . 311:25 312:2 315:17 323:4,23 makes 257:14 296:14 makeup 258:8 making 191:23 196:22 245:7 311:23 mall 196:24 242:6 278:19 manager 196:17 207:23,23 217:17 managing 217:4 mandated 182:15 mandatory 182:24 manner 271:18 300:7 many 199:18 277:5 295:14,23 296:5 299:6 304:22 308:1,3 map 176:8,11,17 209:13,17 211:20 214:12,25 March 280:5 289:22 290:5,10,23 mark 238:19 240:8 267:4 270:3 316:4 316:6 marked 168:9 208:7 238:23 275:16 278:22 285:12 296:21310:14 317:3 market 184:11 218:5 marketing 241:11 278:7 marketplace 260:8 Mark's 285:3 Marston 257:9,10 material 197:22 242:16,16 314:19 314:22 materials 239:9 241:12 242:7,9 matter 195:16,18 202:9 217:7 221:14 248:14 258:11 269:14 280:10,19 291:5 323:5 may 178:14 193:5 200:22,22,23 201:13 211:21 213:18,18,19,20,20 213:21,22 216:20 218:11,21 253:25 258:17 281:2,4 305:13 308:19 309:15,16,23 310:14,17 311:6 312:9 313:4 314:16 317:9 320:1,4,5,5,6,7,7 320:11 maybe 191:25,25 218:20 223:2,3,9 223:14,15 232:9 242:4 266:16 278:6 294:12 295:2,11,13 296:3 296:8,9,24 308:3 Mayor 243:2 McDonald's 192:14 312:5 McGrath 172:4 mean 170:13 172:3 188:9 189:6 203:9 207:8 208:23 209:5 217:3 230:8 234:8 235:16- 246:15 248:19 250:8 253:13 254:12 277:3 285:9 291:14,21 303:4 306:17 307:14 317:14 meaning 188:19 211:6 255:13 . means 188:8,10,13 - 246:17,25 289:25 306:20 meant 212:5 283:4 284:12 mechanism 272:5,8 meet 192:13 228:17 265:10 269:4,6,20 269:22,24 273:16 274:7,9 280:17 meeting 185:24 186:1 222:25 223:2,12,16 227:13 228:13 229:3,8,11 229:24 230:3 232:4,8,10,12 233:1 263:23 266:21 267:6 268:20,25 269:3,11 270:10,25 271:19 271:23 273:1,4,12 273:18,20,23 275:8 275:10,13,17 280:14 288:12 295:6 312:23 316:3 321:18 meetings 185:22 186:4 218:8,8,9,9 218:21 227:23 . 228:10 250:10 266:18 288:9,10 289:4 295:7,11,12 295:13,13 296:6 300:19 meets 193:4,5 Melanie 294:10,22 296:5,6 Melissa 278:24 member 174:4 members 223:4 243:3 249:22 memo 170:18 171:11 171:15,18 172:23 173:14 174:3,3 175:13 176:5,5,18 184:3,18 185:18 186:16,21 199:9,10 208:1 222:9 223:19,23 224:3,9 224:14,17 225:2,10 226:2,19,23 228:16 243:3,5,22,23 265:20 271:12,19 292:12,11310:6,7 310:14 311:1 314:20 memorandum 185:3 216:24 221:23 222:5 243:20 memory 220:5 279:19 memos 175:17 250:25 memo's 186:17 mention 271:3 273:25 mentioned 194:4 205:8,9 274:2,3 275:2 280:10 317:16 mentioning 228:12 merely 249:19 merged 244:6 Mervyn's 253:1,8,10 253:12,13,16 279:21 282:6,7,25 286:3,15 290:17 met 207:13 230:25 231:8,12,14 266:1 288:16 mid -paragraph 317:2 might 173:15 192:12 198:1,11 206:17 209:24 210:24 214:9 216:13 235:5 249:19 253:2 258:13 262:15 279:23 280:12 288:12 289:9 319:21,24 million 205:9,10,19 206:7 256:20 mind 201:4 274:19 297:7 mindful 176:22 minds 236:20 mine 172:18 minute 286:16 minutes 238:16 273:5 mischaracterization 216:12 misleading 173:20 misrepresentation 308:22 missed 172:18 misunderstand 291:18 mix 200:9 252:15 258:13,15,25 259:3 259:10 268:21,24 mixing 210:23 moment 181:24 200:2 Monday 267:12,13 money 238:2 262:11 monitor 217:13 monitoring 217:19 Montgomery 188:17 193:22 204:10,12 204:19 232:1 253:1 254:12 256:1 268:23 month 262:18 295:3 299:7 month -to -month 280:8 more 178:23 207:25 209:23 212:18 214:15 218:20122 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON Page 334 218:22 226:17,17 226:18 228:8 283:4,5 294:12 295:7 296:3,22,24 300:11 314:1 323:15 morgan 167:14 281:3 most 183:13 184:16 188:3 252:8 258:17 260:3 266:10 310:22 314:8 mostly 254:20 272:4 272:22 move 207:24.215:12 236:3 237:5 248:24 302:12,15 moved 196:2Z. 287:11 moving 247:4 254:19 258:22 292:2 much 188:17 213:16 223:20 268:2 274:23 296:22 323:15 Mulligan 321:21 322:5 Murray 224:4 243:9 267:3 272:25 306:4 307:16 myself 223:20 260:5 267:4 301:23 322:18 name 193:22 227:22 228:7 242:2 257:23 267:2 275:3 287:24 288:11292:19 named 172:4 279:24 natural314:4 nature 249:5 250:7 284:14 291:19 294:7 nature-representa... 250:11 necessarily 182:11 184:13 189:6 202:5 214:24 218:2 226:1237:8 245:25 253:13 254:5 256:4,11,23 259:2,5 260:24 261:9 262:12 266:7 288:11 295:12,20 305:16 319:12 necessary 177:20 178:3 185:15,17 194:8 215:12 254:18 264:4 need 174:22 183:11 214:11 253:25 256:20 261:13 268:8,10 301:2 needed 177:14,15 212:22 215:5 261:22 287:10 needs 294:9 negotiate 214:22 235:25 246:10 263:10 321:3 negotiated 235:21 236:8 262:16 negotiating 211:14 212:17 261:15 264:18 negotiation 211:11 negotiations 207:18 235:11236:25 237:18 263:18 275:14 Nessy 270:3,22 never 180:9 211:12 220:22 242:15 270:23 287:9 new 232:1,1 292:2 newest 253:14,15 next 172:19 235:7 241:2 243:19 245:15 254:14 268:25 269:3 289:11 297:10 321:13 Noble 193:25 279:21 none 168:17 188:5 209:21 258:3 278:20 non-sensical 190:6 normal 180:5 184:12 261:2 311:6 normally 186:4,5 260:19 300:6 north 190:14 note 304:4 notebook 242:23 nothing 172:10 213:22 214:4,8 220:7,8 264:25 291:17 notice 181:5,14,24 182:20,20 183:9 253:12 262:24 263:5 280:8 noticed 182:12 253:10 notices 181:18 notification 182:21 183:4 notified 215:4,23 November 295:23 nuances 236:22 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.01W- BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON number 185:25 213:15 228:10 239:16 240:1 241:24 242:Z 249:15 280:1 289:22 numbering 319:14 320:19 numbers 187:13 numerous 234:16 object 308:21 Objection 178:6 189:2 191:24 194:20 201:3 216:11 309:11 obligation 257:2 observation 249:4 obtaining 322:17 occasion 280:20 occasionally 186:5 218:8 occupancy 206:18 occupied 277:24 occur 185:22194:9 195:4 255:15 259:20 282:21 312:8 occurred 185:22 195:21 229:11 312:24 occurrences 195:4 occurring 184:14 248:15 277:16 occurs196:1 off 177:8,10 273:15 277:9 321:19 offended 274:19 offhand 170:22 171:9 172:12 181:21 184:2 201:22 204:24 208:16 210:13 215:17 216:6 242:3 262:4 277:19 304:11 office 202:24 203:8,9 203:9,10 223:21 295:2,2,4,11,14,1& 303:17 307:17- 308:9 322:19,- 323:24 offices 166:23 205:3 295:1 officials 234:4. 236:23 often _ 179:25 183:20 184:7 192:20 218:22 246:6 248:22 249:1 276:2 277:14 294:25 295:4 314:2,12 oh 172:21 173:4,20 231:13,16 232:9 267:7 272:1 273:4 277:9 295:11,18 old 323:21 once 181:7 211:25 218:20,22 295:20 one 172:11 174:23 174:24 176:12 178:2 179:24 185:5,22186:2_ 187:14188:4 189:1 191:13 192:20195:3 198:5,14 199:21 200:2,4,5 204:2 206:20 207:25 213:13 218:6 222:11,21224:17 227:4 230:2 232:24 236:15,18 240:7,9 243:21 248:2 240:22 250:4 251:18 253:4,14 258:5 269:18 276:14 277:5,24 278:1 279:22 280:11 281:9,17 282:13 286:11,12 289:11 289:16 292:19 293:1 294:17 296:7,8 298:10 303:25 307:23 313:24 315:1,15,15 315:16 316:12 319:23 ones 276:10 279:19 298:19 ongoing 211:11 only 182:17,21 183:10 192:15 196:21206:16,23 212:1215:8 236:20 255:5,5 256:20 267:22 274:9 283:22 298:18 301:18 304:24 305:2 313:6 317:23 OPA 212:6 213:1 214:13,23 236:16 237:12,18 238:7 259:1,4,11,18 260:22 261:13,15 261:20 262:10,18 262:20 263:6,20 265:14 283:9 open-ended 256:17 operate 245:1 opinion 221:15 252:25 253:4 opportunities 272:10 278:7 opportunity 231:25 236:3 250:23 256:18 opposed 237:8 opted 209:1 option 181:8 options 218:5 253:7 orange 165:2 166:2 249:5 order 177:1 192:21 193:24 215:10 219:14 221:9 253:23 323:20 ordinance 244:3,5 245:3 289:22 ordinances 245:7,9 organization 252:6 organize 245:1 original 255:21 322:17 323:3,3 originally 216:2 217:6 originals 323:8 originated 215:8 216:3 other 172`11 174:11 176:14178:6,23 180:24181:23 186:12 191:13 192:9 193:6 195:6 196:12,15,23 199:10,22 202:20 203:14,19 204:2,16 204:18 206:13 207:24 209:19 211:21 214:2,4,8 214:19 219:8 224:6 225:21 227:1 231:9 233:22 236:17 239:9 240:23 242:7 243:21 248:3,22 249:1 250:4 251:18 252:14,21253:4 257:22 258:6• 259:13 265:3 267:9 268:20 274:1 276:14 278:3,7 279:12 280:12 286:25 287:4 292:11,25 293:1297:1,21 298:21299:16 307:20,24 308:8 309:19,19 311:20 311:21 313:13 315:2 317:25 others 216:14 227:6 232:7 238:6 308:1 otherwise 215:4 216:14 ourself 312:1 out 171:13 177:22 180:13,16181:18 183:15 191:14 195:1 197:22,23 202:2 203:12 209:2 216:17 219:13 227:6 230:21239:7,15 241:3,9 242:1 247:25 249:18 253:16 255:13 275:9 279:18,20 294:25 299:24 301:2 303:1,7,15 303:18,21,23 315:14 319:9 outlined 315:25 over 175:6185:17,20 193:18 227:19 228:11230:18 231:13 240:19,20 240:22 250:4,6 280:21,22 283:2 291:6 overall 252:15 override 237:9 overriding 178:14 overseas 295:10 oversees 196:17 oversight 254:11,17 overviews 218:11 own 183:21 190:6,8 190:9,14 209:3 249:14 262:14 277:23 292:7 owner 181:7191:1 193:12,14 207:19 211:7,10,15 212:18 213:14,18 214:7 236:1,8 246:10,18 247:5 264:14: 265:11,18 272:24 273:1,13 279:11,16 281:5,13 294:16 312:12 315:18 318.7,8 319:8 owners 182:11,13 188:11 189:7,8,13 189:20192:2 193:19194:21 227:2 249:18 277:25 278:3 ownership 207:3 237:15 251:16 255:1 owns 192:2 277:22 287:23 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 335 o'clock 297:3,5 P 212:8 213:1 package 319:10 320:2 321:8 page 168:2,8,21 171:18,22 175:6 186:13 224:21 235:7 243:1,19 247:7 293:4 306:3 310:6 317:2 pages165:10 222:13 245:22 299:6 319:15,17,19 320:16,17 paid 242:10 paper 182:20 183:24 184:1,3,6 paragraph 235:8 251:13 253:22 263:8 293:14 305:18 parameters 235:12 237A 282:22 pardon 173:8 1796 227:15 231:19 267:20 271:2 284:18 286:13 paren 175:11 parentheses 171:19 Park 192:15 312:5 part 178:4195:20 199:1 237:17 241:22 245:13,15 282:13 283:9,9 312:6 313:17 314:15 317:20 319:15 320:11 participant 206:1 263:25 264:2 participate 181:8 235:5 250:23 254:22 270:10 participating 199:12 232:2 participation 207:19 211:10,15 212:19 213:14,18 214:7 236:1,8 246:10 264:14 265:12,18 272:25 273:1,14 279:11,16 281:13 312:12 313:17 315:18 318:9 particular 210:5 214:3 270:21 276:7,17 286:12 particularly 209:4 271:24 parties 230:6 278:3 parts 192:10 party 177:23 181:6 220:12 230:7 270:4 323:13 passed 239:7 past 203:18 235:19 236:6 269:13 277:5 Paul 241:24 307:25 308:5,7 Paul's 227:21 paused 222:1 pay 257:2 paying 276:8 penalty 290:15 322:21 pending 217:7 287:13 Penney 253:2 Penney's 255:21 people 182:19 183:1 192:11 193:20 203:23 217:25 227:19,24 228:6,6 229:17 230:18 232:5 234:24 239:10 249:7 250:8,22 252:4 255:2 258:20 260:5 272:2 273:2 274:24,25 288:2 294:17 percent 250:12 251:1 251:6,7 259:15 percentage 250:24 perform 227:7 performns 265:6 performing 207:7 perhaps 183:10 period 262:25 263:3 263:4,5,10,12,19 264:16,17 299:15 perjury 290:15 322:22 permit 190:17,19,21 190:23 191:4,8,20 194:2 314:11 permits 188:25 189:2,3,6,13,16,17 189:20190:3,7 191:23 192:2,4,6,9 192:12,18 193:11 193:18 194:8 permitted 206:19 permitting 192:5 person 179:12 181:2 183:13 184:16 186:20 188:3 207:16 229:21 232:25 252:8 257:22 266:10 272:3 275:21 personal 221:14 249:14 251:3 personally 248:5 249:21 252:5 persons 199:2 219:8 perspective 187:7,25 207:20 233:20 235:2,3 237:8 249:20 257:3 298:5 314:7,10,14 314:15 pertaining 197:11 205:3 257:17,20 258:2 Petition 229:4,24 phone 215:4 241:24 280:21,22 293:11 phonetic 270:3 photocopy 239:25 physical 266:8 pick 293:11 Pickel 267:4 piece 183:23 184:1,3 184:6 198:11 277:22 place 195:14 199:13 212:22 213:2 214:1,12,18,20 219:23 232:10 235:12 237:2,11,14 238:10 270:17,25 271:4 279:23 places 203:19 239:16 239:18 280:12 placesilocations 203:14 plaintiff 165:7 166:7 166:20 167:2 169:7 Plaintiff's 168:9 238:23 285:12 317:3 planner 276:9 312:21 planning 179:4 180:21 184:4,8 185:4,14,16 186:9 187:24 207:21,21 208:9,13 210:13,15 211:19 212:21 221:23 222:20,23 222:25 223:4,8,12 223:16 224:1 226:21 227:4 228:15 235:9,18,20 235:23 236:2,4,7,7 236:11,12,20 237:4 237:6,7,9 245:11 273:7 276:1,9,13 277:14,25 278:2 283:4,15 286:20 288:10 290:2 292:6,10,17,22 301:17,25 310:10 310:12,24 314:3,5 314:6,10,13 plans 179:25 189:13 192:1,13,16 197:24 228:13 240:25 241:4 253:11 264:2 265:15 266:4,7 290:24 293:1 297:21 298:1 301:21 302:10 311:23 play 250:16 played 308:23,25 players 268:22 plaza 197:17 pleasant 170:3 please 171:7 175:20 176:5,7 213:10 224:21235:7 240:8 242:18,19 296:18 299:18 302:1 304:16 305:21 308:15 pleasure 267:23,25 268:2 plenty 287:3 plus 21-8:8 point 187:24 188:7 192:3 194:12 195:9 208:20 216:19 220:4 235:25 249:18 250:19 252:13,16 254:8,21 259:13 260:17 265:6 291:24 294:23 313:3,6 pointed 239:15 points 292:22 policy 306:11,12 polite 300:6 poll 248:4 population 251:1,8 portfolio 232:25 portion 319:19 portions 210:16 possession 199:15 200:2 290:20 301:19 possibility 317:25 possible 230:20,21 252:16 potential 240:23 272:4 307:11 312:10 potentially 205:23 238:5 power 266:12 precise 258:23 precisely 288:17 precluded 216:20 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON precludes 261:9 premature 195.11 195:12 premises 197:14 290:25 preparation 171:14 180:4 188:11 282:8 prepare 223:6,23 275:19 285:16,18 285:21 300:2 309:21 prepared 183:3 198:12,16 221:23 223:7 225:19 239:5245:22 246 3,5,6 275:20 275:24 277:17 287:18 303:20,22 315:12 316:23 prepares4,86'3 present 232:4,7 248:14, 264:14 266:25 270:12,15 270:16 272:11,14 presented 200:19 262:9 264:13 preserve 176:25 president 228:7 274:5 pretty 223:20 274:23 294:3 315:22 previous 175:21 181:11 185:10 213:11 228:21 229:15 231:6 300:9 302:2,6 304:17 309:9 318:13,22 previously 204:3 208:7 275:16 278:22 296:21 310:14 pre -leasing 259:16 primarily 217:17 227:17,20 primary 266:2 principal 266:2 289:7 prior 173:6 176:9,20 185:9 200:23 217:22 218:16 219:1,8 228:17 229:3,24 234:13 237:11 258:25 259:3,10 262:10 265:13 302:4 305:1 312:25 privileged 265:4 298:7,20 . probably 170:1 182:12 185:21 Page 336 195:2,3 200:22 203:4 205:25 218:9,19,22 225:11 249:15 263:17,22 265:22,24,25 270:16,17 272:9 276:15 277:9 283:16 287:22 288:8 289:4 294:12 295:10,18 295:22 296:2 308:3 312:16,19 313:6 315:22 problem 235:20 241:17 problems 178:16 proceed 176:21 177:17 182:22 191:15 194:7 209:3 210:14 216:22 proceedings 323:5 process 180:17,23 181:9 183:3,5,17 188:14189:21 192:5 193:6 209:2 212:6 213:23 227:6,11 236:17 250:22,23 283:15 284:5 285:10 302:23 312:22 313:16 processed 182:15 processes 192:10 236:15 processing 183:21 207:21 266:7 290:11 produce 205:5 produced 199:24 205:6,7 Professional 166:21 program 276:3 progress 264:18 275:13 project 174:10 182:22 183:25 - 185:22,24 186:1,4 191:16 194:12 196:17 201:7 205:24 207:23,23 217:17,17,24,25 218:9,13,14 228:12 234:22 235:6,23 236:4 237:5 241:22 248:12 257:15 258:22 259:14 268:20 272:6,16,18 276:14 284:11,17 288:9 289:17 306:15.17 306:18 307:4,8,13 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, .07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON projects 178:23- - 197:10199:13. 217:5 218:& 238:13 241:11'. 242:4 258:17 294:5 296:7 307:2, 307:6 promoted 203:20 promoting 202:22 203:16 promotional 199:23 prompted 300:4 proper 271:18 properties 165:10 166:10189:11 287:20 311:19, property 181:7 182:10,13 188:11 189:7,7,9,12,19 190:7,8,24,25 191:1 192:2,3 193:12,14,19 194:21 198:11 206:11 211:6 212:7 227:2 233:24 234:5,14 246:19 247:5 248:11,20 249:4,6 249:18 277:22,25 278:2 283:21 287:18 311:13 312:11 proposal 254:23 261:7,18 262:6 281:7 283:6,10,19, 284:23 293:21 319:9,13,16,20,24- 320:11,14,18,20,2,3 320:25 proposals 211:11 212:14 213:14. 214:2 246:18 276:11 281:6- 294:16 311:10 312:10,13 314,17 317:25 318:7,9'- 319:8 propose,322:15 propose&192:n 213:21218:147 - 227:3 254:22 258:4 268:22-: . 272:8 284:15 311:17` proposes 192:3 proposing 189:21 203:3 210:14 234:24 283:24 319:7 provide 192:21 200:6 231:4 261:21,25 263:1 264:1265:5 269:1 298:1,10 299:4 302:20 311:5 provided 204:22 212:12 240:18 241:6 242:15,16 247:18 258:1 264:7,9,11,19,25 265:3,3,9,19 283:17 299:7 304:14,23,24 305:3 305:6 308:19 309:14,20,23 320:10 public 180:21 181:2 181:8,17 182,12,18 188:14,15 206:16 249:15 250:16,17 . 250:22 260:5 263:23,24 272:6,9 273:16 277:15 299:14 300:10,13 300:19 301:1 304:6,6 305:6,7,8 305:20,21 pull 189:13,16,20 190:7,17,19,21 191:4,7,20192:11 193:11,17 194:2 209:1 pulled 192:2 pulling 189:6 190:2 191:22 192:9 pulls 188:25189:17 190:23 purchase 233:24 234:5,13 purchasers 235:2,4 pure 253:3 purely 253:6 291:15 291:21 purpose 315:13 purposes 323:2 pursuant 212:7 pursue 220:22 221:3 pursuit 211:16 purview 255:9 256:12 31-2:7 put 212:22 240:1 256:20 261:8 262:24 263:17 --282:13,19,25 290:17 291:3 p.m 166:22169:1 324:7 qualifications 304:4 321:2 quality 283:23 284:11,14 319:6 quantify 228:14 quarterly 247:15,16 question 173:22,24 175:19,20,21 1.78:9 178:10 179:3,19,20 184:5 187:3 189:15,25,25190:5 190:6 195:10 205:22 207:25 210:21 213:4,10,11 214:11 216:5 222:24 223:1 228:18,19,21,24 231:1,5,6 241:2 249:16 250:2,17,18 250:20 252:22 260:14 261:15 290:1 297:12 302:1,2 304:15,16_ 304:17 309:2,5,6,8 309:9 311:11 314:21,22 318:13 318:16,21,22,24 323:15 questioned 316:7 questioning 271:10 296:23 questions 170:7,19 199:4,7 222:2,21 223:8,15,17 224:1 226:21 249:23 321:12 quick 263:15 quite 179:25 183:20 184:7 192:20 234:24 246:6 249:1 258:18 276:2 277:14 314:2,12 quo 213:17 quote 211:9,13,16 r 167:9 211:6,9,14 212:8,23,25 247:19 RAA 246:7,8 247:19 247:21 263:8 275:17 276:21 317:17 RAAs 250:25 Rabe 257:9,16 267:3 273:14 raised 223:8 226:21 257:1,3 range 205:12 206:7 Ray 225:10 232:5 243:5 270:18 277:1 294:13,20,20 294:25 296:14 316:24 raze 291:8 razed 291:15 RCA 246:7 RCAs 246:5 277:13 reach 213:20 read 175:20,21 176:5 181:10,11 213:10 213:11 228:19,21 231:5,6 294:18,21 302:1,2,4,6 304:16 304:17 309:9 316:1318:12,13,22 ready 295:8 real 206:10 228:6,8 274:5 realize 217:3 really 181:8182:17 184:6196:21 197:18 202:16 203:4 206:15 214:3 218:19 228:8 252:24 254:25 255:1 256:19 259:12 268:6 270:4 278:8 294:13,13,14 298:20 307:5,10 REAs 255:4,8,17,18 255:25 256:9,13 reason 192:20 233:9 279:12 297:25 reasonable 263:12 263:13 323:5 reasons 311:20,21 Rebecca 257:24,25 267:3 rebuild 214:24,24 recalled 204:9� receipt 322:20 receive 247:12,13,15 279:6,10,16 292:4 . 297:17 300:7 301:5 310:17 received 208:9 216:10 242:12 247:10 274:4,8 286:7,7 292:9 293:10 297:21 318:1319:23 320:14 reception 314:3 receptive 314:3 recess 238:17 316:17 reciprocal 254:20,24 255:4 recognize 170:24 171:19,24175:2 180:7 221:20 239:2 245:17 278:22 280:23 281:9,11285:8 297:15 303:12 308:16,18 315.6 recognized 289:9 recollect 228:3 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 337 recollection 171:12 197:16 215:8 223:14 227:4 277:9 283:2 286:20 recommend 283:21 321:7 recommendation 263:9 273:6 recommended 246:9 318:2 320:23 recommending 188:16 reconsideration 196:7,9 273:3 reconsiderations 196:12 reconsidered 195:23 record 208:7 305:20 305:21 316:18,25 321:19,20 records 299:14 300:13,20 301:1 304:6,6,25 305:7,8 redevelop 211:7 redeveloped 212:23 214:15 redeveloper 212:1 reduce 250:9 refer 240:13,13 254:6 283:3 286:21 reference 172:9 205:16 288:18 317:15 referrals 196:22 280:12 referred 223:1 244:1 246:18 254:3 281:12 282:4,6 287:17 290:12 316:13 320:12,20 referring 187:12 198:14 226:1,13,13 226:14 239:6 247:8 254:13 255:1287:22 . 317:12 refers 210:9 refuse 280:17 regard 197:19 204:10 252:25 268:4,5 regarding 175:17 176:6 204:25 294:2 313:22 regards 183:2 Registered 166:21 regular 217:14 regularity 249:3 regularly 247:15 regulations 245:4 rehabilitate 264:4 rehabilitated 251:14 reinforcing 236:2 reiterated 274:4 relate 209:21 related 187:14 204:21 210:18 212:9,17 214:10 307:2 319:5 relating 201:21 312:7 relationship 226:2 230:6,10,16,22,25 237:3 255:6 298:3 306:20 relationships 255:12 relative 183:24 197:2 199:3,6,7 234:19 237:18 256:8 258:6 293:14 relatively 253:14 relevance 189:2,3 relied 227:1 299:3 relieved 322:15 relocated 287:10 relocation 287:6 291:3 remain 286:3 290:17 remaining 253:13,14 253:16 remains 261:4 remedies 217:9 remember 184:23 201:1 206:9 215:9 216:18 219:12 223:13 267:2 275:2 279:18 280:4 288:10 remodel 191:21 remodeling 192:4 remove 194:25 removed 208:14 render 265:17 rendering 198:7 203:2 242:5 renderings 197:9,11 284:2 repeat 175:19 178:10187:2 228:18 304:15 309:8 315:3 317:19 repeated 304:6 rephrase 318:19 replace 195:15,19 report 199:11 247:7 273:15,19 294:21 310:10 315:25 316:2 reporter 166:21,21 169:8 175:22 181:12 213:12 228:22 231:7 238:11,15,18,25 263:2 285:14 302:3,7 304:18 309:10 317:5 318:14,23 322:15 reporter's 323:24 reports 250:25 258:1 310:10,11 reposition 264:4 repositioned 251:14 representations 290:4 represented 287:8 request 168:12 212:14 213:14 216:1 220:13 229:11 241:8 245:16,23 246:18 261:18 262:6 276:10 277:7,8 279:3,9 281:5,11 293:21 297:20 299:10,12,14 301:2 305:3,8,9 315:21 316:22 318:7,8 319:8 requested 168:16 175:22 181:12 213:12 220:17 228:22 231:7 261:18 262:3 279:12 280:14 302:3,7 304:18 308:23 309:10 318:14,23 requests 204:25 212:7 214:2 276:2 279:17 281:13 294:18 298:4 300:10,13 301:1 305:21 323:5 require 213:24 required 180:1,3,4 244:18 264:1 requirement- 182:18 183:1,8 212:21 318:25 requirements 182:21 212:24 requires 191:12 196:1 researching 302:24 reserve 176:23 residents 250:12 269:18 resolution 232:12 275:9,11 resolutions 249:2 resolve 255:10 resource 242:9 respect 186:21 194:1 211:24 212:3 237:16 242:12 256:5 280:5 307:19 310:7 317:20 322:16 respective 277:7 respond 222:22 243:3,5 269:9 299:1 300:6,25 301:7,12,18 303:11 304:10 305:23 responded 204:24 298:5 responding 227:5 251:10 314:20 response 170:22 199:3 209:4 212:1 212:14 215:15 216:9 223:7,11 226:21 281:5,13 286:18 292:21 293:21 298:1,11 299:5 302:11 305:3 306:7 309:21 311:1 318:6,8 320:14 responses 212:8 315:18 319:1 responsibilities 245:13 responsible 190:2 200:9 294:8 306:14 responsive 301:16 302:9,12 304:14 305:19,21 319:8 Restaurants 286:23 restrain 220:8 restraining 177:1 215:10 219:14 221:9 restroom 316:15,16 result 250:9 273:19 resulted 216:24 retail 165:10 166:10 240:17 251:15,19 253:19 257:15 258:17 287:3 retailers 201:17,19 retailing 214:16 retained 306:25 revenue 247:9 revenues 206:16 review 192:17 200:11 209:14,19 210:1,7,16 211:21 222:4 224:19 235:22 303:15 310:9 311:16,17 312:4,7 314:10,15 322:21 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON reviewed 224:9 245:25 283:19 286:10,12 292:24 294:19 reviewing 279:15 311:23 313:24' 315:17 revitalize 253:23 re -author 185:18 re -tenant 214:8,19 re -tenanting 214:5 RFPs 212:1 RFQ 284:12 rid 254:12 right 174:16 177:4 180:7186:15 191:10,11,14,17,19 191:20,21 193:17 193:17 194:6 196:19 200:6- 202:11 203:13 211:17 212:4 216:15 230:23 240:3 243:2 252:23 259:21 260:16 263:14 270:7 274:21 281:23 283:25 284:16 287:6 288:15 291:3,13 293:3 312:11 319:4 320:12 322:12 rights 176:24,25 247:5 255:8 291:24 rights -oriented 248:21249:6 rising 177:22 role 193:9,9 196:21 259:25 Roman's 286:23 room 287:4 288:11 289:8,9 rough 297:11 row 308:23 running 314:1 R-a-b-e 257:11 Safety 244:18 245:2 sales 206:12 247:9 247:10 same 183:19185:25 187:12,22,23 188:17 194:1 202:23 203:2,11 206:24 218:13 240:18 248:11 258:7 274:18 282:7 289:12 308:5 319:25 Page 338 322:19 sat 288:9 satisfied 262:8 saved 250:13,20 251:2 saw 171:5 201:1 241:14,16 305:11 Sax 252:23 253:5 Saybrook 257:22 272:3 saying 184:6 220:24 236:15 265:20 274:9 275:7 Saylor 166:20 says 171:19 175:7 176:5 186:8,8 188:15 224:22 230:5 238:21 244:15 246:3 251:13 263:9 264:16 286:3,6 288:1 289:11,21 297:20 305:19 320:18 scape 278:5 SCE 193:21246:20 scenario 236:5 242:13 schedule 273:6,13 scheduled 295:5,7 scheduling 272:24 science 258:23 scope 182:24 184:9 201:7 284:14 311:7 Scott 175:7,11,14,17 176:2 207:20,22 208:8 306:13 307:14,20,22 308:6 308:8 screwing 315:1 searching 303:9 second 224:21 247:7 263:9,23 283:8 307:22 310:6 317:2 secretary 169:23 170:13 222:12 243:17 Section 245:2 sections 188:18 sector 181:2 SedAmerica 266:3 Sedway 257:13,13 see 169:23,23,25 175:7 185:3 202:23 207:24 208:2 214:15 216:8 224:25 239:12 250:8 267:1 272:22 279:1 281:17 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00= 3 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON' 282:16 285:254 286:2,4,22 289:23 297:23 304:7,8 310:13 315:21 319:15,24 320:8,'- seeing 305:14,25 seeking 215:10 seemed 263:12,13 seems 263:15 seen 180:9186:19 191:9 208:10 209:8 211:3 225:9 240:24 247:9 286:8 305:16 Seidel 257:24,25,25 267:4 select 213:17 261:22 314:17 317:21 selected 211:25 214:22 262:9 263:25 304:9 315:24 321:2,7 selecting 236:16 312:22 313:18,19 selection 213:1321:8 sell 205:18 selling 233:20 send 184:22190:18 224:10 260:19 263:5 284:22,23 300:4 303:1,6 sending 315:13 sense 198:7 203:4 235:4 sent175:13,17 182:19 204:10,12 208:13 225:10 243:2 247:16 260:18 279:18,20. 299:24 303:15,21 303:23 315:10 319:9 322:18 sentence 224:25 225:25 230:8 251:12 254:14- 263:9 305:24 317:1,1 separate 255:1;' 283:14.298:4',20- September 26317 2612Z23: � _ _ _ series 182-A4 : . served 233:1W, server 172:8 services 218:11- 277:15 session 223:11,15 _-298:18,21,22 304:25 305:4,7 sessions 222:3,21 set 178:11 193:2,4 236:11,12 244:25 272:17 321:20 setbacks 237:23 setting 236:3 seven 277:13 share 206:17 235:1 297:12 shared 235:3 sheet 175:7 294:20 shifted 291:16 Shipow 322:19 shopping 255:17 259:22 260:1 shops 196:24 279:22 Shorthand 166:20 169:8 show 197:18,24" . 239:16 240:25 250:10 253:12 275:15 281:8 showed 185:25 198:5 showing 198:6 241:3 shown 197:14 228:13 shows 198:11203:2 240:16 shut 227:6 side 206:24 sides 238:22 sign 184:18,22,23 198:17,19,23' 199:1 241:23 258:20 273:15 303:5 322:21 signage 278:6 signature 222:10 245:20 299:19,22 322:17 signed 204:11216:25 222:12 260:12 277:13 290:14 294:22 299:20 315:12 322:24,25-- signilcant 191:14 signs 260:10 - Silver 172:16173:13 186:17 232:6 243:5 270:18 271:12 277:1 294:1,25-295:25 316:24 similar 180:24' 230:24 simply 180:19 since 169:18,19 202:9 205:15 220:11252:15 254:24 261:14 295:15,18,23 single 212:19 singled 301:2 sir 173:22199:24' 205:6 sit 187:22 195:6 270:9,18 296:10 site 190:10,14 192:17 192:23 197:24 198:2,4,6,9,10 205:15,18 206:16 211:7.,14 214:17' 228:13 236:12, 240:14 241:4 242:6,14 249:18 254:17,24 259:15 262:14 265:23 283:23 284:10 287:5,11313:9 sites 184:11 196:23 259:13 260:25 311:18 312:7 sitting 242:24 situation 206:6 323:21 six 277:13 slightly 294:12 slip 292:12 slow 295:20 small 279.22 sold 233:13 solicitation 279:11 294:15 some 178:24180:23' 182:9191:12 195:4 196:23 207:24 211:16 213:24 216:21 222:2,21227:23 228:4,5 236:6,26 242:7 259:3 260:2 265:20 293:22 295:21304:8 307:20 somebody 195: 10- 291:12 someone 170:14• 173:18 185:13 191:2,15 193:1 195:4 214:7 217:12 246:1 288:12 314:9 something 182:12, 185:18195:5 214:8 248:8,23'. 249:17 250:15;21; 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HUNTINGTON 254:2 258:13,15,25 259:3,10 260:25 266:6 268:21,24 279:10 286:22 291:22,22 tenants 193:19,23 194:22 196:22,23 203:1 227:2 231:9 233:7 246:25 252:14,21 253:20 255:10,18 258:4,10 259:19,21 260:1,3 260:5,7,12,15,20 264:3,22 265:16,20 265:21,23 278:3 280:2,6,7,12,14,18 283:3,7 287:10 290:17 tenant -driven 265:25 tend 211:8 294:4 301:23,23 tension 314:4 tepper 167:9 173:20 174:24 177:2,6,9 178:6 179:15,20 186:25 189:2 190:5,11 201:3 210:21,23 213:4,7 216:11 218:17 219:17,20 221:11 221:25 222:5,7,17 231:2 239:23 240:5 244:13,16 259:7 263:3 267:13 274:18 281:18,21 293:7 296:22 297:1,6,10 297:13 302:12,15 305:12 308:21 309:1,6,11 314:23 314:24,25 316:9 321:14,24 322:3,7 322:11,13,18,22 323:4,7,12,15,19 323:22 324:1,5 Tepper's 169:25 322:20 terminate 263:6 termination 280:9 terminology 251:4 304:9 terms 213:20 216:7 234:25 245:6 296:22 testified 169:9,14 180:7,9 204:3 229:11,22 testimony 216:13 300:21305:2 text 176:8,11,17 183:22 209:13,18 Page 340 211:19 214:12 215:1 Thank 206:3 213:15 222:7 240:5 242:19 293:8 296:20 324:5 Thanks 240:4 theaters 240:22 their 181:8 184:24 192:13 194:25 198:25 208:14,18 208:21,23,23 212:8 222:21 224:24 225:24 226:4,11,16 232:1,2,24 233:12 233:18,19,20 234:17 236:10 237:6,8 240:25 242:2 247:3 249:3 249:19 255:11 263:4 266:2,6 268:21,24 273:2 277:6 280:6 283:10 284:20,21 287:7 291:24 293:20 314:15 318:6 319:25 321:1 themself 209:2 themselves 284:2 they'd 188:15 thing 170:5 173:21 183:19 185:25 202:6,8 212:2 218:13 240:18 258:7 274:18 281:18 286:25 289:12 298:18 320:18 things 177:5 184:12 199:22 211:19,21 213:15,17 228:13 230:18 235:6 239:24 251:10 263:22 265:3 280:11 295:9 299:16 301:19 304:24 307:20 312:7 320:1 think 170:22 171:13 183:18 184:23 185:3,21 186:8 187:11,11,19,23 188:7,10 195:12 198:25 199:1 200:5,8 202:6 203:1,3 207:20 208:4 214:16 216:13,17 221:5 222:3,11 223:1 226:3 227:21 228:23 229:9 bd JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. 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290:19 296:8 322:7 unusual 255:18 277:11,12 299:15 314:9 unwilling 269:19 upcoming 312:23 update 296:2 updated 265:5 273:2 updates 218:12' 228:12 updating 245:6- upgrade 255:2 upscale 252:1,11,19 usable 323:2' use 182:6195:1 205:16 206:19 211:5 251:4 257:12 268:13 292:12 295:6 313:12 314:11 316:15,16 used 172:5 205:10 272:7,15 277:24 278:1 323:8 users 287:4 312:6 using 182:10 272:16 usually 180:15189:8 233:2 255:20 262:12,13,20,21 269:6 294:21 2952 310:23 7ILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 341 utmost 217:3 vacation 295:8 value 256:13 variety 197:9 199:13 220:6 227:19 241:10 242:3 282:21307:2 various 201:16,18 211:18 217:8 239:9,15 268:22 285:10 290:21 294:8 300:18,19 Vegas 197:3 198:13 199:3 232:17 233:6,7 239:7,8 version 179:24 208:3 320:7 versus 209:6 211:8 217:21 very 184:3 213:15 218:3 245:5 248:20,22 249:6 258:9 262:8 320:20 ' via 228:1& vibrant 214:15 vice 228:7 274:5 vicinity 206:23 video 199:21 videotape 199:16 200:11,13,19,23 videotapes 199:18,19 199:20 view 187:22,23,23,25 200:23 211:15 312:1 viewed 179:11 187:19 200:24 vision 252:11 visit 233:7 voice 251:6 VOLUME 165:9 166:9 votes 247:25 vs 165:8166:8 walked 288:11 289:7 289:9 wall 242:4 Wallach 279:24 walls 191:3,19 Wal-Mart 218:14 want 188:12 189:24 190:17191:2 200:9,22 202:10 210:24 221:4,17 225:8 229:8 232:9 235:17 240:8 250:13 254:12 266:15 270:10 275:15 281:22 286:19 296:20 297:6,9 312:2 323:23 wanted 176:21 177:17 178:15 221:10 231:25 237:11 241:12 251:2 313:8 wants 191:2,7 192:4 194:2 270:14,16 273:9 Ward 193:22 204:12 204:19 Ward's 188:17 194:25 204:10 230:25 232:2,5 246:20 253:1 254:12,21 255:6 256:1 268:19,23 315:15 WAREHOUSE 165:5 166:5 wasn't 177:10 178:11,14 180:2 185:15 197:16 205:20 221:9 222:25 226:13 228:7 241:22 242:11 254:22 284:16,17,19 294:14,14 306:24 318:25 waterfront 218:13 272:8,13,16,16 watson 167:14 171:25 191:24 194:20 205:20 206:3 215:6 240:4 285:2 316:20 324:3,4 Watson's 322:19- way 172:11 188:9 195:6 204:2 206:9 206:13 208:12 242:1 243:21 248:2 250:4 251:18 253:4 258:6 264:20 274:14 277:3,4 281:1 website 202:25 203:5 203:6 websites 203:19 week 218:7,20,23 266:22 268:25 269:3 295:6,19,20 296:8,8 322:1,3,7 weekly 199:11 217:22,25 265:10 266:18 273:12 296:6 weeks 195:16,18 269:13 well 173:6,7 177:12 178:14 179:21 180:18 182:24 184:3 185:25 188:8 191:6,9 192:11 194:21 195:19,22 202:4,11 202:18,23 205:14 208:17 211:3 213:3 218:19 219:10 221:4 225:8,25 226:10 227:19,20 229:20 230:9,14 233:13 235:19 238:8 246:5,17,24 248:15 249:14,25 251:6 254:19 256:7,10,14 258:20 259:25 261:14,17 263:16 264:3,12,16 265:10 265:17,22 267:19 268:24,25 270:8 272:22 273:4 276:2,15 277:22 281:10 283:11,16 284:16,23 292:1,11 294:7 295:7 298:2 300:10 307:9 308:3 310:22 311:16,25 315:15 316:10 320:7 well -integrated 251:15 went 172:21.175:6 181:18 236:13 286:23 291:6 295:10 303:18 305:15 315:15,15 315:16,23 317:1 320:2 weren't 229:16 288:4 289:18 319:5 320:2 -- West 167:15 western 233:1 we'll 180:10,19 182:10,12,25 240:3 258:13 265:25 316:14 322:12 we're 178:23 183:9,9 189:8 190:11 193:12,16 199:12 201:19 213:16 217:4,7 239:24 248:14 251:10 256:20,25 258:11 258:12 264:8,10,12 264:17,17,18,23 276:15,16,19,20 278:2,5 286:19 297:4 313:24 318:18 322:10,11 323:21 we've 173:16 179:9 196:22 214:2 218:2 225:12 230:9 231:8 235:21 236:8 248:10 250:8 255:10,15 257:12 257:12 260:24 272:7 298:6 307:10 while 228:7 242:24 258:18 287:2 295:10 white 240:8 whitman 167:14 281:3 whole 260:6 wife 169:23 willing 269:22 willingness 249:3 Wilshire 166:24 167:4 wise 202:6,8 withdraw 311:11 withdrawal 209:11 209:12 withdrawing 208:14 208:21,23 226:7 withdrawn 211:1 withdrew 208:18 224:24 225:24 226:4,11,16 withheld 298:15 withhold 298:12 301:10 witness 167:8 168:20 169:6 172:3 175:23 177:4,10 178:7 179:21 187:2 189:5 190:9 190:13 191:25 194:21 201:6 205:22 210:22 213:5,8,13 215:7 216:13,14,15 218:19 219:18 221:13,25 222:2,6 228:23 231:3,8 238:12 239:25 244:17 263:4 267:14 281:23 297:4,8 302:4,13 304:19 305:14 315:3 316:12,15 318:15,24 321:15 321:17,25 323:11 323:13,16,23 324:2 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON witnesses 323:13 words 235:14 268:13 word-for-word 268:18 work 180:20 182:24 184*9 191:7 192:22 207:7 227:1 232:13 236:22 249:18 250:1 255:10,13 260:6 264:18 268:11,19 276:3 299:16 307:21 314:6,12 worked 280:6 298:2 working 178:24 217:17 254:21 258:11 264:8,10,12 283:18 289:17 307:10 313:18 315:21 works 277:15 307:1 307:5,16,18 workshops 182:9,14 182:25 278:2 wouldn't 177:1 178:15 195:12 202:10 217:15 234:2 259:15 260:19 266:14 289:8 294:4 305:16 313:9 314:19 write 226:19,23 284:3 writing 171:19; 180:23,25 182:1 185:18 257:16,19 264:25 266:5 writings 204:16 273:22 written 204:5,18 210:17 244:20 258:1 264:20 292:16,18,21,25 306:11 wrong 220:12 287:25 wrote 224:17 225:2 226:1292:13 303:8 X 256:21 yeah 178:1 187:5,18 197:21 201:5,11 210:4 215:7 229:6 229:20 234:1,7 252:3 253:18 259:24 260:13 Page 342 268:17 270:8 271:17 275:2 276:15 280:22 285:2 286:2,17 291:10 293:7 295:17 300:17 303:3 309:17 316:5,20,25 317:20 318:20 321:25 year 228:4 233:2,7 277:5 years 194:25 195:6 237:14 249:20,24 312:25,25 yesterday 266:23 268:16 269:14 271:20,23 Zany 193:24 Zelefsky 179:4 180:11 183:10 196:3,7 209:23 232:6 275:25 276:22 277:6 322:9,11 Zelefsky's 245:12 zone 182:5 183:16 zoning 176:8,8,11,11 176:17,17 183:21 189:17,19,22 193:7 195:16,20 209:12 209:13,17,17 211:19,20 212:23 214:11,12 215:1 236:18 245:3,9,11 283:6 Zurk 270:2 Z-e-1-e-f-s-k-y 196:8 $10 205:9,10 $20 205:19 206:6 $200,000 262:17 $80 256:20 OOCC06309165:8 166:8 00-01 209:13 00-02 209:13 00-04 209:14 210:11 00-13 209:15 210:1 1 165:12 166:12 320:6 1:30 267:11 269:6 10165:12 166:12 193:3,4 205:19 206:6 217:4 251:1 251:6,7 262:22 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 • 299:19 3083,3,4 312:25,25. loth 299:24 100 262:16,17 11th 322:10 11560166:21 12 168:11 217:4 285:6 290:12 293:3,5 301:4,20 302:10 305:13 12th 208:9 12:30 297:2 13 176:6 223:12 281:15,19 282:9,24 285:22 292:14 13th 292:20 137 168:10238:19 238:23 239:2,4,12 240:3 241:2,8,13 241:14,16 242:10 242:12,12 138168:11285:1,5,7 285:12,19 292:4 139168:12 316:19 316:22 317:3,17 320:24 14th 296:17 15 171:17,17,22 174:20175:2 176:10178:12,20 186:14 207:25 216:8 224:3 225:14,18 242:4 243:22,23 262:22 16 208:6,10 216:9 220:13,17 223:19 225:14,17 308:19 309:15 16th 222:6 224:18 225:2,9 309:16 165 165:10 17 221:19,20,22 222:14 235:8 242:19,20 245:15 245:23 275:17 18168:22 1850167:10 19 275:16,19,277:17' 316:22 19th 212:8 232:15 245:16,24 263:16, 265:1,5 312:17-- 316:3 1995 307:1 1997 204:19 1998 204:13,19 1999 295:23 2 281:2,4 309:23 315:6,10,23 320:11 2nd 320:1,4,5,5,6,7,7 2:09166:22 169:1 2:30 269:6 20 235:10 20th 289:22 290:10 200,000 249:7 262:16 2000 165:20 166:23 169:1 174:3 175:11,12 176:9,19 208:8 209:9 217:22 218:16 219:1,8 222:6 223:19 224:3,18,22 225:2,23 226:11 232:15 245:16,24 247:21265:1 275:17 278:23 280:5 281:2,4 289:21,22 290:5,10 290:23 292:14,20 297:18 299:1,20,25 301:4,20 305:13 308:19 309:15,16 309:23 310:14,18 312:9 313:4 314:16 315:7,10,23 316:22 21st 290:10,23 211,488 282:14 213167:5,11,16 22 278:22,23 22nd 200:22,23 23 280:23,24 281:2,8 282:10 293:10 316:9 319:10,12,19 319:20 320:15,17 321:9 238168:10 24 278:23 296:21 297:15,17,18 298:8 299:2,13 300:21,24 25 299:18 26 301:3,5,8,12 26th 310:14,17 312:9 313:4 314:16 27 302:22 306:2 28165:20 166:23 169:130312,13,15 303:18,24 285168:11 29 305:11911 3171:22 286:1,1 320:18 30 196:1296:9 308:15,16 309:20 322:20 323:1 30th 166:25 167:4 308168:22 31290:5 310:13,17 317168:12 32 315:5,6,10 319:9 320:12,21 324165:10 33000 245:2 3343 244:3,4 33433 273:15 3435 166:24 167:4 385-8000167:5 4 281:16,25 282:9,12 285:25 286:1,2,14 299:1 4s 282:18 4th 321:13,22 405 206:22,24 45 273:5 5168:3 174:3 208:1 225:23 226:2,11 250:12 271:12 320:6 5th 170:18 171:18 172:23 173:14 186:21217:22 224:22 226:14 295:1,12 5:52 324:7 515167:10 517,231282:15 6 293:14,16 294:2 60 231:17,22,24 259:15 263:11 60-day 263:10,18 617-0480167:11 63 246:19 633167:15 646,718 282:2 646,719 286:6 7 170:16,17 171:2,8 172:14,23 173:14 173:19 174:3 175:11,12 176:9,18 186:13,14 207:25 208:2 218:16,17 219:8 225:17 226:6,9 7th 195:23 218:19 219:1,11273:4 8180:8,14,24 82,000 253:19 281:25 282:25 286:3 287:2 290:18 896-2512167:16 DAVID C. BIGGS, 07.28.00- - BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON Page 343 9175:11,12 208:8 9th 209:9 9:00 297:3,5 90010167:5 90071167:11,16 % 307:1 97 204:14 98 204:14 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JILIO (714) 432-1711 LOSANGELES 1 F: 1 (909) 885•DEP0 SAN DIEGO 1?'$ NATIONWIDE FACKMILE (714) 432.7713 (800) 801.9149 INTEI NET hdPJMw-j t0M'-ff" nffV 3090 Bristol Street Suite 100 Costa Mesa California 92626 August 21, 2000 JAYNA MORGAN c/o EDAW 17875 Von Karman Avenue, #400 Irvine, CA 92714 RE: BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY vs. HUNTINGTON CENTER Dear Ms. Morgan, Enclosed is the original of your deposition. Please read it, make any corrections or changes by putting a single line through the words to be corrected in ink and inserting any changes directly above. PLEASE INITIAL EACH CHANGE. After reading and correcting your deposition, please do one of the following: Sign your deposition before any Notary Public in his/her presence. _XX_ Read and sign your deposition under Penalty of Perjury. Then send your transcript to Mr. Cohen. Your immediate attention to this matter will be greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, you should contact your counsel. Very truly yours, lie Bell )ilio 8a Associates cc: Loren N. Cohen Alan J. Watson JB/jd JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 3 4 5 6 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY, ) 7 Plaintiff,) ) 8 vs. ) CASE NO.00 CCO6309 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES ) LLC, et al., ) 10 ) Defendants. ) tl ) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF: JAYNA MORGAN MONDAY, AUGUST 7, 2000 1 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 TUCHMAN & ASSOCIATES BY: LOREN N. COHEN, ESQ. 5 3435 Wilshire Boulevard 30th Floor 6 Los Angeles, California 90010 (213)385-8000 7 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 8 LAW OFFICES OF HOLLAND & KNIGHT 9 BY: ALAN J. WATSON, ESQ. 633 West Fifth Street 10 Twenty -First Floor Los Angeles, California 90071-2040 11 (213)896-2400 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21- 22 23 224 5 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 INDEX 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 3 Examination by: Page 3 4 Mr. Cohen S 4 5 5 6 6 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY, ) 7 8 9 7 Plaintiff, ) EXHIBITS to 8 vs. ) CASE NO.00 CC06309 Plaintiffs Description For Identification I I 141 Notice of Taking Deposition 7 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES) 12 LLC, et al., ) 142 Letter Dated 9 1s-99 to 10 13 Mr. Dinovitz 34 Defendants. ) 14 143 Unsigned Version of the Letter Dated9-15-99 35 11 ) is 12 144 Specific Plan 12 with a Cover 16 Letter Dated 1-22-99 41 13 17 145 Specific Plan Dated Received 14 March 30, 1999 46 15 — 18 15 146 General Plan Consistency for 19 theCrossingsAl 17 The deposition of JAYNA MORGAN, taken on behalf of Specific Plan project 51 18 the Plaintiff, before SHELLIE A. CAMARATA, Certified 20 19 Shorthand Reporter No. 10275 for the State of t47 Documents Regarding the Crossings 20 California, commencingat 10:25 a.m., Monday, August 7, Y 8 21 at Huntington With a Cover Leiter Dated 5-26-00 57 21 2000, at 3435 Wilshire Boulevard, 30th Floor, Los 22 22 Angeles, California. 148 Two Pages of Insert Language for 23 the Specific Plan 62 24 149 5 Page Document Dated 5-4 24 Regarding Crossings at 25 25 Huntington Beach 63 2 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 3 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTING'120N 1 EXHIBITS 1 Exhibit 141, the notice of taking deposition for PMK at 2 Plaintiffs Description For Identification 2 EDAW. 3 150 Memorandum Dated 8-2-00 3 Are you familiar with that notice? 4 From Alia Hokuki 65 4 A yes. 5 151 Documents Listed as Outgoing 5 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 141 was marked Correspondence 66 6 for identification by the court 6 152 Documents Listed as Incoming 7 reporter and is attached.) 7 Correspondence 69 g By Mg, COE>EN: 8 153 Meeting Minutes of 9 Q And you were selected as the person most 9 December 2, 1999 86 10 knowledgeable to respond to the questions listed in this 154 Huntington Center Crossings 11 deposition subpoena; is that correct? 10 Dated 1-21-00 101 12 A That's correct. 11 155 Document Entitled No. 9, 13 Q Who selected you? Crossings at Huntington Project 14 A Don Smith the principal of EDAW. 12 13 Meetings Agenda 105 15 Q Where is EDAW located? 14 16 A They are located in the City of Irvine. Do 15 17 you want me to — 16 18 Q I want the address. 17 18 19 A 17875 Von Karman, V-o-n, K-a-r-m-a-n, Avenue, 19 INFORMATION REQUESTED 20 Suite 400, that's Irvine, 92614. 20 None. 21 Q And the work phone number? 21 22 A It's area code (949) 660410" My extension 22 23 23 is 327. 24 24 Q Have you had your deposition taken before? 25 25 A No. 5 7 1 Monday, August 7, 2000, 10:25 a.m. 1 Q Well, the way it's works is, that the court 2 Los Angeles, California 2 reporter, the oath that she just gave you, is the same 3 - 3 oath that you would take in a court of law. Meaning, 4 JAYNA MORGAN, 4 you have to answer under the penalty of perjury, and 5 was called as a witness by and on behalf of the 5 anything that you say can be used against you. 6 Plaintiff, and having been first duly sworn by the 6 Do you understand that? 7 Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined and testified 7 A Yes, I do. 8 as follows: 8 Q The court reporter will prepare a transcript. 9 9 It will be my questions and your answers, and it will 10 EXAMINATION 10 read like a play. 11 BY MR. COHEN: 11 Do you understand that? 12 Q Could you state and spell your name for the 12 A I'm familiar with those. I have read through 13 record. 13 many of them. 14 A Sure. It's Jayna Morgan_._It's spelled 14 Q You will have an opportunity to correct your 15 J-a-y-n-a, M-o-r-g-a-a 15 answers. 16 Q And your home address? 16 A Okay. 17 A Home address is 10120 Sunkist Circle in the 17 Q However, we really would like to have your 18 City of Villa Park. 18 best testimony today. If you do make some corrections, 19 Q What park? 19 we will be able to comment on them and make adverse 20 A Villa, V-i-I-I-a, P-a-r-k, California 20 comments on those changes. 21 Q Do you know the zip code? 21 Do you understand that? 22 A 92816. 22 A I do. 23 . Q And your home number? 23 Q Is there any reason why you can't provide your 24 A (714) 998-5505. 24 best testimony today? 25 Q I would like to mark for identification as 25 A No. 6 8 2 (Pages 5 to 8) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 )AYNA MORGAN, 08,07.00- - BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q You are employed with EDAW, correct? A I'm employed as an independent contractor. What that means is that — I was employed with them fblltime for seven years. And after having my second child, I took a part-time position coming back. And because I lost my benefits, I decided that it wasn't as cost-effective for me to be part time. So, they hired me on as an independent contractor. We refer to them as an IC. And I basically kept the same projects that I had when I was a full-time employee. Q When did you become an IC? A I became an IC -- my daughter is four. So, three years ago. Q And you began your employment with EDAW when? A My daughter is seven. I was pregnant when I came there. So, eight years ago. That would have been 1992; late '91/early '92. Q What is your highest form of education? A I have a bachelor's degree from UC Irvine. Q Do you have any credentialing, any licensing? A No. Q What was your major? A Social ecology. Q What do you do? A Urban land planning, urban architectural and eaviroomeotal planning. The company has been around for 52 years. Q What is urban land planning? A Urban land planning is kind of like master planning. Developers often approach EDAW with raw pieces of land, usually several hundred acres, and ask them to lay out a planned community. Don Smith the principal of EDAW is probably best (mown for being the master planner of Cons De Casa, Santa Margarita. We are wrrendy the — cnrrendy we are the land master planners for a community in Orange County called Iadern itanek. And they do physical planning where they actually lay out the grading where home sites should be, lotting studies Whereas I do more policy 16 planning,. _ 17 Q I see. 18 A So, there Is a distinction between physical 19 and policy, policy being more paper planning. 20 Q Would that be more for the zoning issues? 21 A Zoning, yes, correct. 22 Q Can you describe your position with EDAW, what 23 you do, your duties? 24 A My duties with EDAW, I oversee/manage CEQA. 25 It would be related projects — CEQA, California 10 1 Environment Quality Act And that consists of initial 2 studies, mitigated negative declarations, environmental 3 impact reports. And then on the policy planning side 4 would be specific plans, projects that involve general 5 plan amendments. 6 And then also permit applications which kind 7 of go along with most projects nowadays. And the permit 8 applications would be both City applications for zone 9 change, site plan reviews. And then with other agencies 10 outside of the City which would be Department of Fish 11 and Game Army, Core of Engineers, those would be more 12 like 404 permits, stream bed alteration agreements, 13 that's a 1603 permit 14 Q Do you assist in getting applications for 15 specific plans and that type of thing? 16 A I do when we am requested to do that. In 17 many cases the applicant's engineer or architect will 18 take the lead on preparing the application, but in some 19 cases the applicant will request that we do that and we 20 can do that 21 Q In regard to the — as for the Huntington 22 Center Mall who prepared the application? 23 A To my knowledge it was the applicant's 24 architect which was Greenberg Farrow with assistance 25 from the Ezralow Company, E-z-r-a-I-o-w. 11 1 Q What is your position title at EDAW? 2 A When I was fblltime employee, I was a senior 3 associate. Typically now they refer to me as a project 4 manager because I am an independent contractor. And I 5 should say that I am also employed by a company other 6 than EDAW, one major company other than EDAW, if that's 7 the — 8 Q Who is that? 9 A Newhall lAnd and Farming or the Valencia 10 Company. 11 Q It's the same entity? 12 A Same entity. Basically built the City of 13 Valencia or Santa Clarity 14 Q What do you do there? 15 A I work on a specific plan for them called 16 North Valencia No. 2. A specific plan, it's a five acre 17 specific plan. 18 Q And it's for the specific project? 19, A Newhall land and Farming project, correct. 20 Q Anything else that you do IC work with? 21 A No, just those two companies. 22 Q In the last three years? 23 A Yes, just those two. 24 Q lust those two? 25 A Yes. 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 12 3 (Pages 9 to 12) 1 Q Ezralow and Newhall Land and Farming? t 2 A Yes There is one other .- what's the name? 2 3 It's Morrison, M-o-r-r-i-s-o-u. And they are out of 3 4 Calabassas. And that is for a project in the City of 4 5 Moorpark. 5 6 Q Are you preparing a specific plan for them? 6 7 A I have prepared a specific plan under contract 7 8 with EDAW with the City, and I'm finishing a document 8 9 called an HCP which is Habitant Conservation Plan that 9 10 is required by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for 10 11 federally endangered species which is on that property, 11 12 which is the California Gnat Catcher. 12 13 Q Did you maintain your position as a senior 13 14 associate throughout your time with EDAW? 14 15 A I did, I was until -- 15 16 Q Until you became an IC? 16 17 A Until I became an IC, that's correct. There 17 18 was a short period of time where I came back part time 18 19 after my second child, and then the decision was made at 19 20 that point, after losing benefits, to become an IC. 20 21 Q You are familiar with the Huntington Center 21 22 Mall; is that correct? 22 23 A I am. 23 24 Q How are you familiar with it? 24 25 A Initially I started working on it in '98.for 25 13 1 the prior owner the Macerich, M-a-c-e-r-i-c-b, Company. I 1 2 Q I also -- 2 3 A They were the prior owners. They were the 3 4 owners that Ezralow purchased the mall from. That's my 4 5 understanding. 5 6 Q And it was Macerich that contacted EDAW? 6 7 A Through a recommendation from the City of 7 8 Huntington Beach to contact EDAW. I have done work for 8 9 the City of Huntington Beach since the mid '80s. 9 10 Q What work did you do for the City? 10 i t A i have done -- I started out doing the 11 12 environmental impact reports when they were redeveloping 12 13 their downtown, Main Street area. 1 have done an EIR 13 14 for them. I'm currently working oa the EIR for the Shea 14 15 Homes project which is a residentiat project It is an 15 16 environmental report for the Home Depot project 16 17 1 recently completed before Macerich contacted 17 18 me, a specific plan and EIR for McDonald Douglas, which 18 19 is now Boeing. And that was for their industrial park 19 20 property which is in the City of Huntington Beach. 20 21 Q When you say "you," you mean EDAW? 21 22 A I mean EDAW. 22 23 Q It's going to be a little confusing now 23 24- because you are an IC, I didn't realize that. We will 24 25 just have to make it clear. 25 14 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON A Most of the IC work that I do I should clarify, the contract is with EDAW. The contract is between the City and EDAW and the rest of the other contract was Ezralow and EDAW. And I'm just contracted with EDAW to do that work. Q That's right. I understand that. Okay. In '98 when EDAW was doing work for Macerich, what type of work did you do? A We did the specific plan. Q I got a question on that. I have seen a Specific Plan 12 and Specific Plan 13. Was there a Specific Plan 1 through I I? A There was, yes The City of Huntington Beach — I couldn't tell you what they all are, but there has been 12 specific plans. Up to the time when you saw 12, that was actually 12 specific plans that had been adopted within the City of Huntington Beach. Q SP-12 was adopted with Huntington Beach? A If that was the one that was Macerich's specific plan, then it was not adopted. If SP-13 is Ezraiow's, that one was recently adopted. Q So, the only one that was adopted by the City was SP-l3? A That's correct And probably some of 1 through 10, or i through 11, but I don't know what those 15 are. Q And then 1 through 11, those would be specific plans prepared by EDAW for Macerich; is that correct? A No, Specific Plana 1 through 11 would be other specific plans in other locations. If the City prepared — one of them was prepared by EDAW because I think that SP.10 was the McDonald Douglas' specific plan. SP-9 or 8 may have been the Meadowlark Golf Course. There was a specific plan called Meadowlark Golf Course which was not prepared by EDAW. It would either be prepared by the City themselves or another consulting firm. Q Could you describe a little bit in more detail how this numbering system works? A As I understand it, it would just be the— as a specific plan application comes into the City, they will number it as the first number that came in that a specific — the first time a specific plan was done, it would have been Specific Plan No. 1. The second applicant for a specific plan may be with a different property owner or different applicant, it would be numbered Specific Plan No. 2 and soon. Q Well, do you know when this numbering system 16 4 (Pages 13 to 16) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 7AYNA MORGAN, 08.07:0W BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25- started? A I do not. It's the City's numbering system. Q In addition to preparing a specific plan for Macerich, what else did EDAW do? A We did the environmental assessment for the project which for the Macerich project consisted of a partial exception under Public Resource Code 210833. Q Okay. What is that? A It's the exception, the Public Resource Code exception or the environmental assessment Q Let's start with the environmental assessment? A The environmental assessment under CEQA, we did a mitigated negative declaration which part of that included a partial exception for the Macerich project. The mitigated negative declaration was done specifically for the CUP portion of the project The Conditional Use Permit is what CUP stands for. The Macerich project, as I recall, had a specific site plan and had filed applications for a CUP, whereas the Ezralow project did not file applications for a CUP. Q Is it your understanding though that Ezralow will have to? A They will have to. 17 Q File a CUP? A They will have to file. Q An application? A An application either for CUP or for a site plan approval for a site plan review. Q What is the difference between a CUP an application for CUP and a site plan review? A A CUP is something that is a Conditional Use Permit If there is something in the site plan that is not outright permitted by the zoning, then there is a requirement for a Conditional Use Permit Q Okay., A Typically a CUP is a discretionary action which requires an approval for the planning commission and City Council. A site plan review or just a site plan approval in some cases is if the uses are all permitted uses under the zoning, then some cities do not require discretionary action for that approval. Q Is it your understanding that with SP-13 it is in place? A Right Q Do you believe that the City would require Ezralow to do an application for a CUP, or do you think that they can just move forward with a site plan review? A I really couldn't answer that unless I knew 18 1 what the site plan was because the CUP versus site plan 2 review is really going to be dependent on what their 3 final site plan is. So, in terms of ernes and the' 4 heights of the uses, you know it would really be 5 dependant on what their final site plan is. 6 Q If their final plan is not at variance — 7 A Correct. 8 Q -- with the SP-13? 9 A Correct. 10 Q Then they can probably go by way of a site 11 plan review; is that correct? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q The procedures in how to get a CUP versus just 14 a site plan review, can you discuss that the difference 15 between what Ezralow would have to do to get a CUP 16 versus a site plan review? 17 A Well, a CUP, the applications would most 18 likely be similar. The main difference I% as 1 19 understand it, would be that the CUP requires a 20 discretionary action by the planning of the City 21 Council. Whereas a site plan review could be approved 22 at the planning department's staff level or zoning 23 administratm''s staff level approval. 24 Q And for a site plan review, you wouldn't:. 25 necessarily need a public hearing; is that correct? 19 1 A I'm not sure if you would or aot 2 Q With the condition — 3 A The zoning administrator hearings, I know are 4 open to the public. So, I don't know if they are 5 noticed to the saute fashion in the planning commission 6 aad City CouucL They often times — the City has a 7 zoning administrator hearing which looks at and 8 considers projects. 9 And I'm not sure if the noticing requirements 10 for a zoning administrator action are the same as the 11 planning commission and City Council. A CUP though does 12 require a public hearing at least at the planning 13 commission level, is what I recall. 14 Q Does EDAW assist the developer, in this case 15 Ezralow, in proceeding with either the CUP or site plan 16 review? 17 A We haven't been asked to do that. 18 Q Does EDAW perform those type of services 19 though? 20 A We have in the past 21 Q Does EDAW anticipate that they will be asked 22 by Ezralow to perform those services? 23 A I don't think so. 24 Q Why is that? 25 A Ezralow architects and Ezralow have worked ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 20 5 (Pages 17 to 20) 1 much more closely with the site plan process. In the 1 2 development of the site plan process, and I would just 2 3 think that they would work together to do the 3 4 . applications for either CUP or a site plan review. 4 5 Q Do you give any opinions to Ezralow or to a 5 6 developer as to whether they should proceed by way of a 6 7 CUP or site plan review? 7 8 A I have in the past 8 9 Q In this case you have not though with Ezralow? 9 10 A No. 10 11 Q No, being that you have not? 11 12 A I have not, yes. 12 13 Q What is EDAW's involvement now regarding 13 14 Huntington Center Mall with Ezralow as being a 14 15 developer? 15 16 A Currently or when we were working — because 16 17 currently there is no involvement. 17 18 Q When did you start working with Ezralow with 18 19 regards to the Huntington Center Mall? 19 20 A September of Iasi year. 20 21 Q September of '99? 21 22 A Correct. 22 23 Q And how did EDAW get involved with Ezralow? 23 24 A Again, the City had recommended EDAW as we 24 25 prepared the prior specific plan for the Macerich's 25 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON MR. WATSON: When you said "they," did you mean the City or Ezralow? THE WITNESS: Ezralow had interviewed another firm. We did not interview with the City just with Ezralow. MR. COHEN: I see. Q When was the first interview? A Probably back in September. Q Were you involved in that interview? A Yes. Q Who else was involved? A Our marketing director Kimberly Cowern. Q How do you spell that? A K-i-m-b-e-r-1-y, C-o-w-e-r-n. Q Okay. And who else was there? A Scou Dinovitz. Q And yourself? A Yes. Q Was the principal, what's his name, Don Smith there? A He was not at the interview. He was introduced. Q What was discussed at that meeting? A The prior work that we had done for Macerich. 21 1 23 i project. And I was contacted at that point by both the 1 Q Specifically the Specific Plan 12? 2 City and Scott Dinovitz of the Ezralow Company. 2 A Correct 3 Q Well, does Scott Dinovitz, is he employed by 3 Q What else was discussed? 4 Ezralow? 4 A Tbetime frame at which we would be able to 5 Who is Scott Dinovitz? 5 produce a specific plan or revise a specific plan, I 6 A I think he's employed by Ezralow. He was our 6 should say, for Ezralow. And more specifically how 7 key contact person. 7 quickly could we get a proposal to do the work to 8 Q Did you ever speak with Douglas Gray? 8 Ezralow. 9 A At meetings I was introduced to him. All of 9 Q Proposal? 10 my telephone contacts, though, were with Scott 10 A Being — a scope of work with fees, estimates. 11 Q So, EDAW is retained by Ezralow; is that 11 Q Okay. I would like to know what specifically 12 correct? 12 was EDAW's assignment, what was EDAW supposed to do for 13 A Correct 13 Ezralow? 14 Q And all the invoicing for bills and what not, 14 A Basically work with them in revising or 15 that goes to Ezralow? 15 updating the specific plan and provide any necessary 16 A That's correct 16 coordination with City staff in updating the specific 17 Q All that the City of Huntington Beach did was 17 plan. 18 recommend EDAW to provide the services that Ezralow was 18 Q l see. 19 looking for; is that correct? 19 And the specific plan was Ezralow's specific 20 A That's correcL And I believe that they had 20 plan that they were going to submit to the City; is that 21 interviewed another firm besides EDAW. 21 correct? 22 Q Who is that? 22 A That's correct. And our coordination would 23 A You know, I can't recall. They were not 23 also be with their architects and their civil engineer. 24- local. They were not a local Orange County firm I know 24 Q Do you know who their architects were? 25 that. 25 A Greenberg Farrow. 22 1 24 6 (Pages 21 to 24) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 Q And their civil engineer? 2 A HAD and Foreman, and their traffic engineer 3 was L3aecMt Law and Greenspan. 4 Q What is a civil engineer what do they do? 5 A A civil year does backbone infmstructure for 6 projects. When I say "backbone infrastructure," I mean 7 sewer, water, storm drainage, and all those are required 8 components by State law to be included in a specific 9 plan to lay out basically just the backbone 10 infrastructure. 11 Q And then the architects? 12 A The design guidelines, the site plan, the 13 signage standards. 14 Q And then the traffic engineers? 15 A Traffic analysis, kind of overall circulation 16 plan for the mall. And then they also completed a 17 shared parking analysis as well. 18 Q Were there any other independent contractors, 19 1 guess, that Ezralow was working with regarding this 20 mall? 21 A None that I'm aware of. 22 Q So, what would EDAW do in relation to the City 23 in getting the specific plan going for Ezralow? 24 A Well, we would meet with the City and 25 basically talk with them about the information that ►i 1 we're providing to Ezralow and any input that the City 2 would want to have. We will obviously give them review 3 copies of the document for their comment. 4 Keep them apprised of the status of these 5 studies, technical studies is what I refer to the civil 6 engineering the traffic engineering, and just get any 7 comments from their City departments on concerns that 8 they would have on a specific plan. 9 Q And if the City or its agencies, if they had 10 any comments, what would you do then? 11 A We would relay that information to Ezralow. 12 Q And then Ezralow would? 13 A Either address it or choose not to address it. 14 Q But it's Ez alow's decision to do whatever 15 they want to do with those? 16 A. Correct. -- 17 Q With this specific plan? 18 A Correct. 19 Q In this case it was Specific Plan 13? 20 A Yes.. 21 Q And I guess a SP-12 too? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Because I guess they had involvement too; is 24 that correct? 25 A As I understand, they did not have any 26 1 involvement In Sp.12 that was the Macerich Company which 2 was a prior owner. 3 Q Okay. 4 A The City did have involvement in SP-12, and 5 they provided Input in SIP-12. A lot of input they 6 provided In SP-12 was similar to the input they provided 7 in SP-13. 8 Q Those being — the input being the comments? 9 A They were certain permitted uses. For 10 example, if they did ant fed they are necessary or 11 warranted for a regional mall site, an auto repair shop 12 is one that I can state off the top of my head that 13 comes to mind, that would be a City comment which I 14 would have then passed onto Ezralow. 15 Q Who was your contact at the City of Huntington 16 Beach? 17 A Jane James. 18 Q And she is in what department? 19 A She is in the planning departmeat. 20 Q And who else? 21 A Well, Howard Zeiebhy in the planning director 22 really wasn't our primary contact. Although, we did 23 discuss things, issues, with him in meetings. 24 Q Who else? 25 A Scott, he was the senior planner finder Howard 27 1 Zelefsky, again not the primary contact We had no 2 telephone contact except to we him in meetings. 3 Q Did you ever have telephone contact with 4 Howard Zelefsky? 5 A I did not. 6 Q Jane James was the primary? 7 A Correct. 8 Q Now, did you have a meeting with anyone or 9 speak with anyone from the redevelopment agency? 10 A In meetings, yes, I did, and that would be 11 David Biggs, B-i-g-g-s. 12 Q And who else? 13 A That was & 14 Q What about Fallon? 15 A Melanie Fallon? 16 Q No, it's a guess, F-a-i-I-o-n, I believe is -- 17 A Fallon is his first oame? 18 Q We will -- he's definitely in the documents. 19 That does not ring a bell? 20 A No, it does not I know Melanie Fallon during 21 the Macerkh project. She was the director of Community 22 Development for the City of Huntington Beach. And she 23 was involved actually with the McDonald Douglas specific 24 plan that I worked on. We had weekly — biweekly 25 meetings, and she was involved In that specific plan. JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 28 7 (Pages 25 to 28) 1 I don't recall her being involved in the I 1 2 Macerich specific plan for Ezralow. She's now currently ( 2 3 employed at the City of Long Beach. 3 4 Q When you were working on the project for 4 5 Macerich, who were you working with from the City? 5 6 A Jane James was the key contact person there 6 7 also. 7 8 Q Who was the key contact person from Macerich 8 9 that you were working with? 9 10 A Tom Jared. 10 11 Q Anybody else? 11 12 A No. 12 13 Q What other projects is EDAW working on, on 13 14 behalf of the City? 14 15 A The City of Huntington Beach. 15 16 Q Yes. 16 17 A The Shea Homes'-- currently, the Shea Homes 17 18 EIR. It's also referred to as the Parkside Estates 18 19 Impact Report. I think that's the only other one right 19 20 now. 20 21 Q What about the Edinger Corridor project? 21 22 A You know that I should say that EDAW -- there 22 23 is a new principal at EDAW. And i believe that is just 23 24 within the last couple of weeks EDAW was selected to 24 25 work on the Edinger Corridor project. Although I'm not 25 29 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON planning side. Q Okay. And when you say planning — A The physical planning, specifically policy planning. And when I say "environmental," I mean CEQA environmentaL Q So, the services that Ezralow retained you for, would you consider that the planning side? A I would say they did more — they retained us more for planning than they did for environmental. Although, we did give them advice on environmental. Q Could you explain the Edinger Corridor project? A I'm not really involved in it. No, I'm not working on it at all. To my knowledge, I don't believe that the project has even begttn. Q What I didal say in the beginning in my admonitions, there is a difference between guessing and estimating. And we don't want you to guess or just speculate. We would like you to give your best estimations. And a typical example of that is, if I asked you what the length of this table, it's in front of you, you can give me an estimate. You don't have a ruler, but you can give me an estimate on it. If I asked you what the length of my 31 I involved in that project 1 desk is my office, that's pure speculation. 2 Q Who is that? 2 You have never seen that before? 3 A A gentleman by the name of Kee Ryan, he 3 A I would be speculating to tell you that 4 recently joined EDAW a month ago. I was actually on 4 project 5 vacation when he joined EDAW. He came from a company 5 Q Okay. 6 called PBR. And I believe that they, PBR, was awarded 6 What is the Edinger Corridor project? Well, 7 that contract with him being the principal in charge. 7 there is a project that I know of that requires the 8 And since he's joined EDAW, I believe they were taking 8 widening of the Edinger Street? 9 it back to Council to see if the contract could be 9 A Correct 10 negotiated with EDAW to do that work. 10 Q Is that part of the Edinger Corridor project, 11 Q 1 see. 11 or is that something entirely different? 12 What other companies that perform the same 12 A I know that in prior meetings that I have sat 13 type of services as EDAW are there in Orange County? 13 in, there was discussion of a precise street alignment 14 A The Planning Center. Do you want to know 14 plan for Edinger Corridor, which I believe involved the 15 names of the companies? — 15 widening of Edinger Corridor. And a lot of discussion 16 Q Yeah, the names of the companies. 16 with the traffic engineer and the City, meaning 17 A The Planning Center would do similar work. 17 Ezralow's traffic engineer, to make sure that they had 18 More — not so much on the environmental side, but more 18 that precise street alignment planned so that they were 19 on the planning side. Bonteria Consulting would do 19 accounting for what that alignment, and what that future 20 environmental work. 20 width would need to be. 21 Q How do you spell that? 21 I don't know if that is the precise street 22 A B-o-n-t-e-r-i-a, I believe. 22 plan because that's something that was already adopted. 23 Q Okay. 23 I don't know if it has anything to do with this new 2� _ Who else? 24 Edinger Corridor project. 25 A A company called Forma, F-o-r-m-a, more on the 25 Q I see. 30 32 8 (Pages 29 to 32) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 ]AYNA MORGAN, 08.07.0W 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But as far as the widening of the street, that is incorporated with Ezralow and SP-13? A To my knowledge, it is, yes. Q EzWow is required to widen that Edinger Street if they go forward with the redevelopment of this mall; is that correct? A I don't know if they are required to widen it. They may have dedicated the right of way, or to just provide it for the right of way. I don't know if its their responsibility to do the improvements or not. That would probably be in the conditions of the approval that would be adopted with the specific plan. Q Now, at EDAW you said that Scott Dinovitz was your main contact? A Correct. Q Who else from Ezralow or Huntington -- do you know the difference between Ezralow and Huntington Center Associates? A No. Q As far as you know, it's Ezralow that owns the mail? A Correct. Q And is the one who is developing the mall; is that correct? A That's correct. 33 Q And the one who prepared the -- or had prepared the SP-13; is that correct? A That's correct. Q Does EDAW have a retainer contract with Ezralow like some sort of a contract for the services that were rendered? A Yes, we have a contract with them. Q Did you bring that with you today? A I may have brought the original contract. MR. COHEN: Okay. I would like to mark for identification as Exhibit No. 142 an agreement letter dated September 15th, 1999 to Scott Dinovitz. And it's in regards to the Huntington Crossing Specific Plan. This is a letter that you just provided me. Q You are familiar with this? A Yes.. (PlaintilTs Exhibit 142 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached.) BY MR. CORN: Q And how are you familiar with Exhibit 41? A I helped prepare it. Q , And excuse me, that is Exhibit 142. So, you helped prepare this letter? A Cotes 34 I Q And this is the — can you describe what this 2 letter is, the purpose of it? 3 A It's Just an agreement letter which is a 4 standard EDAW agreement letter which goes out with every 5 project we start work on. And basically says it a 6 contract, a formal contract is never signed, that EDAW 7 would be reimbursed for the services that we prepared. 8 Q I see. 9 And was any letter agreement similar to this 10 prepared or signed by the City of Huntington Beach? 11 A No. Not to my knowledge. I don't have a copy 12 of it. 13 Q Okay. I would like to mark for identification 14 as Exhibit 143, the same September 15th, 1999 letter 15 unsigned. But this one has an attachment to it. 16 How are you familiar with this document? 17 A I assisted in preparing W 18 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 143 was marked 19 for identification by the court 20 reporter and is attached.) 21 BY MR COHEN: 22 Q And what is it? 23 A It's our scope of work for preparation of the 24 Huntington Crossing Specific Plan update. 25 Q So, is this, the Attachment A. is that 35 referred to in Exhibit 142? 2 A Yes. 3 Q So, basically Attachment A and Attachment B 4 describes the scope of work that EDAW was to perform for 5 Ezralow; is that correct? 6 A That's correct 7 Q And is it correct that EDAW never entered into 8 any contract with the City of Huntington Beach in 9 regards to the Specific Plan 13; is that correct? 10 A That's correct 11 Q I would like to go to Page 1 of Attachment A 12 to Exhibit 143. 13 And I would like you to discuss the scope of 14 work that EDAW was to perform for Ezralow. 15 A Okay. The tasks that we were proposing to do 16 was basically attending project status meetings related 17 to the specific plan. And those project status meetings 18 could occur with City staffers or their subcontractors. 19 And we were to document the meeting minutes and agendas, 20 the contents on what was discussed in those meetings. 21 Also we were to prepare the specific plan 22 document revisions, basically using the Maceric6 23 document that had been prepared as a base or standing 24 point And the third major task in preparing a general 25 plan consistency analysis which is required by State law ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.640.8787 36 9 (Pages 33 to 36) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 '_0 21 23 24. 25 to be a component of a specific plan. And then the fourth item which was, I believe, an optional item, was to prepare the environmental assessment. Q Was that ever prepared? A A formal environmental assessment was not prepared for SP-13. One was prepared for the Macerich project, but for Ezralow because a CUP and a definitive site plan had never been adopted or prepared, an environmental assessment could not be prepared. Some findings were adopted in the Public Resource Code that I cited previously in the deposition. It was used as an exception for exemption for a site project Q Was it -- the environmental impact report needs to be prepared? A It's my opinion that one does not need to be prepared. Q And why is that? A Because the general plan that was prepared by the City and adopted by the City had an environmental impact report with that And as part of Public Resource Code, I think I cited the number before. And now I can't recall exactly what the number is, a project which is consistent basically with assumptions in the City's general plan are under the threshold of development That is looked at in the City's general plan 37 and can be exempt from CEQA for the findings. Prior CEQA document for the City's general plan can be used to adopt the specific — a subsequent specific plan. And particularly what Public Resource Code Section 210833B is, if a development project is consistent with the general plan of a local agency and an environmental impact report was certified with respect to that general plan, the application of this division, meaning CEQA, to the approval of that development project, shall be limited to the facts on the environment which are peculiar or partial to the project, or which were not addressed as significant facts in the prior impact report. And it goes oo. just — that's the gist of it And basically the purpose of that PRC section is to streamline the environmental process for specific plan projects which are identified in a City's general plan and consistent with tbeir general plan. Q And this is the advice that EDAW provided to Ezralow; is that correct? A And the City. Q And the City? A Yes, more so the City because we believe that -it's -- we have done environmental work for the City for 15 years and have never had anything challenged, and 38 7AYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 keep it that way. 2 Q And basically maybe just to put it in a 3 layman's perspective, since the specific plan isn't 4 going to alter or change the concept of the general 5 plan? 6 A Correct. 7 Q And the since the general plan has already had 8 an environmental report performed on it? 9 A Correct. 10 Q It's Ezralow's position that another EIR need 11 not be prepared? 12 A That's correct. And actually the general plan 13 looked at a much greater development scenario or a 14 larger amount of development than was looked at in the 15 general plan. Now, that's not — only one thing that I 16 would add to that is, that no development can occur 17 right now with the specific plan adoption. 18 It's a zoning document. And a subsequent 19 environmental review will be necessary at such time as a 20 definitive site plan becomes available for the project. 21 And at that time that you have a definitive site plan, 22 you need to consider those impacts that may have not 23 been looked at in the general plan EIR jag due to the 24 level of detail 25 Q So, Isee. 39 1 At each step you will have to make another 2 determination as to whether you have to do an EIR? 3 A Correct. 4 Q At this particular step with the specific 5 plan, you are of the opinion that an EIR need not be 6 produced? 7 A Correct 8 Q Did the City of Huntington Beach or any of its 9 agencies ever ask EDAW to prepare a specific plan for 10 this Huntington Center Mall? 11 A You mean going to contract with the City -- 12 just ask as to prepare it I mean, I have had staff 13 members suggest that they hope that I was involved in 14 the project again because I have a good rapport with 15 them, and that's why they recommended EDAW. 16 Q But aside from a recommendation, they never on 17 their own behalf -- 18 A CorrecL 19 Q -- requested EDAW to prepare a specific plan? 20 A That's correc L 21 Q I would like to mark for identification as 22 Exhibit 144 a copy of SP-12. And there is a January 22, 23 1999 cover letter to it? 24 A Is that the one`! 25 Q Yes, that's it. We're going to go through -- 40 10 (Pages 37 to 40) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 8 9 10 1t 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 I have some specific questions that I want to ask and then we will go through all of your documents and — A Okay. Q I would like to know if you are familiar with Exhibit 144? A Yes. (Plaintiff's Exhibit 144 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached.) BY MR. COHEN: Q How are you familiar with it? A I assisted in the preparation of it. Q And what is Exhibit 144? A It's a copy of Specific Plan No. 12 dated December 7th, 1998 which at that time was referred to as the Pacific Promenade. Q And that was a specific plan prepared for Macerich; is that correct? A That's correct. 20 Q And this plan was authored by — was it 21 authored by EDAW? 22 A EDAW in concert with Macerich and the City of 23 Huntington Beach and the architects of Macerich who were 24 different than the architects of Ezralow. 25 Q Do you know who they are? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 A Feola and Archuleta, F-e-o-I-a, and A-r-c-h-u-l-e-t-a. Q And you are reading from? A The title page on the specific plan. Q I see. That would be page -- probably Page 2 of it? A Yeah. Q Okay. What involvement did the City have in regard to -- they provided their comments; is that correct? A Correct. Q And then Macerich and EDAW discussed those comments to determine whether or not to include them in SP-12? A That's correct Q Did the City have any other involvement in regard to SP-12 other than just providing comments? A That was — their main involvement would be providing comments: Q Do you remember what their comments were at the time of SP-12, some of the things that they were looking for? A Things that stand out in my mind would have been the permit use. They had definite uses that they did not want to see in the specific plan such as auto 42 1 repair. Things that they didn't feel were regional -type 2 uses. 3 Another issue that they had was with the 4 design guidelines and wanting to ensure that when the 5 mail was revamped and received new architectural, and, 6 you know, just a new facade, that some of the other 7 freestanding buildings were also revamped to make them 8 look like they fit in the mall. 9 When I say "freestanding buildings," I would 10 say the Montgomery Wards, Burlington and Mervyn's. t 1 Q So, it was then -- and those three 12 freestanding buildings, it was intended that they would 13 remain -- 14 A Correll. 15 Q -- in that mall after the redevelopment; is 16 that correct? 17 A Yes, if they were going to remain. I don't 18 know if it was always intended that they would remain. 19 But if they were going to remain, there was concern that 20 they would match the rest of the mall. And that same 21 concem was also expressed with Ezralow. 22 Q With Ezralow? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Was there anything -- was there anything: 25 discussed about a big box theory? Are you familiar with 43 1 that? Or a big box planning of retail, for example how 2 Montgomery Wards is considered a big box? 3 Are you familiar with that concept? 4 A But when I hear "big box," I think more of a 5 Puce Club or Home Depot as a big box. I don't think of 6 it as much for a department store as a big box. I think 7 they refer to those as department stores than they do 8 big box. If you are talking about how they refer to 9 Montgomery Wards — 10 Q So, if there is -- I understand. The 11 definition of big box does not pertain to Montgomery 12 Wards, Burlington or Mervyn's, it would be more of a 13 theory of Home Depot? 14 A I don't know if it doesn't pertain, I just 15 don't recall big box being used to describe — they were 16 always descnlmd as the existing department stores or 17 department stores. I don't know that the big box 18 definition could exclude a department store. 19 Q I see. I think. 20 A There is really.not a set definition for big 21 box. 22 Q So, even though there might be some -- 23 Burlington and Montgomery Wards and Mervyn's they are 24 not excluded from SP-13? 25 A No. 44 11 (Pages 41 to 44) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Not would they be excluded from SP-12? A That's correct Q And at the time of SP-12, Macerich intended to include Burlington; is that correct? A To my knowledge they did. A lot of the tenant negotiations between Macerich and their tenants as well as Ezralow and their tenants were not subjects that were discussed with as. Q I see. At the time — A EDAW. Q -- EDAW? A Yes. Q And that was at the time of SP-12? A And SP-13. Q EDAW had really no involvement? A The tenant negotiations, tenant relation or negotiations. Other than that, we were aware that negotiations were going on. Q Of some sort? A Of some sort, but not just of what those were. Q Okay. I would like to mark for identification as Exhibit 145, a specific plan identified as No. 12, but it's different than 144. And I would like to see if you are familiar 45 with that SP-12? A Yes, I am. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 145 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached.) BY MR COZEN: Q How are you familiar with it? A We again assisted in the preparation of this specific plan, and I believe I have a copy. Q Right. Now, we will just use this copy and then we will move to yours. Now, why was this changed the SP -- well, why is Exhibit 144 changed into Exhibit 145? A To represent the proposal by the Ezralow Company. This specific plan is dated March 20th, 2000. This was one of the first drafts as I understand, that was submitted to the City of behalf of Ezralow's proposal rather than the Macericb proposal. Q Do you know why then SP-12 became SP-13? A I think it probably changed once, the application went in and there was a different owner involved. That decision would have probably been made by the City. It wasn't a decision that was made by EDAW. Q lust to give it a new number? 46 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 A Just to give it a new number, correct- 2 Q Who did the application on behalf of the 3 Ezralow? 4 A I believe it was Ezralow in conjunction with 5 their arckitects which is Greenberg Farrow architects. 6 Q There is an Exhibit 4 that is attached in 7 Exhibit 145, the Ezralow SP-12? 8 A Okay. 9 Q And I would like to -- 10 Do you know who prepared this Exhibit 4 that 11 is attached in Exhibit 145? 12 A I do not. If I had to guess, it would be 13 Ezralow and their architects. 14 Q They gave you that chart to incorporate into 15 this document? 16 A Correct 17 Q I see. 18 Do you know when it was prepared? 19 A I'm guessing sometime before March. 20 Q I would also like to rum your attention to -- 21 there is a couple site -plan renderings. 22 A Uh-huh. 23 Q And these site -plan renderings in 145, they 24 differ from the site -plan renderings contained in 144? 25. A Okay. 47 1 Q And I would like to know how -- who prepared 2 the site -plan renderings that is attached as Exhibit 3 3 to Exhibit 145, who prepared those? 4 A To my knowledge Greenberg Farrow prepared 5 Exhibit 3 and Exhibit 145. 6 Q And it was Ezralow that told you to 7 incorporate those site plans into the their SP-12? 8 A Correct. 9 Q Do you know when that occurred? 10 A Prior to March, probably. 11 Q How long did EDAW work on SP-12 from the time 12 that =- Ezralow came in, I believe, in September of '99? 13 A Correct 14 Q How long did it take to prepare or revise the 15 new SP-12 which is marked as Exhibit 145? 16 A Once we received all the information, that was 17 probably a week just mainly incorporating the 18 information. 19 Q And this was information -- 20 A And this was provided site plans, revised 21 infrastructure plans, which would be sewer, water, storm 22 drain. 23 Q And these were all plans? 24 A Design guidelines. 25 Q And these were prepared by Ezralow's 48 12 (Pages 45 to 48) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 independent contractors and given to you through 1 Beach. 2 Ezmlow; is that correct? 2 And your familiar with this document? 3 A Correct, that's correct- 3 A I am. 4 Q The City never gave you any of these 4 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 146 was marked 5 exhibit — any of the illustrious conceptual site plans 5 for identification by the court 6 attached as Exhibit 3 in Exhibit 145; is that correct? 6 reporter and is attached.) 7 A That's correct. 7 BY MR. COHEN: 8 Q And the City didn't provide you the chart that 8 Q And how are you familiar with it? 9 is attached as Exhibit 4 to Exhibit 145; is that 9 A I assisted in preparing it. 10 correct? 10 Q What is that document? 11 A That's correct. 11 A It's a document that takes the goals and 12 Q That all came from Ezralow; is that correct? 12 policies of the general plan and provides statements on 13 A That's correct. I know Ezralow did have 13 how the specific plan is consistent with those goals and 14 discussions independent with — independently of the 14 policies 15 EDAW with the City in developing a lot of the conceptual 15 Q So, the goals and policies that set forth in 16 site plans But all of my plans came directly usually. 16 the SP-12 — or is the SP-13 this document? 17 through Scott or someone from Scott's office- 17 A The goals and policies that are set forth in 18 Q And preparing the SP-12 and SP-13, your sole 18 the City's general plan. 19 direction would come from Ezralow and primarily Scott? 19 Q I see. 20 A With respect to the initial drafts of the 20 A And the different elements of the general plan 21 specific plan, once we did the general plan consistency 21 are stated. And then statements on how the SP-12 or 22 which is an appendix to the specific plan, the City 22 SP-13 are consistent with the City's goals and policies 23 provided comments on that and EDAW did incorporate the 23 are provided in italics text. 24 City's comments without involvement through Ezralow and 24 Q I see. 25 then that was submitted back to the City. 25 So, the general plan, that's the City's plate 49 1 51 i Q Oh, I see. Well, what — what are you talking 1 am I correct? 2 about specifically? 2 A That's correct. 3 A The general plan consistency is another 3 Q The Specific Plan 12 and 13 that was Ezralow's 4 document that EDAW prepared which is an appendix to the 4 plan to the City; is that correct? 5 specific plan._ 5 A Their proposal to the City. 6 Q And when was this prepared? 6 Q Ultimately it's a City plan once it ultimately 7 A The initial draft was prepared in May. 7 becomes adopted only? 8 Q May 2000? 8 A Once it becomes adopted, it is the City's 9 A Correct And we provided a disk and a hard 9 plan. And I mean, it's a fine line. At some point 10 copy to the City once we incorporated the revisions 10 Enslow did provide a later document of the last draft 11 And the City, they may have made the final revisions to 11 of the specific plan to the City. And the City did 12 this document before it went to the planning 12 incorporate their modifications into that document 13 commission, Because in going through my records,1 13 before it went to the planning commission. 14 notice the same general plan consistency that was 14 So, I guess — my guess would be at that point 15 attached to the specific plan that went to the planning 15 when the City started editing Ezralow's plan and 16 commission In Joy and they did re -date the document 16 incorporating their own edits and changes and desires 17 June lltft = 17 into that plan, I would say at that point it was the t 8 Q I see. 18 City's specific plan, even though it may have not been 19 A Frvv the May daft 19 yet adopted. 20 Q Okay. I would like to mark for identification 20 Q When did that occur? 21 as Exhibit 146 a document that will -- it's an 21 A It's my understanding that it occurred in June 22 Appendix B? 22 before it went to the planning commission. 23 A Correct. 23 MR. WATSON: You want to take a real quick break. 24 Q With a cover letter from EDAW that says 24 (Recess taken.) 25- General Plan Consistency for the Crossing at Huntington 25 MR. CORN: Let's go back on the record. I would 50 1 52 13 (Pages 49 to 52) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 I like to go over Exhibit 146 a little bit and just get a 2 more detailed understanding of what this document is. 3 Q This document which is an Appendix B, and is 4 this attached to SP-13? 5 A Correct, it is. 6 Q Now, the document is prepared by the City; is 7 that correct? 8 A EDAW, and then submitted to the City for their 9 comments. 10 Q I see. l i A And it was submitted on May 30th which had 12 incorporated comments from a prior earlier May 13 submittal, and the City provided comments on May 25th. 14 So, the final draft was submitted on May 30th which was 15 letters submitted in a computer version. I'm not aware 16 of if subsequent changes were made to the May 30th 17 document, but the document that is in the staff report 18 or the specific plan that was submitted to the planning 19 commission is dated June 8th. 20 Q June 8th. 21 So, you don't know if our Exhibit 146 is the 22 final one? 23 A Final one or not. 24 Q Okay. 25 Now, when EDAW submitted it to the City that 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 was on behalf of Ezralow; is that correct? A That's correct. Q And what this Appendix B does, it compares what is set forth in the specific plan to the requirements that are laid out in the general plan; am I correct on that? A Yes, that's pretty correct. Q Well, how? Can you elaborate on that? A It's specifically if we wanted to take -- an example, it goes through the different elements. The fast element being the land use element of the general plan. And it states a policy that is included in the City Land Use element, which is to establish -- and it goes to the development uses to -support the needs and reflects the economic demands for the City's residents and investors. And then there is a couple of paragraphs which respond to how the specific plan is consistent with or will help achieve that policy that's in the City's general play Q I see. So, the input that -- well, strike that. Basically what this is, this Appendix B is to make sure that the specific plan is consistent with the general plan? 54 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 This consistency plan was created,.Appendix B? 2 A Correct 3 Q And then, I guess, the next step will be when 4 the final site plan is created? 5 A Correct 6 Q There is going to be some sort of review 7 process? 8 A Correct. 9 Q To make sure that it conforms to the specific 10 plan? 11 A That's correct. 1z Q And it goes in sort of like tiers? 13 A Tiers, that is correct. 14 Q And so the City's input then on the Appendix B 15 would just be to the extent that it conforms to their 16 general plan; is that correct? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q Who created the Italian Village Theme, do you 19 know? 20 A I don't know. 21 Q Do you know what I'm talking about? 22 A I do know what you are calling about. 23 Q But you don't know if that came from Ezralow 24 or — 25 A From Greenberg Farrow, or the City. LV 1 ' Q You would presume that it came from Ezralow or 2 Greenberg Farrow? 3 A I would presume that. 4 Q Now, what other — was this the extent of the 5 input that the City had in regard to the SP-13 this 6 Appendix B that is attached as Exhibit 146? 7 A That was the extent of their input on 8 Appendix B, but they did have input on the specific plan 9 text itself as well as Appendix C, which are the signage 10 standards. I 1 Q I see. 12 A So, they had input on the entire document. 13 Q Once it was prepared, they then gave a review 14 of it? 15 A That's correct, they gave a review and made 16 comments. And in particular at one meeting that I was 17 at, they had asked for a legislative draft to understand 18 the specific changes that Ezralow had made to the prior 19 Macerich specific plan. 20 Q They asked what? 21 A They asked for a legislative draft which 22 basically they wanted to see the edits that had been 23 made by Ezralow to the original Macerich specific plan. 24 Q I see. 25 They wanted to see how it changed? .Y. 14 (Pages 53 to 56) JILIO St ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 A How it changed, so strike -out text, and you 1 2 know, highlight new text. 2 3 Q I see. 3 4 Do you have a copy of that? 4 5 A Of the legislative draft, yes, it's May 13th. 5 6 MR. COHEN: I would like to mark for identification 6 7 as Exhibit 147, I guess we will call this the 7 8 legislative draft of SP-13. 8 9 . (Plaintiffs Exhibit 147 was marked 9 10 for identification by the court 10 11 reporter and is attached.) 11 12 MR. COHEN: Okay. You presented this document as 12 13 part of your production. 13 14 Q How are you familiar with this? 14 15 A It was sent to us by Ezralow, one of Scott 15 16 Dinovitz' assistants, at our request so that we would 16 17 have the most up to date Ales that the City had. At 17 18 this point, Ezralow had produced this legislative 18 19 draft. 19 20 In other words, EDAW provided them with the 20 21 latest disk that we had of the specific plan document, 21 22 the latest board disk, and they went actually through 22 23 and did the legislative draft changes. 23 24 Q They would have taken Exhibit 144 which was 24 25 the Macerich SP-12? 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 A Or the one that came after the Macerich which would have been the March, I believe. Q Exhibit 145? A Yes. Q Okay. Where is that? A I think that's one that you are holding. I think it's this one (indicating.) But is that not -- I know this one had the number actually. Q 1 see. So, this legislative draft, Exhibit 147, is just the strike -out version -- what were the strike -outs exactly, I'm still confused? A Okay. For example, it you go to Page 6, the first paragraph, the change was made to the last sentence that said the intent is to establish a visitor regional commercial shopping setting and achieve a high quality in retail and entertainment design. The prior sentence, the prior way, the intent was to establish a public -private partnership to enable the creation of a community center setting and achievement. So, the strike -out is the old text that was changed, and the new text is underlined to just show specifically how the edit was made. Q Who made these changes? A Ezralow made these changes. 58 Q Who requested that those changes be made, who's language is that, the changes? A I don't know if it is the City's language or if it was Ezralow's language. The changes » at this point I was not involved In this legislative draft which is why I requested a copy of it be sent to me. So, it was Scott worsting with the City, and I couldn't tell you specifically if Jane James it the City requested these language changes, or if Ezralow did those changes. Q On their own? A On their own. Q I see now. Why weren't you involved in this 147? A The turnaround time. It was a quick turnaround time, and it was in the middle of other commitments, deadline commitments that I had. And we couldn't turn it around as quickly as Ezralow needed it to be turned around. Q Now, were these changes just part of the meetings, the various meetings? A Yes,1 believe, and the meetings that we have to get into. Q So, all the changes that were between then SP-12 and at least —well, but I guess 147, Exhibit 147 59 1 probably had a couple of changes after that? 2 A Definitely. But, yes, theft was subsequent 3 changes to the May 22nd, 2000 document before it went to 4 the planning commission June 7th, 2000. And I believe 5 that those subsequent changes were made at that point by 6 the City. 7 Q Okay. 8 A From May to June. So, from March 20th, 2000, 9 to the May 22nd, 2000 the legislative changes that were 10 made by Ezralow and/or the City were done without EDAW's 11 involvement. 12 Q I see. 13 Originally EDAW had, I guess, on a disk the 14 format -- had the specific plan on a disk. is that 15 correct? 16 A That one, uh-hub. And this is on the zip disk 17 that I'm giving you a copy of, it's on the specific plan 18 March 2, 2000. 19 Q And that's Exhibit 145? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q Did EDAW have also a SP-13? 22 A We do not have this version on disk, no. 23 Q The strike -out version you are saying? 24 A The legislative — 25 Q The 147? 60 15. (Pages 57 to 60) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 A That is correct. 2 Q But did EDAW help author, or did EDAW author 3 SP-13 when it became the new number SP-13? 4 A No, because 1 think what I'm seeing here is 5 SP-12. Between March and May is where I see the new 6 number. And we did not author or produce any of the 7 changes in this, with the exception that we provided 8 some insert language with respect to CEQA and this 9 insert language is here. 10 And that was in a transmittal. That insert 11 language would have been our input into SP-13, and it 12 was related to CEQA 13 Q Do you know if this was incorporated, this 14 insert language? 15 A I believe it was. 16 Q Okay. 17 1 would like to mark for identification just 18 so we have it, as 148, a two -page document, and we will 19 entitle it, CEQA inserts for SP-13. And this is a 20 document that you just provided me? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Can you explain it again, Exhibit 148? 23 A It's inserts related to the CEQA clearance and 24 specifically reference to Public Resource Code Section 25 210833 that we discussed previously, and where that 61 )AYNA MORGAN, 08.07..00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 A And that was faxed to the City on — 2 Q (:would like to mark for identification a five 3 page document that was handed to me. And it has a cover 4 sheet by EDAW that says to Jane James. It's dated — 5 the second page is dated April 26, 2000. And it's in 6 regard to the CEQA clearance for the Crossing at 7 Huntington Beach Redevelopment, Specific Plan. 8 This is a document that you presented for 9 Ezralow; is that correct? 10 A Yes, and the City. It was actually requested 11 at a meeting that I believe that we had with the City 12 and Ezralow. And as a follow-up to that meeting, we 13 prepared the document or the letter. 14 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 149 was marked 15 for identification by the matt 16 reporter and is attached.) 17 BY MR. COHEN- 18 Q But this was prepared under the service 19 contract that you had with Ezralow? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q And this is - this letter incorporated the 22 understanding of both Ezralow and the City in regard to 23 an EIR? 24 A That's correct. 25 Q We're going to mark for identification the- 63 I would be appropriate in the specific plan, within what 1 April 26, 2000 letter from EDAW to Jane James of the 2 sections that would be appropriate. 2 City of Huntington Beach as 149. 3 The other input that we would have had on this 3 1 would like to go to Exhibit 141 which is the 4 May 22nd, 2000, would have been the GP consistency which 4 notice of deposition? 5 was actually toward the end of May. So, I don't believe 5 A Okay. 6 that it got incorporated until June. 6 Q And what I'm going to do is, in the notice of 7 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 148 was marked 7 deposition you were requested, and in the subpoena, to 8 for identification by the court 8 produce certain documents and you did so today. And we 9 reporter and is attached.) 9 actually have attached several of them as exhibits so 10 BY MR. COHEN: 10 far. And you also provided me a zip drive. I 1 Q Between May and June was EDAW still providing 11 And I also see here a memorandum, and that 12 services for Ezralow? 12 just lists out what is on the zip drive; is that 13 A Yes, we were. 13 correct? 14 Q And so — __ 14 A That's correct: 15 A. I believe the main services that we provided 15 Q I'm going to mark for identification as 16 at that time were the general plan consistency. 16 Exhibit 150 an EDAW memorandum dated August 2, 2000, 17 Q And what else? 17 from Alia Hokuki to Jayna Morgan. 18 A The environmentaL- 18 How do you pronounce the name? 19 Q The additional inserts? 19 • A Alia. 20 A The additional inserts. And we I betieve, 20 Q Hokuki. 21 also prepared a letter which is dated — well, it was 21 And what is that memorandum? 22 faxed on May the 4th. It's dated April the 27tb, and 22 A This is a memorandum of the items that we 23 that was a more detailed explanation of the appropriate 23 placed on the zip disk There are four folders of the 24 CEQA clearance for this specific plan. 24 project, CEQA documents correspondence, meeting minutes 25 Q I see, 25 and then the specific plans: 62 64 16 (Pages 61 to 64) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00- BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (PtaietiRs Exhibit 150 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached.) MIL COHEN: All right. Q And the documents that are on the zip drive, how are those maintained by EDAW? A They are on a project file within our hard drive, our network system, and they are maintained by job number. Q And this zip drive, the documents that are contained on the zip drive were directly pulled from the computer at EDAW; is that correct? A That's correct Q And those documents are contained in the ordinary course of business at EDAW; is that correct? A That's correct Q All the documents that you produced today or have here today, how are those maintained? A The hard copies or — Q The hard copies. A The hard copies are in a correspondence binder that we keep for each project, incoming and outgoing correspondence in the chronological order. Q And they are contained in the ordinary course of EDAW? 65 A Correct. Q I would like to go through, do you have Exhibit 1-A in front of you? A Yes, I do. Q What I'm going to do is actually attach or mark for identification as Exhibit 151, the documents that you brought today that you have described as outgoing. A Okay. Q Okay. And that's this packet right here? A With some of those being pulled and fisted as prior exhibits. MR. COH N: I want to go off the record for one second. - (Plaintiff s Exhibit 151 was marked for identification by the court reporter and is attached.) (A discussion was held off the record.) MR. COHEN: We're going to go back on the record. Q The documents that are identified in Exhibit 150 which is the memo, that refers to the zip disk that was provided? A Yes. Q We're going to go through the memo real quick 66 1 and determine which documents you actually brought a 2 hard copy of in addition to the zip disk. 3 A Okay. 4 Q Or it will be quicker to go through the ones 5 that are i,ot -- that we don't have a hard copy of. 6 Okay. 7 So, the items that we're going to talk about 8 are items that we do not have a hard copy of but are 9 included on the zip disk? 10 A Correct 11 Q What are they? 12 A The EA form under Item 1, I did not see a bard 13 copy in our outgoing correspondence. I didn't see a 14 hard copy of that But there is a copy of that on the 15 zip disk. Under the correspondence the third bullet 16 item that is Dinovitz, we have several correspondence to 17 Scott Dinovitz: I'm not sure which one that would have 18 been. 19 I would guess we have a hard copy, but I can't 20 verify it since I didn't put the zip disk together. So, 21 that would be questionable, The other one that says 22 letter to Scott Dinovitz, the one, two, three, four, 23 five — fifth bullet item down. And then the revision, 24 I'm not sure if there are hard copies printed out of 25 those as wed as the specific plan transmittal 67 I - So, the last three bullet items I could not be 2 sure. Everything in Item 3 we have hard copies of as 3 well as the copies that are on the computer. And under 4 Item 4, the first bullet item, I don't know what that 5 is. So, I don't know if we have a hard copy. But we do 6 have a general plan consistency and we have hard copies 7 of the other two bullet items. 8 Q Now, who is Alia Hokuki? 9 A She works at EDAW. She's an associate, and 10 she works under my direction. 11 Q I see. 12 And you directed her to make this memo and 13 make the zip disk? 14 A Yes, I did. I asked her to copy everything 15 off of the project file and just put it and organize it 16 in a fashion that would be easy to follow. 17 Q And she gave it to you today, and you brought 18 it here? 19 A Correct. 20 Q So, again, we're going to move back to 151 21 which we marked for identification as the outgoing 22 correspondence? 23 A Correct. Meaning those were correspondence 24 that were sent out by EDAW. 25 Q And I would like to mark for identification -- 68 17 (Pages 65 to 68) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 i would like to mark for identification as Exhibit 152, 1 2 the incoming — I presume this is incoming mail; am 1 2 3 correct on that? 3 4 A CorrecL 4 5 Q I shouldn'tsay mail, correspondence? 5 6 A CorrecL In this e-mail age, this is all 6 7 incoming. This is a staff report that was sent. This 7 8 actually goes with this. 8 9 Q We're actually on the record so you can talk 9 10 loud. Let's go off the record. 10 11 (A discussion was held off the record.) 11 12 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 152 was marked 12 13 for identification by the court 13 14 reporter and is attached.) 14 15 BY MR. COHEN: 15 16 Q In addition to the documents that you provided 16 17 in 151, Exhibit 151 and Exhibit 152, you provided 142 17 18 which would be part of the incoming mail or incoming 18 19 correspondence? 19 20 A Yes, incoming and outgoing, it was outgoing 20 21 when it was sent to Ezrnbw. And then when they sent it 21 22 back, it became incoming. 22 23 Q Okay. 23 24 143 as well is the work proposal? 24 25 A Outgoing, yea 25 IV] 1 Q And Exhibit 144? 1 2 A Is the Macerich Specific Plan. 2 3 Q Which actually -- 3 4 A It was kept in our incoming because that was 4 5 sent back to us by the City. 5 6 Q Okay. 6 7 A With comments. 7 8 Q And Exhibit 145? 8 9 A That would have been outgoing. 9 10 Q And Exhibit 146? 10 11 A Outgoing. 11 12 Q And Exhibit 147? 12 13 A Incoming. 13 14 Q Exhibit 148? _ 14 15 A Outgoing.. 15 16 Q And Exhibit 149? 16 17 A- Outgoing, 17 18 Q Okay. Let's go over Exhibit 141, the notice 18 19 of documents to produce. 19 20 A Okay. 20 21 Q Request No. 1 requests: All documents 21 22 exchanged by you and Ezralow regarding, referring or 22 23 relating to the shopping center or Burlington. 23 24 Have all of those documents been produced here 24 25 today? 25 70 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON A Yea Q And No. 2, all documents exchanged between you and Gray regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all those documents been produced here today? A Yes. Q No. 3, all documents exchanged between you and Whitman Breed regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all of those been produced today? A I have never heard of Whitman Breed. Q It's the law firm that represents Ezralow or -- that may have changed recently to Holland & Knight. MR. WATSON: My firm. THE WITNESS: Okay, yes. BY MR. COHEN: Q Did you -- how did you prepare for this deposition? A I contacted Ezralow's attorney and asked them if I needed to meet with them. And they said it was up to me if I felt comfortable not meeting with -them, I didn't need to. So, I did not meet with theme I asked them what documents I needed to produce. 71 They said everything what is in your files. And I asked -- I think that was about it. They just said "tell the truth." Q And which attorney did you speak to? A Mark Shipow. Q No. 4, all documents exchanged -- and that was the extent of your preparation? A Yeah, a phone conversation with them. Q And then getting your documents pulled together? A Yeah. I wasn't sure, hard copies and computer files, and if they are duplicative, just put everything that you have. Q All documents exchanged between you and Huntington Associates regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all those been produced? A Yea Q All documents exchanged between you and Linscott regarding, referring or relating to the Shopping Center or Burlington. Have all those documents been produced today? A Yes. Q All documents exchanged between you and Greenberg regarding, referring or relating to the 72- 18 (Pages 69 to 72) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A.Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 10 11 12 13 l4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 shopping center or Burlington. Have those been produced today? A Yes. Q What is not here — did you produce any invoices? A No. I did not. And I did not produce a copy of the traffic proposed for Unscott Law Greenspan. That wasn't something that was submitted directly to me, it was submitted to Ezralow. Q Was it part of your file? A I have the old one that was part of the Macerich file. However, all my Macerich files are in dead storage. So, I did not produce any of my old Macerich files, but the new traffic study, we did not have a copy of it in our file. That traffic study was prepared for Ezralow. Q So, the old one was produced today then? A The Macerich files. I did not file old Macerich files that were in dead storage. So, the traffic study that was prepared for Macerich was not produced. Q Okay. All documents exchanged between you and the redevelopment agency including without limitation other departments or agencies for the City of Huntington including the City Council regarding, referring or 73 relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all of those been produced? A Yes. Q All documents exchanged between you and the fire department regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all of those documents been produced? A Yes. Q No. 9, all documents exchanged between you and Bryan Ezralow regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all of those documents been produced? A Yes. Q No. 10, all documents concerning any and all discussions, including closed sessions between you and among you and Ezralow, regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all of those been produced? A Yes. Q No. 11, all documents concerning any and all discussions between and among you and Gray regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all of those been produced? A Yes. 74 1 Q All documents concerning any and all 2 discussions between you and among Whitman Breed 3 regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center 4 of Burlington. 5 Have all of those been produced? 6 A Yes. 7 Q No. 13, all documents concerning any and all 8 discussions between and among you and Huntington 9 Associates regarding, referring or relating to the 10 shopping center or Burlington. 11 Have all of those documents have been 12 produced? 13 A Yes. 14 Q 14, all documents concerning any and all 15 discussions between you and among you and Greenberg, 16 regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center 17 or Burlington. 18 Have all of those been produced? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Did you ever have any discussions directly 21 with the architects? 22 A Yes. 23 Q In regard — in substance, what were those 24 discussions about? 25 A Well, the beginning of the project back in 75 1 September we had outlined a fist of data needs. And we 2 met with Bob Bocci and discussed what types of 3 information we would need his input on for the specific 4 input, strictly the conceptual site plan. Input on the 5 design guidelines and input on the signage standard. 6 So, there were subsequent conversations with 7 him where I transmitted copies of prior design 8 guidelines and prior signage standards for him, for his 9 review and comment. 10 Q Okay. No. 15, all documents concerning any 11 and all discussions between and among you and Linscott 12 regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center 13 or Burlington. 14 Those documents have been produced? 15 A Yes. 16 Q 16, all documents concerning any and all 17 discussions between and among you and the redevelopment 18 agency regarding, referring or relating to the shopping 19 center or Burlington. 20 Have those been produced? 21 A Yes. 22 Q 17, all documents concerning any and all 23 discussions between and among you and other departments 24 or agencies for the City of Huntington Beach regarding, 25 referring or relating to the shopping center or 76 19 (Pages 73 to 76) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Burlington Have ail of those documents been produced? A Yes. Q 18, all documents concerning any and all discussions between and among you and the fire department regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington. Have all of those documents been produced? A Yes. Q 19, all documents exchanged between you and Ezralow regarding, referring or relating to redevelopment agencies's eminent domain powers. Have all of those documents been provided? A Yes. Could I ask a question? Q Yes. A If there wasn't any discussions or if there wasn't any documents, do you need me to state that, or by me saying "yes," and you see that there aren't any? Q I'm assuming that there was none. A There was none. Okay. So, I don't need to say no there was no — that's right. Q But on 19, I want to ask you a couple of questions about that. Have you had any discussions regarding any eminent domain action that the City might do in regard 77 to the redevelopment at this mall? A No. The discussions I recall were when Macerich was involved, and there was a discussion about the City's redevelopment agency possibly acting as an applicant in conjunction with Macerich on -- I believe, the issue was, it came up when they were trying to get signatures from Montgomery Wards. And at that point in one meeting, I believe someone at the City was going to check and see if they could sign the application, the redevelopment department could sign the application on behalf of Montgomery Wards. Q And what was the result of that? A I don't know; I don't recall. I wasn't really involved in the applications. Q And that would be an application for the SP-12? A Correct. And I believe that Macerich's architect prepared the application. I know that they prepared the applications for Macerich that was Feola and Archuleta. Q Who prepared the applications for the Ezralow S P-13? 24 A I believe it was Greenberg Farrow, but it 25 could have been Ezralow themselves. 78 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON I Q But it was not EDAW? 2 A It was not EDAW, am 3 Q Is it your understanding that Montgomery Wards 4 would have to also sign the application? 5 A Because I believe they were an owner. 6 Q And can you elaborate on that? 7 A When there is an application for any type of 8 development that would involve property owned by someone 9 else — for example, if the mail owned a portion of the 10 property, it takes — if they are applying for I 1 something, that would also cover someone else's property 12 that is under someone else's ownership, they would also 13 need to sign the application. 14 Q And that's just a particular code or 15 municipal — l6 A Code requirement 17 Q Of the City of Huntington Beach, that's 18 correct? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Do you know if that was done in regard to the 21 Ezralow specific plan? 22 A I do not. 23 Q Would anyone at EDAW have any knowledge of 24 that? 25 You would be the sole person that would have 79 1 knowledge of that application? 2 A Yes. 3 Q No. 20, all documents exchanged between you 4 and Gray regarding, referring or relating to the 5 redevelopment agency's eminent domain powers? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Did you ever have any discussions with Ezralow 8 regarding their eminent domain powers? 9 A No. 10 Q Does EDAW provide any services to a client in 11 regard to enlisting the City's, you know, help in 12 getting an eminent domain action? 13 A I never have on any of my other projects 14 personally. It's not to say that someone else at EDAW, 15 maybe one of our other offices. I'm not aware of 16 anybody at our Irvine office that has ever provided that 17 type of information to a client. 18 Q It's not just one of the types of service that 19 EDAW does? 20 A Correct. 21 Q How many offices does EDAW have? 22 A 11. 23 Q 11 throughout the country or all in Southern 24 California? 25 A Throughout the country. Well — and, 80 20 (Pages 77 to 80) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A_ Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 actually, they are worldwide. I could send you a 1 2 brochure; if you would like. 2 3 Q Okay. 3 4 A I knew that when I was a full-time employee. 4 5 But now that I'm an IC, I don't have to know the 5 6 technical details. 6 7 Q Do you know of any companies or consultants 7 8 that do provide a service of how a developer could work 8 9 with the City in getting them to do an eminent domain 9 10 action? 10 11 A I don't. 11 12 Q Or a combination? 12 13 A I don't. I would think law firms maybe. 13 14 Q It's possible. 14 15 A That would be my guess. 15 16 Q ' We're on No. 21. Okay. 16 17 All documents exchanged between you and 17 18 Whitman Breed regarding, referring or relating to the 18 19 redevelopment agency's eminent domain powers? 19 20 A Yes. 20 21 Q And there are no documents responsive to this. 21 22 request? 22 23 A No. 23 24 Q No. 22, all documents concerning any and all 24 25 discussions between and among you and Ezralow regarding, 25 81 1 referring or relating to redevelopment agency's eminent I 1 2 domain powers. 2 3 Again, there is no documents responsive to 3 4 this request? 4 5 A No. 5 6 Q Actually I can ask whether there are any 6 7 documents -- I mean -- 7 8 A I can answer if there is no documents? 8 9 Q Yes. 9 10 A Okay. 10 11 Q No. 23, all documents concerning any and all 11 12 discussions between and among you and Gray regarding 12 13 referring or relating to redevelopment agency's eminent 13 14 domain powers? 14 15 A There are no documents 15 16 Q Okay. No. 24, all documents concerning any 16 17 and all discussions between and among you and Whitman 17 18 Breed regarding, referring or relating to the 18 19 redevelopment agency's eminent domain powers? 19 20 A There are no documents 20 21 Q No. 25, all documents concerning any and all 21 22 meetings held between and among Ezralow regarding, 22 23 referring or relating to the shopping center or 23 24 Burlington? 24 25 A Yes, there are meeting minutes. 25 82 Q You have those responsive to that? A Yes. Q There are — are there meeting minutes in April, December and January, do you know offhand or? A I believe there are — than was meeting minutes produced in December, January, February and April. The February meeting was with OCTA and I'm looking at Exhibit 150. Q What is OCTA? A Orange County Transit Authority. Q Okay. No. 26, all documents concerning any and all discussions between you and Ezralow regarding, referring or relating to Ezralow entering into an honor of participation agreement with the redevelopment agency in connection with redevelopment of the shopping center. A Yes. I believe that was discussed in meek. Meanhk& we would have it in the meeting minutes. Q Would there be any other documents responsive to this, other than the meeting minutes? A No. " Q All videotapes regarding, referring or relating to a conceptual redevelopment of the shopping center. fig] A I'm not aware of any videotapes. Q 28, all documents depicting a redeveloped shopping center including without limitation or promotional or advertising material regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center. Are there any — well, there are documents that are responsive to that? A The specific plan. Q The specific plan. Are you aware of any other documents? A No. Q Are you aware of any marketing efforts that Ezralow or the City has done with regard to the shopping center, the redevelopment of the shopping center? A I'm not aware of any. Q 29, all documents regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington, including without limitation, documents depicting a conceptual design of a redeveloped shopping center. Are there any documents? A Specific plan, I would — Q But the only documents that would be responsive to that, to actually 28 and 29, would be the specific plans themselves? A Yes.. 84 21 (Pages 81 to 84) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Q On No. 18, were there any discussions between 1 2 you, or EDAW, and the fire department regarding the 2 3 center? 3 4 A Only at the meetings that we had in the 4 5 meeting minutes, but not specific discussions between 5 6 as. 6 7 Q And No. 10, all documents concerning any and 7 8 all discussions including the closed sessions between 8 9 and among you and Ezralow. 9 10 Were you -- was EDAW ever involved in any of 10 11 the closed session meetings? 11 12 A I'm not sure. We have had meetings just with 12 13 the project team. Would that be referred to as a closed 13 14 session? 14 15 Q Did they tell you that it was a closed 15 16 session? 16 17 A No. It was like a team meeting. 17 18 Q The project team is a team comprised of the 18 19 City? 19 20 A Actually, the initial meetings that we had, 20 21 like a kick off meeting, the City was not involved. 21 22 That was just with the consultants. I think it took 22 23 place at Greenberg Farrow's offices, and that was Doug 23 24 Gray and Scott Dinovitz and Bob BuccL 24 '_5 But I was never in a meeting where it was 25 85 1 stated that it was a closed -session meeting. 1 2 Q When did that meeting take place? 2 3 A I believe that one took place in January. I 3 4 think it was December or January, I'm not sure. Yeah, 4 5 January 21st, the project team meeting. And the meeting 5 6 minutes always list who the attendings are. 6 7 Q Let me go over my meeting minutes. 7 8 A Here is one from December 2nd. 8 9 Q Uh-huh, yeah. 9 10 A Did you want that one? 10 1 1 Q Let's keep that there. 11 12 A Okay. 12 13 Q And I got this. I would like to mark for 13 14 identification as Exhibit 153, meetin_ g minutes of 14 15 December 2, 199%. 15 16 Who prepared these meeting minutes? 16 17 A Myself and Alla HokukL 17 18 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 153 was marked 18 19 for identification by the court 19 20 reporter and is attached.) 20 21 MR. COHEN: Okay. 21 22 Q Was this the first meeting that you had? 22 23 A With the team, yes; after the initial 23 24 interview we had with Ezralow. 24 25 Q And so the initial interview would have been 25 86 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON in September of 99; is that correct? A Yes. Q Between September '99 and December 2, 1999, were there any other meetings? A No, none that I'm aware of. Q What work did EDAW do between September 1999 and December 2, 1999? A I think we transmitted copies of the most recent Macerich specific plan and City comments to the architects and Ezralow, and we provided contacts of who worked on the Macerich sewer, water and storm drain, the traffic report, and the shared parking analysis. Q And when you are working with the architects and Ezralow, that was incorporating the new conceptual site plans into the SP-12 or SP-13? A But that came after December. I think they were — my understanding is that they were still working on various site plans probably from the time of September through December. Q Okay. Were you in contact with anyone from the City between September 199 and December 2, 1999 in regard to the shopping center, of course? A Jane James from the City. Q How many times — did you ever meet with her 87 during that period of time? A No, not by myself, just talked to her on the phone. Q How many telephone conversations did you have? A Two or three. Q And what was the substance of the telephone conversations? A Just to tell her that we were selected by them, and that we were providing them with the latest copy. And to verify that the latest copy that we were providing was the same latest copy that she had in her Ries, and it had been several months since the Macerich project had been worked on. And just to kind of review what the outstanding issues were with her when the Macerich project was put on hold and had stopped. Q And that was the automotive issue from Montgomery Wards. Any other issues? A The design, how we were going to handle when the design guidelines, or when the facades of Montgomery Wards, Burlington and Mervyn's would be upgraded to match the rest of the mall; what that trigger would be. Q Is that the amortization schedule? A Yes. That was something that was still up in 88 22 (Pages 85 to 88) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.0d BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 the air at the time that the Macerich project was put 00 2 bold. 3 Q What was the City's position on the 4 amortization schedule? 5 A They just thought that one needed to be done, 6 and they were in the process of doing that. The only 7 other issue that I didn't mention before that was 8 outstanding, was the water podding under 100 year 9 flood. How much ponding would be allowed in the parking 10 lot. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 So, this was something that was being discussed with the Public Works Department and Macerich and their civil engineers Hall and Foreman. Q Was it the City's position that they didn't want any ponding, that they wanted — A No, they were going to allow a certain depth of ponding. I think it can be 12 inches, and I think Macerich was coming up with something greater than 12 inches. Q I see. 22 23 SP -- Do you know what is provided for now? Is there going to be any ponding in the new 24 A In the new SP, I don't know. I would have to 25 look that up. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 89 Q Was Burlington ever mentioned during the time period of September 1999 and December 2, 1999 in your telephone conversations with Jane James? A No. Q What about Montgomery Wards? A No. Q Well, maybe the automotive? A Well, Montgomery Wards wasn't specifically mentioned, and it relates to the — it was more the uses The City didn't want certain fast food drive-thm's They were opposed to, at that time, automotive. So, it was kind of more discussed in the terms,. of uses that they didn't want to allow as a permitted use in this specific plan and not specifically any of the tenants or existing folks that were there. Q- Does EDAW provide a function of trying to convince the City to, let's say, use drive-thru's — let's say that the developer wants like a specific type of use or to be allowed to use something specific on the property, does EDAW provide any service to try to convince or encourage the City to permit those uses? A Not really. It's more so left up to the applicant because I have always viewed EDAW as an extension of the City staff, especially with the all 1 environmental work that they do with as More of oar 2 contracts have been directly with the City than with 3 applicants 4 So, if we had to advocate something, I would 5 be advocating to the developer why the City wouldn't 6 want that particular use versos advocating to the City 7 why they should consider that particular use. 8 Q Even though, at least in this case, you said 9 EDAW was retained as the agent of Ezralow? 10 A Yes, I have a long-standing working 11 relationship with the City. And this is the first 12 contract that I have ever had with Ezndow. 13 Q In development of specific plans, is it 14 common — it's common that the developer, the owner of 15 the property is the applicant — 16 A That's — 17 Q — is that correct? 18 A Well, it could be the owner of the property or 19 it could be a City agency. 20 Q In your experience, what is more common? 21 A With the specific plans that I have worked on, 22 it's typically been the owner of the property. The 23 specific plans that I have worked on have all ben raw 24 land and not developed land. So, that would be another 25 distinction. I think when the City or its agendes get . 91 involved is when there is redevelops euL That is probably when it's more common to see the City as an applicant. Q But in this case Ezralow was the applicant? A nails correct, it's my understanding. Q okay: At the December — let's move to the 8 December 2, 1999 meeting? 9 A Okay. 10 Q Who was present? 11 A Scott Dhmwkz, and myself, Alfa Hokaki, Carey 12 .Covington who Is so longer with EDAW, but was a staff 13 member at that time, Dick Bowman from Hall and Foreman, 14 Bob Baed or Robert Bacci. And then Kyle Mayberry with 15 Linscott•Law Greenspan. 16 Q Do you know how long this meeting was? 17 A I think It was an hoar, boar and a balE 18 Q Where did it take place? 19 A At Greenberg Farrow's offices. 20 Q Who set up this meeting? 21 A Scott Dhwvitz 22 Q Would he have called you and the architects 23 and then the City personally to have this meeting, or 24 did you arrange — 25 A I think be called and arranged the meeting. 92 23 (Pages 89 to 92) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Q What was the purpose of this meeting? 2 A To just discuss over all the process, and 3 where the project was left off before, and what point in 4 time Ezralow's proposal was, and how they thought the 5 process would move forward. What EDAW would need in 6 order to generate a revised or updated specific plan. 7 Q Who specifically was part of the project 8 team? It's referred to in the back of Page 3, center, 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 crossing project team? A Everybody in attendance. And then I would also consider Jane James of the City part of the project team. And as you can see on the attached contact list, there are a lot of other members in the project team that were contacts. But Jane was really our key contact at the City. Q On No. 3 it says the CUP, it's -- bullet item under Section 1, it says the CUP will include three alternative plans? A Right. Q Could you comment on that? A As I recall, at that time the Ezralow Company was intending to apply for a CUP as Macerich had done concurrent with the specific plan. And because they didn't have any type of resolution on what that site plan would be, that they could apply for — they were 93 discussing having multiple alternatives for their CUP application. Q I see. Now, who wanted to have alternative plans, was it Ezralow that wanted to have these plans? A Yeah, I think that it was their suggestion. That's how they were going to proceed at that time. Q Did the City ever say that they did not want Burlington Coat Factory -- A No. Q -- in any of these meetings? A No. They just said they wanted them all to match. They wanted, them all to look the same. MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record for one quick second:. (A discussion was held off the record.). MR..COHEN: We're back on the record. Q So, we left off, that to your knowledge -- or you don't remember the City ever telling Ezralow that Burlington Coat Factory would not remain in the mall? A No. Q Did Ezralow ever discuss with you, EDAW, that it didn't want to include Burlington in the shopping center? A No. 94 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 Q I guess at the December 2 meeting, there was 2 still contemplation that there would be the need for a 3 Conditional Use Permit? 4 A Yes, similar to what Macerich had done, I 5 think. At that point, what my understanding is, was 6 that they, being Ezralow, had just recently reviewed the 7 specific plan and applications from Macerich. And at 8 that point were trying to proceed in the same fashion. 9 Q No definitive change -- you don't know if they 10 are going to have to do a CUP or site plan; am I correct 11 on that? 12 A I don't know which one they will need to do. 13 I know that they will need to submit a definitive site 14 plan. I don't know if that site plan will require a CUP 15 or just a site plan review. 16 Q Is EDAW still involved in this project, or are 17 your services pretty much completed? 18 A I think our services are pretty much 19 completed. I know there is a public hearing this 20 evening, and we haven't been asked to attend that public 21 hearing. 22 Q Were you asked to attend the previous public 23 hearings? 24 A No, we weren't, 25 Q Who would normally ask you to attend, would '95 1 that be the developer? 2 A Or the City, either one. If they felt that 3 there was — if I had to comment on why, probably the 4 specific plan at this point was really a City document. 5 And I believe that City stag felt that they could 6 answer any questions of the decision maker that may have 7 come up on the specific plan. 8 And the environmental analysis was pretty 9 straightforward as well because there was no definitive 10 site plan as part of the actions. There was no site 11 specific environmental analysis don. When I'm asked by 12 City stay); it's based on some specific site -analysis 13 that I have done. 14 Q They want to ask you specific questions? 15 A Relating to my CEQA conclusions or my 16 environmental conclusions. 17 Q On the second page, it says that the project 18 will be completed in one phase. 19 Could you give -- can you discuss what this 20 means? 21 A Well, as I understand it, at that point in 22 time, they were anticipating the backbone infrastructure 23 being installed. When I say "backbone infrastructure," 24 again the water, sewer, storm drainage, all being 25 completed 96- 24 (Pages 93 to 96) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A.Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 And the redevelopment of the main portion of 1 1999 letter? 2 the mall all being completed at the same sequence rather 2 A Correct. 3 than trying to do half of it at one point in time and 3 Q We will discuss that in a second. 4 another half at another point in time. 4 A Okay. 5 Q Okay. The Section 2, it says next step in 5 Q Okay. 6 actions. 6 Now, between December 2, 1999 and January 21, 7 And basically a couple bullet points on what 7 2000, did you have any meetings with the City? 8 EDAW needed to do? 8 A No, or any City agency. I do not think so. 9 A Right. '9 Q What was your response to my question? 10 Q And these were — can you talk about that? 10 Did you have any telephone conversations 1 i How did it come about that EDAW was required I 1 between the December 2 meeting and January 21? 12 to do more work? 12 A I'm sure I had telephone conversations; I 13 A Well, with respect to verifying if the 13 can't recall the substance of those. 14 previous CEQA document would be still applicable. At 14 Q And that would be with Jane James? 15 that point in time, we really didn't have a site plan. 15 A Just to update her on the status and what was 16 And I think they were asking as to just review the prior 16 discussed through the December 2nd meeting. And I 17 CEQA docameat that had been done for Macerich and their 17 believe there was a meeting with OCTA that occurred 18 CUP, and determine if that approach would still be 18 subsequent to December 2nd, but prior to January 21st. 19 applicable. 19 Q But — 20 As I recall, they were way under. I think 20 A I did not attend that meeting. 21 Macerich at one point had 1,000,000 square feet oll J 21 Q Do you know who attended that meeting? 22 development I think they were at 950-. So, off the 22 A Alifa Hokuki and Scott Dmovitz, and a 23 top of my bead, I had given an answer that I thought 23 representative from Greenberg Farrow. And that was 24 that the CEQA document, EIR's use of the prior general 24 specifically to go over the bus stop issues 25 plan, the EIR would still be applicable. And that It 25 Q Did you have any in -person meeting with anyone* 97 99 1 would still be dependent on their finalization of a site 1 from Ezralow from December 199 and January 21? 2 plan or a CUP application. 2 A No. 3 That would be able to tell me if I could use 3 Q And when I say "you," l mean EDAW. 4 the same initial study. And the mitigated negative 4 And I guess we have to — except the OCTA 5 declaration was done for my revision, or — if that 5 meeting? 6 would need to be revised — that is the extent of 6 A Right: 7 follow-up on the first ballet. 7 Q But aside from that, there was no other — 8 Q Was that — and that was a City concern; is 8 A None that I can recaIL 9 that correct? 9 Q — that you have met with Scott Dinovitz in 10 A I think it was both Ezrabw and the City. And 10 person? 11 then the meeting — Ezralow had requested that we 11 A No, none that —like none that I can recall. 12 schedule a meeting witit OCTA, which is the Transit 12 Q Did you have any telephone conversations with 13 Authority, through the City. The contact at the City is 13 him? 14 Terry Elliot. She's with the Public Works Department. 14 A Yes, I'm sore.. 15 The meeting would be on discussing the 15 Q Approximately how many? 16 possibility of eliminating some of the bus stops along 16 A Couple: 17 Edinger. And possibly bring the bus stops that are 17 Q During the period of December199 through 18 outside on Edinger into the mall, and that meeting was 18 January 21, 2000, was EDAW preparing the SP-12, 19 set w 19 Exhibit 145? 20. And then preparing a list of items needed to 20 A We may have made some minor revisions at that 21 complete the specific plan revision was the next bullet 21 point We may have began, but no major changes were 22 item which I believe we did prepare a letter on 22 being done at that time because a lot of information was 23 December 7th as a follow-up, yeah, to outline the 23 outstanding from Ezralow. 24 different items that were needed for that 24 Q And I would like to mark as Exhibit 154 the 25-- Q And you are referring to the December 7th, 25 January 21, 2000 meeting minutes of the Huntington 98 1 100 25 (Pages 97 to 100) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company-'800.649.8787 - 1 Center Crossing. 1 2 Do you know who came up with the name 2 3 Huntington Center Crossing? 3 4 A I'm guessing Ezralow, but I don't know. 4 5 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 154 was marked 5 6 for identification by the court 6 7 reporter and is attached.) 7 8 MR. COHEN: Here. You can have a copy of it. 8 9 Q Who prepared this? 9 10 Are you familiar with this document, 10 11 January 21, 2000-meeting minutes? 11 12 A Yes, I am. 12 13 Q How are you familiar with it? 13 14 A I assisted in preparing it. 14 15 Q You assisted in preparing it? 15 16 A Yea 16 17 Q And who else prepared it? 17 18 A Alia HokukL She actually attended this 18 19 meeting. I did not attend this meeting. 19 20 Q Did she report back to you though on it? 20 21 A Yes, she reported back to me, and I reviewed 21 22 the minutes and possibly made minor edits. 22 23 Q Who tells you to make these meeting minutes? 23 24 A We had made them per City staffs request 24 25 during the Macerich project. And I think it was just a 25 101 1 carry-over that we continued to do the meeting minutes I 1 2 once Ezralow got involved. 2 3 Q Do you know where this meeting took place? 3 4 A At the City of Huntington Beach. 4 5 Q Do you know why it took place there as opposed 5 6 to GFA or Greenberg Farrow? 6 7 A Because when — I think the City is involved 7 8 with meetings with applicants, that it's —just I think 8 9 it's their standard policy that they take place at City 9 10 Hall unless it's an off -site meeting, and they are going 10 11 somewhere to specifically look at a project site. 11 12 Q On that person that we were talking about 12 13 was Fauland Herb, F-a-u-l-a-n-d? 13 14 A Yeah, I know Herb. He's -with the planning 14 15 department 15 16 Q Do you know who called this meeting? 16 17 A I believe it was again Scott Dmovitz and 17 18 possibly the City to check on the status. 18 19 Q Were these — how were the minutes taken, just 19 20 by shorthand? 20 21 A Yes. 21 22 Q There were no tape recorders? 22 23 A No. 23 24 Q Or videotapes? 24 25 A No. 25 102 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON Q Did anyone prevent — did anyone try and tape it? A Huh-uh. Q What was the purpose of this meeting, the January 21, 2000 meeting? A Just to bring City staff up to speed with where Ezralow was, and their proper process of the specific plan and the applications, and discuss procedures and how they might move forward. Q But you were not present at this meeting? A I was not, no. I had a schedule. Q Alia Hokuki, did she take -- do you still have her handwritten notes? A I could check with her. I'm not sure if I do. Q Now, this January 21, 2000, these meeting minutes, did they just come directly from her handwritten notes? A Yes, they did. Q Did you have any discussions with anyone following -- aside from Alia Hokuki, following the January 21 meeting about the meeting? A Not that I recall, no. Q There is a section on Page 3? A Uh-huh. 103 Q That says next -step action items? A Uh-huh. Q And somebody was to do — at least -- well. Scott Dinovitz was to provide all the needed documents that were requested and the correspondence from EDAW? A Uh-huh. Q And that would be to help you prepare and assist EDAW in preparing the SP-12 or 13? A Correct. Q I will get back to that in a second. [ would like to mark for identification as Exhibit 155 -- no, you can have those — a project meeting agenda dated April 13, 2000. And it's seven page document? A Okay.. Q This was actually previously marked as an exhibit, Exhibit 13. So we will just keep that as Exhibit 13. We won't mark iL Are you familiar with this document? A Yes, I am. Q What is this document? A. This is the agenda prepared by Jane James of the City of Huntington Beach, of a meeting that took place at City Hall on the project. Q Actually, I'm going to break this up. And what I'm going to do is, I'm going to mark for 104 26 (Pages 101 to 104) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 identification as Exhibit 155 the — it's entitled 1 (Deposition proceedings concluded at 1:30 p.m.) 2 No. 9, it's the Crossings at Huntington Project Meeting 2 (Declaration under penalty of perjury attached hereto.) 3 Agenda, Administration Department. And then the actual 3 4 meeting minutes we're going to make as a separate 4 5 exhibit 5 6 So, 155, you are familiar with — you have 6 7 reviewed this document that was prepared by Jane 7 8 James; is that correct? 8 9 A Yes, I have. This is a City permit claim. 9 10 MR. COHEN:.I have a clean copy of those minute 10 11 meetings. If you got — this is a good place to stop. 11 12 Let's go off the record for a second. 12 13 (A discussion was held off the record.) 13 14 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 155 was marked 14 15 for identification by the court 15 16 reporter and is attached.) 16 17 MR. COHEN: Due to some scheduling conflicts that 17 18 we have right now where Ms. Morgan has to attend a 18 19 meeting at 2:00 in downtown, it's about 1:30 right now, 19 20 we have agreed that we will continue this deposition 20 21 until August 25, 2000. The deposition will be conducted 21 22 at the offices of EDAW. And we will commence at around 22 23 1:30 p.m. 23 24 What I will do is instruct that the court 24 25 reporter be relieved of her duties. She will prepare 25 105 1 107 1 this deposition and designate it as Volume I and will 2 then send it to Ms. Morgan at the EDAW offices. And 3 also include a self-addressed stamped envelope with it, 4 that will be addressed to our offices, the offices of 5 Tuchman & Associates. 6 Ms. Morgan will then have 30 days to review 7 and make any necessary corrections, at which time she 8 will then sign the transcript under penalty of perjury 9 and return it with the enclosed self-addressed stamped 10 envelope to the offices of Tuchman & Associates. 11 If the original is not signed, or if it's lost 12 or misplaced, then we will use a certified copy in lieu 13 of the original. And so, in which case, if you do make 14 any corrections — what you can do, you can xerox the 15 page, or you can make another letter that indicates 16 where your corrections were made, and then send it to 17 us. 18 So, a certified copy can be used in lieu of 19 the original, only on the condition that the original is 20 lost or misplaced.- 21 Is that agreeable to you, Ms. Morgan? 22 THE WITNESS: That's agreeable to me. 23 MR. WATSON: That's fine. . 24 Could we alsoget a copy of the transcript 25 when it's done. 101-1 27 (Pages 105 to 107) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 able 8:19 24:4 98:3 about 25:25 28:14 29:21 43:25 44:8 50:2 55:21,22 67:7 72:2 75:24 77:23 78:3 90:5 97:10,11 102:12 103:22 105:19 accounting 32:19 achieve 54:19 58.16 achievement 58:21 acre 12:16 acres 10:7 Act 11:1 acting 78:4 action 18:13,18 19:20 20:10 77:25 80:12 81:10 104:1 actions 96:10 97:6 actual 105:3 actually 10:14 15:16 28:23 30:4 39:12 57:22 58:9 62:5 63:10 64:9 66:5 67:1 69:8,9 70:3 81:1 82:6 84:23 85:20 101:18 104:15,24 add 39:16 addition 17:3 67:2 69:16 additional 62:19,20 address 6:16,17 7:18 26:13,13 addressed 38:12 106:4 Administration 105:3 administrator 20:3,7 20:10 administrator's 19:23 admonitions 31:18 adopt 38:3 adopted 15:17,18,20 15:21,22 32:22 33:12 37:8,10,19 52:7,8,19- adoption 39:17 adverse 8:19 advertising 84:4 advice 31:11 38:19 advocate 91:4 advocating 91:5,6 after 9:4 13:19,20 43:15 58:1 60:1 86:23 87:16 again 21:24 28:1 40:14 46:8 61:22 68:20 82:3 96:24 102:17 against 8:5 age 69:6 agencies 11:9 26:9 40:9 73:24 76:24 91:25 agencies's 77:12 agency 28:9 38:6 73:23 76:18 78:4 83:15 91:19 99:8 agency's 80:5 81:19 82:1,13,19 agenda 5:12 104:12 104:21 105:3 agendas 36:19 agent 91:9 ago 9:14,17 30:4 agreeable 106:21,22 agreed 105:20 agreement 34:11 35:3,4,9 83:15 agreements 11:12 air 89:1 al 1:9 2:9 ALAN 3:9 Alin 5:4 64:17;19 68:8 86:17 92:11 99:22 101:18 103:12,21 alignment 32:13,18 32:19 allow 89:16 90:14 allowed 89:9 90:20 along 11:7 98:16 already 32:22 39:7 alter 39:4 alteration 11:12 alternative 93:18 94:4 alternatives 94:1 Although 27:22 29:25 31:11 always 43:18 44:16 86:6 90:24 amendments 11:5 among 74:16,21 75:2 75:8,15 76:11,17 76:23 77:5- 81:25 82:12,17,22 85:9 amortization 88:24 89:4 amount 39:14 analysis 25:15,17 36:25 87:12 96:8 96:11,12 and/or 60:10 Angeles 2:22 3:6,10 6:2 another 16:12 22:21 23:3 39:10 40:1 43:3 50:3 91:24 97:4,4 106:15 answer 8:4 18:25 82:8 96:6 97:23 answers 8:9,15 anticipate 20:21 anticipating 96:22 anybody 29:11 80:16 anyone 28:8,9 79:23 87:21 99:25 103:1 103:1,20 anything 8:5 12:20 32:23 38:25 43:24 43:24 APPEARANCES 3:1 appendix 49:22 50:4 50:22 53:3 54:3,23 55:1,14 56:6,8,9 applicable 97:14,19 97:25 applicant 11:19 16:21,23 78:5 90.24 91:15 92:3,4 applicants 91:3 102:8 applicant's 11:17,23 application 11:18,22 16:17 18:3,4,7,23 38:8 46:2147:2 78:10,11,16,19 79:4,7,13 80:1 94:2 98:2 applications 11:6,8,8 11:14 17:20,21 19:17 21:4 78:15 78:20,22 95:7 103:8 apply 93:22,25 applying 79:10 apprised 26:4 approach 10:6 97:18 appropriate 62:1,2 62:23 approval 18:5,14,16 18:18 19:23 33:11 38:9 approved 19:21 Approximately 100:15 April 62:22 63:5 64:1 83:4,7 104:13 architect 11:17,24 78:19 architects 20:25 24:23,24 25:11 41:23,24 47:5,5,13 75:21 87:10,13 92:22 architectural 10:1 43:5 Archuleta 42:1 78:21 area 7:22 14:13 Army 11:11 )AYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON around 10:2 59:18 59:19 105:22 arrange 92:24 arranged 92:25 aside 40:16 100:7 103:21 asked 20:17,21 31:22 31:25 56:17,20,21 68:14 71:21,24 72:2 95:20,22 96:11 asking 97:16 assessment 17:5,11 17:12,13 37:3,5,9 assignment 24:12- assist 11:14 20:14 104:8 assistance 11:24 assistants 57:16, assisted 35:17 41:12 46:8 51:9 101:14 101:15 associate 12:3 13:14 68:9 associates 1:9 2:9 3:4 33:18 72:15 75:9 106:5,10 assuming 77:19 assumptions 37:23 attach 66:5 attached 7:7 34:19 35:20 41:9 46:5 47:6,1148:2 49:6 49:9 50:15 51:6 . 53:4 56:6 57:11 62:9 63:16 64:9 65:3 66:18 69:14 86:20 93:12 101:7 105:16 107:2 attachment 35:15,25 36:3,3,11 attend 95:20,22,25 99:20 101:19 105:1& attendance 93:10 attended 99:21 101:18 attending 36:16 attendings 86:6 attention 47:20 attorney 71:21 72:4 august 1:17 2:20 6:1 64:16 105:21 author 61:2,2,6 authored 41:20,21 Authority 83:10 98:13 auto 27:11 42:25 automotive 88:17 90:7,12 available 39:20 Avenue 7:19 Page 108 awarded 30:6 aware 25:2145:17 53:15 80:15 84:1 84:10,12,15 87:5 A-r-c-h-u-l-e-t-a 42:2 a.m 2:20 6:1 B 36:3 50:22 53:3 54:3,23 55:1,14 56:6,8 bachelor's 9:20 back 9:5 13:18 23:8 30:9 49:25 52:25 66:20 68:20 69:22 70:5 75:25 93:8 94:17 101:20,21 104:10 backbone 25:5,6,9 96:22,23 base 36:23 based 96:12 basically 9:9 12:12 24:14 25.9,25 35:5 36:3,16,22 37:23 38:15 39:2 54:23 56:22 97:7 Beach 4:19,25 14:8,9 14:20 15:14,17,18 22:17 27:16 28:22 29:3,15 35:10 36:8 40:8 41:23 51:1 63:7 64:2 76:24 79:17 102:4 104:22 became 9:13 13:16 13:17 46:19 61:3 69:22 become 9:12 13:20 becomes 39:20 52:7 52:8 bed 11:12 before 2:18 7:24 14:17 32:2 37:21 47:19 50:12 52:13 52:22 60:3 89:7 93:3 began 9:15 beginning 31:17 75:25 begun 31:16 100:21 behalf 2:17 6:5 29:14 40:17 46:17 47:2 54:178:11 being 10:9,19 21:11 21:14 24:10 27:8,8 29:1 30:7 44:15 54:11 66:12 89:11 95:6 96:23,24 97:2 100:22 believe 18:22 22:20 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 ]AYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 28:16 29.23 30:6,8 30:22 31:15 32:14 37:2 38:23 46:9 47:4 48:12 58:2 59:22 60:4 61:15 62:5,15,20 63:11 78:5,8,18,24 79:5 83:5,17 86:3 96:5 98:22 99:17 102:17 bell 28:19 benefits 9:6 13:20 .besides 22:21 best 8:18,24 10:9 31:20 - between 10:18 15:3 18:6 19:15 31:18 33:17 45:6 59:24 61:5 62:11 71:2,8 72:14,19,24 73:22 74:4,9,15,21 75:2,8 75:15 76:11,17,23 77:5,10 80:3 81:17 81:25 82:12,17,22 83:13 85:1,5,8 87:3,6,22 99:6,11 big 43:25 44:1,2,4,5 44:6,8,11,15,17,20 Biggs 28:11 bills 22:14 binder 65:21 bit 16:14 53:1 biweekly 28:24 board 57:22 Bob 76:2 85:24 92:14 Boeing 14:19 Bonteria 30:19 both 11:8 22:1 63:22 98:10 Boulevard 2:21 3:5 Bowman 92:13 box 43:25 44:1,2,4,5 44:6,8,11,15,17,21 break 52:23 104:24 Breed 71:9,12 75:2 81:18 82:18 bring 34:8 98:17 103:6 brochure 81:2" brought 34:9 66:7 67:1 68:17 Bryan 74:10 Bucci 76:2 85:24 92:14,14 buildings 43:7,9,12 built 12:12 bullet 67:15,23 68:1 68:4,7 93:16 97:7 98:7,21 burlington 1:6 2:6 43:10 44:12,23 45:4 70:23 71:4,10 72:16,21 73:1 74:1 74:6,11,17,23 75:4 75:10,17 76:13,19 77:1,7 82:24 84:17 88:22 90:194:9,20 94:23 bus 98:16,17 99:24 business 65:15 B-i-g-g-s 28:11 B-o-n-t-a-r-i-a 30:22 C 56:9 Calabassas 13:4 california 1:1 2:1,20 2:22 3:6,10 6:2,20 10:25 13:12 80:24 call 57:7 called 6:5 10:13 12:15 13:9 16:10 30:6,25 92:22,25 102:16 CAMARATA 2:18 came 9:17 13:18 16:18 30:5 48:12 49:12,16 55:23 56:1 58:178:6 87:16 101:2 Carey 92:11 carry-over102:1 Casa 10:10 case 1:8 2:8 20:14 21:9 26:19 91:8 92:4 106:13 cases 11:17,19 18:16 Catcher 13:12 CCO63091:8 2:8 center 1:9 2:9 5:9 11:22 13:21 21:14 21:19 30:14,17 33:18 40:10 58:20 70:23 71:4,10 72:16,21 73:1 74:1 74:6,11,17,22 75:3 75:10,16 76:12,19 76:25 77:7 82:23 83:16,25-84:3,5,14 84:14,17,19 85:3 87:23 93:8 94:24 101:1,3 CEQA 10:24,25 17:13 31:5 38:1,2 38:8 61:8,12,19,23 62:24 63:6 64:24 96:15 97:14,17,24 certain 27:9 64:8 89:16 90:10 certified 2:18 6:7 38:7 106:12,18 challenged 38:25 change 11:9 39:4 58:14 95:9 changed 46:12,13,20 56:25 57:1 58:22 71:14 changes 8:20 52:16 53:16 56:18 57:23 58:24,25 59:1,2,4,9 59:10,20,24 60:1,3 60:5,9 61:7 100:21 charge 30:7 chart 47:14 49:8 check 78:9 102:18 103:14 child 9:5 13:19 choose 26:13 chronological 65:23 Circle 6:17 circulation 25:15 cited 37:11,21 cities 18:17 City's 17:2 37:23,25 38:2,17 49:24 51:18,22,25 52:8 52:18 54:15,19 55:14 59:3 78:4 80:11 89:3,14 civil 24:23 25:1,4,5 26:5 89:13 claim 105:9 clarify 15:2 Clarita 12:13 clean 105:10 clear 14:25 clearance 61:23 62:24 63:6 client 80:10,17 closed 74:15 85:8,11 85:13,15 closed -session 86:1 closely 21:1 Club 44:5 coat 1:6 2:6 94:9,20 code 6:21 7:2217:7 17:10 37:10,21 38:4 61:24 79:14 79:16 cohen 3:4 4:4 6:11 7:8 23:6 34:10,20 35:2141:10 46:6 51:7 52:25 57:6,12 62:10 63:17 65:4 66:14,20 69:15 71:18 86:21 94:14 94:17 101:8 105:10,17 combination 81:12 come 49:19 96:7 97:11 103:17 comes 16:17 27:13 comfortable 71:23 coming 9:5 89:18 commence 105:22 commencing 2:20 comment 8:19 26:3 27:13 76:9 93:20 96:3 comments 8:20 26:7 26:10 27:8 42:10 42:13,17,19,20 49:23,24 53:9,12 53:13 56:16 70:7 87:9 commercial 58:16 commission 18:14 20:5,11,13 50:13 50:16 52:13,22 53:19 60:4 . commitments 59:17 59:17 common 91:14,14,20 92:2 community 10:8,12 28:2158:20 companies 12:21 30:12,15,16 81:7 company 10:211:25 12:5,6,1014:1 22:2 27:130:5,25 46:15 93:21 compares 54:3 complete 98:21 completed 14:17 25:16 95:17,19 96:18,25 97:2 component 37:1 components 25:8 comprised 85:18 computer 53:15 65:12 68:3 72:11 Cona 10:10 concept 39:4 44:3 conceptual 49:5,15 76:4 83:24 84:18 87:14 concern 43:19,21 98:8 concerning 74:14,20 75:1,7,14 76:10,16 76:22 77:4 81:24 82:11,16,2183:12 85:7 concerns 26:7 concert 41:22 concluded 107:1 conclusions 96:15,16 concurrent 93:23 condition 20:2 106:19 - Conditional 17:17 18:8,1195:3 conditions 33:11 conducted 105:21 conflicts 105:17 conforms 55:9,15 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 109 confused 58:12 confusing 14:23 conjunction 47:4 78:5 connection 83:16 Conservation 13:9 consider 31:8 39:22 91:7 93:11 considered 44:2 considers 20:8 consisted 17:6 consistency 4:18 36:25 49:2150:3 50:14,25 55:162:4 62:16 68:6 consistent 37:23 38:5 38:18 51:13,22 54:18,24 consists 11:1 consultants 81:7 85:22 consulting 16:13 30:19 contact 14:8 22:7 27:15,22 28:1,2,3 29:6,8 33:14 87:21 93:12,14 98:13 contacted 14:6,17 22:1 71:21 contacts 22:10 87:10 93:14 contained 47:24 65:11,14,24 contemplation 95:2 contents 36:20 continue 105:20 continued 102:1 contract 13:7 15:2,2 15:4 30:7,9 34:4,5 34:7,9 35:6,6 36:8 40:11 63:19 91:12 contracted 15:4 contractor 9:2,9 12:4 contractors 25:18 49:1 contracts 91:2 conversation 72:8 conversations 76:6 88:4,7 90:3 99:10 99:12 100:12 convince 90:18,22 coordination 24:16 24:22 copies 26:3 65:19,20 65:21 67:24 68:2,3 68:6 72:11 76:7 87:8 copy 35:1140:22 41:14 46:9,10 50:10 57:4 59:6 60:17 67:2,5,8,13 67:14,14,19 68:5 68:14 73:6,15 88:10,10,11 101:8 105:10 106:12,18 106:24 Core 11:11 corrections 8:18 106:7,14,16 correspondence 5:5 5:7 64:24 65:21,23 67:13,15,16 68:22 68:23 69:5,19 104:5 Corridor 29:21,25 31:12 32:6,10,14 32:15,24 cost-effective 9:7 Council 18:15 19:21 20:6,11 30:9 73:25 COUNSEL 3:1 country 80:23,25 county 1:2 2:2 10:12 22:24 30:13 83:10 couple 29:24 47:21 54:17 60:1 77:22 97:7 100:16 course 16:9,11 65:15 65:24 87:23 court 1:1 2:1 7:6 8:1 8:3,8 34:18 35:19 41:8 46:4 51:5 57:10 62:8 63:15 65:2 66:17 69:13 86:19 101:6 105:15,24 cover 4:15,21 40:23 50:24 63:3 79:11 Covington 92:12 Cowern 23:12 created 55:1,4,18 creation 58:20 credentialing 9:21 crossing 34:13 35:24 50:25 63:6 93:9 101:1,3 Crossings 4:19,20,24 5:9,11 105:2 CUP 17:17,18,20,22 18:1,4,6,7,8,13,23 19:1,13,15,17,19 20:11,15 21:4,7 37:7 93:16,17,22 94:1 95:10,14 97:18 98:2 currently 10:11,11 14:14 21:16,17 29:2,17 C-o-w-e-r-n 23:14 - -D___ D 4:1 data 76:1 date 50:19 57:17 dated 4:12,14,16,17 4:21,24 5:3,10 34:12 41:14 46:15 53:19 62:21,22 63*5 64:16 104:12 daughter 9:13,16 David 28:11 days 106:6 De 10:10 dead 73:13,19 deadline 59:17 December 5:8 41:15 83:4,6 86:4,8,15 87:3,7,16,19,22 90:2 92:7,8 95:1 98:23,25 99:6,11 99:16,18 100:1,17 decided 9:6 decision 13:19 26:14 46:22,23 96:6 declaration 17:14,16 98:5 107:2 declarations 11:2 dedicated 33:8 DEFENDANT 3:7 Defendants 1:10 2:10 dermite 42:24 definitely 28:18 60:2 definition 44:11,18 44:20 definitive 37:7 39:20 39:21 95:9,13 96:9 degree 9:20 demands 54:15 department 11:10 27:18,19 44:6,7,16 44:17,18 74:5 77:6 78:10 85:2 89:12 98:14 102:15 105:3 departments 26:7 73:24 76:23 department's 19:22 dependant 19:5. dependent 19:2 98:1 depicting 84:2,18 deposition 1:15 2:17 4:11 7:1,11,24 37:1164:4,7 71:20 105:20,21 106:1 107:1 Depot 14:16 44:5,13 depth 89:16 describe 10:22 16:14 35:1 44:15 described 44:16 66:7 describes 36:4 Description 4:10 5:2 design 25:12 43:4 48:24 58:17 76:5,7 84:19 88:20,21 designate 106:1 desires 52:16 desk 32:1 detail 16:14 39:24 detailed 53:2 62:23 details 81:6 determination 40:2 determine 42:13 67:1 97:18 developed 91:24 developer 20:14 21:6 21:15 81:8 90:19 91:5,14 96:1 Developers 10:6 developing 33:23 49:15 development 21:2 28:22 37:24 38:5,9 39:13,14,16 54:14 79:8 91:13 97:22 Dick 92:13 differ 47:24 difference 18:6 19:14,18 31:18 33:17 different 16:22,22 32:11 41:24 45:24 46:21 51:20 54:10 98:24 Dinovitz 4:13 22:2,3 22:5 23:17 33:13 34:12 57:16 67:16 67:17,22 85:24 92:11,21 99:22 100:9 102:17 104:4 directed 68:12 direction 49:19 68:10 directly 49:16 65:11 73:8 75:20 91:2 103:17 director 23:12 27:21 28:21 discretionary 18:13 18:18 19:20 discuss 19:14 27:23 36:13 93:2 94:22 96:19 99:3 103:8 discussed 23:24 24:3 36:20 42:12 43:25 45:8 61:25 76:2 83:17 89:12 90:13 99:16 discussing 94:1 98:15 discussion 32:13,15 66:19 69:11 78:3 94:16 105:13 discussions 49:14 7AYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 74:15,21 75:2,8,15 75:20,24 76:11,17 76:23 77:5,16,24 78:2 80:7 81:25 82:12,17 83:13 85:1,5,8 103:20 disk 50:9 57:21,22 60:13,14,16,22 64:23 66:23 67:2,9 67:15,20 68:13 distinction 10:18 91:25 division 38:8 document 4:24 5:11 13:8 26:3 35:16 36:19,22,23 38:2 39:18 47:15 50:4 50:12,16,2151:2 51:10,11,16 52:10 52:12 53:2,3,6,17 53:17 56:12 57:12 57:21 60:3 61:18 61:20 63:3,8,13 96:4 97:14,17,24 101:10 104:13,18 104:20 105:7 documents 4:20 5:5 5:6 28:18 41:2 64:8,24 65:5,10,14 65:17 66:6,2167:1 69:16 70:19,21,24 71:2,5,8,25 72:6,9 72:14,19,22,24 73:22 74:4,7,9,12 74:14,20 75:1,7,11 75:14 76:10,14,16 76:22 77:2,4,8,10 77:13,17 80:3 81:17,21,24 82:3,7 82:8,11,15,16,20 82:21 83:12,20 84:2,6,10,16,18,20 84:22 85:7 104:4 doing 14:11 15:7 89:6 domain 77:12,25 80:5,8,12 81:9,19 82:2,14,19 Don 7:14 10:8 23:20 done 14:8,11,13 16:19 17:16 23:25 38:24 60:10 79:20 84:13 89:5 93:22 95:4 96:11,13 97:17 98:5 100:22 106:25 Doug 85:23 Douglas 14:18 16:7 22:8 28:23 down 67:23 downtown 14:13 105:19 Page 110 draft 50:7 52:10 53:14 56:17,21 57:5,8,19,23 58:10 59:5 drafts 46:16 49:20 drain 48:22 87:11 drainage 25:7 96:24 drive 64:10,12 65:5 65:8,10,11 drive-thru's 90:11 90:18 due 39:23 105:17 duly 6:6 duplicative 72:12 during 28:20 88:1 90:1 100:17 101:25 duties 10:23,24 105:25 E 4:1 EA 67:12 each 40:1 65:22 earlier 53:12 easy 68:16 ecology 9:24 economic 54:15 EDAW's 21:13 24:12 60:10 Edinger 29:21,25 31:12 32:6,8,10,14 32:15,24 33:4 98:17,18 edit 58:23 editing 52:15 edits 52:16 56:22 101:22 education 9:19 efforts 84:12 eight 9:17 EIR 14:13,14,18 29:18 39:10,23 40:2,5 63:23 97:25 EIR's 97:24 either 16:12 18:4 20:15 21:4 26:13 96:2 elaborate 54:8 79:6 element 54:11,11,13 elements 51:20 54:10 eliminating 98:16 Elliot 98:14 else's 79:11,12 eminent 77:12,25 80:5,8,12 81:9,19 82:1,13,19 employed 9:1,2,3 12:5 22:3,6 29:3 employee 9:11 12:2 81:4 employment 9:15 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON enable 58:19 enclosed 106.9 encourage 90:22 end 62:5 endangered 13:11 engineer 11:17 24:23 25:1,2,4 32:16,17 engineering 26:6,6 engineers 11:11 25:14 89:13 enlisting 80:11 ensure 43:4 entered 36:7 entering 83:14 entertainment 58:17 entire 56:12 entirely 32:11 entitle 61:19 entitled 5:11 105:1 entity 12:11,12 envelope 106:3,10 environment 11:1 38:10 environmental 10:2 11:2 14:12,16 17:5 17:11,12,13 30:18 30:20 31:5,6,10,11 37:3,5,9,13,19 38:6 38:16,24 39:8,19 62:18 91:1 96:8,11 96:16 especially 90:25 ESQ 3:4,9 establish 54:13 58:15 58:19 Estates 29:18 estimate 31:23,25 estimates 24:10 estimating 31:19 estimations 31:21 et 1:9 2:9 even 31:16 44:22 52:18 91:8 evening 95:20 ever 22.8 28:3 37:4 40:9 75:20 80:7,16 85:10 87:25 90:1 91:12 94:8,19,22 every 35:4` Everybody.93:10` everything68:2,14 72:1,12- exactly 37:22 58:12 examination 4:3 6:10 examined 6:7 - example 27:10 31:21 44:1 54:10 58:13 79:9 except 28:2 100:4 exception 17:7,10,11 17:15 37:12 61:7 exchanged 70:22 71:2,8 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HUNTINGTON June 50:16,17 52:21 53:19,20 60:4,8 62:6,11 just 8:2 12:21,23,24 14:25 15:4 16:16 18:15,2419:13 21:2 23:4 25:9 26:6 29:23 31:19 33:9 34:14 35:3 38:14 39:2,23 40:12 42:17 43:6 44:14 45:20 46:10 46:25 47:1 48:17 53:155:15 58:11 58:22 59:20 61:17 61:20 64:12 68:15 72:2,12 79:14 80:18 85:12,22 88:2,8,14 89:5 93:2 94:12 95:6,15 97:16 99:15 101:25 102:8,19 103:6,17 104:16 J-a-y-n-a 6:15 Karman 7:19 keep 26:4 39:165:22 86:11 104:16 Ken 30:3 kept 9:10 70:4 key 22:7 29:6,8 93:14 kick 85:21 Kimberly 23:12 kind 10:5 11:6 25:15 88:14 90:13 knew 18:25 81:4 knight 3:8 71:15 know 6:21 15:25 16:25 19:4 20:3,4 22:23,24 24:11,24 28:20 29:22 30:14 32:7,12,21,23 33:7 33:9,17,20 41:4,25 43:6,18 44:14,17 46:19 47:10,18 48:1,9 49:13 53:21 55:19,20,21,22,23 57:2 58:9 59:3 61:13 68:4,5 78:14 78:19 79:20 80:11 81:5,7 83:4 89:21 89:24 92:16 95:9 95:12,13,14,19 99:21 101:2,4 102:3,5,14,16 knowledge 11:23 31:15 33:3 35:11 45:5 48:4 79:23 80:194:18 knowledgeable 7:10 Page 112 known 10:9 Kyle 92:14 K-a-r-m-a-n 7:19 K-i-m-b-a-r-I-y 23:14 Ladera 10:13 laid 54:5 land 10:1,4,5,7,12 12:9,19 13:1 54:11 54:13 91:24,24 language 4:.22 59:2,3 59:4,9 61:8,9,11,14 larger 39:14 last 12:22 21:20 29:24 52:10 58:14 68:1 late 9:18 later 52:10 latest 57:21,22 88:9 88:10,11 law 3:8 8:3 25:3,8 36:25 71:13 73:7 81:13 92:15 lay 10:8,14 25:9 layman's 39:3 lead 11:18 least 20:12 59:25 91:8 104:3 left 90:23 93:3 94:18 legislative 56:17,21 57:5,8,18,23 58:10 59:5 60:9,24 length 31:22,25 Let 86:7 letter 4:12,14,16,21 34:11,14,24 35:2,3 35:4,9,14 40:23 50:24 62:21 63:13 63:21 64:1 67:22 98:22 99:1 106:15 letters 53:15 let's 17:12 52:25 69:10 70:18 86:11 90:18,19 92:7 94:14 105:12 level 19:22,23 20:13 39:24 licensing 9:21 lieu 106:12,18 like 6:25 8:10,17 10:5 11:12 24:11 31:20 34:5,10 35:13 36:11,13 40:21 41:4 43:8 45:22,25 47:9,20 48:1 50:20 53:1 55:12 57:6 61:17 63:2 64:3 66:2 68:25 69:1 81:2 85:17,21 86:13 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 )AYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 90:19100:11,24 104:11 likely 19:19 limitation 73:23 84:3 84:18 limited 38:10 line 52:9 Linscott 25:3 72:20 73:7 76:11 92:15 list 76:186:6 93:12 98:20 listed 5:5,6 7:10 66:12 lists 64:12 little 14:23 16:14 53:1 LLC 1:9 2:9 local 22:24,24 38:6 located 7:15,16 locations 16:5 long 29:3 48:11,14 92:16 longer 92:12 long-standing 91:10 look 43:8 89:25 94:13 102:11 looked 37:25 39:13 39:14,23 looking 22:19 42:22 83:8 looks 20:7 LOREN 3:4 Los 2:213:6,10 6:2 losing 13:20 lost 9:6 106:11,20 lot 27:5 32:15 45:5 49:15 89:10 93:13 100:22 lotting 10:15 loud 69:10 Macerich 14:1,6,17 15:7 16:3 17:4,6 17:15,19 23:25 27:128:2129:2,5 29:8 36:22 37:6. 41:18,22,23 42:12 45:3,6 46.18 56:19- 56:23 57:25 58:1 70:2 73:12,12,14 73:18,19,20 78:3,5 78:20 87:9,11- 88:12,15 89:1,12 89:18 93:22 95:4,7 97:17,21 101:25 Macerich's 15:19 21:25 78:18 made 13:19 46:22,23 50:11 53:16 56:15 56:18,23 58:14,23 58:24,25 59:1 60:5 60:10 100:20 101:22,24 106:16 mail 69:2,5,18 main 14:13 19:18 33:14 42:18 62:15 97:1 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months 88:12 Moorpark 13:5 more 10:15,19,20 11:11 16:14 21:1 24:6 30:18,18,25 31:9,10 38:23 44:4 44:12 53:2 62:23 90:9,13,23 91:1,20 92:2 97:12 Morgan 1:16 2:17 6:4,14 64:17 105:18106:2,6,21 Morrison 133 most 7:911:7 15:1 19:17 57:17 87:8 move 18:24 46:11_ 68:20 92:7 93:5 103:9 much 21:130:18 39:13 44:6 89:9 95:17,18 multiple 94:1 municipal 79:15 myself 86:17 88:2 92:11 M-a-c-e-r-i-c-h 14:1 M-o-r-g-a-n 6:15 M-o-r-r-i-s-o-n 133 N 3:4 4:1 name 6:1213:2 23:20 28:17 30:3 64:18101:2 names 30:15,16 necessarily 19:25* necessary 24:15 27:10 39:19106:7 need 19:25 32:20 37:15 39:10,22 406 71:24 76:3, 77:17,20 79:13 93:5 95:2,12,13 98:6 needed 59:18 71:22 71:25 89:5 97:8 98:20,24 104:4 needs 37:14 54:14 76:1 negative 11:217:14 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 113 17:16 98:4 negotiated 30:10 negotiations 45:6,16 45:17,18 network 65:8 never 32:2 35:6 36:7 37:8 38:25 40:16 49:4 71:12 80:13 85:25 new'29:23 32:23 43:5,6 46:25 47:1 48:15 57:2 58:22 61:3,5 73:14 87:14 89:22,24 Newhall 12:9,19 13:1 neat 55:3 97:5 98:21 next -step 104:1 none 5:20 25:21 77:19,20 87:5 100:8,11,11 normally 95:25 North 12:16 notes 103:13,18 notice 4:117:1,3 50:14 64,4,E 70:18 noticed 20:5 noticing 20:9 nowadays 11:7 . dumber 6:23 7:21 16:18,18 37:21,22 46:25 47:158:9 61:3,6 65:9 numbered 16:23 numbering 16:15,25 17:2 oath 8:2,3 obviously 26:2 occur 36:18 39:16 52:20 occurred 48:9 52:21 99:17 OCTA 83:7,9 98:12 99:17 100:4 off 27:12 66:14,19 68:15 69:10,11 85:2193:3 94:14 94:16,18 97:22 105:12,13 of band 83:4 office 32:1 49:17 80:16 offices 3:8 80:15,21 85:23 92:19 105:22106:2,4,4 106:10 off --site 102:10 often 10:6 20:6 Oh 50:1 Okay 8:16 15:6 17:8 18:12 23:15 24:11 27:3 30:23 31:2 32:5 34:10 35:13 36:15 41:3 42:8 45:22 47:8,25 50:20 53:24 57:12 58:5,13 60:7 61:16 64:5 66:9,10 67:3 67:6 69:23 70:6,18 70:20 71:17 73:22 76:10 77:20 81:3 81:16 82:10,16 83:11 86:12,21 87:20 92:6,9 97:5 99:4,5 104:14 old 58:21 73:11,13 73:17,18 once 46:20 48:16 49:21 50:10 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10:24 own 40:17 52:16 59:11,12 owned 79:8,9 owner 14:1 16:22 27:2 46:21 79:5 91:14,18,22 owners 14:3,4 ownership 79:12 owns 33:20 Pacific 41:16 packet 66:11 page 4:3,24 36:11 42:4,6,6 58:13 63:3,5 93:8 96:17 103:24 104:13 106:15 Pages 4:22 paper 10:19 paragraph 58:14 paragraphs 54:17 park 6:18,19 14:19 parking 25:17 87:12 89:9 Parkside 29:18 part 9:7 13:18 17:14 32:10 37:20 57:13 59:20 69:18 73:10 73:11 93:7,11 96:10 partial 17:7,15 38:11 participation 83:15 particular 40:4 56:16 79:14 91:6,7 particularly 38:4 partnership 58:19 part-time 9:5 passed 27:14 past 20:20 21:8 PBR 30:6,6 peculiar 38:11 penalty 8:4 106:8 107:2 per 101:24 perform 20:18,22 30:12 36:4,14 performed 39:8 period 13:18 88:1 90:2 100:17 perjury 8:4 106:8 107:2 permit 11:6,7,13 17:18 18:9,11 42:24 90:22 95:3 105:9 permits 11:12 permitted 18:10,17 27:9 90:14 person 7:9 22:7 29:6 29:8 79:25 100:10 102:12 personally 80:14 92:23 perspective 39:3 pertain 44:11,14 phase 96:18 phone 7:2172:8 88:3 physical 10:13,18 31:4 pieces 10:7 place 18:20 85:23 86:2,3 92:18 102:3 102:5,9 104:23 105:11 placed 64:23 plaintiff 1:7 2:7,18 3:3 6:6 Plaintiff's 4:10 5:2 7:5 34:17 35:18 41:7 46:3 51:4 57:9 62:7 63:14 65:1 66:16 69:12 86:18 101:5 - 105:14 planned 10:8 32:18 planner 10:10 27:25 planners 10:12 planning 10:1,2,4,5 10:6,13,16,19 11:3 18:14 19:20,22 20:5,11,12 27:19 27:21 30:14,17,19 31:1,3,4,5,8,10 44:1 50:12,15 52:13,22 53:18 60:4 102:14 plans 11:4,15 15:15 15:16 16:3,4,5 48:7,20,21,23 49:5 49:16,16 51:25 64:25 84:24 87:15 87:18 91:13,21,23 93:18 94*5 ]AYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON play 8:10 PMK 7:1 point 13:20 22:1 36:24 52:9,14,17 57:18 59:5 60:5 78:8 93:3 95:5,8 96:4,2197:3,4,15 97:21 100:21 points 97:7 policies 51:12,14,15 51:17,22 policy 10:15,19,19 11:3 31:4 54:12,19 102:9 ponding 89:8,9,15,17 89:22 portion 17:17 79:9 97:1 position 9:5 10:22 12:1 13:13 39:10 89:3,14 possibility 98:16 possible 81:14 possibly 78:4 98:17 101:22 102:18 powers 77:12 80:5,8 81:19 82:2,14,19 PRC 38:15 precise 32:13,18,21 pregnant 9:16 preparation 35:23 41:12 46:8 72:7 prepare 8:8 34:22,24 36:2137:3 40:9,12 40:19 48:14 71:19 98:22 104:7- 105:25 prepared 11:2213:7 16:3,6,6,11,12 21:25 34:1,2 35:7 35:10 36:23 37:4,6 37:6,8,9,14,16,18. 39:11 41:17 47:10 47:18 48:1,3,4,25 50:4,6,7 53:6 56:13 62:21 63:13 63:18 73:16,20 78:19,20,22 86:16 101:9,17 104:21 105:7 preparing 11:19 13:6 17:3 35:17 36:24 49:18 51:9 98:20 100:18 101:14,15 104:8 present 92:10 103:10 presented 57:12 63:8 presume 56:1,3 69:2 pretty 54:7 95:17,18 96:8 prevent 103:1 previous 95:22 97:14 Page 114 previously 37:11 61:25 104:15 Price 44:5 primarily 49:19 primary 27:22 28:1 28:6 principal 7:14 10:9 23:20 29:23 30:7 printed 67:24 prior 14:1,3 21:25 23:25 27:2 32:12 38:1,12 48:10 53:12 56:18 58:18 58:18 66:13 76:7,8 97:16,24 99:18 probably 10:9 15:24 19:10 23:8 33:11 42:6 46:20,22 48:10,17 60:1 87:18 92:2 96:3 procedures 19:13 103:9 proceed 21:6 94:7 95:8 proceeding 20:15 proceedings 107:1 process 21:1,2 38:16 55:7 89:6 93:2,5 103:7 produce 24:5 61:6 64:8 70:19 71:25 73:4,6,13 produced 40:6 57:18 65:17 70:24 71:5 71:11 72:17,22 73:2,17,21 74:2,7 74:12,18,24 75:5 75:12,18 76:14,20 77:2,8 83:6 production 57:13 project 4:19 5:11 12:3,18,19 13:4 14:15,15,16 17:6,6 17:15,17,19,21 22:1 28:21 29:4,21 29:25 30:1 31:13 31:1632:4,6,7,10 32:24 35:5 36:16 36:17 37:7,12,22 38:5,9,11 39:20 40:14 64:24 65:7 65:22 68:15 75:25 85:13,18 86:5 88:13,16 89:1 93:3 93:7,9,11,13 95:16 96:17 101:25 102:11 104:12,23 105:2 projects 9:10 10:25 11:4,7 20:8 25:6 29:13 38:17 80:13 Promenade 41:16 IILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00r BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON promotional 84:4 pronounce 64:18 proper 103:7 property 13:11 14:2016:22 79:8 79:10,11 90:21 91:15,18,22 proposal 24:7,9 46:14,18,18 52:5 69:24 93:4 proposed 73:7 proposing 36:15 provide 8:23 22:18 24:15 33:9 49:8 52:10 80:10 81:8 90:17,21104:4 provided 27:5,6,6 34:14 38:19 42:10 48:20 49:23 50:9 51:23 53:13 57:20 61:7,20 62:15 64:10 66:23 69:16 69:17 77:13 80:16 87:10 89:21 provides 51:12 providing 26:142:17 42:19 62:1188:9 88:11 public 17:7,10 19:25 20:4,12 37:10,20 38:4 61:24 89:12 95:19,20,22 98:14 public -private 58:19 pulled 65:1166:12 72:9 purchased 14:4 pure 32:1 purpose 35:2 38:15 93:1 103:4 put 39:2 67:20 68:15 72:12 88:16 89:1 P-a-r-k 6:20 p.m 105:23 107:1 quality 11:1 58:17 question 15:10 77:14 99:9. questionable 67:2r questions-7:10 8:9• 41:177:23 96.6,14 quick 52:23 59:15 66:25 94:14 quicker 67:4 quickly 24:7 59:18 Ranch 10:13 rapport 40:14 rather 46:18 97:2 raw 10:6 91:23 read 8:10,12 reading 42:3 real 52:23 66:25 realize 14:24 really 8:17 18:25 19:2,4 27:22 31:14 44:20 45:15 78:14 90:23 93:14 96:4 97:15 reason 8:23 recall 17:19 20:13 22:23 29:1 37:22 44:15 78:2,14 93:21 97:20 99:13 100:8,11 103:23 received 4:17 43:5 48:16 recent 87:9 recently 14:17 15:21 30:4 71:14 95:6 Recess 52:24 recommend 22:18 recommendation 14:7 40:16 recommended 21:24 40:15 record 6:13 52:25 66:14,19,20 69:9 69:10,1194:14,16 94:17 105:12,13 recorders 102:22 records 50:13 redeveloped 84:2,19 redeveloping 14:12 redevelopment 28:9 33:5 43:15 63:7 73:23 76:17 77:12 78:1,4,10 80:5 81:19 82:1,13,19 83:15,16,24 84:14 92:1 97:1 refer 9:912:3 26:5 44:7,8 reference 61:24 referred 29:18 36:1 41:15 85:13 93:8 referring 70:22 71:3 71:9 72:15,20,25 73:25 746,10,16 74:22 75:3,9,16 76:12,18,25 77:6 77:11 80:4 81:18 82:1,13,18,23 83:13,23 84:4,16 98:25 refers 66:22 . reflects 54:15 regard 11:2142:9,17 56:5 63:6,22 75:23 77:25 79:20 80:11 84:13 87:22 regarding 4:20,24 21:13 25:19 70:22 71:3,9 72:15,20,25 73:25 74:5,10,16 74:21 75:3,9,16 76:12,18,24 77:6 77:11,24 80:4,8 81:18,25 82:12,18 82:22 83:13,23 84:4,16 85:2 regards 21:19 34:13 36:9 regional 27:11 58:16 regional -type 43:1 reimbursed 35:7 related 10:25 36:16 61:12,23 relates 90:9 relating 70:23 71:3,9 72:15,20,25 74:1,5 74:10,16,22 75:3,9 75:16 76:12,18,25 77:6,11 80:4 81:18 82:1,13,18,23 83:14,24 84:5,17 96:15 relation 25:22 45:16 relationship 91:11 relay 26:11 relieved 105:25 remain 43:13,17,18 43:19 94:20 remember 42:20 94:19 rendered 34:6 renderings 47:21,23 47:24 48:2 repair 27:11 43:1 report 14:16 29:19 37:13,20 38:7,13 39:8 53:17 69:7- 87:12 101:20 reported 101:21 reporter 2:19 6:7 7:7 8:2,8 34:19 35:20 41:9 46:5 51:6 57:11 62:9 63:16 65:3 66:18 69:14 86:20 101:7 105:16,25 reports 11:3 14:12 represent 46:14 representative 99:23 represents 71:13 request 11:19 57:16 70:21 81:22 82:4- 101:24 requested 5:19 11:16 40:19 59:1,6,9 63:10 64:7 98:11 104:5 requests 70:21 require 18:18,22 20:12 95:14 required 13:10 25:7 33:4,7 36:25 97:11 requirement 18:11 79:16 requirements 20:9 54:5 requires 18:14 19:19 32:7 residential 14:15 residents 54:15 resolution 93:24 Resource 17:7,10 37:10,20 38:4 61:24 respect 38:7 49:20 61:8 97:13 respond 7:10 54:18 response 99:9 responsibility 33:10 responsive 81:21 82:3 83:1,20 84:7 84:23 rest 15:3 43:20 88:23 result 78:13 retail 44:158:17 retained 22:1131:7 31:9 91:9 retainer 34:4 return 106:9 revamped 43:5,7 review 18:5,7,15,24 19:2,11,14,16,21 19:24 20:16 21:4,7 26:2 39:19 55:6 56:13,15 76:9 88:14 95:15 97:16 106:6 reviewed 95:6 101:21 105:7 reviews 11:9 revise 24:5 48:14 revised 48:20 93:6 98:6 revising 24:14 revision 67:23 98:5 98:21 revisions 36:22 50:10,11 100:20i re -date 50:16 right 15:6 18:21 29:,19 33:8,9 39:17 46:10 65:4 66:11 77:21 93:19 97:9 100:6 105:18,19 ring 28:19 Robert 92:14 ruler 31:24 Ryan 30:3 same 8:2 9:1012:11 12:12 20:5,10 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 115 30:12 35:14 43:20 50:14 88:1194:13 95:8 97:2 98:4 Santa 10:10 12:13 sat 32:12 saw 15:16 saying 60:23 77:18 says 35:5 50:24 63:4 67:21 93:16,17 96:17 97:5 104:1 scenario 39:13 schedule 88:24 89:4 98:12103:11 scheduling 105:17 scope 24:10 35:23 36:4,13 Scott 22:2,3,5,10 23:17 27:25 33:13 34:12 49:17,19 57:15 59:7 67:17 67:22 85:24 92:11 92:2199:22 100:9 102:17 104:4 Scott's 49:17 second 9:413:19 - 16:2163:5 66:15 94:15 96:17 99:3 .104:10 105:12 section 38:4,15 61:24 93:17 97:5 103:24 sections 62:2 see 10:17 23:6 24:18 28:2 30:9,11 32:25 35:8 39:25 42:5,25 44:19 45:9,25 47:17 50:1,18 51:19,24 53:10 54:21 56:11,22,24 56:25 57:3 58:10 59:13 60:12 61:5 62:25 64:1167:12 67:13 68:11 77:18 78:9 89:20 92:2 93:12 94:3 seeing 61:4 seen 15:10 32:2 selected 7:9,13 29:24 88:8 self-addressed 106:3 106:9 send 81:1 106:2,16 senior 12:2 13:13 27:25 sent 57:15 59:6 68:24 69:7,21,21 70:5 sentence 58:15,18 separate 105:4 September 21:20,21 23:8 34:12 35:14 48:12 76:1 87:1,3 87:6,19,22 90:2 sequence 97:2 service 13:10 63:18 80:18 81:8 90:21 services 20:18,22 22:18 30:13 31:7 34:5 35:7 62:12,15 80:10 95:17,18 session 85:11,14,16 sessions 74:15 85:8 set 44:20 51:15,17 54:4 92:20 98:19 setting 58:16,20 seven 9:4,16 104:13 several 10:7 64:9 67:16 88:12 sewer 25:7 48:21 87:11 96:24 shared 25:17 87.12 Shea 14:14 29:17,17 sheet 63:4 SHELLIE 2:18 Shipow 72:5 shop 27:11 - shopping 58:16 70:23 71:4,10 72:16,21 73:1 74:1 74:6,11,17,22 75:3 75:10,16 76:12,18 76:25 77:7 82:23 83:16,24 84:3,5,13 84:14,17,19 87:23 94:23 short 13:18 shorthand 2:19 6:7 102:20 show 58:22 side 11:3 30:18,19 31:1,8 sign 78:10,11 79:4 79:13 106:8 signage 25:13 56:9 76:5,8 signatures 78:7 signed 35:6,10 106:11 significant 38:12. similar 19:18 27:6 30:17 35:9 95:4 since 14:9 30:8 39:3 39:7 67:20 88:12 site 11:9 17:2018:4 18:5,7,9,15,15,24 19:1,1,3,5,10,14,16 19:21,24 20:15 21:1,2,4,7 25:12 27:11 37-.8,12 39:20,21 48:7,20 49:5,16 55:4 76:4 87:15,18 93:24 95:10,13,14,15 96:10,10,12 97:15 98:1 102:11 sites 10:14 site -plan 47:21,23,24 48:2 Smith 7:14 10:8 23:20 Social 9:24 sole 49:18 79:25 some 8:18 11:18 15:24 18:16,17 34:5 37:9 41:1 42:2143:6 44:22 45:19,20 52:9 55:6 61:8 66:12 96:12 98:16 100:20 105:17 somebody 104:3 someone 49:17 78:9 79:8,11,12 80:14 something 18:8,9 32:11,22 73:8 79:11 88:25 89:11 89:18 90:20 91:4 sometime 47:19 somewhere 102:11 sort 34:5 45:19,20 55:6,12 Southern 80:23 SP 46:12 89:23,24 speak 22:8 28:9 72:4 species 13:11 specifically 17:16 24:1,6,11 31:4 50:2 54:9 58:23 59:8 61:24 90:8,15 93:7 99:24 102:11 speculate 31:20 speculating 32:3 speculation 32:1 speed 103:6 spell6:12 23:13 30:21 spelled 6:14 SP-1016:7 SP-12 15:18 26:21 27:1,4,5,6 40:22 42:14,17,21 45:1,3 45:13 46: I;19 47:7 48:7,11,15 49:18 51:16,21 57:25 59:25 61:5 78:17 87:15 100:18 104:8 SP-13 15:20,23 18:19 19:8 27:7 33:2 34:2 37:6 44:24 45:14 46:19 49:18 51:16,22 53:4 56:5 57:8 60:21 61:3,3,11,19 78:23 87:15 SP-916:8 square 97:21 staff 19:22,23 24:16 40:12 53:17 69:7 90:25 92:12 96:5 96:12 103:6 staffers 36:18 staffs 101:24 stamped 106:3,9 . stand 42:23 standard 35:4 76:5 102:9 standards 25:13 56:10 76:8 standing 36:23 stands 17:18 start 17:12 21:18 35:5 started 13:25 14:11 17:1 52:15 state 1:1 2:1,19 6:12 25:8 27:12 36:25 77:17 stated 51:21 86:1 statements 51:12,21 states 54:12 status 26:4 36:16,17 99:15 102:18 step 40:1,4 55:3 97:5 still 58:12 62:11 87:17 88:25 95:2 95:16 97:14,18,25 98:1 103:12 stop 99:24 105:11 stopped 88:16 stops 98:16,17 storage 73:13,19 store 44:6,18 stores 44:7,16,17 storm 25:7 48:21 87:11 96:24 straightforward 96:9 stream 11:12 streamline 38:16 street 3:9 14:13 32:8 32:13,18,2133:1,5 strictly 76:4 strike 54:21 strike -out 57:1 58:11 58:21 60:23 strike -outs 58:12 studies 10:15 11:2 26:5,5 study 73:14,15,20 98:4 subcontractors 36:18 subjects 45:7 submit 24:20 95:13 submittal 53:13 submitted 46:17 49:25 53:8,11,14 53:15.18,25 73:8,9 IAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON subpoena 7:11 64:7 subsequent 38:3 39:18 53:16 60:2,5 76:6 99:18 substance 75:23 88:6 99:13 suggest 40:13 suggestion 94:6 Suite 7:20 Sunkist 6:17 SUPERIOR 1:12:1 support 54:14 supposed 24:12 sure 6:14 20:1,9 32:17 54:24 55:9 67:17,24 68:2 72:11 85:12 86:4 99:12 100:14 103:14 sworn 6:6 system 16:15,25 17:2 65:8 table 31:22 take 8:3 11:18 48:14 52:23 54:9 86:2 92:18 102:9 103:12 taken 2:17 7:24- 52:24 57:24 102:19 takes 51:11 79:10 taking 4:11 7:1 30:8 talk 25:25 67:7 69:9 97:10 talked 88:2 talking 44:8 50:1 55:21,22 102:12 tape 102:22 103:1 task 36:24 tasks 36:15 team 85:13,17,18,18 86:5,23 93:8,9,12 93:13 technical 26:5 81:6 telephone 22:10 28:2 28:3 88:4,6 90:3 99:10,12 100:12 tell 15:14 32:3 59:8 72:3 85:15 88:8 98:3 telling 94:19 tells 101:23 tenant 45:5,16,16 tenants 45:6,7 90:16 terms 19:3 90:13 Terry 98:14 testified 6:7 testimony 8:18,24 text-51:23 56:9 57:1 57:2 58:21,22 Page 116 their 14:13,19 19:2.5 19:6 24:23,23,24 25:1,2 26:3,7 33:10 36:18 38:18 40:17 42:10,18,20 45:6,7 47:5,13 48:7 52:5,12,16 53:8 55:15 56:7 59:11,12 80:8 89:13 94:1.6 97:17 98:1 102:9 103:7 Theme 55:18 themselves 16:12 78:25 84:24 theory 43:25 44:13 thing 11:15 39:15 things 27:23 42:21 42:23 43:1 think 16:7 18:23 20:23 21:3 22:6 29:19 37:21 44*5 44:6,19 46:20 58:7 58:8 61:4 72:2 81:13 85:22 86:4 87:8,16 89:17,17 91:25 92:17,25 94:6 95:5,18 97.:16 97:20,22 98:10 99:8 101:25 102:7 102:8 third 36:24 67:15 though 17:23 20:11 20:19 21:9 22:10 44:22 52:18 91:8 101:20 thought 89:5 93:4 97:23 three 9:14 12:22 43:11 67:22 68:1 88:5 93:17 threshold 37:24 through 8:12 14:7 15:12,25,25 16:2,4 40:25 41:2 49:1,17 49:24 50:13 54:10 57:22 66:2,25 67:4 87:19 98:13 99:16 100:17 throughout 13:14 80:23,25 tiers 55:12,13 time 9:7 13:14,18,18 15:15 16:19 24:4 39:19,21 41:15 42:21 45:3,9,13 48:11 59:15,16 62:16 87:18 88:1 89:1 90:1,11 92M 93:4.21 94:7 96:22 97:3,4,15 100:22 106:7 times 20:6 87:25 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.07.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON title 12:1 42:4 today 8:18,24 34:8 64:8 65:17,18 66:7 68:17 70:25 71:6 71:1172:22 73:2 73:17 together 21:3 67:20 72:10 told 48:6 Tom 29:10 top 27:12 97:23 toward 62:5 traffic 25:2,14,15 26:6 32:16,17 73:7 73:14,15,20 87:12 transcript 8:8 106:8 106:24 Transit 83:10 98:12 transmittal 6 1: 10 67:25 transmitted 76:7 87:8 trigger 88:23 truth 72:3 try 90:21 103:1 trying 78:6 90:17 95:8 97:3 tuchman 3:4 106:5 106:10 turn 47:20 59:18 turnaround 59:15,16 turned 59:19 Twenty -First 3:10 two 4:22 12:21,23,24 67:22 68:7 88:5 two -page 61:18 type 11:15 15:8 20:18 30:13 79:7 80:17 90:19 93:24 types 76:2 80:18 typical 31:21 typically 12:3 18:13 91:22 UC 9:20 uh-huh 47:22 60:16 86:9103:Z 104:2 104:6 ultimately 52:6,6 under 8A 13:717:7 17:13 18:17 27:25 37:24 63:18 67:12 67:15 68:3,10 79:12 89:8 93:17 97:20 106:8 107:2 underlined 58:22 understand 8:6,11 8:21 15:6 16:16. 19:19 26:25 44:10 46:16 56:17 96:21 understanding 14:5 17:23 18:19 52:21 . 53:2 63:22 79:3 87:17 92:5 95:5 unless 18:25 102:10 unsigned 4:14 35:15 until 13:15,16,17 62:6 105:21 update 35:24 99:15 updated 93:6 updating 24:15,16 upgraded 88:22 urban 10:1,1,4,5 use 17:17 18:8,11 42:24 46:10 54:11 54:13 90:15,18,20 90:20 91:6,7 95:3 97:24 98:3 106:12 used 8:5 37:1138:2 44:15 106:18 uses 18:16,17 19:3,4 27:9 42:24.43:2 54:14 90:10,14,22 using 36:22 usually 10:7 49:16 U.S 13:10 vacation 30:5 Valencia 12:9,13,16 variance 19:6 various 59:2187:18 verify 67:20 88:10 verifying 97:13 version 4:14 53:15 58:1160:22,23 versus 19:1,13,16 91:6 videotapes 83:23 84:1 102:24 viewed 90:24 Villa 6:18,20 Village 55:18 visitor 58:15 Volume 106:1 Von 7:19 vs 1:8 2:8 V-i-t-1-a 6:20 V-o-n 7:19 want 7:17,18 26:2,15 30:14 31:19 41:1 42:25 52:23 66:14 77:22 86:10 89:15 90:10,14 91:6 94:8 94:23 96:14 wanted 54:9 56:22 56:25 89:15 94:4,5 94:12,13 wanting 43:4 wants 90:19 Wards 43:10 44:2,9 44:12,23 78:7,12 79:3 88:18,22 90:5 90:8 warranted 27:11 wasn't 9:6 27:22 46:23 72:11 73:8 77:16,17 78:14 90:8 water 25:7 48:21 87:11 89:8 96:24 WATSON 3:9 23:1 52:23 71:16 106:23 way 8:1 19:10 21:6 33:8,9 39:158:18 97:20 week 48:17 weekly 28:24 weeks 29:24 well 8:1 16:25 19:17 22:3 25:17,24 27:2132:6 45:6 46:12 50:1 54:8,21 56:9 59:25 62:21 67:25 68:3 69:24 75:25 80:25 84:6 90:7,8 91:18 96:9 96:21 97:13104:3 went 46:21 50:12,15 52:13,22 57:22 60:3 were 7:9 14:3,3,12 21:16 22:10,23,24 23:9 24:20,24 25:18 27:9 29*5 29:9 30:8 32:18 34:6 36:15,19,21 37:10 38:1141:23 42:20,21 43:1,7,17 43:19 44:15 45:7,7 45:17,18,21 48:23 48:25 53:16 58:11 59:20,24 60:5,9,10 62:13,16 64:7 65:11 68:23,24 ' 73:19 75:23 76:6 78:2,6 79:5 85:1 85:10 87:4,17,17 87:21 88:8,9,10,15 88:20 89:6,16 90:11,16 93:14,25 94:7 95:8,22 96:22 97:10,16,20,22 98:24 100:21 102:12,19,19,22 103:10104:5 106:16 weren't 59:14 95:24 West 3:9 we're 26:1 40:25 63:25 66:20,25 67:7 68:20 69:9 81:16 94:17 105:4 Whitman 71:9,12 75:2 81:18 82:17 widen 33:4,7 widening 32:8,15 33:1 width 32:20 Wildlife 13:10 Wilshire 2:213:5 witness 6:5 23:3 71:17106:22 words 57:20 work 7:21 12:15,20 14:8,1015:1,5,7,8 21:3 23:25.24:7,10 24:14 29:25 30:10 30:17,20 35:5,23 36:4,14 38:24 48:1169:24 81:8 87:6 91:197:12 worked 20:25 28:24 87:1188:13 91:21 91:23 working 13:25 14:14 21:16,18 25:19 29:4,5,9,13 31:15 59:7 87:13,17 91:10 - works 8:1 16:15 68:9 68:10 89:12 98:14 worldwide 81:1 wouldn't 19:24 91:5 X 4:1 xerox 106:14 yeah 30:16 42:7 72:8 72:1186:4,9 94:6 98:23 102:14 year 21:20 25:5 89:8 years 9:4,14,17 10:3 12:22 38:25 Zelefsky 27:2128:1 28:4 zip 6:2160:16 64:10 64:12,23 65:5,10 65:11 66:22 67:2,9 67:15,20 68:13 zone 11:8 zoning 10:20,21 18:10,17 19:22 20:3,7,10 39:18 001:8 2:8 1 15-12,24,25 16:2,4 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 117 16:20 36:11 67:12 70:21 1,000,000 97:21 1-A 66:3 1-21-00 5:10 1.22-99 4:16 1:30105:19,23 107:1 1015:25 74:14 85:7 10:25 2:20 6:1 100 89:8 1015:10 10120 6:17 10275 2:19 105 5:12 1115:12,25 16:2,4 74:20 80:22,23 12 4:15 15:11,15,16 15:16 24:1 41:14 45:23 52:3 89:17 89:18 1315:1126:19 36:9 52:3 75:7104:8,13 104:16,17 13th 57:5 14 75:14 1414:1171,5 64:3 . 70:18 142 4:12 34:11,17,23 36:169:17 143 4:14 35:14,18 36:12 69:24 144 4:15 40:22 41:5 41:7,13 45:24 46:13 47:24 57:24 70:1 145 4:17 45:23 46:3 46:13 47:7,11,23 48:3,5,15 49:6,9 58:3 60:19 70:8 100:19 1464:18 50:21 51:4 53:1,21 56:6 70:10 147 4:20 57:7,9 58:11 59:14,25,25 60:25 70:12 148 4:22 61:18,22 62:7 70:14 149 4:24 63:14 64:2 70:16 15 38:25 76:10 15th 34:12 35:14 150 5:3 64:16 65:1 66:22 83:8 1515:5 66:6,16 68:20 69:17,17 152 5:6 69:1,12,17 153 5:8 86:14,18 154 5:9 100:24 101:5 155 5:11 104:11 105:1,6,14 16 76:16 16034 1: 13 17 76:22 17875 7:19 18 77:4 85:1 19 77:10,22 1992 9:18 1998 41:15 19" 4:17 5:8 34:12 35:14 40:23 86:15 87:3,6,7,22 90:2,2 92:8 99:1,6 2 5:8 12:16 16:23 42:6 60:18 64:16 71:2 86:15 87:3,7 87:22 90:2 92:8 95:1 97:5 99:6,11 2nd 86:8 99:16,18 2:00105:19 20 80:3 20th 46:15 60:8 20001:17 2:21 6:1 46:15 50:8 60:3,4 60:8,9,18 62:4 63:5 64:1,16 99:7 100:18,25 101:11 103:5,16 104:13 105:21 2181:16 99:6,11 100:1,18,25 101:11 103:5,16,22 21st 86:5 99:18 210833 17:7 61:25 210833B 38:4 213 3:6,11 22 40:22 81:24 22nd 60:3,9 62:4 23 82:11 24 82:16 25 82:21 105:21 25th 53:13 26 63:5 64:1 83:12 27th 62:22 28 84:2,23 29 84:16,23 3 48:2,5 49:6 68:2 71:8 93:8;16- 103:24 30 4:17 106:6 30th 2:21 3:5 53:11 53:14,16 327 7:23 34 4:13 3435 2:21 3:5 35 4:14 385-8000 3:6 -- - ---- - 4 47:6,10 49:9 68:4 72:6 JAYNA MORGAN, 08.0?.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 4th 62:22 400 7:20 40411:12 414:16 34:21 46 4:17 5 4:4,24 5-26-00 4:21 5-4 4:24 514:19 5210:3 57 4:21 6 58:13 62 4:23 63 4:25 633 3:9 65 5:4 66 5:5 660-8044 7:22 69 5:7 7 1:17 2:20 4:11 6:1 7th 41:15 60:4 98:23 98:25 714 6:24 816:8 8th 50:17 53:19,20 8-2-00 5:3 80s 14:9 86 5:8 896-2400 3:11 9 5:11 74:9 105:2 9-15-99 4:12,14 90010 3:6 90071-2040 3:10 91/early 9:18 92 9:18 _ 92614 7:20-- 92816 6:22 949 7:22 950 97:22 9813:25 15:7 9921:21 48:12 87:1 87:3,22 100:1,17 998-5505 6:24 Page 118 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BU. _ _1NGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 3 4 5 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE) OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 6 California Corporation, ) 7 Plaintiff, ) 8 vs. ) Case No. OOCCO6309 9 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, a ) Volume II Delaware Limited Liability ) (Pages 175-280) 10 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL ) PROPERTIES, a Delaware Limited ) 11 Liability Company; THE EZRALOW ) COMPANY, a Delaware Limited ) 12 Liability Company and DOES 1 ) through 10, inclusive, ) 13 ) Defendants. ) 14 ) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 DEPOSITION OF: 22 FRANK CODA 23 Friday, August 25, 2006, 10:25 a.m. 24 25 175 t APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 FOR PLAINTIFF: 4 TUCHMAN 8t ASSOCIATES By: LOREN N. COHEN 5 Attorney at Law 3435 Wilshire Boulevard, 30th Floor 6 Los Angeles, California 90010 (213)385-8000 7. FOR DEFENDANT: 8 HOLLAND 8t: KNIGHT LLP 9 By: ALAN J. WATSON Attorney at Law 10 633 West Fifth Street, 21st Floor Los Angeles, California 90071-2040 11 (213)896-2400 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 _ 23' l 24r s E p `Z 1 2000 , Z5 I SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 I N D E X 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 EXAMINATION PAGE 3 3 By Mr. Cohen ------------------------- 183 4 4 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE) 5 5 OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 6 E X H I B I T S California Corporation, ) 7 Page 6 ) Plaintiff, ) 8 Plaintiff's Description Marked 7 ) 9 L60 Existing conditions site plan 190 VS. ) Case No. OOCCO6309 (Retained by deponent) 8 ) HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, a ) Volume 11 10 11 161 Existing conditions site plan used to prepare Exhibit 160 191 9 Delaware Limited Liability ) (Pages 175-280) 12 162 Conceptual site plan with no 192 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL ) Burlington Coat and Montgomery IO PROPERTIES, a Delaware Limited ) 13 Ward Liability Company; THE EZRALOW ) 14 163 Conceptual site plan with 194 11 COMPANY, a Delaware Limited ) Burlington Coat and Montgomery Liability Company and DOES 1 ) 15 Ward 12 through 10, inclusive, ) 16 164 Conceptual site plan putting 198 theater on east side of center 13 Defendants. ) — 17 165 Conceptual site plan eliminating 201 14 18 Burlington Coat 15 19 166 Conceptual site plan putting 202 16 theater over Burlington 17 20 18 Deposition of FRANK CODA, Volume 11, taken on 167 Conceptual site plan eliminating 203 19 behalf of the Plainta BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE 21 Burlington Coat 20 OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., before Cathy A. Wood, Registered 22 168 Conceptual Site plan eliminating 204 21 Professional Reporter and Certified Shorthand Reporter No. Burlington Coat 22 2825, at Greenburg-Farrow, 15101 Redhill Avenue, Second 23 23 Floor, Tustin, California, commencing at 10:25 a.m., on 169 Conceptual site plan plot date 209 24 Friday, August 25, 2000. 25 24 25 170 7/28/99 Refined conceptual site plan 214 176 177 178 1 (Pages 175 to 178) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 I N D E X 3 EXHIBITS 4 5 Page Plaintiffs Description Marked 6 7 171 Conceptual site plan re Costco 215 8 l72 Conceptual site plan increasing 218 amount of public area 9 U3 Conceptual site plan moving 219 10 Circuit City adjacent to Mervyn's l 1 174 Conceptual site plan with larger 2-11 public area, 12/2199 12 175 Conceptual site plan with 223 13 breakdown of some of the larger users into smaller retailers 14 176 Conceptual site plan adding Sean 224 15 177 Conceptual site plan, milestone 224 16 plan but missing theme, 1211199 17 178 Conceptual site plan, milestone 226 plan with Sean 18 179 Alternate site plan l with 226 19 increase square footage of 10,000 feet, 11/16/99 '_0 I80 Alternate site plan 2 12 16/99 227 21 181 Conceptual site plan, one-story 228 22 Sean building, 12/=99 23 182 Master site plan with theater 1-19 over retail users, new concept 24 of streets, 12/27/99 25 l , I N D E X 3 EXHIBITS 4 Page 5 Plaintiffs Description Marked 6 183 Master site plan p 0041 with 231 7 different paving pattern, 1/5/00 8 184 Master site plan #0110, view issue 232 from 405, 115100 9 185 Hand -drawn footpring of existing 233 to -superstructure, 115100 it 186 Conceptual site plan with winding 234 road, 1/5/00 12 187 Conceptual site plan re geometry 236 13 of restaurants and two-story buildings 14 188 Design sketch plan with focus 240 15 on western side, plot date 2f7/00 16 189 Site plan creating the specific 241 site plan exhibit, 2/17/00 17 190• Specific site plan A, 3/8/00 242 18 191 Specific site plan 8 with 243 19 Burling Coat, 3/8/00 20 192 Specific site plan with reduced 247 square footage, 322/00 21 193 Conceptual site plan moving theater 248 22 to first level, plot date 7/31/00 23 194 Conceptual site plane with 251 Burlington Coat and theater on 24- first level, plot date 7/31/00 25 179 180 rzRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER l 2 I N D E X 3 EXHIBITS 4 Page 5 Plaintiffs Description Marked 6 195 Cole's department store plan 251 7 196 Invoices from deponent's company 252 8 ' 197 Elevation rendering view of 254 9 eastern street scape, 12/14/99 to 198 Elevation rendering view of Strada 255 Road and Edinger, no date i l (Retained by deponent) 12 199 Elevation rendering view of 405 256 comer 13 (Retained by deponent) 14 200 Elevation rendering view of 257 southeast comer 15 (Retained by deponent' 16 201 Front elevation rendering for 258 Great Indoors 17 (Retained by deponent) 18 202 Elevation rendering view from 258 Edinger Street of Village Strada 19 (Retained by deponent) 20 203 Elevation renderings from 261 September -October time period 21 (Retained by deponent) 22 204 Elevation rendering with bridges 262 (Retained by deponent) 23 205 Perspective rendering with 264 24 turnaround road (Retained by deponent) 25 I I N D E X 2 3 EXHIBITS 4 Page 5 Plaintiffs Description Marked 6 206 Elevation rendering of building 265 7 facade (Retained by deponent) 8 207 Color and material board of 266 9 common area (Retained by deponent) 10 208 Board with paint color sample 267 11 chips (Retained by deponent) Elevation south and east renderings 269 from December time period (Retained by deponent) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 rKRA INFORMATION REQUESTED (None) 181 182 2 (Pages 179 to 182) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS . A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 ,' FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BU►.__lNGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Friday, August 25, 2000, 10:25 a.m Tustin, California FRANK CODA, was called as a witness by and on behalf of the Plaintiff, and having been first duly swom by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. COHEN: Q Can you state and spell your name for the record., A My name is Frank Coda, that's C-o-d-a. Q Okay. And this is the second session of your deposition and the first session was on July 27, 2000. Do you remember the admonitions that I gave you to tell the truth and nothing but the truth? A Yes, I do. Q So all -- A I was gonna say, what's admonitions. Q All the admonitions I told you before, they apply in this session. That's acceptable to you? A That's acceptable to me. Q Okay. I got a quick question for you. 183 A Surely. Q Now that Edwards Cinema has filed bankruptcy, what's -- how is that affecting the developing? A I don't know. I mean I don't know. I just heard about -- I think we all heard about it yesterday or day before. So — I guess what I heard on the radio, which is public, is they are planning to — they're planning to still keep the more profitable ones in business and close all the smaller ones. So I presume they would still pursue this site, although I don't know how they do that under bankruptcy. That's not my expertise. But certainly — regardless who goes here, it's gonna be a very good location for a theater use. Q Have there been other theater companies? A Yeah, we -- Ezralow has talked to other theater companies Q- Who are they? — A- I was aware they talked to Sony, and they had -- they had mentioned to me they talked to some others, but they didn't reveal who. the people were. But there's certainly other theater guys out there. Q At this time you don't know how the bankruptcy for Edwards is gonna affect the development? A No, I do not Q Was Edwards given any specific design 184 1 qualifications or specifications? 2. A What do you mesa!? 3 Q Were they — have there been discussions that 4 Edwards wanted ten, you know — 5 A Oh, how many like theaters? 6 Q Yes, exactly. 7 A Well, actually it works the other way. They say 8 we think we should be able to do this many units in this 9 location. So actually they gave as what they thought. 10 Q - That's right. So Edwards tells you their 11 specifications? 12 A Right- 13 Q And that was the only theater company to date 14 that has given — that you know of that is giving 15 specifications? 16 A To our— yeah, I suspect when they were talking 17 to the other theater companies, Ezralow would have — 18 that's usually the — the main issue, I mesa how many 19 screens you're gonna do, I guess, is the lingo. 'Cause 1 20 would say that has an impact on a lot of issues of how big 21 the facility is and bow much parking you need and all that. 22 So the number of screens would be key to anyone 23 that was — on either side, the theater company would want 24 to have an idea how many screens they want to do 'cause 25 that's how they run their proforma, and the developer would 185 t want to know how many screens are planned so they can plan 2 accordingly. 3 Q Has Ezralow informed you of any specifications 4 for how many screens for this project? 5 A We have met with Edward's architect In fact, we 6 met with him occasionally over the past three or roar 7 months, and I think the lightest I heard, and it changes, 8 you know, they're — that's not a science either. And so I 9 thought we were is the 18 range currently, 18 screens. 10 Q The present status, has any demolition permits 11 been pulled yet? 12 A No, oot that — no. 13 Q Than — 14 A Not that I know o4 but I doubt they had. 15 Q Do you know if any specific contractors have been 16 hired? 17 A We have — again, I mentioned before, we have 18 been working within certain contractors that I had 19 mentioned before. 20 Q That would be the Dinovitzes? 21 A Well, no, they're not contractors. They're a 22 construction management — uh, I don't — was it — I could 23 look that ups but there has been a couple of contractors we 24 interviewed, and we've been talking about to —'cause we 25 want to bring in a contractor daring the development of all 186 3 (Pages 183 to 186) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - I the plan so that we — we get the best price, you know, 2 value, and it's best to have a contractor that you work 3 with. 4 Q That's right And from the time -- from July 5 17th, the time of our last deposition till today, has there 6 been any further developments in regard to retaining or 7 hiring contractors? 8 A Not that I'm aware of. I think we're still 9 dealing with the city process, as far as I know. 10 Q And as far as you know, where are you -- where is 11 Ezralow at in regards to the city process? 12 A I believe we are — let's see. The — what was 13 the one document we kept looking at? The — I'm sorry. 14 Q The specific claim? 15 A Right. I think that's as far as we've gotten. I 16 don't think anything has progressed in the city process 17 since the last time. So this specific plan, which 1 18 believe we all determined had actually been approved by the 19 city? Was that correct? 20 Q I believe so. 21 A That's what I thought — yes. 22 Q Do you know if any funds have been deposited with 23 the city from Ezralow? 24 A I don't. I don't know. 25 Q And have any plans been finalized? 187 l A No. 2 Q Has there been any further work regarding plans, 3 designing -- design plans from the time of the deposition 4 till today? 5 A Like I said before, we continued to monkey around 6 with various pieces, various users as they come into play. 7 But that's been the same thing from day one. So I guess 8 yes, but was it impacting any major site plan design, no.. 9 I mean this is minor adjustments. Like I say, we have 10 another user, they want to get in this area, okay. So we 11 go and study a little section of it and say okay, what do 12 you think about this and that. 13 Q Has there been a decision yet regarding whether 14 the site plan that includes Burlington will be the site 15 plan chosen? 16 A No. I don't know any — any decision on any site 17 plan at this point. 18 Q Have you been working with anyone from the city 19 from the time of July 27 till today? Have you been working 20 with anyone from the city regarding the site plans and how 21 it should look? 22 A No. I mean basically, I think we are — we have 23 the specific plan approved, and now we have to finalize the 24 site, what it is, what are we gonna do. Because that's a 25 guideline, the specific plan is a guideline, and now it's 188 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 in our court to figure out what we want to do. And then we 2 go back to the city and make application for final permits, 3 if you will. 4 So at this point we're still doing all that, and 5 obviously in light of this action, there's — you're not 6 gonna — it would be unwise for anyone to finalize anything 7 until this is resolved, so — 8 Q How many meetings have you had with any Ezralow 9 personnel from July 27th till today? 10 A Me personally, none. 11 Q Anyone from GFA? 12 A Our staff— yeah. we usually meet with them once 13 a week or once every other week. Again, we have multiple 14 projects with them, so we have kind of an every other week 15 or every week meeting. We cover all projects. 16 Q And has the Huntington Center been covered, the 17 mall in Huntington Beach? 18 A To the extent that users have expressed interest 19 to Ezralow, that's what they've had as kinds look at in 20 detailed planning sort of way. 21 Q Okay. I'd like to — we have a whole stack of 22 site plans, and I'd like to take a look at them. And we're 23 going to mark them as exhibits, and I think what will 24 happen then is you ll then copy them for us. You give 25 us the invoice of your costs, and then we will pay those 189 1 costs. And the copies will then be given to the court 2 reporter, and she will prepare it 3 A Okay. 4 Q Is that okay? 5 A Sure. These are — right now they are not in any 6 kind of order. Do you want to try and — put them in 7 order. 8 MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record. 9 (Brief recess was taken.) 10 MR. COHEN: Let's go back on the record. Well mark 11 for identification as Exhibit 160, I believe, Mr. Coda, can 12 you give a description of Exhibit 160. 13 (Whereupon the above -referred to 14 document was marked Plaintiffs 15 Exhibit 160 for identification by 16 the Court Reporter, and retained 17 by deponent.) 18 THE WITNESS: Exhibit 160 is an existing conditions 19 site plan that we have put into our computer system since 20 it's been plotted out So this is the existing conditions. 21 We took this actually from -- I think I saw the -- the one 22 that we did not create. I want to always, as we go through 23 this, take out duplicates so that we don't -- so we can 24 kind of put them to the side. 25 Thought I had seen another one. There may be 190 4 (Pages 187 to 190) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, VOL. 2, 08.25.00 SUt«INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 another one. I thought there is. But, anyway, this is what we acquired — was given to us by our client at the start of the project -- actually not quite at the start of the project — after we started talking about it which was an existing site plan from the Macerich Company, M-a-c-e-r-i-c-h. BY MR. COHEN: Q And so that's the same as 160, and well mark for identification as 161 -- A What was given -- this was the actual document given to us. Q Was 160 what GFA created from -- A 161. Q -- 161? A That would be correct Q And this is the,way the center looks today? A That is correct. Q Okay. Now, let's move on. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 161 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record. (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 191 MR. COHF24: Let's go back on the record. THE WITNESS: Some of this is going to be talking about plan to see if we want to make an exhibit; correct? MR. COHEN: Yeah. Exactly. Okay. THE WITNESS: I know it's kinda weird, but it's the only way I know how to do this. MR. COHEN: Yeah, let's go off the record. (Off-the-record discussion was held.) MR. COHEN: Well mark as -- let's go back on the record. BY MR. COHEN: Q And I just, have a quick question. Exhibits 161 and 160, do you know when you were given these, approximately, or GFA was given these? A It would have been in June, July, August -- last summer sometime- Q Okay. Of '99? A RighL. MR. COHEN: Okay. Well mark for identification as Exhibit 163 MR. WATSON: 162. MR. COHEN: 162. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 162 for identification 192 1 by the Court Reporter, a copy of 2 which is attached hereto.) 3 BY MR. COHEN: 4 Q Mr. Coda, what is 162? 5 A 162 is a conceptual site plan that we produced. 6 It was our first shot at reusing — maybe not the first 7 shot. I shouldn't say that, 'cause I'm not exactly sure of 8 the order. We were studying a bunch of stuff. But early 9 on, let's put it that way, of what we could do with the 10 center, the existing center. 11 Q Was this after the purchase -- Ezralow's purchase 12 of the center? 13 A No, way prior to. 14 Q This was prior to the purchase? 15 A Yeah, June, July, last summer sometime. 16 Q So prior to Ezralow's purchase, they were working 17 with GFA to determine how to redevelop the mall; is that 18 correct? 19 A That's correct. That's standard in the industry. 20 Q Okay. In 162, is Burlington depicted? 21 A No. 22 Q The existing Burlington — 23 A No. Burlington is not depicted and nor is 24 Montgomery Wards. 25 Q So the Burlington — the existing Burlington 193 1 space would have been razed in this Exhibit 162? 2 A Well, we were razing the whole — this whole mall 3 was razed. 4 Q I see. 5 A From day one, like I told you last time, we 6 didn't see any an in the whole — of trying to reuse the 7 center. 8 Q I see. Okay. Let's move on to the next one. 9 A We have a series of plans during the early 10 stage& You can see we used a background and -- of the 11 existing and just kinda went over it. That's why I was 12 showing you the one that had the whited -out portion. 13 Q That's right. 14 MR. COHEN: Well mark as Exhibit 163 a conceptual 15 plan of Huntington Beach Center. 16 (Whereupon the above -referred to 17 . document was marked Plaintiffs 18 Exhibit 163 for identification by 19 the Court Reporter, a copy of 20 which is attached hereto.) 21 BY MR. COHEN: 22 Q Mr. Coda, give a description of 163, if you can. 23 A This is a plan, again, we were starting to play 24 with what — what would make sense for the center. In this 25 case, we were leaving the Montgomery Wards and the 194 5 (Pages 191 to 194) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 Bariiegtori Coat and seeing what kind of open space. Again. 1 2 back to the original concept, we always thought we wanted 2 3 to create something unique, something that was an outdoor 3 4 experience. And so we were — we felt the public spaces, 4 5 the outdoor public spaces would be key to making a 5 6 successful center in that regards. 6 7 So in this case, we looked at leaving Montgomery 7 8 Wards and Burlington. We added a theater between the two. 8 9 And as you can see, the space -- left over space is kinda 9 10 blab. 10 1 I Q 163, when was this created? 11 12 A This would have been created, again, same time as 12 13 162. I think actually what's going to happen, as we see 13 14 the next coming plans, we were studying a bunch of 14 15 concepts. And we came to conclusion that 162 started to 15 16 give us a much better public space. 16 17 Q I see. 17 18 A So probably in timing, 163 was a study before 162. 18 19 Q 163 predates 162? 19 20 A Right. 'Cause these are kinds studies on, okay, 20 21 what can you do with leaving Montgomery, Mervyn's, 21 22 Burlington and still we knew there was a theater component 22 23 because of the — just needed a theater component. And 23 24 then what residual did you have to develop a center from. 24 25 Q And 162 and 163 then were both prior to the 25 195 1 purchase, Ezralow's purchase of the center? 1 2 . _ A I would — just so you know, I'd say the next— 2 3 -I don't believe they purchased until December, if I 3 4 remember correctly. 4 5 Q Okay. 5 6 A So we've got a good chunk before we purchased. 6 7 Q Okay. And the purchase -- you believe that the 7 8 purchase date was — so when we say prior to purchase, you 8 9 believe that's before December '99; is that correct? 9 10 A Yeah. I'm not sure of the actual closing date, 10 11 but I know it was somewhere in the fall or winter of — 11 12 winter of'99. 12 13 Q Okay. Very good 13 14 Now, 163, you said that — which includes 14 15 Burlington, can you sort of describe further the 15 16 difficulty — the problems that — 16 17 A This presented. 17 18 Q- — this 163 had? .. 18 19 A Well, for one, the location of Burlington 19 20 building itself is — does not give us -- we wanted an 20 21 interior courtyard or what have you -- something inside 21 22 because we wanted to block out all the surrounding traffic. 22 23 I mean you wanted to -- the ides is you hinds go into an 23 24 oasis away from the hectic traffic and the freeway. 24 25 The location of the building is fairly close to 25 196 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER the main drive across the Edinger side of the project and didn't leave a lot of room to get descent sized buildings and as well as leave a courtyard or something that was nice. So that location, Burlington Coat building location limited the ability to produce what we were after the concept of an oasis with good retailers and stuff like that. The other thing is the existing building has a loading facility, again, facing Center Avenue. And, again. we've always envisioned this as we discussed last time as a three -sided site. And so you — you want the -- the look from the — from all the streets to -- to be a nice look. To be enticing, if you will. Q Okay. The — there's two plans that are made part of the specific plan 13. A That's correct. Q And I have it here. One of the site plans includes the Burlington structure. In the plan that includes the Burlington structure that's made a part of SP-123, had the problems that you've talked about, have those been taken care of or do they still exist? A No, they still exist. This Exhibit 5A — 5A, level 2, this is level 2, but it does show without the Burlington, whereas Exhibit 5B of specific plan shows the 197 Burlington budding still there. And, as you can see, the courtyard is — is not nearly as — as well defined, as nice. We were able to get a much -- a much nicer central irea than this, in that case. Now, as you can see, we were able to develop a little bit further some of the buildings along the front here, but by — you know what we did do is we didn't have -- we move, in this case, in Exhibit 163, we were inserting the theater between Montgomery Wards and Burlington which was problematic. So the solution in Exhibit 5B ­ Q To use SP-13? A To SP-13. We had moved the theater to the second level, which is what the concept had been prior to even looking at a Burlington Coat scenario. Q So that would have give a little more space -- A Correct Q -- than what was available at 163? A Correct Q Okay. A Next? MR. COIN: Next. Well mark as Exhibit 164. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 164 for identification by 198 6 (Pages 195 to 198) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 SUOFRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 NGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 the Court Reporter, a copy of 1 2 which is attached hereto.) 2 3 BY MR. COHEN: 3 4 Q Mr. Coda, if you can give a description of 164. 4 5 A 164 is a site plan, all conceptual in nature, in 5 6 which we looked at moving — because of those issues we had 6 7 talked about the theater between Montgomery Wards and 7 8 Burlington, we moved the theater to the other end to see if 8 9 that would help resolve the problem. 9 10 There was a little bit of improvement, however, 10 11 if you know the site, the visibility from the freeway is — 11 12 is kind of key to the success -- it's key to a successful 12 13 center as well. 13 14 And by putting a large theater complex, second — 14 15 and they were -- again, they were talking about a second 15 16 level and a first level for shops to get the retail — the 16 17 square rootage up, this tended to be a large mass at — 17 18 blocking the view from the 405. 18 19 So while on the plan it might have helped solve 19 20 some of our plaza issues, by patting the theater at the 20 21 other end, it definitely impacted the view potential from 21 22 the 405 which we feel is an important -- this — the view 22 23 from the 405 should be one that draws one into the center 23 24 as well. 24 25 And in the final plan we developed, we had left 25 199 1 this open so that people could see that there's activity 1 2 inside and, again, a way to draw people into the — into 2 3 the center. 3 4 Q I see. So Exhibit 1— to recap, if 1 4 5 understand, Exhibit 164, it puts the theater complex on 5 6 the -- 6 7 A East. 7 8 Q --east side of the center. It includes 8 9 Burlington. So this was a possibility to, one, have one of 9 10 the goals of having large common areas? t0 11 A Areas. 11 12 Q Free space, but I guess you were saying that one 12 13 of the difficult — the drawbacks of it was that it reduced 13 14 your visibility from the 405 because the theater complex 14 15 would have been a more massive structure? 15 16 A That is correct. 16 17 Q Okay. Let's move on. 17 18 A Let's see. This might be a duplicate. It 18 19 appears to be that. This looks like the original, and this 19 20 looks like a copy (indicating). 20 21 MR. COHEN: Okay. Let's go off the record for a 21 22 second. 22 23 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 23 24 MR. COHEN: We're back on the record. Let's move on 24 25 to the next exhibit which, well mark as Exhibit 165. 25 200 (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 165 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Give a description of 165, if you can. A 165 is a plan where we had eliminated the Burlington Coat building and put the theater complex right in its place, basically, and trying to accomplish our goals of getting the view In and having the theater -- theater building -- since it will be so massive, to anchor the view and started to create the courtyards that we were envisioning to begin with. You'll see, we still had something between -- a building between the tbeaar building and Montgomery Wards. and we weren't sure what to do with that. There was at some point in time, we thought maybe some more retail. But this would be a very difficult space to lease. so — Q Right. So basically 16 -- A 5. Q 5, this scheme or plan has been rejected; is that correct? A Right. 201 Q Okay. Move on. A But, again, it was another concept. Okay — MR. COHEN: Well mark as Exhibit 166. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 166 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Give a description of that. A 166, this was a — another concept we were looking at in which we were keeping some of the existing buildings, Montgomery Wards and Burlington Coat, and we looked at putting the theater building over them. I should say not over the Burlington Coat, you see the dash line around it, but we looked at trying to get a theater building over that. Again, the intent is to the view and the massing. It did allow as to start to look at, again, the plaza level on the visible side and get some additional retail underneath the theater building on the Edinger side of the site and perhaps another retailer between the Burlington Coat and the Mervyn -- existing Mervyn's building. We were planning to have truck access underneath for all the users. 202 7 (Pages 199 to 202) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 Part of the problem with this plan is the 1 2 geometry of the theater was not — theaters have a hard 2 3 time with an L-shaped footprint, because the existing 3 4 Burlington Coat building is that three-story building that 4 5 we talked about. We couldn't build over it, and it also 5 6 was blocking a view if we wanted — this would look as one 6 7 mass. And we could reface it, but it was an internal 7 8 problem for the theaters to take on that L-shaped 8 9 configuration. 9 l0 Q I see. 10 11 A So, again, another sketch that we look at, 'cause 11 12 when you go through design, you try and not — you try and 12 13 do, okay, what are all the opportunities, what are the 13 14 possibilities. And that's what all this — all these 14 15 earlier. exhibits are. 15 16 Q 1 see. 16 17 A So there's another variation. 17 18 Q And 166 was rejected? 18 19 A That's correct. 19 20 Q Okay. 20 21 A Next one? 21 22 MR. COHEN: Well mark as -- for identification as 167. 22 23 (Whereupon the above -referred to 23 24 document was marked Plaintiffs 24 25 Exhibit 167 for identification by 25 203 1 the Court Reporter, a copy of 1 2 which is attached hereto.) 2 3 BY MR. COHEN: 3 4 Q What is this? 4 5 A 167 is yet again another conceptual site plan. 5 6 We were taking some of the concepts and thoughts we had on 6 7 the past ones and trying to reflne them. 7 8 In this one, we did eliminate the Burlington Coat 8 9 building, and the theater is over some retail in a location 9 10 we felt that would start to work for our view issue and 10 11 creating our plaza areas. And so this was starting to — 11 12 this was the beginning of getting towards what we felt was 12 13 a good solution for the development of the site. 13 14 Q Does this include the Montgomery Wards structure? 14 15 A This one does: — 15 16 Q Okay. Move on. 16 17 MR. COHEN: Off the record. 17 18 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 18 19 MR. COHEN: Well mark for identification Exhibit 168. 19 20 (Whereupon the above -referred to 20 21 document was marked Plaintiffs 21 22 Exhibit 168 for identification by 22 23 the Court Reporter, a copy of 23 24 which is attached hereto.) 24 25 BY MR. COHEN: 25 204 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q Can you give a description of this? A 168 is a — basically a more refined version of 167. Like I said, we thought we were on track with plan 167 — with Exhibit 167. And so we now went ahead and put this in our computer system, and we started to develop more detail. You will see our — our public space started to add fountains and a pool and art, a major staircase leading up to the theater complex. At the time we also had been contemplating two-story — separate two-story users around the courtyard. So as you can see in the second floor plan section of this exhibit, we have the theater which -- and then some retailers with balconies that went all the way around and went to a freestanding building that was on the east end of the center. So we started to develop — this was where we really felt we wanted to be with our outdoor area. Q Where was this second floor plan that's on the left side of the page, where would it sit? A You can see these lines come to here, so this would be the back side of the theater (indicating). It would sit right over this box and then — Q So basically it would sit over the area that is a retail 37,250 square feet? 205 A Yes. We were putting the theater over largest users to try and hide them: Generally largest users don't have windows. They're not really exciting. Whereas some of the smaller tenants you get to windows. Again, having a feeling of a village, something nice, something you can feel good about. This is the plan we started to present to Ezralow. Q I see. A I guess maybe all the previous plans were internal. We were doing our own license to be — creative license to do that. None of those felt good. This is the plan we submitted to Ezralow. I think this is where we went ahead. Q I see. So 168 was one of the first plans or was it the first plan that you presented to Ezralow? A It might have been. I won't — it will be right in there with like — this is what we think — this is what we recommend you do with this project. Q I see. When Ezralow gave you this commission, retained you, they said -- did they give you carte blanche? A Yes. Q To raze whatever you wanted? A They said no — no rules. Please — we want something unique and dynamic and special. So don't be limited by what exists. 206. 8 (Pages 203 to 206) 7ILIO Bit ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BUA_. 'NGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I Q I see. They didn'ttell you about any — did 1 2 they give you any instructions that certain existing 2 3 retailers need to be included? 3 4 A Not at this —not in that summer of last year. 4 5 Again, it was, you know, what can you do. 5 6 Q I see. Prior to purchase, prior to December'99? 6 7 A Prior — right. 7 8 Q Correct. 8 9 A Just we — they — they said they were looking at 9 IO this piece of property. I remember Doug Gray called me, t0 11 said do you know the mail 405, Huntington Beach. I said 11 12 yeah, I was happy just to bear somebody was doing something 12 13 with it. So he said we're probably gonna take a run at it.. 13 14 I'll send over some information. Why don't you guys see 14 15 what you can do to make it something special, 15 16 So, like I said, this is where we ended up after 16 17 our studies of all those — those Exhibits 160 what — 162 17 18 through 167 is our internal study looking at stuff what's 18 19 going on, how can we use, not use, blab. blah, blah. And 19 20 we landed on this is probably something that makes some 20 21 sense. 21 22 Q Do you know when, approximately, the time -- the 22 23 date that you presented this to Ezralow? 23 24 A I would be thinking it's in that June -July time. 24 25 I think we have some plans coming up that we saw some dates 25 207 1 on. But this might even be in May. It's in that — we 1 2 probably took about, if I recall, we did the Exhibits 1 2 3 through —163 through 167 probably in about two or three 3 4 weeks after the call. After we got the information. 4 5 Q Uh-huh. 5 6 A So, you know, we did two or three weeks of 6 7 studying, and then we — you can actually — you know, you 7 8 can see this — we put — we dolled it up with the trees, 8 9 and, you know, it's kind of more of a presentation thing. 9 10 so— 10 11 Q And who was there at the presentation? I1 12 A It would have been Doug, Doug Gray and myself 12 13 were going over the staff 13 14 Q Was Scott Dinovitz there? 14 15 A No. 15 16 Q Did you ever — is there a retainer agreement 16 17 between GFA and Ezralow? — 17 18 A No.. 18 19 Q There's no written retainer agreement? 19 20 A No. No, we — this is — this project is — this 20 21 will be our third project with them, and at that point in 21 22 time, they were good paying client. We didn't see any need 22 23 for a retainer.. 23 24 Q So how do you bill? Just monthly? 24 25 A Monthly on an hourly basis. 25 208 Q And the bills are sent to -- A We would send a copy — we would send the bill to two people, one to Doug Gray and one to Christina Hughes. Q Do you have — do you have invoices? A Sane. Q Those weren't presented to us, though, is that -- A No, I don't think — I didn't think they were relative. All it says is who — what position and how many hours and their hourly rate. Q Does it give other descriptions of the work that was done? A Yes, but in — I mean I'm not afraid to show it to you, just says "Conceptual Site Plan," I mean very broad. Q I would like to take a look at the invoices. A Sure. Q I think it's relevant for us. Okay. Let's move on, though. A Okay. MR. COHEN: Well mark for identification as Exhibit — where are we, 169, another site plan. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 169 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of 209 which is attached hereto) BY MR. COHEN: Q Mr. Coda, if you can tell us what this is. A 169. And, actually, if you look on the corner there, we start to see a date. So that plot date is July 28th of'". Is that what it says there? Q Yes. A So that's gonna give you a feel for all this prior work would have been close — prior to that or close to. This — this particular Exhibit 169 is similar to 168 is — in plan. It looks like they were looking at adding a pad building along Edinger. You can see on 168 we have a 5,000 square foot restaurant right along Edinger, whereas in 169 we have a -- as unidentified square footage but a different footprint in that same location. So we were looking at that. And perhaps, you know, perhaps it was actually reversed In time, 'cause I think this was a footprint of a building that used to exist Q It no longer exists? A No, it no longer exists, but I think we found it on one of our — is it on the — right. You can see it back on 161. You can vaguely see that dashed -in building. So more than likely 169 was a base that we used to produce 210 9 (Pages 207 to 210) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 168. 1 2 Q Okay. 2 3 A So that gives you sometime of 168 somewhere 3 4 around the end of July. We were coming to a conclusion on 4 5 what we believe is the best reuse of the center and 5 6 presenting that. So that's what 169 is. This is probably 6 7 the base plan, if you would, for that. 7 8 Q And 169 does not include the Burlington space, 8 9 does it? 9 10 A No, it does not. Again, we came to the 10 i 1 conclusion that when the Burlington building is just in a 11 12 bad location and is too massive and it didn't accomplish 12 13 what we had envisioned, so away it went. 13 14 Q Away it went. When you say "we," who is — 14 15 A That's GFA. 15 16 Q GFA? 16 17 A Again, we were studying the site with those 17 18 early -on exhibits, and nothing — we didn't feel we could 18 19 get anything that we felt good about. So we were 19 20 recommending to our client to do the 168 plan. 20 21 Q I see. Which excludes — 21 22 A Excludes the Burlington. 22 23 Q -- Burlington space? 23 24 A Correct. 24 25 Q What were the comments of Doug Gray at the time? 25 211 L A He said that it was okay. It wasn't exactly the 2 wow that he was looking for. And so, you know, kinds sent 3 us back a little bit to the drawing board. 4 But some of the concepts he did like. For 5 instance, the — putting the theater over the larger users, 6 creating a — I'm going to refer back to 168, that has more 7 of the detail, creating a nice open area that had some 8 fountains and features that you can envision people sitting 9 at tables and eating and, you know, doing their little 10 social thing. Yet, still having a draw for the retail and 11 the restaurant. 12 And so there was some things they liked about it, 13 but it wasn't — be was looking for something special, 14 something unique in the marketplace. 15 And like we talked about last time, we had looked 16 at Spectrum and The Block at Orange and Fashion Island, and 17 we knew we didn't want to repeat those, but needed a unique L8 identifier. And to some degree we agreed. This wasn't 19 different in that respect. I mean and so we continued on 20 with okay. But, in general, we got — we got an indication 21 that we're heading in the right direction. 22 Q 1 see. In regard to the Burlington space -- that 23 it was gonna be razed, that it was no longer gonna be 24- there, did Mr. Gray or anyone from Ezralow make any comment 25 on that? 212 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A No, no. He asked why — perhaps why we decided to eliminate that and not the Mervyn's or Montgomery Wards. And we felt those two buildings were — first off, we felt Montgomery Wards was on the — what I'll call the far side of the center. It is on the west side, and it has its tire and battery installation, and that's kind of its own use. And why not just leave that in place. So we made a separation between the west side of the center and the east side. We talked about Burlington. But, again, as I mentioned in the past, we felt the massing of it, and the location of it was just —just — it hindered the design solution. Q Right. But what were Doug Gray's specific comments on that or any Ezralow personnel? A He just said okay. He was still more focused on cresting a unique identifier. Because, again, he gave us direction to have carte blanche. If anything, it was why did you keep those. I said you could get rid of everything if you wanted to, so some systems we do try to play practical bat. Q At the time of creation of this, Was any concern being given to pricing and retailing — A No. Q -- factors regarding Mervyn's and whatnot or pure architectural? 213 A Pure architectural, pure creation of something unique. AH those other factors at this point were immaterial Q Okay. Let's move on. Next. MR. WATSON: You want to go off record. (Off-the-record discussion was held.) MR. COHEN: Okay. We're back on the record. Well mark as Exhibit 170 a site plan. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 170 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) BY MR. CORN: Q And what exactly is this? A This — this is starting to get down into developing more detail, you know, the second story we've gotten — we're looking at the balconies. Before — didn't we look at that before? Q Yeah, we did in 168. A So this is continuing to refine 168 as far as, one, getting — it probably could be as simple as that 168 was all on a big page. And so can we move it down here. I mean we'll do that, too. Reformat it jttst so it's more presentable. 214 -1 10 (Pages 211 to 214) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 LANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLI . , 'ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 I think in concept this is the same as 168, just, 1 2 like I say, maybe a little different format for 2 3 presentation. We've added a title block. We moved the 3 4 second story plan to below. The main site plan — doesn't 4 5 seem like there's much difference beyond that. 5 6 MR. CORN: Okay. Mark as Exhibit 1.71 another site 6 7 plan. 7 8 (Whereupon the above -referred to 8 9 document was marked Plaintiffs 9 10 Exhibit 171 for identification by 10 11 the Court Reporter, a copy of 11 12 which is attached hereto.) 12 13 BY MR. COHEN: 13 14 Q Give us a brief description to identify this, 14 15 171. 15 16 A 171 is, in essence the same as 168, or I should 16 17 say 170. However, we had a request from our client to 17 18 locate a Costco wholesale club on the site in the location 18 19 of -- on the west portion of the project 19 20 Q That was gonna take up the Mervyn's area? 20 21 A No. Mervyn's was still — 21 22 Q Excuse me, the Montgomery Wards? 22 23 A Montgomery was taken — the Montgomery and their 23 24 tire and battery outlet needed to grr to meet Costco's 24 25 parking. So we did this plan — we didn't — we advised we 25 215 1 don't think it's a good mix for the center. But, again, 1 2 this is put it on there and see what it looks like. So 2 3 this is the result of that 3 4 Q And do you know where Costco stands in the 4 5 ' development of the mall? 5 6 A No, I don't, no. 6 7 Q Okay. When these — from 160 to 171 -- Exhibits 7 8 160 to 171, was the city giving any input? 8 9 A No. 9 10 Q In what design plans? 10 1 1 A No. 11 12 Q Or what they wanted to see? 12 13 A This is all — up until now it's still all 13 14 internal. Internal to the development, I should say. 14 15 Q When you say "up until now," "now" being today or 15 16 "now" up until the time that these — -- 16 17 A No, I meant — sorry, wrong word, not "now." Up 17 18 until the starting of the specific plan document, city had 18 19 not been Involved, which was somewhere -- don't quote me on 19 20 it — well, you can quote me. 20 21 Q She can quote you. 21 22 A Somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe February, 22 23 March, somewhere in there. January, February or March we 23 24 started to work on the specific plan. And that's when 24 25 we -- actually, not us, this is Scott Dinovitz, his role 25 216 was dealing with the city. Q Okay. Let's move on. MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 172 -- let's go off the record for a second. (Off-the-record discussion was held.) MR. COHEN: Let's go on the record for a second. We just — there's some duplicates in here, and there was one with a different plot date, and we're not going to mark it as an exhibit, but this plot date is October '99. Q Is that — is this October'99, it's identical to Exhibit 171, which has a plot date of February 25, 2000; is that correct? A That's correct Q Just so we have it on the record, what is a plot date? A A plot date is a date of the actual — the actual date that the drawing is plotted out of the computer. It's not the creation of the drawing. That's a different date which is as, for an example, 171, we have a date of 9/23. So the actual drawing and creation of the drawing was 9/23/99. But, as you indicated, we plotted it on February 25th, 2000, for -some reason. Could have been somebody grabbed the wrong Me and plotted the wrong one. I do not know why. Just could be any reason. And thet . 217 duplicate one we talked about, which was plotted on October 21st, the duplicate of Exhibit 171, again, that " that would be the day the 9/23 drawing was actually plotted out of the computer. Q Okay. And the plot dates are in the -- on the side of the lower left corner, is that correct? A That's correct Q And the drawing date, the date that it was actually — A Created. Q -- created, the creation date, that's gonna be in the lower right-hand comer where underneath the — A Kinda the title block. Q The title block? A Indicates the scale and the kind of the name of the plan and the project number and all that stuff. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 172 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which Is attached hereto.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Okay. Well mark for identification as Exhibit 172 -- what is Exhibit 172? A 172 is a drawing in which very similar to — 218 11 (Pages 215 to 218) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 well. not so. I take that back. 1 2 It is different in some of the users. I guess at 2 3 this point in time we were — from the last plan of Exhibit 3 4 171, we started to look at increasing the amount of public 4 5 area. As I indicated before, in 171 we had a nice public 5 6 area, but it was not enough. 6 7 So we went back and started to look at extending 7 8 that public area. We — in this scheme you'll see a lot of 8 9 different things. We have a Sears with a theater above in 9 10 the Montgomery Wards position. We have a Montgomery Wards 10 11 between the Mervyn's and this center. And we have a 11 12 Circuit City in the middle of the center. And we also 12 13 started to -- we had had larger retailers on the — what 1 13 14 call the more visible in the eastern end, eastern end of 14 15 the center. 15 16 MR. COHEN: Okay. Let's move on. Let's mark as 16 17 Exhibit 173 another site plan. 17 18 (Whereupon the above -referred to 18 19 document was marked Plaintiffs 19 20 Exhibit 173 for identification by 20 21 the Court Reporter, a copy of 21 22 which is attached hereto.) 22 23 BY MR. COHEN: 23 24 Q Give a description of 173. 24 25 A 173 you'll see we moved the Circuit City to 25 219 adjacent to Mervyn's. Again, we felt that the location on I 1 2 172 of Circuit City was similar to the Burlington Coat 2 3 issue with a building in the middle of something -- in the 3 4 middle of the center that didn't fit so well, in our 4 5 opinion. 5 6 By the way, I think all these users and -- and 6 7 stuff of this nature at this point in time, is being 7 8 directed to add these people to the site by our client. 8 9 Q Okay. 9 10 A So -- 10 11 Q So in 172, they — Ezralow — your client 11 12 being -- 12 13 A Ezralow. 13 14 Q — Ezralow, directed you to include a Circuit 14 15 City. Did they tell you what location? 15 16 A No. They — you know, in 172, they said let's 16 17 get a Sears and a Circuit City, maybe move Montgomery 17 18 Wards, maybe put the theater over. I mean their directions 18 19 are usually vague. Here's some users, see what you think. 19 20 So 172 we did that and we said, you know, I 20 21 really -- we really don't think you should put that many 21 22 big users in this mix that we are trying to create in this 22 23 orientation or in this fashion. 23 24 So then we go on to 173 where we moved that 24 25 Circuit City. We put them adjacent to Mervyn's, and we 25 220 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER left the Sears in. We left the Montgomery Wards TBA in with the theater over the Sears MR. WATSON: Do you want to go off the record? MR. COHEN: Yeah, let's go off the record. (Off-the-record discussion was held.) MR. COHEN: Well mark as — we're back on the record. Well mark for identification as Exhibit 174 another site plan. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 174 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) BY MR. COHEN: ' Q Mr. Coda, could you give us a quick description of it and date.. A Sure. This plan is dated on 12/2199, and we are — were still, at this point in the design, we've pretty much convinced all ourselves that we do want to have a lot more of this larger public area. And so this is the kind of a turning — it was a turning point actually back at Exhibit 173, which is back in September when we started to break away from just the public area on the eastern side to a hull length public area. Basically what you have going on here is we've — 221 we are indicating the theater is above a retail of 90,000 square feet where the existing Montgomery Wards is. And we've got some larger users, 25,000 feet or so, we got some two-story on the eastern end still. But we did — this is also a break from the previous scheme where we had two-story retail, but they were separate users. Here we started to say it's very difficult to lease a second story of any retail complex. So we — we were working on getting users that would actually do a two-story concept versus a single users over a single user. We wanted the two-story look, but we didn't want the problems with leasing the second story. So you'll see that this starts to deal with that issue where we have retail E, a retail G, you'll see these are actually two-story users. Q 'Cause it has parentheses? A Meaning total square footage? Q Correct. A Yes. Q And connected with escalator? A Whatever, or elevator. We know some of the users use the two-story concept. So there's 174. MR. COHEN: Well move on to 175 and mark it for identification. (Whereupon the above -referred to 222- 12 (Pages 219 to 222) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 "NK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00, BURLIt ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER n 1 document was marked Plaintiffs 1 2 Exhibit 175 for identification by 2 3 the Court Reporter, a copy of 3 4 which is attached hereto.) 4 5 BY MR. COHEN: 5 6 Q Give us a quick description of 175. 6 7 A 175 is again similar to 174 in some of our 7 8 two-story users, but we're starting to break down some of 8 9 the larger users, which was retail J into smaller 9 10 retailers. Again, we were really after the -- a small to 10 11 medium size users to give that pedestrian scale and 11 12 everything like that. 12 13 Q As to retail J, retail K area? 13 14 A Correct. 14 15 Q And that's where the Burlington space is? 15 16 A Correct. 16 17 Q Okay. 17 18 A Also, we have a difference from the 174 to 175 in 18 19 this square footage of a theater. In 174 is 110, now we're 19 20 120. 20 21 Again, these are hind of the many, many things. 21 22 that go on during this -- this stage. 22 23 Q Right. 23 24 MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record. 24 25 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 25 223 and it's — it is somewhat of another milestone plan, I guess in concept. We mentioned earlier the milestone plan of — of, hold on, I want to get this right — of 168, which was a large open space and then — in the eastern side of the center, and then retailers and theaters above. All that time we're doing all these exhibits we've talked about,170 — 169 through 176,177 we come to a concept that we — we feel — are feeling much better about. It's got the long pedestrian area in the — it's got a lot of little shops. It's got our two-story users. It's got our theater over a retaiL We still, in your client's eyes, were still short on something attractive, something unique. I mean actually in hindsight when you look at this plan to the current plan, it's kinds blah and in that there's nothing special about it in the public spaces. Q The theme hasn't bean created? A The theme is missing, and some of the formal — the formalization of some of the public spaces is not there. This Is more of a hodgepodge of space, not a formalised effort — or a formalized plan which is what we see in the final plan. MR. COHEN: Okay. Mark for identification as Exhibit 178. (Whereupon the above -referred to 225 1 . _ MR. COHEN: Well mark for identification as Exhibit 1 document was marked Plaintiffs 2 176. 2 Exhibit 178 for identification by 3 (Whereupon the above -referred to 3 the Court Reporter, a copy of 4 document was marked Plaintiffs 4 which is attached hereto.) 5 Exhibit 176 for identification by 5 BY MR. COHEN:, 6 the Court Reporter, a copy of 6 Q Just by date give a description of 178. 7 which is attached hereto.) 7 A 178 is basically the same as 177 with the 8 BY MR. COHEN: 8 exception of it's -- it's our milestone plan with the 9 Q Just give a quick description of 176. 9 Sears, and theater is back in over the -- over where 10 A 176 is again similar to 174 and 175 due to the 10 Montgomery Wards was. 11 differences again are above -- this is -- we've now added 11 MR. COHEN: Okay. Let's go off the record for a 12 the Sears and put the theater over The Gap. So before we 12, second. 13 just were going with retail. Now we have a single user of 13 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 14 a much larger square footage, and that's the primary 14 MR. COHEN: Well mark for identification as Exhibit 15 difference. 15 179 another site plan. It's a December 16th, 1999 site 16 MR. COHEN: Well mark Exhibit 177. 16 plan. 17 (Whereupon the above -referred to 17 (Whereupon the above -referred to 18 document was marked Plaintiffs 18 document was marked Plaintiffs 19 Exhibit 177 for identification by 19 Exhibit 179 for identification by 20 the Court Reporter, a copy of 20 the Court Reporter, a copy of 21 which is attached hereto.) 21 which is attached hereto.) 22 BY MR. COHEN: 22 BY MR. COHEN: 23 Q Give a quick description maybe by the date of 23 Q Give a description of this. 24 this plan. 24 A Okay. You stated the date. This is very similar 25 A Sure. Actually 177 is -- that's dated 12/13/99, 25 to Exhibit 178. There appears to be an increase of square 224 1 226 13 (Pages 223 to 226) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 footage of about 10,000 feet which probably is in this area I 1 2 right here (indicating). 2 3 Q That's — 3 4 A Adjacent to the theater. 4 5 Q Retain? 5 6 A The retail I in 178 was a bunch of little 6 7 buildings -- little retailers, wherein 179 is now a larger 7 8 retailer of 35,000 square feet. 8 9 MR. COHEN: Well move on now for identification to 9 10 Exhibit 180. 10 11 (Whereupon the above -referred to 11 12 document was marked Plaintiffs 12 13 Exhibit 180 for identification by 13 L4 the Court Reporter, a copy of 14 15 which is attached hereto.) 15 16 BY MR. COHEN: 16 17 Q I guess it's site plan 2. It's also dated 17 18 December 16th, 1999. How is this -- it's alternate — 179 18 19 is alternate 1 and 180 is alternate 2. 19 20 A Yes. It appears we've reduced the square 20 21 footage. They're identical only in that we're back to 21 22 90,000 square foot building underneath the theater of 22 23 120,000 versus the Sears and theater in the 179 plan. 23 24 Q Okay. 24 25 MR. WATSON: Can we go off the record? 25 227 1 MR. COHEN: Yeah. 1 2 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 2 3 MR. COHEN: Back on the record. 3 4 Well mark as identification as Exhibit 181 4 5 another site plan dated December 22, '99. 5 6 (Whereupon the above -referred to 6 7 document was marked Plaintiffs 7 8 Exhibit 181 for identification by 8 9 the Court Reporter, a copy of 9 l0 which is attached hereto.) 10 11 BY MR. COHEN: 11 12 Q Just give a description of this. 12 13 A Okay. This is — this is a departure on the 13 14 western end of the site from the previous site plan in 14 15 which we have moved the theater = how to say this best -- 15 16 we have the Sears building, but there's nothing over it. 16 17 It's a single story building again on the eastern end of 17 18 the site. 18 19 And we moved the theater towards the east, and 19 20 then put it over some retail. And what we were thinking of 20 21 a gallery underneath the theater which had -- was an open 21 22 space. But obviously it was enclosed to the ceiling, and 22 23 we were envisioning a grand spiral staircase to help break 23 24 up the ceiling issue. That's how you get up to the 24 25 theater. 25 228 f � , FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Q Okay. Now, in 181, does this raze the entire existing mall by including the Montgomery Wards there? A That would be correct. MR. COHEN: Okay. Well mark as Exhibit 182 -- mark for identification as 182, another conceptual site plan or master site plan, December 27, '99. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 182 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Is there a difference between conceptual site plan and master site plan? A It's all semantics: Q All semantics? A Right. Q Whatever you feel like calling it that day? A That's pretty much it. Q Give just a brief description there? A This, 182, is similar to 181 in the -- in the way I was describing about the retail building. Now we're calling Sears is now just retail and moving the theater over some of the retail users and moving the stairs out into the public area so that people can get to'em. 229 But there is — this does start to introduce a new concept which is a concept change with the street -- streef feeling. And that's what you'll see on the eastern end or the open area is actually where rather than having in the past plans we were envisioning — it was just a pedestrian plaza. Now, the look was going to actually have curbs and look like a street that you could — one could drive through. So we were starting to get into a little theming of site things, how much to make this feel much better in terms of a feeling and a theme. Q It's not that they would drive actually through, sort of like wallring down Disneyland Main Street? A We actually went through a discussion a bunch of times, 'cause we were actually concerned that during the morning bouts, perhaps you wanted -- you wanted -- you want an area to be busy with people. And we were — we debated for a couple weeks of whether that should actually be a street that people could drive, that you might bar it off at night or just not at all. And, to this day, I still think we are -- even though it's in the design to look like a street, we're not envisioning cars there, but I believe we will have bollards, b-o-I-I-a-r-d-s. Q What are those? 230 14 (Pages 227 to 230) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLIt_ . ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A Those are concrete — usually concrete. 1 that and 18 — I'm sorry — 182, 183, then — 2 Q Posts — 2 Q I pulled off the wrong — should be 184. Want to 3 A Thank you. 3 just scratch it out. Yeah. 4 Q — on the side of the street? 4 A Okay. 5 A Thank you. 5 Q So we're marking this as Exhibit 184. And it's 6 Q So no one can drive in the building? 6 the -- 7 A Right. Bollards. 7 A Dated 1/5/2000 master site plan 0110. 8 Q Okay. 8 Q Okay. 9 A These will still probably bollard it off so you 9 A This is very similar to 183. However, we're 10 can't use them. But if we need to get a truck in there or 10 starting to focus again in our view issue from the 405. 11 something, if we move the bollards and people can drive in i l And you will see the differences really in that -- which 12 for whatever reason. 12 would be the northeast corner of the center -- of the .- of 13 Q More for an access situation than actually 13 the mass building we eliminated restaurant C, opened it up 14 customers coming in and parking their cars? 14 so that there was a good view coming in from the 405. IS A Correct, right. 15 Q I see. This is where you're working on the east 16 MR. COHEN: Okay. Let's go back off the record. 16 side of the mail? 17 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 17 A This is all on the east side of the mall. 18 MR. COHEN: Well mark for identification as Exhibit 18 MR. COHEN: Okay. And well mark for identification 19 183 another site plan dated January 5, 2000. 19 as Exhibit 185 another site plan dated January 5, 2000. 20 (Whereupon the above -referred to 20 (Whereupon the above -referred to 21 document was marked Plaintiff's 21 document was marked Plaintiffs 22 Exhibit 183 for identification by 22 Exhibit 185 for identification by 23 the Court Reporter, a copy of 23 the Court Reporter; a copy of 24 which is attached hereto.) 24 which is attached hereto.) 25 H 25 // 231 1 233 1 BY MR. COHEN: • 1 BY MR. COHEN: 2 Q Just give a brief description of this and how 2 Q And what's going on here? 3 things are starting to change. 3 A 185 is basically duplicate of 184 with the 4 A like I said, in 183, the — actually, the 4 exception that we have hand -drawn in the footprint of the 5 differences between Exhibit 182 and 183 look to be just the 5 existing superstructure, the existing mall. 6 paving pattern. Same square footage, everything else is 6 At this point in time, we were starting to thing 7 the same. It looks like we've just added a different 7 we know this is a pile -supported building, existing 8 paving pattern In the streetscape area. 8 building, and we wanted to see how our design was coming 9 MR. COHEN: Okay. Well mark for identification as 9 along as compared to that existing pile -supported slab 10 Exhibit 184 another site plan. , 10 'cause we wanted to start thinking about reuse of that and 11 (Whereupon the above -referred to 11 how that would work. So as you can see in general, it 12 document was marked Plaintiffs 12 follows majority of the — of the — what we're proposing. 13 Exhibit 194 for identification by 13 Q Okay. Do you know why — okay. Strike that. 14 the Court Reporter, a copy of 14 MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 186 15 which is attached hereto.) 15 another site plan dated January 5, 2000. 16 BY MR. COHEN: - 16 (Whereupon the above -referred to 17 Q Now, I notice it says master site -plan 0110? 17 document was marked Plaintiffs 18 A- Right: 18 Exhibit 186 for identification by 19 Q And 183 has 0041. Do you know what that is? 19 the Court Reporter, a copy of 20 A I would anticipate- I would assume that for 20 which is attached hereto.) 21 some reason we named them that way. I do not know. Again, 21 BY MR. COHEN: 22 my staff will name things how they feel — the name du 22 Q Give a description of what — 186 of what's going 23 jour, but there's no significance to naming. 23 on here. . 24 Q Okay. 24 A In 186, now we're starting to focus — we -- and 25 A Exhibit 187, the main difference here between 25 you'll notice, there actually is — on the eastern side, 232 1 234 15 (Pages 231 to 234) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - I the streetscape is a windey road, winding road. And so l 2 we've — we've come kind of to the conclusion that this is 2 3 the best design in terms of the eastern side, and we start 3 4 to look — this is our first pass at the western side. The 4 5 main division line is a — a break in the buildings about 5 6 midway. 6 7 So on the western side, we're starting to look at 7 8 a plaza, a more well-defined plaza. There -- some of the 8 9 concepts that are going on behind this design is on the 9 10 eastern side is the winding road and the little bit looser 10 11 structure in terms of open space and what people will be 11 12 doing. Whereas on the western side we're trying to do a 12 13 contrasting design with a more formalized open -- space in 13 14 terms of geometry and what have you. 14 15 We have the — we've started to finalize the 15 16 stair location to the theater which is still above a 16 17 retail, and we have a gallery underneath now the theater 17 18 with some small shops with a — all ending in a new 120,000 18 19 square foot building, unknown tenant at that point in time. 19 20 As I mentioned in the past, we had talked about 20 21 Montgomery Wards was willing to build a new building, so it 21 22 could have been them. It could have been Sears. We didn't 22 23 know. We just figured we'd anchor that in with a user that 23 24 we could make — get some access through that gallery. 24 25 Because if you have a dead end, very difficult to lease. 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 235 So we were hoping to get someone that would let us open up there and get a draw through for people. Q And this is gonna be all covered space? A That's all covered, correct Q Okay. Move on. MR. COHEN: Shall we go off the record? MR. WATSON: No, no, this is the last one. MR. COHEN: III mark for identification as Exhibit 187. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 187 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) THE WITNESS: 187 is really refining 186. We're adding the paving patterns, but in addition, we're --"we're really starting to look at -- on the eastern side, some geometry of the restaurants, of not just squares anymore, but something interesting. I think we at this point in time were talking to a particular restaurant for that footprint. BY MR. COHEN: Q You're talking about E? A I'm sorry, E. We started to focus in on the cross -hatched 236 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25,00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER buildings indicate the two-story buildings versus the one-story. So we're trying to get some one-story, some two-story to get some movement in the vertical direction. Q And the two stories are designated with parentheses for total square footage at the bottom? A Correct. And the cross -hatched. Q Okay. A On the western side, we've started to really get into the formalization of the — the open space. Again, giving more of a formal approach to the — the spaces. We've got the — we've got — at this point we've got the stairs with the dome over it which is the current design again in the specific plan. Again, the theater has the cross -hatched space indicating the theater above. We're kind of coming to conclusion that this is — this is stardn' to really be what our client had originally intended was something unique, something special with the two different types of open space with the — all the small shops, the ups and downs, basically the theming of the Italian villages coming to the end of the concept design. Q I see. And this is January 5, 2000, correct? A Right. Q And this is before the city has given any — 237 A Input Q -- input into the — A That's correct Just memory, I think if I remember, it was over the Christmas — middle to end of December between when we saw that series of exhibits dated the 12th — early — early December when we said we need to do something special, We get hearing that over and over again. And so that's there we kinds met a lot with them and trying to brainstorm what about this, what about that And so beginning of January we're stardn' to come to something that everyone feels is trying to accomplish their needs. Q When we say the city was giving its input, they weren't giving input in relation to the type of tenants? A No. No. Totally in terms of design. Q Okay. What about the structures themselves, as far as you know the shapes of the structures, were they giving input on that? A Well, simultaneous with all the site planning is the elevation design, and there's a whole series of elevation design. And even still, we hadn't -- we hadn't really proposed anything to the city. Early on we -- the city was concerned actually with Greenberg-Farrow's ability to be an architect for this 238- 16 (Pages 235 to 238) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.2S,00 BURLINON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER ey . 3; 1 ,,.project because of our reputation as -- as large retailers. I 1 we were focusing on the — on the western side. We're 2 And they didn't know — they didn't feel we were 2 looking at the road geometry as it comes in off of Edinger, 3 appropriate. And we did some conceptual design, I mean 3 and we're looking at our plaza again. And we're still 4 that was probably in the September, October, November 4 we're still dealing with the issue of -- on the western 5 range, so — 5 side of having a -gallery that might be a dead end gallery. 6 Q That you presented to the city? 6 So in this scheme we've moved the theater back over to 7 A We did not. Our client did. 7 120,000 square foot user and moved it back and still 8 Q I see. 8 working on what to do with this area back and forth. 9 A Had done that. So there was some -- 9 Q And the theater would be above here? 10 • Q Did you give me those today? 10 A Correct. 11 A The design? 11 Q This would be an open space where the staircase 12 Q Those designs that you presented to the city? 12 is? 13 A No. 13 A Correct. Open to the sky. 14 Q Do you have those? 14 Q Okay. I'd like to mark for identification as 15 A Sure. 15 Exhibit 180 — let's go off the record. 16 Q Oh, you do? 16 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 17 A Well, you asked for site plans. These are 17 MR. COHEN: i.eNs get on the record. 1'd like to mark 18 ' prospectives and elevations. 18 as exhibit — mark for identification Exhibit 189, another 19 Q Right. I guess all drawings? 19 site plan dated February 17, 2000. 20 • A Okay. Well. 20 (Whereupon the above -referred to 21- Q There's a lot more? 21 document was marked Plaintiff's 22' A There's a lot more. I mean this is -- you just 22 Exhibit 189 for identification by 23 ' asked -- I thought we were just after the site plan, so 23 the Court Reporter, a copy of 24 -that's all I pulled. 24 which is attached hereto.) 25 ' Q Okay. Let's move on for now. 25 THE WITNESS: This site plan, 189 is beginning of 239 241 I- , A But I guess to finish that conversation — I mean 1 creating the specific plan exhibit. It's labeled as such. 2 the point was, we did some initial perspective that showed 2 And so this would have been beginning of exhibits for the 3 something that, you know, was not even near what we bunt 3 specific plan. So this is starting of that exercise. 4 or not built, I'm sorry, but current design, bat just to 4 BY MR. COHEN: 5 get them comfortable that we have design capabilities. 5 Q Do you know if that's the one actually included 6 Q Right. 6 in SP-13? 7 A And that was a one-shot perspective and that 7 A No, I don't think this is the one that was 8 seemed to make them happy. And then there was no 8 included. 9 communication, at least from as to the city, on the look 9 Q Do you have it — I guess well get to it. 10 until, again, we got Into at this point in time, not are we 10 MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 190 11 fivalizing the site plan in terms of the theme, but also 11 another specific site plan No. A dated March 8, 2000. 12-1 the elevations are coming along as well. 12 (Whereupon the above -referred to '13 MR. COHEN: Okay. I'd like to mark for identification 13 document was marked Plaintiffs 14 as Exhibit 188 -- strike that. Let's go off the record. 14 Exhibit 190 for identification by 15 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 15 the Court Reporter, a copy of 16 MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 188, 16 which is attached hereto.) 17 the plot date is February 7, 2000. -- 17 BY MR. COHEN: 18 (Whereupon the above -referred to 18 Q Give a quick description of that. 19 document was marked Plaintiffs 19 A This, I believe, is the specific — the site plan 20 Exhibit 188 for identification by 20 that's in the specific plan and — 21 the Court Reporter, a copy of 21 Q How does 189 and 190 differ? 22 which is attached hereto.) 22 MR. WATSON: Square footage is different on 189 and 23 BY MR. COHEN: 23 190. 24 Q Give just a quick description of what 188 is. 24 BY MR. COHEN: 25 A 188 is a — kind of a design sketch plan in which 25 Q Do you notice any other differences other than 240 1 242 17 (Pages 239 to 242) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 just the square footage? 1 2 A Not offhand. 2 3 Q Do you know where that square footage is coming 3 4 from, the extra? 4 5 A Not without studying, actually. Might have been 5 6 we just added wrong. We've been known to do that, too. 6 7 Q Which one do you think -- this is the later in 7 8 time? 8 9 A Right. I mean we should just look at -- look in 9 10 the specific plan. 10 I 1 Q We'll keep up. Well figure it out. 11 12 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as -- mark for 12 13 identification as Exhibit 191 another site plan entitled 13 14 specific plan No. 8 dated March 8, 2000. 14 15 (Whereupon the above -referred to 15 16 document was marked Plaintiffs 16 17 Exhibit 191 for identification by 17 18 the Court Reporter, a copy of 18 19 which is attached hereto.) 19 20 BY MR. COHEN: 20 21 Q And give a little description of this and how 21 22 it's different, if it is at all. 22 23 A This is an all -- this is the alternate plan, 23 24 site plan that's in the specific plan which, you know, 24 25 generally specific plans you -- you're supposed to give 25 243 1 some alternates or some other ways. And so, in this case, 1 2 it's showing the Burlington Coat building staying, and the 2 3 impact it had on the public space, the formal public spaces 3 4 and everything that we had. 4 5 And, again, obviously like we've always 5 6 discussed, the view is -- that's a concern, and obviously 6 7 you don't get nearly the impact you do without the 7 8 Burlington building, 'cause — all the reasons we've been 8 9 discussing all along with small shops and — 9 10 Q In Exhibit 190, these will be two stories, and 10 11 I'm pointing at retail 1 and retail 10? 11 12 A Correct 12 13 Q So that's gonna have a high profile; am I correct 13 14 on that? 14 15 A Yeah, but not nearly to the -one of the existing 15 16 Burlington building, which is a three-story building. 16 17 Q I see. And then, also, there's a row of retail 17 18 shops in 191, and like small little retail shops? 18 19 A Correct` 19 20 Q I don't even know how many square feet that 20 21 totals, not 7500, 8,000 square feet. I mean has any 21 22 consideration been given to enlarge the open areas by 22 23 removing these retail shops here? 23 24 , A No. Because, again, we were always looking for 24 25 the two-sided -- the three -sided site as we discussed. So 25 244 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER if you remove that 8,000 square feet, you'd end up perhaps with a back side or maybe these would be -- most retailers don't do double -sided stores. Pretty much there's a back of the house, if you will, where the stock rooms and what have you are. So it — one — two things: One, that would be problematic. One of these sides would be the back of the house. And the other issue is, again, this is -- you've got a scaling problem with some small shops and then a very large wall. This would be a very uncomfortable space if you envision one side is single story of maybe eight — 14, 18 feet, the other side a 35-foot high building. Q Okay. A 40-foot high building. Q But you're gonna have a very high building to the left? A Correct Q No matter what? A Correct Q In both 190 and 191, am I right on that? A That's correct Q That's because of the theater? A That's correct. But we were able — you Imow, we. were able — in 190, we had low buildings on each side of 245 the public area So you were stepping up — as you'll see, you got low buildings here, and then you have the two-story on the outside and then the large buildings here. So you had a sequential — a progression of — of space and buildings where this is just (indicating). Q It is possible, though, to make a facade though and make it look like -- actually like a two-story — two separate stories -- there's a way of sprucing up the side of the buildings; is that correct? A You can spruce it up. But if you wanted to do what you were suggesting, bringing it down to pedestrian scale, you would have to — you'd have to come out in front of the building and add a single level of or something of that nature. Q Right, or just a facade? A Well, the facade it's a mass. You can't get rid of the mass through sprucing it up. It's still gonna be out there. Q Make it look like it has two stories, though, like two balcony levels? A I'm saying in order to do that, you've got to come forward. You can't do it in a single plane 'cause it's still gonna be a single plane mass. Q Sounds like it's workable. A (Witness shakes head.) 246 18' (Pages 243 to 246) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 i --�tANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLIK .'ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I Q Well move on. We'll mark for identification as I just looking at at 190. 2 Exhibit 192 - 2 So it does not accomplish anything that we 3 (Interruption in the proceedings.) 3 were - what we had accomplished, but it is something that 4 MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record. 4 could be done if one wanted to do it. 5 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 5 Q Okay. The plot date is July 31, 2000? 6 MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as Exhibit 192 another 6 A Right. 7 specific site plan dated March 22, 2000. 7 Q Do you know when this was created, though? 8 (Whereupon the above -referred to 8 A I do not know offhand. 9 document was marked Plaintiffs 9 Q Approximately? 10 Exhibit 192 for identification by 10 A No, I don't. 11 the Court Reporter, a copy of 11 Q Was it in the last two months, three months or 12 which is attached hereto.) 12 did it predate Exhibit 190, 192? 13 BY MR. COHEN: 13 A I don't know. I mean I can find out, but I don't 14 Q What's going on here with this? 14 know exactly when we did this. 15 A This Is a reduced square footage- In 191 we had 15 Q How can you find out? 16 a total of a million one. And in 190 we had a total of a 16 A By asking the people that did it. 17 million 97. 17 Q Would Bob - is it Bob Bucci who did this? l8 Q Do you know where the reduction in square footage 18 A Well, Bob -and again some of the people that work 19 is coming from? 19 for him. Looks Him - Bob's got his name in that plot 20 A Again, not without studying it. But one thing we 20 date, but there's also TAT is initials of a person that 21 ' did in the specific plan is we had - we're obtaining the 21 actually did the drawing work. 22 entitlements to the maximum allowable square footage which 22 Q Who is that? What's the name of that person? 23 is like a million one or whatever. We won't - we probably 23 A That is To Tramt. 24 will not build a million one square feet. 24 Q And that person does the CAD - ` 25 Q Okay. 25 A Right. 247 249 1 •-- A This is probably what we think we're gonna build, 1 Q Is that the CAD? 2 whereas the specific -- Exhibit 190 is our entitlement site 2 A Right, he just takes direction from Bob on what 3 explain. 3 to do. 4 Q That's right. But architecturally, aside from 4 Q Okay. Computer guy? 5 just the square footage - 5 A Right: 6 A It's the same - 6 Q It seems as though it's sort of a - I mean it's 7 Q -- it's the same? 7 quite different, but it still has - than 191, but was - 8 A -- as 190. 8 that - was 191 used to create 193 so it has the retail - 9 MR. COHEN: Okay. Let's mark for identification as 9 A No, I think we were asked to move - again, the 10 Exhibit 193 another site plan dated -- what is the date? 10 theater down, and that's what we did. 11 MR. WATSON: It's got a plot date. 11 Q Okay. ' 12 MR. COHEN: Has a plot date of July 31, 2000 and it's 12 A I don't think they're related. 13 called conceptual site plan. 13 MR. COHEN: Okay. I'd like to mark for identification 14 (Whereupon the above -referred to 14 as Exhibit 194 - I will want you to find out when 193 was 15 document was marked Plaintiffs 15 created. 16 Exhibit 193 for identification' by 16 . THE WITNESS: Sure. 17 the Court Reporter, a copy of 17 MR. COHEN: Before we leave. 18 which is attached hereto.) 18 THE WITNESS: Sure. 19 BY MR. COHEN 19 MR. COHEN: 194. It's another conceptual site plan. 20 Q- What% going on here? 20 And the plot date is July 31, 2000. And I don't think it 21 A Here we were asked to move the theater back down 21 has a creation date. But, Mr. Coda, you'll try and figure 22 to the first level and see what the result of that was. As 22 this out before we leave. 23 you can see, we weren't very enthusiastic because we did 23 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. 24 not put much effort into the public spaces. And it is 24 (Whereupon the above -referred to 25 not - it's not very attractive compared to what we were 25 document was marked Plaintiffs 248 1 250 19 (Pages 247 to 250) ]ILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 0 9 10 11 12 L3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 194 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this, 194? A 194 is a plan where we have a Burlington Coat building back into the plan with a theater on the first level and, again, putting everything on the first level. As you can see, we didn't -- we did -- we were not very enthusiastic about this plan, so we have not spent much energy or time on it. But, again, I believe we were asked to create a plan with the theater on one level, Burlington back in and all that. And what -- what does that do, what does that give us, and that's what this plan would represent. Q And do you know when this was created? A No. Like I said, I'll have to find out. Q Okay. Right. Okay. So let's move on. MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record. (Off-the-record discussion was held.) MR. COHEN: Well mark this. Let's mark it for identification as 195. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 195 for identification by 251 the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What exactly is this? A This is a -- this looks like -- or is a plan from a department store that took our site plan computer disk and inserted their own building into their plan on where they thought they might want to go. Q Okay. And the department store is Coles? A That's right. Q What are they? A They're like an upscale Mervyn's. Q Oh, they're a clothing retail? A They're soft goods, yeah. Q And then, also, you have brought your invoices. Are those redacted or -- meaning dollars crossed out? A Yes. MR. COHEN: Okay. I'd like to mark that as identification as 196. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 196 for identification by the Court Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) BY MR. COHEN: 252 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I Q Can you just give a description of what that is? 2 A Sure. These are all of — the whole set we're 3 gonna mark as 1%. 4 Q Yeah. 5 A These are invoices from first one to date on the 6 subject project to our client and it indicates description 7 of the work and the hours by the position. As you said, 8 I've blanked out all the financial information. 9 Q Okay. And how many pages are there? 10 A Let's see. There is October -- put these in 1 i order, actually. October 31st, '99, which is our first 12 invoice, November, December'", January 31st, February, 13 April, May and June. 14 Q Okay. Have you had any invoices prior to June, 1 15 guess — 16 A You mean after June? 17 Q Yeah. After June? 18 A Not as yet 19 Q You have not generated it yet? 20 A No, I'm late. 21 Q Okay, yeah. 22 A 'Cause I'm in deposition. No, just kidding. 23 MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record again. 24 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 25 MR. COHEN: Let's go on the record, and let's just get 253 1 it done. We're at 197. What we have here is a whole bunch 2 of very large color renderings. 3 MR. WATSON: There's three. 4 MR. COHEN: Three large color renderings of 5 elevations, and Mr. Coda has agreed to hold on to these 6 renderings pending this litigation. And if we need it, you 7 know, then well ask him for it. And so is that 8 acceptable? 9 THE WITNESS: Sure. 10 MR. COHEN: Okay. And well mark as Exhibit 197 a 11 rendering dated December 14, 1999 with the GFA logo on it, 12 and I'm going to put the exhibit tab on the back right 13 bottom comer. 14 (Whereupon the above -referred to 15 document was marked Plaintiffs 16 Exhibit 197 for identification by 17 the Court Reporter, and retained 18 by deponent.) 19 THE WITNESS: This is an elevation of -- if I 20 remember correctly, this is our -- I believe this is the 21 view from the eastern streetscape -- inside the eastern 22 side in the street looking towards Edinger. And but this 23 is the interior elevation, and then we had a block of 24 buildings, the streets winding through here. There's a 25 bridge over to the restaurant building. 254 20 (Pages 251 to 254) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 j1&ANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINWON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER t' BY MR. COIN: 1 2 Q This is the Village Strada? 2 3 A That would be correct. 3 4 Q 11a0s sort of designated in the specific plan as 4 5 that? 5 6 A Correct. 6 7 Q And it's the inside of the mall? 7 8 A Correct. 8 9 Q Okay. Let's roll this up. 9 10 MR. COHEN: 1'd like to mark as Exhibit 198 another 10 11 rather large color rendering. 11 12 (Whereupon the above -referred to 12 13 document was marked Plaintiffs 13 14 Exhibit 198 for identification by 14 15 the Court Reporter, and retained 15 16 by deponent.) 16 17 BY MR. COHEN: 17 18 Q There's no date on it, but can you give a 18 19 description of 1998 for us? 19 20 A Surely. This is a perspective view from the 20 21 Edinger side of the project looking inwards towards — this 21 22 would be where Strada Road may come out on Edinger side of 22 23 the street. This is looking at Edinger corner almost 23 24 where -- perhaps where — what's the restaurant on the 24 25 corner. 25 255 1 - Q Romano's? 1 2 A Romano's, yes, kinds looking towards that 2 3 direction. 3 4 MR. COHEN: Okay. Mark as Exhibit 199 another color 4 5 rendering, and I'm putting the exhibit tabs on the bottom 5 6 right corner of the back of each of these. 6 7 (Whereupon the above -referred to 7 8 document was marked Plaintiffs 8 9 Exhibit 199 for identification by 9 10 the Court Reporter, and retained 10 11 by deponent.) 11 12 BY MR. COHEN: 12 13 Q What is this? 13 14 A This is a perspective view looking from, not the 14 15 405, 'cause you're too close, but from that 405 corner. 15 16 This would be where when we were talking earlier the view 16 17 into the — the pedestrian area. This is the turnaround. 17 18 This is the — some of the restaurants that we were talking 18 19 about with the odd shaped building. So that's looking that 19 20 direction. 20 21 Q Where is it on here? 21 22 A (Indicating.) 22 23 Q I see. Sothis is another side of the Village 23 24 Strada? 24 25 A Correct. 25 256 Q Okay. Where are we putting them? A Right here (indicating). MR. COHEN: We're at 190 -- we're at 200? MR. WATSON: 200. MR. COHEN: Yeah. Okay. We're gonna mark as Exhibit -- mark for identification as Exhibit 200 another rendering. (Whereupon the above-referrtd to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 200 for identification by the Court Reporter, and retained by deponent.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this? A ' This is an elevation view of the existing buildings to remain in this -- in the southeast corner at the Edinger and Beach Boulevard corner of the site. This is our proposal on how we would reface those buildings. Q To give it a village theme? A Correct: Q Okay. Is this the same? A No. MR. WATSON: No. MR. COHEN: Oh, this was the Great Indoors, but 257 they're no longer — THE WITNESS: Correct. MR. COHEN: Well mark it as Exhibit 201. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 201 for identification by the Court Reporter, and retained by deponent.) BY MR. COHEN- Q What is 201? A Exhibit 201 is a front elevation we were proposing for the Great Indoors, that's a Sears concept we had talked about on the site plans. And it was just, you know, to — what we would have done is sent that to them and said this is what we think you should be — give out in terms of what single story buildings, what have you. MR. COHEN: Well mark for identification as Exhibit 202 another rendering: (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 202 for identification by the Court Reporter, and retained by deponent.) BY MR. COHEN: Q What is this? 258 21 (Pages 255 to 258) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - f FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 A That is, again, a perspective of the -- the 1 we could do something besides big box. And as you can see, 2 eastern side of the — of the project, the Village Strada, 2 we were playing the Disney theme up just to prove the 3 if you will. From the Edinger corner .- Edinger Street as 3 point. 4 well. 4 Q And this -- 5 At this point in time, we were -- this would be, 5 A Exhibit. 6 again, looking somewhat like this (indicating). This is 6 MR. COIN: This is gonna be Exhibit 203, this what 7 early in the concept before we started to jog the buildings 7 we've been talking about. 8 and plans. That's why you have one mass, and it's kind of 8 (Whereupon the above -referred to 9 straightaway here. 9 document was marked Plaintiffs 10 Q Okay. There's no date on this? 10 Exhibit 203 for identification by 11 A No. 11 the Court Reporter, and retained 12 Q Do you know when it was created? 12 by deponent.) 13 A This was probably in the, oh, December range. 13 BY MR. COHEN: 14 'Cause this -- as you'll see, this is probably also during 14 Q So none of this is reality as far as the project 15 or prior to Richard Sawyer's involvement or during his 15 is concerned? 16 involvement. 'Cause you can -- I know that because the 16 A No. 17 current design, these wails are much more embellished, have 17 Q This is not where the theater is gonna be? 18 a lot articulation. We were — 18 A That would have been where the theater would have 19 Q Is that like the stucco is -- 19 been, but that's not the current design. 20 A Stucco is ins and outs. 20 Q Okay. Let's move on. 21 Q Oh, okay. 21 A Marking this exhibit? 22 A Not just one kind a flat wall. 22 MR. COHEN: 204. 23 Q I see. 23 (Whereupon the above -referred to 24 A That's exactly what we were — our client didn't 24 document was marked Plaintiffs 25 want. And, you know, they were okay with this. They were 25 Exhibit 204 for identification by 259 1 261 1 starting to. But from their viewpoint, they felt that this 1 2 was still kinds not special enough, not unique enough. 2 3 That's why they hired Richard. 3 4 Q Richard Sawyer? 4 5 A Right. Because we weren't to the level that they 5 6 felt us needing to be to produce the unique special 6 7 something. 7 8 Q I understand. Now, were these — you mentioned 8 9 you presented certain renderings to the city? 9 10 A I think that's in here. 10 11 Q Okay. 11 12 A Let me see if I can find that. 12 13 This is the one that we — this was the one — 13 14 this was done probably early — somewhere in 14 15 September -October where our client had learned — he had 15 16 met with the city, and they were wondering -- they 16 17 were actually — city was actually telling them who the 17 18 architect should be. 18 19 Q Who did they want? 19 20 A At the time I think they wanted P & R or someone 20 21 that they felt comfortable with. So, again, when they -- 21 22 story I heard from Doug Gray was when they heard it was 22 23 GFA, they were concerned on our design ability. So we 23 24 produced this perspective. It had actually nothing to do 24 25 with any plan that we did at the time. It was just to show 25 260 the Court Reporter, and retained by deponent.) THE WITNESS: 204, again is another perspective rendering. This would be looking from one of the bridges that was in the early design towards -- get my bearings straight here -- this BY MR. COHEN: Q Is this the bridge that goes over that connects the restaurant and the Village Strada; is that correct? A Well, and you'll see at the time, this was prior to the Village Strada Road. So this is the plaza that we add -- were envisioning, and this is one of the bridges that we had. I think this would -- Edinger is on the back side of this, and over here was where the Barnes & Noble is. Q I see. A So this was -- you're not a bridge looking -- at some point in time again because of the view from 405 we didn't have any buildings along this area. We just had a covered bridge, walkway to connect the different levels. Q Do you know when this was created? A Again, I think these are all in this December range. Q December range? A Prior to Richard getting involved, we were doing 262 22 (Pages 259 to 262) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.0 SURLIi0� ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER, 1 Our best to pitch our services. And we didn't quite cut it 1 2 apparently, the design. 2 3 Q Okay. Now, Richard I guess has more recent and a 3 4 more up-to-date renderings? 4 5 A Right In fact, all the graphics of the 5 6 elevation in the specific plan are from him. 6 7 Q I see. I see. Okay. Well, I know he did — 7 8 like there's like a painting one. 8 9 A Right 9 10 Q That's the cover of it of SP-13? 10 11 A Right Bat also — in SP-13, all of the — ail 11 12 the -- for example here. 12 13 Q There it is. 13 14 A Something like this, page 19, that's his work. 14 15 Q Of SP-13? 15 16 A Right 16 17 Q And you don't have — 17 18 A We do not Page 14 of SP-13, that's all his 18 19 work. So he provided all the elevation looks for SP-13 and 19 20 we provided all the site plans: 20 21 Q I see. 21 22 A That was the division of the work. 22 23 Q I11 have t6 talk to him about that. ' 23 24 MR. COHEN: Okay. Well mark as Exhibit 205. 24 25 (Whereupon the above -referred to 25 263 1 document was marked Plaintiffs 1 2 Exhibit 205 for identification by 2 3 the Court Reporter, and retained 3 4 by deponent.) 4 5 THE WITNESS: 205 is a perspective rendering. Now we 5 6 are inside of the center and we are looking towards the 6 7 theater dome in the background, and this is the formalized . 7 8 plaza space that we're seeing through this arch. 8 9 So this was the road kinds coming here with the 9 10 turnaround we envisioned during certain times. Actually 10 11 one of the key things of the theaters is the dropoff — 11 12 dropoff -- this is gonna be the dropoff ability for people 12 13 going to the theaters. So that's — that is an important 13 14 issue in their minds. And so we always had a vision that 14 15 this circle people will come in and drop off and leave. 15 16 BY MR. COHEN: — 16 17 Q They can actually drive inside? 17 18 A Drive In a circle. So we were always envisioning 18 19 the bollards would be here (indicating) at the entrance to 19 20. the Village Strada area so that people could still drive 20 21 in, drop off and get out And people could then walk into 21 22 the public space and then go to the theater. 22 23 Q And when was this rendering created? 23 24 A This one is after — this is probably March — 24 25 and the reason I know that is because the dome design was 25 264 Richard's idea. So anything that had the dome, even though we created It, it was a concept from him. Q Okay. And it also seems a little more similar to -- like Exhibit 193 conceptual plans? A Correct Q Okay. MR. WATSON: These are the only two left. Want them marked? MR. COHEN: Yeah, let's mark them 'cause — and well mark — we have three hard backed poster boards of different renderings, and well mark as Exhibit 206 another rendering of a building facade. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 206 for identification by the Court Reporter, and retained by deponent.) BY MR. COHEN: Q Can you give us some description as to what this is? A Sure. This is a computer -generated rendering. To be honest, I don't know where this occurs on the site. I know part of the staff was — was feeling hart that we weren't part of the design staff: So I know they've been trying to prove to our client that hey, we can do.tbe 265 Richard stag too. So, again, I don't even know — I'm not sure that this is actually a building that's in the concept plan today, but it is kinda laying with the look and what could be done and trying to prove to your client that we have that capability. Q I see A Like I said, it may be — it may actually be one of the buildings, but I'm not — I can't envision where that would be,'cause we really don't have a -- this situation that I'm aware of today of a — Q The drive thing? A Yeah, kind of a covered dropoff area. Q Or could it be the Mervyn's? A That would be wonderful, but no, I don't think SO. Q Or it could be Burlington. Okay. Move on. MR. WATSON: 207.. MR. COHEN: Mark for identification as Exhibit 207. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 207 for identification by the Court Reporter, and retained by deponent.) THE WITNESS: 207. This was an exhibit we had produced for the specific plan. This is a color and 266 23 (Pages 263 to 266) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 5 6 7 8 9 LO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 material board of the common areas. And basically this is snapshots of some of the renderings we had actually looked at in addition to some actual photos of trying to portray what we were planning to do in terms of materials and colors. And that's what this board is about. BY MR. COHEN: Q Okay. Do you know when it was -- it was created, I guess, March 2000? A Yeah, right in that area for the specific plan. MR. COHEN: Okay. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 208. (Whereupon the above -referred to document was marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 208 for identification by the Court Reporter, and retained by deponent.) THE WITNESS: 208 is along a similar vein in terms of the color samples for the project 'cause the city requires that you produce colors and materials. So on the top, we have an elevation -- actually the partial elevation of that large one we saw before, and we actually have put on this board color chips from paint manufacturers of the actual paint samples that we were intending to use. BY MR. COHEN: Q I see. And like painting the different buildings gives different depths? 267 A Correct. Again, if the concept is to provide a village, most villages, cities, whatever, it's not all the same color and same materials. It's built over time, and that's kind of what we're trying to achieve is something that looks like it has been built over time, even though it was all built on the same day. Q Okay. Now, again, for the record -- let's go off the record for a seconds (Off-the-record discussion was held.) MR. COHEN: Back on the record. Just so we're again clear, Exhibits 197 through 208 will be kept in the custody of Mr. Frank Coda, and we're not gonna make any copies of it to attach it to the record. But Mr. Coda will make available these exhibits upon reasonable request, if need be. Q That's acceptable? A That's acceptable. Q Okay. Let's sit down now. MR. COHEN: Need to go off the record a second. (Off-the-record discussion was held.) MR. COHEN: Let's go back on the record. We just reviewed, I don't know, about 10 or 15, 20 different renderings and sketches, but those were pretty much preliminary renderings or duplicates of what we've already marked. 268 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 2 MR. COHEN: We're going to mark as Exhibit 209 another 3 elevation rendering. 4 (Whereupon the above -referred to 5 document was marked Plaintiffs 6 Exhibit 209 for identification by 7 the Court Reporter, and retained 8 by deponent.) 9 BY MR. COHEN: 10 Q Give a brief description of what this is. 11 A This is east, south and — south elevation -- two 12 souths and an east elevation of the center. Again, this is 13 prior to the involvement of Richard. And, actually, we've 14 seen — in some of the color renderings we will have seen, 15 like I was telling you, the large expanse of flat areas and 16 you can see that here. But that's what this is. This is 17 probably in the December range produced something to, 18 again, we're trying to work on the. Look, and we continued 19 to, I guess, not get wbat the client wanted in terms of 20 unique — something different. 21 So as you can see, this is a pretty boxy deal, 22 and that is something they were not interested in. They 23 continued to want to break up and small little things. 24 Q When was this created? 25 A Again, this was. in the December time hams 269 1 Q Okay. And 209, along with, what was it, 197 2 through 208 would just be maintained in your custody and 3 we're not gonna make a copy of it. 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Okay. I just basically want to make sure with 6 all the exhibits that you've given me, are there any other 7 correspondence documents that you haven't given me? 8 A No, I've given you that the Last time — oh, I'm 9 sorry, you had asked about the dates of those two plans 10 Q That's right. 11 A — Exhibits 193 and 194. They were created in 12 the last month, and they were at the request of Doug Gray. 13 And I guess Doug — Doug was requesting them to go to the 14 city to show the city what the impact of the — you know, 15 what the effect is of having to have the retailers — have 16 whatever we showed on the plan. This was a request to put 17 together a plan so that Doug can indicate -- show the city 18 the impact of — of, I guess, whatever — of putting the 19 theater on the first level of putting Burlington Coat's 20 building — leaving Burlington Coat's building in there. 21 That's what this is — that's what is the purpose of this. 22 Q What the impact was? 23 A Right. This is a recent event, and it was done 24 specifically to show the city what the impact was. 25 Q Okay. But your team didn't put much time into 270 24 (Pages 267 to 270) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 -RANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00= BURLIN ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 ~Y creating this? 1 2 A No. Again, we personally don't believe -- 2 3 professionally didn't believe that's the right answer, but 3 4 we did it as a request to show what the impact would be. 4 5 So that was Exhibits 193 and -- 5 6 Q Do you know who at the city requested and when? 6 7 A No. All we were requesting from your client is 7 8 to produce these plans. I don't know if the city requested 8 9 it or if Doug decided he wanted to show 'ern on his own or 9 10 what. 1 don't know. 10 11 Q Do you know who in the city it was presented to? 11 12 A No. 12 13 Q Does that person that you spoke to, does that 13 14 person know? 14 15 A No. 15 16 Q And who was that that you spoke to to get this 16 17 information? 17 18 A That was Bob Bucci. 18 19 Q Okay. Part of your deposition notice we asked 19 20 for documents, and we won't offer a lot of the documents. 20 21 We asked for all documents exchanged between GFA and 21 22 Ezralow. All of those documents have been produced; is 22 23 that correct? 23 24 A That's correct. 24 25 Q We asked for all documents exchanged between GFA 1 25 271 Q Or some other entity or person? A Yeah. Q ' No. 8, all documents exchanged between GFA and the fire department relating to the shopping center? A Yes. Yeah, you have seen everything that we've got. The -- I'm just trying to -- that's basically the site plans which is basically everything. I know we have -- we've met with building or fire or what have you, but there is no documents. There's no -- Q I see. For people in building, who was that, James? A I don't know. I did not meet with him. Q That would be Bob Bucci? A No, what had to be the architect. The name is John Veregge, V-e-r-e-g-g-e. Q Okay. All documents -- documents exchanged between GFA and Bryan Ezralow, that would be included in the Ezralow documents? A Correct. Q No. 10, all documents concerning any and all discussions including closed session in, among and between GFA and Ezralow regarding, referring or relating to the shopping center or Burlington? A You've seen. Q Again, all documents we've seen? 273 1 and Whitman -Breed or it's now Holland & Knight. If there 1 A Yes. 2 were -- were there any documents exchanged between GFA and 2 Q Have we seen all memoranda like internal 3 the attorneys for Ezralow? 3 memoranda regarding discussions between Ezralow and GFA? 4 A If -- the only documents would have been sending 4 A You have: 5 .'site plans. 5 Q Does GFA — is it policy to create some internal 6 Q Okay. And so we've seen all the documents? 6 memoranda, might not be disseminated, but just internal? 7 A You have seen all — you've seen everything. 7 A Not usually. Actually, usually we do; however, 8 Q Okay. Request No. 4 asked for all documents 8 we haven't gotten to that stage in this project where we do 9 between GFA and Huntington Associates. That all would have 9 that stuff. Remember I said before we're still in the 10 been produced as well; is that correct? 10 conceptual, what -if stage, from our standpoint. So that's 11 A That's correct 11 what I'm trying — you Imow, you've seen everything. But 12 Q All documents between GFA and Linscott? 12 we do do meeting minutes and all that, but we haven't 13 A That is correct, too. 13 gotten into anything that relates to architecturally this 14 Q No. 6, all documents between GFA and EDAW? 14 creates liability. I mean this is all -- this does not 15 A That is correct 15 mean anything. All these plans — for our world. Our 16 Q And No. 7, all documents exchanged between GFA 16 world starts when we produce construction documents. 17 and the Redevelopment Agency? — 17 Q I see. 18 A Yeah, there aren't any, but so in a sense you 18 A So this is just play. 19 have. 19 Q I see. These are design documents? 20 Q, So — but there were no documents exchanged 20 A These are pretty pictures. 21 between GFA and Redevelopment Agency? 21 Q I see. 22 A No, we have not even involved with them at all. 22 A So at that stage we don't see a need to document 23 Q I see. If any of their documents were in their 23 anything 'cause it's -- it does not mean anything to us. 24 possession, it was disseminated maybe through your client? 24 Q I see. When it comes down to taking like 25 A Right 25 Sawyer's renderings and then you -- it would be GFA's 272 1 274 25 (Pages 271 to 274) ]ILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 13URLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I responsibility to best adapt them to some practical -- 1 MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record. 2 A Buildings 2 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 3 Q -- buildings — 3 BY MR. COHEN: 4 A Correct 4 Q No. 26, all documents concerning any and all 5 Q — construction, how -- I mean is that often'? 5 discussions between you and Ezralow regarding, referring or 6 How easily converted would be his renderings to use? 6 relating to Ezralow entering into an owner participation 7 A Oh, that is yet to come. I mean we have — we as 7 agreement with the redevelopment agency. You have no 8 an architect have -- have somewhat of an issue with that 8 documents? 9 because they are -- those are really nice paintings. 9 A Right 10 Q Okay. 10 Q No. 27, all videotapes regarding, referring or 11 A We have to make them real. And, again, we 11 relating to a conceptual redevelopment of the shopping 12 haven't even picked up one -- started on that at all. 12 center. Do you have any videotapes that would -- 13 Q Or even costing it or — 13 A I have a copy of them. They were not created by 14 A We haven't costed it, we haven't done anything to 14 us. That was another outfit. 15 what I call the real architecture side of the -- to date 15 Q Who created that? 16 it's just been design and concepts and what -ifs. And, like 16 A Font's Designs. 17 I say, pretty pictures and all that stuff, so — 17 Q F-o-n-t? 18 Q Would demolition occur before those type of more 18 A Uh-huh. I9 hard architectural blueprints are created? 19 Q Do you know where they're located? 20 A That is an owner's prerogative. Ownership may 20 A They're in this building. 21 decide to demo a building with or without any documents, or 21 Q You directed the client to that? 22 they may -- you know, depending on their prerogative. 22 A No — I -- yes 23 Q Typically, though -- 23 Q Your client. 24 A I've seen it go both way with clients. 24 No. 28, all documents depicting a redeveloped 25 Q Okay. No. 19, all documents exchanged between 25 shopping center including without limitation promotional or 275 •277 1 you and Ezralow regarding, referring or relating to 1 advertising material regarding, referring or relating to 2 redevelopment agency's eminent domain powers? 2 the shopping center. Everything you have -- 3 A There are none. 3 A You've seen. 4 Q No documents exist for that. 4 Q -- we have see seen today? 5 All documents -- number 20, all documents 5 A Right 6 exchanged between GFA and Ezralow or any of its principals 6 Q No. 29, all documents -- actually, strike that. 7 regarding, referring or relating to redevelopment agency's 7 MR. COHEN: Okay. Alan, do you have any questions? 8 eminent domain powers? 8 MR. WATSON: No, I don't have any questions. 9 A I thought you just said that 9 MR. COHEN: Okay. Then what well do is well relieve 10 Q No. This is a little different. 10 the court reporter of her duties. The transcript will be 11 A Okay. 11 prepared and sent to Mr. Coda at his place of business 12 Q This is — 12 here. Youll enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope 13 A It's okay. 13 with it that will be then addressed to our offices, Tuchman 14 Q -- exchange between — well, okay. Actually it 14 & Associates. Mr. Coda will have 30 days to review and 15 is the same. I'm sorry. __ 15 make any changes, if necessary, to the transcript and then 16 There are no documents exchanged between GFA and 16 mail it to us with the self-addressed stamped envelope. 17 any of these entities regarding eminent domain or -- 17 THE WITNESS: That's from the date of receipt? 18 A No. 18 MR. COHEN: From the date of receipt. We will retain 19 Q -- or condemnation? ' 19 custody of the original. 20 A No. We're — we're not even involved in that — 20 ' MR. COHEN: Youll sign it under penalty of perjury. 21 know about 21 Should the original not be signed or if the original is 22 Q And we received all documents that reflect all 22 lost or misplaced, then a certified copy will be used in 23 meetings regarding the shopping center and its 23 its place. 24 redevelopment? 24 And then, also, again, just for the record, that 25 A Yes, you have. 25 Mr. Coda is going to maintain custody of Exhibits 19 -- 276 1 278 26 (Pages 275 to 278) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 THE WITNESS: 7. 1 2 MR. COHEN: -- 7 through 209. And it will be made 2 3 available upon reasonable request. Is that stipulated? 3 4 THE WITNESS: That's stipulated. 4 5 MR. WATSON: That's fine. 5 6 MR. COHEN: Okay. Also, and the same will apply to 6 7 Volume 1, whatever -- the original -- I think you 7 8 maintained the copies of the originals of the exhibits 8 9 to -- that we attached in your first deposition July 27. 9 10 THE WITNESS: I think we maintained the originals and 10 11 you took the copy. 11 12 MR. COHEN: Exactly. And so the originals will be 12 13 made available upon reasonable request, if necessary. 13 14 THE WITNESS: Sure. 14 15 MR. COHEN: So stipulated. 15 16 MR. WATSON: Sure, that's fine. 16 17 THE WITNESS: Sure. 17 18 MR. COHEN: Okay. That's it. 18 19 MR. WATSON: I want a copy of the transcript, but 1 19 20 don't want any of those, no drawings. 20 21 (Off-the-record discussion was held.) 21 22 MR. COHEN: Let's go back on the record. As we 22 23 discussed earlier, Mr. Coda will make copies of Exhibits 23 24 160 to 19 -- 24 25 THE WITNESS: 6 -- 7 -- 25 279 1 281 1 MR. WATSON: 5. 2 MR. COZEN: Yeah, 195, and you will send those out to 3 your copying service, and we will be presented with their 4 invoice, and we will pay that invoice. 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. 6 MR. COHEN: Is that stipulated? 7 THE WITNESS: Sure. Is it okay if we — what I was 8 thinking of, well send them over to them, and III have 9 them deliver it directly to someone. to MR. COHEN: Yeah. Probably the court reporter will l l have to then take custody of it 12 THE WITNESS: But I don't know the court reporter 13 wants to stick around for an hour or so waiting for that. 14 I can have them all delivered. I mean if that's — 15 MR. COHEN- You're close by, Jilin is close by. So 16 what Mr. Coda win do is then after the copies are_, made, 17 hell have someone deliver it to the offices — the court 18 reporter's offices of Jilio & Associates. Okay. Is that 19. agreeable? 20 THE WITNESS: TLat's agreeable to me. 21 MR. WATSON: 'Mat's fine. 22 ( Whereupon, the deposition proceedings 23 concluded at 1:55 p.m.) 24 25-- (DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY ATTACHED HERETO.) 280 27 (Pages 279 to 281) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS " A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - ability 197:6 238:25 260:23 264:12 able 185:8 198:3,5 245:24,25 about 184:5,5 186:24 188:12 191:4 192:3 197:21 199:7,15 203:5 206:6 207:1 208:2 208:3 211:19 212:12,15 213:9 218:1 225:7,9,16 227:1 229:22 234:10 235:5,20 236:23 238:10,10 238:17 251:10 256:19 258:13 261:7 263:23 267:5 268:22 270:9 276:21 above 219:9 222:1 .224:11 225:5 235:16 237:15 241:9 above -referred 190:13 191:19 192:23 194:16 198:23 201:1 202:5 203:23 204:20 209:22 214:9 215:8 218:17 219:18 221:9 222:25 224:3,17 225:25 226:17 227:11 228:6 229:7 231:20 232:11 233:20 234:16 236:10 240:18 241:20 242:12 243:15 247:8 248:14 250:24 251:23 252:20 254:14 255:12 256:7 257:8 258:4 258:19 261:8,23 263:25 265:13 266:19 267:11 269:4 Absolutely 250:23 acceptable 183:23,24 254:8 268:16,17 access 202:25 231:13 235:24 accomplish 201:10 211:12 238:12 249:2 accomplished 249:3 accordingly 186:2 achieve 268:4 acquired 191:2 across197:1 action 189:5 activity 200:1 actual 191:10 196:10 217:17,17,21 267:3 267:21 actually 185:7,9 187:18 190:21 191:3 195:13 208:7 210:4,18 216:25 218:3,9 221:21 222:10,15 224:25 225:13 230:4,7,12,14,15 230:18 231:13 232:4 234:25 238:24 242:5 243:5 246:7 249:21 253:11 260:17,17,24 264:10,17 266:2,7 267:2,19,20 269:13 274:7 276:14 278:6 adapt 275:1 add 205:8 220:8 246:13 262:12 added 195:8 215:3 224:11 232:7 243:6 adding 179:14 210:13 236:16 addition 236:16 267:3 additional 202:21 addressed 278:13 adjacent 179:10 220:1,25 227:4 adjustments 188:9 admonitions 183:17 183:21,22 advertising 278:1 advised 215:25 affect 184:23 affecting 184:3 afraid 209:12 after 191:4 193:11 197:6 207:16 208:4,4 223:10 239:23 253:16,17 264:24 280:16 again 186:17 189:13 194:23 195:1,12 197:9,9 199:15 200:2 202:2,19,20 203:11 204:5 206:5 207:5 211:10,17 213:10 213:16 216:1 . 218:2 220:1 223:7 223:10,21 224:10 224:11 228:17 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.2S.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 232:21 233:10 237:9,13,14 238:8 240:10 241:3 244:5,24 245:9 247:20 249:18 250:9 251:8,12 253:23 259:1,6 260:21 262:3,18,22 266:1 268:1, 7,10 269:12,18,25 271:2 273:25 275:11 278:24 agency 272:17,21 277:7 agency's 276:2,7 agreeable 280:19,20 agreed 212:18 254:5 agreement 208:16,19 277:7 ahead 205:4 206:13 alan 177:9 278:7 allow 202:20 allowable 247:22 almost 255:23 along 198:6 210:13 210:14 234:9 240:12 244:9 262:19 267:16 270:1 already 268:24 alternate 179:18,20 227:18,19,19 243:23 alternates 244:1 although 184:10 always 190:22 195:2 197:10 244:5,24 264:14,18 among 273:21 amount 179:8 219:4 anchor 201:12 235:23 Angeles 177:6,10 another 188:10 190:25 191:1 202:2,12,23 203:11 203:17 204:5 209:21 215:6 219:17 221:8 225:1 226:15 228:5 229:5 231:19 232:10 233:19 234:15 241:18 242:11 243:13 247:6 248:10 250:19 255:10 256:4,23 257:7 258:18 262:3 265:11 269:2 277:14 answer 271:3 anticipate 232:20 anymore 236:18 anyone 185:22 188:18,20189:6,11 212:24 anything 187:16 189:6 211:19 213:17 238:23 249:2 265:1 274:13,15,23,23 275:14 anyway 191:1 apparently 263:2 APPEARANCES 177:1 appears 200:19 226:25 227:20 application 189:2 apply 183:22 279:6 approach 237:10 appropriate 239:3 approved 187:18 188:23 approximately 192:14 207:22 249:9 April 253:13 arch 264:8 architect 186:5 238:25 260:18 273:14 275:8 architectural 213:25 214:1 275:19 architecturally 248:4 274:13 architecture 275:15 area 179:8,11 182:9 188:10198:4 205:18,24 212:7 215:20 219:5,6,8 221:20,23,24 223:13 225:9 227:1 229:25 230:4,17 232:8 241:8 246:1 256:17 262:19 264:20 266:12 267:9 areas 200:10,11 204:11 244:22 267;1 269:15 around 188:5 202:17 205:10,15 211:4-- 280:13 art 205:8 articulation 259:18 aside 248:4 asked 213:1 239:17 239:23 248:21 250:9 251:12 270:9 271:19,21,25 272:8 asking 249:16 Page 282 associates 175:9 176:8 177:4 272:9 278:14 280:18 assume 232:20 attach 268:13 attached 191:23 193:2 194:20 199:2 201:5 202:9 204:2,24 210:1 214:13 215:12 218:21 219:22 221:13 223:4 224:7,21 226:4,21 227:15 228:10 229:11 231:24 232:15 233:24 234:20 236:14 240:22 241:24 242:16 243:19 247:12 248:18 251:3 252:2,24- 279:9 280:25 Attorney 177:5,9 attorneys 272:3 attractive°225:13 248:25 August 175:23 176:24 183:1 192:15 available 198:18 268:14 279:3,13 Avenue 176:22 197:9 aware 184:18 187:8 266:10 away 196:24 211:13 211:14 221:23 a.m 175:23 176:23 183:1 B 178:6 179:3 180:3 181:3 182:3 back 189:2 190:10 192:1,9 195:2 200:24 205:22 210:24 212:3,6 214:7 219:1,7 221:6,21,22 226:9 227:21 228:3 231:16 241:6,7,8 245:2,3,7 248:21 251:7,13 254:12 256:6 262:13 268:10,21 279:22 backed 265:10 background 194:10 264:7 bad 211:12 balconies 205:14 214:18 balcony 246:20 bankruptcy 184:2,11 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 'LANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.2S.00 BURLIM, ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 184:22 bar 230:19 Barnes 262:14 base 210:25 211:7 basically 188:22 201:10,21205:2,24 221:25 226:7 234:3 237:20 267:1 270:5 273:6 273:7 basis 208:25 battery 213:6 215:24 beach 175:5 176:5 176:20 189:17 194:15 207:11 257:17 bean 225:17 bearings 262:5 before 176:20 183:22 184:6 186:17,19 188:5 195:18 196:6,9 214:18,19 219:5 224:12 237:25 250:17,22 259:7 267:20 274:9 275:18 begin 201:14 beginning 204:12 238:11 241:25 242:2 behalf 176:19 183:6 behind 235:9 being 213:22 216:15 220:7,12 believe 187:12,18,20 190:11 196:3,7,9 211:5 230:23 242:19 251:12 254:20 271:2,3 below 215:4 besides 261:1 best 187:1,2 211:5 228:15 235:3 263:1 275:1 better 195:16 225:8 230:10 between 195:8198:9 199:7 201:15,16 202:23 208:17 213:8 219:11 229:13 232:5,25 238:5 271:21,25 272:2,9,12,14,16 272:21 273:3,17,21 274:3 275:25 276:6,14,16, 277:5 beyond 215:5 big 185:20 214:23 220:22 261:1 bill 208:24 209:2 bills 209:1 bit.198:6 199:10 212:3 235:10 blah 195:10 207:19 207:19,19 225:15 blanche 206:20 213:17 blanked 253:8 block 196:22 212:16 215:3 218:13,14 254:23 blocking 199:18 203:6 blueprints 275:19 board 182:8,10 212:3 267:1,5,21 boards 265:10 Bob 249:17,17,18 250:2 271:18 273:13 Bob's 249:19 bollard 231:9 bollards 230:24 231:7,11 264:19 both 195:25 245:21 275:24 bottom 237:5 254:13 256:5 Boulevard 177:5 257:17 box 205:23 261:1 boxy 269:21 brainstorm 238:10 break 221:23 222:5 223:8 228:23 235:5 269:23 breakdown 179:13 bridge 254:25 262:8 262:17,20 bridges 181:22 262:4 262:12 brief 190:9 215:14 229:20 232:2 269:10 bring 186:25 bringing 246:11 broad 209:14 brought 252:15 Bryan 273: ]-7 Bucci 249:17 271:18 273:13 build 203:5 235:21 247:24 248:1 building 179:22 182:6 196:20,25 197:5,8 198:1 201:9,12,16,16 202:15,18,22,24 203:4,4 204:9 205:15 210:13,20 210:24 211:11 220:3 227:22 228:16,17 229:22 231:6 233:13 234:7,8 235:19,21 244:2,8,16,16 245:13,15,16 246:13 251:7 252:7 254:25 256:19 265:12 266:2 270:20,20 273:8,10 275:21 277:20 buildings 180:13 197:2 198:6 202:14 213:3 227:7 235:5 237:1 237:1 245:25 246:2,3,5,9 254:24 257:16,19 258:16 259:7 262:19 266:8 267:24 275:2,3 built 240:3,4 268:3,5 268:6 bunch 193:8 195:14 227:6 230:14 254:1 Burling 180:19 burlington 175:5 176:4,19 178:12,14 178:18,19,21,22 180:23 188:14 193:20,22,23,25,25 195:1,8,22196:15 196:19 197:5,18,19 197:25 198:1,10,15 199:8 200:9 201:9 202:14,16,23 203:4 204:8 211:8,11,22 211:23 212:22 213:9 220:2 223:15 244:2,8,16 251:6,13 266:16 270:19,20 273:23 business 184:8 278:11 busy 230:17 b-o-l-l-a-r-d-s 230:24 C 233:13 CAD 249:24 250:1 california 175:1,6 176:1,5,23 177:6 177:10 183:2 call 208:4 213:4 219:14 275:15 called 183:6 207:10 248:13 calling 229:18,23 came 195:15 211:10 capabilities 240:5 capability 266:5 care197:21 cars 230:23 231:14 carte 206:20 213:17 case 175:8 176:7 194:25 195:7 198:4,8 244:1 Cathy 176:20 cause 185:19,24 186:24 193:7 195:20 203:11 210:19 222:16 230:15 234:10 244:8 246:22 253:22 256:15 259:14,16 265:9 266:9 267:17 274:23 ceiling 228:22,24 center 175:9176:8 178:16 189:16 191:16193:10,10 193:12 194:7,15,24 195:6,24196:1 197:9 199:13,23 200:3,8 205:16 211:5 213:5,9 216:1219:11,12,15 220:4 225:5 233:12 264:6 269:12 273:4,23 276:23 277:12,25 278:2 central198:3 certain 186:18 207:2 260:9 264:10 certainly 184:11,21 certified 176:21 183:8 278:22 change 230:2 232:3 changes 186:7 278:15 chips 182:11267:21 chosen 188:15 Christina 209:3 Christmas 238:4 chunk 196:6 Cinema 184:2 circle 264:15,18 Circuit 179:10 219:12,25 220:2,14 220:17,25 cities 268:2 city 179:10 187:9,11 187:16,19,23 188:18,20 189:2 216:8,18 217:1 219:12,25 220:2,15 220:17,25 237:25 238:14,23,24 239:6 239:12 240:9 260:9,16,17 267:17 270:14,14,17,24 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 283 271:6,8,11 claim 187:14 clear 268:11 client 191:2.208:22 211:20 215:17 220:8,11 237:17 239:7 253:6 259:24 260:15 265:25 266:4 269:19 271:7 272:24 277:21,23 clients 275:24 client's 225:12 close 184:8 196:25 210:9,9 256:15 280:15,15 closed 273:21 closing 196:10 clothing 252:13 club 215:18 coat 175:5 176:4,19 178:12,14,18,21,22 180:19,23 195:1 197:5 198:15 201:9 202:14,16,24 203:4 204:8 220:2 244:2 251:6 Coat's 270:19,20 coda 175:22 176:18 183:5,14 190:11 193:4 194:22 199:4 210:3 221:15 250:21 254:5 268:12,13 278:11,14,25 279:23 280:16 Cole's 181:6 252:9 color 182:8,10 254:2 254:4 255:11 256:4 266:25 267:17,21268:3 269:14 colors 267:5,18 come 188:6 205:21 225:7 235:2 238:11 246:12,22 255:22 264:15 275:7 comes 241:2 274:24 comfortable 240:5 260:21 coming 195:14 207:25 211:4 231:14 233:14 234:8 237:16,21 240:12 243:3 247:19 264:9 commencing 176:23 comment 212:24 comments 211:25 213:14 commission 206:19 common 182:9 200:10 267:1 communication 240:9 companies 184:14,16 185:17 company 175:10,11 175:11,12 176:9,10 176:11,11 181:7 185:13,23 191:5 compared 234:9 248:25 complex 199:14 200:5,14 201:9 205:9 222:8 component 195:22 195:23 computer 190:19 205:5 217:18 218:4 250:4 252:6 computer -generated 265:21 concept 179:23 195:2 197:7 198:14 202:2,12 215:1 222:10,22 225:2,8 230:2,2 237:21 258:12 259:7 265:2 266:3 268:1 concepts 195:15 204:6 212:4 235:9 275:16 conceptual178:12 178:14,16,17,19,20 178:22,23,25 179:7 179:8,9,11,12,14 179:15,17,21 180:11,12,21,23 193:5 194:14 199:5 204:5 209:13 229:5,13 239:3 248:13 250:19 265:4 274:10 277:11 concern 213:21 244:6 concerned 230:15 238:24 260:23 261:15 concerning 273:20 277:4 concluded 280:23 conclusion 195:15 211:4,11 235:2 237:16 concrete 231:1,1 condemnation 276:19 conditions 178:9,10 190:18,20 configuration 203:9 connect 262:20 connected 222:20 connects 262:8 consideration 244:22 construction 186:22 274:16 275:5 contemplating 205:10 continued 188:5 212:19 269:18,23 continuing 214:21 contractor 186:25 187:2 contractors 186:15 186:18,21,23 187:7 contrasting 235:13 conversation 240:1 converted 275:6 convinced 221:19 copies 190:1 268:12 279:8,23 280:16 copy 189:24 191:22 193:1 194:19 199:1 200:20 201:4 202:8 204:1 Z04:23 209:2,25 214:12 215:11 218:20 219:21 221:12 223:3 224:6,20 226:3,20 227:14 228:9 229:10 231:23 232:14 233:23 234:19 236:13 240:21 241:23 242:15 243:18 247:11 248:17 251:2 252:1,23 270:3 277:13 278:22 279:11,19 copying 280:3 corner 181:12,14 210:4 218:6,12 233:12 254:13 255:23,25 256:6,15 257:16,17-259:3 Corporation 175:6 176:5 . correct 187:19 191:15,17 192:3 193:18,19 196:9 197:16 198:17,19 200:16 201:24 203:19 207:8 211:24 217:13,14 218:6,7 222:18 223 :14,16 229:3 231:15 236:4 237:6,23 238:3 241:10,13 244:12 244:13,19 245:18 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 245:20,22,24 246:9 255:3,6,8 256:25 257:21 258:2 262:9 265:5 268:1 269:1 270:4 271:23,24 272:10 272:11,13,15 273:19 275:4 correctly 196:4 254:20 correspondence 270:7 Costco 179:7 215:18 216:4 Costco's 215:24 costed 275:14 costing 275:13 costs 189:25 190:1 COUNSEL 177:1 COUNTY 175:2 176:2 couple 186:23 230:18 court 175:1 176:1 189:1 190:1,16 191:22 193:1 194:19 199:1 201:4 202:8 204:1 204:23 209:25 214:12 215:11 218:20 219:21 221:12 223:3 224:6,20 226:3,20 227:14 228:9 229:10 231:23 232:14 233:23 234:19 236:13 240:21 241:23 242:15 243:18 247:11 248:17 251:2 252:1,23 254:17 255:15 256:10 257:11 258:7,22 261:11 262:1 264:3 265:16 266:22 267:14 269:7 278:10 280:10,12 280:17 courtyard 196:21 197:3 198:2 205:11 courtyards 201:13 cover 189:15 263:10 covered 189:16 236:3,4 262:20 266:12 create 190:22195:3 201:13 220:22 250:8 251:12 274:5 created 191:12 195:11,12 218:10 218:11 225:17 249:7 250:15 251:16 259:12 262:21 264:23 265:2 267:7 269:24 270:11 275:19 277:13,15 creates 274:14 creating 180:16 204:11212:6,7 213:16 242:1 271:1 creation 213:21 214:1 217:19,21 218:11 250:21 creative 206:10 crossed 252:16 cross -hatched 236:25 237:6,14 curbs 230:7 current 225:14 237:12 240:4" 259:17 261:19 currently 186:9 custody 268:11 270:2 278:19,25 280:11 customers 231:14 cut 263:1 C-o-d-a 183:14 D 178:1 179:1 180:1 181:1 182:1 dash 202:16 dashed -in 210:24 date178:23 180:15 180:22,24 181:10 185:13 196:8,10 207:23 210:5,5 217:8,9,12,16,17 217:17,18,19,20 218:8,8,11 221:16 224:23 226:6,24 240:17 248:10,11 248:12 249:5,20 250:20,21253:5 255:18 259:10 275:15 278:17,18 dated 221:17 224:25 227:17 228:5 231:19 233:7,19 234:15 238:5 241:19 242:11 243:14 247:7 248:10 254:11 dates 207:25 218:5 270:9 day 184:5 188:7 194:5 218:3 229:18 230:21 Page 284 268:6 days278:14 dead 235:25 241:5 deal 222:13 269:21 dealing 187:9 217:1 241:4 debated 230:17 December 182:13 196:3,9 207:6 226:15 227:18 228:5 229:6 238:5 238:6 253:12 254:11 259:13 262:22,24 269:17 269:25 decide 275:21 decided 213:1 271:9 decision 188:13,16 DECLARATION 280:25 DEFENDANT 177:7 Defendants 175:13 176:13 defined 198:2 defiWtely199:21' degree 212:18 Delaware 175:9,10 175:11 176:9,10,11 deliver 280:9,17 delivered 280:14 demo 275:21 demolition 186:10 275:18 department 181:6 252:6,9 273:4 departure 228:13 depending 275:22 depicted 193:20,23 depicting 277:24 deponent 178:9 181:11,13,15,17,19 181:21,22,24 182:7 182:9,11,13 190:17 254:18 255:16 256:11 257:12 258:8,23 261:12 262:2 264:4 265:17 266:23 267:15 269:8 deponent's 181:7 deposited 187:22 deposition 175:21 176:18 183:16 187:5 188:3 253:22 271:19 279:9 280:22 depths 267:25 descent 197:2 describe 196:15 describing 229:22 description 178:8 179:5 180:5 181:5 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED 'COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLIF% . 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Page 285 eminent 276:2,8,17 enclose 278:12 enclosed 228:22 end 199:8,21 205:16 211:4 219:14,14 222:4 228:14,17 2.30:4 235:25 237:21 238:4 241:5 245:1 ended 207:16 ending 235:18 energy 251:11 enlarge 244:22 enough 219:6 260:2 260:2 entering 277:6 enthusiastic 248:23 251:10 enticing 197:13 entire 229:1 entities 276:17 entitled 243:13 entitlement 248:2 entitlements 247:22 entity 273:1 entrance-264:19 envelope 278:12,16 envision 212:8 245:12 266:8 envisioned 197:10 211:13 264:10 envisioning 201:14 228:23 230:5,23 262:12 264:18 escalator 222:20 essence 215:16 even 198:14 208:1 230:21 238:22 240:3 244:20 265:1 266:1 268:5 272:22 275:12,13 276:20 event270:23 ever 208:16 every 189:13,14,15 everyone 238:12 everything 213:18 223:12 232:6 244:4 251:8 272:7 273:5,7 274:11 278:2 exactly 185:6 192:4 193:7 212:1 214:15 249:14 252:4 259:24 - 279:12 EXAMINATION 178:2 183:11 examined 183:8 example 217:20 263:12 exception 226:8 234:4 exchange 276:14 exchanged 271:21,25 272:2,16,20 273:3 273:16 275:25 276:6,16 exciting 206:3 excludes 211:21,22 Excuse 215:22 exercise 242:3 exhibits 189:23 192:12 203:15 207:17 208:2 211:18 216:7 225:6 238:5 242:2 268:11,14 270:6,11 271:5 278:25 279:8,23 exist 197:22,23 210:20 276:4 existing 178:9,10 180:9 190:18,20 191:5 193:10,22,25 194:11 197:8 202:13,24 203:3 207:2 222:2 229:2 234:5,5,7,9 244:15 257:15 exists 206:25 210:21 210:22 expanse 269:15 experience 195:4 expertise 184:11 explain 248:3 expressed 189:18 extending 219:7 extent 189:18 extra 243:4 eyes 225:12 ezralow 175:10,11 176:9,10 184:15 185:17 186:3 187:11.23 189:8,19 206:7,12,15,19 207:23 208:17 212:24 213:14 220:11,13,14 271:22 272:3 273:17,18,22 274:3 276:1,6 277:5,6 Ezralow's 193:11,16 196:1 facade 182:7 246:6 246:15,16 265:12 facility 185:21 197:9 facing 197:9 fact 186:5 263:5 factors 213:24 214:2 FACTORY 175:5 176:4,19 fairly 196:25 fall 196:11 far 187:9,10,15 213:4 214:21 238:18 261:14 fashion 212:16 220:23 features 212:8 February 216:22,23 217:12,23 240:17 241:19 253:12 feel 199:22 206:6 210:8 211:18 225:8 229:18 230:10 232:22 239:2 feeling 206:5 225:8 230:3,11 265:23 feels 238:12 feet 179:19 205:25 222:2,3 227:1,8 244:20,21 245:1,13 247:24 felt 195:4 204:10,12 205:18 206:11 211:19 213:3,3,10 220:1 260:1,6,21 Fifth 177:10 figure 189:1 243:11 250:21 figured 235:23 file 217:24 filed 184:2 final 189:2 199:25 225:22 finalize 188:23 189:6 235:15 finalized 187:25 finalizing 240:11 financial 253:8 find 249:13,15 250:14 251:17 260:12 fine 279:5,16 280:21 finish 240:1 fire 273:4,8 first 180:22,24 183:7 183:16 193:6,6 199:16 206:14,15 213:3 235:4 248:22 251:7,8 253:5,11 270:19 279:9 fit 220:4 flat 259:22 269:15 floor 176:23 177:5 177:10 205:12,19 focus180:14 233:10 234:24 236:25 focused 213:15 focusing 241:1 follows 183:9 234:12 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.2S.00 tBURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Font's 277:16 foot 210:14 227:22 235:19 241:7 footage 179:19 180:20 199:17 210:15 22117 223:19 224:14 227:1,21 232:6 237:5 242:22 243:1,3 247:15,18 247:22 248:5 footpring 180:9 footprint 203:3 210:16,19 234:4 236:21 formal 225:18 237:10 244:3 formalization 225:19 237:9 formalized 225:21 225:21 235:13 264:7 format 215:2 forth 241:8 forward 246:22 found 210:22 fountains 205:8 212:8 four 186:6 frame 269:25 frank 175:22176:18 183:5,14 268:12 Free 200:12 freestanding 205:15 freeway 196:24 199:11 Friday 175:23 176:24 183:1 from 180:8 181:7,18 181:20 182:13 187:4,4,23 188:3,7 188:18,19,20 189:9 189:11 190:21 191:5,12 194:5 195:24 196:24 197:12,12 199:11 199:18,21,23 200:14 212:24 215:17 216:7 219:3 221:23 222:5 223:18 228:14 233:10,14 240:9 243:4 247:19 248:4 250:2 252:5 253:5 254:21 255:20 256:14,15 259:3 260:1,22 262:4,18 263:6 265:2 267:21 271:7 274:10 278:17,18 front 181:16 198:6 246:12 258:11 full 221:24 funds 187:22 further 187:6 188:2 196:15 198:6 F-o-n-t 277:17 G 222:14 gallery 228:21 235:17,24 241:5,5 Gap 224:12 gave 183:17 185:9 206:19 213:16 general212:20 234:11 generally 206:2 243:25 generated 253:19 geometry 180:12 203:2 235:14 236:18 241:2 getting 201:11 204:12 214:22 222:9 262:25 GFA 189:11 191:12 192:14 193:17 208:17 211:15,16 254:11260:23 271:21,25 272:2,9 272:12,14,16,21 273:3,17,22 274:3 274:5 276:6,16 GFA's 274:25 give 189:24190:12 194:22 195:16 196:20 198:16 199:4 201:7 202:11 205:1 206:20 207:2 209:10 210:8 215:14 219:24 221:15 223:6,11 224:9,23 226:6,23 228:12 229:20 232:2 234:22 239:10 240:24 242:18 243:21,25 251:15 253:1 255:18 257:20 258:15 265:19 269:10 given 184:25 185:14 190:1 191:2,10,11 192:13,14 213:22 237:25 244:22 270:6,7,8 gives 211:3 267:25 giving 185:14 216:8 237:10 238:14,15 238:19 go- 188:11 189:2 Page 286 190:8,10,22 191:24 192:1,7,9 196:23 200:21 203:12 214:5 215:24 217:4,6 220:24 221:3.4 223:22,24 226:11 227:25 231:16 236:6 240:14 241:15 247:4 251:19 252:8 253:23,25 264:22 268:7,19,21 270:13 275:24 277:1 279:22 goals 200:10 201:10 goes 184:12 262:8 going 189:23 192:2 195:13 207:19 208:13 212:6 217:9 221:25 224:13 230:7 234:2,22 235:9 247:14 248:20 254:12 264:13 269:2 278:25 gonna 183:21 184:12 184:23 185:19 188:24 189:6 207:13 210:8 212:23,23 215:20 218:11 236:3 244:13 245:16 246:17,23 248:1 253:3 257:6 261:6 261:17 264:12 268:12 270:3 good 184:12 196:6 196:13. 197:7 204:13 206:6,11 208:22 211:19 216:1 233:14 goods 252:14 gotten 187:15 214:18 274:8,13 grabbed 217:24 grand 228:23 graphics 263:5 Gray 207:10 208:12 209:3 211:25 212:24 260:22 270:12 Gray's 213:13 Great 181:16 257:25 258:12 Greenberg-Farro... 238:25 Greenburg-Farrow 176:22 guess184:6 185:19 188:7 200:12 206:9 219:2 225:2 227:17 239:19 _ ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 2ANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00' BURLIN%aTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 240:1 242:9 253:15 263:3. 267:8 269:19 270:13,18 guideline 188:25,25 guy 250:4 guys 184:21207:14 H 178:6 179:3 180:3 181:3 182:3 hand -drawn 180:9 234:4 happen 189:24 195:13 happy 207:12 240:8 hard 203:2 265:10 275:19 hat213:20 having 183:7 200:10 201:11 206:5 212:10 230:4 241:5 270:15 head 246:25 heading 212:21 hear 207:12 heard 184:4,5,6 186:7 260:22,22 hearing 238:7 hectic 196:24 held 191:25 192:8 200:23 204:18 214:6 217:5 221:5 223:25 226:13 228:2 231:17 240:15 241:16 247:5 251:20 253:24 268:9,20 277:2 279:21 help 199:9 228:23 helped 199:19 her 278:10 hereto 191:23 193:2 194:20 199:2 ' 201:5 202:9 204:2. 204:24 210:1 214:13 215:12 218:21219:21 221:13 223:4 224:7,21226:4,21 227:15 228:10. 229:11231:24 232:15 233:24 234:20 236:14 240:22 241:24 242:16 243:19 247:12 249:18 251:3 252:2,24 280:25 hey 265:25 he'll 280:17 hide 206:2 high 244:13 245:13 245:15,16 him 186:6 249:19 254:7 263:6,23 265:2 273:12 hindered 213:12 hindsight 225:14 hired 186:16 260:3 hiring 187:7 hodgepodge 225:20 hold 225:3 254:5 holland 177:8 272:1 honest 265:22 hoping 236:1 hour 280:13 hourly 208:25 209:9 hours 209:9 230:16 253:7 house 245:4,8 Hughes 209:3 huntington 175:5,9 176:5,8,20 189:16 189:17 194:15 207:11 272:9 hurt 265:23 idea 185:24 196:23 265:1 identical 217:11 227:21 identification 190:11 190:15 191:9,21 192:19,25 194:18 198:25 201:3 202:7 203:22,25 204:19,22 209:20 209:24 214:11 215:10 217:3 218:19,23 219:20 221:7,11 222:24 223:2 224:1,5,19 225:23 226:2,14,19 227:9,13 228:4,8 229:5,9 231:18,22 232:9,13 233:18,22 234:14,18 236:8,12 240:13t�20 241:14:18,22 242:10,14 243:13 243:17 247:1,10 248:9,16 250:13 251:1,22,25 252:19 252:22 254:16 255:14 256:9 257:7,10 258:6,17 258:21 261:10,25 264:2 265:15 266:18,21 267:13 269:6 identifier 212:18 213:16 identify 215:14 II 175:9 176:8,18 immaterial 214:3 impact 185:20 244:3 244:7 270:14,18,22 270:24 271:4 impacted 199:21 impacting 188:8 important 199:22 264:13 improvement 199:10 INC 175:5 176:5,20 include 204:14 211:8 220:14 included 207:3 242:5 242:8 273:17 includes 188:14 196:14197:18,19 200:8 including 229:2 273:21277:25 inclusive 175:12 176:12 increase 179:19 226:25 increasing 179:8 219:4 indicate 237:1 270:17 indicated 217:22 219:5_ indicates 218:15 253:6 indicating 200:20 205:22 222:1 227:2 237:15 246:5 256:22 257:2 259:6 264:19- indication 212:20 Indoors 181:16 257:25 258:12 industry 193:19 information 182:16 207:14 208:4 253:8 271:17 informed 186:3 initial 240:2 initials 249:20 input 216:8 238:1,2 238:14,15,19 ins 259:20 inserted 252:7 inserting 198:9 inside 196:21200:2 254:21 255:7 264:6,17 installation 213:6 instance 212:5 instructions 207:2 intended 237:18 intending 267:22 intent 202:19 interest 189:18 interested 269:22 interesting 236:19 interior 196:21 254:23 internal203:7 206:10 207:18 216:14,14 274:2,5 274:6 Interruption 247:3 interviewed 186:24 introduce 230:1 invoice 189:25 253:12 280:4,4 invoices 181:7 209:4 209:15 252:15 253:5,14- involved 216:19 262:25 272:22 276:20 involvement 259:15 259:16 269:13 inwards 255:21. Island 212:16 issue 180:8185:18 204:10 220:3 222:14 228:24 233:10 241:4 245:9 264:14 275:8 issues 185:20199:6 199:20 Italian 237:21 J 177:9 223:9,13 James 273:11 January 216:23 231:19 233:19 234:15 237:23 238:11253:12 Jilin 280:15,18 jog 259:7 John 273:15 jour 232:23 July 183:16187:4 188:19 189:9 192:15 193:15 210:5 211:4 248:12 249:5 250:20 279:9 June 192:15 193:15 253:13,14,16,17 June -July 207:24 just 184:4 192:12 194:11 195:23 196:2 207:9,12 208:24 209:11 211:11 213:7,11,11 213:15 214:24 215:1217:7,15,25 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 287 221:23 224:9,13 226:6 228:12 229:20,23 230:5,20 232:2,5,7 233:3 235:23 236:18 238:3 239:22,23 240:4,24 243:1,6,9 246:5,15 248:5 249:1 250:2 253:1 253:22,25 258:13 259:22 260:25 261:2 262:19 268:10,21270:2,5 273:6 274:6,18 275:16 276:9 278:24 K 223:13 keep 184:8 213:18 243:11 keeping 202:13 kept 187:13 268:11 key 185:22195:5 199:12,12 264:11 kidding 253:22 . kind 189:14190:6,24 195:1 199:12 208:9 213:6 218:15 221:21 223:21 235:2 237:16 240:25 259:8,22 266:12 268:4 kinda 189:19192:5 194:11 195:9,20 196:23 212:2 218:13 225:15 238:9 256:2 260:2 264:9 266:3 knew 195:22 212:17 knight 177:8 272:1 know 184:4,4,10,22 185:4,14 186:1,8 186:14,15 187:1,9 187:10,22,24 188:16192:5,6,13 196:2,11 198:7 199:11 207:5,11,22 208:6,7,9 210:18 212:2,9 214:17 216:4 217:25 220:16,20 222:21 232:19,21234:7,13 235:23 238:18 239:2 240:3 242:5 243:3,24 244:20 245:24 247:18 249:7,8,13,14 251:16 254:7 258:14 259:12,16 . 259:25 262:21 263:7 264:25 265:22,23;24 266:1 267:7 268:22 270:14 271:6,8,10 271:11,14 273:7,12 274:11 275:22 276:21 277:19 280:12 known 243:6 labeled 242:1 landed 207:20 large 199:14,17 200:10 225:4 239:1 245:11 246:3 254:2,4 255:11 267:20 269:15 larger 179:11,13 212:5 219:13 221:20 222:3 223:9 224:14 227:7 largest 206:1,2 last 187:5,17 192:15 193:15 194:5 197:10 207:4 212:15 219:3 236:7 249:11 270:8,12 late 253:20 later 243:7 Law 177:5,9 laying 266:3 leading 205:8 learned 260:15 lease 201:19 222:8 235:25 leasing 222:12 least 240:9 leave 197:2,3 213:7 250:17.22 264:15 leaving 194:25 195:7 195:21 270:20 left 195:9 199:25 205:20 218:6 221:1,1 245:17 265:7 length 221:24. let 236:1 260:12 let's 187:12190:8,10 191:18,24 192:1,7 192:9 193:9 194:8 200:17,18,21,24 209:18 214:4 217:2,4,6 219:16 219:16 220:16 221:4 223:24 226:11 231:16 239:25 240:14 241:15,17 247:4 248:9 251:18,19,21 253:10,23,25,25 255:9 261:20 265:9 268:7,18,21 277:1 279:22 level 180:22,24 197:24,24 198:14 199:16,16 202:20 246:13 248:22 251:8,8,13 260:5 270:19 levels 246:20 262:20 liability 175:9,11,12 176:9,10,11 274:14 license 206:10,11 tight 189:5 tightest 186:7 like 185:5 188:5,9 . 189:21,22 194:5 197:7 200:19,20 205:3 206:17 207:16 209:15 210:12 212:4,15 215:2,5 216:2 217:3 223:12 229:18 230:8,13,22 232:4,7 240:13 241:14,17 243:12 244:5,18 246:7,7 246:19,20,24 247:6 247:23 249:19 250:13 251:17 252:5,12,18 255:10 259:6,19 263:8,8 263:14 265:4 266:7 267:10,24 268:5 269:15 274:2,24 275:16 liked 212:12 likely 210:25 limitation 277:25 limited 175:9,10,11 176:9,10,11 197:6 206:25 line 202:16 235:5 lines 205:21 lingo 185:19 Linscott 272:12 litigation 254:6 tittle 188:11 198:6,16 199:10 212:3,9 215:2 225:10 227:6,7 230:9 235:10 243:21 244:18 265:3 269:23 276:10 LLP 177:8 loading 197:9 locate 215:18 located 277:19 location 184:13 185:9 196:19,25 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 197:5.6 204:9 210:16 211:12 213:11 215:18 220:1,15 235:16 logo 254:11 long 225:9 longer 210:21,22 212:23 258:1 look 186:23 188:21 189:19,22 197:11 197:12 202:20 203:6,11 209:15 210:4 214:19 219:4,7 222:11 225:14 230:7,8,22 232:5 235:4,7 236:17 240:9 243:9,9 246:7,19 266:3 269:18 looked 195:7 199:6 202:15,17 212:15 267:2 looking 187:13 198:15 202:13 207:9,18 210:12,17 212:2,13 214:18 241:2,3 244:24 249:1 254:22 255:21,23 256:2,14 256:19 259:6 262:4,17 264:6 looks 191:16 200:19 200:20 210:12 216:2 232:7 249:19 252:5 263:19 268:5 looser 235:10 LOREN 177:4 Los 177:6,10 lost 278:22 lot 185:20 197:2 219:8 221:20 225:10 238:9 239:21,22 259:18 271:20 low 245:25 246:2 lower 218:6,12 L-shaped 203:3,8 Macerich 191:5 made 197:14,20 213:8 279:2,13 280:16 mail 278:16 main 185:18 197:1 215:4 230:13 232:25 235:5 maintain 278:25 maintained 270:2 279:8,10 major 188:8 205:8 majority 234:12 make 189:2 192:3 194:24 207:15 212:24 230:10 235:24 240:8 246:6,7,19 268:12 268:13 270:3,5 275:11 278:15 279:23 makes 207:20 making 195:5 mall 189:17193:17 194:2 207:11 216:5 229:2 233:16,17 234:5 255:7 management 186:22 manufacturers 267:21 many 185:5,8,18,24 186:1,4 189:8 209:8 220:21 223:21,21 244:20 253:9 March 216:23,23 242:11 243:14 247:7 264:24 267:8 mark 189:23 190:10 191:8 192:9,19• 194:14 198:22 200:25 202:4 203:22 204:19 209:20 214:8 215:6 217:3,9 218:23 219:16 221:6,7 222:23 224:1,16 225:23 226:14 228:4 229:4,4 231:18 232:9 233:18 234:14 236:8 240:13,16 241:14 241:17,18 242:10 243:12,12 247:1,6 248:9 250:13 251:21,21 252:18 253:3 254:10 255:10 256:4 257:6,6 258:3,17 263:24 265:9,10,11 266:18 267:10 269:2 marked 178:8 179:5 180:5 181:5 182:5 190:14 191:20 192:24 194:17 198:24 201:2 202:6 203:24 204:21 209:23 214:10 215:9 218:18 219:19 Page 288 221:10 223:1 224:4,18 226:1,18 227:12 228:7 229:8 231:21 232:12 233:21 234:17 236:11 240:19 241:21 242:13 243:16 247:9 248:15 250:25 251:24 252:21 254:15 255:13 256:8 257:9 258:5,20 261:9,24 264:1 265:8,14 266:20 267:12 268:25 269:5 marketplace 212:14 marking 233:5 261:21 mass 199:17 203:7 233:13 246:16,17 246:23 259:8 massing.202:19 213:10 massive 200:15 201:12 211:12 master 179:23 180:6 180:8 229:6,14 232:17 233:7 material 182:8 267:1 278:1 materials 267:4,18 268:3 matter 245:19 maximum 247:22 may 190:25 208:1 253:13 255:22 266:7,7 275:20,22 maybe 193:6 201:18 206:9 215:2 216:22 220:17,18 224:23 245:2,12 272:24 mean 184:4 185:2,18 188:9,22 196:23 209:12,13 212:19 214:24 220:18 225:13 239:3,22 240:1 243:9 244:21 249:13 250:6 253:16 274:14,15,23 275:5 275:7 280:14 meaning 222:17 252:16 meant 216:17 medium 223:11 meet 189:12 215:24 273:12 meeting 189:15 274:12 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 °RANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLII 'ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER g., meetings 189:8- 276:23 memoranda 274:2,3 274:6 memory 238.3 mentioned 184:19 186:17,19 213:10 225:2 235:20 260:8 Mervyn 202:24 Mervyn's 179:10 195:21 202:24 213:2,24 215:20,21 219:11 220:1,25 252:12 266:13 met 186:5,6 238:9 260:16 273:8 middle 219:12 220:3 220:4 238:4 midway 235:6 might 199:19 200:18 206:16 208:1 230:19 241:5 243:5 252:8 274:6- milestone 179:15,17 225:1,2 226:8 million 247:16,17,23 247:24 minds 264:14 minor 188:9 minutes 274:12 misplaced 278:22 missing 179:16 225:18 mix 216:1 220:22 monkey 188:5 Montgomery 178:12 178:14 193:24 194:25 195:7,21 198:9 199:7 201:16 202:14 204:14 213:2,4 215:22,23,23 219:10,10 220:17 221:1222:2 226:10 229:2 235:21 month 270:12 monthly 208:24,25 months-186:7 249:11 249:11` ` more 184:8-198:16 200:15 201:18 205:2,5 208:9 210:25 212:6 213:15 214:17,24 219:14 221:20 225:20 231:13 235:8,13 237:10 239:21,22 259:17. 263:3,4 265:3 . 275:18 morning 230:16 most 245:2 268:2 move 191:18 194:8 198:8 200:17,24 202:1 204:16 209:18 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204:7 one-shot 240:7 one-story.179:21 237:2,2 only-185:13 192:6 227:21265:7 272:4 open 195:1200:1 212:7 225:4 228:21 230:4 235:11,13 236:1 237:9,19 241:11,13 244:22 opened 233:13 opinion 220:5 opportunities 203:13 orange 175:2176:2 212:16 order 190:6,7193:8 246:21 253:11 orientation 220:23 original 195:2 200:19 278:19,21 278:21 279:7 originally 237:18 originals 279:8,10,12 other 184:14,15,21 185:7,17 189:13,14 197:8 199:8,21 209:10 214:2 242:25,25 244:1 245:9,13 270:6 273:1 others 184:19 ourselves 221:19 out 184:21 189:1 190:20,23 196:22 217:18 218:3 229:24 233:3 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 289 243:11 246:12,18 249:13,15 250:14 250:22 251:17 252:16 253:8 255:22 258:15 264:21 280:2 outdoor 195:15 205:18 outfit 277:14 outlet 215:24 outs 259:20 outside 246:3 over 178:19 179:23 186:6 194:11 195:9 202:15,16,18 203:5 204:9 205:23,24 206:1 207:14 208:13 212:5 220:18 221:2 222:10 224:12 225:11 226:9,9 228:16,20 229.24 237:12 238:4,7,7 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HUNTINGTON CENTER pool 205:8 portion 194:12 215:19 portray 267:3 position 209:8 219:10 253:7 possession 272:24 possibilities 203:14 possibility 200:9 possible 246:6 poster 265:10 Posts 231:2 potential 199:21 powers 276:2,8 practical 213:20 275:1 predate 249:12 predates 195:19 preliminary 268:24 prepare 178:11 190:2 prepared 278:11 prerogative 275:20 275:22 present 186:10 206:7 presentable 214:25 presentation 208:9 208:11 215:3 presented 196:17 206:15 207:23 209:6 239:6,12 260:9 271:11 280:3 presenting 211:6 presume 184:9 pretty 221:19 229:19 245:3 268:23 269:21 274:20 275:17 previous 206:9 222:6 228:14 price 187:1 pricing 213:22 primary 224:14 principals 276:6 prior 193:13,14,16 195:25 196:8 198:14 207:6,6,7 210:9,9 253:14 259:15 262:10,25 269:13 probably 195:18 207:13,20 208:2,3 211:6 214:22 227:1 231:9 239:4 247:23 248:1 259:13,14 260:14 264:24 269:17 280:10 problem 199:9 203:1 203:8 245:10 problematic 198:10 245:7 problems 196:16 197:20 222:12 proceedings 247:3 280:22 process 187:9,11,16 produce 197:6 210:25 260:6 267:18 271:8 274:16 produced 193:5 260:24 266:25 269:17 271:22 272:10 Professional 176:21 professionally 271:3 profile 244:13 profitable 184:8 proforma 185:25 progressed 187:16 progression 246:4 project 186:4'191:3 191:4 197:1 206:18 208:20,21 215:19 218:16 239:1253:6 255:21 259:2 261:14 267:17 274:8 projects 189:14,15 promotional 277:25 PROPERTIES 175:10 176:10 property 207:10 proposal 257:18 proposed 238:23 proposing 234:12 258:12 prospectives 239:18 prove 261:2 265:25 266:4 provide 268:1 provided 263:19,20 public 179:8,11 184:7 195:4,5,16 205:7 219:4,5,8 221:20,23,24 225:16,19 229:25 244:3,3 246:1 248:24 264:22 pulled 186:11233:2 239:24 purchase 193:11,11 193:14,16 196:1,1 196:7,8,8 207:6 purchased 196:3,6 pure 213:24 214:1,1 purpose 270:21 pursue 184:9 put 190:6,19,24 193:9 201:9 205:4 208:8 216:2 Page 290 220:18,21.25 224:12 228:20 248:24 253:10 254:12 267:20 270:16,25 puts 200:5 putting 178:16,19 199:14.20 202:15 206:1 212:5 251:8 256:5 257:1 270:18,19 p.m 280:23 qualifications 185:1 question 183:25 192:12 questions 278:7,8 quick 183:25 192:12 221:15 223:6 224:9,23 240:24 242:18 quite 191:3 250:7 263:1 quote 21619,20,21 R 260:20 radio 184:6 range 186:9 239:5 259:13 262:23,24 269:17 rate 209:9 rather 230:4 255:11 raze 206:22 229:1 razed 194:1,3 212:23 razing 194:2 re 179:7 180:12 real 275:11,15 reality 261:14 really 205:18 206:3 220:21,21 223:10 233:11 236:15,17 237:8,17 238:23 266:9 275:9 reason 217:23,25 231:12 232:21 264:25 reasonable 268:14 279:3,13 reasons 244:8 recall 208:2 recap 200:4 receipt 278:17,18 received 276:22 recent263:3 270:23 recess 190:9 recommend 206:18 recommending 211:20 record 183:13 190:8 190:10 191:24 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RANK CODA, VOL.2,08.25.00r,- BURLIMTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 192:1,7,10 200:21 200:24 204:17 214:5,7 217:4,6,15 221:3,4,6 223:24 226:11227:25 228:3 231:16 236:6 240:14 241:15,17 247:4 251:19 253:23,25 268:7,8,10,13,19 268:21 277:1 278:24 279:22 redacted 252:16 redevelop 193:17 redeveloped 277:24 redevelopment 272:17,21276:2,7 276:24 277:7,11 Redhill 176:22 reduced 180:20- 200:13 227:20 247:15 reduction 247:18 reface 203:7 257:18 refer 212:6 referring 273:22 276:1,7 277:5,10 278:1 refine 204:7 214:21 refined 178:25 205:2 refining 236:15 reflect 276:22 Reformat 214:24 regard 187:6 212:22 regarding 188:2,13 188:20 213:24 273:22 274:3 276:1,7,17,23 277:5,10 278:1 regardless 184:12 regards 187:11 195:6 Registered 176:20 rejected 201:23 203:18 related 250:12 relates 274:13' relating 273:4,22: 276:1,7 277:6,M 278:1 relation 238:15' , relative 209:8- relevant 209:17` relieve 278:9 . remain 257:16' remember 183:17 196:4 207:10 238:4 254:20 -- 274:9 remove 245:1 removing 244:23 rendering 181:8,10 181:12,14,16,18,22 181:23 182:6 254:11 255:11 256:5 257:7 258:18 262:4 264:5,23 265:12,21 269:3 renderings 181:20 182:12 254:2,4,6 260:9 263:4 265:11 267:2 268:23,24 269:14 274:25 275:6 repeat 212:17 reporter 176:21,21 183:8190:2,16 191:22193:1 194:19 199:1 201:4 202:8 204:1 204:23 209:25 214:12 215:11 218:20 219:21 221:12 223:3 224:6,20 226:3,20 227:14 228:9 229:10 231:23 232:14 233:23 234:19 236:13 240:21 241:23 242:15 243:18 247:11 248:17 251:2 252:1,23 254:17 255:15 256:10 257:11 258:7,22 261:11 262:1 264:3 265:16 266:22 267:14 269:7' 278:10 280:10,12 reporter's 280:18 represent 251:15 reputation 239:1 request 215:17 268:14 270:12,16 271:4 272:8 279:3 279:13 requested 182:16 271:6,8 ---- requesting 270:13 271:7 requires 267:17 residual 195:24 resolve 199:9 resolved 189:7 respect 212:19 responsibility 275:1 restaurant 210:14 212:11 233:13 236:20 254:25 255:24 262:9 restaurants 180:13 236:18 256:18 result 216:3 248:22 retail 175:10 176:9 179:23 199:16 201:18 202:21 204:9 205:25 212:10 222:1,6,8 222:14,14 223:9,13 223:13 224:13 225:11227:5,6 228:20 229:22,23' 229:24 235:17 244:11,11,17,18,23 250:8 252:13 retailer 202:23 227:8 retailers 179:13 197:7 205:14 207:3 219:13 223:10 225:5 227:7 239:1245:2 270:15 retailing 213:22 retain 278:18 retained 178:9 181:11,13,15,17,19 181:21,22,24 182:7 182:9,11,13 190:16 206:20 254:17 255:15 256:10 257:11 258:7,22 261:11262:1 264:3 265:16 266:22 267:14 269:7 retainer 208:16,19 208:23 retaining 187:6 reuse 194:6 211:5 234:10 reusing 193:6 reveal 184:20 reversed 210:19 review 278:14 reviewed 268:22 Richard 259:15 260:3,4 262:25 263:3 266:1 269:13 Richard's 265:1 rid 213:18 246:16 right 185:10,12 187:4,15 190:5 192:18 194:13 195:20 201:9,21,25 205:23 206:16 207:7 210:14,23' 212:21 213:13* 223:23 225:3 227:2 229:17 231:7,15 232:18 237:24 239:19 240:6 243:9 245:21246:15 248:4 249:6,25 250:2,5 251:18 252:10 254:12 256:6 257:2 260:5 263:5,9,11,16 267:9 270:10,23 271:3 272:25 277:9 278:5 right-hand 218:12 road 180:11 181:10 181:24 235:1,1,10 241:2 255:22 262:11 264:9 role 216:25 roll 255:9 Roman's 256:1,2 room 197:2 rooms 245:4 row 244:17 rules 206:23 run 185:25 207:13 S 178:6179:3 180:3 181:3 182:3 same 188:7191:8 195:12 210A6 215:1,16 226:7 232:6,7 248:6,7 257:22 268:3,3,6. 276:15 279:6 sample 182:10 samples 267:17,22 saw 190:21 207:25 238:5 267:20 Sawyer 260:4 Sawyer's 259:15 274:25 saying 200:12 246:21 says 209:8,13 210:6 232:17 scale 218:15 223:11 246:12 scaling 245:10 scape 181:9 scenario 198:15 scheme 201:23 219:8 222:6 241:6 science 186:8 Scott 208:14 216:25 scratch 233:3 screens 185:19,22,24 186:1,4,9 Sears 179:14,17,22 219:9 220:17 221:1,2 224:12 226:9 227:23 228:16 229:23 235:22 258:12 second 176:22 183:15 198:13 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 291 199:14,15 200:22 205:12,19 214:17 215:4 217:4,6 222:8,12 226:12 268:8,19 section 188:11 205:13 see 187:12 192:3 194:4,6,8,10195:9 195:13,17 198:1,5 199:8 200:1,4,18 201:15 202:16 203:10,16 205:7,12 205:21206:8,14,19 207:1,6,14 208:8 208:22 210:5,13,23 210:24 211:21 212:22 216:2,12 219:8,25 220:19 222:13,14 225:22 230:3 233:11,15 234:8,11237:23 239:8 244.17 246:1 248:22,23 251:9 253:10 256:21 59:14,23 260:12161:1 262:1036 263:7,7 263:21 266:6 267:24 269:16,21 272:23 273:10 274:17,19,21,22,24 278:4 seeing 195:1 264:8 seem 215:5 seemed 240:8 seems 250:6 265:3 seen 190:25 269:14 269:14 272:6,7,7 273:5,24,25 274:2 274:11 275:24 278:3,4 self-addressed 278:12,16 semantics 229:15,16 send 207:14 209:2,2 280:2,8 sending 272:4 sense 194:24 207:21 272:18 sent 209:1 212:2 258:14 278:11 separate 205:10 222:7 246:8 separation 213:8 September 221:22 239:4 September -October 181:20 260:15 sequential 246:4 series 194:9 238:5,21 service 280:3 services 263:1 session 183:15,16,23 273:21 set 253:2 shakes 246:25 shaped 256:19 shapes 238:18 shopping 273:4,23 276:23 277:11,25 278:2 shops 199:16 225:10 235:18 237:20 244:9,18,18, 23 245:10 short 225:12 Shorthand 176:21 183:8 shot 193:6,7 show 197:24 209:12 260:25 270:14,17 270:24 271:4,9 showed 240:2 270:16 showing 194:12 244:2 shows 197:25 side 178:16 180:15 185:23 190:24 197:1 200:8 202:21,22 205:20 205:22 213:4,5,8,9 218:6 221:23 225:5 231:4 233:16,17 234:25 235:3,4,7,10,12 236:17 237:8 241:1,5 245:2,12 245:13, 25 246:8 254:22 255:21,22 256:23 259:2 262:14 275:15 sides 245:7 sign 278:20 signed 278:21 significance 232:23 similar 210:11 218:25 220:2 223:7 224:10 226:24 229:21 233:9 265:3 267:16 simple 214:22 simultaneous 238:20 since 187:17 190:19 201:12 single 222:10,11 224:13 228:17 245:12 246:13,22 246:23 258:16 sit 205:20,23,24 268:18 sitting 212:8 situation 231:13 266:10 size 223:11 sized 197:2 sketch 180:14 203:11 240:25 sketches 268:23 sky 241:13 slab 234:9 small 223:10 235:18 237:20 244:9,18 245:10 269:23 smaller 179:13 184:9 206:4 223:9 snapshots 267:2 social 212:10 soft 252:14 solution 198:10 204:13 213:12 solve 199:19 some 179:13 184:19 192:2 198:6 199:20 201:18,18 202:13,21 204:6,9 205:14 206:3 207:14,20,25,25 212:4,7,12,18 213:19 217:7,23 219:2 220:19 222:3,3,21 223:7,8 225:18,19 228:20 229:24 232:21 235:8,18,24 236:17 237:2,2,3 239:3,9 240:2 244:1,1 245:10 249:18 256:18 262:18 265:19 267:2,3 269:14 273:1 274:5 275:1 somebody 207:12 217:24 someone 236:1 260:20 280:9,17 something 195:3,3 196:21 197:3 201:15 206:5,6,24 207:12,15-,20 212:13,14 214:1 220:3 225:13,13 231:11 236:19 237:18,18 238:7,12 240:3 246:13 249:3 260:7 261:1 263:14 268:4 269:17,20,22 sometime 192:16 193:15 211:3 somewhat 225:1 259:6 275:8 somewhere 196:11 211:3 216:19,22,23 260:14 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Sony 184:18 sorry 187:13 216:17 233:1 236:24 240:4 270:9 276:15 sort 189:20 196:15 230:13 250:6 255:4 Sounds 246:24 south 182:12 269:11 269:11 southeast 181:14 257:16 souths 269:12 space 194:1 195:1,9 195:9,16 198:16 200:12 201:19 205:7 211:8, 23 212:22 223:15 225:4.20 228:22 235:11,13 236:3 237:9,14,19 241:11 244:3 245:11 246:4 264:8,22 spaces 195:4,5 225:16,19 237:10 244:3 248:24 special 206:24 207:15 212:13 225:15 237:18 238:7 260:2,6 specific 180:16,17,18 180:20 184:25 186:15 187:14,17 188:23,25 197:15 197:25 213:13 216:18,24 237:13 242:1,3,11,19,20 243:10,14,24,25 247:7,21 248:2 255:4 263:6 266:25 267:9 specifically 270:24 specifications 185:1 185:11,15 186:3 Spectrum 212:16 spell 183:13 spent 251:10 spiral228:23 spoke 271:13,16 spruce 246:10 sprucing 246:8,17 SP-123197:20 SP-13 198:12,13 242:6 263:10,11,15 263:18,19 square 179:19 180:20 199:17 205:25 210:14,15 222:2,17 223:19 224:14 226:25 227:8,20,22 232:6 235:19 237:5 241:7 242:22 243:1,3 244:20,21 245:1 247:15,18,22 247:24 248:5 squares 236:18 stack 189:21 staff 189:12 232:22 265:23,24 stage 223:22 274:8 274:10,22 stages 194:10 stair 235:16 staircase 205:8 228:23 241:11 stairs 229:24 237:12 stamped 278:12,16 standard 193:19 standpoint 274:10 stands 216:4 start 191:3,3 202:20 204:10 210:5 230:1 234:10 235:3 started 191:4 195:15 201:13 205:5,7,17 206:7 216:24 219:4,7,13 221:22 222:7 235:15 236:25 237:8 259:7 275:12 startin 237:17 238:11 starting 194:23 204:11214:16 216:18 223:8 230:9 232:3 233:10 234:6,24 235:7 236:17 242:3 260:1 starts 222:13 274:16 state 175:1 176:1 183:13 stated 226:24 status 186:10 staying 244:2 stepping 246:1 stick 280:13 still 184:8,9 187:8 189:4 195:22 197:22,23 198:1 201:15 212:10 213:15 215:21 216:13 221:18 222:4 225:12,12 230:21 231:9 235:16 238:22 241:3,4,7 246:17 246:23 250:7 260:2 264:20 274:9 stipulated 279:3,4,15 Page 292 280:6 stock 245:4 store 181:6 252:6,9 stores 245:3 stories 237:4 244:10 246:8,19 story 214:17 215:4 222:8,12 228:17 245:12 258:16 260:22 Strada 181:10,18 255:2,22 256:24 259:2 262:9,11 264:20 straight 262:6 straightaway 259:9 street 177:10 181:9 181:18 230:2,3,8 230:13,19,22 231:4 254:22 255:23 259:3 streets 179:24 197:12 254:24 streetscape 232:8 235:1254:21 strike 234:13 240:14 278:6 structure 197:18,20 200:15 204:14 235:11 structures 238:17,18 stucco 259:19,20 studies 195:20 207:17 study 188:11 195:18 207:18 studying 193:8 195:14 208:7 211:17 243:5 247:20 stuff 193:8 197:7 207:18 208:13 218:16 220:7 266:1 274:9 275:17 subject 253:6 submitted 206:12 success 199:12 successful 195:6 199:12 suggesting 246:11 summer 192:16 193:15 207:4 SUPERIOR.175:1 176:1 superstructure 180:10 234:5 supposed 243:25 sure 190:5 193:7 196:10 201:17 209:5,16 221:17 224:25 239:15 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 ANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00V " BURLINts ON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER - 250:16,18 253:2. 254:9 265:21- 266:2 2705-, 279:14,16,17 280:7 Surely 184:1255:20 surrounding 196:22 suspect185:16 sworn 183:7 system 190:19 205:5 systems 213:19 T 178:6179:3 180:3 181:3 182:3 tab 254:12 tables 212:9 tabs 256:5 take 189:22190:23 203:8 207:13. 209:15 215:20 219:1 280:11 taken 176:18 190:9 197:21215:23 takes 250:2 taking 204:6 274:24 talk 263:23 talked 184:15,18,19 197:21 199:7 203:5 212:15 213:9 218:1225:7 235:20 258:13 talking 185:16 186:24 191:4 192:2 199:15- 236:20,23 256:16 256:18 261:7 TAT 249:20 TBA 221:1 team 270:25 . tell 183:17 207:1 210:3 220:15 - telling 260:17 269:15 tells 185:10 ten 185:4 tenant 235:19, tenants 206:4 238:15 tended 199:17` terms 230:11235:X 235:1 L14 238:16- 240:11258:1°. 267:4,16-269AW. testified�183:%K Thank 231:3,5== theater178:16,19 179:23 180:21,231..: 184:13,14,15,21 185:13,17,23 195:8 195:22,23 198:9,13 --199:7,8,14,20- 200:5,14 201:9,11 201:11,16 202:15 202:17,22 203:2 204:9 205:9,13,22 206:1212:5 219:9 220:18 221:2' 222:1 223:19 224:12 225:11 226:9 227:4,22,23 228:15,19,21,25 229:23 235:16,17 237:14,15 241:6,9 245:23 248:21 250:10 251:7,13 261:17,18 264:7,22 270:19 theaters 185:5 203:2 203:8 225:5 264:11,13 their 185:10,25 209:9 212:9 215:23 220:18= 231:14 238:12 252:7,7 260:1 264:14 272:23,23 275:22 280:3 theme 179:16 225:17 225:18 230:11 240:11 257:20- 261:2 theming 230:9 237:20 themselves 238:17 thing 188:7197:8 208:9 212:10 234:6 247:20 266:11 things 212:12 219:9' 223:21230:10, 232:3,22 245:6 264:11269:23 think 184:5 185:8 186:7 187:8,15,16- 188:12,22 189:23 190:21 195:13 206:12,17 207:25 209:7,7,17 210:19 210:22 215:1 216:1220:6,19,21 230:21236:19 238:3 242:7 243:T- 248:1256:9,12,20 258:15 260:10,20 262:13,22 266:14 .279:7,10 thinking 207:24 228:20 234:10' 280:8 third 208:21 though 209:6,18 230:22 246:6,6,19 249:7 250:6 265:1- 268:5 275:23 thought 185:9186:9 187:21 190:25 191:1 195:2 201:18 205:3 239:23 252:8 276:9 thoughts 204:6 three 186:6 208:3,6 249:11 254:3,4 265:10 three -sided 197:11 244:25 three-story 203:4- 244:16 through 175:12 176:12190:22- 203:12 207:18. 208:3,3 225:7 230:9,12,14 235:24- 236:2 246:17 254:24 264:& 268:11270:Z' - 272:24 279:2' till 187:5 188:4,19 189:9 time 181:20182:13' 184:22 187:4,5,17- 188:3,19194:5 195:12197:10 201:18 203:3 205:9 207:22;24- 208:22 210:19, 211:25 212:15 213:21216:16 219:3 220:7 225:6-- 234:6 235:191 - 236:20 240:10 243:8 251:11 259:5 260:20,25 262:10,18 268:3;5 269:25 270:8,25 times 230:15 264:10- timing 195:18 tire 213:5 215:24 title 215:3 218:13,14 today 187:5 188:4,19 189:9 191:16- - 216:15 239:10 266:3,10 278:4- together 270:17 told 183:22194:5 top 267:18_ total 222:17 237:5 247:16,16 Totally 238:16 totals 244:21 towards 204:12 228:19 254:22%, 255:21256:2 262:5 264:6 track 205:3 traffic 196:22,24 Train 249:23 transcript 278:10,15 279:19 trees 208:8 truck 202:25 23 1: 10 truth 183:18,18 try 190:6 203:12,12- 206:2 213:19. 250:21 trying 194:6 201:10 202:17 204:7 220:22 235:12 237:2 238:10,12 265:25 266:4, 267:3 268:4 269:18 273:6 274:11 Tu 249:23 tuchman 177:4 278:13 turnaround 181:24 256:17 264:10 turning 221:21,21- Tustin 176:23183:2. two 195:8 197:14 . 208:3,6 209:3 . 213:3 237:4,191 244:10 245:6 246:7,19,20.249:11 265:7 269:11 270:9 two-sided 244:25 two-story 180:13 205:10,10 222:4,6, 222:10,11,15,22 223:8 225:10 237:1,3 246:2,7 type 238:15 275:1& types 237:19 Typically 275:23- uh 186:22 Uh-huh 208:5= 277:18 uncomfortable; 245:11 under 184:10 278:20 280:25 underneath' 202:2Z. 202:25 218:12' 227:22 228:21.. 235:17 understand 200:5 260:8 unidentified 210:15 unique 195:3 206:24= 212:14,17 213:16 214:2 225:13 237:18 260:2,6- 269:20 units 185:8 unknown 235:19 until 189:7196:3 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - -- Page 293' 216:13,15,16,18_ 240:10 unwise 189:6 ups 237:20 upscale 252:12 up-to-date 263:4 use 184:13 194:6 198:12 207:19,19 213:6 222:22 231:10 267:22 275:6 used 178:11 194:10 210:20,25 250:8 278:22 user 188:10 222:11 224:13 235:23 241:7 users 179:13,23 188:6 189:18 202:25 205:10 206:2,2 212:5 219:2 220:6,19,22 222:3,7,9,10,15,21. 223:8,9,11225:10, 229:24 usually 185:197 189:12 220:19 231:1274:7;7 vague 220:19 vaguely 210:24 value 187:2 variation 203:17 various 188:6,6 vein 267:16 Veregge 273:15 version 205:2 versus 222:10 227:23 237:1 vertical 237:3 very 184:12 196:13 201:19 209:13 218:25 222:7 226:24 233:9 235:25 245:10,11 245:16 248:23,25 251:9 254:2 videotapes 277:10,12 view 180:8 181:8,10 181:12,14,18 199:18,21,22 201:11,12 202:19 203:6 204:10 233:10,14 244:6 254:21255:20 256:14,16 257:15 262:18 viewpoint 260:1 village 181:18 206:5 255:2 256:23 257:20 259:2 262:9,11 264:20 268:2 villages 237:21 268:2 visibility 199:11 200:14 visible 202:21 219:14 vision 264:14 Volume 175:9 176:8 176:18 279:7 vs 175:8 176:7 V-e-r-a-g-g-e 273:15 waiting 280:13 walk 264:21 walling 230:13 walkway 262:20 wall 245:11 259:22 walls 259:17 want 185:23,24 186:1,25 188:10 189:1 190:6,22 192:3 197:11 206:23 212:17 214:5 221:3,19 222:12 225:3 230:16 233:2 250:14 252:8 259:25 260:19 265:7 269:23 270:5 279:19,20 wanted 185:4 195:2 196:20,22,23 203:6 205:18 206:22 213:19 216:12 222:11 230:16,16 234:8,10 246:10 249:4 260:20 269:19 271:9 wants 280:13 Ward 178:13,15 . Wards 193:24 194:25 195:8 . 198:9 199:7 201:16 202:14 204:14 213:2,4 215:22 219:10,10 220:18 221:1 222:2 226:10 229:2 235:21 WAREHOUSE 175:5 176:4,19 wasn't 212:1,13,18 WATSON 177:9 192:21 214:5 221:3 227:25 236:7 242:22 248:11 254:3 257:4,24 265:7 266:17 278:8 279:5,16,19 280:1 280:21 way 185:7 189:20 191:16 192:6 193:9,13 200:2 205:14 220:6 229:21 232:21 246:8 275:24 ways 244:1 week 189:13,13,14 189:15 weeks 208:4,6 230:18 weird 192:5 well 185:7 186:21 194:2 196:19 197:3 198:2 199:13,24 216:20 219:1 220:4 238:20 239:17,20 240:12 246:16 249:18 259:4 262:10 263:7 272:10 276:14 well-defined 235:8 went 194:11 205:4 205:14,15 206:13 211:13,14 219:7 '230:14 weren't 201:17 209:6 238:15 248:23 260:5 265:24 west 177:10 213:5,8 215:19 western 180:15 228:14 235:4,7,12 237:8 241:1,4 we'll 190:10 191:8 192:9,19 194:14 198:22 200:25 202:4 203:22 204:19 209:20 214:8,24 218:23 221:6,7 222:23 224:1,16 226:14 227:9 228:4 229:4 231:18 232:9 233:18 242:9 243:11,11--247:1,1 251:21 254:7,10 258:3,17 263:24 265:9,11 278:9,9 280:8 we're 187:8 189:4,22 200:24 207:13 212:21 214:7,18 217:8 221:6 223:8 223:19 225:6 227:21 229:22 230:22 233:5,9 234:12,24 235:7,12 236:15,16,16 237:2 237:16 238:11 241:1,3,3,4 247:21 FRANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 248:1 253:2 254:1 257:3,3,6 264:8 268:4,16,12 269:2 269:18 270:3 274:9 276:20,20 we've 186:24 187:15 196:6 197:10 214:17 215:3 221:18,25 222:3 224:11 225:7 227:20 232:7 235:2,2,15 237:8 237:11,11,11 241:6 243:6 244:5,8 261:7 268:24 269:13 272:6 273:5,8,25 whatnot 213:24 what -if 274:10 what -ifs 275:16 while 199:19 whited -out 194:12 Whitman -Breed 272:1 whole 189:21 194:2 194:2,6 238:21 253:2 254:1 wholesale 215:18 willing 235:21 Wilshire 177:5 windey 235:1 winding 180:11 235:1,10 254:24 windows 206:3,4 winter196:11,12 witness 183:6 190:18 192:2,5 236:15 241:25 246:25 250:16,18,23 254.9 254:19 258:2 262:3 264:5 266:24 267:16 269:1 278:17 279:1,4,10,14,17 279:25 280:5,7,12 280:20 wonderful 266:14 wondering 260:16 Wood 176:20 word 216:17 work 187:2 188:2 204:10 209:10 210:9 216:24 234:11 249:18,21 253:7 263:14,19,22 269:18 workable 246:24 working 186:18 188:18,19 193:16 222:9 233:15 241:8 works 185:7 world 274:15,16 wow 212:2 written 208:19 wrong 216:17 217:24,24 233:2 243:6 X 178:1,6 179:1,3 180:1,3 181:1,3 182:1,3 yeah 184:15 185:16 189:12 192:4,7 193:15 196:10 207:12 214:20 221:4 228:1233:3 244:15 252:14 253:4,17,21 257:5 265:9 266:12 267:9 272:18 273:2,5 280:2,10 year 207:4 yesterday 184:5 #0110180:8 OOCCO6309175:8 176:7 0041180:6 232:19 0110 232:17 233:7 1 175:12 176:11 179:18 200:4 208:2 227:19 244:11 279:7 115100180:7,8,10,11 1/5/2000 233:7 1:55 280:23 10175:12 176:12 244:11 268:22 273:20 10,000 179:19 227:1 10:25175:23 176:23 183:1 110 223:19 12th 238:6 12/13/99179:16 224:25 12/14/99181:9 12/16/99179:19,20 12/2/99179:11 221:17 12/22/99179:22 12/27/99179:24 120 223:20 120,000 227:23 235:18 241:7 Page 2-94 13 197:15 14 245:12 254:11 263:18 15 268:22 15101 176:22 16 201:21 16th 226:15 227:18 160 178:9,11 190:11 190:12,15,18 191:8 191:12 192:13 207:17 216:7,8 279:24 161 178:10 191:9,13 191:14,21 192:12 210:24 162 178:12 192:21 192:22,25 193:4,5 193:20 194:1 195:13,15,18,19,25 207:17 163178:14 192:20 194:14,18,22 195:11,18,19,25 196:14,18 198:8,18 208:3 164178:16 198:22 198:25 199:4,5 200:5 165178:17 200:25 201:3,7,8 166178:19 202:4,7 202:12 203:18 167178:20 203:22 203:25 204:5 205:3,4,4 207:18 208:3 168178:22 204:19 204:22 205:2 206:14 210:12,13 211:1,3,20 212:6 214:20,21,22 215:1 215:16 225:3 169178:23 209:21 209:24 210:4,11,15 210:25 211:6,8 225:7 17 241:19 17th 187:5 170178:25 214:8,11 215:17 225:7 171 179:7 215:6,10 215:15,16 216:7,8 217:12,20 218:2 219:4,5 172179:8 217:4 218:19,24,24,25 220:2,11,16,20 173 179:9 219:17,20 219:24,25 220:24 221:22 174 179:11221:7,11 222:22 223:7,18,19 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 RANK CODA, VOL.2, 08.25.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 224:10 175179:12 222.23 223:2,6,7,18 224:10 175-280175:9176:9 176179:14 224:2,5,9 224:10 225:7 177179:15 224:16 224:19,25 225:7 226:7 178 179:17 225:24 226:2,6,7,25 227:6 179179:18 226:15 226:19 227:7,18,23 18186:9,9 233:1 245:13 . 180179:20 227:10 227:13,19 241:15 181 179:21 228:4,8 . 229:1,21 182179:23 229:4,5,9 229:21232:5 233:1 183178:3 180:6 231:19,22 232:4,5 232:19 233:1,9 184180:8 232:10,13 233:2,5 234:3 . 185180:9 233:19,22 234:3 186 180:11234:14 234:18,22,24 236:15 187180:12 232:25 236:9,12,15 188180:14 240:14 240:16,20,24,25 189180:16 241:18 241:22,25 242:21 242:22 19 263:14 275:25 278:25 279:24 190178:9 180:17 242:10,14,21,23 244:10 245:21,25 247:16 248:2,8 249:1,12 2573 191 178:10180:18 243:13,17 244:18' 245:21247.15". 250:7,87 192178:12180:20= 247:2,6,10 249:12 193 180:21 248:10 248:16 250:8,14 265:4 270:11 271:5 194178:14180:23 250:14,19 251:1,5 251:6 270:11 195181:6 251:22,25 280:2 1% 181:7 252:19,22 253:3 197 181:8 254:1,10 254:16 268:11 270:1 198178:16181:10 255:10,14 199181:12 256:4,9 1998 255:19 1999 226:15 227:18 254:11 2 179:20 197:24,24 227:17,19 2/17/00180:16 2/7/00180:15 20 268:22 276:5 200181:14 257:3,4,7 257:10 2000175:23 176:24 183:1,16 217:12,23 231:19 233:19 234:15 237:23 240:17 241:19 242:11 243:14 247:7 248:12 249:5 250:20 267:8 201 178:17181:16 258:3,6,10,11 202 178:19 181:18 258:18,21 203178:20 181:20 261:6,10 204 178:22 181:22 261:22,25 262:3 205181:23 263:24 264:2,5 206182:6 265:11,15 207182:8 266:17,18 266:21,24 208182:10 267:10 267:13,16 268:11 270:2 209178:23 182:12 269:2,6 270:1 279:2 = 21st 177:10 218:2 213177:6,11 214178:25 215179:7 218179:8 219179:9 22 228:5 247:7 221 179:11 223179:12 224179:14,15 226179:17,18 227179:20 228179:21 229179:23 231 180:6 232180:8 233 180:9 234180:11 236180:12 240180:14 241 180:16 242180:17 243180:18 247180:20 248180:21 25175:23 176:24 183:1217:12 25th 217:23 25,000 222:3 251 180:23 181:6 252181:7 254181:8 255181:10 256181:12 257181:14 258181:16,18 26 277:4 261181:20 262181:22 264181:23 265 182:6 266182:8 267182:10 - 269182:12 27183:16 188:19 229:6 277:10 279:9 27th 189:9 28 277:24 28th 210:6 2825176:22 29 278:6 3/22/00180:20 3/8/00180:17,19 30 278:14 30th 177:5 31248:12 249:5 250:20 31st 253:11,12 3435177:5 35,000 227:8 35-foot 245:13 37,250 205:25 385-8000177:6 4 272:8 40-foot 245:15 405 180:8 181:12 199:18,22,23 200:14 207:11 233:10,14 256:15 256:15 262:18 5 201:22,23 231:19 233:19 234:15 237:23 280:1 5A 197:23,23 5B 197:25 198:11 5,000 210:14 6 272:14 279:25 633177:10 7 240:17 272:16 279:1,2,25 7/28/99178:24 7/31/00180:22,24 7500 244:21 8180:18 242:11 243:14,14 273:3 8,000 244:21245:1 896.2400177:11. 9/23 217:20 218:3 9/23/99 217:22 90,000 222:1 227:22 90010177:6 90071-2040177:10 97 247:17 99192:17196:9,12 207:6 210:6 217:10,11228:5- 229:6 253:11,12 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - - Page 295 01VfiE LL ic'! 'ORPORATF '«ICES 3090 3rstai S uwte 100 Casta Mesa. LA. 92626 714 432.1711 Los ANGEEEs 445 S. Figueroa Suite 2700 Los Angeiet CA Bon 310.615.08711 September 15, 2000 ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS & DOCUMENT DEPOSITORY P. 800.649.8787 F. 800.801.9148 www.jilio.com JAYNA MORGAN c/o EDAW 17875 Von Karman Avenue, #400 Irvine, CA 92614 RE: BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY vs. HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES Dear Ms. Morgan, Enclosed is the original of your deposition. Please read it; make any corrections or changes by putting a single line through the words to be corrected in ink and inserting any changes directly above. PLEASE INITIAL EACH CHANGE. After reading and correcting your deposition, please do one of the following: Sign your deposition before any Notary Public in his/her presence. _XX_ Read and sign your deposition under Penalty of Perjury. Then send your transcript to Mr. Cohen. INL1N0 E.413 ; 225'N -asanalay Lane Suite 2W- San 3emaraina. is 32408 Q09 985 OEPO Your immediate attention to this matter will be greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, you should contact your counsel. Very truly yours, Z7 ,Julie Bell Jilio & Associates cc: Loren N.. Cohen Alan J. Watson JB/jd SAN DIEGO 402 W Broadway. 4th Floor San Oiego. CA 92191 619 299.0EP0 V ERITEXT A ven;ext Company J3UqL]AYNA MORGAN, VOL-2, 08.30.00 BU LINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF -THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 3 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 4 LOREN N. COHEN, ESQ. 5 LAW OFFICES OF 6 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY, ) 5 TUCHMAN & ASSOCIATES 3435 Wilshire Boulevard 7 Plaintiff, ) 6 30th Floor Los Angeles, California 90010 8 vs. )Case No. 00 CC 06309 7 215 385-8000 9 )Volume If HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES,) 8 9 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: LLC, et al., ) 10 ALAN J. WATSON, ESQ. 10 ) LAW OFFICES OF 11 HOLLAND & KNIGHT, LLP Defendants. ) 633 West Fifth Street 11 ) 12 Twenty -First Floor 12 Los Angeles, California 90071-2040 13 13 213 896-2400 14 14 15 DEPOSITION OF 15 16 JAYNA MORGAN 16 17 WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 30, 2000, 9:35 A.M. 17 18 18 19 19 20 20 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 1 24 25 25 110 112 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA I INDEX 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 3 3 Examination By: Page 4 5 5 6 MR. COHEN — 114 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY, ) 7 6 ) 8 EXHIBITS 9 Page Plaintiff, ) 10 Plaintin Description Marked 7 ) 11 216 Meeting Minutes of April 13, 2000 114 vs. )Case No. 00 CC 06309 217 Fax cover sheet with six pages dated 4-26 121 8 )Volume II 12 218 Planning Division Instructions for 126 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES,) 13 Completing Environmental Assessment Form 219 Fax cover sheet with 4-13-00 Meeting Minutes 128 9 LLC, et al., ) 220 Two -page document dated 2-9-00 to 129 14 Scott Dinovitz 10 Defendants. ) 221 Fax cover sheet dated 2-7-00 with 2-1-00 131 15 MLettteg dated 22- 222t-1-1.00 136 11 16 223 5 fax cover sheets & 1-21.00 Meeting Minutes 138 12 224 Fax cover dated 1-25 with handwritten pages 139 13 17 225 Fax cover with Chapter 233-Signs 139 226 Letter dated 12-7-99 to Scott Dinovitz 140 14 _ 18 227 Fax cover dated 10-19-99 to Mr. Bartetto 141 15 The deposition of JAYNA MORGAN, taken on 228 Letter dated 9-15-99 with Attachment A 142 16 behalf of Plaintiff at 17875 Von Karman Avenue, Suite 400, 19 229 Fax cover with 7-23-98 Meeting Minutes 152 17 Irvine, California, commencing at 9:35 a.m., Wednesday, 230 Fax cover & 4-13-00 Meeting Minutes with 153 18 August 30, 2000, before Mary I— Loaiza, CSR # 7261; RPR. 70 231 handwritten dated 4--110-00 with Newspaper Article 155. 19- 21 232 Letter dated 3-16-00 158 20 233 Memo dated 9-23-99 to Jayna Morgan 162 21 22 234 Letter dated 8-20-99 from Woodland Construction 163 22 235 Fax cover dated 1-28-99 & Letter dated 11-20.98 165 23 236 Letter dated 11-22-99 from City of 167 23 Huntington Beams 24 24 237 Letter dated 12-10-98 to Michael Lasley 168 25 25 111 113 1 (Pages 110 to 113) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 30, 2000, 9:35 A.M. 1 2 IRVINE, CALIFORNIA 2 3 3 4 JAYNA MORGAN, 4 5 called as a witness by and on behalf of the Plaintiff, and 5 6 having been first duly swom by the Certified Shorthand 6 7 Reporter, was examined and testified as follows: 7 8 EXAMINATION 8 9 Q. BY MR. COHEN: Can you state and spell 9 10 your name for the record. 10 11 A. Jayna Morgan,J A Y N A M O R G A N. 11 12 Q. This is the continuation of your deposition 12 13 from August 7, 2000. And we're going to just continue 13 14 where we left off. And we were discussing the Meeting 14 15 Minutes of April 13, 2000. 15 16 Let's go off the record for a second. 16 17 (Discussion was held.) 17 18 MR. COHEN: So I'd like to mark for identification 18 19 the Meeting Minutes of April 13, 2000. 19 20 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 216 was marked for 20 21 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 21 22 of which is attached hereto.) 22 23 Q. BY MR. COHEN: Ms. Morgan, do you 23 24 recognize Exhibit 216? 24 25 A. Yes, I do. 25 114 l Q. And what is it? 1 2 A. It's a copy of the meeting minutes prepared 2 3 by myself and Alia Hokuki of EDAW. 3 4 Q. Were you present at that meeting? 4 5 A. I was. 5 6 Q. And what was discussed at that meeting? 6 7 A. Basically Jane James, the project planner, 7 8 gave an overview of kind of the status of the Specific 8 9 Plan. It had recently just been submitted to city staff 9 10 for their review. And at that point Howard Zelefsky took t0 l 1 over the meeting and started talking about the details of 11 12 the schedule, the project schedule, and how we could get to 12 13 Planning Commission a city council bearing for the 13 14 project. There were also other departments present at the 14 15 meeting. -- 15 16 The purpose of the meeting was for them to express 16 17 any concerns that they had about the document while the 17 18 applicants were present at the meeting. 18 19 Q. And the applicants being? 19 20 A. Ezralow. 20 21 Q. Was Burlington Coat Factory at the meeting? 21 22 A. Specifically what I recall being discussed 22 23 was the need to put in alternative site plans that would 23 24 include Burlington Coat Factory. 24 25 Q. I see. And who brought that subject up, do 25 115 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL. 2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER you remember? A. I don't remember, no. I'm sorry. Q. Would it have been Jane James? Would it have been somebody from the city that was requesting alternative site plans? A. I can't remember. It would have either been the city or it could have been Ezralow suggesting that they needed to include an alternative site plans. But I can't remember who specifically did bring that issue up. Q. At the January 21, 2000 meeting, and that's Exhibit 154, 1 will show it to you. I have a copy. Strike that. Was Montgomery Wards involved in these discussions, in these meetings? A. I was not present at the January 21st, 2000 meeting. But at the April 20th, 2000 meeting there was also some discussion about the remodeling threshold for Montgomery Wards in terms of what measures would be included in the Specific Plan that would require some of the major tenants, specifically Montgomery Wards, to remodel their architectural facade. Q. Okay. But was anybody present from Montgomery Wards at that time? A. Ob, no. Nobody was present Q. On the April 13, 2000 Meeting Minutes, 116 there is a bulletin at the very bottom of the Page 1. It says, "A memo will be sent to City Council with Howard Zelefsky's signature, anticipating that only one Planning Commission public hearing will be necessary for the approval of the document." Whose comments were those, do you know? A. I believe that was a discussion between Howard and Jane James. Howard directing James to prepare a memo to the City Council with his signature, for his signature. Q. And what would the memo say? A. I think it was just outlining the schedule, the upcoming schedule for the Specific Plan. And basically my recollection of the conversation was that because there had been several Planning Commission, prior Planning Commission workshops on the Specific Plan where alot of the details of the Specific Plan were discussed with the Planning Commission, that staff believed that it was only going to require one public bearing. Q. Okay. Is that common, that only one planning hearing would take place for a project of this size? A. It really depends on the jurisdiction. It would be uncommon had there not been prior Planning Commission workshops. But I think because the project had 117- 2 (Pages 114 to 117) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 AYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 SUMMNGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 been seen by Macerich, when Macerich was the prior 1 2 applicant and the Planning Commission had seen the Specific 2 3 Plan previously and had had hearings and workshops, I think 3 4 that that was the rational for why only one hearing would 4 5 be necessary. 5 6 So in light of the prior workshops and hearings 6 7 that had occurred already, it's not unreasonable or 7 8 uncommon that only one hearing would be necessary. 8 9 Q. And at those workshops there were no 9 10 representatives from Montgomery Wards; is that correct? 10 1 I A. I was not present at the workshops for this 11 12 project so I couldn't comment on that, if there were. 12 13 Q. Who was present at those workshops? Are 13 14 the workshops different than the meetings? 14 15 A. Correct. Yes. The workshops are different 15 16 from the staff meetings. The meeting minutes are just with 16 17 city staff and the workshops are actually with the Planning 17 18 Commission. I believe it's a publicly noticed meeting, but 18 19 it's not a public hearing. 19 20 Q. Do you know how many workshops there were 20 21 prior to the adoption of SP 13 regarding this development? 21 22 A. With Ezralow as the applicant? 22 23 Q. With Ezralow. 23 24 A. I want to say there was three. But I'm not 24 25 sure. 25 118 1 Q. Do you remember the dates approximately? 1 2 A. No. I couldn't tell you what the dates 2 3 were. I could look them up and get them to you. 3 4 Q. Where would you look for those dates? 4 5 A. In our correspondence files. 5 6 Q. But you gave me the correspondence file so 6 7 we're going to go through it today. So maybe we can figure 7 8 that out. 8 9 A. Yes. 9 10 Q. Was anyone from EDAW present at these 10 I workshops? 11 12 A. No. 12 13 Q. Do you know who was present at those 13 14 workshops? 14 15 A. I believe Jane James was present, Scott 15 16 Dinovitz from Ezralow was present; -and possibly other city 16 17 staff♦ PbbHc Works' maybe representatives and possibly 17 18 Howard Zelefsky. 18 19 Q. Did you ever receive the notice of these 19 20 workshops from the city? If the city was going to notice 20 21 these workshops, did you ever receive a copy of the notice? 21 22 A. I can't recall if I received a copy of the 22 23 notice for the workshops. I know we did receive notices of 23 24 the hearings. 24 25 Q. Do you know if any Burlington 25 119 representatives were present at those workshops? A. No, I don't. Q. Do you remember what was discussed regarding the Montgomery Wards building at the April 13, 2000 meeting? A. Again, I believe what was discussed with respect to Wards was where in the Specific Plan did it contain standards or measures that would require Montgomery Wards to remodel their architectural facades. The city wanted to Include some type of threshold measures so that if Montgomery Wards came in for a request to some type of permit from the city, that there would be a threshold that would require that their architectural facade was upgraded to be consistent with the rest of the center. Q. And that would be the SP 13 guidelines? A. Cor recL Q. The specific zoning guidelines for that center? A. Correct. Q. Was condemnution (sic) ever discussed in relation to Montgomery Wards or the Burlington leasehold in any of the meetings that you were attending to? A. No. Q. Did Ezralow or the city ever discuss what 120 would happen to Burlington should they develop the mall without Burlington? Was anything ever discussed regarding what's going to happen to Burlington? A. Not that I can recall, no. Q. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 217 for identification a seven -page document and the fax cover sheet is dated April 26. And it's to Scott Dinovitz. Ms. Morgan, do you recognize this document? (Plaintiff's Exhibit 217 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. Yes. Q. What is that? A. It is a fax transmittal to Scott Dinovitz of Ezralow from Alia Hokuld of EDAW. And it is regarding directions from OCTA. Q. Okay. And what is that in regard to? Why did he need directions? A. We were having a meeting with OCTA to discuss locations of bus stops. Q. Was any city officials present at that meeting? A. I believe Terry Elliot from Public Works was present at the meeting. Q. And do you know when this meeting took 121 3 (Pages 118 to 121) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - l place? 1 2 A. I can't remember when it took place. 2 3 Again, I think that I can get the date from our 3 4 correspondence files. The other part of the fax 4 5 transmittal was just a sample of the public facilities 5 6 section from the McDonnell Center Business Park Specific 6 7 Man that Scott Dinovitz had requested a copy of. And EDAW 7 8 had prepared that document: So we were forwarding a copy 8 9 of that section of the Specific Plan for his review. 9 to Q. Now, would this meeting be considered a 10 11 workshop that you were talking about before? 11 12 A. With OCTA, no. Actually, the meeting was 12 13 brought up at the April 13th, 2000 meeting. And I believe 13 14 one of the action items was for EDAW to set up a meeting 14 15 with OCTA to discuss the issue of bus stops along Edinger. 15 16 And this issue was raised by Public Works at the April 16 17 13th, 2000 meeting. So it was one of the tasks that EDAW 17 18 was given as a follow-up to this April 13, 2000 meeting 18 19 with city staff. 19 20 Q. There is also a note bulletin on the April 20 21 13, 2000 Meeting Minutes. 21 22 A. Yes. 22 23 Q. It's at the middle of the page and it 23 24 regards the environmental assessment. And it says, "At the 24 25 site plan level a Mitigated Negative Declaration will be 25 122 1 prepared." 1 2 Has that been prepared yet, do you know? 2 3 A. No, it has not. 3 4 Q. Has EDAW, since the time of your previous 4 5 deposition, August 7, has EDAW done any work regarding this 5 6 project? 6 7 A. No. 7 8 Q. Have you spoken to anyone regarding this 8 9 project? 9 10 A. No. 10 11 Q. Do you anticipate doing any further work 11 12 regarding this project? 12 13 A. It we were requested to assist with the 13 14 further environmental review, it and when a final site plan 14 15 is prepared, I would guess that we: would — we still have 15 16 budgeted fee left to perform tasks. 16 17 Q: And that was part of the initial, I guess, 17 18 what, $7,000 — 18 19 A. I think it was actually a subsequent add 19 20 service for the environmental documentation. 20 21 Q. Do you know if the site plan, the final 21 22 site plan has been completed? 22 23 A. No, I do not. 23 24 Q. Have you spoken to anyone regarding whether 24 25 the site plan has been completed? 25 123 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 - BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. No, I have not. Actually I have had one conversation with Herb Fauland of the city regarding another project I was working on for him. And in our conversation I had asked if the drive-thru fast food was approved by the City Council because I believe that City Council meeting had occurred since my prior deposition. And so he had left me a voice mail message indicating that it had been approved by City Council. And that's the only conversation that I've had since my prior deposition. Q. So you haven't spoken to anyone else from the city other than Herb Fauland? A. Other than Herb Fauland, correct. Q. One of the bottom bulletins on Page 2 of the April 13, 2000 Meeting Minutes says, "Scott Dinovitz will revise a Specific Plan and also include a third plan showing Burlington Coat Factory." I'd like you to take some time to think about what events at that meeting took place that actually, you know, surrounded this bulletin, this bulletin point. Like who brought it up? What was actually discussed regarding Burlington? . A. I want to say Scott Dinovitz himself brought this up, but I can't be sure if It was Scott or if it was the city that had. I know there were alot of 124 discussions by Howard Zelefsky as to wanting to keep the document, the Specific Plan document flexible enough to allow for changes so that, you know, once a site plan was nailed down and brought forth and finally approved, that it wouldn't require a major rewrite of the Specific Plan zoning document. So I believe that Howard was encouraging slot of alternatives, realistic alternatives in the documents so that once a site plan was nailed down, it didn't require a complete revision. But I don't remember with that specific bulletin who brought that up. Q. Do you remember what Ezralow's reaction was to Howard Zelefsky's desire or request to keep the Specific Plan flexible enough to include Burlington and I presume Montgomery Wards? A. Yes. I think they were amenable to that. With most or all of the city's requests they were pretty receptive to making the modifications to the document. Q. What about the drive-thru? A. They were wanting to keep the drive-thru. I said with most of them. I think that was probably the one stickler. MR. WATSON: Could we go off the record. MR. COHEN: Yes. (Discussion was held.) 125. 4 (Pages 122 to 125) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BUo__INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER l MR. COHEN: Back on the record. 1 2 Q: BY MR. COHEN: On Exhibit 150 to your 2 3 previous deposition you included a list; a memorandum of 3 4 items. And basically the only thing that you said you 4 5 didn't present a hard copy of was the EAW folder which 5 6 contains the final files, the EA form? 6 7 A. Correct 7 8 Q. I was wondering if you have a hard copy of 8 9 that now now that we're at your office? 9 10 A. Yes, I do. 10 11 Q. I'd like to mark for identification as 11 12 Exhibit 218_a document entitled Planning Division 12 13 Instructions for Completing Environmental Assessment Form. 13 14 And it's eight pages. It's unsigned. 14 15 Ms. Morgan, what exactly is this document? IS 16 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 218 was marked for 16 17 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 17 18 of which is attached hereto.) 18 19 A. It's actually a copy of the environmental 19 20 assessment form that was prepared in 1998 for the Macerich 20 21 Company, which was the prior owner of the mall by, EDAW. 21 22 And it was forwarded to the Ezralow Company for their 22 23 update, review and update, to reflect their proposal into 23 24 the city. 24 .25 Initially EDAW was going to prepare the update, 25 126 f but due to time constraints and Ezralow wanting to get it 1 2 in to the city, they chose to fill the form out, to 2 3 complete the form. So we provided this to them. 3 4 Q. I see. That's the update to the 4 5 environment impact report? 5 6 A. No. This is just the initial —every 6 7 project needs to provide an environmental assessment form, 7 8 which is almost like an application form for the 8 9 environmental review. And there was not an environmental 9 10 impact report prepared. 10 11 Every project that has an application into the t 1 12 city is required to complete this form. And it is 12 13 typically prepared by the appiltant 13 14 Q. That being Ezralow? 14 15 A. That being Ezralow. In the case of 15 16 Macerich, we had assisted the Macerich Company and we had 16 17 gone ahead and prepared the form for them. 17 18 Q. Okay. Let me take a look. And the city 18 l9 would then take this document and compare it to the General 19 20 Plan which did have an EIR and they would determine whether 20 21 or not another EIR would have to be made for this 21 22 particular plan, or is that too further down the road? 22 23 A. No. They would probably compare it to 23 24 their General Plan. But typically what they would do is 24 25 prepare an initial study document using that form. And 25 127 through the initial study checklist they would determine if prior Ceqa documents would cover the proposed project or if a mitigated negative declaration could be prepared or if a new environmental impact report was required. So typically the city will utilize that form to prepare what they call an initial study document. Q. I see. I'd like to marked for identification as Exhibit 219 a fax transmittal with the April 13, 2000 Meeting Minutes attached to it. And it's dated April 18. And it's to Jane James. Ms. Morgan, you are familiar with this document; is that correct? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 219 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. Yes. Q. And just briefly what is that? A. It is a fax transmittal to Jane transmitting the draft copy of the Meeting Minutes and requesting that she review the Meeting Minutes for accuracy and fax any revisions back to as. Q. Were any revisions or comments made to those Meeting Minutes? A. I can't recall. If they were, they would be in your incoming correspondence. 128 Q. Okay. A. Typically Aila Hokuki handled any revision that would come back in on meeting minutes. Q. Do you know if Ezralow made any revisions to those Meeting Minutes? A. I don't. But they were also sent a copy. It's standard that basically the project team or the attendees were all sent copies of the meeting minutes to review them for their accuracy and then forward back any changes. Q. I'd like to marked for identification as Exhibit 220 a two -page document dated February 9, 2000 to Scott Dinovitz. What is this? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 220 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. This is a correspondence to Scott letting him know that based on the January 21st team meeting EDAW was supposed to have received our requested data and maps that were needed to prepare the Specific Plan by February the 4th. And as of the writing of the letter, which was February 9, we had not received the information needed and therefore our deadline of producing a Specific Plan, a revised Specific Plan document by February the 25th would 129 5 (Pages 126 to 129) 31LIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 be pushed back dependent on when we received the 1 2 informadol. 2 3 Q. Okay. I didn't know that there was a 3 4 deadline. Who created that deadline? 4 5 A. Probably the city and Ezralow. 5 6 Q. Was that a deadline or just sort of a goal? 6 7 A. It was more of a goal. I would say an 7 8 internal goal. 8 9 Q. Who told you about that? 9 t0 A. Scott Dinovitz. 10 11 Q. And what were his comments regarding that, 11 12 that he wanted to -- 12 13 A. You know, I was not present at the January 13 14 21st meeting so I don't know what his comments were 14 15 specifically at that date. But there were several goals or 15 16 deadline dates set. And typically the comments were that 16 17 they wanted to keep the project moving forward and be able 17 18 to reach a certain time frame for hearings. 18 19 Q. Did Scott Dinovitz ever talk to you about 19 20 the litigation between Burlington and Ezralow? 20 21 A. I believe he mentioned at some point that 21 22 Ezralow was going to be sued by some of the current 22 23 owners And so that was really the extent of it was just 23 24 that they were going to be in litigation and they were 24 25 going to be sued. 25 130 1 Q. Did he make any comment that it's not going 1 2 to alter their plans? I mean did he elaborate any further? 2 3 A. No. Not really. 3 4 Q. Did it have any affect on the process of 4 5 creating the Specific Plan 13, do you know, that you know 5 6 of? 6 7 A. No. Not that I am aware of. 7 8 Q. I'd like to marked for identification as 8 9 Exhibit 221 a two -page document with a cover sheet. And 9 10 the cover sheet is to the project team. It's dated 10 11 February 7, 2000 and it's subject is meeting minutes. And 11 12 I believe it's the February 1, 2000 Meeting Minutes. 12 13 Ms. Morgan, are you familiar with this document? 13 14 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 221 was marked for 14 15 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 15 16 of which is attached hereto.) 16 17 A-. Yea 17 18 Q. Were you present at that meeting? 18 19 A. No, I was not. 19 20 Q. Was anyone from EDAW present at that 20 21 meeting? 21 22 A. Yes 22 23 Q. Who was? 23 Z4. A. Afia Hokula 24 25 Q. Did she report back to you regarding that 25 131 7AYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER meeting? A. Yes, she did. Q. Who prepared those Meeting Minutes? A. Alia did. Q. Did you help her in the preparation of those Meeting Minutes? A. I reviewed them, yes. Q. What did she tell you took place at that meeting? A. The meeting occurred at OCTA with three of their staff members and the members of city were also there, as well as Greenberg Farrow Architects, and the traffic engineers, Linscott Law & Greenspan. And basically the architects gave an overview of the proposed plan. And what they were discussing was possible elimination of one of the bus stops and also relocating possibly one of the bus stops of[ of Edinger inside the mall parking lot. And basically I believe the outcome of the meeting was that OCTA listened to the information in the proposal and the staff was going to go back and talk with some of their bosses about the possibility of entertaining this proposal. Q. How many meeting were there regarding this project? A. With OCTA, or just total meetings? 132 Q. Total meetings with the city and Ezralow. A. The ones that EDAW was present at we would have prepared the meeting minutes for them. I believe there were meetings that occurred where EDAW was not present. But I would say the total: meetings with OCTA were two meetings and then the total meetings with the city and Ezralow I believe we had four meetings Or actually no. There was two meetings with the city, I believe. Q. Okay. Well, let's just go through it. December 2, 99 I have meeting minutes for. A. Right. And that meeting was with Ezralow, but I don't believe — and the consultants but not with the city. Q. Okay. And you were present at that meeting, right? A. Yes Q. That was the initial meeting? A. The initial meeting, correct. Q. When EDAW was retained by Ezralow? A. That's correct. Q. Then the next meeting minute I have is the January 21, 2000 Meeting Minute. A. And that one I was not present at, but Alin from EDAW was present. And that was at the city of Huntington Beach with Ezralow and their architects. 133- 6 (Pages 130 to 133) )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 3AYNA MORGAN, VOL. 2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. Okay. And then we now have Exhibit 221, 1 2 which is the February 1, 2000 Meeting Minute? 2 3 A. Correct. 3 4 Q. And, again, you werea4 present at that 4 5 meeting? 5 6 A. No. And that was with OCTA. 6 7 Q. But Alia Hokuki was there? 7 8 A. Alla Hokuki was there and the city was 8 9 there as well. 9 10 Q. And then the next meeting minute I have is 10 l 1 'the April 13, 2000 Meeting Minute? 11 12 A. Correct 12 13 Q. As far as you know, were there any other 13 14 meetings or meeting minutes prepared other than the ones we 14 15 just discussed? 15 16 A. There was one subsequent meeting that Alfa 16 17 attended but no meeting minutes were prepared subsequent to 17 18 the April 13M And it probably was around the week of 18 19 April 26th with OCTA to discuss, again, the bus stop 19 20 issues. And I believe the city was present, however, there 20 21 was no meeting minutes prepared. It was a rather brief 21 22 meeting, as I recall. 22 23 Q. And is that Exhibit 217, that reflects that 23 24 meeting? 24 25 A. Yes Correct. 25 134 1 Q. So aside from all the meetings that we just 1 2 discussed there are no other meetings that you know of with 2 3 the city, EDAW, and Ezralow present? 3 4 A. Correct. 4 5 Q. But Ezralow and the city may have had 5 6 numerous meetings? 6 7 A. Yes. And I believe they did. 7 8 Q. Do you know if those were public meetings, 8 9 if they were noticed public meetings? 9 10 A. I don't know. 10 11 Q. They would be meetings in addition to the 11 12 workshops that you mentioned, correct? 12 13 A. Yes 13 14 Q. And, again, do you know if Montgomery Wards 14 15 or Burlington was present at those meetings? 15 16 A. I don't know. 16 17 Q: I'd like to marked for identification as 17 18 Exhibit 222 a letter dated February 1, 2000. And it has 18 19 two fax transmission cover sheets on it to Scott Dinovitz 19 20 on February 1. 20 21 Ms. Morgan, are you familiar with Exhibit 222? 21 22 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 222 was marked for 22 23 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 23 24 of which is attached hereto.) 24 25 A. Yes, I am. 25 135 Q. What is it? A. It is a correspondence prepared by EDAW discussing the environmental documentation that would be needed for the Specific Plan project And in essence it was a proposal for EDAW to prepare the environmental documentation. Q. Now, is that an environmental impact report, or just whatever documentation is necessary for this project? A. Whatever documentation is necessary. And at the time it was anticipated that an update to the prior environmental document prepared for the Macerich project would be utilized since the Specific Plan proposed by Ezralow was actually less intense and actually less square rootage than the prior proposal that had a mitigated negative declaration prepared. Q. What is a mitigated negative declaration? A. Basically it's a Ceqa document that is, its not an environmental impact report but it's an initial study document that proposes mitigation measures which allow findings to be made with the implementation that the mitigation measures and all impacts could be mitigated to less than significant levels Q. Is it because there was an environmenta4 impact report prepared for the General Plan that it's. 136 important to then just do a negative declaration with regard to the specific project, is that how it works? A. Partially, yes What the General Plan document was used for was a partial exemption that's allowed for under the Public Resource Code for the areas of traffic impacts and air quality impacts. Because the General Plan EIR did analyze a certain intensity for the mall development and considered traffic impacts and air quality impacts associated with that certain intensity which is a greater intensity than what was being proposed by the Specific Plan. And that General Plan EIR had identified those as significant unavoidable impacts and had adopted a statement of overriding considerations for those areas Q. I see. Did Macerich also do an EIR when they were proposing a plan for redevelopment? A. No. They did not do an EHL They did a mitigated negative declaration. It was the same type of document that was being proposed for the Ezralow project Q. I see. So when you say there was just going to be an update of a Macerich plan or report, it was their negative -- A. Mitigated Negative Declaration, correct MR. COHEN: Off the record. (Pause in proceedings.) 137 7 (Pages 134 to 137) 3ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 I Q. BY MR. CORN: I'd like to mark for I 2 identification as Exhibit 223 five fax cover sheets which '- 3 attach the January 21, 2" Meeting Minutes. 3 4 Ms. Morgan, are you familiar with that document? 4 5 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 223 was marked for 5 6 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 6 7 of which is attached hereto.) 7 8 A Yes. 8 9 Q. And is that document, those are just the 9 10 fax cover sheets of who you sent out the meeting minutes 10 11 to; is that correct? 11 12 A. Correct. And, again, it's the people that 12 13 attended the meeting, that were present at the January 21st 13 14 meeting. 14 15 Q. And is that also to list their comments or 15 16 revisions? 16 17 A. Yes. 17 18 Q. I'd like to marked for identification as 18 19 Exhibit 224 a three -page document dated January 25 and it 19 20 incorporates two pages of handwritten notes. 20 21 Are you familiar with this document? 21 22 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 224 was marked for 22 23 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 23 24 of which is attached hereto.) 24 25 A. Yes, I am. 25 138 I Q. Okay. What is it? 1 2 A. It is a copy of the transmittals to the 2 3 Ezralow Company and Greenberg Farrow sending them the 3 4 current city signed code, which was a request made at the 4 5 December 2nd meeting. 5 6 Q. Okay. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 225, I 6 7 believe -- it's a fax cover sheet which encloses Chapter 7 8 223 Signs. 8 9 And are you familiar with this document? 9 10 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 225 was marked for 10 11 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 11 12 of which is attached hereto.) 12 13 A. Yes, I am. 13 14 Q. Okay. And what is that? 14 15 A. It's the city's current sign code 15 16 transmitted by Jane James of the city of Huntington Beach. 16 17 Q. I see. And then for Exhibit 224 -- 17 18 A. We forwarded that document to the Ezralow 18 19 Company and their architects, Greenberg Farrow. 19 20 Q. And this was for them to design the signage 20 21 around the development? 21 22 A. Correct. 22 23 Q. Did the Specific Plan require them to 23 24 actually design the signs at that particular period of 24 25 time? 25 139 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER A. No. Just to include standards, typical heights and the sizes of the signs. Since a Specific Plan is also a zoning document, it needs to either incorporate by reference the existing sections of the zoning code or create its own standards. Q. And in this case did the SP 13 create its own standards or did it just adopt — A. I believe it did create its own standards but I'd have to look at the final copy of the Specific Plan to know for sure. Q. I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 226 -- well, what is this document? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 226 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. It's a December 7 correspondence to Scott Dinovitz from myself outlining the list of the items that EDAW would need to complete the Specific Plan for submittal to city stafL Q. Okay. And this was from Scott Dinovitz to you; is that correct? A. Actually it was to Scott Dinovitz from me. Q. Oh, I see. And he was to work with Ezralow's architects and other agents and consultants in order to get the information you needed to prepare the 140 Specific Plan; is that correct? A. That's correct. Q. I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 227 an October 19, 1999 transmittal. What is this document? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 227 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. This is a transmittal from myself to Richard Barretto who is with Greenberg Farrow Architects transmitting the latest copy of the Huntington Center Mall Specific Plan which was the Macerich Specific Plan that had the last set of city comments on that document. So prior to making any modifications to the document to reflect Ezralow's proposal, it was the Specific Plan as it stood when EDAW stopped working on it with the Macerich Company and the city. Q. And'do you know what Robert's title, or Richard's title at GFA is? A. I don't. Q. Like what he does there? A. I think he's an architect Q. I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 228 a letter dated September 15, 1999. And it has an Attachment A entitled Scope of Work for Completion of 141-I 8 (Pages 138 to 141) JILIO 8t ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BU*AYNA NGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 7 8 9 l0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Revisions to Huntington Crossing Specific Plan. Are you familiar with this document? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 228 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. Yes, I am. Q. And what is that? A. It's a copy of EDAW's initial proposal to the Ezralow Company for completing the revisions to the Huntington Crossings Specific Plan. Q. And it sets forth EDAW's assignment for Ezralow; is that correct? A. That's correct. Q. And this was to prepare the Specific Plan for Ezralow, correct? A. The update, yes, correct. Q. When you say the update, you mean to update the SP 12? A. Correct. The Macerich specific. Q. The Macerich plan? A. Right. Q. On Page 4 in the middle of the page, it says, "The Draft Specific Plan Update document will be prepared for review by the applicant." Who is the applicant that's referred to? 142 A. I believe it's Ezralow Company. Q. In Section 1.4, when EDAW was preparing the Specific Plan — I just want an understanding. EDAW was preparing the Specific Plan for Ezralow, correct? A. Correct. Q. And Ezralow was the applicant, correct? A. Correct. Q. And then this plan, this Specific Plan, would then be presented to the city for their approval; is that correct? A. Yes. Their review and comment and ultimately their approval. As with the Macerich plan, city staff had also made modifications to the Specific Plan document prior to it being presented to the decision makers, the city decision makers. Q. And that would be the Planning Commission and then the City Council? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And it's in Ezralow's discretion to 20 incorporate those comments or not incorporate those 21 comments; is that correct? 22 A. It's my understanding that at a certain 23 point in the process, when the document was turned offer to 24 the city, the city made their requests and changes to the 25 document and then it was up to Ezralow to state their 143 1 objections to anything that was included in the Specific 2 Plan. Which I believe one objection was the drive-thru 3 restaurants or the exclusion of drive-thru restaurants as a 4 permitted use. And so they raised that issue subsequent to 5 the Planning Commission hearing. 6 Q. Okay. You mentioned that it was turned 7 over. Ezralow turned it over to the city, the Specific 8 Plan? 9 A. Yes. They submitted it to the city. And I 10 believe in March, March or April, when we had the meeting 11 with city staff, there were discussions at that meeting 12 that a red line marked text version would be submitted to 13 the city staff so they could see the prior edits that 14 Ezralow had made to the document. And I believe at a 15 certain point a diskette copy of the document was to be 16 given to city staff so that they could make further 17 modifications. 18 Q. When you say turned over to the city, you 19 mean that it was presented to the city at that point in 20 time; is that correct? 21 A. Correct 22 Q. And who was it presented to? 23 A. I believe the planning department. And 24 typically the planning department's responsibility is to 25 insure that the document is circulated and reviewed by . 144 1 other city departments, such as Public Works and the fire 2 department, economic development. 3 Q. And that's to insure that the Specific Plan 4 is — strike that. 5 Why do they circulate it to these various 6 departments? 7 A. To get their comments and input on the 8 contents of the document. 9 Q. And then their comments or input are then, 10 they would be considered and then — 11 A. Yes. And incorporated as deemed necessary. 12 Q. And is that so when the Planning Commission 13 votes on the Specific Plan, it's in its most final and 14 complete form; is that correct? 15 A. I believe so. So that they understand that 16 it's been reviewed by all of the city departments. It's a 17 standard practice for most projects to be reviewed. 18 Q. This doesn't mean then that the applicant 19 changed? It was still Ezralow; is that correct? That the 20 entity that was the applicant for the Specific Plan was 21 still Ezralow, correct? 22 A. It's my understanding at a certain point 23 the city became the applicant for the Specific Plan, but I 24 don't know the details of that. Once the final Specific 25 Plan was submitted and after we had the April meeting, my 145 9 (Pages 142 to 145) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - involvement in the project was maybe a couple hours, you I 1 2 know, with coordination and phone calls. 2 3 Q. How did you come to this understanding? 3 4 A. I believe it was through discussions with 4 5 Jane James. 5 6 Q. When did these discussions take place? 6 7 A. Subsequent to the April, 2000 meeting, 7 8 April 13. 8 9 Q. Do you know when? 9 10 A. I don't. 10 11 Q. Was it in June? 11 12 A. It could have been in June, May or June. 12 13 Q. Did she say why the city became the 13 14 applicant? 14 15 A. No. I can't recall. She may have but I 15 16 can't remember why. 16 17 Q. Why do you think the city became the 17 18 applicant? 18 19 MR. WATSON: That calls for speculation. 19 20 MR. COHEN: I'm asking why she thinks it. You 20 21 preserve the objection. 21 22 MR. WATSON: Yes. 22 23 If we bicker, it doesn't affect you. 23 24 MR. COHEN: Unless he instructs you. 24 25 But I guess she's not your client anyway. 25 146 1 So go ahead. 1 2 THE WITNESS: Ultimately Specific Plan documents 2 3 once they are adopted are city documents. And my guess is 3 4 that because the Specific Plan ultimately would be a city 4 5 document, the city chose to be the applicant. 5 6 Q. BY MR. COHEN: In May or June, at that 6 7 point in time Specific Plan 13 had not yet been adopted by 7 8 the city; is that correct? 8 9 A. No, it had not 9 10 Q. And when you say adopted, that means voted 10 11 on by the Planning Commission and then the City Council; is 11 12 that correct? 12 13 A. That's correct 13 14 Q. And when your involvement ended in April, 14 15 2000, is that because the Specific Plan was as complete as 15 16 EDAW could make it complete? 16 17 A:. Yes, that's correct. 17 18 Q And at that point in April it was going 18 19 through the various city departments for their comments and 19 20 review; is that correct? 20 21 A. Yea 21 22 Q. And that's a standard practice for all 22 23 Specific Plan approvals; is that correct? 23 -24- A. Yes. 24 25 Q. Did you ever discuss the Burlington lawsuit 25 147 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER with Jane James? A. Yea Q. When? A. I believe after I was subpoenaed Q. For this deposition; is that correct? A. Yea Q. And what did you discuss? A. Just the fact that I had been subpoenaed for the deposition. I may have asked if she had been subpoenaed as well. Q. And what did she tell you? A. No, she bad not. But she had been contacted by, I don't know if it was yourself but Burlington's attorney& Q. What did Jane James say to you when you were subpoenaed? A. We just discussed she hadn't been subpoenaed and that she bad been questioned by Burlington's attorneys and they hadn't identified themselves as attorneys. They had just inquired and bad questions about the process Q. Did you ever see a June 5 memo, June 5, 2000 memo from someone from the city regarding the city becoming the applicant? A. No, I did not 148 Q. Do you know anything about that memo? A. No, I do not. Q. In preparation for your deposition for August 7 and today, did you speak with anybody else from Ezralow's attorneys or anybody from the city? A. No. Q. Did you ever speak with Ezralow's attorneys? A. Prior to the first deposition. Q. When was that? A. I don't remember the date but it was prior to my first deposition. Probably a few days prior to the first deposition. I think I had indicated in the first deposition when it was. Q. Who did you speak to? A. Marls — MR. WATSON: Shipaow, S H I P A O W. Q. BY MR. COHEN: Did you discuss any documentation at that meeting? A. We didn't have a meeting. I just spoke with him over the telephone and I was questioning the Subpoena reference to producing documents. And I didn't know if I needed to produce hard copies and computer versions or one or the other. And then I asked if he thought it was necessary for me to meet with him prior to 149 -' 10 (Pages 146 to 149) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 the deposition, and he said no. 1 2 Q. Did he tell you to withhold any 2 3 documentation from the production today or actually August 3 4 7? 4 5 A. No. 5 6 Q. And you did present all documentation that 6 7 you have in response to those document demands? That's 7 8 correct? 8 9 A. Yes, that's correct 9 t0 Q. To your knowledge would Montgomery Wards 10 l 1 also have to be an applicant for the SP 13, since they are 11 t2 a property owner? 12 13 A I know that had been discussed at the 13 14 Macerich meetings, when Macerich was the applicant. But to 14 15 my knowledge I'm not sure of the city procedures and 15 16 requirements for obtaining signatures of property owners 16 17 for applications. t7 18 Q. Did EDAW give any consultation to Ezralow 18 19 regarding whether Montgomery Ward should be part of the SP 19 20 13? 20 21 A. No. 21 22 Q. Would it have been part of EDAW's scope or 22 23 assignment to provide such consultation if it was 23 24 necessary? 24 25 A. Typically we would not provide that type of 25 150 1 consultation. 1 2 Q. Why not? 2 3 A. Just that we're not versed and experienced, 3 4 personally I'm not experienced in knowing who needs to be 4 5 an applicant or provide signatures on an application form 5 6 to meet whatever laws and requirements that the city has. 6 7 And my background is more in preparing Specific Plan 7 8 documents and providing Ceqa documentation. 8 9 Q. Do you know what consultants Ezralow had 9 10 that would have provided such information, if Montgomery t0 11 Wards was necessary to be part of the application? Would 11 12 that just be their attorneys? 12 13 A. I would think so, yes. t3 14 Q. And it's your testimony that typically the 14 15 city becomes — strike that. 15 16 I'd like to mark as Exhibit 229-a fax cover sheet 16 17 with Meeting Minutes of July 23, 1998 attached to it. And 17 18 the fax cover sheet is dated July 24, 1998. 18 19 Are you familiar with this document? 19 20 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 229 was marked for 20 21 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 21 22 of which is attached hereto.) 22 23 A. Yes. 23 24 Q. Okay. And what is that? 24 25 A. It is Meeting Minutes that were prepared by 25 151 EDAW documenting a meeting that occurred on July 23rd. 1998 at the city of Huntington Beach when Macerich was involved in the prior Specific Plan project. Q. And in that prior project, Burlington was specifically included in the redevelopment; is that correct? A. Yes, I believe so, they were. Q. Did Macerich ever mention that -- strike that. Are you familiar, in the work that you have done and performed for Macerich and Ezralow regarding preparing the SPs, are you familiar with Burlington's lease with the center? A. No, I am not. It may have been brought up at some of the meeting, with Macerich, but I am not familiar. Q. Was it brought up with any of the meetings with Ezralow? A. No. Not that I can recall. MR. WATSON: Could we go off the record? MR. COHEN: Yes. (Discussion was held) Q. BY MR. COHEN: I'd like you to take a look at Exhibit 152 that was previously attached to your deposition. I will show it to you. 152 Do you know if this was the plan that was ultimately adopted, the Specific Plan that was ultimately adopted by the City Council? A. No, I don't know if this was ultimately adopted or if it had modifications made to it by the Planning Commission and or City Council. Q. And I guess it would definitely have a modification regarding the drive-thrus; is that correct? A. That's correct. Q. Okay. I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 230 a fax cover sheet with an attached April 13, 2000 Meeting Minutes with some handwritten notes on it. Are you familiar with that document? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 230 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. Yes. Q. Exhibit 230? A. Yea Q. And what is it? A. It is a fax from the city of Huntington Beach from Jane dames and transmitting her comments on the Meeting Mlnutes prepared by Alia Hokuld of EDAW, the April 13, 2000 Meeting Minutes. Q. It's faint on my copy so maybe we can try 153 11 (Pages 150 to 153) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 and go over some of the handwritten notes. 1 2 It says at the top, "Attendees, Tim Greaves," and 2 3 that's crossed out, I believe. 3 4 A. Yes. 4 5 Q. And that has handwritten Ward Kinsman? 5 6 A. Correct. 6 7 Q. Who are both of those guys? 7 8 A. They are with the city fire department. 8 9 Q. And Brian Ezralow was not present at this 9 10 meeting; is that correct? 10 11 A. No. It 12 Q. He was crossed out. Now, do you know if 12 13 these changes were actually made to the final minutes? 13 14 A. Yes. 14 15 Q. I think some were and some were not. You 15 16 took a review of the document. Were all the changes made? 16 17 A. Yes. 17 18 Q. At the bottom of the April 13 Minutes on 18 19 Page 3 it says, "Jane James prepare a memo to the City 19 20 Council with Howard Zelefsky's signature detailing the 20 21 proposed schedule for the Specific Plan." 21 22 Do you know if you received a copy of that memo? 22 23 A. I don't think we did. If we did, it would 23 24 be in our incoming correspondence file. 24 25 Q. Which we're going through now? 25 154 t . A. Yes. I don't recall seeing one though. 1 2 Q. III mark for identification as Exhibit 231 2 3 a letter with an attached newspaper article. 3 4 Are you familiar with this document? 4 5 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 231 was marked for 5 6 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 6 7 of which is attached hereto.) 7 8 A. Yes. 8 9 Q. And what is it? 9 10 A. The letter is from the Ezralow Company 10 I 1 transmitting a copy of the Specific Plan in April of 2000 11 12 and the Signage Standard on disc. And also a copy of a 12 13 newspaper article regarding the, from the L.A. Times in the 13 14 Orange County business section regarding the mall's plans 14 15 for remodeling. 15 16 Q. And do you know why they sent you a copy of 16 17 this article? 17 18 A. Probably just to keep us up to speed with 18 19 what was going on in the press that the project was 19 20 receiving. 20 21 Q. The article quotes Douglas Gray. It says 21 22 that "But Gray said the current Burlington won't be 22 23 spared. There's no question that that store will come 23 24 down,' he said. The question is whether Burlington will be 24 25 part of the new development or not." 25 155 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL. 2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER Was that your understanding of how Ezralow was proceeding with the development of the project? A. Not really, I guess. Q. Okay. Why? A. Doug Gray was never really in any of the meetings that we were part of to express that opinion. And I was just proceeding based on the plans that we were receiving and the input that we got from the meetings. There was never any discussions at meetings that were quite that definitive about Burlington. Q. So you have never heard Mr. Gray make a statement like that? A. No, I have not. Q. Have you ever heard anyone from Ezralow make a statement similar to that? A. No, I have not Q. Well, the bulletin memo on the April 13, 2000 Meeting Minutes that says that Scott Dinovitz will revise a Specific Plan to include Burlington, is your recollection refreshed any as to whether it was the city's request or whether Scott Dinovitz was just going to do it? A. No. Q. If Scott Dinovitz or Ezralow was going.to include Burlington in the SP 13, why hadn t they until that point? 156 MR. WATSON: That calls for speculation. MR. COHEN: That's true. Q. BY MR. COHEN: Why do you think they hadn't until that point? A. Up until that point I think that they were developing site plans and proceeding down a certain trail with what they thought maybe would be the ultimate configuration of the mall. And at a certain point it was decided that they didn't feel comfortable enough with a certain plan to apply for a conditional use permit approval; and that the Specific Plan was therefore just going to be a zoning document And, again, as I stated previously, at the April 13 meeting Howard Zelefsky addressed the importance of making the Specific Plan document flexible and including several plans so that at the point a site plan was nailed down, the Specific Plan did not have to go back for a major modification. Q. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 232 a March 16, 2000 transmittal letter from Carlos Norvani to Alia. Are you familiar with this document. (Plaintiffs Exhibit 232 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. Yes, I'm familiar with it. 157. 12 (Pages 154 to 157) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 3AYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 Q. Whose Carlos Norvani? 2 A. He is out of the engineers with Hall & 2 3 Foreman, one of the civil engineers. 3 4 Q. Do you know if they are doing -- what work 4 5 exactly did Hall & Foreman do for Ezralow regarding this 5 6 project? 6 7 A. They basically looked at the backbone 7 8 infrastructure plans for the mall and specifically the 8 9 water system, sewer system, and storm drain system. 9 10 Basically what that system is today as it exists today, and 10 i l then with the redevelopment of the mall what the proposed 11 12 needed improvements or changes to those existing facilities 12 13 would need to be. 13 14 Q. Can you identify all the consultants that 14 15 you know of that Ezralow was working with regarding this 15 16 project? 16 17 A. Hall & Foreman was the civil engineer. The 17 18 architects were GFA. The traffic engineer. 18 19 Q. Linscott? 19 20 A. Linscott, Law & Greenspan. And -- 20 21 Q. EDAW? 21 22 A. EDAW. And the city. 22 23 Q. But the city wasn'ttheir consultant? 23 24 A. Yeah, they weren't their consultant 24 25 . Q. Anyone else that you know of? 25 158 1 A. Their attorneys. 1 2 Q. And their attorneys. Do you know if they 2 3 prepared any written work, Hall & Foreman, any design plan 3 4 or any schematics? 4 5 A. Schematic plans, or documents, written 5 6 text? 6 7 Q. What documents do you know that they 7 8 prepared? 8 9 A. Well, there is calculations that, written 9 10 calculations that are part of the infrastructure plans to 10 11 support, you know, the calculations basically or estimates 11 12 of future water demands and future storm drainage flows, 12 13 future sewer flows which would then support the sizing of 13 14 the future infrastructure plans. And so I believe there 14 15 was written documentation that would have been submitted to 15 16 the city and Ezralow along with the plans. 16 17 Q. Was it submitted to you, EDAW? 17 18 A.. If it's not in our flies, then it was not 18 19 submitted.. 19 20 Q. Would their work have been incorporated in 20 21 the Specific Plan? 21 22 A. The plans themselves were initially to be 22 23 incorporated in the Specific Plan. And I don't believe 23 24 that they were ever finalized with Public Works because 24 25 some of the modifications would still need to occur once a 25 159 final site play was nailed down. And since a site plan was not ever nailed down. at the Specific Plan level, it's my understanding that these plans needed to go through further modifications. Q. There are two basic site plans that are incorporated in SP 13, Are you familiar with those? Basically the site plan that includes Burlington and the site plan that excludes Burlington. A. okay. Q. I will show you. A. I have looked at them, but it's been a while. Q. Basically my question is in your experience, are these site plans of sufficient detail that would be required for a final site plan review, or would the site plan even need to be more detailed? Like what exactly does a site plan, for a final site plan review what does the site plan need to show? A. The final site plan review is something that is performed by city staff. So I don't feel completely comfortable saying what the level of detail would or would not be adequate, since a site plan review is something that a city staff person or people would perform. Q. And that's not the services that EDAW would provide to Ezralow; is that correct? 160 A. That's correct. Q. That would be something that the architects, Greenberg Farrow and Associates would prepare? A. The site plans, correct. And I believe that there are application forms outlining the submittal requirements for a site plan review. Q. Do you know if those application forms have been submitted? A. No, I don't. Q. And those would be called applications for final site plan review? What would be the title of that? A. Yes. It would either be conditional use permit applications or site plan review approval, site plan approval applications. Q. How long does the approval process take, do you know? A. For site plan review? Q. Yes. A. I would say three to six months. Q. Is it a quicker process than a C.U.P process? A. Yes, I believe so. Q. And in a CUP process a public hearing is required; is that correct? A. Yes. 161 13 (Pages 158 to 161) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 Q. In a site plan review process is a site 1 2 plan required, do you know? 2 3 A. I don't think one is required. But I 3 4 believe it's at the planner's discretion. If he or she 4 5 believes it warrants a hearing, I believe it can be kicked 5 6 up to the Planning Commission. 6 7 Q. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 233, this is a 7 8 memo dated September 23, '99 to Jayna Morgan. What is 8 9 this, 233? 9 10 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 233 was marked for t0 11 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 11 12 of which is attached hereto.) 12 13 A. It's just a transmittal from Ezralow 13 14 forwarding a copy of the signed contract for the Specific 14 15 Plan update. 15 16 Q. Okay. You had to name Ezralow as an 16 17 additional insured in your E & O policy? 17 18 A. Yes, I believe so. 18 19 Q. Is that common? 19 20 A. I'm not sure if it's common. I don't 20 21 typically get involved with the contracts, but I know that 21 22 in some of the contracts that I have seen we have been 22 23 asked to name cities or applicants or developers as 23 24 additional insureds So this wouldn't have been the first 24 25 request that I have seen. 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 162 Q. In the scope of work that EDAW was doing for Ezralow, what type of liability would even -- oh, strike that. I would like to mark for identification as Exhibit 234 an August 30, 1999 letter from Woodland Construction. What is that document? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 234 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. It's a letter from Scott Dinovitz' secretary, I believe, transmitting a copy of the site plan. At that time it was Site Plan No. 3. That was probably the current site plan back in August of '99. Q. Who is Woodland Construction? A. To my understanding Ws. another —I don't know if It's an entity of Ezralow, but it's another company that — Q. Is it possible they were an architectural firm like GFA? A. I don't believe so. I think that they were another company that Scott Dinovitz, another related company to Ezralow. Q. Do you know if you have this site plan this refers to? A. I don't think we do. If I did, I would 163 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER have provided it. Because typically the large-scale plans, once they are outdated and replaced by a more updated plan, we just throw them away. Q. Do you remember looking at this Conceptual Site Plan No. 3? A. No. I'm sure I did look at it in August of '99, but I can't remember what it looked like. Q. Do you think it was prepared though by GFA? A. I think it was probably prepared by GFA, yes. Q. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 235 a fax cover sheet dated January 28, 1999 with an attachment November 20, 1998 letter from the city of Huntington Beach. What is this document? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 235 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. This was a copy of the Anal city comments that were provided to Tom Jerod of Macerich on the latest version of the Huntington Center Specific Plan. Q. And that was for Macerich? A. For Macerich, correct. Q. And then you passed this along to FGF_and to Ezralow?' A. Correct. 164 1 Q. On Paragraph 5 — 2 A. On page? 3 Q. On Page 5, Paragraph 5, it talks about 4 Montgomery Wards. And it says, "Property owner 5 authorization for Montgomery Wards is still required to 6 evaluate the process phase two of the conditional use 7 permit." 8 With this in mind do you think Montgomery Wards 9 should have been part of the Specific Plan process that 10 Ezralow was preparing? 11 A. I'm not sure of the question you are 12 asking. 13 Q. Can you just explain what the city wants in 14 regard, or is referring to regarding what Montgomery Wards 15 being part of the phase two process. Can you give a little 16 explanation on that? 17 A. I believe what this paragraph is referring 18 to, and this was a. letter that was prepared by Jane James 19 to Tom Jerod, the prior project applicant, is that as part 20 of the application form for phase two of the C.U.P, there 21 were improvements being shown to Montgomery Wards and 22 therefore the property owner authorization from Montgomery 23 , Wards was required in order to move forward on that 24 application. 25 Q. And it's because work was being done on 165- 14 (Pages 162 to 165) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08:30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER I their property? 1 2 A. Property owned by them, correct. And it 2 3 indicates that If the authorization was not obtained, then 3 4 the application needed to be revised to depict improvements 4 5 on only Macerich-owned property. 5 6 Q. As SP 13 is today, it does affect 6 7 Montgomery Wards' property; is that correct? 7 8 A. I would have to review the document. I 8 9 believe there is provisions in the document if Montgomery 9 10 Wards should apply for a permit, that they would be 10 I 1 required to upgrade their architectural facades. 11 12 Q. They are not automatically required to 12 13 upgrade; as far as you know? 13 14 A. No, as far as I know. 14 15 Q. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 236 a [November 15 16 20th, 1998 letter from the city of Huntington Beach to Tom 16 17 Jerod. 17 18 What is this document -- is this the same 18 19 document? 19 20 A. Yes. I think it's a duplicate. 20 21 Q. Okay. Then I will mark for identification 2.1 22 as 236 a January 22, 1999 letter from the city of 22 23 Huntington Beach to Tom Jerod. 23 24 And what is this letter? 24 25 (Plaintiffs Exhibit 236 was marked for 25 166 1 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy 1 2 of which is attached hereto.) 2 3 A. It's a letter from Jane James of the city 3 4 attaching the city's latest comments on the Specific Plan 4 5 document dated December 11 of '98. And in the letter she 5 6 indicates that most of the comments are grammatical In- 6 7 nature. 7 8 "This version of the document does not contain the 8 9 city's complete recommendation for amortization schedule 9 10 for improvements to non -conforming structures such as 10 11 Montgomery Wards, the Tire, Lube, and Battery facility and 11 12 bank building. It has been difficult to ascertain the 12 13 valuation of these structures and thus difficult to 13 14 recommend amortization." 14 15 It also indicates city staff is awaiting 15 16 Macerich's response to their prior -November 20th,1998 16 17 comment letter, which you marked as -- 17 18 Q.. 235? 18 19 A. Correct. 19 20 Q. Do you remember if the city was allowing. 20 21 the automotive as a permitted use, the Montgomery Ward 21 22 automotive. 22 23 A. Ia the prior Specific Plan? 23 24 Q. Yes. 24 25- A. I don't know. 25 167 Q. I'd like to mark for identification as Exhibit 237 a letter dated December 10, '98 to Michael L. Lasley from Lawrence Moline. What exactly is this document? (Plaintiffs Exhibit 237 was marked for identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, a copy of which is attached hereto.) A. Mike Lasley was Macerich's architect on the prior Specific Plan and Lawrence Moline was Macerich's landscape architect- And it was just a response to the city's concern regarding parking lot tree selections, specifically the certain comments that the city had made on the landscape plan for the prior Specific Plan. Q. Okay. And then these are the two duplicates? A. Yes. MR. COHEN: Let's take a five-minute break. (Break was taken.) MR. COHEN: Back on the record. Q. BY MR. COHEN: Do you know what PBR is? A. Yes, I do. Q. What is it? A. Phillips, Brand, Reddick is another planning consulting firm. And they are located in Irvine. I started my career them. If that's the PBR you are 168 referring to, that's the PBR I know. Q. Do you know if they had any involvement in this project? A. No. I believe they did not. Although in my first deposition I mentioned that Ken Ryan, who was a principal at PBR and recently joined EDAW, has a contract to prepare the Edinger corridor study, redevelopment study. And so that would be the only connection that PBR would have had. But the contract, I believe, had not been granted while Ken Ryan was at PBR. It was just recently granted when he came to EDAW. Q. I see. And did you find out anything more about the Edinger corridor from your last deposition? A. I have not, no. Q. Do you maintain time sheets for the work that you have done on this project? A. Yes. Q. Those weren't presented to us today? A. No, they were not. Q. Those time sheets go to EDAW; is that correct? A. That's correct. And because I am an independent contractor, my invoices, my personal Invoices that I present to EDAW would provide an allocation of the amount of time that I have spent on each particular project 169 15 (Pages 166 to 169) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 so that they can an that for billing purposes. And then the other EDAW staff members that are EDAW employees maintained time sheets. Q. I see. Does it identify telephone calls and other reading of correspondence or writing of correspondence? A. No. Not on my invoices. It would just allocate the amount of time per week. And then in the invoices that we would submit to the Ezralow Company, we would identify tasks performed for that billing period, which would — sometimes if it's a conference call, it would identify a conference call, but it does not identify every telephone conversation on the invoice task summary. Also, it would identify, you know, meeting attendance, preparation of meeting minutes, and other tasks. Q. Well, did EDAW charge an hourly rate, or was it a flat fee for the work that they did? A. It was a flat fee but billed at an hourly rate. So if EDAW didn't, if our hours did not equate to the flat fee, they weren't billed. It was a not -to -exceed fee. Q. I understand. A. But it was billed on an hourly, monthly/hourly basis. 170 Q. See, the invoices often -- I don't care about how much money you made. That could be all redacted and crossed out, but alot of times invoices tend to create a nice time line of what work took place and what happened. And I was wondering if I could get a copy of both your invoices and EDAW's invoices with all the amounts crossed out, redacted. A. Okay. Q. Is that fine? A. Yes, that would be fine. Q. When do you think you could get that? A. I would think within the next three or four days. Q. Do you have them on premises? A. Yes, they are on premises. -I could request that somebody start copying them now, but I don't know if they would be done with them by the time you left. Q. How many pages do you think they are? A. Well, we started in December. I would say probably there are seven months and each invoice would be maybe two pages with back-up if we had reimbursable expenses. But since you are not concerned with the amounts and only the tasks, then it would be probably only like 15 pages of invoices with my actual invoices as well. So EDAW invoices would be about 15 pages. So I could see if there 171 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 1 is someone who could run copies. 2 Q. And then just redact it and then provide it 3 my office? 4 A. Right. 5 Q. And aside from you and Alia did anyone else 6 from EDAW work on this project? 7 A. An intern that we had, a part-time intern, 8 Khara Covington, may have spent some time on the project 9 But she's no longer with EDAW. 10 Q. What did she do? 11 A. Just, you know, faxiug and more 12 administrative tasks. 13 Q. Clerical stuff? 14 A. Clerical, yes. 15 Q. And regarding this project did you have to 16 report to someone within EDAW as to what you were doing? 17 A. Typically I provided updates to Don Smith, 18 who is the principal In charge, regarding the status of the 19 project And be — because, again, I am an independent 20 contractor, he approves my invoices for payment He signs 21 off on all my invoices. 22 Q. Anyone else? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Were any of those reports or updates in- 25 writing, or are those just — 172 I A. Verbal. 2 Q. And all of the documents that you provided 3 today, aside from the invoices that you will send me, these 4 are all the documents that are in your file regarding this, 5 regarding the Huntington Center Mail; is that correct? 6 A. Regarding the Huntington Center Mall for 7 Ezralow. Again, I think I may have mentioned in the prior 8 deposition that the files when we were under contract to 9 Macerich are in dead storage. And I did not retrieve those 10 dead files out of storage to make copies of them. 11 Q. But EDAW still main those? 12 A. Correct. They are not on the premises 13 though. 14 Q. But all of the Macerich files that were 15 actually used or utilized in the Ezralow project has been 16 presented? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Have you reviewed your deposition from 19 August 7, 2000? 20 A. I just started reviewing it I'm not 21 complete. 22 MR. COHEN: I have no further questions. 23 MR. WATSON: I don't have any. 24 MR. COHEN: I'll propose a stipulation. Well 25 relieve the court reporter of her duties. The court 173 16 (Pages 170 to 173) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 IAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BUki6INGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25. reporter will prepare the transcript. The transcript will then be submitted to Jayna Morgan for her review. Shell have 30 days to review the transcript and make whatever changes are necessary. The transcript will then be signed under penalty of perjury. Should the transcript be not signed, lost, or misplaced, then a certified copy of the original could be used in its stead. Is that agreeable? MR. WATSON: Yes, that's fine. MR. CORN: That's agreeable to you? THE WITNESS: Yes, it is. (Deposition adjourned at 11:45 a.m. Declaration Under Penalty of Perjury attached hereto.) 174 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE I, MARY L. LOAIZA, CSR #7261, Certified Shorthand Reporter, certify: That the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and place therein set forth, at which time the witness was put under oath by me; That the testimony of the witness and all objections made at the time of the examination were recorded stenographically by me and were thereafter transcribed; That the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of my shorthand notes so taken. I further certify that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or of any of the parties, nor financially interested in the action. I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct Dated this 13th day of September, 2000. 175 17 (Pages 174 to 175) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - able 130:17 about 115:11,17 116:17 122:11 124:18 125:19 130:9,19 132:21 148:20 149:1 156:10 165:3 169:13 171:2,25 accuracy 128:20 129:9 action 122:14 175:17 actual 171:24 actually 118:17 122:12 123:19 124:1,19,21 126:19 133:7 136:14,14 139:24 140:22 150:3 154:13 173:15 add 123:19 addition 135:11 additional 162:17,24 addressed 157:14 adequate 160:22 adjourned 174:13 administrative 172:12 adopt 140:7 adopted 137:13 147:3,7,10 153:23 153:5 adoption 118:21 affect 131:4 146:23 166:6 after 145:25 148:4 again 120:6 122:3 134:4,19 135:14 138:12 157:13 172:19 173:7 agents 140:24 agreeable 174:8,10 ahead 127:17 147:1 air 137:6.8 al 110:9 111:9 ALAN 112:10 Alia 115:3 121:15 129:2 131:24 132:4 133:23 134:7,8,16 153:23 157:20 172:5 allocate 170:8 allocation 169:24 allow 125:3 136:21 allowed 137:5 allowing 167:20 almost 127:8 along 122:15 159:16 164:23 alot 117:16 124:25 125:7 171:3 already 118:7 alter 131:2 alternative 115:23 116:5.8 alternatives 125:8,8 Although 169:4 amenable 125:16 amortization 167:9 167:14 amount 169:25 170:8 amounts 171:6,22 analyze 137:7 Angeles 112:6,12 another 124:3 127:21 163:15,16 163:21,21 168:23 anticipate 123:11 anticipated 136:11 anticipating 117:3 anybody 116:22 149:4,5 anyone 119:10 123:8 123:24 124:11 131:20 156:14 158:25 172:5,22 anything 121:2 144:1 149:1 169:12 anyway 146:25 APPEARANCES 112:1 applicant 118:2,22 127:13 142:24,25 143:6 145:18,20,23 146:14,18 147:5 148:24 150:11,14 151:5 165:19 applicants 115:18,19 162:23 application 127:8,11 151:5,11 161:5,7 165:20,24 166:4 applications 150:17 161:10,13,14 apply 157:10 166:10 approval 117:5 143:9,1-1 157:11 161:13,14,15 approvals 147:23 approved 124:5,8 125:4 approves 172:20 approximately 119:1 April 113:11 114:15 114:19 116:16,25 120:4 121:7 122:13,16,18,20 124:15 128:9,10 134:11,18,19 144:10 145:25 146:7,8 147:14,18 153:11,23 154:18 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 155:11 156:17 157:13 architect 141:22 168:8,10 architects 132:12,14 133:25 139:19 140:24 141:10 158:18 161:3 architectural 116:21 120:9,13 163:18 166:11 areas 137:5,14 around 134:18 139:21 article 113:20 155:3 155:13,17,21 ascertain 167:12 aside 135:1 172:5 173:3 asked 124:4 148:9 149:24 162:23 asking 146:20 165:12 assessment 113:12 122:24 126:13,20 127:7 assignment 142:11 150:23 assist 123:13 assisted 127:16 associated 137:9 associates 110:9 111:8 112:5 161:3 attach 138:3 attached 114:22 121:11 126:18 128:9,15 129:17 131:16 135:24 138:7,24 139:12 140:15 141:8 142:5 151:17,22 152:24 153:11,16 155:3,7 157:24 162:12 163:9 164:17 167:2 168:7 174:14 attaching 167:4 attachment 113:18 141:25 164:12 attendance 170:15 attended 134:17 138:13 attendees 129:8 154:2 attending 120:23 attorney 175:16 attorneys148:14,19 148:20 149:5,8 151:12 159:1,2 august 110:17 111:18 114:1,13 123:5 149:4 150:3 163:5,13 164:6 173:19 authorization 165:5 165:22 166:3 . automatically 166:12 automotive 167:21 167:22 Avenue 111:16 awaiting 167:15 aware 131:7 away 164:3 a.m 110:17 111:17 114:1 174:13. Page 176 146:4 148:4 152:7 154:3 159:14,23 161:4,22 162*5 162:18 163:11,20 165:17 166:9 169:4,9 believed 117:18 believes 162:5 between 117:7 130:20 bicker 146:23 billed 170:19,21,24 billing 170:1,10 bosses 132:21 both 154:7 171:6 _ I bottom 117:1 124:14 B 113.8 154:18 back 126:1 128:21 129:3,9 130:1 131:25 132:21 157:17 163:13 168:19 backbone 158:7 background 151:7 back-up 171:21 bank 167:12 Barretto 113:18 141:10 based 129:19 156:7 basic 160:5 basically 115:7 117:13 126:4 129:7 132:14,18 136:18 158:7,10 159:11 160:7,13 basis 170:25 Battery 167:11 Beach 113:23 133:25 139:16 152:2 153:22 164:13 166:16,23 became 145:23 146:13,17 becomes 151:15 becoming 148:24 before 111:18 122:11 175:7 behalf 111:16 114:5 being 115:19,22 127:14,15 137:10 137:19 143:14 165:15,21,25 believe 117:7 118:18 119:15 120:6 121:23 122:13 124:5 125:7 130:21 131:12 132:18 133:3,7,8 133:12 134:20 135:7 139:7 140:8 143:1 144:2,10,14 144:23 145:15 Boulevard 112:5 Brand 168:23 break 168:17,18 Brian 154:9 brief 134:21 briefly 128:17 bring 116:9 brought 115:25 122:13-124:21,24 125:4,11 152:14,17 budgeted 123:16 building 120:4 167:12 bulletin 117:1 122:20 124:20,20 125:11 156:17 bulletins 124:14 burtington 110:6 111:5 115:21,24 119:25 120:22 121:1,2,3 124:17 124:22 125:14 130:20 135:15 147:25 152:4 155:22,24 156:10 156:19,24 160:7,8 Burlington's 148:14 148:18 152:12 bus 121:20 122:15 132:16,17 134:19 business 122:6 155:14 calculations 159:9 159:10,11 california 110:1 111:1,17 112:6,12 114:2 175:19 call 128:6 170:11,12 called 114:5 161:10 catts 146:2,19 157:1 170:4 came 120:11 169:11 care 171:1 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER career 168:25 Carlos 157:20 158:1 case 110:8 111:7 127:15 140:6 CC 110:8 111:7 center 110:9 111:8 120:15,19 122:6 141:11 152:13 164:20 173:5,6 Ceqa 128:2 136:18 151:8 certain 130:18 137:7 137:9 143:22 144:15 145:22 157:6,8,10 168:12 CERTIFICATE 175:2 certified 114:6,21 121:10 126:17 128:14 129:16 131:15 135:23 138:6,23 139:11 140:14 141:7 142:4 151:21 153:15 155:6 157:23 162:11 163:8 164:16 167:1 168:6 174:6 175:5 certify 175:6,15 changed 145:19 changes 125:3 129:10 143:24 154:13,16 158:12 174:4 Chapter 113:17 139:7 charge 170:17 172:18 checklist 128:1 chose 127:2 147:5 circulate 145:5 circulated 144:25 cities 162:23 city 113:23 115:9,13 116:4,7 117:2,9 118:17 119:16,20 119:20 120:10,12 120:25 121:21 122:19 124:2,5,5,8 124:12,25 126:24 127:2,12,18 128:5 130:5 132:11 133:1,6,8,13,24 134:8,20135:3,5 139:4,16 140:19 141:13,17 143:9,12 143:15,17,24,24 144:7,9,11,13,16. 144:18,19 145:1,16 145:23 146:13,17 147:3,4,5,8,11,19 148:23,23 149:5 150:15 151:6,15 152:2 153:3.6,21 154:8,19 158:22.23 159:16 160:20,23 164:13,18 165:13 166:16,22 167:3,15 167:20 168:12 city's 125:17 139:15 156:20 167:4,9 168:11 civil 158:3,17 Clerical 172:13,14 client 146:25 coat 110:6 111:5 115:21,24 124:17 code 137:5 139:4,15 140:4 COHEN 112:4 113:6 114:9,18,23 125:24 126:1,2 137:24 138:1 146:20,24 147:6 149:18 152:21,23 157:2,3 168:17,19,20 173:22,24 174:10 come 129:3 146:3 155:23 comfortable 157:9 160:21 commencing 111:17 comment 118:12 131:1 143:11 167:17 comments 117:6 128:22 130:11,14 130:16 138:15 141:13 143:20,21 145:7,9 147:19 153:22 164:18 167:4,6 168:12 Commission 115:13 117:4,15,16,18,25 118:2,18 143:16 144:5 145:12 147:11 153:6 162:6 common 117:20 162:19,20 company 126:21,22 127:16 139:3,19 141:17 142:9 143:1 155:10 163:16,21,22 170:9 compare 127:19,23 complete 125:10 127:3,12 140:18 145:14 147:15,16 167:9 173:21 completed 123:22,25 completely 160:21 completing 113:12 126:13 142:9 Completion 141:25 computer 149:23 Conceptual 164:4 concern 168:11 concerned 171:22 concerns115:17 condemnution 120:21 conditional 157:10 161:12 165:6 conference 170:11 170:12 configuration 157:8 connection 169:8 considerations 137:13 considered 122:10 137:8 145:10 consistent 120:14 constraints 127:1 Construction 113:22 163:5,14 consultant 158:23,24 consultants 133:12 140:24 151:9 158:14 consultation 150:18 150:23 151:1 consulting 168:24 contacted 148:13 contain 120:8 167:8 contains 126:6 contents 145:8 continuation 114:12 continue 114:13 contract 162:14 169:6,9 173:8 contractor 169:23 172:20 contracts 162:21,22 conversation 117:14 124:2,4,9 170:13 coordination 146:2 copies 129:8 149:23 172:1 173:10 copy 114:21 115:2 116:11 119:21,22 121:10 122:7,8 126:5,8,17,19 128:14,19 129:6,16 131:15 135:23 138:6,23 139:2,11 140:9,14 141:7,11 142:4,8 144:15 151:21 153:15,25 154:22 155:6,11,12 155:16 157:23 162:11,14 163:8,11 164:16,18 167:1 168:6 171:5 174:6 copying 171:16 correct 118:10,15 120:17,20 124:13 126:7 128:12 133:18,20134:3,12 134:25 135:4,12 137:23 138:11,12 139:22 140:21 141:1,2 142:12,13 142:15,16,19 143:4 143:5,6,7,10,21 144:20,21 145:14 145:19,21 147:8,12 147:13,17,20,23 148:5 150:8,9 152:6 153:8,9 154:6,10 160:25 161:1,4,24 164:22 164:25 166:2,7 167:19 169:21,22 173:5,12 175:13,20 correspondence 119:5,6 122:4 128:25 129:18 136:2 140:16 154:24 170:5,6 corridor 169:7,13 council 115:13 117:2 117:9 124:5,6,8 143:17 147:11 153:3,6154:20 COUNSEL 112:1 county 110:2 111:2 155:14 couple 146:1 court 110:1 111:1 173:25,25 cover 113:11,13,14 113:16,16,17,18,19 113:19,22 121:6 128:2 131:9,10 135:19 138:2,10 139:7 151:16,18 153:11 164:11 Covington 172:8 create 140:5,6,8 171:3 created 130:4 creating 131:5 crossed 154:3,12 171:3,7 Crossing 142:1 Crossings 142:10 CSR 111:18 175:5 current 130:22 139:4 139:15 155:22 163:13 C.U.P 161:20,23 165:20 D 113:1 data 129:20 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 177 date 122:3 130:15 149:11 dated 113:11,13,14 113:15,16,17,18,18 113:20,21.21,22,22 113:22,23,24 121:7 128:10 129:12 131:10 135:18 138:19 141:24 151:18 162:8 164:12 167:5 168:2 175:21 dates 119:1,2,4 130:16 day 175:21 days149:12 171:13 174:3 dead 173:9,10 deadline 129:24 130:4,4,6,16 December 133:10 139:5 140:16 167:5 168:2 171:19 decided 157:9 decision 143:14,15 declaration 122:25 128:3 136:16,17 137:1,18,23 174:13 declare 175:18 deemed 145:11 defendants 110:10 111:10 112:9 definitely 153:7 definitive 156:10 demands 150:7 159:12 department 144:23 145:2 154:8 departments 115:14 145:1,6,16 147:19 department's 144:24 dependent 130:1 depends 117:23 depict 166:4 deposition 110:15 111:15 114:12 123:5 124:6,10 126:3 148:5,9 149:3,9,12,13,14 150:1 152:25 169:5,13 173:8,18 174:13 Description 113:10 design 139:20,24 159:3 desire 125:13 detail 160:14,21 detailed 160:16 detailing 154:20 details 115:11 117:17 145:24 determine 127:20 128:1 develop 121:1 developers 162:23 developing 157:6 development 118:21 137:8 139:21 145:2 155:25 156:2 different 118:14,15 difficult 167:12,13 Dinovitz 113:14,17 119:16 121:7,14 122:7 124:15,23 129:13 130:10,19 135:19 140:17,20 140:22 156:18,21 156:23 163:10,21 directing 117:8 directions 121:16,18 disc 155:12 discretion 143:19 162:4 discuss 120:25 121:20 122:15 134:19 147:25 148:7 149:18 discussed 115:6,22 117:17 120:3,6,21 121:2 124:21 134:15 135:2 148:17 150:13 discussing 114:14 132:15 136:3 discussion 114:17 116:17 117:7 125:25 152:22 discussions 116:14 125:1 144:11 146:4,6 156:9 diskette 144:15 Division 113:12 126:12 document 113:13 115:17 117:5 121:6,8 122:8 125:2,2,6,18 126:12,15 127:19 127:25 128:6,11 129:12,25 131:9,11 136:12,18,20 137:4 137:19 138:4,9,19 138:21 139:9,18 140:3,12 141:5,13 141:15 142:2,23 143:14,23,25 144:14,15,25 145:8 147:5 150:7 151:19 153:13 154:16 155:4 157:12,15,21 163:6 164:14 166:8,9,18 166:19 167:5,8 168:4 documentation 123:20 136:3,6,8 136:10 149:19 150:3,6 151:8 159:15 documenting 152:1 documents 125:8 128:2 147:2,3 149:22 151:8 159:5,7 173:2,4 doing 123:11 158:4 163:1 172:16 Don 172:17 done 123:5 152:10 165:25 169:16 171:17 Doug 156:5 Douglas 155:21 down 125:4,9 127:22 155:24 157:6,17 160:1,2 draft 128:19 142:23 drain 158:9 drainage 159:12 drive-thru 1.24:4 125:19,20 144:2,3 drive-thrus 153:8 due 127:1 duly 114:6 duplicate 166:20 duplicates 168:15 duties 173:25 E 113:1,8 162:17 EA 126:6 each 169:25 171:20 EAW 126:5 economic 145:2 EDAW 115:3 119:10 121;15 122:7,14,17 123:4,5 126:21,25 129:19 131:20 133:2,4,19,24 135:3 136.2,5 140:18 141:16 143:2,3 147:16 150:18 152:1 153:23 158:21,22 159:17 160:24 163:1 169:6,11,20 169:24 170:2,2,17 170:20 171:24 172:6,9,16 173:11 EDAW's 142:8,11 150:22 171:6 Edinger 122:15 132:17 169:7,13 edits 144:13 eight 126:14 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON. 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HUNTINGTON CENTER 151:5 165:20 forms 161:5,7 forth 125:4142:11 175:8 forward 129:9 130:17 165:23 forwarded 126:22 139:18 forwarding 122:8 162:14 four 133:7 171:12 frame 130:18 from 113:22,23 114:13 116:4,22 118:10,16 119:10 119:16,20 120:12 121:15,16,23 122:3 122:6 124:11 131:20133:24 135:1 140:17,20,22 141:9 148:23,23 149:4,5 150:3 153:21,22 155:10 155:13 156:8,14 157:20162:13 163:5,10 164:13 165:22 166:16,22 . 167:3 168:3 169:13 172:5,6 173:3,18 further 123:11,14 127:22 131:2 144:16 160:3 173:22 175:15 future 159:12,12,13 159:14 G 114:11 gave 115:8 119:6 132:14 General 127:19,24 136:25 137:3,7,11 GFA 141:19 158:18 163:19 164:8,9 give 150:18 165:15 given 122:18 144:16 go 114:16 119:7 125:23 132:20 133:9147:1- 152:20154:1 157:17160:3 169:20 goal 130:6,7,8 goals 130:15 going 114:13 117:19 119:7,20 121:3 126:25 130:22,24 130:25 131:1 132:20137:21 147:18 154:25- 155:19 156:21,23 157:12 gone 127:17 grammatical 167:6 granted 169:10,11 Gray 155:21,22 156:5,11 greater 137:10 Greaves 154:2 Greenberg 132:12 139:3,19 141:10 161:3 Greenspan 132:13 158:20 guess 123:15,17 146:25 147:3 153:7 156:3 guidelines 120:16,18 guys 154:7 H 113:8 149:17 Hall 158:2,5,17 159:3 handled 129:2 handwritten 113:16 113:20 138:20 153:12 154:1,5 happen 121:1,3 happened 171:5 hard 126:5,8 149:23 having 114:6 121:19 heard 156:11,14 hearing 115:13 117:4,19,21 118:4 118:8,19 144:5 161:23 162:5 hearings 118:3,6 119:24 130:18 heights 140:2 held 114:17 125:25 152:22 help 132:5 her 132:5 153:22 173:25 174:2 Herb 124:2,12,13 hereto 114:22 121:11 126:18 128:15 129:17 131:16 135:24 138:7,24139:12 140:15 141:8 142:5 151:22 153:16 155:7 157:24 162:12 163:9 164:17 167:2 168:7 174:14 him 124:3 129:19 149:21,25 himself 124:23 Hokuki 115:3 121:15 129:2 131:24 134:7,8 153:23 HOLLAND 112:11 hourly 170:17,19,24 hours 146:1 170:20 Howard 115:10 117:2,8,8 119:18 125:1,7,13 154:20 157:14 huntington 110:9 111:8 113:23 133:25 139:16 141:11 142:1,10 152:2 153:21 164:13,20166:16 166:23 173:5,6 identification 114:18 114:21 121:6,10 126:11,17 128:8,14 129:11,16 131:8,15 135:17,23 138:2,6 138:18,23 139:11 140:11,14 141:3,7 141:23 142:4 151:21 153:10,15 155:2,6 157:23 162:11 163:4,8 164:16 166:21 167:1 168:196 identified 137:12 148:19 identify 158:14 170:4,10,12,12,14 II 110:8 111:8 impact 127:5,10 128:4136:7,19,25 impacts 136:22 137:6,6,8,9,12 implementation 136:21 importance 157:14 important 137:1 improvements 158:12 165:21 166:4 167:10 include 115:24 116:8 120:10 124:16 125:14 140:1 156:19,24 included 116:19 126:3 144:1 152:5 includes 160:7 including 157:15 incoming 128:25 154:24 incorporate140:3 143:20,20 incorporated 145:11 159:20,23 160:6 incorporates 138:20 independent 169:23 172:19 indicated 149:13 indicates 166:3 167:6,15 indicating 124:8 information 129:23 130:2 132:20 140:25 151:10 infrastructure 158:8 159:10,14 initial 123:17 127:6 127:25 128:1,6 133:17,18 136:19 142:8 initially 126:25 159:22 input 145:7,9156:8 inquired 148:20 inside 132:18 Instructions 113:12 126:13 instructs 146:24 insure 144:25 145:3 insured 162:17 insureds 162:24 intense 136:14 intensity 137:7,9,10 interested 175:17 intern 172:7,7 internal 130:8 invoice 170:13 171:20 invoices 169:23,23 170:7,9 171:1,3,6,6 171:24,24,25 172:20,21 173:3 involved 116:13 152:2 162:21 involvement 146:1 147:14 169:2 irvine 111:17114:2 168:24 issue 116:9 122:15 122:16 144:4 issues 134:20 items 122:14126:4 140:17 J 112:10 114:11 James.115:7 116:3 117:8,8 119:15 128:10 139:16 146:5 148:1,15 153:22 154:19 165:18 167:3 Jane 115:7 116:3 117:8 119:15 128:10,18 139:16 146:5 148:1,15 153:22154:19 165:18167:3 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 179 January 116:10,15 129:19 130:13 133:22 138:3,13,19 164:12 166:22 jayna 110:16 111:15 113:21 114:4,11 162:8 174:2 Jerod 164:19 165:19 166:17,23 joined 169:6 July 151:17,18 152:1 June 146:11,12,12 147:6 148:22,22 jurisdiction 117:23 just 114:13 115:9 117:12 118:16 122:5 127:6 128:17 130:6,23 132:25 133:9 134:15 135:1 136:8 137:1,20 138:9 140:1,7 143:3 148:8,17,20 149:20 151:3,12 155:18 156:7,21 157:11.162:13 164:3 165:13 168:10 169:10 170:7 172:2,11,25 173:20 Karman 111:16 keep 125:1,13,20 130:17 155:18 Ken 169:5,10 Khara 172:8 kicked 162:5 kind 115:8 Kinsman 154:5 KNIGHT 112:11 know 117:6 118:20 119:13,23,25 121:25 123:2,21 124:19,25 125:3 129:4,19 130:3,13 130:14131:5,5 134:13 135:2,8,10 135:14,16 140:10 141:18 145:24 146:2,9 148:13 149:1,23 150:13 151:9 153:1,4 154:12,22 155:16 158:4,15,25 159:2 159:7,11 161:7,16 162:2,21 163:16,23 166:13,14 167:25 168:20169:1,2 170:14 171:16 172:11 knowing 151:4 knowledge 150:10 150:15 L 111:18 168:2 175:5 landscape 168:10,13 large-scale 164:1 Lasley 113:24 168:3 168:8 last 141:13 169:13 latest 141:11 164:19 167:4 law 112:4,10 132:13 158:20 Lawrence 168:3,9 laws 151:6 175:18 lawsuit 147:25 lease 152:12 leasehold 120:22 left 114:14 123:16 124:7 171:17 less 136:14,14,23 Let 127:18 letter 113:15,17,18 113:20,21,22,22,23 113:24 129:22 135:18 141:24 155:3,10 157:20 163:5,10 164:13 165:18 166:16,22 166:24 167:3,5,17 168:2 letting 129:18 let's 114:16 133:9 168:17 level 122:25 160:2,21 levels 136:23 liability 163:2 light 118:6 like 114:18 121:5 124:18,20 126:11 127:8 128:7 129:11 131:8 135:17 138:1,18 139:6 140:11 141:3,21,23 151:16 152:23 153:10 156:12157:19 160:16 162:7 163:4,19164:7,11 166:15 168:1 171:23 line 144:12 171:4 Linscott 132:13 158:19.20 list 126:3 138:15 140:17 listened 132:19 litigation 130:20,24 tittle 165:15 LLC 110:9 111:9 LLP 112:11 loaiza 111:18 175:5 located 168:24 locations 121:20 long 161:15 longer 172:9 look 119:3.4 127:18 140:9 152:23 164:6 looked 158:7 160:11 164:7 looking 164:4 LOREN 112:4 Los 112:6,12 lost 174:6 lot 132:18 168:11 Lube 167:11 LA 155:13 M 114:11 Macerich 118:1,1 126:20 127:16,16 136:12 137:15,21 141:12,17 142:19 142:20143:12 150:14,14 152:2,8 152:11,15 164:19 164:21,22 173:9,14 Macerich's 167:16 168:8,9 Macerich-owned 166:5 made 127:21 128:22 129:4 136:21 139:4 143:13,24 144:14 153:5 154:13,16 168:12 171:2 175:11 mail 124:7 main 173:11 maintain 169:15 maintained 170:3 major 116:20 125:5 157:17 make 131:1 144:16 147:16 156:11,15 173:10 174:3 makers 143:15,15 making 125:18 . 141:14 157:15 mall 121:1 126:21 132:18 137:8 141:11 157:8 158:8,11 173:5,6 mall's 155:14 many 118:20 132:23 171:18 maps 129:20 March 144:10,10 157:19 mark 114:18 121:5 126:11 138:1 JAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 139:6 140:11 141:3,23 149:16 151:16 153:10 155:2 157:19 162:7 163:4 164:11 166:15,21 168:1 marked 113:10 114:20 121:9 126:16 128:7,13 129:11,15 131:8,14 135:17,22 138:5,18 138:22 139:10 140:13 141:6 142:3 144:12 151:20 153:14 155:5 157:22 162:10 163:7 164:15 166:25 167:17 168:5 mary 111:18 175:5 may 135:5 146:12,15 147:6 148:9 152:14 172:8 173:7 maybe 119:7,17 146:1 153:25 157:7 171:21 McDonnell 122:6 mean 131:2 142:17 144:19 145:18 means 147:10 measures 116:18 120:8,10 136:20,22 meet 149:25 151:6 meeting 113:11,13 113:15,16,19,19 114:14,19 115:2,4 115:6,11,15,16,18 115:21 116:10,16 116:16,25 118:16 118:18 120:5 121:19,22,24,25 122:10,12,13,14,17 122:18,21 124:6,15 124:19 128:9,19,20 128:23 129:3,5,8 129:19 130:14 131:11,12,18,21 132:1,3,6,9,10,19 132:23 133:3,10,11 133:15,17,18,21,22 134:2,5,10,11,14 134:16,17,21,22,24 138:3,10,13,14 139:5 144:10,11 145:25 146:7 149:19,20 151:17 151:25 152:1 153:12,23,24 154:10 156:18 157:14 170:14,15 meetings 116:14 118:14,16 120:23 132:25 133:1,4,5,6 133:6, 7, 8 134:14 135:1,2,6,8,9,11,15 150:14 152:15,17 156:6,8,9 members 132:11,11 170:2 memo 113:21 117:2 117:9,11 148:22,23 149:1 154:19,22 156:17 162:8 memorandum 126:3 mention 152:8 mentioned 130:21 135:12 144:6 169:5 173:7 message 124:7 Michael 113:24 168:2 middle 122:23 142:22 Mike 168:8 mind 165:8 minute 133:21,22 134:2,10,11 minutes 113:11,13 113:15,16,19,19 114:15,19 115:2 116:25 118:16 122:21 124:15 128:9,19,20,23 129:3,5,8 131:11 131:12 132:3,6 133:3,10 134:14,17 134:21 138:3,10 151:17,25 153:12 153:23,24 154:13 154:18 156:18 170:15 misplaced 174:6 mitigated 122:25 128:3 136:15,17,22 137:18,23 mitigation 136:20,22 modification 153:8 157:18 modifications 125:18 141:14 143:13 144:17 153:5 159:25 160:4 Moline 168:3,9 money 171:2 Montgomery 116:13 116:18,20,23 118:10 120:4,8,11 120:22 125:15 135:14 150:10,19 151:10 165:4,5,8 165:14,21,22 166:7 Page 180 166:9 167:11.21 monthly/hourly 170:25 months 161:19 171:20 more 130:7 151:7 160:16 164:2 169:12 172:11 morgan 110:16 111:15 113:21 114:4,11,23 121:8 126:15 128:11 131:13 135:21 138:4 162:8 174:2 most 125:17,21 145:13.17 167:6 move 165:23 moving 130:17 much 171:2 myself 115:3 140:17 141:9 N 112:4 113:1 114:11,11 nailed 125:4,9 157:16 160:1,2 name 114:10 162:16 162:23 nature 167:7 necessary 117:4 118:5,8 136:8,10 145:11 149:25 150:24 151:11 174:4 need 115:23 121:18 140:18 158:13 159:25 160:16,18 needed 116:8 129:21 129:23 136:4 140:25 149:23 158:12 160:3 166:4 needs 127:7 140:3 151:4 negative 122:25 128:3 136:16,17 137:1,18,22,23 never 156:5,9,11 new 128:4 155:25 newspaper 113:20 155:3,13 next 133:21 134:10 171:12 nice 171:4 Nobody 116:24 non -conforming 167:10 Norvani 157:20 158:1 note 122:20 notes 113:20 138:20 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 IAYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON CENTER 153:12 154:1 175:14 notice 119:19,20,21 119:23 noticed 118:18135:9 notices 119:23 not -to -exceed 170:21 November 164:12 166:15 167:16 numerous 135:6 O 114:11 149:17 162:17 oath 175:9 objection-144:2 146:21 objections 144:1 175:10 obtained 166:3 obtaining 150:16 occur 159:25 occurred 118:7 124:6 132.10 133:4 152:1 OCTA 121:16,19 122:12,15 132:10 132:19,25 133:5 134:6,19 October 141:4 off 114:14,16 125:23 132:17 137:24 152:20 172:21 offer 143:23 office 126:9 172:3 OFFICES 112:4,10 officials 121:21 often 171:1 oh 116:24 140:23 163:2 Okay 116:22 117:20 121:17 127:18 129:1 130:3 133:9 133:14 134:1 139:1,6,14 140:20 144:6 151:24 153:10 156:4 160:9 162:16 166:21 168:14 171:8 once 125:3,9 145:24 147:3 159:25 164:2 one 117:3,19,20 118:4,8 122:14,17 124:1,14 125:22 132:16,17 133:23 134:16 144:2 149:24 155:1 158:2,3 162:3 ones 133:2 134:14 only 117:3,18,20 118:4,8 124:9 126:4 166:5 169:8 171:23,23 opinion 156:6 orange 110:2 111;2 155:14 order 140:25 165:23 original 174:7 other115:14 119:16 122:4 124:12,13 134:13,14135:2 140:24 145:1 149:24 170:2,5,15 out 119:8 127:2 138:10 154:3,12 169:12 171:3,7 173:10 outcome 132:19 outdated 164:2 outlining 117:12 140:17 161:5 over 115:11144:7,7 144:18 149:21 154:1 overriding 137:13 overview 115:8 132:14 own 140:5,7,8 owned 166:2• owner 126:21 150:12 165:4,22 owners 130:23 150:16 P 149:17 page 113:4,9 117:1 122:23 124:14 142:22,22 154:19 165:2,3 pages 113:11,16 126:14 138:20 171:18,21,24,25 paragraph 165:1,3 165:17 Park 122:6 parking 132:18 168:11 -_ part 122:4 123:17 150:19,22 151:11 155:25 156:6 159:10 165:9,15,19 partial 137:4 Partially 137:3 particular 127:22 139:24 169:25 parties 175:16 part-time 172:7 passed 164:23 Pause 137:25 payment 172:20 PBR 168:20,25 169:1,6,8,10 penalty 174:5,14 175:18 people 138:12 160:23 per 170:8 perform 123:16 160:23 performed 152:11 160:20 170:10 period 139:24 170:10 perjury 174:5,14 175:18 permit 120:12 157:10 161:13 165:7 166:10 permitted 144:4 167:21 person 160:23 personal 169:23 personally 151:4 phase 165:6,15,20 Phillips 168:23 phone 146:2 place 117:21 122:1,2 124:19 132:8 146:6 171:4 175:8 plaintiff 110:7 111:6 111:16112:3 114:5 Plaintiff's 113:10 114:20 121:9 126:16 128:13 129:15 131:14 135:22138:5,22 139:10 140:13 141:6 142:3 151:20 153:14 155:5 157:22 162:10 163:7 164:15 166:25 168:5 planner 115:7 planner's 162:4 planning 113:12 115:13 117:3,15,15 117:18,21,24118:2 118:17 126:12 143:16 144:5,23,24 145:12 147:11 153:6 162:6 168:24 plans 115:23 116:5,8 131:2 155:14 156:7 157:6,16 158:8 159:5,10,14 159:16,22 160:3,5 160:14 161:4 164:1 point 115:10 124:20 130:21 143:23 144:15,19 145:22 147:7,18 156:25 157:4,5,8,16 Policy 162:17 possibility 132:22 possible 132:16 163:18 possibly 110:16,17 132:17 practice 145:17 147:22 premises 171:14,15 173:12 preparation 132:5 149:3 170:15 prepare 117:8 126:25 127:25 128:6129:21 136:5 140:25 142:14 154:19 161:3 169:7 174:1 prepared 115:2 122:8 123:1,2,15 126:20127:10,13 127:17 128:3 132:3 133:3 134:14,17,21 136:2 136:12,16,25 142:24 151:25 153:23159:3,8 164:8,9165:18 preparing 143:2,4 151:7 152:11 165:10 present 115:4,14,18 116:15,22,24 118:11,13 119:10 119:13,15,16 120:1 121:21,24 126:5 130:13 131:18,20 133:2,5,14,23,24 134:4,20135:3,15 138:13 150:6 154:9 169:24 presented 143:9,14 144:19,22 169:18 173:16 preserve 146:21 press 155:19 presume 125:14 pretty 125:17 previous 123:4 126:3 previously 118:3 152:24 157:13 principal 169:6 172:18 prior 117:15,24 118:1,6,21 124:6,9 126:21 128:2 136:11,15 141:14 143:14 144:13 149:9,11,12,25 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 181 152:3,4 165:19 167:16.23 168.9,13 173:7 probably 125:21 127:23 130:5 134:18 149:12 155:18 163:13 164:9 171:20,23 procedures 150:15 proceeding 156:2,7 157:6 proceedings 137:25 175:7 process 131:4 143:23 148:21 161:15,20 161:21,23 162:1 165:6,9,15 produce 149:23 producing 129:24 149:22 production 150:3 project 115:7,12,14 117:21,25 118:12 123:6,9,12 124:3 127:7,11 128:2 129:7 130:17 131:10 132:24 136:4,9,12137:2 137:19 146:1 . 152:3,4 155:19 156:2 158:6,16 165:19 169:3,16,25 172:6,8,15,19 173:15 projects 145:17 property 150:12,16 165:4,22 166:1,2,5 166:7 proposal 126:23 132:20,22 136:5,15 141:15 142:8 propose 173:24 proposed 128:2 132:15 136:13 137:10,19 154:21 158:11 proposes 136:20 proposing 137:16 provide 127:7 150:23,25 151:5 160:25 169:24 172:2 provided 127:3 151:10 164:1,19 172:17 173:2 providing 151:8 provisions 166:9 public 117:4,19 118:19 119:17 121:23 122:5,16 135:8,9 137:5 145:1 159:24 161:23 publicly 118:18 purpose 115:16 purposes 170:1 pushed 130:1 put 115:23 175:9 -Q- quality 137:6,9 question 155:23,24 160:13 165:11 questioned 148:18 questioning 149:21 questions 148:20 173:22 quicker 161:20 quite 156:9 quotes 155:21 R 114:11 raised 122:16 144:4 rate 170:17,20 rather134:21 rational 118:4 reach 130:18 reaction 125:12 reading 170:5 realistic 125:8 really 117:23 130:23 131:3 156:3,5 recall 115:22 119:22 121:4 128:24 134:22 146:15' 152:19 155:1 receive 119:19,21,23 received 119:22 129:20,23 130:1 154:22 receiving 155:20 156:8 recently 115:9 169:6 169:10 receptive 125:18 recognize 114:24 121:8 recollection 117:14 156:20 recommend 167:14 recommendation 167:9 record 114:10,16 125:23 126:1 137:24 152:20 168:19 recorded 175:11 red-144:12 redact172:2 redacted 171:2,7 Reddick 168:23 redevelopment 137:16 152:5 158:11 169:7 reference 140:4 149:22 referred 142:25 referring 165:14,17 169:1 refers 163:24 reflect 126:23 141:15 reflects 134:23 refreshed 156:20 regard 121:17 137:2 165:14 regarding 118:21 120:4 121:2,15 123:5,8,12,24 124:2,21 130:11 131:25 132:23 148:23 150:19 152:11 153:8 155:13,14 158:5,15 165:14 168:11 172:15,18 173:4,5 173:6 regards 122:24 reimbursable 171:21 related 163:21 relation 120:22 relative 175:15 relieve 173:25 relocating 132:17 remember 116:1,2,6 116:9 119:1 120:3 122:2 125:10,12 146:16 149:11 164:4,7 167:20 remodel 116:21 120:9 remodeling 116:17 155:15 replaced 164:2 report 127:5,10 128:4 131:25 136:8,19,25 137:21 172:16 reporter 114:7,21 121:10 126:17 128:14 129:16 131:15 135:23 .. 138:6,23 139:11, 140:14 141:7 142:4 151:21 153:15 155:6 157:23 162:11 163:8 164:16 167:1 168:6 173:25 174:1 175:6 REPORTER'S 175:2 reports 172:24 representatives ]AYNA MORGAN, VOL.2, 08.30.00 BURLINGTON V. 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HUNTINGTON CENTER Page 185 114:1 90010112:6 90071-2040112:12 98167:5 168:2 99 133:10162:8 163:13 164:7 ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - JAVID C. BIGGS, VOL-3, 09.11.0a BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON- I SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE) 3 OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) AVIV L. TUCHMAN & ASSOCIATES 5 California Corporation, ) 4 BY: AVIV L. TUCHMAN, ESQ. 3435 Wilshire Boulevard 6 Plaintiff, ) 5 30th Floor Los Angeles, California 90010 7 vs. ) Case No. OOCCO6309 6 78 (213) 385-M FOR THE WITNESS DAVID C. BIGGS: 8 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) N BY: R. BRUCCEE TE PER ESQ. a Delaware Limited Liability ) VOLUME Ill 9 515 South Figueroa Street 9 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) (Pages 325-398) Suite 1850 a Delaware Limited Liability ) 10 Los Angeles, California 90071 10 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) (213) 617-0408 Delaware Limited Liability Company,) 11 11 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive,) FOR THE DEFENDANT'S: ) 12 12 Defendants. ) HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP 13 BY: MARK S. SHIPOW, ESQ. 13 633 West Fifth Street 14 14 Twenty -First Floor 1 5 Los Angeles, California 90071-2040 15 15 (213)896-2400 17 16 17 18 DEPOSITION OF: 18 19. DAVID C. BIGGS 19 20 MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2000, 9:10 A.M. 20 = - 21 �g22 21 S�'� 23 24 24 25 25 325 _: ___ -- - - 327 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 INDEX 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE 2 Examination By: Page 3 MR TUCHMAN--------------- 329 4 BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY WAREHOUSE) 3 OF HUNTINGTON BEACH, INC., a ) 4 EXHIBITS 5 California Corporation, ) 5 Page Introduced Plaintiffs Description and Marked 6 Plaintiff, ) 6 215 3-page Declaration of 330 7 vs. ) Case No. OOCCO6309 7 David Biggs 8 216 54-page Redevelopment Plan 335 8 HUNTINGTON CENTER ASSOCIATES, ) for the Huntington Beach a Delaware Limited Liability ) VOLUME III 9 Redevelopment Project 9 Company; EZRALOW RETAIL PROPERTIES,) 10 a Delaware Limited Liability ) INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER 10 Company; THE EZRALOW COMPANY, a ) 11 Delaware Limited Liability Company,) PAGE LINE 11 and DOES 1 through 10, inclusive,) 12 355 9 12 Defendants.) ) 13 374 10 13 14 14 376 10 15 15 16 16 17 17 18 The deposition of DAVID C. BIGGS, taken on behalf 18 19 of the Plaintiff, before Mary Kelly, Registered 19 20 Professional Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter, CSR 20 21 No. 11519, for the State of California, with principal 21 22 office in the County of Orange, commencing at 9:10 a.m., 22 23 Monday, September 11, 2000, at the Law Offices of Aviv I_ 23 24 Tuchman & Associates, located at 3435 Wilshire Boulevard, 24 25- 30th Floor, Los Angeles, California. 25 326 328 1 (Pages 325 to 328) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 Monday, September 11, 2000, 9: 10 a.m. 1 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question. 2 Los Angeles, California 2 MR. TUCHMAN: Please read the question back. 3 3 (Whereupon the record was read.) 4 DAVID C. BIGGS 4 MR. TEPPER: When he says "independent," he means 5 was called as a witness by and on behalf of the Plaintiff, 5 independent of any advice given to you by our office or the 6 and having been first duly sworn by the Certified Shorthand 6 office of the city attorney. 7 Reporter, was examined and testified as follows: 7 MR. TUCHMAN: That's correct. 8 8 THE WITNESS: Well, my understanding was it was asked 9 EXAMINATION 9 for by the council for Huntington Center Associates in 10 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 10 relationship to litigation they were in. 11 Q Mr. Biggs, good morning. 11 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 12 A Good morning. 12 Q Okay. By the way, has the 33433 report been 13 Q Do you remember the admonitions relative to being 13 completed? 14 under oath? 14 A No, not at this point. 15 A Yes. 15 Q What is exactly a 33433 report? L6 Q Okay. Have you had an opportunity to review 16 A It's a report required statutorially under the 17 Volumes 1 and 2 of your deposition? 17 Health and Safety Code if a redevelopment agency is 18 A Yes, I have. 18 proposing to enter into an owner participation agreement or 19 Q And have you made corrections? 19 a disposition or development agreement for the 20 A Yes, I have. 20 redevelopment of property. 21 Q And you've provided them to counsel? 21 Q And does the 33433 report have to be completed 22 A Yes, 22 prior to entering into the OPA? 23 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. Recently, you provided a 23 A It has to be available at the time that the legal 24 declaration. I'm going to ask the reporter to mark for 24 notice for public hearing on an OPA or DBA is available.'. 25 identification as Exhibit 215. This is the declaration of 25 So, yes, it has to be available at least 14 days pttior to 329 I David Biggs. Take a look at that. And for the record, 1 2 that is a declaration dated August 4, 2000. 2 3 (Whereupon Exhibit 215 was marked for 3 4 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter.) 4 5 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 5 6 Q Do you recognize Exhibit 215? 6 7 A Yes, I do. 7 8 Q That's your signature? 8 9 A Yes, it is. 9 10 Q And you signed that on or about August 4, 2000; 10 11 is that correct? 11 12 A Yes. 12 13 Q Do you know why you signed this declaration? 13 14 A I believe so. 14 15 Q Why? —_ t5 16 A Why? I was asked to do so by our special 16 17 counc7: 17 18 Q Do you have any independent understanding as to 18 19 why you were asked to sign this declaration? 19 20 MR. SHIPOW: I'm going to object to questions about 20 21 this declaration. The deposition being taken today is in 21 22 the case of Burlington versus Huntington Center Associates 22 23 and this declaration was filed in a completely different 23 24 case. 24 25 MR. TUCHMAN: You can answer the question. 25 330 331 the public hearing, Q And that's Mr. Rabe that's working on that? A Yes, he is. Q Do you know when hell be completing the 33433 report? A Hopefully, sooner rather than later. So sometime, I imagine, in September. Probably sometime still in September. Q And has the OPA been completed? A No. Q What's the status of that? A We're still negotiating points on the OPA. Q What points are you still negotiating? A A variety of points related to specific language in the OPA. Q Anything related to Burlington? A No. Q Have you determined the gap? A Yes, we have. Q What is the gap? MR. TEPPER: No. I'm going to object on the grounds that that would invade areas of privacy that are still the subject of work product and attorney -client privilege. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q Was the gap within the estimate that you provided 332 2 (Pages 329 to 332) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 AVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 to 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 8 9 t0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 at your last deposition? A Within the range, yes; Q Now, it's 10 to $20 million? A I don't recall. I would have to look at the transcript Q Has it been decided how the gap will be met, how it will be funded? A Yes, basically. But also I described that in my last deposition, so -- Q Well, in last deposition you said sales tax, property taxes, and bond issuances, you may have said a few other things. But has it been decided -- has it been narrowed down or decided exactly how the money will be raised to fill the gap? A No, different than what I described last time. Q Has anyone advised you that the raising of property taxes may be violative of Prop 13? A There is no raising of property taxes. Q In your last deposition, you mentioned that you would be able to raise money to fund the gap through property taxes. Am I correct or incorrect? A No, you're incorrect in your understanding of how tax increment works. The tax rate is the same on the 333 property. It's just the increase in value due to improvements made that results in more taxes being generated there is no increases in taxes there is purely an increase in value. Q So when you say the "property taxes," you mean to the actual redeveloped parcel, not for homeowners in Huntington Beach? A No. No. Just for the redevelopment parcel. Q Okay. Do you have a date of estimated completion of the OPA? A It would be sometime soon now. You know, it depends on when the attorneys get it done or not, so — you know, it's really not completed until — you know, signed by the outside — the other parties. So, I don't know when that will be.. Q In September, do you estimate?- October? A I hope sometime in September. But it depends on, you know, when we get it, so. Q- Okay. Have you seen a draft of it? A Certainly. Q And have there been multiple drafts? A Yes. Q When you refer to Exhibit 215, "the plan" -- I'm looking at paragraphs 4 and 5 -- is the plan that you're referring to Exhibit 216?- 334 1 A I guess without comparing it to the one I have in 2 my possession, I would say so. 3 (Whereupon Exhibit 216 was marked for 4 identification by the Certified Shorthand Reporter.) 5 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 6 Q And do you know who Rosenow, Spevacek is? 7 A Yes. They're a consultant group that we hired to 8 do a plan amendment merger in 1995, '96. 9 Q Do they still do work for the city? 10 A We just retained them to do a new redevelopment 11 plan adoption for part of the city, yes. 12 Q And does that — this new adoption that you're -- 13 strike that. 14 This new project that you have them working on, 15 does that have anything to do with Huntington Center? 16 A No. 17 Q What was the scope of Rosenow's assignment with 18 respect to Exhibit 216? 19 A This was done, as I mentioned, for a proposed 20 merger and amendment. We previously had five separate 21 redevelopement project areas and they were merged into one 22 in 1996, and we also made some other updates to the 23 redevelopment plan. 24 Q Now, the merger was of the five areas which 25 include the Huntington Center, is that correct? 335 1 A Yes. 2 Q And this was done in 1996; am I correct? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Take a look at your declaration. I have a few 5 things highlighted. Paragraph 7, it says, "Among other 6 things, the analysis" — and that's economics — "involves 7 estimating the rate of return on the proposed investment." 8 What does that mean, "Estimating the rate of 9 return on the proposed investment"? 10 A Well, we discussed this in my last deposition, so 11 I'm — if you would like me to go back, I'll find the 12 section there. 13 Q I'm not sure that you did. 14 A Yes, I did. I just reviewed them so I do recall 15 specifically. 16 MR. TEPPER: Before we get into undue colloquy here, 17 I'd like to point out to Mr. Tuchman that this is the ninth 18 hour of his deposition that's occurred on two other 19 separate occasions and that this deposition will be ending 20 at 10:45. 21 The witness was here at 8:30. Nobody else was 22 here at 8:30. And anything further then 10:45 will be 23 obtained by way of court order. 24 Subject to that, you may answer the question or 25 any other question that is posed to you between now and 336 3 (Pages 333 to 336) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24- 25 10:45. THE WITNESS: But if I can -- just a moment. I don't want to contradict anything I said in the prior deposition — MR. TEPPER: That's fine. THE WITNESS: -- so I'm not going to answer questions I've already been asked and answered. MR. TEPPER: That's fine. If you want to look at the deposition and find where you have already answered the question, go ahead, but it's counsel's time, and I don't want to short him any more. MR. TUCHMAN: Just a brief response. I don't want to get into any arguments. The reporter was maybe 15 minutes late. As a courtesy we waited for Mr. Shipow. And I came in promptly upon Mr. Shipow's arrival. From now on, if you don't want us to wait for counsel, we won't. And as to 10:45, you know, third day we always wanted to complete the deposition and we have tried to complete the deposition. We wanted to complete it last Friday but apparently Mr. Biggs forgot about it that. Definitely caused me some lost time. If you want to argue about it, you can. MR. TEPPER: It's your nickel. ' THE WITNESS: As you didn't show the first day, I was up here in L.A. for the deposition, so -- 337 MR. TEPPER: Let's focus on -- let's focus on questions so we can get out of here. THE WITNESS: If you would like me to look at the transcript, I can find the section. But I did ask and answer that question previously. MR. TUCHMAN: Also, for the record, on the first day that was your counsel's error, not ours. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q When you say "estimating the rate of return," is the rate of return the return for the city or the return on the investment for the developer? A I believe I asked and answered that previously. Q Okay. Here is your depositions, go right ahead. A Okay. MR. SHIPOW: Do you have the Fey word index, Counsel? Maybe that would help speed things up. MR. TUCHMAN: It's attached to the transcripts. THE WITNESS: Page 60, starting at line 13. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q Your answer is -- the question is: "And the gap analysis means if they might need financial assistance to make sure the project gets done? Answer: "Right. If you look at their very simple explanation is when you talk about development economics being relatively simple math, you've got certain 338 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON costs associated with developing a project, land and construction, interest, other professional fees. You take the total anticipated income from the project and using some generally accepted capitalization rates, you look at how much cost the income will support in giving the developer a reasonable return on their investment. If the income doesn't support the reasonable cost, then that's a 8 gap." 9 Now, with respect of estimating the rate of 10 return on the investment, why is the city concerned with 11 what the rate of return is for the developer? 12 A Because that goes to what the gap might be. 13 Q And when you estimate the rate of return based on 14 a gap, how many years our projection do you count on? 15 A Well, you know, typically, a Pro Forma would be 16 run anywhere between 25 and 30 years as a typical review. 17 Q By the way, you mentioned that you reviewed your 18 two depositions prior to coming to your deposition today, 19 did you review any other documents in preparation for your 20 deposition today? 21 A No. 22 Q When you arrived at that gap figure, did you 23 arrive -- did you compute values of any of the leases of 24 the property? 25 A No. 339 1 Q Did you compute any value pertaining to 2 Burlington? 3 A No. 4 Q So you felt you could complete your analysis of 5 what the gap would be without any regard to Burlington's 6 numbers? 7 A Yes. We just generally looked at what the 8 estimated costs were in a range of building out a shopping 9 center of approximately a million square feet and what the 10 rents generated might be to the extent there is any issues 11 associated with Burlington then that's on the developer's 12 nickeL 13 Q And the gap that you've arrived at that's the 14 cap? There is a maximum amount that the city or the 15 redevelopment agency will invest in the project; is that 16- correct? 17 A Yes. 18 MR. SHIPOW: I'm going to object to this whole line 19 of questioning as being entirely outside the scope of this 20 lawsuit. There aren't any issues in this lawsuit that I'm 21 aware of that have anything to do with the gap in the 22 redevelopernent analysis. 23 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 24 Q Now, has the rate of return been calculated? 25 A A rate of return is utilized in the analysis. 340 - 4 (Pages 337 to 340) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q What is that rate of return? MR. TEPPER: Objection. That is still within work product and attorney -client privilege. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q Do you know what the estimated rate of return is? MR. TEPPER: Same objection. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q Can you calculate the gap without knowing the rate of return? A No, not usually. But it would be a generally accepted rate of return for the type of nature of the project contemplated. Q That's a dollar amount that rate of return or a . percentage? A It's a percentage. Q Okay. Thanks. What valuations of any assets did you have to determine the gap? A Valuation of any assets? Q Correct. A Could you clarity? Q Structures, leases, any holdings, land value? A' Well, we knew the value of the property that the developer paid for their holdings. I don't recall if Jim in his analysis if there was a — I think we — there is a -- well, gosh, I would have to go back and look at it. I 341 don't recall if there was any specific factors associated with the main cost factors or the actual cost of constructing the facility, so — Q Do you need any additional asset valuations to complete the numbers in terms in including the rate of return for your OPA? A It depends on — I'm trying to think if we have anything we need or we don't need. I have to go back and check with Jim. I think he's got, you know, basically place holder numbers for anything he needs. And, again, depending on how the deal is structured we may or may not need it depending on who is assuming the risk in the transaction, so — Q What does that mean, "assuming the risk in the transaction"? A Well, if we've capped our costs, you know, we can use; you know, very rough estimates of, for example, demolition, construction, off -site improvements, acquisitions, if there is any, and if we capped our cost it really doesn't matter if the estimates are right or wrong because the developer carries a risk if they're right or wrong. Q As you sit here today, are you aware of any valuations of any assets of the Huntington Center of any type that you need to go forward with the OPA? 342 1 A To go forward with the OPA. not necessarily. 2 Potentially, implementation of the OPA, you know, but that 3 remains to be seen yet. 4 Q I'm sorry. I didn't hear that word, "potentially 5 a" -- 6 MR. SHIPOW: Implementation of the OPA. 7 THE WITNESS: An implementation of the OPA but that 8 remains to be seen yet. 9 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 10 Q What does implementation of the OPA mean? 11 A It means after it's approved, the developer has 12 to move forward with the project on the site. 13 Q Have you determined if the redevelopment is 14 viable? 15 A It Is viable? Some form of redevelopment is 16 viable, yea. 17 Q Have you determined if the development is viable? 18 19• A The redevelopment is viable? Some form of 20 redevelopement Is viable, yes. 21 Q Have you determined if the redevelopment that is 22 contemplated by the OPA .you're entering into is viable? 23 A Well, the OPA is not that specific as to the 24 particular level of redevelopment. But there is a 25 redevelopment formula or number of scenarios that would be 343 1 viable. Again, an OPA doesn't necessarily tie the 2 developer down to one specific scope of development. 3 Q Is the OPA that you are currently negotiating, 4 does it mirror or is it the same type of redevelopment as 5 submitted in connection with SB 13 that we've seen? 6 A Sure. SB 13 would allow any number of 7 development scenarios to take place within its context. 8 Q So that's what is contemplated under the OPA; 9 correct? 10 A The project has to be developed that it would be 11 in compliance with the specific plan. 12 Q And has it been determined that the 13 redevelopement is viable so long as it's within the context 14 of SP 13 or its variations? 15 A Not entirely. It depends on the ultimate scope 16 of development When you talk about viable, from our 17 perspective it's viable in that you know entering into an 18 OPA. But whether it's not as viable from the developer's 19 perspective, that remains to be seen. We do have concerns, 20 you know, about the type of tendencies leasing to 21 co -tenancies, those kinds of things. But that will only 22 play out with time. That doesn't have to be resolved at 23 the time an owner participation agreement is entered into. 24 Q Why are you concerned about tenancies or the 25 types of tenants? 344 5 (Pages 341 to 344) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 t A Because it's a very different type of project. 1 2 Depending on the kind of tenants that are there. If you've 2 3 got a shopping center -- this is just illustrative -- that 3 4 has a Sacks Fifth Avenue, it's a different kind of shopping 4 5 center from a shopping center that has a Wards, for 5 6 example. 6 7 Q Are you aware of a tenant list? 7 8 A There is no, quote, unquote, tenant list. I know 8 9 the developer has letters of intent with certain tenants 9 10 and we use illustrative kinds of tenants, but until they 10 11 actually sign leases, I wouldn't count on any particular 11 12 tenants being in place. 12 13 Q Are there any leases that have actually been 13 14 signed? 14 15 A I don't know if there are or not at that point. 15 1.6 Q Who are the tenants who have signed letters of 16 17 intent? 17 18 A I haven't seen letters of intent myself, so I 18 19 don't know particularly who those are. 19 20 Q Well, you have information? 20 21 A Pardon? 21 22 Q You have information as to who signed letters of 22 23 intent? 23 24 A I can illustrate tenants who have signed letters 24 25 of intent, but I haven't seen the letters of intent myself. 25 345 1 Q I understand you may not have seen the letters of 1 2 intent, but from any source have you learned who the 2 3 tenants are that have signed letters of intent? 3 4 A I know who some of the — I've heard who some of 4 5 the tenants are who signed letters of intent. 5 6 Q Who? 6 7 A Century Theaters would be one example. Let's 7 8 see, Restaurant Ruth Chris — Chris Ruth Steakbouse. Let's 8 9 see — 9 10 MR. TEPPER: Who is Ruth Chris? 10 l i THE WITNESS: Ruth's Chris. 11 12 MR. TEPPER: Yeah. 12 13 THE WITNESS: I think California Pizza Kitchen. 13 14 Containers Stores.. I don't remember one of those. 14 15 _which BY MR. TUCHMAN: - 15 16 Q You mean like Crate And Barrel? 16 17 A No. Like Hold Everything or the Container Store, 17 18 something like that. Let's see, a couple other 18 19 restaurants. Some softgood retailers. Abecrombie & Fitch 19 20 I think is one that's been mentioned. Woman's fashion. 20 21 That kind of thing. 21 22 Q What two restaurants? 22 23 A A few restaurants. Let's see, I'm trying to 23 24 think. Buca De Pepe. Don't ask me to spell it. I don't 24 25 know. 25 346 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON Q I wasn t going to. A Some more food court kind of things, but I don't recall the specific names. Q You said two other restaurants, one was this Buca place, what was the other place? A That's all I can recall. Q Any other retailers? A Not that I can recall specifically. Q How many theaters for Century Theaters. A I don't recall the number of screens. Q Now, this Century Theaters is now in lieu of Edwards because Edwards backed out? A Actually, I think the Edwards' lease was cancelled quite a while ago given their financial circumstances. Q Do you know when it was cancelled? A No, not specifically. Q Are you aware there have been discussions with Costco? A With Costco? No. Q Yes. A No, not for this site that I'm aware of. Q Any site in Huntington Beach? A We've been talking with them about two sites, one at Edinger and Goldenwest which is on the college campus 347 and one at Goldenwest and Garfield. Q And you have not -- you're not aware of any discussions by you or Ezralow with Costco relative to coming into the crossings? A No, I'm not aware of any discussions Ezralow has had. I don't think we have had discussions with Costco regarding.-- I think they view this as being too close to their other store. Q Okay. Now, have you discussed Burlington at all with Ezralow since July 28 I think it is? A Well, yes, we had a meeting with Btirtington and Ezralow towards the end of August. Q And that was attended by you and Mr. Silver? A Yes. Q You were at the meeting for how long? A I was there for about the first hour I think. Q And who else was present? A The CEO of Burlington and then two other gentlemen, Randy and -- I forget their other names -- and Doug Gray and Ezralow. Q Prior to that meeting, did you have any discussions with Ezralow? A Not that I specifically recall. Other than getting ready for that meeting. Q What did you do to get ready for that meeting? 348 6 (Pages 345 to 348) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 MR. SHIPOW: I'm going to object. I believe that that 2 was the settlement meeting. 3 THE WITNESS: It was. 4 MR. SHIPOW: I'm going to object. As far as I know 5 that meeting was protected by a written settlement 6 agreement among all the parties. 7 MR. TUCHMAN: I agree, but I'm asking him what he did 8 to prepare for the meeting. 9 MR. SHIPOW: It doesn't matter whether it's in 10 preparation for or actual attendance at that meeting. That t0 It meeting was held solely under the guise of a settlement 11 12 discussion and is specifically protected again by a written 12 13 agreement between the parties. 13 14 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 14 15 Q When was the last time you had any conversation 15 16 with anyone from Ezralow? 16 17 A Let's see. Today is Monday. We had our weekly 17 18 negotiations last week on Thursday. 18 19 Q Those are every Thursday? 19 20 A Every Thursday. 20 21 Q Since July 28, have you been meeting with the 21 22 Ezralow people every Thursday? 22 23 A Probably pretty much, depending on if I'm in town 23 24 or out of town or if a meeting needs to be rescheduled. 24 25 Q What happened at the last meeting? 25 349 t A Let's see, last meeting we were going over 2 language proposed in the participation agreement, talking 3 about timing to complete the 33433 report and other 4 documents to move the OPA forward to a public hearing. 5 Let's see, that was pretty much the gist of the meeting. 6 Q You mentioned there was a 33433 report discussing 7 when it was to be completed and other documents, what were 8 these other documents? 9 A You have to have a reuse appraisal and a summary 9 10 of the disposition and development agreements. And talked 10 11 about dratting the legal notice that would have to go into 11 12 the paper to set the date for the joint public heating. 12 13 What other documents? Those are pretty much the documents 13 14 that are required to consider the owner participation 14 15 agmemenL 15 16 Q Has a target date been set for when you want to 16 17 have this joint hearing? 17 18 A Well, as soon as we know we have a signed 18 19 disposition and development agreement, we'll get the legal 19 20 notice to the newspaper and then it will occur, you know, 20 21 depending on that time and our council meetings hopefully 21 22 October or November at the latest, so — 22 23 Q Are you trying to complete this before the 23 24 election? ' 24 25 A Specifically before the election, no, not 25 350 necessarily. But you know, considering we've been trying to get it on an agenda since May, June, July originally, we gave ourselves 60 days to negotiate it it's been longer than that. Q Do you have a date in mind that you want to set if for? A Hopefully, it would be sometime in a council meeting in October. So, you know — Q Now, are you using you said you need a summary of the disposition — a summary of the DDA? A Of the OPA. Sorry. Q You re using them interchangeably? A Right. Some transactions is a DDA some is OPA. In this instance, it's an owner participation agreement. Q You mentioned reuse appraisal, what is that? A Again, that's one of the — a reuse appraisal is where, in effect, the — our consultant Keyser, Marston establishes that given the restrictions on the property that are imposed under the owner participation agreement what is the value of the interest being conveyed by the agency if there is any or with the conditions, covenants, and restrictions we put In place such as on land use and those types of things. Q Is the agency providing any assets or land to this project? 351 A May or may not be. That hasn't been determined yet. It could be. You know, quite often we also acquire an Interest in the property in the forms of conditions, covenants, and restrictions. So that is also addressed in the 33433 report, the impact of those on the property. Q When you say — you said two other things, draft legal notice and summary of — and it really should be OPA is the summary just something that is put in the agenda. Why do you need a summary? A It's required under state law. So, yes, it is something that goes to the council. Q What other documents did you discuss that need to be drafted whether they're for the OPA or not? A Those are pretty much the documents that need to be done this is the topic of the meeting. Q Who else was present last Thursday? A Let's see: Q I'm sorry. Which I believe was September 7th. A Brian Ezralow, Jim Hughes, Rebecca Casey — I forget her new married name, it's in the transcript somewhere — Mark Pickel. Q Seidel, isn't it? A Seidel would be Rebecca Casey -Seidel or something like that. Then myself, Guster An, Murray Cane, and Jim Rabe. I think that was it. 352 7 (Pages 349 to 352) , JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q How long did the meeting last? A Let's we, ob, about — I got there about 20 minutes late, so it finished just before 3:00 o'clock. So it was about an hoar and 10 minutes by the time I arrived. Q What else was discussed at this meeting? A Basically what I outlined there they spent a lot of time going over. Afterwards, I think, Murray and Jim spent time going over some language changes to the owner participation agreement. We had a few business points we still had to discuss while I was there. Q When you say "him," you mean Jim Hughes? A Jim Hughes, yeah. Q What business points? A Particular business points? Generally, I can describe them. We were talking about — MR. SHIPOW: I'm going to object as calling for information that's the subject of confidential business negotiations and would constitute proprietary information. MR. TEPPER: I would join in that objection. You can discuss general business terms without getting to the particularity. THE WITNESS: We were focused -- a lot of it had to do with as described previously anticipated developer will advance all the costs associated with the project. We will 353 repay them that gap -- an amount that is defined as a gap over a period of time from project based revenues. One of the options we have is to issue community's facility district bonds to repay that as a lump sum early on. And we were discussing some of the terms associated with formation of the community facility's district and how that would work. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q Anything else? A Not that I specifically recall. Q Was there any disagreement at that meeting? A Oh, sure. There is always disagreement. That's why we were still discussing the points. Q Now, besides the advance of the cost of the repayment of moneys with respect tatee gap, were there any other points of contention? A An exact form of guarantees for project completion. Let's see -- Q You wanted it stronger, they wanted it weaker? A Certainly. Q Okay. Anything else? A Not that I recall specifically. Q Well, do you recall anything generally? A No, not -- I'm -- those were the main topics of discussion. 354 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 Q Did you discuss Burlington at that meeting? 2 A We discussed a follow up to our prior meeting, 3 yes. 4 Q And what does that the follow — 5 A To the settlement meeting we had had. 6 Q Okay. And did you discuss anything besides the 7 settlement at that meeting? 8 A No. 9 •• Q What was said regarding the settlement? 10 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for information that is 11 protected by the specific terms of the letter agreement 12 that was reached between party as well as by the general 13 provisions of the Evidence Code and on behalf of Ezralow 1 14 would request that the witness not answer these questions. 15 MR. TEPPER: I join the objection. Don't answer them. 16 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 Q What was discussed regarding Burlington that did 18 not concern the settlement discussions as of September 7th? 19 A Nothing. 20 Q Now, the last meeting that you had, did you have 21 a meeting on Thursday August 31? 22 A Probably. I don't recall specifically. 23 Q Do you know what how long the meeting tasted? 24 A They're scheduled an hour and a half So 25 typically, they run that or a little bit less, 355- 1 Q What was discussed at that meeting? 2 A Same kinds of things. We were working on the 3 owner participation agreement terms. 4 Q Was any progress made between the 9-31 meeting 5 and the 9-7 meeting? 6 A I believe so. Because Murray Cane and Jim Hughes 7 tend to, you know, talk about the more legal -oriented 8 points and drafting of language. So, you know, when we 9 usually come back, there is a red line version that 10 addresses the changes that have been made in the interim. 11 Q What was discussed on August 31 besides the OPA 12 terms? 13 A I don't recall specifically. 14 Q Was Burlington discussed at that meeting? 15 A I think, again, probably just in the context we 16 had our meeting with Mr. Nesley and we just discussed 17 generally how that went. 18 Q Anything besides the settlement discussions? 19 A No, not that I recall 20 Q Did you have a meeting on Thursday August 24? 21 A Without having my calendar in front, of me — I 22 think we had the last few meetings. Sometimes they end up 23 being cancelled, but I don't recall specifically if that 24 one had -- if we had that one. 25 Q I can tell you since the 28th, there has been Mf 8 (Pages 353 to 356) )ILIO St ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 . )AVID C. BIGGSr VOL.3, 09.11.00- BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 August 3, August 10, August 17, August 24. Are you aware if you had five meetings in August or four? A I'd have to go back and check. You know, depends. Sometimes I'm out of town. I may not always attend them. Sometimes I schedule conflicts. I didn't bring - I only have my future calendar with me. Q Was there a meeting on August 3? A If there were meetings on those dates, it would have been the same general tone and tender we've been working on the owner participation agreement either reviewing specific drafts or specific deal terms. Mostly related to things, for example, schedule performance issues, you know, when are they going to start construction that was a topic of discussion at one of the meetings. When would they start demolition, what would be - what would be completion kind of things. Usually those are crafted in 24 months after they start. Those kinds of 19 dates. 20 Q Have you determined or discussed when demolition 21 will commence? 22 A Yes. 23 Q When is that? 24 A I don't recall specifically. I think if you - 25 well, maybe it is - it's either scheduled to be between 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 357 150 to 180 days after the OPA is approved. I don't recall the final number we settled on. Q Are you aware of any decision that has been made to condemn At Burlington's interest? A No decision has been made yet. Q Are you aware of any recommendation and that you as a director of economic development department will come up with with respect to the disposition of Burlington? A Not at this point in time: Q Do you believe that it is likely that a condemnation proceeding will commence? A Well, I don't know. I hope Ezralow and Burlington can still work something out. It depends on the exact scope of development the developer opts to pursue. Q Do you mean that in general terms in terms of what they're going to pursue or what t-hey're pursuing with Burlington? A . Well. I think they're probably related, you know, we've been looking at, you know, in effect, three alternatives. One which has Burlington and Wards staying. One which has Wards staying. And one that's a complete redevelopemeat of the center. And they all result in very different kinds of centers with different revenue 24 generations, so -- 25- Q In your gap analysis, is there more of a gap with 358 1 neither of those retailers remaining? 2 A Really, it doesn't change from - well, actually, 3 it does potentially change whether or not Wards is 4 included. Because, you know, Wards encompasses such a 5 large additional land area, yes, there is contemplated 6 there will be a two tearing whether or not the Wards parcel 7 is incorporated. 8 Q So, in other words, if you take out Wards, 9 meaning, condemn it or purchase the land or somehow acquire 10 the land for the redevelopement, that makes a larger gap? 11 A Yes. 12 Q The same is not correct with respect to 13 Burlington, is that correct? 14 A True. 15 Q Okay. At what point will there be a decision 16 made whether Burlington and Wards remain, option one; 17 option two, Wards only remain; or that neither of those two 18 remain? 19 A It depends. You know, part of - again, we're 20 still hopeful that Ezralow will be able to negotiate with 21 the two parties and - so, you know, it could happen any 22 point after - it could happen at any point In time after 23 the OPA is approved up until, you know, some number of, you 24 know, many months later. It doesn't have to be decided-, 25 right away. So it's fairly - the OPA is fairly 359 1 open-ended in that regard. 2 Q What is your current status with your discussions 3 with Wards? 4 A I haven't really had any. We have litigation 5 pending with them. There is a settlement conference, I 6 think, coming up sometime soon, so - 7 Q Wards sued you? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Do you know when that happened? 10 A It was within 30 days of the specific plans being 11 approved, so I think that would be a month ago. I don't 12 know the specific dates: 13 Q Have you had discussions with Ezralow regarding 14 how to handle the Wards situation? 15 A How to handle the Wards situation? 16 Q Yes. 17 A Same thing. We encourage them to be talking to 18 Wards to see if they can't, you know, acquire Wards or if 19 that's what they would like to do. But, no, not 20 specifically. 21 Q Okay. Have you ever spoken to Barbara Zachary? 22 A Yes. 23 Q What have you said to Barbara Zachary? 24 A Well, Barbara Zachary is the appraiser that has 25 been retained, I think, to appraise both some of the Ward 360 9 (Pages 357 to 360) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - r.. I -- the interest of the Ward's parcel and the parcel that 2 Ezralow that Burlington has. 3 Let's see. Not too much, you know, my timing — 4 we had, you know, get her under contract. Gus is the main 5 liaison with them. 6 7 8 9 l0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Let's see. What else have I talked to Barbara about specifically? Just need to get the appraisals completed There is an issue about access, I think they're aware in regard to the Burlington property. So I think she's talked with Mr. Tepper, Mr. Cane about that. I think there is going to be a hearing on that I think the end of September. MR. TEPPER: Well, I think that's -- we don't know when that hearing is. THE WITNESS: All right, then. And so nothing very general with Barbara as far as the project. Mostly need to get the appraisal done in a timely manner. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q Do you need -- as the director of economic development department, do you need to have Burlington appraised? A Again, as we talked last time around this is a question you asked before, so, you know, if you have anything, new I would be happy to answer that. 1 Q As you sit here today, do you have a value of the 2 Burlington leasehold? 3 A No. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24: 25 361 Q Has anybody told you what the value of the Burlington leasehold is? A No. Q Have you discussed with Jim Hughes bonus value? A With Jim Hughes bonus value? Q Yes. A No, not with Jim Hughes. Q Who have you discussed bonus value with? A With Murray Cane. Q Besides Murray Cane anyone else? A No, not that I can recall _ Q Have you discussions as to who is entitled to the bonus value of the Burlington lease if there were a condemnation? A You know, we discussed generally the idea of bonus value. Again, I haven't seen the Burlington lease myself. I haven't even looked at it, so I don't know if this particular instance who would get bonus value. So, no, I don't recall any specific discussions as to who might have the bonus value if there is any. Q Do you know what bonus value is? A Generally. 362 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 Q Would you please tell me what your understanding 2 is of it. 3 A Well, if, for example,, either a property owner or 4 a lessee, depending on which way it runs, has, for example, 5 a lease that's well below what market rate might be on a 6 leased premise, then sort of it can be described as a bonus 7 value. Meaning, that, you know, they can conceivably, if 8 they're leasing it for a dollar a square foot and in the 9 market it's $4 depending on the length of the term and 10 their ability to sign and sublet, you know, it may create a 11 bonus in the marketplace. 12 Q Are you, as the director of economic development 13 department, aware that Ezralow has contended that in the 14 event there is an eminent domain proceeding that they will 15 try and get the bonus value? 16 A No. 17 Q Have you been asked by Ezralow or anyone, as the 18 director of economic development department for the City of 19 Huntington Beach, to proceed in the direction to condemn 20 the Burlington lease so as to effectuate in elimination of 21 bonus value to Burlington? 22 A No. 23 Q Have you had discussions with anyone from Ezralow 24 relative to who was entitled to bonus value upon 25 condemnation of that lease? 363 1 A Not specifically, no. 2 Q Have you had a conversation generally? 3 A With anyone from Ezralow? 4 Q Yes. 5 A No.. 6 Q Have you had a conversation with anyone other 7 than Mr. Cane's firm? 8 A Not that I recall. 9 Q Are you aware, with regard of who was entitled to 10 the bonus value upon that lease, that there is a there 11 bonus value involved? 12 A Not necessary. Well, I haven't assessed it 13 particularly, so, no. 14 Q Has anyone told you what the value of that bonus 15 value is? 16 A No, not that I recall 17 Q With respect to Barbara Zachary, what is her 18 assignments? Do you understand it? 19 A WeB, she's appraising the parcel on which upon 20 which Burlington sits, and then she's also appraising the 21 Ward's parcel. 22 Q When you say "appraise," what do you mean? Do 23 you mean the structure? the land? the bonus value? 24 goodwill? 25 A I couldn't tell you specifically. No, I don't 364 - 10 (Pages 361 to 364) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON think she's doing goodwill, You don't do goodwill until you know whether or not someone can be relocated or, you know, the potential claim for goodwill. So I know she's not doing goodwill. The exact components of her appraisal. I haven't given her that level of specific direction whether Gas has or whether Murray Cane has I don't know offhand. 8 Q Was Barbara Zachary from the Dohn Company they 9 were hired by the redevelopment agency; is that correct? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And then there is this other outfit I think they 12 do F and E, is that Donahue Novak? 13 A Yes. 14 15 16 l7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q And they were hired by the redevelopment agency? A Yes. Q And in fact they have been hired? A Yes, I believe so. Q And their assignment is what? A To appraise fixtures and equipment associated with the Wards' parcel and the parcel upon which Burlington sits. Q Have you been allowed access to the Wards parcel? A I don't know offhand. Q Now, we were talking about the'meetings in August, are you able to tell me if you had five meetings in 365 August? A No, not without looking at my calendar. Q Were there four meetings? A I don't recall specifically. Q Did you speak to Mr. Selefski regarding the Burlington suit in the last month? A In the last month probably, yes. Q What did you say to him? A I don't recall specifically. Mostly, again, we were just talking about what being deposed was like. Q What did he say about that? A Pardon? Q What did he say about that? A Oh, I calling to him before he came up, so — Q Okay. What did Mr. Selefski say? A You know that he didn't think he was going to be of mach help, so — Q Anything else? A. No.._ Q. Have you talked to him since his deposition? A Just in passing. Q What did he say? A He didn't think he was much help, so — Q I want you to -- did you discuss Exhibit 7 with Mr. Selefski since his deposition? 1 A Since his deposition? 2 Q Yes. 3 A No, not that I can recall 4 Q Did you ever ask Mr. Selefski who typed up 5 Exhibit 7? 6 A No, not that I recall. I remember we discussed 7 it in my deposition. 8 Q Yes, we did. Since your last deposition, have 9 you determined who typed up Exhibit 7? 10 A No. Not any more than what I was able to talk 11 about last time. 12 Q Since July 28th, have you determined who authored 13 Exhibit 7? 14 A No, I don't recall. 15 Q I want you to take a look at Exhibit 216 that I'm 16 looking at at page 1. I'm looking at certain numbers 17 here. It says that number three -- it starts off 18 Paragraph 3, do you see that? 19 A What page are you on? 20 Q It's designated page 1, but it's essentially 21 page — 22 A Not the numbered paragraph page 3. 23 Q Yeah. 24 A Okay. Sorry. Third paraf►�pk 25 Q It says, "'ibis Plan is a compilation and 367 1 continuation of the Redevelopment Plans for the constituent 2 Projects and will amend the preexisting Redevelopment Plans 3 as follows:" 4 Then if goes to number three, "Increase the 5 dollar limit on the amount of indebtedness that may be 6 outstanding at any one time." 7 What does that mean? 8 A Well, each redevelopment plan has a cap on the 9 amount of bonded indebtedness that can be incurred and this 10 increase the limits on that in an overall capacity in the 11 merged project area. 12 Q Now, when it was increased was that increased on 13 a per location basis or increased for all five? 14 A Increased for the entire merged project area. 15 Q And do you know what dollar limit is? 16 A Let's see if we go in the plan it will say in 17 here $275 million outstanding at any one point in time. 18 Q Would you please direct me to the page? 19 A Sure. Page 27 — enumerated 27 at the bottom, 20 Paragraph A., 21 Q How much of that has been used up, if any? 22 A We only have currently outstanding bond 23 indebtedness I want to say of about 20 to $25 million. 24 Q So you have a lot of room then? 25 A Yes. 366 1 % 1 368 11 (Pages 365 to 368) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - A t Q Of the other projects, have the other projects 1 2 been redeveloped the other four locations? 2 3 A When you say "the other four locations"? 3 4 Q Yes. What I mean by that is Yorktown, lake, 4 5 Talbert, Beach? 5 6 A The project in this term refers to project areas 6 7 which are relatively large geographic areas and there have 7 8 been — are any of them completely redeveloped, no, have 8 9 there been individual redevelopment projects meaning an 9 10 actual development talting place, yes, but none of them are 10 11 completed redevelopment project areas. 11 12 Q Is the redevelopment that's proposed for the 12 13 Huntington Center for the entire project area? 13 14 A No. The project area is greater than that that 14 15 encompasses the Huntington Center site. 15 16 Q Now, it says, number five, on a selective basis 16 17 extend the time frame. Now, I think you have the right to 17 18 proceed under eminent domain for how many years? 18 19 A Would have renewed that for 12 years from the 19 20 date this amendment was done. 20 21 Q Okay. Was there an environmental impact report 21 22 that was prepared in conjunction with the redevelopment 22 23 plan for the Huntington Beach Redevelopment Project which 23 24 is Exhibit 216? 24 25 A Yes, there was. 25 369 1 Q And do you have a copy of that at city hall? 1 2 A Yes, we do. 2 3 Q And if I just called the city clerk, she could 3 4 give that to us; right? 4 5 A Yes. 5 6 Q Has it been determined whether an environmental 6 7 impact report has to be prepared for the SP 13? 7 8 MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Calls for a legal 8 9 conclusion. 9 10 MR. TEPPER: Object to the specific plan that was 10 11 adopted. 11 12 MR. TUCHMAN: Yes. 12 13 THE WITNESS: Whatever environmental review that was 13 14 done at the time action was taken when the council approved 14 15 the specific plan, I don'trecall specifically how the 15 16 planning staff processed it, so — 16 17 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 17 18 Q So you're saying refer to the document that was 18 19 the approval to determined whether there is an EIR needed 19 20 or not? 20 21 A The staff report would have said or there would 21 22 have been some determination made at that point in time. 22 23 Q Has anybody told you that the environmental 23 24. impact report which was made in conjunction with the 24 25 redevelopment plan for the Huntington Beach Redevelopment 25 370 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON project was sufficient to redevelop the areas under specific plans? A Generally, we do — we generally do approve specific levels of development using the redevelopment EIR as the environmental clearance for that. You know, each project is evaluated separately, so I don't know if that's what the plan is shedding light on I don't recall at this point Q Whose job is it at the city or the redevelopment agency to determine whether a separate EIR other than the redevelopment EIR must be done for each project located in a redevelopment area? A The ultimate decision lies with the planning staff and ultimately Howard Selefsld the planning director, but we do have input into that. Q I want you to take a look at page 5, please, of Exhibit 216. And it says section Roman numeral number five "Redevelopment Plan Goals." Do you see the bullet points? A Yes. Q Okay. It says, "Eliminate and prevent the spread of conditions of blight including" — and there is a number of items — "underutilized properties and deteriorating buildings, incompatible and uneconomic land use* deficient infrastructure and facilities, obsolete structures, and 371 other economic deficiencies in order to create a more favorable environment for commercial, office, industrial, residential, and recreational development. Is there any blight at the Huntington Center? MR. TEPPER: Objection. That calls for a legal conclusion. I believe with respect to the adoption of the merged redevelopment project in 1996 all areas included within that project are conclusively presumed to be blighted as of the date and that goes to Health and Safety Code Section 33500 and 33501. THE WITNESS: And that would have been my answer. MR. TEPPER: I'm sorry. That calls for a legal conclusion. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q Can you tell me what conditions of blight exist at the Huntington Center? MR. TEPPER: Objection. Relevance. That's conclusively presumed. THE WITNESS: I think you can go back to the report on the plan as well when this plan amendment merger was done there were things specifically cited at that point in time, so -- BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q Are there underutilized properties and deteriorating buildings at Huntington Center? 372 12 (Pages 369 to 372) 7ILIO Bit ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 )AVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00r BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON I A Yes, I believe so. 2 Q Okay. What buildings are deteriorated? 3 A Well, I think basically almost the entire center. 4 I couldn't go by each and every one. Mostly the mail is 5 vacant. The Broadway building has been vacant since 1996 I 6 think Partially demolished. There are other buildings 7 that haven't had tenants in them for four or live, six 8 years so. During that time that would be additional 9 deterioration. l0 Q What written evidence or reports exist to show I that any part of the Huntington Center is deteriorated? 12 A I just mentioned the report that was prepared 13 when this plan amendment was approved. 14 Q What is that report called? 15 A It's called a plan report; right? 16 MR. TEPPER: Final report. 17 THE WITNESS: Final report to the city council on the 18 proposed redevelopment plan. 19 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 20 Q That's also available at the city clerk's office? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Do you know what the final report to the city 23 council relied upon to determine if there were deteriorated 24 buildings located at the Huntington Center? 25 A I don't recall specifically. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 373 Q Any document or evidence that would support the redevelopment plan -- the Huntington Beach redevelopement Plan to show that there was some kind of blight, would be contained in this final report; correct? A And all the proceedings before the council and agency board at the time the plan was adopted. So, yes, in 1996, as Mr. Tepper indicated, it was irrefutably entered into the record that blight doesn't exist in the area. •• Q Now, are there any incompatible and uneconomic land uses at the Huntington Center? MR. SHIPOW: I'm going to object again to this series of questions. This lawsuit at most these questions have to do with the lawsuit that is pending between Burlington and the City of Huntington Beach. I think this is just plaintiff's way to get discovery in that case. MR: TEPPER: Thank you. MR. TUCHMAN: You can answer the question. MR. TEPPER: No. It's irrelevant. And it's the subject of a conclusive presumption so please move on. MR. TUCHMAN: I'm going to get answers to these questions one way or the other. And I'm entitled to facts from this witness as the director of economic development department as to what facts exist. I understand that he's saying conclusively presumed, but I think he knows of a few 374 I cases out there. And that's not going to fly. I need -- 2 MR. TEPPER: Excuse me. There are no cases that will 3 have that fly. 4 MR. TUCHMAN: Okay. 5 MR. TEPPER: In fact, there were two decided in the 6 last two months that would say that wouldn't fly, so -- 7 MR. SHIPOW: In addition, you're only entitled to 8 facts that relate to the claims in this case or that lead 9 to the discovery of admissible evidence relating to claims 10 in this case and the determinations in this redevelopment 11 plan have nothing to do with this case as far as I know. 12 MR. TUCHMAN: To respond to your comments, Mr. Shipow, 13 certainly if there is no blight at the property that would 14 happen to be a problem with your client's motivation or if 15 they're trying to manufacture blight that also goes to 16 motivation; 17 MR. TEPPER: With respect to the issue of blight 18 that's determined and there is no way to open that up as a 19 matter of law. 20 MR. SHIPOW: And it's not determined by Ezralow 21 anyway. 22 MR. TEPPER: So you're about four years too late to 23 challenge the issue of blight with respect to any property 24 within that project area 25 MR. TUCHMAN: I understand what you're saying I 375 1 still want answers to these questions. 2 THE WITNESS: Refer you to the plan. The plan report 3 outlines that. 4 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 5 Q Are you aware if Burlington falls under any of 6 these categories? 7 MR. SHIPOW: Same objections. 8 THE WITNESS: I haven't specifically evaluated it. 9 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 10 " Q Are you aware of any writings which indicate that 11 the Burlington store is subject to any type of blight 12 including deteriorating buildings, incompatible and 13 uneconomic land uses, deficient infrastructure and 14 facilities, obsolete structures and other economic 15 deficiencies? 16 THE WITNESS: I just answered the question. 17 MR. TEPPER: Objection, relevance. That's beyond -- 18 it's just not relevant. Move on: 19 MR. TUCHMAN: You're instructing him not to answer? 20 MR. TEPPER: Yes. 21 MR. TUCHMAN: All right. 22 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 23. Q Are you aware if Burlington is the maximum use of 24 its structure? 25 A If Burlington is the maximum use of its 376 13 (Pages 373 to 376) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 structure? 1 2 Q Yes. 3 A I would have to say probably not since they 3 4 probably only occupy about one and a half -- about half the 4 5 structure. It's a three-story former JC Penny building 5 6 that's only occupied — I think Burlington only occupies at 6 7 four and a half. So I think it's just a matter of half the 7 8 building being empty. It's probably not the maximum use of 8 9 that particular building. 9 10 Q Has the city performed any type of economic 10 11 analysis of the Burlington store to determine if that 11 12 store, that structure, could be better used? 12 13 A That particular structure? 13 14 Q Yes. 14 15 A No, I don't believe so. Not at this point. 15 16 Q Are you aware of any deficiencies at the 16 17 Burlington store in terms of structure? 17 18 A Physical structure? 18 19 Q Yes. 19 20 A Again, we haven't made that assessment. 20 21 Q Have you determined what higher and better use 21 22 the Burlington store could have? 22 23 A The Burlington store? 23 24 Q Yes. 24 25 A No, we haven't undertaken an analysis of that 25 377 1 level on a store -by -store basis. 1 2 Q Why don't you take a look at page 6 under 2 3 redevelopment actions. At number nine it says, "Preparing 3 4 building sites and constructing necessary off site 4 5 improvements." 5 6 Number 9 is at the bottom of the page. Is that 6 7 to be performed by the city or a developer? 7 8 A This is looking specifically at actions the 8 9 agency can either do or facilitate. 9 10 Q So you have the -- there is the power to do it -- 10 11 withdraw. 11 12 Number 7, it says, "Acquiring real property by 12 13 purchase, lease, gift, grant, request, devise, or any other 13 14 lawful means." 14 15 Is Burlington inconsistent with the plan that has 15 16 been submitted? 16 17 MR. TEPPER: Objection. Ambiguous. I don't 17 18 understand that question. 18 19 Do you understand that question? 19 20 THE WITNESS: No. 20 21 BY MR. TUCHMAN: 21 22 Q Is it consistent or inconsistent with the city's 22 23 redevelopment of that area to acquire Burlington? 23 24 A It is consistent? 24 25 Q Yes. 25 378 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON A Well, I can answer the question more generally if You like because we haven't -- we're not at the point of looking at Burlington in particular. But in the purpose of Pursuing redevelopment, sometimes you —just to illustrate. You can — for example you can acquire Property in a redevelopment project bees that is needed to facilitate overall redevelopment without that one particular use itself being an undesirable or you know substandard structure or things. There have been times where if you acquire a property because it's key to an overall broader goal to eliminate blight in the overall area, you know, you don't do Won the basis of each individual parcel having to demonstrate one or all or more symptoms of blight. Q Take a look at page 8, please. At the bottom paragraph it says, "To the extent required by law, the Agency shall not acquire real report on which an existing building is to be continued on its present site and in present form and use without the consent of the owner, unless." Do you understand what that means? A It means we can't acquire an existing building to have the building remain and just turn it over to a third party. Q Okay. Thank you. Take a look at page 9; 374' please. It says, "The Agency desires participation in redevelopment activities by as many owners and business tenants as possible." Do you see that? A Yes. Q What have you done as the director of the economic development department to ensure that this policy is carried out, meaning, Burlington is involved? A Well, that's not what it means. It means that -- well -- one, to answer the question, we went through the owner participation process and Burlington submitted a proposal. They were not selected to be the owner participant developer of the site. Beyond that, there are things that we suggested to Burlington in the scope of our settlement meeting that would have resulted in their reincorporation of the project area. Q Anything else? A And of course, encouraging Ezralow to see what they can work out as the selected owner participant to develop the site overall. Q Have you determined whether Burlington is entitled to reentry preference? A Well, certainly any business is entitled to reentry preference. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean in the mail site. It could be in the project area 380 14 (Pages 377 to 380) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 ')AVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.OQ BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 somewhere. So any business is entitled to reentry preference. So we'll work with them to the extent possible to have them reenter the project area. Q Why don't you take a look, please, at page 16. Look at."Parchase and Development Documents." What purchase and development documents other than those that you've testified today is the agency contemplating? A Well, that would be the owner participation agreement. Q Any other documents other than you testified? A No, not from the agency's perspective. Q What CC & Rs do you anticipate will be necessary in this redevelopment plan? A Well, we always have in this — I'm sorry. You said redevelopment plan? Q You were going to execute documents and leases, you also said there will be some CC & Rs that you will want to be recorded pertaining to that property and now I'm asking specifics to what CC & Rs? A Okay. We just referred to the redevelopment plan the existing redevelopment plan. Q Yes, I understand. A You're talking about in the case of the owner participation agreement on this site what would be the CC & Its? 381 Q Correct. I'm actually looking at the next page. A Right. There is nondiscrimination, maintenance levels, typical types of covenant and restrictions that we have in our agreements that, you know, they'll meet the zoning, that they won't permit any nonconforming rises. Those types of things. Q Why don't you take a look, please, at page 20. At page -- paragraph 5 or number five it says, "Limitations on Type, Size and Height of Buildings." It says, "Limits on building intensity, type, size, and height, shall be established in accordance with the provisions of the General Plan and the zoning ordinances, as they now exist or are hereafter amended." Does the specific plan that's submitted on a project basis act to amend the general plan with respect to a specific like this? At No. Weft; the general plan on this site requires that a specific plan be prepared so you know that probably would be a better question for Howard or a planner to . answer. So is it — I don't know technically if it's an amendment of the general plan or not. The general plan requires the specific plan so I don't know if it's considered an amendment of the general plan or not. Q As far as you know does the Burlington structure that exists there today violate the general plan just in 382 1 terms of type, size, and height? 2 A I don't believe that it does. The —you know, 3 the specific plan has a requirement that if there are ever 4 to be any remodeling of the building and again this would 5 be better for Howard to answer that it would have to comply 6 with the specific plan as far as being brought up into 7 conformance with the specific plan requirements I don't 8 think there is anything such as height or massing or 9 anything that's not to the_specific plan or the general 10 plan. 11 Q Okay. Thank you. We're done with that exhibit. 12 By the way, with respect to Exhibit 216, did you assist in 13 its preparation? 14 A I reviewed and approved W I don't recall if I 15 specifically — I guess "assistance," that means 16 preparation. It was drafted by the outside consultant. I 17 did review and approve what was included. 18 Q When the 33433 report is prepared — is Jim Rabe 19 from your offices or is he from Kaiser Marston? 20 A Kaiser Marstom. 21 Q And so Rabe he's not an employees, he's a 22 consultant from KM; is that correct? 23 A . Yes. 24 Q Have you spoken to Mr. Frank Cota in the past 25 month? 383 1 A Frank Cota? 2 Q Yes. 3 A I don't recall who that is 4 Q Have you spoken with Jayna Morgan in the past 5 month pertaining to Huntington Center? 6 A No. 7 Q Have you had any discussions with anyone at the 8 city since July 28 regarding the June 5th memo dated June 5 9 which is Exhibit 7? 10 A No, not that I can recall. 11 Q Has anyone told you about any petitions that were 12 signed by residents of the City of Huntington Beach? 13 A Yea: 14 Q And where did you get that information from? 15 A From someone at Burlington spoke at a council 16 meeting: 17 Q And are you aware of how many signatures there 18 are? 19 A No. 20 Q Are you aware that there is at least 10,000 21 signatures? 22 A No. 23 Q Does that concern you? 24 A No..- 25 Q What steps will the city have to take if it wants 384 - 15 (Pages 381 to 384) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - 1 to raise sales taxes to fill the gap? 1 2 A Nothing. 2 3 Q That has to be done by? 3 4 A It's based on the amount of sales that occur on 4 5 the site not by an increase in the tax rate. 5 6 Q You were talking about at the last deposition you 6 7 mentioned somebody named Paul, but you didn'tremember his 7 8 last name, at a meeting that you had. 8 9 Do you remember Paul's last name? 9 10 A Well, no. Is it in reference to the leasing 10 11 person? 11 12 Q Yes. 12 13 A No, I don't recall Paul's last name. 13 .14 Q You call him the leasing guy? 14 15 A Yeah. 15 16 Q Is it Paul -- Pm sorry. 16 17 A He works for Doug Gray? 17 18 Q That's Paul Bernard? 18 19 A I don't recall. 19 20 Q When is the last time you spoke with Paul 20 21 Bernard? 21 22 A It hasn't been for a considerable period of time. 22 23 Q Who did you get the information on with respect 23 24 to the letters of intent? 24 25 A From — gosh, I can't remember specifically. 25 385 1 Either Doug Gray or maybe Brian Ezralow. It could have I 1 2 also been Jim Rabe. He's been talking with them about 2 3 their leasing efforts. 3 4 Q Has the city or the redevelopment agency been 4 5 provided with any written information relative to 5 6 perspective tenants? 6 7 A No. 7 8 Q Has a determination as of today, September 11, 8 9 2000, been made as to whether Burlington Coat Factory fits 9 10 into the concept of the redevelopment agency for Huntington 10 11 Center? 11 12 A It depends on what concept ultimately is pursued. 12 13 As I said, there will be some form of redevelopment that 13 14 won't be answered until things play out. So it's really — 14 15 I can't — no, I can't actually say I believe a decision 15 16 has been made, so — 16 17 Q. And as we sit here today, has the City of 17 18 Huntington Beach in the redevelopment agency determined 18 19 taking control of the tenant mix? 19 20 A Taking control of the tenant mix? 20 21 Q Yes. 21 22 A That would never be our -- we would never have 22 23 that level of control. We can indicate the type and 23 24- quality of a center that we would like. I'm trying to 24 25 remember — I don't even think the OPA contemplates 25 386 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON specific approvals of tenants. It's more a general description of the type and quality but I would have to go back and check. Q So it's up to Ezralow? A Pardon me? Q It's up to Ezralow? A As far as ultimately which tenants go in place, you know, we as the city can make the determination as to what kind of center we want and describe the quality and characteristic of that center, so — Q As of right now it's up to Ezralow as to who the tenants will be at that shopping center; is that correct? MR. SHIPOW: Objection. Asked and answered. MR. TUCHMAN: I'm not sure it was answered. MR. SHIPOW: I'm sure it was. MR. TEPPER: You can answer it. THE WITNESS: Can 1 answer it again? Okay. Let's see the — MR. TEPPER: Try and keep it within one sentence. THE WITNESS: Yeah, I'm going to. MR. TUCHMAN: I don't mind one sentence. THE WITNESS: It isn't the agency's discretion ultimately to decide what kind of shopping center we want developed there. And, you know, well address that through the owner participation agreement. We have to ultimately 387 decide which new tenants come into the center. I'd have to go back and double check the language but usually we try and define that more by a general descriptor of quality and characteristics of a center as opposed to specific levels of tenants you know rely on the developers for the determination that those tenants fit in the center. BY MR. TUCHMAN: Q As of today, September 11, 2000, it's up to Ezralow not the city or the redevelopment agency to say who the tenants are at the shopping center? A I don't know if that's a question of as of today as much as, you know, I think it's sort of a tiered process. First defining the kind of center we want, and then once we do that, then I think it is in their discretion, generally, as to what tenants go into it. Again, I would have to go back and check the language that we're patting in the owner participation agreement, but I don't recall as having specific approvals as to leases but I'll have to double check. Q Is there anything in the OPA or any other written documents between the City and Ezralow which precludes the existence of Burlington at the shopping center? A Which precludes the existence of Burlington? No. Q Which precludes? A No. 388 16 (Pages 385 to 388) 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 )AVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3; 09.11.00v BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 t7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19• 20 21 22 23 24 25_ Q "No"? A No: Q Okay. Now, you've had some financial reports prepared relative to the OPA and the redevelopment of Huntington Center? A The economic analysis that we've used to establish the gapping things? Q Yes. A Yes. Q Has that been completed? A No, that will be — in effect, that ends up being what is included in the 33433 report and the summary and the reuse appraisal. Q In addition to the financial report which analyzes the gap, are there other financial reports you're waiting for? A And the financial reports, no. Pretty much that will include the entire — 33433, you sort of find those are interwoven in the 33433 report, the summary, the reuse appraisal, the finances and the economics of the project are evaluated in that. Q Is there a — is this KM, Kaiser Marston, responsibility and Jim Rabe to do the financial analysis? A Yes. Q Is there someone else at his office that is doing 389 it? A You know, I don't know offhand if Jim is doing it himself. He's got a couple of associates, but I haven't spoke with anyone but Jim on it." Q Is there an extraordinary cost report or extraordinary cost exception report? A A what? Q An extraordinary cost exception report? A What is that? Q Basically is there some type of list or report relative to extraordinary costs that come up that are, unforeseen that the city will kick in more money for? A No. Q Has Ezralow asked for such a reserve? A No:, Q As of today, has any money -been deposited by Ezralow?` A We have — no, actually, no.. Q You were about so say something? A I was getting confused with another developer who put up a good faith deposit but that is at the time the owner participation agreement is entered into. Q That's on property unrelated to Huntington Center? A Unrelated. Q When do you anticipate money will be deposited? 390 1 A Let's see. Well, the owner participation 2 agreement to the extent that they're — I'll have to double 3 check. There might be a good faith deposit contemplated 4 usually that's deposited within so many days after approval 5 the owner participation agreement, you know, if there is 6 any acquisition on the site there Is a provision that, you 7 know, they deposit money so many days after we give them 8 notices as to how mach mosey we need. . 9 For example, we're asking them to start to pick 10 up our legal costs in litigation that will occur after the 11 owner participation agreement Is approved if they agree to 12 that, so, then we would start to ask for money for that. 13 So the time from contemplated sometime after we would ask 14 them after the owner participation agreement is approved. 15 Q Do you have a figure as to what the good faith 16 deposit amount will be? 17 A I don't recall, no: 18 Q There is an amount that's been contemplated? 19 A No. I'd have to doable check I don't recall 20 that particularly. We don't always require good faith 21 deposits it depends on the scope and nature of the center. 22 I would just have to go back and check the draft to see it 23 it's In there or not: 24 Q Are you aware if there is one or isn't one? 25 A I don't recall specifically: 391 1 Q Okay. Now, you mentioned that you met with 2 Principal Group? 3 A The Principal Group — I think back when they 4 were first baying the mall, the Principal Group was one of 5 their financial copartners. Though I don't think that's 6 the case anymore. 7 Q Why did you meet with someone from Principal 8 Group?- 9 A Because at the time that Ezralow was looking at 10 acquiring Huntington Center — and this predates their 11 acquisition — I think they brought in both San America, 12 who remains one of their financial partners, and the 13 Principal Groups I think both were doing their due 14- diligence on what prior due acquisition of the center. 15 Q How many times have you met with Sun America? 16 A Best of my recollection, just the one time. 17 Q And that was prior to the close of escrow? 18 A Yes, I believe so. 19 Q Who from Sun America did you meet with? 20 A I don't recall offhand. 21 Q Now, you described them as two primarily lenders 22 before Principal Group and Sun America, did someone replace 23 the Principal Group? 24 A There is a second group which is — I'm not going 25 to remember their full name — Albert Ludler Group or 392 17 (Pages 389 t6 392) JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 I something like that. I don't recall. I have it in my 1 2 ofllce. I don't recall the name in particular. '- 3 Q Did you ever meet with anyone from Albert Ludler 3 4 Group? 4 5 A No. 5 6 Q Did you have a specific person you spoke with 6 7 from the Albert Ludler Group? 7 8 A I've not spoken with anyone from Albert Ludler 8 9 from the best of my recollection. 9 10 Q I may have asked you this, do you know the name 10 11 of the person you met with from Sun America? 11 12 A I don't recall. I probably have his card. 12 13 Q Was it one person or two persons? 13 14 A You know, I don't recall that far back. There 14 15 may have been more than one, but that might have been the 15 16 person with Principal Group. I don't recall if I dealt 16 17 with them separately or together. 17 18 Q The OPA has to be approved by the city council? 18 19 A And the redevelopment agency board. 19 20 Q Does it go to the planning commission first? 20 21 A No. 21 22 Q Now, when the city council meets they will also 22 23 sit as the redevelopment agency board; is that correct? 23 24 A Yes. 24 25 Q And when that action is submitted it will be an 25 393 1 RCA or RAA? 1 2 A It will be a joint RCA and RAA. 2 3 Q Has that been drafted at all? 3 4 A Not that I've seen yet. 4 5 Q Who is responsible for drafting the joint RCA and 5 6 RAA? 6 7 A Guster a.m. will be the one who will draft that. 7 8 Q And you will review it and approve it? 8 9 A Yes. 9 l0 Q Who is your contact person at Greenberg, Farrow? 10 11 A I don't have a particular contact person. I 11 12 couldn't - sometimes they've been in project meetings with 12 13 Jane James, but I don't recall particularly any of the 13 14 principals' names. 14 15 Q That's something that planning -deals with more 15 16 meaning the architect? 16 17 A Yes.. 17 18 Q Have you spoken -to Jane James regarding 18 19 Burlington in the past month? 19 20 A In the past month, no, not that I recall. 20 21 Q Did you discuss with her the lawsuit? 21 22 A The lawsuit? Which lawsuit? 22 23 Q Any of the lawsuits? 23 24 A Yes, in general, the lawsuits. 24 25 Q What was discussed? 25 394 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON A I don't recall particularly. Just in passing though we've been sued again kind of thing. Q That's with respect to Wards? A Yeah, probably the Wards is the most recent litigation, so - Q Now, did you talk to Jane James about her subpoena? A Pardon? No. I know she's been subpoenaed, but I know that through Howard Selefski. He told me you were going to subpoena Jane. Q Yes. Okay. Have you prepared any memo or written any reports pertaining to Burlington in the past month? A Any memos or any reports pertaining to Burlington in the last month? Not that I can recall. Q Have you written or prepared any reports or caused any reports to be written pertaining to Burlington? A There are things being prepared for the joint public hearing that I mentioned Gus will be drafting a staff report for that. Let's see, Jim Rabe is preparing a 33433 report, but none of that is available at this point in time. It will be available the date that the public hearing notice appears in the paper which will be - well, to the extent we use a local paper, so it's the Thursday =. about two and a half weeks - about two and a half weeks 395 prior to when the public hearing will occur. Q But you don't know the date when it will be published? A No. Q Are there any other reports or memos which you're causing to be prepared which may pertain to Burlington? A Not that I can recall. I don't believe so. Q What is the next contemplated activity besides entering into the OPA and preparing these documents pertaining to the Huntington center? A That's really it. The specific plan has been approved by the council, so it's approved barring the litigation challenge, From the development perspective, the developer will ultimately have to submit further site plan review at some point in time. I don't know when they're contemplating doing that probably not until after the owner participation agreement is approved. Really, from our perspective, everything will fail out after when and if the owner participation agreement is approved But, you know - so I can't think of any particular separate steps that would be taken or are being taken. Q Are there any study sessions, review sessions, or any other type of meetings besides your Thursday meetings 396 -1 18 (Pages 393 to 396) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 JAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3r 09.11.00' BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 1 with Ezralow that will be or are contemplated to take place 2 prior to the meeting in attempt to improve the OPA? 3 A Not that I anticipate. 4 Q I'm going to go off the record for just a 5 minute. I have the wrong memo and then well get you out 6 of here. 7 A I have 11 cities waiting for me to host them back 8 in Huntington Beach, so — 9 Q We're just about done. Well get you out of here 10 off the record. 11 (Recess taken.) 12 MR. TUCHMAN: I do not have any additional questions 13 at this time Mr. Shipow? 14 MR. SHIPOW: I don't have any questions. 15 MR. TUCHMAN: Mr. Tepper? 16 MR. TEPPER: No. 17 THE WITNESS: Then you guys can do the stipulation 18 without me. 19 (Mr. Biggs exits the room.) 20 MR. TUCHMAN: Propose that the reporter be relieved of 21 her duties under the Code with respect to maintaining the 22 original, obtaining signature; that the transcript be sent 23 to Mr. Tepper's office at Xane, Ballmer & Berkman; that a 24 cover letter accompany its transmission CC'd to myself and 25 Mr. Shipow; that Mr. Biggs will have 30 days after the 397 1 receipt of the transcript by Mr. Tepper to review it, sign 2 it under penalty of perjury within 30 days; mr. Tepper's 3 responsibility will be to forward to all counsel 4 corrections of the transcript and advise that it has been 5 signed; in addition, he will provide the original to our 6 offices and we will make it available for any proceeding in 7 this matter; that in the event that the original is not 8 signed and corrected, an unsigned uncorrected certified 9 copy can be used for all appropriate purposes in lieu of 10 the original: 11 Is that okay? 12 MR. SHIPOW: So stipulated. 13 MR. TUCHMAN: Is that okay, Mr. Tepper? 14 MR. TEPPER: So stipulated. 15 MR. TEPPER: And don't forgot this is volume 3, so 16 pick up the correct pages. 17 18 (Deposition concluded at 10.50 a.m.) 19 20 (Declaration under penalty of perjury on the 21 following page hereto.). 22 23 24 25- 398 19 (Pages 397 to 398) ]ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS . A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Abecrombie 346:19 ability 363:10 able 333:21359:20 365:25 367:10 about 330:10,20 337:20,22 338:24 344:16,20,24 347:24 348:16 350:3,11 353:2,27,4 353:16 356:7 361:7,9,11 365:24 366:10,11,13 367:11 368:23 375:22 377:4,4 381:23 384:11 385:6 386:2 390:19 395:6,25,25 397:9 accepted 339:4 341:11 access 361:9 365:22 accompany 397:24 accordance 382:11 acquire 352:2 359:9 360:18 378:23 379:5,10,17,22 acquiring 378:12 392:10 acquisition 391:6 392:11,14 acquisitions 342:19 act 382:15 action 370:14 393:25 actions 378:3,8 activities 380:2 activity 396:8 actual 334:6 342:2 349:10 369:10 actually 345:11,13 347:13 359:2 382:1 386:15 390:18 addition 375:7 389:14 398:5 additional 342:4 359:5 373:8 397:12 address 387:24 addressed 352:4 addresses 356:10- admissible 375:9 admonitions 329:13 adopted 370:11 374:6 adoption 335:11,12 372:6 advance 353:25 354:14 advice 331:5 advise 398:4 advised 333:17 after 343:11 357:18 358:1 359:22,22 391:4,7,10,13,14 396:17,20 397:25 Afterwards 353:8 again 342:10 344:1 349:12 351:16 356:15 359:19 361:23 362:19 366:9 374:12 377:20 380:24 383:4 387:17 388:16 395:2 agency 331:17 340:15 351:21,24 365:9,14 371:10 374:6 378:9 379:17 380:1 381:7 386:4,10,18 388:9 393:19,23 agency's 381:11 387:22 agenda 351:2 352:8 ago 347:14 360:11 agree 349:7 391:11 agreement 331:18,19 344:23 349:6,13 350:2,15,19 351:14 351:19 353:10 355:11356:3 357:11 381:9,24 387:25 388:18 390:22 391:2,5,11 391:14 396:18,21, agreements 350:10 382:4 ahead 337:10 338:13 Al 358:4 Albert 392:25 393:3 393:7,8 allow 344:6 allowed 365:22 almost 373:3 already 337:7,9 alternatives 358:20 always 337:17 354:12 357:5 381:14 391:20 Ambiguous 378:17 amend 368:2 382:15 amended 382:13 amendment 335:8 335:20 369:20 372:20 373:13 382:21,23 America 392:11,15 392:19,22 393:11 among 336:5 349:6 amount 340:14 341:13 354:1 368:5,9 385:4 391:16,18 analysis 336:6 338:21 340:4,22,25 341:24 358:25 377:11,25 389:6,23 analyzes 389:15 Angeles 326:25 327:5,10,14 329:2 another 390:20 answer 328:10 330:25 336:24 337:6 338:5,20,23 355:14,15 361:25 372:11 374:18 376:19 379:1 380:10 382:20 383:5 387:16,17 answered 337:7,9 338:12 376:16 386:14 387:13,14 answers 374:21 376:1 anticipate 381:12 390:25 397:3 anticipated 339:3 353:24 anybody 362:4 370:23 anymore 392:6 anyone 333:17 349:16 362:13 363:17,23 364:3,6 364:14 384:7,11 390:4 393:3,8 anything 332.16 335:15 336:22 337:3 340:21 342:8,10 354:9,21 354:23 355:6 356:18 361:25 366:18 380:17 383:8,9 388:20 anyway 375:21 anywhere 339:16 apparently 337:20 APPEARANCES 327:1 appears 395:23 appraisal 350:9 351:15,16 361:18 365:4 389:13,20 appraisals 361:7 appraise 360:25 364:22 365:19 appraised 361:22 appraiser 360:24 appraising 364:19 364:20 appropriate 398:9 approval 370:19 391:4 approvals 387:1 388:18 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON approve 371:3 383:17 394:8 approved 343:11 358:1 359:23 360:11 370:14 373:13 383:14 391:11,14 393:18 396:12,12,18,21 approximately 340:9 architect 394:16 area 359:5 368:11,14 369:13,14 371:12 374:9 375:24 378:23 379:6,12 380:16,25 381:3 areas 332:22 335:21 335:24 369:6,7,11 371:1 372:7 argue 337:21 arguments 337:13 around 361:23 arrival 337:15 arrive 339:23 arrived 339:22 340:13 353:5 asked 330:16,19 331:8 337:7 338:12 361:24 363:17 387:13 390:14 393:10 asking 349:7 381:19 391:9 assessed 364:12 assessment 377:20 asset 342:4 assets 341:16,18 342:24 351:24 assignment 335:17 365:18 assignments 364:18 assist 383:12 assistance 338:22 383:15 associated 339:1 340:11342:1 353:25 354:5 365:19 associates 325:8 326:8,24 327:3 330:22 331:9 390:3 assuming 342:12,14 attached 338:17 attempt 397:2 attend 357:6 attendance 349:10 attended 348:13 attorney 331:6 attorneys 334:12 attorney -client 332:23 341:3 August 330:2,10 Page 399 348:12 355:21 356:11,20 357:1,1 357:1,1,2,8 365:25 366:1 authored 367:12 available 331:23,24 331:25 373:20 395:21,22 398:6 Avenue 345:4 aviv 326:23 327:3,4 aware 340:21 342:23 345:7 347:18,22 348:2,5 357:2 358:3,6 361:10 363:13 364:9 376:5,10,23 377:16 384:17,20 391:24 away 359:25 a.m 325:20 326:22' 329:1 394:7 398:18 B 328:4 back 331:2 336:11 34125 342:8 356:9 357:4 3 72:19 387:3 388:2,16 39112 392:3 393:14 397:7 backed 347:12 ballmer 327:8 397;23 Barbara 360:21,23 360:24 361:6,17 364:17 365:8 Barrel 346:16 barring 396:12 based 339:13 354:2 385:4 basically 333:8 342:9 3517 373:3 390:10 basis 368:13 369:16 378:1 379:13 382:15 beach 325:4 326:4 328:8 334:7 347:23 363:19 369:5,23 370:25 374:2,15 384:12 386:18 397:8 before 326:19 336:16 350:23,25 353:3 361:24 366A4 374:5 392:22 behalf 326:18 329:5 355:13 being 329:13 330:21 334:2 338:25 )ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 ,)AVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON' 340:19 345:12 348:7 351:20 356:23 360:10 366:10 377:8 379:8 383:6 389:11 395:18 396:23 believe 330:14 338:12 349:1 352:18 356:6 358:10 365:17 372:6 373:1 377:15 383:2 386:15 392:18 396:7 below 363:5 berkman 327:8 397:23 Bernard 385:18,21 besides 354:14 355:6 356:11,18 362:13 396:8,25 best 392:16 393:9 better 377:12,21 382:19 383:5 between 336:25 339:16 349:13 355:12 356:4 357:25 374:14 388:21 beyond 376:17 380:13 biggs 325:19 326:18 327:7 328:7 329:4 329:11 330:1 337:20 397:19,25 bit 355:25 blight 371:22 372:4 372:15 374:3,8 375:13,15,17,23' 376:11 379:12,14 blighted 372:9 board 374:6 393:19 393:23 bond 333:11 368:22 bonded 368:9 bonds 354:4 bonus 362:7,8,11,16 362:19,21,23,24 363:6,11,15,21,24 364:10,11,14,23 both 360:25 392:11 392:13' bottom 368:19 378:6 379:15 Boulevard 326:24 327:4 Brian 352:19 386:1 brief 337:12 bring 357:7 broader 379:11 Broadway 373:5 brought 383:6 392:11 BRUCE 327:8 Buca 346:24 347:4 building 340:8 373:5 377:5,8,9 378:4 379:18,22,23 382:10 383:4 buildings 371:24 372:25 373:2,6,24 376:12 382:9 bullet 371:19 burlington 325:4 326:4 330:22 332:16 340:2,11 348:9,11,18 355:1 355:17 356:14 358:8,13,17,20 359:13,16 361:2,10 361:21 362:2,5,16 362:19 363:20,21 364:20 365:20 366:6 374:14 376:5,11,23,25 377:6,11,17,22,23 378:15,23 379:3 380:8,11,14,21 382:24 384:15 386:9 388:22,23 394:19 395:12,14 395:17 396:6 Burlington's 340:5 358:4 business 353:10,14 353:15,18,21380:2 380:23 381:1 buying 392:4 C 325:19 326:18 327:7 329:4 calculate 341:8 calculated 340:24 calendar 356:21 357:7 366:2 california 325:1',5 326:1,5,21,25 327:5,10,14 329:2 346:13 - call 385:14 called 329:5 370:3 ..373:14,15 calling 353:17 calls 355:10 370:8 372:5,12 came 337:14 366:14 campus 347:25 cancelled 347:14,16 356:23 Cane 352:24 356:6 361:11362:12,13 365:6 Cane's 364:7 cap 340:14 368:8 capacity 368:10 capitalization 339:4 capped 342:16,19 card 393:12 carried 380:8 carries 342:21 case 325:7 326:7 330:22,24 374:16 375:8,10,11381:23 392:6 cases 375:1,2 Casey 352:19 Casey -Seidel 352:23 categories 376:6 caused 337:21 395:17 causing 396:6 CC 381:12,17,19,25 CC'd 397:24 center 325:8 326:8 330:22 331:9 335:15,25 340:9 342:24 345:3,5,5 358:22 369:13,15 372:4,16,25 373:3 373:11,24 374:11 384:5 386:11,24 387:9,10,12,23 388:1,4,6,10,13,22 389:5 390:23 391:21 392:10,14 396:10 centers 358:23 Century 346:7 347:9 347:11 CEO 348:18 certain 338:25 345:9 367:16 certainly 334:20 354:20 375:13 380:23 certified 326:20 329:6 330:4 335:4 398:8 challenge 375:23 396:13 change 359:2,3 changes 353:9 356:10 characteristic 387:10 . characteristics 388:4 check 342:9 357:4 387:3 588:2,16,19 391:3,19,22 Chris 346:8,8,10,11 circumstances 347:15 cited 372:21 cities 397:7 city 331:6 335:9,11 338:10 339:10 340:14 363:19 370:1,3 371:9 373:17,20,22 374:15 377:10 378:7 384:8,12,25 386:4,17 387:8 388:9,21 390:12 393:18,22 city's 378:22 claim 365:3 claims 375:8,9 clarify 341:20 clearance 371:5 clerk 370:3 - clerk's 373:20 client's 375:14 close 348:7 392:17 coat-325:4 326:4 386:9 Code 331:17 355:13 372:10 397:21 college 347:25 colloquy 336:16 come 356:9 358:7 388:1390:11 coming 339:18 348:4 360:6 commence 357:21 358:11 commencing 326:22 comments 375:12 commercial 372:2 commission 393:20 community 354:6 community's 354:3 company 325:9,10 325:10,10 326:9,10 326:10,10 365:8 comparing 335:1 compilation 367:25 complete 337:18,19 337:19 340:4 342:5 350:3,23 358:21 completed 331:13,21 332:9 334:13 350:7 361:8 369:11 389:10 completely 330:23 369:8 completing 332:4 completion 334:9 354:18 357:17 compliance 344:11 comply 383:5 components 365:4 compute 339:71 340:1 conceivably 363:7 concept 386:10,12 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 400 concern 355:18 384:23 concerned 339:10 344:24 concerns 344:19 concluded 398:18 conclusion 370:9 372:6,13 conclusive 374:20 conclusively 372:8 372:18 374:25 condemn 358:4 359:9 363:19 condemnation 358:11 362:17 363:25 conditions 351:21 352:3 371:22 372:15 conference 360:5 confidential 353:18 conflicts 357:6 conformance 383:7 confused 390:20 conjunction 369:22 370:24,". connection 344:5 consent 379:19 consider 350:14 considerable 385:22 considered 382:23 considering 351:1 consistent 378:22,24 constituent 368:1 constitute 353:19 constructing 342:3 378:4 construction 339:2 342:18 357:14 consultant 335:7 351:17 383:16,22 contact 394:10,11 contained 374:4 Container 346:17 Containers 346:14 contemplated 341:12 343:22 344:8 359:5 391:3 391:13,18 396:8 397:1 contemplates 386:25 contemplating 381:7 396:17 contended 363:13 contention 354:16 context 344:7,13 356:15 continuation 368:1 continued 379:18 contract 361:4 contradict 337:3 control 386:19,20,23 conversation 349:15 364:2,6 conveyed 351:20 copartners 392:5 copy 370:1 398:9 Corporation 325:5 326:5 correct 330:11 331:7 333:23 335:25 336:2 340:16 341:19 344:9 359:12,13 365:9 374:4 382:1 383:22 387:12 393:23 398:16 corrected 398:8 corrections 329:19 398:4 cost 339:5,7 342:2,2 342:19 354:14 390:5,6,8 Costco 347:19,20 348:3,6 costs 339:1 340:8 342:16 353:25 390:11 391:10 Cota 383:24 384:1 council 330:17 331:9 350:21 351:7 352:11 370:14 373:17,23 374:5 384:15 393:18,22 396:12 counsel 327:1 329:21 337:16 338:15 398:3 counsel's 337:10 338:7 count 339:14 345:11 county 325:2 326:2 326:22 couple 346:18 390:3 course 380:18 court 325:1 326:1 336:23 347:2 courtesy 337:14 covenant 382:3 covenants 351:21 352:4 cover 397:24 co -tenancies 344:21 crafted 357:18 Crate 346:16 create 363:10 372:1 crossings 348:4 CSR 326:20 current 360:2 currently 344:3 368:22 D 328:1 date 334:9 350:12,16 351:5 369:20 372:9 395:22 396:2 dated 330:2 384:8 dates 357:9,19 360:12 david 325:19 326:18 327:7 328:7 329:4 330:1 day 337:17,24 338:6 days 331:25 351:3 358:1 360:10 391:4,7 397:25 398:2 DBA 331:24 DDA 351:10,13 De 346:24 deal 342:11 357:12 deals 394:15 dealt 393:16 decide 387:23 388:1 decided 333:6,13,14 359:24 375:5 decision 358:3,5 359:15 371:13 386:15 declaration 328:6 329:24,25 330:2,13 330:19,21,23 336:4 398:20 defendants 325:12 326:12 327:11 deficiencies 372:1 376:15 377:16 deficient 371:24 376:13 define 388:3 defined 354:1 defining 388:13 Definitely 337:21 Delaware 325:8,9,10 326:8,9,10 demolished 373:6 demolition 342:18 357:16,20 demonstrate 379:14 department 358:7 361:21 363:13,18 374:24 380:7 depending 342:11,12 345:2 349:23 350:21 363:4,9 depends 334:12,17 342:7 344:15 357:5 358:13 359:19 386:12 391:21 deposed 366:10 deposit 390:21 391:3 391:7,16 deposited 390:16,25 391:4 deposition 325:18 326:18 329:17 330:21 333:1,9,10 333:20 336:10,18 336:19 337:4,9,18 337:19,25 339:18 339:20 366:20,25 367:1,7,8 385:6 398:18 depositions 338:13 339:18 deposits 391:21 describe 353:16 387:9 described 333:8,16 353:24 363:6 392:21 description 328:5 387:2 descriptor 388:3 designated 367:20 desires 380:1 deteriorated 373:2 373:11,23 deteriorating 371:23 372:25 376:12 deterioration 373:9 determination 370:22 386:8 387:8 388:6 determinations 375:10 determine 341:17 371:10 373:23 377:11 determined 332:18 343:13,17,21 344:12 352:1 357:20 367:9,12 370:6,19 375:18,20 377:21 380:21 386:18 develop 380:20 developed 344:10 387:24 developer 338:11 339:6,11 341:23 342:21 343:11 344:2 345:9 353:24 358:14 378:7 380:13 390:20 396:14 developers 388:5 developer's 340:11 344:18 developing 339:1 development 331:19 338:24 343:17 344:2,7,16 350:10 350:19 358:7,14 361:21 363:12,18 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 369:10 371:4 372:3 374:23 380:7 381:5,6 396:14 devise 378:13 different 330:23 333:16 345:1,4 358:23,23 diligence 392:14 direct 368:18 direction 363:19 365:5 director 358:7 361:20 363:12,18 371:14 374:23 380:6 disagreement 354:11 354:12 discovery 374:16 375:9 discretion 387:22 388:15 discuss 352:12 353:11,21355:1,6 366:24 394:21 discussed 336:10 348:9 353:6 355:2 355:17 356:1,11,14 356:16 357:20 362:7,11,18 367:6 394:25 discussing 350:6 354:5,13 discussion 349:12 354:25 357:15 discussions 347:18 348:3,5,6,22 355:18 356:18 360:2,13 362:15,22 363:23 384:7 disposition 331:19 350:10,19 351:10 358:8 district 354:4,6 document 370:18 374:1 documents 339:19 350:4,7,8,13,13 352:12,14 381:5,6 381:10,16 388:21 396:9 Dohn 365:8 doing 365:1,4 389:25 390:2 392:13 396:17 dollar 341:13 363:8 368:5,15 domain 363:14 369:18 Donahue 365:12 done 334:12 335:19 336:2 338:22 Page 401 352:15 361:18 369:20 370:14 371:11 372:20 380:6 383:11 385:3 397:9 double 388:2,19 391:2,19 Doug 348:20 385:17 386:1 down 333:14 344:2 draft 334:19 352:6 391:22 394:7 drafted 352:13 383:16 394:3 drafting 350:11 356:8 394:5 395:19 drafts 334:21 357:12 due 334:1 392:13,14 duly 329:6 During 373:8 duties 397:21 E 328:1,4365:12 each 368:8 371:5,11 373:4 379:13 early 354:4 economic 358:7 361:20 363:12,18 372:1 374:23 376:14 377:10 380:7 389:6 economics 336:6 338:25 389:20 Edinger 347:25 Edwards 347:12,12 347:13 effect 351:17 358:19 389:11 effectuate 363:20 efforts 386:3 EIR 370:19 371:4,10 371:11 either 357:11,25 363:3 378:9 386:1 election 350:24,25 eliminate 371:21 379:12 elimination 363:20 eminent 363:14 369:18 employees 383:21 empty 377:8 encompasses 359:4 369:15 encourage 360:17 encouraging 380:18 end 348:12 356:22 361:12 ending 336:19 ends 389:11 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 -)AVID C.. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00., BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON- ensure 380:7- enter 331:18- entered 344.23 374:8- 390:22. entering 331:22: 343:22 344:17 396:9 entire 368:14 369:13 373:3 389:18 entirely 340:19 344:15 entitled 362:15 363:24 364:9 374:22 375:7 380:22,23 381:1 enumerated 368:19 environment 372:2 environmental 369:21370:6,13,23 371:5 equipment 365:19 - error 338:7 escrow 392:17 ESQ 327:4,8,13 essentially 367:20 establish 389:7 established 382:11 establishes 351:18 - estimate 332:25 334:16 339:13 estimated 334:9 340:8 341:5 estimates 342:17,20- estimating 336:7,8 338:9 339:4 evaluated 371:6 376:8 389:21, even 362:20 386:25 event 363:14 398:7 ever 360:21367:4 383:3 393:3 every 349:19,20,22:. 373:4 everything 346:17 . 396:19 evidence 355:13 373:10 374:1., 375:9 exact35417 358614: 365:4-.:: <..: exactly=331:15 - 333:1*,-i - ' examinati6n 329.2' 329:9 examined 329:7 example 342:17 345:6 346:7 357:13 363:3,4 --379:5 391:9 exception 390:6,8 Excuse 375:2 execute 381:16 exhibit 329:25 330:3 330:6 334:23,25 335:3,18 366:24 367:5,9,13,15 369:24 371:17 383:11,12 384:9 exist 372:15 373:10 374:8,24 382:13 existence 388:22,23 existing 379:17,22 381:21 exists 382:25 exits 397:19 explanation 338:24- extend 369:17 extent 340:10 379:16 381:2 391:2 395:24 extraordinary 390:5 390:6,8,11 ezralow 325:9,10 326:9,10 348:3,5 348:10,12,20,22 349:16,22 352:19 355:13 358:12 359:20 360:13 361:2 363:13,17,23 364:3 375:20 380:18 386:1 387:4,6,11388:9 388:21 390:14,17 392:9 397:1 F 365:12 facilitate 378:9 379:7 facilities 371:25 376:14 facility 342:3 354:3, facility's 354:6 fact 365:16 375:5 factors 342:1,2 factory 325:4 326:4 386:9 facts 374:22,24 375:8 fairly 359:255,25 faith 390:21391:3 391:15,20 fall 396:20. - 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Page 402 393:20 397:4 goal 379:11 Goals 371:18 goes 339:12 352:11 368:4 372:9 375:15 going 329:24 330:20 332:21 337:6 340:18 347:1 349:1,4 350:1 353:8,9,17 357:14 358:16 361:12 366:16 374:12,21 375:1 381:16 387:20 392:24 395:10 397:4 Goldenwest 347:25 348:1 good 329:11,12 390:21391:3,15,20 goodwill 364:24 365:1,1,3,4 gosh 341:25 385:25 grant 378:13 Gray 348:20 385:17 386:1 greater 369:14 Greenberg 394:10 grounds 332:21 group 335:7 392:2,3 392:4,8,13,22,23 392:24,25 393:4,7 393:16 guarantees 354:17 guess 335:1 383:15 guise 349:11 Gus 361:4 365:6 395:19 Guster 352:24 394:7 guy 385:14 guys 397:17 H 328:4 half 355:24 377:4,4,7 377:7 395:25,25 hall 370:1 handle 360:14,15 happen 359:21,22 375:14 happened 349:25 360:9 happy 361:25 having 329:6 356:21 379:13 388:18 Health 331:17 372:9 hear 343:4 heard 346:4 hearing 331:24 332:1350:4,12,17 361:12,15 395:19 395:23 396:1 height 382:9,11 383:1,8 held 349:11 help 338:16 366:17 366:23 her 352:20 361:4 364:17 365:4,5 394:21 395:6 397:21 hereto 398:21 he'll 332:4 higher 377:21 highlighted 336:5 him 337:11 349:7 353:12 366:8,14,20 376:19 385:14 himself 390:3 hired 335:7 365:9,14 365:16 Hold 346:17 holder 342:10 holdings 341:21,23 HOLLAND 327:12 homeowners 334:6 hope 334:17 358:12 hopeful 359:20 hopefully 332:6 350:21 351:7 host 397:7 hour 336:18 348:16 353:4 355:24 Howard 371:14 382:19 383:5 395:9 Hughes 352:19 353:12,13 356:6 362:7,8,10 huntington 325:4,8 326:4,8 328:8 330:22 331:9 334:7 335:15,25 342:24 347:23 363:19 369:13,15 369:23 370:25 372:4,16,25 373:11 373:24 374:2,11,15 384:5,12 386:10,18 389:5 390:23 392:10 396:10 397:8 idea 362:18 identification 329:25 330:4 335:4 III 325:8 326:8 illustrate 345:24 379:5 illustrative 345:3,10 imagine 332:7 impact 352:5 369:21 370:7,24 implementation 343:2,6,7,10 imposed 351:19 improve 397:2 improvements 334:2 342:18 378:5 INC 325:4 326:4 include 335:25 389:18 included 359:4 372:7 383:17 389:12 including 342:5 371:22 376:12 inclusive 325:11 326:11 income 339:3,5,7 incompatible 371:24 374:10 376:12 inconsistent 378:15 378:22 incorporated 359:7 incorrect 333:23,24 increase 334:1,4 368:4,10 385:5 increased 368:12,12 368:13,14 increases 334:3 increment 333:25 incurred 368:9 indebtedness 368:5,9 368:23 independent 330:18 331:4,5 index 338:15 indicate 376:10 386:23 indicated 374:7 individual 369:9 379:13 industrial 372:2 information 345:20 345:22 353:18,19 355:10 384:14 385:23 386:5 infrastructure 371:25 376:13 input 371: f5 instance 351:14 362:21 INSTRUCTED 328:10 instructing 376:19 intensity 382:10 intent 345:9,17,18 345:23,25,25 346:2 346:3,5 385:24 interchangeably 351:12 interest 339:2 351:20 352:3 358:4 361:1 interim 356:10 interwoven 389:19 Introduced 328:5 invade 332:22 invest 340:15 investment 336:7,9 338:11 339:6,10 involved 364:11 380:8 involves 336:6 irrefutably 374:7 irrelevant 374:19 issuances 333:11 issue 354:3 361:9 375:17,23 issues 340:10,20 357:14 items 371:23 James 394:13,18 395:6 Jane 394:13,18 395:6,10 Jayna 384:4 JC 377:5 Jim 341:23 342:9 352:19,24 353:8,12 353:13 356:6 362:7,8,10 383:18 386:2 389:23 390:2,4 395:20 job 371:9 join 353:20 355:15 joint 350:12,17 394:2,5 395:18 July 348:10 349:21 351:2 367:12 384:8 June 351:2 384:8,8 just 334:1,8 335:10 336:14 337:2,12 340:7 345:3 352:8 353:3 356:15,16 361:7 366:10,21 370:3 373:12 374:15 376:16,18 377:7 379:4,23 381:20 382:25 391:22 392:16 395:1 397:4,9 Kaiser 383:19,20 389:22 kane 327:8 397:23 keep 387:19 Kelly 326:19 key 338:15 379:11 Keyser 351:17 kick 390:12 kind 345:2,4 346:21 347:2 357:17 374:3 387:9,23 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 388:13 395:2 kinds 344:21 345:10 356:2 357:18 358:23 Kitchen 346:13 KM 383:22 389:22 knew 341:22 KNIGHT 327:12 know 330:13 332:4 334:11,13,13,14,18 335:6 337:17 339:15 341:5 342:9,16,17 343:2 344:17,20 345:8,15 345:19 346:4,25 347:16 349:4 350:18,20 351:1,8 352:2 355:23 356:7,8 357:4,14 358:12,18,19 359:4 359:19,21,23,24 360:9,12,18 361:3 361:4,14,24 362:18 362:20,24 363:7,10 365:2,3,3,6,23 366:16 368:15 371:5,6 373:22 375:11 379:8,12 382:4,18,20,22,24 383:2 387:8,24 388:5,11,12 390:2 390:2 391:5,7 393:10,14 395:8,9 396:2,16,21 knowing 341:8 knows 374:25 L 326:23 327:3,4 Lake 369:4 land 339:1 341:21 351:22,24 359:5,9 359:10 364:23 371:24 374:11 376:13 language 332:14 350:2 353:9 356:8 388:2,17 large 359:5 369:7 larger 359:10 last 333:1,9,10,16,20 336:10 337:19 349:15,18,25 350:1 352:16 353:1 355:20 356:22 361:23 366:6,7 367:8,11 375:6 385:6,8,9,13,20 395:15 lasted 355:23 late 337:14 353:3 375:22 Page 403 later 332:6 359:24 latest 350:22 law 326:23 352:10 375:19 379:16 lawful 378:14 lawsuit 340:20,20 374:13,14 394:21 394:22,22 lawsuits 394:23,24 lead 375:8 learned 346:2 lease 347:13 362:16 362:19 363:5,20,25 364:10 378:13 leased 363:6 leasehold 362:2,5 leases 339:23 341:21 345:11,13 381:16 388:19 leasing 344:20 363:8 385:10,14 386:3 least 331:25 384:20 legal 331:23 350:11 350:19 352:7 370:8 372:5,12- 391:10 legal -oriented 356:7 lenders 392:21 length 363:9 less 355:25 lessee 363:4 letter 355:11 397:24 letters 345:9,16,18 345:22,24,25 346:1 346:3,5 385:24 let's 338:1,1 346:7,8 346:18,23 349:17 350:1,5 352:17 353:2 354:18 361:3,6 368:16 387:17 391:1 395:20 level 343:24 365:5 378:1 386:23 levels 371:4 382:3 388:4 Liability 325:8,9,10 326:8,9,10 liaison 361:5 lies 371:13 lieu 347:11 398:9 light 371:7 like 336:11,17 338:3 346:16,17,18 352:24 360:19 366:10 379:2 382:16 386:24 393:1 likely 358:10 limit 368:5,15 Limitations 382:8 Limited 325:8,9,10 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 AVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.0% BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON> 326:8,9,10 limits 368:10 382:1& line 328:11338:18 340:18 356:9. list 345:7,8 390:10: litigation 33 1: 10 360:4 391:10 395:5 396:13 tittle 355:25 LLP 327:12 local 395:24 located 326:24 371:11 373:24 location 368:13 locations 369:2,3 long 344:13 348:15 353:1 355:23 longer 351:3 look 330:1 333:4 336:4 337:8 338:3 338:23 339:4 341:25 367:15 371:16 378:2 379:15,25. 381:4,5 382:7 looked 340:7 362:20 looking 334:24 358:19 366:2 367:16,16 378:8 379:3 382:1392:9 Los 326:25 327:5,10 327:14 329:2 lost 337:21 lot 353:7,23 368:24 Ludler 392:25 393:3 393:7,8 lump 354:4 L..A 337:25 made 329:19 334:2 335:22 356:4,10. 358:3,5 359:16 370:22,24 377:20 386:9,16 main 342:2 354:24 361:4 maintaining 397.21.. maintenance 382:2' make 338.22 387.,& 398:6 makes 359:10' mall 373:4 380:25 392:4 manner 361:18 manufacture375:15 many 339:14 347:9 359:24 369:18 380:2 384:17 391:4,7 392:15 mark 327:13 329:24 352:21 marked 328:5 330:3 335:3 market 363:5,9 marketplace 363:11 married 352:20 Marston 351:17 383:19,20 389:22 Mary 326:19 massing 383:8 math 338:25 matter 342:20 349:9. 375:19 377:7 398:7 maximum 340:14 376:23,25 377:8 may 333:11,18 336:24 342:11,11 346:1351:2 352:1 352:1357:5 363:10 368:5 393:10,15 396:6 maybe 337:13 338:16 357:25. 386:1 mean 334:5 336:8 342:14 343:10 346:16 353:12 358:15 364:22,23 368:7 369:4 380:24 meaning 359:9 363:7 369:9 380:8 394:16 means 331:4 338:21 343:11378:14 379:21,22 380:9,91 383:15 meet 382:4 392:7,19 393:3 meeting 348:11,15 348:21,24,25 349:2 349:5,8,10,11,21 349:24,25 350:1,5 351:8 352:15 353:1,6 354:11 355:1,2,5,7,20,21. 355:23 356:1,4,5 356:14,14,20 357:8 380:15 384:16 385:8 397:2 meetings 350:21 356:22 357:2,9,15 365:24,25 366:3 394:12 396:25,25' meets 393:22 memo 384:8 395:11 397:5 memos 395:14 396:5 mentioned 333:20 335:19 339:17 346:20 350:6 351:15 373:12 385:7 392:1 395:19 merged 335:21 368:11,14 372:7 merger 335:8,20,24 372:20 met 333:6 392:1,15 393:11 might 338:21339:12 340:10 362:22 363:5 391:3 393:15 million 333:3 340:9 368:17,23 mind 351:5 387:21 minute 397:5 minutes 337:13. 353:3,4 mirror 344:4 mix 386:19,20 moment 337:2 monday 325:20 326:23 329:1 349:17 money 333:14,21 390:12,16,25 391:7 391:8,12 .moneys 354:15 month 360:11'366:6 366:7 383:25 384:5 394:19,20 395:13,15 months 357:18 359:24 375:6 more 334:2 337:11 347:2 356:7 358:25 367:10 372:1379:1,14 387:1388:3 390:12 393:15 394:15 Morgan 384:4 morning 329:11,12 most 374:13 395:4 Mostly 357:12 361:17 366:9 373:4 motivation 375:14 375:16 move 343:12 350:4 374:20 376:18 much 339:5 349:23 350:5,13 352:14- 361:3 366:17,23 368:21388:12 389:17 391:8 multiple 334:21 Murray 352:24 353:8 356:6 362:12,13 365:6 must 371:11 myself 345:18,25 352:24 362:20 397:24 N 328:1 name 352:20 385:8,9 385:13 392:25 393:2,10 named 385:7 names 347:3 348:19 394:14 narrowed 333:13 nature 341:11.. 391:21 necessarily 343A 344:1351:1 380:24 necessary 364:12 378:4 381:12' need 338:21342:4,8 342:8112,25 351:9 352:9,12,14 361:7 361:17,20,21375:1 391:8 needed 370:19 379:6 needs 342:10 349:24 negotiate 3513 359:20 negotiating 332:12 332:13 344:3 negotiations 349:18 353:19 neither 359:1,17 Nesley 356:16 never 386:22,22 new 335:10,12,14 352:20 361:25 388:1 newspaper 350:20. next 382:1396:8 nickel337:23 340:12 nine 378:3 ninth 336:17 Nobody 336:21 nonconforming.. 382:5 nondiscrimination 382:2. none 369:10 395:21 nothing 355:19' 361:16 375:11 385:2 notice 331:24 350:11 350:20 352:7 395:23 notices 391:8 - 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BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. 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BIGGS, VOL.3; 094i1.0d= ...: BURLINGTON V. 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359:12 364:17 372:6 375:17,23- 382:15 383:12 385:23 395:3 397:21 respond 375:12, response 337:12 responsibility 389:23 398:3 responsible 394:5 Restaurant 346:8 restaurants 346:19 346:22,23 347:4 restrictions 351:18 351:22 352:4 382:3 result 358:22. resulted 380:15 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 - Page 406 results 334:2 RETAIL 325:9 326:9 retailers 346:19 347:7 359:1 retained 335:10 360:25 return 336:7,9 338:9 338:10,10,10 339:6 339:10,11,13 340:24,25 341:1,5 341:9,11,13 342:6 reuse 350:9 351:15 351:16 389:13,19 revenue 358:23 revenues 354:2 review 329:16 339:16,19 370:13 383:17 394:8 396:15,24 398:1 reviewed 336:14- 339:17 383:141 reviewing 357:12 right 338:13,23 342:20,21351:13 359:25 361:16-.. 369:17 370:4 373:15 376:21 382:2 387:11 risk 342:12,14,21 Roman 371:17 room 368:24 397:19 Rosenow 335:6 Rosenow's 335:17 rough 342:17 Rs 381:12,17,19,25 run 339:16 355:25 runs 363:4 Ruth 346:8,8,10 Ruth's 346:11 S 327:13 328:4 Sacks 345:4 Safety 331:17 372:9 sales 333:10 385:1,4 same 333:25 341:6 344:4 356:2 357:10 359:12 360:17 376:7 saying 370:18 374:25 375:25 says 331:4 336:5 367:17,25 369:16 371:17,21378:3,12 379:16 380:1 382:8,10 SB 344:5,6 scenarios 343:25 344:7 schedule 357:6,13 scheduled 355:24 357:25 scope 335:17 340:19 344:2,15 358:14 380:14 391:21 screens 347:10 second 392:24 section 336:12 338:4 371:17 372:10 see 346:8,9,18,23 349:17 350:1,5 352:17 353:2 354:18 360:18 361:3,6 367:18 368:16 371:19 380:4,18 387:17 391:1,22 395:20 seen 334:19 343:3,8 344:5,19 345:18,25 346:1 362:19 394:4 Seidel 352:22,23 selected 380:12,19 selective 369:16 Selefski 366:5,15,25 367:4 371:14 395:9 sent 397:22 sentence 387:19,21 separate 335:20 336:19 371:10 396:22 separately 371:6 393:17 september 325:20 326:23 329:1 332:7,8 334:16,17 352:18 355:18 361:13 386:8 388:8 series 374:12 sessions 396:24,24 set 350:12,16 351:5 settled 358:2 settlement 349:2,5 349:11 355:5,7,9 355:18 356:18 360:5 380:15 shedding 371:7 shipow 327:13 330:20 337:14 338:15 340:18 343:6 349:1,4,9 353:17 355:10 370:8 374:12 375:7,12,20 376:7 387:13,15 397:13 -397:14,25 398:12 Shipow's 337:15 shopping 340:8 345:3,4,5 387:12 387:23 388:10,22 short 337:11 Shorthand 326:20 329:6 330:4 335:4 show 337:24 373:10 374:3 sign 330:19 345:11 363:10 398:1 signature 330:8 397:22 signatures 384:17,21 signed 330:10,13 334:13 345:14,16 345:22,24 346:3,5 350:18 384:12 398:5,8 Silver 348:13 simple 338:24,25 since 348:10 349:21 351:2 356:25 366:20,25 367:1,8 367:12 373:5 377:3 384:8 sit 342:23 362:1 386:17 393:23 site 343:12 347:22,23 369:15 378:4 379:18 380:13,20 380:25 381:24 382:17 385:5 391:6 396:15 sites 347:24 378:4 sits 364:20 365:21 situation 360:14,15 six 373:7 size 382:9,11 383:1 softgood 346:19 solely 349:11 some 335:22 337:21 339:4 343:15,19 346:4,4,19 347:2 351:13,13 353:9 354:5 359:23 360:25 370:22 374:3 381:17 386:13 389:3 390:10 396:16 somebody 385:7 somehow 359:9 someone 365:2 384:15 389:25 392:7,22 something 346:18 352:8,11,23 358:13 390:19 393:1 394:15 sometime 332:7,7 334:11,17 351:7 360:6 391:13 sometimes 356:22 357:5,6 379:4 394:12 somewhere 352:21 381:1 soon 334:11 350:18 360:6 sooner 332:6 sorry 343:4 351:11 352:18 367:24 372:12 381:14 385:16 sort 363:6 388:12 389:18 source 346:2 South 327:9 SP 344:14 370:7 speak 366:5 special 330:16 specific 332:14 342:1 343:23 344:2,11 347:3 355:11 357:12,12 360.10 360:12 362:22 365:5 370:10,15 371:2,4 382:14,16 382:18,22 383:3,6 383:7,9 387:1 388:4,18 393:6 396:11 specifically 336:15 347:8,17 348:23 349:12 350:25 354:10,22 355:22 356:13,23 357:24 360:20 361:7 364:1,25 366:4,9 370:15 372:21 373:25 376:8 378:8 383:15 385:25 391:25 specifics 381:19 speed 338:16 spell 346:24 spent 353:7,9 Spevacek 335:6 spoke 384:15 385:20 390:4 393:6 spoken 360:21 383:24 384:4 393:8 394:18 spread 371:21 square 340:9 363:8 staff 370:16,21 371:14 395:20 start 357:14,16,18 391:9,12 starting 338:18 starts 367:17 state 325:1 326:1,21 352:10 status 332:11 360:2 statutorially 331:16 staying 358:20,21 Steakhouse 346:8 steps 384:25 396:22 still 332:7,12,13,22 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON 335:9 341:2 353:11 354:13 358:13 359:20 376:1 stipulated 398:12,14 stipulation 397:17 store 346:17 348:8 376:11 377:11,12 377:17,22,23 Stores 346:14 store -by -store 378:1 Street 327:9,13 strike 335:13 stronger 354:19 structure 364:23 376:24 377:1,5,12 377:13,17,18 379:9 382:24 structured 342:11 structures 341:21 371:25 376:14 study 396:24 subject 332:23 336:24 353:18 374:20 376:11 sublet 363:10 submit 396:15 submitted 344:5 378:16 380:11 382:14 393:25 subpoena 395:7,10 subpoenaed 395:8 substandard 379:9 sued 360:7 395:2 sufficient 371:1 suggested 380:14 suit 366:6 Suite 327:9 sum 354:4 summary 350:9 351:9,10 352:7,8,9 389:12,19 Sun 392:11,15,19,22 393:11 SUPERIOR 325:1 326:1 support 339:5,7 374:1 sure 336:13 338:22 344:6 354:12 368:19 387:14,15 sworn 329:6 symptoms 379:14 T 328:4 take 330:1336:4 339:2 344:7 359:8 367:15 371:16 378:2 379:15,25 381:4 382:7 384:25 397:1 Page 407 taken 326:18 330:21 370:14 396:22,23 397:11 taking 369:10 386:19.20 Talbert 369:5 talk 338:24 344:16 356:7 367:10 395:6 talked 350:10 361:6 361:11,23 366:20 talking 347:24 350:2 353:16 360:17 365:24 366:10,14 381:23 385:6 386:2 target 350:16 tax 333:10,25,25 385:5 taxes 333:11,18,19 333:22 334:2,3,5 385:1 tearing 359:6 technically 382:20 tell 356:25 363:1 364:25 365:25 372:15 tenancies 344:24 tenant 345:7,8 386:19,20 tenants 344:25 345:2 345:9,10,12,16,24 346:3,5 373:7 380:3 386:6 387:1 387:7,12 388:1,5,6 388:10,15 tend 356:7 tendencies 344:20 tender 357:10 tepper 327:8 331:4 332:21 336:16 337:5,8,23 338:1 341:2,6 346:10,12 353:20 355:15 361:11,14 370:10 372:5,12,17 373:16 374:7,17,19 375:2 375:5,17,22 376:17 376:20 378:17 387:16,19 397:15 397:16 398:1,13,14 398:15 Tepper's 397:23 398:2 term 363:9 369:6 terms 342:5 353:21 354:5 355:11 356:3,12 357:12 358:15,15 377:17 383:1 testified 329:7 381:7 381:10 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Thank 374:17 379:25 383.11, Thanks 341:16- theaters 346:7 347:9 347:9,11 their 338:23 339:6 341:23 347:14 348:8,19 363:10 365:18 380:15 386:3 388:14 392:5,10,12,13,25 thing 346:21360:17 395:2 things 333:12 336:5 336:6 338:16 344:21347:2 351:23 352:6 356:2 357:13,17 372:21 379:9 380:14 382:6 386:14 389:7 395:18 think 341:24 342:7,9 346:13,20,24 347:13 348:6,7,10 348:16 352:25 353:8 356:15,22 357:24 358:18 360:6,11,25 361:9 361:10,11,12,14 365:1,11366:16,23 369:17 372:19 373:3,6 374:15,25 377:6,7 383:8 386:25 388:12,14 392:3,5,11,13 396:21 third 337:17 367:24 379:23 though 392:5 395:2 three 358:19 367:17 368:4 three-story 377:5 through 325:11 326:11 333:21 380:10 387:24 395:9' Thursday 349:18,19b- 349:20,22.352:16 3551V356:20Q�, 395:24'396:25'. tie 344:1 tiered 388:12 time 331:23 333:16 337:10,21 344:22 344:23 349:15 .350:21353:4,8,9 . 354:2 358:9 359:22 361:23 367:11368:6,17 369:17 370:14,22 372:21 373:8 374:6 385:20,22 390:21 391:13 392:9,16 395:22 396:16 397:13 timely 361:18 times 379:10 MA5 timing 350:3 361:3 today 330:21 339:18 339:20 342:23 349:17 362:1 381:7 382:25 386:8,17 388:8,11 390:16 together 393:17 told 362:4 364:14 370:23 384:11 395:9 tone 357:10 topic 352:15 357:15 topics 354:24 total 339:3 towards 348:12 town 349:23,24 357:5 transaction 342:13 342:15 transactions 351:13 transcript 333:5 338:4 352:20 397:22 398:1,4 transcripts 338:17 transmission 397:24 tried 337:18 True 359:14 try 363:15 387:19 388:2 trying 342:7 346:23 350:23 351:1 375:15 386:24 tuchman 326:24 327:3,4 328:2 329:10,23 330:5,25 331:2,7,11 332:24 335:5 336:17 337:12 338:6,8,17 338:19 340:23 341:4,7 343:9 346:15 349:7,14 354:8 355.16 361:19 370:12,17 372:14,23 373:19 374:18,21 375:4,12 375:25 376:4,9,19 376:21,22 378:21 387:14,21 388:7 397:12,15,20 398:13 turn 379:23 Twenty -First 327:14 two 336:18 339:18 346:22 347:4,24 348:18 352:6 359:6,17,17,21 375:5,6 392:21 393:13 395:25,25 type 341:11 342:25 344:4,20 345:1 376:11 377:10 382:9,10 383:1 386:23 387:2 390:10 396:25 typed 367:4,9 types 344:25 351:23 382:3,6 typical 339:16 382:3 typically 339:15 355:25 ultimate 344:15 371:13 ultimately 371:14 386:12 387:7,23,25 396:15 uncorrected 398:8-- under 329:14 331:16 344:8 349:11 351:19 352:10 361:4 369:18 3711 376:5 378:2 397:21398:2,20: understand 346:1 364:18 374:24 375:25 378:18,19 379:21381:22 understanding 330:18 331:8 333:24 363:1 undertaken 377:25 underutilized 371:23 372:24 undesirable 379:8 undue 336:16 uneconomic 371:24- - 374:10 376:13 unforeseen 390:12 . unless 379:20 unquote 345:8 unrelated 390:23,24, unsigned 398:9 until 334:13 345:10 359:23 365:1 386:14 396:17 updates 335:22 use 342:17 345:10 351:22 376:23,25 377:8,21379:8,19 395:24 used 368:21 377:12 389:6 398:9 uses 371:24 374:11 376:13 382:5 using 339:3 351:9,12 371:4 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL.3, 09.11.0W, BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON- usually 341:10 356:9 357:17 388:2 391:4 utilized 340:25, vacant 373:5,5 Valuation 341:18 valuations 341:16 342:4,24 value 334:1,4 340:1 341:21,22 351:20 362:1,4,7,8,11,16 362:19,21,23,24 363:7,15,21,24 364:10,11,14,15,23 values 339:23 variations 344:14 variety 332:14 version 356:9 versus 330:22 . very 338:23 342:17 345:1358:22 361:16 - viable 343:14,15,16 343:17,19,20,22 344:1,13,16,17,18 view 348:7 violate 382:25 violative 333:18- volume 325:8 326:8 398:15 Volumes 329:17 vs 325:7 326:7 wait 337:16 waited 337:14 waiting 389:16 397:7 want 337:3,8,11,12 337:16,21350:16 351:5 366:24 367:15 368:23 371:16 376:1 381:17 387:9,23 _ 388:13 wanted 337:18,19 354:19,19-- wants 384:25 Ward 360:25 Wards 345:5 358:20= 358:21359:3,4,6,8 359:16,17 360:3,7 360:14,15,18,18 " 365:20,22 395:3,4 Ward's 361:1364:21 WAREHOUSE 325:4 326:4 wasn't 347:1 way 331:12 336:23' 339:17 363:4 374.16,22 375:18- 7ILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787 Page 408 383:12 weaker 354:19 week 349:18 weekly 349:17 weeks 395:25,25 well 331:8 333:10 336:10 339:15 341:22,25 342:16 343:23 345:20 348:11350:18 354:23 355:12 357:25 358:12,18 359:2 360:24 361:14 363:3,5 364:12,19 368:8 372:20 373:3 379:1 380:9,10,23 381:8,14 382:17 385:10 391:1 395:23 went 356:17 380:10 were 330:19 331:10 335:21340:8, 348:15 350:1,7 . 353:16,23 354:5,13 354:15,24356:2: 357:9 362:16 . 365:9,14,24 366:3: 366:10 372:21 373:23 375:5 380:12 381:16 384:11 385:6 390:19 392:4,13 395:9 West 327:13 we'll 350:19 381:2 387:24 397:5,9 we're 332:12 359:19 379:2 383:11 388:17 391:9 397:9 we've 342:16 344:5 347:24 351:1 357:10 358:19 389:6 395:2 while 347:14 353:11 whole 340:18 Wilshire 326:24 327:4 withdraw 378:11 witness 327:7 329:5 331:1,8 336:21 337:2,6,24 338:3 338:18 343:7 346:11,13 349:3 353:23 355:14 361:16 370:13 372:11,19 373:17 374:23 376:2,8,16 378:20 387:17,20 387:22 397:17 Woman's 346:20 word 338:15 343:4 words 359:8 work 332:23 335:9 341:2 354:7 358:13 380:19 381:2 working 332:2 335:14 356:2 357:11 works 333:25 385:17 wouldn't 345:11 375:6 writings 376:10 written 349:5,12 373:10 386:5 388:20 395:12,16 395:17 wrong 342:20,22 397:5 X 328:1,4 yeah 346:12 353:13 367:23 385:15 387:20 395:4 years 339:14,16 369:18,19 373:8 375:22 Yorktown 369:4 Zachary 360:21,23 360:24 364:17 365:8 zoning 382:5,12 $20 333:3 $25 368:23 $275 368:17 $4 363:9 OOCC06309 325:7 326:7 IL 1325:11 326:11 329:17 367:16,20 10 325:11 326:11 328:13,14 3333 353:4 357:1 10,000 384:20 10:45 336:20,22 337:1,17 10:50 398:18 It 325:20 326:23 329:1 386:8 388:8 397:7 11519 326:21 12 369:19 13 333:18 338:18 344:5,6,14 370:7 14 331:25 15 337:13 150 358:1 16 381:4 17 357:1 180 358:1 1850 327:9 1995 335:8 1996 335:22 336:2 372:7 373:5 374:7 2 329:17 20 353:3 368:23 382:7 2000 325:20 326:23 329:1 330:2,10 386:9 388:8 213 327:6,10,15 215 328:6 329:25 330:3,6 334:23 216 328:8 334:25 335:3,18 367:15 369:24 371:17 383:12 24 356:20 357:1,18 25 339:16 27 368:19,19 28 348:10 349:21 384:8 28th 356:25 367:12 3 357:1,8 367:18,22 398:15 3-page 328:6 3:00 353:3 30 339:16 360:10 397:25 398:2 30th 326:25 327:5 31355:21356:11 325.398 325:9 329 328:2 330 328:6--- 33433 331:12,15,21 332:4 350:3,6 .352:5 383:18 389:12,18,19 395:21 335 328:8 33500 372:10 33501372:10 3435 326:24 327:4 355 328:12 374 328:13 376 328:14 385-8000 327:6 4 330:2,10 334:24 5 334:24 371:16 382:8 384:8 5th 384:8 515 327:9 54-page 328:8 6 378:2 60 338:18 351:3 . 617-0408 327:10 633 327:13 7 336:5 366:24 367:5 367:9,13 378:12 384:9 7th 352:18 355:18 8 379:15 8-31356:4 8:30 336:21,22 896-2400 327:15 9 328:12 378:6 379:25 9-7 356:5 9:10 325:20 326:22 329:1 90010 327:5 90071327:10 90071-2040 327:14 % 335:8 DAVID C. BIGGS, VOL-3, 09.11.00 BURLINGTON V. HUNTINGTON Page 409 JILIO & ASSOCIATES CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS A Veritext Company- 800.649.8787