HomeMy WebLinkAboutCentral Park Senior Center - File 2 of 2 - Transcript of t City ®f Huntington Beach
' 2000 Main Street - Huntington Beach, CA 92648
OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERIC
ri teo JOAN L. FLYNN
e
CITY CLERIC
November 14, 2008
To Whom It May Concern:
1 hereby certify that the excerpts included in the enclosed document entitled, "City of Huntington
Beach—City Council Meeting February 4, 2008," represent a true account of testimony and
discussion during public comments and public hearing at the Huntington Beach City Council
meeting held on Monday, February 4, 2008 on the following item:
D-1. (City Council) Public Hearing to Consider an Appeal by Mayor Cook of the Planning
Commission's Approval of Environmental Impact Report (EIR) No. 07-002 and Conditional Use
Permit No. (CUP) No. 07-039 for the Construction and Operation of an Approximately 45,000
sq. ft. Senior Center to be Located at 18041 Goldenwest Street, a 5-Acre Site Southwest of the
Intersection of Goldenwest Street/Talbert Avenue in Central Park; Adopt Resolution No. 2008-
06 Certifying the Final EIR (SCH #2007041027)for the Huntington Beach Senior Center
Project; Approve California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) Statement of Findings of Fact
with a Statement of Overriding Considerations
I have also enclosed a the red-lined document to show changes made from the original draft
that was provided to me by John Fujii, Senior Deputy City Attorney for the City of Huntington
Beach. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
Ro in Lugar
Assistant City Clerk
City of Huntington Beach
2000 Main Street
Huntington Beach CA 92648
(714) 536-5405
rlugar surfcity-hb.org
c: John Fujii, Senior Deputy City Attorney
Joan Flynn, City Clerk
Encl. Certified Copy- City of Huntington Beach — City Council Meeting February 4, 2008
Red-lined version of City of Huntington Beach —City Council Meeting February 4, 2008
Sister Cities: Anjo, Japan - Waitakere, New Zealand
(Telephone:714-536-5227)
I CITY OF HUNTINGTON BEACH - CITY COUNCIL MEETING
The foregoing instrument is a convd
2 FEBRUARY 4, 2008 oopy of the original on file in this office
3 ((Excerpts)) Attest /� 20 a
AN LEL-I(AWN
4 City Clark and Ex-officlork of the City
Council of the City of Huntington Beach,
5 Rollcall: All city council members present. Cal
By
Deptity-
7 Public Comments
8
9 Dean Albright
10 Good evening Mayor and City Council, my name is Dean Albright. Before I got here in
11 1969, in the early 60's, there was this great big strip of land that was being hollowed out,
12 graded, channeled— what it was, it was supposed to be a retention basin. It was to collect all
13 the water in the surrounding area, and channel it down thru the Slater Channel - Until several
14 council people during the 60's and early 70's lobbied Dave Baker, our supervisor at that
15 time, to make Huntington Central Park out of that big hole. It took a lot of effort and a lot of
16 fight to even get that far, and that was something that everybody in the community really
17 enjoyed. It's attracted people from allover to that park—just for the park alone. Then they
18 put the library in that was the first step into the park. But the library seemed to fit because of
19 the quietness of the library, and that seemed to be an adequate spot. But I think that it should
20 have ended there. To try to put anything else into that park is wrong. It is the only big open
21 space that we have that we can go and enjoy without any interruption. And to make it, to
22 put something else in there, that's a foot in the door, for not maybe this council, but maybe
23 future councils, to put something in that park, and it doesn't belong there. Before I leave the
24 podium, I would like to ask anybody in this chamber, can you tell me why Don Shipley's
25 picture is not up on that wall.
26
27 Jim Townsend
28
1 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1 i09522
I Mayor and members of the City Council, my name is Jim Townsend and I am here t® talk
2 about the Senior Center. I'm here to talk about the Senior Center and I'm surprised to find
3 myself almost leading off this particular discussion. I guess everybody else signed up to talk
4 later. But I'll go home and put my pajamas on and watch that — more comfortably. I think if
5 you made a survey of Senior Centers in this area, I think the kindest words you could
6 probably use to describe our situation is underserved. The building that we have down there
7 now which starts out from two old GI barracks from WWII, and I think we're right on the
8 thin edge of this story they tell about the termites holding hands in order to keep the place up
9 in the air. We must be very close to it. I think we've had termite problems down there for
10 years. One of the factors —you know, Fountain Valley, which is a city about one fourth the
11 size of Huntington Beach, has a.brand new, beautiful, Senior Center there and it is one and a
12 half times the size of the one we have right here in Huntington Beach. And the times I've
13 been there it's been pretty full. They keep the place busy. Of course, it's run by a lady that
14 also used to run our Senior Center, as a matter of fact, and she's doing a good job. Another
15 problem that we have at the present Senior Center is the parking situation. It restricts the
16 kind of activity—once you have one thing going of any size in that facility there's no room
17 left for anything else, so there's no room for people to park. You can't do anything else at
18 that particular Senior Center. We have numerous problems and it seems like we are at the
19 situation right now where it's either go ahead with what's being proposed or heaven knows
20 when we can get around to doing anything serious about replacing the Senior Center that we
21 do have. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak.
22
23
24 Alexandra Gold
25 Hi, my natne is Alexandra Gold and I am here to talk about the relocation of the Senior
26 Center. I've grown up in Huntington Beach. I've lived here for 19 years and Central Park is
27 a place I remember going to as a kid and just walk there in the park and I'm all for the Senior
28
2 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
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I Center but I definitely think we should explore other options and find a different location for
2 it, if possible. Thank you.
3
4 Jon Bunch
5 Hello, my name is Jon Bunch. I just wanted to say that D 1 is a good idea but a bad location.
6 I want you to discuss alternative sites and save Central Park. Thank you very much.
7
8 Stefanie Gay
9 Hi, my name is Stefanie Gay and I'm talking about the Senior Center also. I think it is a
10 really good idea but you should look at alternative cities (sites) and Save Central Park.
11 Thank you.
12
13 Jules Hooper
14 Good Evening Mrs. Mayor and City Council. Pm Jules Hooper and I've been in Huntington
15 Beach since 1968. I work as a volunteer at the Senior Center drive seniors to their medical
16 appointments periodically and I want to encourage you to pass the CUP and the EIR
17 documents as they have been presented without any alterations or onerous burdens placed on
18 them. Thank you.
19
20 Ryan Cisneros
21 Yes, Hello, my name is Ryan Cisneros and I am speaking.on behalf of D1. I believe it is a
22 great idea, but I think we should relocate on the location_ And Save Central Park. Thank
23 you.
24
25 Anh Pham
26 My name is Anh Pham. I think D 1 is a great idea but bad location. Let's look at alternative
27 sites. Save Central Park. Thank you.
28
3 Transcript City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I Cetin Aydin
2 Hi my name is Cetin Aydin. It's a great idea but a bad location. Let's look at other
3 alternative sites. Save Central Park. Thank you very much.
4
5 Tri Nguyen
6 Hi my naive is Tri, same subject. I think it's a great idea, but bad location. Let's save
7 Central Park. Thank you very much.
8
9 Jeff Payetta
10 My name's Jeff Payetta and I'm here with every other student and I'm saying the same exact
11 thing they are. I just want to say to relocate the Senior Center and Save Central Park. Thank
12 you for your time.
13
14 Councilwoman Cathy Green
15 Jeff, can I ask you a question? Or maybe to all of you that are here. Are you here as part of
16 a class or ?
17
18 Jeff Payetta
19 Yes.
20
21 Councilwoman Cathy Green
22 You're here as a class assignment`'
23
24 Jeff Payetta and James Chung
25 We're here on our own free will.
26
27 Councilwoman Cathy Green
28 Do you get credit for this or extra points?
4 Transcript —City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
1
2 Jeff Payetta
3 Answer not heard.
4
5 James Chung
6 So, I'm saying it's a great idea, bad location. Let's see some other alternative sites. Thank
7 you.
8
9 Roy Lee
10 Hi my name is Roy Lee, and I am from Huntington Beach. I believe the Senior Center is a
11 great idea but I don't want to lose Central Park either, so we should look for alternative sites.
12 Thank you.
13
14 Amy Peterson
15 Hi. Good Evening, my name is Amy Peterson. I have grown up in Huntington Beach since
16 I was really little. Actually, it's been 12 years now. I've grown up going to Central Park
17 with my family. I'd also like to agree with all these speakers that I've heard, and I would
18 like to say that it is a great idea but we'd like to ask if you would look at other locations.
19 Thank you.
20
21 Laura Reichstadt
22 My name is Laura Reichstadt. Like everybody else I agree that it is a great idea but I believe
23 that we need a different location because Central Park is where little kids play, families have
24 fun and play sports and enjoy themselves. So, it's a great idea but I just think a different
25 location might be a better idea. Thank you.
26
27 Councilmember Joe Carchio
28 Could you tell me what class you guys are in that you decided to discuss this?
5 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02,/04/2008
l 509522
1
2 Laura Reichstadt
3 Geography.
4
5 Joe Carchio
6 Geography?
7
8 Laura Reichstadt
9 Yes.
10
11 Joe Carchio
12 Thank you.
13
14 Noel Clarke
15 Hi, my name is Noel Clarke and I am a resident of Huntington Beach and I have lived here
16 for 10 or 11 years. I like D1, I like the idea but I think it is a bad location. Because Central
17 Park is where a lot of activities take place like kids and citizens in the area, and I say relocate
18 and save Central Park. Thank you.
19
20 Ian Knox
21 Hello, my name is Ian Knox and I'd like to add to his points about Central Park and how I
22 grew up in Westminster and my family took stuff over there for the weekend. And D 1 we
23 spoke about and the ideas that it has and it sounds great for the elderly,just that site. It'd be
24 great if it was somewhere closer and not in the park. Thank you.
25
26 Quinme Nguyen
27
28
6 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
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I Hi, my name is Quinnie Nguyen and just like all the students, I really support the idea of Dl
2 but I think you should chose a different location because the park is more for other activities
3 than the Senior homes. Thank you.
4
5 Kathy Truoung
6 Hello, my name is Kathy Troung. I reside in Westminster but I work in Huntington Beach
7 and especially since Igo to Goldenwest College, I became aware of this issue of D l. lam
8 with the students, I do like the idea of building the Senior Homes but I would like it
9 elsewhere, maybe next to the library, but not by the Central in the-Park because I would like
10 to preserve the park. Thank you.
11
12 City Clerk
13 This concludes Public Comments.
14
15 Staff Report/Presentation
16
17 Debbie Cook
18 First Public Hearing Item which is D-1.
19
20 Paul Emery
21 If I could have Scott Hess, Director of Planning to begin the presentation.
22
23 Scott Hess
24 Thank you, Paul. Good evening Mayor and Council Members, as we get arranged here,
25 consultants and staff team. I do want to introduce the team of city staff and consultants who
26 have been working on this project for a year now and also provide you with a brief history of
27 entitlement milestones. Jennifer Villasenor is the Project Planner for the proposed senior
28 center, sitting down to my left on the end. In addition to Jennifer from the Planning
7 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1 so9522
I Department is Mary Beth Broeren, Planning Manager, Dave Dominguez, Facilities
2 Development Manager with the Community Services Department behind me. Bob
3 Stachelski, Transportation Manager has also been involved as well as Lee Caldwell from the
4 Fire Department, Leonie Mulvihill from the City Attorney's office, Terri Elliott and Debbie
5 De Bow with Public Works. Our consultant team from PBS & J includes TJ Nathan and
6 May Lou as well as biologist John Speranza (sp). From Urban Crossroads we have Marlie
7 Whiteman (sp) and Carleton Waters and then Jim Wyrick (sp) with LPA who has been our
8 lead consultant based on an issue raised by the Planning Commission.
9
10 Processing of these entitlements presented this evening actually began in February of last
11 year with a kick off meeting for the EIR. In April we had an EIR scoping meeting and then
12 the project went to the Design Review Board in August and the Community Services
13 Commission in November. The Planning Commission held two study sessions in November
14 and a Public Hearing with community input was in December. The Planning Commission
15 certified the EIR on a vote of 5-2 and approved the Conditional Use Permit on a vote of 4-3.
16 It should be noted also that the Council on Aging has been involved throughout the entire
17 process. And with that, now I would like to turn it over to Jennifer to start with the
18 PowerPoint presentation.
19
20 Jennifer Villasenor
21 Thank you and good evening Mayor Cook and members of the Council. Tonight's appeal is
22 of the senior center EIR #07-002 and Conditional Use Permit #07-039. To give you a
23 perspective of the senior center location, it's a five acre site within a fourteen acre area
24 within the 356-acre Central Park. It's located southwest of the intersection of Talbert
25 Avenue and Goldenwest Street. To the north is Shipley Nature Center; south of that at a
26 higher elevation is the disc golf course. To the west you have Huntington Lake and then
27 about 800 feet to the west you have some single-family residential uses. Also about 1000
28
8 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
I feet north of the site you have single-family residential uses as well. Across Goldenwest you
2 have the Sports Complex and Central Library.
3
4 The EIR analyzes the potential adverse environmental impacts associated with the
5 construction/operation of a new 45,000 square foot senior center. The EIR analyzed 13 issue
6 areas which included aesthetics, biological resources, transportation/traffic, and land use
7 planning just to name a few. What the EIR concluded was that all project specific impacts
8 can be reduced to levels less than significant with the incorporation of mitigation measures
9 and standard code requirements. One cumulative impact to aesthetics is found to be
10 significant and as such a Statement of Overriding Considerations is required in order to
I 1 approve the project.
12
13 The Conditional Use Permit request is to construct and operate a senior recreation facility as
14 required by the HB Zoning and Subdivision Ordinance on the site with a greater than 3-foot
15 grade differential.
16 Here's an aerial view of the site and as you can see we have a proposed access here which
17 will be a signalized entrance. The site right now is graded it starts at about 26 feet above
18 mean sea level and slopes southwest to approximately 14 feet. At the street level of
19 Goldenwest and the disc golf course that sits at about 39 feet above sea level. To the north
20 you have the rest of the 14-acre area and just north of that you have Shipley Nature Center
21 and then across you can see the Central Library and the Sports Complex. West of the site
22 you have some passive parkland and then further west you have the single-family residential
23 uses.
24
25 The project is a 45,000 square foot building with a proposed access driveway from
26 Goldenwest Street with a signalized entrance. The floor plan includes a community hall and
27 dining room, a fitness area and group exercise room, classrooms, offices, social lounge and a
28
9 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I lobby. There will also be an expansive approximately. 10,000 square foot lawn and open
2 area/patio area.
3
4 The hours of operation will be Monday—Friday 8 am to 4:30 pm with classes extending until
5 approximately 10 pm at night. You also have classes and activities on Saturdays and
6 Sundays and special events are proposed with reservations Sunday-Thursday until 10 pm and
7 Friday and Saturdays until 12 am. The proposed senior center will operate much like the
8 Rodgers Senior Center operates today.
9
10 Here's a look at the elevations. At the highest point, actually the average building height for
11 the elevations range anywhere from 25-30 feet with architectural projections reaching up to
12 about 46 feet. It is in compliance with the HB zoning code for building heights in the open
13 space Parks and Recreation zoning district. It's an aesthetically appealing project with lots
14 of glass, timber, stucco; we have stone and trellis elements. You can see in the bottom
15 picture the elevation you would see from Goldenwest Street and here you have two more
16 elevations. The north elevation, the top one is the view looking from the access driveway
17 onto the senior center site. And then the bottom picture is the south elevation and that's the
18 view looking from the disc golf course.
19
20 On December I I the Planning Commission certified the EIR and approved the Conditional
21 Use Permit with findings and revised conditions. The revised conditions included requiring
22 that the final project design and landscape plans be brought back to the Planning
23 Commission for approval at a non-public hearing. Also, the Planning Commission required
24 the project to be LEED certified. The Planning Commission also approved a CEQA
25 Statement of Findings of Fact along with a Statement of Overriding Considerations.
26
27 To address the appeal, the appeal letter raises the following issues: the EIR which
28 specifically mentions the project description, the alternatives, mitigation measures, impacts
10 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I to wildlife, loss of open space and aesthetics, the Conditional Use Permit and land use
2 compatibility, effects to the Pacific City EIR, consistency with Measure T and Measure C
3 and project funding. I'll just go through each of the appeal points briefly.
4
5 In terms of the EIR and the project description, the EIR was prepared in accordance with
6 CEQA guidelines. For the project description CEQA requires an adequate enough project
7 description to analyze the potential environmental impacts but it doesn't have to necessarily
8 have to be an exhaustive project description but should be able to provide enough details so
9 that the site and the project can be analyzed, which in this case the project goes - it meets
10 that CEQA requirement and goes beyond that. With impacts to wildlife, I think more
11 specifically we're talking about the loss of 5 acres of raptor foraging. Mitigation measure
12 4.3-2 requires the dedication of 5 acres to be conserved and/or enhanced to mitigate for that
13 loss of foraging. That plan has to be approved by a qualified biologist and has to be
14 completed prior to occupancy of this new proposed senior center.
15
16 We also had an issue with loss of open space, loss of aesthetics, and although the project
17 would result in a cumulative aesthetic impact, basically because of the loss of undeveloped
18 park space, undeveloped open space in Central Park, there has to be a Statement of
19 Overriding Considerations required and that's basically a statement saying that the benefits
20 of the proposed project outweigh the negative or adverse impacts.
21
22 In terms of the mitigation measures proposed in the EIR, all mitigation measures insure that
23 the project-specific impacts will be reduced to less than significant levels, and to insure that
24 the mitigation measures are carried out a mitigation monitoring report and program has been
25 prepared.
26
27 In terms of alternatives, three alternatives were considered and provided detailed analysis in
28 the EIR. There was the No Project/Continuation of Uses Allowed by the Existing General
11 "Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509512
I Plan and Master Plan, a Reduced Project, and an alternative site which is at the northwest
2 corner of Ellis and Goldenwest. There were several other alternatives that were discussed
3 briefly in the EIR including reconstruction of the Rodgers site and multiple satellite senior
4 centers but those were determined to be infeasible and those were the three that were
5 provided the more detailed analysis. The No Project/Continuation of Uses Allowed by the
6 Existing General Plan and Master Plan and the Reduced Project both result in less impacts
7 than the proposed senior center project however, they don't necessarily reduce the level of
8 significance of the impacts because just as the project, the impacts could be reduced to less
9 than significant levels.
10
11 In terms of land use compatibility, the project is compatible due to the established
12 recreational land use pattern in the area being that it's directly across the street from the
13 Sports Complex and the Central Library. Furthermore the project will add a senior
14 recreation facility on land uses currently designated for recreational uses but however it will
15 be at a higher intensity and as a result a Central Park Master Plan Amendment will be
16 required because right now the project site is designated low intensity and it will be moved
17 to, it will have to be amended to a high intensity area. Furthermore, the project is consistent
18 with the General Plan goals and policies as well as the Strategic Plan and meets the
19 minimum, meets or exceeds actually the minimum development standards for the
20 Huntington Beach Zoning and Subdivision Ordinance for the open space Parks and
21 Recreation zoning district.
22
23 In terms of Measure T staff did review the Measure T ballot language and also Measure C
24 and shows that the proposed senior center is consistent with both measures.
25
26 In terms of the Pacific City EIR and project funding, the recreation section of the Pacific
27 City EIR, had a mitigation measure to reduce impacts to recreation to less than significant
28 levels through the payment of park fees. Subsequent to the certification of the Pacific City
12 Transcript City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I EIR the applicant of Pacific City entered into an agreement with the city for the payment of
2 park fees, and that also included the construction of the proposed senior center and that was
3 done through an OPA with the city and the Pacific City developer.
4
5 As I mentioned before, a Statement of Overriding Considerations is required by CEQA in
6 order to approve the project so the Statement of Overriding Considerations are the benefits
7 of having the senior center and they are sort of briefly mentioned here. It will provide a new
8 centrally located senior center that will be large enough to meet the changing needs of the
9 population and simultaneously meet the unique developmental needs and diverse interests of
10 these growing senior population. The project also emphasizes compatibility and sensitivity
11 to existing uses surrounding the site and will include a variety of sustainable features to
12 achieve LEED certification.
13
14 With that, staff is recommending the following actions: that the City Council certify EIR
15 #07-002 in accordance with the CEQA guidelines, approve Conditional Use Permit #07-039
16 with findings and approve a CEQA Statement of Findings of Fact with a Statement of
17 Overriding Considerations.
I8
19 As our Planning Director mentioned, staff is available as well as our consultants to answer
20 any questions the City Council may have. That concludes my presentation, thank you.
21
22 Mayor Cook
23 Anybody have any questions before we open the Public Hearing? Council Member Coerper.
24
25 Council Member Coerper
26 Yes I do have and I would ask staff, where did we come up with all the different LEED
27 programs here? I and past Mayor Dave Sullivan indicated it was supposed to have some
28
13 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
15095?2
I LEED program in there — where did we come up with the Plan I Silver, Gold and everything
2 like that. I would like to know where this came up.
3
4 Paul Emery
5 I think Mr. Coerper the direction from the Planning Commission was to request that it be
6 LEED certified and prior to that heard from the City Council in the development of this
7 project. The plans and specifications for this project are far from complete and the direction
8 to the architect has been to include elements that would as a means satisfy the intent of
9 LEED if not meeting LEED certification.
10
11 As a result of the Planning Commission meeting and the request for LEED certification we
12 requested from a consultant, LPA to develop a cost estimate to obtain Silver certification and
13 Gold certification. That information has been provided to you tonight as late
14 communications.
15
16 Council Member Coerper
17 So what you are saying is the Planning Commission made that determination.
18
19 Paul Emery
20 Planning Commission made that a condition of the project. Staff in their efforts identified
21 the cost implications of perfonning that, so that is included.
22
23 Council Member Coerper
24 So it's a partial — it's not mandated that we go with the Gold and spend $500,000 on a LEED
25 certification. Is that correct?
26
27 Paul Emery
28
14 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
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I Planning Commission has recommended that the project be LEED certified. There are cost
2 implications with doing that.
3
4 Council Member Coerper
5 Right.
6
7 Paul Emery
8 Not only certification but the inspection and the actual improvements as well.
9
10 Council Member Coerper
11 OK, we'll go along with that. Until I hear more, thank you.
12
13 Mayor Cook
14 Council Member Green.
15
16 Council Member Green
17 Yes, I guess to follow up on that the LEED certification would cost an additional $330,000
18 one hundred, and for the Gold it's $734,000 almost$735,000 plus whatever else. Is that what
19 that comes out to? I don't know what late communication, this I just found in with our...
20
21 Paul Emery
22 Yes, it is the package. I misspoke with respect to late communication. It is a result of the
23 Planning Commission's request staff attempted to enumerate what the costs to perfonn that
24 would be.
25
26 Council Member Green
27
28
15 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I OK and you have to have a consultant if I read some of this for certain things and everything
2 which adds to the...I think even our December economic conference they were giving us the
3 costs for LEEDs and she was telling what her costs were and...
4
5 Paul Emery
6 They are required for a third party inspector as well as actual application for certification.
7 That is an expense as well, and I'll ask Scott Hess if you have specific numbers for that.
8
9 Scott Hess
10 Yea, actually the handout specifies it to be approximately $80,000 which is included as part
I 1 of the $330,000 estimate on making it minimum LEED certification.
12
13 Council Member Green
14 And from what I've been reading lately they found that certain LEED requirements they're
15 backing off of as people are finding our they are actually not very beneficial in certain areas
16 and they're not necessarily specific to the area you're in. Is that correct? Have you read, 1
17 don't know if you're getting the same...?
18
19 Scott Hess
20 I haven't heard that. I am not quite sure how you are referring to different areas.
21
22 Council Member Green
23 Southern California.
24
25 Scott Hess
26 Different climate areas, yeah. There is a minimum point system of 28 points —26 points to
27 be LEED certified and they do evaluate it every year. I'm not certain if it is geographical
28 specifically, but it is something that is evaluated—the point system—on an annual basis.
16 Transcript-City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
i
2 Council Member Green
3 I've heard there's some problems with certain things that they had required and have now
4 finding out they are really not saving in fact they may be using more energy so. Anyway, I
5 thought I had forwarded those on, obviously I didn't.
6
7 Mayor Cook
8 Council Member Coerper
9 And I apologize I was going to ask this other question. Does that $300,000 come out of our
10 budget or do we get grants or $780,000 where does that come from? I'm looking if you will
11 before you answer that. I support the LEED program but I can't see taking a million dollars
12 just to get a certification of a building that I, by the way, do remember seeing something on
13 what Council Member Green is talking about. I'd hate like heck to take a lot of money out
14 when we are actually wasting money. I think we should have it go more into the building
15 and have a state of the art building rather than a state of the art LEED program. That's what
16 I'm asking you.
17
18 Paul Emery
19 Well it's certainly at the discretion of the City Council with respect to the certification and
20 the magnitude of energy efficiency of green building techniques that are incorporated into
21 the facility. There is a project budget and there are costs associated with those
22 improvements,just as there is a return on some of the investment in those improvements.
23
24 Council Member Coerper
25 Thank you very much.
26
27 Mayor Cook
28 Council Member Carchio.
17 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
50952.2
1
2 Council Member Carchio
3 Jennifer just correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure that you guys took the time when you
4 designed the building that you took the LEEDs into consideration. Am I correct in that?
5 You did it to LEED specifications.
6
7 Paul Emery
8 Let me if I could Jennifer, the building is not completely designed. We're at a very early
9 stage with respect to the design of the facility. We do not have specifications with regard to
10 the lighting ballast, or the toilets or the carpeting that is utilized.
11
12 Council Member Carchio
13 No, I can appreciate that but what I am saying is that we are doing this ourselves to use
14 LEED standards, am I correct?
15
16 Paul Emery
17 The direction from the City Council prior to the Planning Commission's action was to utilize
18 LEED techniques in the construction of the facility. It was not necessarily to obtain LEED
19 certification. Now the direction from the Planning Commission is to obtain LEED
20 certification. Those programs, those components of the building, will have to be completely
21 designed and engineered to determine how we get to that point system and at what cost.
22
23 Council Member Carchio
24 But what I'm trying to say is that you are, you did use LEED techniques to get to the point
25 that we are now.
26
27 Paul Emery
28 LEED gives you points for certain elements of a facility.
Is Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
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1
2 Council Member Carchio
I'm not arguing—I know what LEED does, I'm not arguing that point with you, what I'm
4 trying to get out of you is this, we are using those techniques the same as LEED would use.
5
6 Paul Emery
7 There are components of the facility that will take into account programmatic and physical
8 improvements that would be credited for LEED in the points.
9
10 Council Member Carchio
11 I just think that there should be some sort of cap put on this. I don't think that they should
12 have carte blanch I mean_ I was at the same meeting Council Member Green was at and
13 many other Council people were at and just to have the consultant come and certify it she
14 said I believe was like $90,000. Now to me that is kind of a waste of money to have these
15 people come and certify when our Planning Department knows exactly how to follow LEED
16 standards and we can do it to our specifications and we can follow the LEED standards. If
17 you want to do this and you want a LEED certification you need to put a cap on it. I mean
18 you just can't let them charge whatever you want to charge.
19
20 Paul Emery
21 That's certainly at the Council's discretion and that is an action that can be taken.
22
23 Mayor Cook
24 Council Woman Hardy.
25
26 Council Woman Hardy
27 I had a question about the use of the site. It's five acres and the building itself is about 1
28 acre, correct?
19 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952-2
1
2 Jennifer Villasenor
3 Yes, the building footprint is about 1 acre.
4
5 Council Woman Hardy
6 OK, so the other 4 acres are for parking lot?
7
8 Jennifer Villasenor
9 Parking and landscaping.
10
11 Council Woman Hardy
12 OK, about how much of those 4 acres are landscaping?
13
14 Jennifer Villasenor
15 Two is parking, 1 is the building footprint and the rest would be landscaping.
16
17 Council Woman Hardy
18 So you mentioned the 10,000 square foot lawn would be part of that 2 acres so that's a fourth
19 of an acre. Is the rest of the landscaping, is it you know is it a tree in the middle of the
20 parking lot and all those add up. Are there any other large areas of landscaping?
21
22 Jennifer Villasenor
23 We don't have final landscape plans yet. We do have conceptual. Part of the landscape
24 plans that we have seen and which includes all of the landscaping area are perimeter trees
25 around the entire project site, parking lot landscaping, the bioswales, which act as a natural
26 treatment system for water but they look kind of like grass strips, we have the lawn, there's
27 also proposed a natural meadow and that's probably another 10,000 square feet so all of that
28 in total includes the 2 acres or so of landscaping on the site.
20 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
1
2 Council Woman Hardy
3 OK and then one other question I had right now. The grading you said that will from the
4 highest point of the site is 26.
5
6 Jennifer Villasenor
7 It's approximately 26 feet yes.
8
9 Council Woman Hardy
10 OK, so it's about 13 feet from Goldenwest because you said that was 39 right?
11
12 Jennifer Villasenor
13 Yes.
14
15 Council Woman Hardy
16 If someone is on foot say, gets dropped off by bus on Goldenwest or is the library —how will
17 they, what is the plan to get them to street level and the 13 feet down?
18
19 Jennifer Villasenor
20 There will be a walkway adjacent to the access driveway. It will be ADA accessible so that
21 will be the method of getting people from the street right to the front door.
22
23 Council Woman Hardy
24 OK, so they will pretty much go down the access road.
25
26 Jennifer Villasenor
27 Yes.
28
21 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952-2
I Council Woman Hardy
2 And there will be on the side kind of a dedicated area?
3
4 Jennifer Villasenor
5 Yes it will be dedicated ADA accessible.
6
7 Council Woman Hardy
8 My last two questions and I'm not sure you can answer it as this point. My questions are
9 how far is it to walk from the street level to any entrance in the senior center and then the
10 other question is how far is it to walk from the farthest parking spot to the nearest entrance
11 into the senior center— and I'm not sure if you have those.
12
13 Jennifer Villasenor
14 When I last checked I think that when I calculated the setback I'm going to say its about 200
15 feet. I could be a bit off but it could probably be between 200-250 feet say from the farthest
16 parking space to the front door.
17
18 Council Woman Hardy
19 OK and any idea from Goldenwest down the access walkway?
20
21 Jennifer Villasenor
22 Probably around the same, maybe 300 feet.
23
24 Council Woman Hardy
25 OK, thank you.
26
27 Mayor Cook
28 Council Member Green.
22 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
1
2 Council Member Green
3 Yes are you still planning on using a mix of California native and non-native drought
4 tolerant vegetation and then you've got the natural meadow and expansive lawn, garden,
5 fountain and barbeque area and trellis areas are those still...?
6
7 Jennifer Villasenor
8 So far those are still part of the plans. Those are part of the plans that the Planning
9 Commission saw and approved. We haven't seen the final landscape plan however in the
10 code requirements letter they are required to put drought tolerant plants and its also been
I 1 advised to have a mix of non-native and native drought tolerant.
12
13 Council Member Green
14 OK and those plants go directly back to the Planning Commission right?
15
16 Jennifer Villasenor
17 Yes the final project design including landscaping designs will go back to the Planning
18 Commission.
19
20 Council Member Green
21 Thank you.
22
23 Mayor Cook
24 Council Member Coerper.
25
26 Council Member Coerper
27 You just made a statement on the handicapped getting down to the facilities. How will that,
28 I mean you're talking 20 feet 30 feet. 30 feet. 13 going back and forth? Straight down?
23 Transcript--City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
1
2 Jennifer Villasenor
3 It will be a gradual slope. It has to be per the ADA requirement. It can't be greater than a
4 certain percentage of slope. So it's kind of a wide walkway and it's north of the access
5 driveway to give it more room to make a gradual slope. If you can picture that.
6
7 Council Member Coerper
8 I'm trying to fathom what you are talking about.
9
10 Jennifer Villasenor
11 Sure.
12
13 Council Member Coerper
14 You have the street shelf up here and we have the building 13 feet down, or did I
15 misunderstand?
16
17 Jennifer Villasenor
18 Yea, if you look at your site plan which is the first map on the wall.
19
20 Council Member Coerper
21 Right.
22
23 Jennifer Villasenor
24 You'll see the access driveway here. The ADA ramp is going to be north of the access
25 driveway and it comes around this way to the senior center site and because it's further out.
26
27 Council Member Coerper
28 Right here? This is the road?
24 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1504522
1
2 Jennifer Villasenor
3 This is the access right here.
4
5 Council Member Coerper
6 OK so her it is right here. I'm talking about — now you say access...
7
8 Jennifer Villasenor
9 This is the driveway access here.
10
11 Council Member Coerper
12 It's 13 feet down this way.
13
14 Unknown female
15 Yes.
16
17 Council Member Coerper
18 In grade`? That's quite a ways for a wheelchair I mean it's going to have to now back and
19 forth I could understand.
20
21 Jennifer Villasenor
22 It won't be required to go back and forth. This project has been designed so that the ramp is
23 north of the access driveway it goes right along adjacent to the access driveway and comes
24 this way and it allows to have less of a slope. And also you don't have to have the zig zag
25 back and forth.
26
27 Council Member Coerper
28
25 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
I OK, That's what I wondered about because I was thinking that would have to be kind of
2 dangerous for them to, even for me to walk down there. Thank you.
3
4 Mayor Cook
5 Council Member Hardy.
6
7 Council Woman Hardy
8 You also mentioned the lowest point on the site is 14 feet above sea level right? So will
9 there be a 12 foot raise at that site to make it level?
10
11 Jennifer Villasenor
12 No what we're proposing is at the western project site boundary there will be a slight grade
13 and that's sort of just to give it the site a little bit of privacy or sort of a separation from the
14 passive park to the west without having to put a barrier, a physical barrier such as a fence.
15 It'll drop off I believe it's less than 10 feet but it'll be a gradual berm— landscaping berm.
16
17 Council Woman Hardy
18 Sort of similar to what's behind the library.
19
20 Jennifer Villasenor
21 Yes but it will probably be a different type of landscaping.
22
23 Council Woman Hardy
24 Right, but as far as the drop off.
25
26 Jennifer Villasenor
27 Probably less of a slope as well.
28
26 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I Mayor Cook
2 OK then, we are going to go ahead and open the Public Hearing.
3
4
5 Mayor Cook
6 OK then, we are going to go ahead and open the Public Hearing.
7
8 Public Hearing on Senior Center
9
10 City Clerk
I I I would like to read into the record again the fact that we have received communications by
12 54 individuals stating opinions pertaining to the Huntington Beach Senior Center project,
13 they're listed on your late communications sheet except for Mr. Chad Holcomb and Michael
14 McMann who sent theirs in after the packet was printed. Any other late communications
15 which were received by our office after 3:00 p.m. this afternoon will be kept in the City
16 Clerk's office and available to the public; also scanned into the record. This evening we
17 have 38 speakers, and I would like to call the first eight. There has been some confusion
18 also; I've had two people approach met with the misunderstanding that they could share
19 time, so I would like to just reiterate that the agenda says there is no sharing of time, no
20 donating of time to another person.
21
22 Tom Livengood
23 My name is Tom Livengood. I'm Chairman of the Planning Commission, and I am
24 representing the Commission this evening. The Planning Commission approved the Senior
25 Center EIR, CUP and CEQA statement as the statement made this evening. Members of the
26 Commission strongly supported the green building condition. Under this condition a project
27 shall meet minimum LEED's requirements. There seems to be some confusion on it— that
28 all is focused on a building. Some of the LEED's requirements is bus transportation, which
27 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
I is automatically provided by the Senior Center. It's recycling, which we have a program
2 within the city that meets that LEED's standards. Also, there's construction waste
3 management. There's several things that are set up within the city where contractors can
4 take their items within the city, and that also gets the LEED's requirements. There seems to
5 be some confusion on the dollars. As I read into it, the $330,000 dollars is the entire amount
6 which does include that high figure, 80 thousand dollars for a LEED's professional. But the
7 total cost is $ 330,000 dollars to meet the first level. In 2007 the Planning Commission
8 formed a subcommittee to research green building standards, surveyed other cities, reviewed
9 LEED's certification and cost involved. A lot of study went into it. A recommendation was
10 submitted to the council. The council formed an ad hoc committee to implement the plan.
11 Also approved a position to support the program. To encourage builders to build to green
12 standards it is important that the City Council require the Senior Center meet the first level
13 of green certification. The estimated additional cost, as discussed, is $ 330,000 total. When
14 plans were submitted to retrofit this building, city hall, the council agreed to additional funds
15 to provide for the highest level of design for the building. The message to the building
16 industry was that the city wants the highest level of design for projects in the city. If the
17 Council approves the Senior Center project, it is important that the project be green certified.
18 This will encourage builders to participate in this program. If the building is not green
19 certified, the builders response may be "Why should we meet green standards when the city
20 will not." Surveying other cities, many of them use public buildings to demonstrate that
21 buildings meeting green building standards is cost effective and a plus for the environment.
22 Again, the Commission requests that the commissions request not be deleted. Thank you.
23
24 Council Member Green
25 I hate to put you on a spot, but was this a unanimous opinion of this LEED's building
26 standard?
27
28 Tom Livengood
28 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
I No, it was not.
2
3 Council Member Green
4 Did you yourself vote for it?
5
6 Tom Livengood
7 No.
8
9 Council Member Green
10 OK, but you did want the green building standard. Where I'm confused about is, I heard
11 "Green building standard", and then"LEED's", which are two different things. Correct?
12
13 Tom Livengood
14 I think the discussion on the Commission level was mandatory, shall, will, should you; and
15 from my point of view the wording didn't come up right , but I think the intent of every
16 member of the commission was LEED's Certified. And the reason I say that is because I
17 served on the subcommittee. We recommended to the Planning Commission that is should
18 meet LEED's standards. And then the discussion got into it, should it be a shall, should it be
19 a will, should it be required? And that is where the discussion went on that area. But again,
20 what the Commission's feeling was that if we don't do this for this building, then the
21 program may as well die. You're saying, we can't afford this, we can't do this, then
22 anybody who's putting a project in this city should be able to say the same thing.
23
24 Council Member Green
25 But if we built it to green standards, and had the flexibility to get the newest technology,
26 would that not be better than to LEED's standards which might not be.
27
28 Tom Livengood
29 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I Well, what's happened within the United States, and other people can discuss that, there is a
2 set of standards that needs to be met that is a minimum. When you go thru this project and
3 you're providing a lot of these things and it's not an expense to the building, some of these
4 things don't cost anything. We're into a heavy recycling program in this city now, three
5 trash cans and all that sort of thing, that meets the standards. Certain kinds of toilets and
6 they don't cost that much money, then they meet this LEED's standards. So, LEED's
7 standards, not green standards, was the level the commission voted on. And I think the
8 majority on the commission, including myself, felt that it should meet LEED's standards.
9 The debate was, what wording do you put in front of that.
10
11 Council Member Green
12 Whether it's mandatory or not—that's what the discussion was — whether it was mandatory
13 or not?
14
15 Tom Livengood
16 Yes, I wouldn't go to mandatory, that's where you get into semantics, what came up was that
17 we got the word "shall" in there.
18
19 Council Member Green
20 OK.
21
22 Tom Livengood
23 And the final was that I voted for the overall project because I felt that this is the kickoff if
24 we are going to have a green building program in the city.
25
26 Council Member Green
27 OK, thank you.
28
30 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I Councilman Coerper
2 Tom, based on what you just said, do you feel that the LEED's program will pay for itself in
3 a lifetime?
4
5 Tom Livengood
6 Well, I think some statistics come up that are shorter than that. Now, it depends on the
7 lifetime and the age of the person, but I think overall, some of it's long range, but it's
8 proven, and the feeling is that the impact on the city is positive when you go thru this
9 process. Because of the transportation requirements, and the way the building is built, the
10 utilities that are required to operate this building, there are all kinds of savings involved that
I I really impact and are a plus for the city.
12
13 Council Member Coerper
14 Thank you very much.
15
16 April Bautista
17 Good evening Mayor Cook and City Council members, members of the Planning team, my
18 name is April Baautista, and I am a student at Goldenwest College and unlike my other
19 classmates, I did do some research and I do support the Senior Center, and I do appreciate
20 the idea that you do want to have a facility dedicated to the senior citizens, however, I
21 believe that the estimated $23 million should be more dedicated to preserving the parks, such
22 as Irby and Bartlett. And as I stated before you're spending lots of money on landscaping
23 which also could be used for landscaping at the other parks as well. I don't know if this
24 would affect the Shipley's Nature Center, and we did have a discussion earlier talking about
25 the Monarch birds, and you did donate money to help replant the trees there. And I believe
26 this would add traffic along Goldenwest Street—and I know a lot of people use that as a sub
27 route instead of Beach Boulevard. I support the email by Michael M. that there should be
28 more studies done at cost before deciding whether we should go on. It is obvious that we
31 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
I have problems discussing the LEED buildings. I also appreciate the studies about the three
2 alternative locations. I know I have not been at the previous City Council meetings, but 1
3 would like to hear more of the decisions made and the inforination about the alternate
4 buildings and that would be it. Thank you for your time.
5
6 Mark Allen
7 I'm Mark Allen and I represent Parks Legal Defense Fund. I have a PowerPoint and I'm
8 going to kind of blast thru it. The first thing I want to talk about is the vote. This is the
9 actual ballot language and I want to focus on one thing: "following City Council approval of
10 all entitlements and environmental review". Let's first look at this first one: "City Council
11 approval". One of the things that didn't happen was that this was not noticed for City
12 Council approval. It was sent to the Planning Commission. I don't know what the effect of
13 that is; legally I haven't researched it, but I will note that it didn't happen, and I'll also note
14 that there is a question as to what the City Council has jurisdiction over: whether it's just the
15 matters on appeal or whether the City Council can decide this de novo and whether the
16 notice is proper if it is de novo.
17
18 The second thing is that it was supposed to happen after"environmental review". Now,
19 right now, what is being said is that it means that "after environmental review even if serious
20 environmental issues are discovered". That is the case here. Serious environmental issues
21 were discovered. The voters never voted on this particular project. The public was never
22 informed that the preferable environmental option was to not build the project, nor were they
23 informed that there were serious adverse environmental impacts. The voters,just as you do,
24 have a legal right to know that the environmental impacts are before they vote, not after.
25 And the project simply cannot go forward without a vote.
26
27 1 also think there's a little bit of a hoax here. Because I think it is very questionable whether
28 the money that's being expected is actually going to show up. We've had a big slowdown in
32 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02104/2008
1509522
I residential construction. I represent public agencies, I also represent developers. I think you
2 are making a big mistake if you count on a large, 500-unit residential project to fund much of
3 anything right now. To give you an idea of how big that is, another project that you've
4 undoubtedly heard of, the Shea project in Bolsa Chica is 171 units, or maybe 161 units, but it
5 is a much, much smaller project and that project is now problematic because of economics.
6
7 The final think I want to point out is the CUP. The CUP says it complies with land use
8 approvals. It doesn't.
9
10 Mayor Cook
I I Can you tell me why?
12
13 Mark Alien
14 Yes. The definition for this type of open space zone is for a non-commercial park and
15 recreational use. It mentions playgrounds, park and recreational use. It doesn't mention
16 anything about the activities that will actually take place in this project. What this project is
17 that it has a banquet facility, it has schools, it has dance facilities, it has exercise facilities, it
18 is not a park and recreational use. If you actually look at what the code says you're
19 supposed to put those things under, they're different categories. Banquet facility is a
20 commercial, entertainment, and food category. Schools are a separate category. Dancing
21 facilities are a separate category. Exercise places are a separate category. And it is not true
22 that this is non-commercial. In fact, according to what I read in the record, in order for this
23 project to go forward, there has to be a commercial element for it.
24
25 Mayor Cook
26 Mr. Allen, could you explain something to me. A resident showed me a book that explains
27 how Mella-Roos fees can be used in communities. And it has an exception. It basically says
28 you are not allowed to use Mella-Roos funds to mitigate for these kinds of things—these
33 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
I facilities where you have already identified a need and then you come in after the fact: and
2 then try to use a Mella-Roos to fund that community facility because it is not really
3 mitigating the new development, it is for something that is already an existing condition.
4 But the city argues that, because they are a Charter City, they are allowed to basically Mite
5 an ordinance that allows them to ignore the law. Do you know if anyone has ever litigated
6 on that issue? I know that ...
7
8 Mark Allen
9 Yes. There is a principal of California Law that gives certain rights to Charter Cities which
10 other types of cities, called General Law Cities, don't have. And essentially, what that has to
11 do with is whether it is a local matter and whether it directly conflicts with state law., The
12 question would be "Would this directly conflict with State Law?" And the Mella-Roos law
13 itself is pretty clear, that the only thing Mella-Roos funds are supposed to do, they're
14 supposed to be for the particular subdivision. Now, that doesn't mean it has to be physically
15 in the subdivision. For example, you could fund a freeway onramp if your development
16 affected the freeway onramp, which might not be exactly in your development. It would be
17 something that is related to the actual impact or use that your actual subdivision had. For
18 example, you can't go and say that you are building a new subdivision, and as a condition
19 we want you to do a Mella-Roos bond to build us a new city hall. You can't do that. You
20 also can't do things that already need to be built or are in the process of being built.
21
22 Mayor Cook
23 So, in your opinion, does this directly conflict with state law, the fact that the city has ...
24
25 Mark Allen
26 In my opinion, it would directly conflict with state law because Mella-Roos and some of the
27 other laws that we've discussed,Quimby, are designed to deal with specific subdivisions and
28 they are designed to deal with the impacts of the particular subdivision.
34 Transcript City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
1
2 Mayor Cook
3 OK, thank you.
4
5 Council Member Carchio
6 So, in other words, sir, if I understand you correctly about the Mella-Roos, if there are
7 people that are living in those new condominiums that are senior citizens that are going to be
8 able to use that complex, would they qualify to use the Mella-Roos for that?
9
10 Mark Allen
11 Are you talking about the park? Here's what the answer is. In order for you to show —the
12 usual term that is used is the constitutional term which is nexus, which comes from two
13 cases, which is the Nolan case and the Dollan case, which both use the term nexus. And
14 what that means is that there has to be a connection, a rational connection, between the
15 particular activity and this particular thing that you want to do. Now that's a constitutional
16 standard, it's not really the statutory standard; they're a little bit different. Here's the
17 problem, unless you can show that most of the people there are going to be senior citizens,
18 then you are in exactly the same situation that Mr. Nolan was in when he fought the
19 California Coastal Commission. Patenol owned a house on the beach. And the Coastal
20 Commission said "Look. You walk along the beach. You know, you're going to use that
21 beach. We think it is only fair that you provide lateral access along that beach to other
22 people. That line of reasoning was specifically rejected by the Supreme Court. Now again,
23 that's a constitutional issue, it's not directly related to the statutory issue, like the one we've
24 got here. As far as I know, there is not a case on the specific issue here.
25
26 Council Member Carchio
27 So, there isn't any percentages that say there has to be so many percentages of senior citizens
28 to qualify for the Mella-Roos, to use the funds for the senior center.
35 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
1
2 Mark Allen
3 What the court would do is that they would look at how the city has actually done this in the
4 past, and I have looked over what the city has done in the past and just for an example, in
5 December, when you were analyzing recreational needs connection with the Naylor Act, you
6 went thru and you did things by area and you looked at the needs in each particular area.
7 There was never a situation in which (that I can find) the city took a development in one
8 particular area and then took all of the in-lieu funds from that area and put it to a particular
9 group. For example, if half the people in there were equestrians, it wouldn't be valid to take
10 the money and put it all in the equestrian center. If some of the people surf, it wouldn't be
I I valid to put it all into some activity on the beach. Or all for fishing boats for people who
12 fish.
13
14 Council Member Carchio
15 But eventually, everyone who moves into those condominiums are eventually going to be
16 senior citizens. Right?
17
18
19 Mark Allen
20 Well the question is, if that is the case, then what you're saying is that any project in the city,
21 you can take all their in-lieu fees and give them to senior citizens because they're all going
22 to be senior citizens. Then we should give the money to cemeteries, because they eventually
23 will all be dead.
24
25 Council Member Carchio
26 But you're giving us technicalities, and that's all I'm giving you is technicalities. We can
27 back and forth on this.
28
36 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I Mayor Cook
2 Well actually we're just talking about the Mella-Roos law which actually does say that CFDs
3 can only be used to mitigate the impacts of the new development. They cannot be used to be
4 a tool to require new development to pay for.pre-existing needs that the city already had and
5 we have clearly identified senior centers as a pre-existing need in the community. We've
6 been working on this for 10 years. So it definitely was a pre-existing need. So the
7 discussion then is really around the fact that the city has a charter, and is a charter city, and
8 can somehow avoid following a Melia-Roos,law that would not allow this kind of financing.
9 OK — thank you very much.
10
11 Kristin Stilton
12 Kristin Stilton, Huntington Beach. Mayor Crook and Councilmembers: The City's prepared
13 remarks on the Senior Center says that funding issues should not be part of the EIR
14 discussion — they are. #1: This project would not be under consideration if not for the
15 improper earmark of Makar Quimby fees to pay for the project. The side arrangement of the
16 Community Facilities District and Melia-Roos taxes on the residents notwithstanding. #2:
17 The costs represented only cover the building and not site related preparation and
18 corrections, major grade change, drainage, soil compactions issues, egress, ingress, traffic
19 mitigation, staff increases, ongoing maintenance of this much larger facility, etc.
20 Quimby fees are intended for acquisition, development or rehabilitation of city park and
21 recreational facilities. The EIR for Pacific City is very specific on Quimby and nexus. The
22 Pacific City EIR Quimby obligation "facilities will be provided in locations that bear a
23 reasonable relationship to the use of park and recreational facilities by future inhabitants of
24 the subdivision generating such dedication of land or payment or fee or both." This project
25 does not fulfill the Pacific City EIR requirements. Pacific City EIR section 3.13 on
26 recreation references our city's park acreage shortage and points to the city of Huntington
27 Beach parks strategy and fee nexus study of 2001 as a source for applying the Quimby fees.
28 Per Dave Dominguez, this document's methodology are still valid in setting budgets and
37 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952-2
I project priorities today. There are 27 specific projects referenced and prioritized and the
2 senior center is not one of those. A separate review of 8 specific projects with input from
3 community members, broken down by area, age, demographics list the senior center.as the
4 8th most important out of the 8 projects. Areas where Quimby funds were needed in 2001:
5 a skate park— 21.4% of the respondents used the skate park—this was before we closed it
6 down. Bluff top park, 23.6%, and the biggest was Edison Community Center with a 49.8%
7 usage, and it was also listed as being in fair to poor condition, lacking in ongoing
8 maintenance. Edison should have been a consideration above the senior center as it snore
9 adequately fulfills the nexus to Pacific City. Rogers only received a 10.9% usage rating.
10 The current Rodgers Center has 14,000 sq. ft. It has empty parking most hours I pass by. It
I 1 is underutilized, or at least not maximally programmed. How many unique visitors does it
12 have? If the LPA states our senior population is growing from 2005 to 2020 by 64%, why
13 not take that 64% and apply it to the current square footage equating to a 23,000 sq ft
14 building, not the 45,000 sq ft building proposed. The Senior Center as proposed is too much
15 project, too much money, not enough transparency, bad politics, bad for Huntington Beach's
16 overall goals and plans.
17
18 Mayor Cook:
19 Miss Stilton. On that community survey that the city did on those eight projects, where did
20 seniors rank the senior center?
21
22 Kristin Stilton
23 Seniors also ranked the Senior Center as one of the last of the eight items. In fact, seniors
24 across the board rated everyone of the 8 projects pretty low, versus some young families that
25 rated them all relatively higher. But the senior center— residents 60 and over did not rate the
26 senior center as one of their most important projects.
27
28 Mayor Cook
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I Thank you.
2
3 Council Member Carchio
4 In that survey that they did for the city and how they ranked the seniors, did you also look at
5 how they rank other senior centers in other cities where they have newer senior centers?
6
7 Kristin Stilton
8 1 don't remember seeing that in the Nexus Fee Study. They did have a whole section on how
9 other cities utilize their Quimby funds, and it got much more specific in the nexus that other
10 cities had for Quimby relative to what's being discussed today.
11
12 Council Member Carchio
13 I was just wondering how they viewed the newer Senior Centers compared to the older
14 senior center that we have here and what the ability of the people to get there—
15
16 Kristin Stilton
17 It's a 136 page report and it is not part of the survey. It mentions that the senior center be
18 looked at as future case. My concern is that we have no money in our Parks budget now to
19 build a skate park and someone has made the decision to take at least $22 million for this
20 project— it is like putting all the eggs in one basket and that's not fair to all of us.
21
22 Mayor Cook
23 Thank you.
24
25 Dean Albright
26 Good evening Mayor and City Council, my name is Dean Albright. Was the hydrology, not
27 just the specific project, but the entire area, taken into consideration? What you're talking
28 about is putting a berm on the west side of the project. Where does the water from the
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I parking lot run? Looking at the problem we had with the overfill of the Blackburn pond and
2 the Shipley Nature Center, that was due to runoff coming down off Goldenwest and also
3 due to the ground water table. So, will that water from the parking lot flow into the park
4 itself? That would have some impact with the oil and stuff from the parking lot flowing into
5 the park from this project. Thank you.
6
7 Cathy Meschuk
8 Good evening Mayor Cook and Council Members. I'm Cathy Meschuk. First of a11, I
9 would like to say that for any of you that have been at the Rodgers Senior Center that you
10 definitely do know that it is a recreational facility. I would like to commend the city on the
11 services you provide for HB seniors. All of the staff at the Rodger's Senior Center and the
12 Outreach Center do an incredible job. However, they are out of space. The meals to the
13 homes cannot add another route. There's classes that need to be added that can't be added
14 due to the lack of space to hold them. Exercise classes are so full that they take up the whole
15 entire major room at Rodger's. Volunteers play a mayor role in the delivery of services to
16 our senior community. In 2007, volunteers contributed over 45,400 hours. Based on last
17 year's California hourly rate of 19.75 dollars per hour, that is worth a little over $ 896,650.00
18 to the city of HB. Both the need for services and volunteers will continue to increase over
19 the future. We are past time for a new senior center, and I sincerely recommend that the City
20 Council certify the EIR_ Thank you
21
22 Joe Shaw
23 Good evening Mayor and City Council, my name is Joe Shaw. I am here tonight as a private
24 citizen and not as a representative of the Planning Commission. This council, under the
25 leadership of former Mayor Coerper signed on to the US Mayor's Agreement on Climate
26 Protection. And by doing so, declared its intentions to reduce the effects of greenhouse
27 gasses in the city of HB. This is your chance to live up to those standards. I urge the council
28 to maintain the requirement to build the senior center as a LEED's certified green building.
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I Logic dictates that if we build a new city building, especially one in our largest park, we
2 should build it as energy efficient and water efficient as possible, and use materials that do
3 not harm the environment and produce more greenhouse gas. Especially when we are
4 creating a center that can only be visited by a car or a van. Considering the inevitable
5 increased cost of water and energy in the future, building a LEED's certified building is the
6 fiscally responsible thing to do. As to the cost of LEED's certification, this Council is
7 chasing a red herring. If Councilman Carchio's estimate of$90,000 is correct, that's 0.5%
8 of the total. That's negligible, those costs are negligible. As a matter of fact, Makar may be
9 giving us a much as $38 million, not $22 million. The city of Santa Monica won the 2007
10 clean air award for its green building program. Santa Monica is home to the first leadership
I 1 in energy and environmental design, which is what LEED means; its home to the first
12 certified park in the nation. It also has two LEED's certified buildings and five more under
13 construction. In fact, the City Council and Planning Commission visited a LEED's certified
14 building in Santa Monica when researching our new green initiatives. Santa Monica is a
15 leader in green building. HB should take this opportunity to be a leader among Orange
16 County cities. Let's take this opportunity and build a LEED's certified Senior Center.
17 Thank you for your time.
18
19 Milt Dardis
20 Honorable Mayor, distinguished City Council, my name is Milt Dardis. I want to thank the
21 city staff for presenting the report they did tonight, however, I have several questions_ What
22 is basically going to be the cost per square foot? If we're getting $21 million dollars and
23 we're looking at a 45,000 square foot. Average construction cost would be $30 per square
24 foot, or roughly $1.3 million. Now, if we double it and want to make it more affluent, we're
25 looking at $2.7 million. Where is the balance of the money going to go? Second question
26 is: We're looking at gridlock here. We have the city library, we have the sports complex,
27 and now we're going to have a senior center on Goldenwest. Now, we're talking about
28 senior drivers, we're looking a rear-end collisions. Why wasn't consideration given for the
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l Ellis extension area? Also, what about the other project costs? The soft costs, the
2 contingency costs, the escalation, the engineering costs, the design and permit fees, the
3 inspections costs, the projected administration, construction and administration management
4 costs? Who's going to bear these costs? We, the tax payers? Who pays the operating costs
5 when this building is built? We, the tax payers? Who pays the change notices? Now, if
6 you're in construction, the change notice is a notice that is affected by you, the owner, to
7 make changes. Who pays those? We, the tax payers? As far as we're concerned, and many
8 of us believe, what is the size of our senior population in this geographical, demographical
9 area? Is it 6%, is it 10%, is it 25%? Why can't we put the senior center where the seniors
10 are located? The last question I have: What's going to happen to the existing senior center?
11 Is it going to be torn down and returned to a park or is it going to be sold off to developers
12 and turned into condominiums? Again, thank you for your time, and I do appreciate your
13 concern. Thank you.
14
15
16 Merle Moshiri
17 Mayor Cook, members of the City Council, my name is Merle Moshin. I am a 35-year
18 resident of HB and a senior citizen. The largest contingency of senior citizens is in the
19 landmark development in southeast HB. That doesn't even include two very large mobile
20 home parks. Landmark is one to two blocks from Kettler Elementary School. An empty
21 school, up for sale, and comes with over $2 million dollars in recent renovations. This
22 school co joins Edison Park. It seems like a good fit_ Instead we are faced with a
23 proposition to build a 45,000 sq. ft. monolith in Central Park. It has been suggested in a
24 moment of outrageous hubris that those who oppose the senior center just don't like seniors.
25 Well, I like myself, but I oppose the senior center where it's going to be built. I think we
26 need something for them, but not of this size. Perhaps it is simply a case that some of us
27 seniors don't require a monument to ourselves. We are content to let our footprint be a
28
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1 genetic one that we are leaving behind children and grandchildren who also will walk softly
2 on our earth. Thank you.
3
4 Mike Sloan
5 Mayor Cook and members of the council, my name is Mike Sloan and I've lived in HB for a
6 long time. Just three points that I would like to mention. The voters were offered a senior
7 center built on park land subject to a favorable EIR. What is being proposed is not a senior
8 center, but as the planning department puts it, a multigenerational facility that will be rented
9 out for weddings, bar mitzvahs and parties. The phrase "senior center" sounds quiet,
10 peaceful and in keeping with the setting of a park. A rental hall for weddings and parties
I 1 does not. The sports complex across from the proposed site was sold to the public as a boon
12 to our cities young people, but it is just a rental facility. I teach high school here in HB and I
13 don't know even one of my student athletes who's ever played on those fields. Just as those
14 against the sports complex were characterized as being indifferent to the needs of our kids,
15 opponents of the senior center were vilified as not caring about our seniors. Point two:
16 Voters were told "Good news. Your vote on Measure T will not cost you one cent.
17 Although funding is not part of the ballot measure, it is anticipated that financing will come
18 from developer fees owed to the city, not taxes." However, it is my understanding that from
19 the discussion of Mr. Allen and other people who knows, the agreement between Makar and
20 the city contains language that will allow the Quimby obligation for the Senior Center to be
21 paid for by taxing future residents of Pacific City via a Mella-Roos tax. Point three: Even
22 though the Planning Commission has accepted the EIR, it is not a favorable one. The EIR
23 notes that the aesthetic impact of the center will be significant. An acre, as we all know, is
24 roughly the size of a football field, so the project will replace 5 football fields of precious
25 park space with pavement. The building itself will cover one of those football fields and will
26 be 46 feet high, 3 times the height of that wall. It will be visible from all over the park. It
27 will be noisy. It will create traffic tie-ups. It will destroy wildlife habitat. It will change
28 dramatically for the worse the lives of people who live around it. It will be a painful loss of
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1 so9s2-2
I open space for coming generations. It will be an elephant in our collective living roorn and
2 our planning department's endless list of mitigations will be like following that elephant
3 around with a scoop shovel and a wheelbarrow. I respectfully urge you to act to give us
4 what we voted for— a true senior center, one that will receive a favorable EIR, at one of the
5 alternative sites under consideration, one that will not result in new taxes, one that will be a
6 credit to our city, and not a blight on HB's landscape. I thank you for your listening, I really
7 do appreciate it.
8
9 Mary Jo Baretich
10 Good evening City Council members, my name is Mary Jo Baretich, I am a senior resident
i 1 of HB. First of all, the city needs to take the lead in building an energy efficient and
12 environmentally friendly structure. The city should recognize the value of the land. This
13 center does none of this_ As proposed, this structure resembles a sterile office building
14 totally out of character with the surrounding land use. If built, the building needs to fit the
15 contour of the Iand and should be covered with grass to minimize its impacts on the
16 surrounding park, and leave the invaluable open space at the level of Goldenwest-Street
17 unchanged. It should have a LEED's certification.
18
19 Secondly, as proposed, the Quimby Act in-lieu funds will be used properly and possible
20 illegally. In-lieu fees thru the Quimby Act cannot be used in such a way as to result in a net
21 decrease in available park land. The proposed use is supposed to be to develop and upgrade
22 parks in the immediate district of the development which is Pacific City. Also, the Mella-
23 Roos funds are not supposed to be used to pay for the maintenance or the running of the
24 senior center. The CFD would be the Pacific City area, and the Mella-Roos funds are
25 supposed to be used to finance services within the district that is paying the taxes. This is
26 not the case here and senior citizens, such as myself, will not be able to afford those
27 condominiums at $1.5 or $2 million dollars. It is not a fair or ethical decision for the future
28
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I Pacific City residents to be charged a tax per Mello Roos to pay for park improvements, e.g.
2 the senior center, which is over 4 miles away.
3
4 Also, adequate studies have not been done on the destruction of the environmentally
5 sensitive habitat in that area for the raptors, which have the California Department of Fish
6 and Games designation of"birds of special concern". These include the burrowing owl,
7 which seems to be ignored as declining numbers have been thoroughly documented by the
8 Audubon Society. These birds return to their birth homes each year to nest and raise their
9 babies, and forage in the area, which is now designated to be bulldozed for the proposed
10 senior center. You do not merely put up a sign for these birds to point to their new,
1 I acceptable living quarters, because the birds don't read. Remember, the vote in 2006 was
12 only an advisory vote and was based on inadequate voter information. In summary, I
13 implore you Councilmembers to reject the EIR and CUP because the officials of the city
14 need to set an example for the citizens of the community.
15
16 You need to tighten the budget and not spend this excessive $23 million dollars plus on a
17 building that is not urgently needed. There are other alternative sites to choose from.
18 Among them is the rebuilding of the senior center as it exists now at Rodgers, or the
19 purchase or lease of the Kettler School or other school sites. Kettler is now appraised at$8
20 million dollars, and they just put in $3 million dollars worth of improvements. It is quite a
21 bargain, and it is 35,000 plus square feet on level ground, butting up to Edison Park. These
22 are all pluses. We have walked the area where the Senior Center is proposed, try to walk up
23 that grade, it is very difficult and I don't believe that most of the seniors will make it up there
24 to Goldenwest. Thank you.
25
26 John McGregor
27 Good evening Mayor Cook and City Council members. My name is John McGregor and I
28 have lived here for 39 years. Just to give you some background, I go to Rodgers Senior
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I Center Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday for exercise. On Thursday, I go to
2 Midway City, I go to Westminster Senior Center, and I go to Garden Grove Senior Center,
3 so I know what I am talking about when I say how comfortable it is at Rodgers Senior
4 Center. But when I think of taking part of the field away to put a structure on it is terrible.
5 And it is even worse because a few years ago, my granddaughter was in Kettler School and a
6 teacher asked if I would come and teach them, which I did do for a semester. And what
7 amazed me was Kettler School would be absolutely prefect. When I went there, the
8 partitions were such that you could have a big room and a small room. I also noticed that
9 there is an incredible parking area that is used right now as a running area. They closed
10 down in 2005 and they spent $3 million dollars during that period and it hasn't been used
I I since then. And though it would be better if they could lease it to the city for seniors, it
12 would be an ideal set-up and an ideal location and it is not too far from where I live. Plus the
13 fact that it would be so much better, superior, to going up to Central Park. And they're
14 talking about $23 million dollars, but that's only for the down payment, because it could be
15 like the place across the street, the sports center, that we had the disaster with and that could
16 be something very similar. Thank you very much for listening to me.
17
18 Norma Gibbs
19 Good evening City Council, my name is Norma Brandel Gibbs, and before I begin I have to
20 laugh at what you were going thru earlier. 30 years ago we tried to put in a cat leashing
21 ordinance. We were all hung, absolutely hung. In fact, it was so bad that it lasted two
22 months, and that was it. Good luck on handling the animals. Thirty-three years ago, I was
23 on the City Council, and we dedicated Central Park. Forty-two years ago, I was on the Rec
24 and Parks Commission, when we dreamed of Central Park. Thirty-eight years ago, I was
25 elected to the City Council to help put that dream into reality. The park is my baby. We
26 tried very hard to please everybody. The horse lovers, they got 25 acres. The Frisbee
27 players, they got something like 12. Shipley Center, they got 18 acres. Senior Center, at this
28 stage, we would like to have 5. This is out of some 356 acres. Through the years, many
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I people have asked me what was going to happen to that eyesore of dirt on Goldenwest?
2 Well, that is where the Council On Aging, recognizing a need for a new senior center,
3 thought that this would be a logical place. And this was confinned by the group we had
4 consulting. Apparently, we didn't do a very good job in selling it because we ran into a buzz
5 saw that still exists. However, the election was held. Kettler we had tried for was not a
6 possibility. The school district turned us down. Everybody brings up Kettler. We tried for
7 it. The stage we are at this point, as I understand it, is simply the EIR stage. You know
8 what; I am all for making it green. A building that would be as green as economically
9 possible I think would be great. But we have to remember that the proposed budget that we
10 submitted and argued for was before there was talk of making it green or the LEED
I 1 approval. So, I am completely in favor of making a green building, as long as the City
12 Council funds the difference between what we assumed it would cost and whatever the
13 LEED certification would make it. I do hope that over the next 30 years each of you will be
14 able to take advantage of a modernized senior center as I have been able to take advantage of
15 living in this city for that long. You'll be able to see it, and I hope I'll be able to live long
16 enough to see it also. Thank you very much.
17
18 Don MacAllister
19 Good evening Mayor Cook and City Council, I am Don MacAllister, a 40-year plus resident,
20 also a past mayor, and currently on the Council On Aging as its vice president. I also serve
21 on two other levels of government on senior matters. One is SCAC, which is the senior
22 advisory council and committee to the Orange County Board of Supervisors and as your
23 representative as a senior state representative to the JRC, which are people out of Orange
24 County who go up there to look at matters and bills that we try to carry thru to become real
25 law that affect seniors. Over the several years that I have been on the SCAC board, I have
26 had the chance to be at most of the senior centers within the county. Very seriously, out of
27 30 different cities, we have the oldest, most dilapidated, outmoded facility around. But I
28 have to say that we have the best plan on day to day operations thanks to the dedicated
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I vocational staff that is here and the thousands of volunteer hours that you just heard. The
2 transportation system is outstanding. But we need to catch up. We're out of space now.
3 We've been adequated for years. And as was mentioned earlier, in the next 15 years, our
4 senior population will grow by over 65% which will make us more inadequate if we stay
5 where we're at. When we're complete, we'll be one of the most modern facilities around,
6 but we'll still be behind some of the fantastic centers that have been built elsewhere in the
7 county.
8
9 The people have voted and approved the project in its location. You've basically approved
10 it. The Planning Commission has approved it. The staff approves it. So now tonight, let's
11 get on with it, and you approve the EIR with it, and again, as far as the LEED restriction, I
12 think we all want a green building and build it to the best green that can be had in meeting
13 the standards. But let's stay away from the word certification. Cause that is something that
14 can come back and bite you to death. As Norma said, if you want certification so bad, then
15 you take it out of your money and not out of the money earmarked to build the center.
16 Thank you very much.
17
18 Eileen Murphy
19 Good evening Mayor Cook and City Council. I am speaking to you tonight to urge you to
20 deny the approval of the EIR for the Senior Center. My reason is that parks are promised to
21 the people, to keep them as open space for generations to come. This EIR, if approved,
22 allows Central Park to be built on despite the fact that it is park. The developer of Pacific
23 City did not want to waste space in his development for a park. So he gave the city $22
24 million dollars to improve our existing parks, which for the most part, could use the money.
25 They are pretty dilapidated. The majority of the City Council, Green, Bohr, Hansen and
26 Coerper, voted to give the same developer $22 million to build a senior center in one of our
27 parks. My question is, how is building a building in our park improving our existing parks?
28
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I It beats me. Thank you for allowing me to speak, and please vote no on this item D 1. Thank
2 you.
3
4 Pat Goodman
5 Good evening Mayor Cook and City Council members, I'm Pat Goodman and I am a 30 year
6 resident of HB and I came here tonight to ask you to deny the CUP and the EIR for the
7 construction of the senior center, item D1. I don't think that anyone denies the need for a
8 new senior community center. The opposition comes from the proposed location. It seems
9 to me that there are several reasons to oppose this project. It doesn't make sense to build on
10 the proposed site as the city becomes more densely populated and open space is more in
I 1 demand. I think, too, the possible litigation around the Mella-Roos fees is a red light and
12 should be a warning to the City Council to not proceed with this. There are also safety,
13 traffic and aesthetic concerns with this proposed site. I think it may be legal to build on this
14 site, but I ask the City Council to think about what is best for the entire city and for the
15 future of the city and to ask you to please deny the permit and the EIR. Thank you.
16
17 Steve Stafford
18 Mayor Cook, City Council members, city staff, my name is Steve Stafford. I have watched
19 this issue from the inception and one of the biggest problems is the funding. It seems
20 nobody really knows where the funding is coming from. To me, using the Mella-Roos funds
21 doesn't seem like a legal use of the funds. Secondly, Makar seems like they're pulling out of
22 the deal. So my question to you is, where is the money coming from for this? This seems to
23 be another sports complex where the money isn't there and you're going to hope that the
24 money comes from some where. But you can't do it that way. Nobody seems to have that
25 answer about where the money is coming from. You want to certify this, and you want to do
26 this and that—but, again, where's the money coming from? I see a real problem here with
27 funding and with this whole project. My second problem is, that area where you're building
28 the senior center floods when it rains. How are you going to keep the water out of that
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I Senior Center when it rains? It's in an area like a little valley, water is going to come down
2 in there and flood. I haven't seen that addressed in the EIR, where that water is going to go
3 to. You have problems there with the soil — it's called a perched water system, where the
4 water can just perch thru the soil. How is that going to be avoided? I don't think this is the
5 best location, I think there are funding problems and I just don't see it working. I didn't
6 mention this on the skate park, but you're only getting half the money back from the school
7 district on the funding, so again, you have these funding problems and it is not being
8 addressed. Thank you.
9
10 Judy Ann Morris
11 Good evening Mayor and Council Members, my name is Judy Ann Morris, and I am a 34
12 year resident of HB and I have volunteered almost all those years. There is an urgency to
13 building the new senior center. And the growth of the senior population is not going to slow
14 down and wait for us. So I beg you not to make it impossible to build our center. At this
15 point, we are behind the curve when it comes to designated square footage available for
16 senior services. Cities around HB have already recognized the need to enlarge their centers.
17 Consultant LPA identified the amount of senior center square footage available for every
18 5,000 seniors in other cities. And HB is sorely lacking. To give you an example, Cerritos
19 designated 16, 499 square feet per 5,000 seniors. Irvine, 9,108 sq. ft. Fountain Valley
20 7,489 Sq. Ft. Costa Mesa, 6, 932 sq. ft. Westminster 5,979 Sq. Ft. HB at this time has
21 2,200. Even after our new center is built, we will only move up the list to pass
22 Westminster. With our new center, we will have 6,892 Sq Ft per 5,000 seniors. That seems
23 reasonable. As people have said, in the next 15 years there will be an increase in our senior
24 population by 64%. There is a saying "Build it and they will come.". Please build our
25 center now because the senior tsunami is on its way.
26
27 Mindy White
28
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I My name is Mindy White and an a resident of HB and I live within 1,000 feet of the
2 proposed project. I want to note that one of the comments that went up on the PowerPoint
3 earlier that no project or continuation of uses is actually seen as the environmentally superior
4 plan as listed in the EIR. I would also like to make a comment regarding the LEED
5 certification. Paying for the LEED certification ensures accountability. So, I think that is a
6 big issue. So , if we are discussing that we do not have the funds to certify the building as a
7 LEEDs building, I really question where the funds are coming from for this building. If we
8 can spend $24 million dollars for what's going into the building, shouldn't we be able to put
9 in a small percentage of that to make sure that the premier building in the park will be a
10 green building. I am here tonight to start where I started in the beginning—with open space.
11 And in the EIR that is addressed by the aesthetics. That is seen as a significant cumulative
12 impact on the park which can't be mitigated away with just a statement of overriding
13 consideration. That loss of space is something that has been discussed from the very
14 beginning.
15
16 What's more interesting to me in the EIR is that it notes that that most important cumulative
17 impact to the park in the EIR that you all have to address is noted to be a subjective
18 determination. There is no quantitative data in there to describe how that view and the
19 impact to the visual corridor we're going to see from Central Park will be addressed. In
20 other words, the folks that wrote the report wrote it the way they wanted to see it.
21
22 The other issue is the geology of the soils and I just want to touch on that briefly. We're not
23 talking about what the unknown soils or the fill soils are noted in the EIR. That got you into
24 trouble with the sports complex. We don't know what is just across the street at the same
25 site. What is under that soil, and we won't know until we begin to dig.
26
27 I'd also like to stress that in all the meetings I've attended, the Council On Aging, or the
28 study sessions with the Planning Commission —they have already outlined areas for further
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I expansion. So, this isn't going to stop with this project. They've already outlined another
2 area for additional parking. So we know that this project will grow from what's already
3 been proposed. The city is reduced by 48 acres of required open space parkland and that is
4 identified in the Pacific City EIR. I am bringing up the Pacific city EIR because that
5 municipal code states, and that was quoted earlier tonight, and that quote is "The amount and
6 location of land dedicated or the fees to be paid or both will be used for acquiring or
7 developing new or rehabilitating existing community and neighborhood parks or other types
8 of recreational activities. These facilities will be provided in locations that bear a reasonable
9 relationship to the use of the park and the recreational facilities to be used by the future
10 inhabitants of the subdivision."
11
12 I know you have heard this over and over again, but you are going to take away parkland in
13 Central Park and build a senior center 4 miles away and say that it benefits the residents of
14 Pacific City. We know that is not going to be the case. And then you are going to add
15 Mella-Roos to that in terms of the funding. The only word I can use to describe the funding
16 is "scheme". It just doesn't seem that the money will be there. And, again, you're arguing
17 about LEED certification when you have all these funds available. What is the reasonable
18 relationship? How can that be justified in terms of building the center in that sense? ,Fiscal
19 responsibility. We seem to be heading for a recession with the downtrend in the real estate
20 market. How are we going to be able to support and pay for operating expenses of this
21 building? Measure C, last and least, this was supposed to be the final approval after the EIR
22 and all the studies were done. Where is the next vote? Would people have voted if they had
23 known all about the finances and all the other uses for the center. Thank you very much.
24
25 Shirley Dettloff
26 Good evening Mayor Cook and members of the City Council. I am Shirley Dettloff, foriner
27 Mayor and 45-year resident of the city of HB. Bob would have been here tonight to express
28 his feelings on the senior center, which are very positive, but he is setting up one of the
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I polling places for tomorrow's election. Since I have moved to HB, I have seen enormous
2 changes taking place. When I moved here, I could drive from Edinger and Goldenwest and
3 see almost no development on my way to city hall. Homes have replaced our open space,
4 and had it not been for a formidable group of citizens we would not have saved over 350
5 acres we call Central Park. Ralph and Charlene Bauer and Norma Gibbs were from that
6 group who saved Central Park for us all. These same people also support the senior center-
7 Many of those who oppose the senior center location moved into these new homes and no
8 voices were raised in preventing them making their homes in HB and raising their families.
9 They were welcomed.
10
11 I'm no stranger to the question of open space. I have supported open space my entire life
12 and spent the past 30 years fighting to save the Bolsa Chica Wetlands, which provide over
13 2,000 acres of open space. The opposition to the senior center being built on only 5 acres of
14 this park feel that important habitat is being destroyed. I think anyone who has spent time
15 walking the proposed site of the senior center does not have the scientific evidence to prove
16 that significant wildlife will be harmed. If there are minimal disruptions, the EIR required
17 mitigation measures to be taken. The birds who fly over this area usually nest in Central
18 Park or Shipley Nature Center because of trees. Rabbits, mice and other small creatures
19 abound in the park and surrounding areas providing food. And then the Bolsa Chica with
20 over 2,000 acres provides not only food, but for certain species, habitat. We also have
21 adjacent to Central Park, 104 acres of linear park which will remain an open space. The EIR
22 also calls for mitigation measures. Is it too much to ask for 5 acres for our senior population
23 who helped to make this town the great city it is today? Our opposition always says, and
24 their lawyer supported that this evening, that people did not know what they were voting for
25 when they voted for measure T. Voters were given information about both the pro and
26 opposing views. There was a public forum which was televised. Numerous newspaper
27 articles appeared in our local press. Letters to the editor were published on an almost weekly
28 basis. We on the pro side sent out mailers and walked neighborhoods to ensure that the voter
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I had information available as did the opposition. So I believe the voters were well informed
2 and were able to make an informed decision. Thank you.
3
4 Larry Geisse
5 1 am Larry Geisse. Mayor Cook and City Council: I know it is late but I do appreciate the
6 opportunity to talk tonight. I wanted to congratulate Mayor Cook, first of all, on choosing to
7 run for the US Congress in this district, which I read in the paper today. Mayor Cook, if I
8 can suggest, if you're looking for some campaign workers, I think the volunteers that
9 worked the HB races this weekend in that cold wind and rain for hours and hours. Those
14 were dedicated, tough people— I certainly would get in touch with them. I know or have
11 met most of you and I know that you are all honest and good people. I know .you wart to do
12 what is in the best interest of HB. We need a new senior center and I will grant you that. I
13 have spent a considerable amount of time on this new senior center, and I do believe it is a
14 project that has many problems and flaws that cannot be mitigated — especially legally,
15 financially and environmentally, and I believe it unwise for us to proceed.
16
17 This project passed the Community Services Commission and the Planning Commission
18 without any real effort on their part to understand the consequences of going forward with
19 this project. Your staff and your City Attorney are bending to your desires, giving you the
20 opinions you want to hear without inputting the facts or even discussing the controversies
21 involved. For example, I see a slide tonight that says "Gee the senior center is consistent
22 with Measure C and Measure T.- That to me shows a complete lack of understanding of
23 what Measure C and Measure T are about. There is no consistency with the senior center, it
24 is about the public voting for the senior center. I see a building that somebody says to me is
25 aesthetically pleasing. No building in the park is going to be aesthetically pleasing. The
26 library is a nice building, but when you look at the library, you're not thinking it is in a park,
27 you're just thinking—that's the library. I hope you will take the time now to really look at
28 the true facts before proceeding. I would ask you to look honestly into the financials for the
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I library, the sports complex and the existing senior center, all of which require monies from
2 the general fund each year to continue their operations.
3
4 1 would ask you to really put together financials for this project so that we can see what it
5 will cost us. Taking business from library meeting rooms would not count. I would ask you
6 to look at the referendum vote you took. Despite every attempt to minimize the language and
7 information to the public, and despite the creative attempt to make it a senior citizen issue,
8 the referendum barely gained 50% of those who voted. Numerous previous surveys, as
9 pointed out here, have shown that such buildings in the park rate very low on what our
10 citizens really want in the park. Had this referendum included any other option, or if the
11 voters had been given the information known at the time about potential costs and funding, 1
12 do not believe it would have received many votes. I can only imagine how difficult it is ...
13 Thank you.
14
15 Penelope Duran
16 My name is Penelope Duran. I don't have very much information like everyone else. I just
17 learned about this tonight in class and I do have to say that I wasn't very happy when I found
18 out. I do go to the park a lot on lunch time and stuff like that. I don't live in HB but I do
19 spend most of my time here because I do work here and I go to the park and I do hang out
20 there before school while doing my homework and stuff and it is a good place. I do.agree
21 that the seniors need a nice place to go, but so do the kids that need to play and I think it
22 might be a good idea to find somewhere else to put the senior center. Thank you.
23
24 Henry Nguyen
25 Hi my name is Henry Nguyen and I am a student of Goldenwest College. I have recently
26 been informed about the senior center. In the previous years I have taken courses in physical
27 science, environmental science, AP, so I am aware of the situation that this may cause. I am
28 opposed to the construction of the senior center at the HB Central Park because it is not
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I really beneficial to all groups and ages. This is only for one specific group. I think that we
2 should consider an idea where everyone would be benefited. The city must analyze all the
3 aspects relating to this because every action has its consequences. How do we know that this
4 project may be financially stable in the future and that all the aesthetic value that the park
5 has now will not be taken away? As I heard before tonight, I know that there are alternatives
6 that we can have, there are different sites that we can look at. And having this construction,
7 even though it is only 5 acres, is there a possibility of downsizing this space that is being
8 used for the senior citizens, because the more space that you take away, the more CO2 is
9 taken away, the more greenhouse gasses you get, the more global warming, etc. So we
10 should find a solution that will be environmentally stable for the future because whatever
11 decision we make now will from now on affect the future. Thank you.
12
13 Shauna Searles
14 Good evening, my name is Shauna Searles and I am also a student at Goldenwest College. 1
15 am a child of two senior citizens and I can pretty much guarantee you that if they were given
16 a choice between having a new senior center built or more money put into their social
17 security check, they're going to go with the latter. Pardon me if that seems naive, but I can
18 only tell you from my own personal experience— and I didn't mock when you were up here
19 speaking. I personally won't even have social security by the time I am old enough to obtain
20 it. I do believe that the senior center is a good idea— I don't have an issue with that— it is
21 the location I have an issue with. And I feel that constantly, if you give an inch,,people
22 want a mile. If you give them a mile, they want 10 miles. If you give them 10 miles, they
23 want 30. There's just never enough. There's never a boundary and there's never a
24 limitation. So it would be nice to see if you could come up with alternate sites. And my other
25 concern is that I really didn't hear a lot of talk about it going green. If you are going to put
26 $22 million dollars into a building, shouldn't it be environmentally conscience? That to me
27 doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially when you have a senior center there that you could
28 possibly remodel. Thank you.
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I
2 Chris Johnston
3 Hi, my name is Christopher Johnston. I have to say that I don't think we should be putting
4 the senior center in Central Park on 5 acres. If you use that now, where does it stop. If you
5 are willing to give away 5 acres now, sooner or later you are going to want more and build
6 more and I like Central Park. The wildlife there. I believe that we should renovate the old
7 senior center. Thank you. Oh, can I add one more think about the parking lot? The 2 acres
8 for the parking lot? Why can't we just put a parking garage maybe with an elevator so you
9 don't have to walk so far from wherever, from the furthest point — why not just put a parking
10 garage? OK, thank you.
11
12 Victor Cohn
13 Good evening ladies and gentlemen, Mayor and City Council members, my name is Victor
14 Cohn. I am a new member to your community, I have only been here for 4 years, my claim
15 to fame is that I asked the Council On Aging if I could bring a computer program to the
16 senior center. They gave me the money and we've had a very successful program there. 1
17 kind of have a reputation there for teaching very difficult things in a very short time. What I
18 decided to do tonight was to find out what on earth is LEED certification. So I did the
19 natural thing, I Googled it. And it didn't take very long to come up with the slide that you
20 see here. LEED certification and US Green Building Council - what I have for you is the
21 latest version of their documents dated October, 2005. If you are so inclined to print out the
22 78 page document you can get it at USGBC.ORG — 78 pages long. So what is this
23 document? Introduction. LEED first of all stands for Leadership in Energy and
24 Environmental Design. It's an acronym, LEED. I'll try to read for you what I can. In the
25 United States, buildings use one-third of our total energy, two-thirds of our electricity, and
26 one-eighth of our water and transforms land that provides valuable ecologic resources.
27 These buildings transform the land. This was published in 1999, providing rating systems
28 that are voluntary— did you notice that I put the word voluntary very large there, and I'm
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I reading right from the document— based upon accepted energy and environmental
2 principals, they strike a balance between established practice and emerging concepts.
3
4 So, in a nutshell, what does that mean? A group of people got together and said that if
5 somebody wants to build a green building, what guidelines could they go by. They came up
6 with a project list. Sustainable sites —there are 14 possible points. Water Efficiency-
7 Energy and Atmosphere. Materials and Resources. Indoor environmental quality.
8 Innovation and Design Process. A total of 69 possible points. It was mentioned earlier that
9 we ought to strive for the silver or gold certification. Well,just to let you know, to get
10 certified you only need 26 points out of the possible 69. I don't know why we don't try for
11 platinum, try to get all 69 of them and spend the money as ridiculously as some people are
12 suggesting here. Final slide: I feel certain that everyone connected with the building of the
13 new senior center will favor using the Voluntary guidelines, as listed in the LEER
14 certification program, to make our new building as Green as is financially feasible. And I
15 will end with the following: I would like to invite not only all of the men but all of the
16 women in this building to go see the urinals in the men's bathroom that are about as
17 ecologically friendly as anything I have even seen. No plumbing, no water, and this is a city
18 who is going to build something that isn't green? I don't think so. Thank you.
19
20 Candace Bartsch
21 Good evening, my name is Candace Bartsch and I am a resident of HB. We all know how
22 important a senior center is to the citizens of HB. As was reported, in the maturing of
23 America, getting communities on track for an aging population, a report lead by the National
24 Association of Area Engineers on Aging in September 2006. The number of persons over the
25 age of 65 will soar to 71.5 million which is I in every 5 Americans. Persons are living into
26 their 90s in record numbers. The report goes on to say that this report encourages
27 community leaders to take proactive measures to make life better for older adults and by
28 doing so, strengthening the entire community process. I have had the good fortune to work
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I with the senior population here in HB since 1985. It was long before my hair turned grey,
2 long before I could join AARP, and so long ago my sons were attending HB schools and are
3 now in college. But during all those years, whether-I was working with seniors in retirement
4 community, or elderly seniors in nursing homes facing their last days, or with active seniors
5 as I do now, the one thing I know is that the quality of life is very important. Getting
6 outdoors to enjoy the sunshine, fresh air, singing birds, the rustle of the trees, are always on
7 the top of anyone's list.
8
9 Quality of life can mean different things to different people depending on their stage of life
10 and depending on their age. When I was young, quality of life was going to the beach after
11 school with friends. When I was in college, quality of life was going to the river to waterski
12 on weekends with friends. When I was first married 30 years ago, quality of life was being
13 with friends, barbecues, camping and enjoying time off from work. When our sons arrived,
14 quality of life revolved around them. The beach, the park, youth sports, the family
15 gatherings, and, yes, skateboarding. As we age, so do our needs, our lifestyles, our
16 independence. If you have a family, they are your focus, and, hopefully, as you age, you are
17 the focus of their lives. It doesn't always work that way. Many seniors have no family, their
IS families may have moved out of state or they may have outlived them. These are the seniors
19 who day in and day out attend senior centers. This is where they come to look for
20 companionship, friendships and activities. The current age of participants is 72 years of age.
21 They come for classes, meals, dances, computer classes, exercises and the list goes on.
22 Many of them lived on fixed income and are unable to afford senior luxury housing that
23 comes complete with recreational centers and planned activities. For many seniors, going to
24 the center is the only place they visit. They know they are safe with their peers, dependable
25 staff, and instructors, have a great lunch, and have transportation they can afford and can
26 depend on that takes them door to door. They know they will be well taken care of. How
27 wonderful will it be for them to now visit a beautiful new center, much better than the 1940s,
28 building with so little character, located next to our fabulous park filled with trees, wildlife
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I walking past this, and persons of all ages. They may have visited when they were younger,
2 took their kids there, had a picnic, rode a bike, but as they aged, the opportunities got less
3 and less until they stopped going. Now they will once again have a chance to experience
4 what every other resident of HB can choose to do and enjoy Huntington Central Park. I look
5 forward to the day when the morning Rodger's Tai Chi class is held outdoors among the
6 trees, and not where it is currently held. Thank you.
7
8 Adria Thotnke
9 Good evening honorable Mayor and City Council members, my name is Adria Thomke, and
10 I have been a citizen of HB since 1979, and I am also a member of the Council On Aging
11 which comprised the Council On Aging Design Criteria Committee that supports taking 5
12 acres of the 356 acres of Huntington Central Park to build our new senior center. The new
13 proposed senior center is a warm, inviting building, which includes as you heard earlier,
14 timber, glass and stone. This design fits beautifully into the park setting. The friends of
15 Shipley Center were consulted on the landscaping which includes, again, as you heard
16 earlier, native and non-native drought tolerant vegetation. Recently, I've seen a movie in
17 which the characters listed the items they wanted to accomplish before they kicked the
18 bucket. Although I'm a young baby boomer, I would like to cross the new senior center off
19 my list before I kick the bucket. So, I recommend to the City Council to certify the EIR.
20 Thank you.
21
22 Dave Sullivan
23 My name is Dave Sullivan. Staff identified funds for frugal an adequate and fugal senior
24 center, nothing fancy. Although people favored an environmentally sensitive building, there
25 was no specific discussion of LEED certification prior to the election. A LEED certified
26 building would be quite costly and items essential to an adequate senior center would have to
27 be deleted under the identified funding. Therefore, it is our request that if the council
28 decides to have a LEED certified building, the LEED costs be taken separately from the
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I council's secondary reserves. Also, the original CUP contained the words, "the city will
2 strive to achieve LEED certification". The planning commission took out the words "strive
3 to" thus mandating LEED certification. We suggest that you reinsert the words "strive to" to
4 give yourselves some flexibility. Usually educated officials have to make educated guesses
5 on what the public wants. In this case you know. In the purest form of democracy, the
6 voters approved a senior center at this site in Central Park. Central is a key word. As people
7 get into their 70s and 80s they want to drive less and some take public transportation. It is
8 both logical and fair that a new senior center be placed in the center of a city. In the 1970s
9 people voted to tax themselves to purchase land for Central Park. Without that vote,.there
10 would be no Central Park. Most of those voters are now Senior Citizens. I find it sadly
I 1 ironic and frankly disgusting there are those who would now deny those unselfish seniors a
12 small part in our central park. Finally, everyone knows that people become more vulnerable
13 as they reach their 70s and their 80s. Many wise people have pondered how a society will be
14 judged. All of them agree that one criterion will be how do we treat the most vulnerable
15 among us. I have confidence that you will do the right thing. Thank you.
16
17 Mayor Cook
18 I have a question since you brought up the frugal nature of the senior center. I am curious
19 about how it was determined that the senior center would cost, was it $22 million? Is that
20 the number that was finally ... 19?, 20? When you do the math on the 45,000 square foot at
21 $22 million, you come up with $488 per square foot. I'm wondering why we couldn't do the
22 LEED certified building within that$488 per square foot cost?
23
24 Dave Sullivan
25 Staff would be the one to answer that question and they considered what the construction
26 costs are, etc. If you can find out a way to do it cheaper and can justify it, good luck.
27
28 Mayor Cook
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I I just don't know any buildings that cost that much per square foot. That is why I am curious
2 what else is included in that, and I guess we will find out when public comments are over.
3 Thank you.
4
5 Kathryn Lui
6 Kathryn Lui. And actually that question makes me, gives me some concern about why I am
7 up here. I have been listening to things, and because it is a public hearing, there are some
8 questions about this project and I am hoping the City Council could, and/or their panel can
9 give me some answers. First, I'll rattle them off, and if you don't answer them then it will
10 be a real short 3 minutes for me. First, I can't get into Landmark, or any other senior
I 1 home/park/development unless I am a certain age. I presume it is the same with the current
12 proposed senior center? Number two: I presume that the EIR studies for public use were
13 done projecting the current senior population and the projected senior population in HB
14 based on if they would be largely, if not entirely, the people who would be using the center?
15 My third question is: How is it that public land is being earmarked solely for a specific
16 group of people. I doubt we will ever live to see the day when either Gil Coerper or I will
17 ever be in a skate park, nevertheless, they are certainly open to anybody who wants to risk
18 breaking their neck. So, I am wondering if that is the case. And then my fourth question is,
19 if that is not the case, and it is open for the general public to use, intentionally were EIR
20 public use studies done when you have grown from the 50,000 you think are going to use it
21 all the time to the 250,000 people who could use it at any one point in time?
22
23 Carrie Thomas
24 Good evening Council, my name is Carrie Thomas and I live here in HB and I have been a
25 resident for 32 years. I too have seen a lot of things in this city come and go and come back
26 again. I actually am excited about having a brand new senior center, and if it is in Central
27 Park, then I can jog on over and use the gym and stay for a cheap lunch, an expensive lunch
28 or a free lunch, I don't know, but I'm excited about that. I'm just concerned, number one, I
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I know a lot of people who want a senior center, I want a senior center, and I want to take
2 advantage of a senior center, but not at the expense of the park lands. And I know a lot of
3 people who voted for the senior center because they didn't know how much it was going to
4 cost—all of the details were not included in the vote and I will bet you anything that if you
5 put that vote out and you told the people all the details, they would not vote for a senior
6 center in Central Park. There are so many issues. But I want to talk to you tonight about
7 LEED certification. LEED is a comprehensive plan, you don't have to have the most
8 expensive windows, air conditioning, you don't have to have certain particular things, it is a
9 huge, huge palette that you can incorporate into the building. All of the new schools are
10 meeting LEED requirements, a lot of them gold, some of them platinum. All of the new
I buildings being built all over the country, many of them are striving to be LEED certified.
12 That is what we should be doing here. I heard a comment that this senior center is going to
13 be the premier development project of the city. We should make that the premier
14 development project by incorporating these LEED standards. We should also expect other
15 developers to incorporate these LEED standards. This is not something that we should put
16 our thumb down at, this is important, this decides which way the city goes. Right now we
17 build to the worse possible title 24 standards. That's the worse possible standard for
18 efficiency that you can build to and the state of California allows this to happen. It is so bad
19 that. And that is why the utility companies are offering energy efficiency rebates or
20 incentives, to overcome, at least go 10% , 15%, 20% better than Title 24 and I doubt very
21 much that this building as it is now going to do that.
22
23 I urge you to incorporate LEED certification in this building. This is where we need to be
24 and we're talking about such things as high efficiency lighting , indoor lighting , outdoor
25 lighting, day lighting, energy star appliances, low flush toilets, these are not hard things to
26 accomplish. You don't have to put glazing, you don't have to put sky lighting— we should
27 incorporate all these things into this building. I think we have a long way to go before we
28 approve this tonight. So, I urge you to please put this in there, it is really important, and it is
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I a standard that HB would be proud of and we expect people to do this, we expect developers
2 to do this and we darn well should be doing this.. Thank you.
3
4 City Clerk
5 That concludes public comments.
6
7 Mayor Cook
8 OK, thank you.
9
10 Mayor Debbie Cook
11 Does anybody have any questions, comments? Councilman Hansen
12
13 Councilman Hansen
14 1 want to dig into the question about the Mella Roos discussion and get our side of the story
15 in regards to our legal council's opinion on the validity of using the funds for Mella Roos
16 funding to fund a senior center. If we have counter points to what Mr. Allen presented
17 tonight then a lot of which is just legal conjecture on his part given that really hasn't been
18 flushed out that what our side of the story may be.
19
20 City Attorney Jennifer McGrath
21 Specifically I believe Mayor Cook asked a question of Mr. Allen which I don't think he
22 actually answered directly. There's a question of Mella Roos and there is also a question of
23 special taxes which under our charter we can do. But neither of those issues is before you
24 tonight it will be a later situation. I believe Mr. Emery can give you some more details
25 relative to the CFD. But you will have to make the findings under Mella Roos or under
26 alternative opportunity.
27
28 Councilman Hansen
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I Do we get latitude as a charter city to make those determinations?
2
3 City Attorney Jennifer McGrath
4 Specifically state law permits that.
5
6 Councilman Hansen
7 Ok, thank you.
8
9 Mayor Cook
10 Councilman Coerper
11
12 Councilman Coerper
13 I had a question on the LEEDs program again, I'm sorry I heard somebody say that we strive
14 to have a LEED certification. Is that "strive" would the Planning Commission take that out? 1
15 thought Mr. Livengood was here, but I would ask the staff.
16
17 Paul Emery
18 Yeah, and I'll ask Scott Hess to confirm that, it is my understanding that the original action
19 was "strive' and the Planning Commission removed that and had "shall".
20
21 Council Member Coerper
22 The word "shall" is in there now. Is anybody from the Planning Commission here now?
23 Tom Livengood?
24
25 Councilmember Green
26 Devin is here.
27
28 Council Member Coerper
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I Joe would you mind coming back in here? My question is what the reasoning for that was.
2 Does strive, shall mandated. Can you give me a heads up on that? I'm just looking for
3 direction because yes I agree with what you said. At first I thought that maybe the Planning
4 Commission kind of overstepped their bounds and now I'm listening to something just a
5 little bit different so I would like to hear it from you.
6
7 Joe Shaw
8 Well certainly former Mayor Coerper, the Planning Commission is not overstepping their
9 bounds. They're allowed to put conditions on projects. They do it all the time. The
14 condition we wanted to put on this project was that it be LEED certified.
11
12 Council Member Coerper
13 So you really support it. Is that what you are saying?
14
15 Joe Shaw
16 Yes, and all the Planning Commissioners although they all didn't vote for it, they all support
17 it. They all indicated their support if you go back and see the tape you'll see that. They all
18 supported that but they didn't vote for it.
19
20 Council Member Coerper
21 Ok.
22
23 Joe Shaw
24 But four people did.
25
26 Council Member Coerper
27 Thank you very much, Joe.
28
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I Mayor Cook
2 Joe did you want to have Devon come up, Devon did you want to make a comment on that?
3
4 Devin Dwyer
5 Thank you Councilmember's, I can only speak for myself, and I was probably considered the
6 swing vote on it. The reason I voted for LEED certification is, as you can hear from the
7 public, this is a very divisive issue and I think you are helping the side that actually lost. 51%
8 voted yes to put it in the park and I go with that 5 1% I'm all for it. I think it should go in the
9 park. I think you are helping out those voters that lost by LEED certifying this program. The
10 other thing is your Mayor has a new direction, her direction for the city is efficiency and
11 energy and I think this also works in the direction she wants to take her Council. Some other
12 things that weren't talked about were of those 26 points you may be going for, you could
13 pick out the different issues that actually pay back quicker. As you look at each individual:
14 the.photovoltaic they typically pay back in ten years. The star efficiency dishwashers, things
15 of that sort, those pay back a lot quicker, within a couple of years you save on your energy
16 bill. Did I answer the question?
17
18 Council Member Coerper
19 Yes, I think it gave me a better understanding. I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to
20 totally support the LEEDs program but after listening to the citizens, yourself and the others
21 now I think it should be put in the recommended action that it is a LEEDs program. I look at
22 it - if we're going to set an example we got to work with the builders and the only way were
23 going to set an example is by making it happen and making it a LEEDs program.
24
25 Devin Dwyer
26 They talk about that its lead by example that's something you hear about quite a bit.
27
28 Council Member Coerper
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I That's the reason I said that. So thank you very much.
2
3 Mayor Cook
4 I do want to mention as far as PV is concerned you can do it at no charge if you use a third
5 party purchase agreement. Councilmember Hardy
6
7 Councilmember Hardy
8 1 had a few more questions of staff, first off I wanted to answer one of the questions from the
9 public comments, and it was the last one actually about the Senior Center. It will be
10 available, the current one is available to all residents and the new one would be available to
I 1 all residents. The services are targeted towards seniors and their interests but they are
12 available, for example some of the exercise classes I have been interested in the past were
13 held at Rodgers Senior Center. I ended up not taking them but I heard that I was welcome to
14 sign up. I didn't take them because of laziness not because I was intimidated by the setting.
15 I've also, as a teacher, taken students to Rodgers Senior Center to do a school project with
16 the help of the seniors. It was a convenient place for two different age groups to meet so
17 there wouldn't be anything about the new center that isn't currently available at the old one
18 as far as multigenerational and also renting the facilities. Currently you can rent Rodgers
19 Senior Center no matter what your age for an event. Like any city facility, it may have its
20 restrictions on what goes on but nothing that is regarding age. So I wanted to answer that
21 question but I had some questions for staff. One of them was the cost per square foot was
22 brought up and it does seem very high and I was wondering the $23 million dollar figure that
23 originally came out as I understood it was kind of a generic figure once we decided on a site.
24 Is that still the price tag, the cost per square foot - is there a reason why it seems so high?
25
26 Paul Emery
27 I will ask Jim Engle to specifically address that, but let me tell you the cost is more than per
28 square foot. The cost is more than just for the building, you have all the offsite
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1 improvements, you have all the access issues with the driveways, you have all the
2 architectural costs, all the constriction engineering, the construction management costs, but
3 Jim will have specifics more than that, I think.
4
5 Jim Engle
6 We had OPA, when they did the study on senior centers, put together a preliminary budget
7 based on their experiences and designing and building senior centers as well as exploring
8 other centers that were built. They used a $300.00 per square foot charge for the building and
9 the other charges as Mr. Emery said are correct; the only difference is the OPA study was
10 not site specific - that means they didn't include things like a traffic signal or the driveway
11 down or water quality issues or green elements_ It did include the parking lot, the
12 landscaping and other things outside of the building cost.
13
14 Council Woman Hardy
15 Did you say $300.00 per square foot?
16
17 Jim Engle
18 $300.00 per square foot and, in fact, we had a cost from Makar who had its consultants
19 working on the project a couple months ago or 45 days ago, give us a budget, a preliminary
20 budget of their own and it also used$300.00 per square foot with others numbers in but it
21 includes the design element as well as the other consultants too. So we have had two
22 different consultants give us a cost of about $300.00 per square foot just for the building plus
23 all the other costs totaled the $22 million
24
25 Mayor Cook
26 I'm sorry. Makar is not a consultant.
27
28 Jim Engle
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I No, but they have hired a set of consultants which they have hired to work on the project
2 under the OPA. In fact we asked that those consultants be LEED certified when they hired
3 them and they did. So hopefully to include as many LEED elements as possible. I know it's
4 going to be on your question.
5
6 Council Woman Hardy
7 Your answer actually leads to my other questions, first I just want to clarify. When the
8 original study was done it was not site specific but was it specific to a new building vs.
9 converting a closed school site.
10
11 Jim Engle
12 Correct, it was for a new building.
13
14 Council Woman Hardy
15 And given that this site does require some grading and some construction of the road and a
16 signal - is the $23 million price tag still within reason?
17
18 Jim Engle
19 Yes the cost estimate that we got from Makar's consultants indicated it can be built for the
20 money. OPA only puts a limit of$22 million on the project.
21
22 Council Woman Hardy
23 I'll use $22 million then. Does it include the cost of mitigating the Wild Life Mitigation
24 where 5 acres either needs to be found or rehabilitated in some way?
25
26 Jim Engle
27 No, it does not.
28
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I Council Woman Hardy
2 If this building cannot receive its occupancy until those 5 acres are mitigated then should we
3 be finding a funding source for those 5 acres now, if we hope to ever open the Senior
4 Center? I think having a building built, then not opened would be spectacular. I think it
5 would be a spectacular media, I'm sorry, not media, a community problem.
6
7 Jim Engle
8 If it is approved tonight, the EIR and CUP, the next step would be for the consultants to
9 work with consultants who prepared the EIR and come up with a plan for that mitigation.
10
11 Council Woman Hardy
12 Would we start building the building before we figured out how to mitigate and pay for
13 mitigation?
14
15 Jim Engle
16 I think we would have the plan and the cost and the funding source before we started, but it's
17 all a timing issue.
18
19 Council Woman Hardy
20 Next question somebody in public comments questioned the hydrology of the entire area. I
21 know the project itself, the water will be considered given that it will be higher than the
22 surrounding properties does the plan include making sure that the water won't run off into
23 the park.
24
25 Jennifer Villasenor
26 The plan, as I mentioned before, slopes Southwest, which ultimately ends up in Huntington
27 Lake. We have our consultant from PBS&J that can speak more to the hydrology but
28
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I ultimately it ends up in Huntington Lake, which then ends up in Slater Channel. I will turn it
2 over to TJ to speak more about hydraulics.
3
4 TJ Nathan
5 Per the EIR, storm water flow would still continue to be over land to the West toward
6 Huntington Lake and it would first go through the vegetative landscape area that you see
7 there that is going to act as the buffer to filter all of the oil, grease and discharges. The
8 mitigation measures are specific for the project. They require a water quality management
9 plan as well as project hydrology and hydraulic and drainage plan to be approved by the city
10 prior to development so that we ensure that everything is going to work accordingly.
11
12 Council Woman Hardy
13 And that includes the surrounding area? Like the immediate surrounding and not just the
14 property itself?
15
16 TJ Nathan
17 Yes
18
19 Council Woman Hardy
20 Next question, when we began to built the sports complex we discovered the need for much
21 greater soil remediation than what was planned for. How will we know before the project
22 starts what kind of soil remediation might need to be done, or is it possible we could
23 discover a big problem like we did across the street.
24
25 Mary Beth Broeren
26 We did, in response the Master EIR done in 1999 which looked at this area as a low intensity
27 recreational area. At that time, in 1999 there were a number of mitigation measures that were
28 identified specific to this particular property. One was to take a closer look at geotech,
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I archeo, etc. So at the beginning of this project, prior to putting the EIR out for public review,
2 we brought in a geotech consultant to actually do soil borings on the site, as well as had an
3 archeologist go on site and do some borings. Pursuant to those mitigation measures that were
4 adopted in '99, so based upon the geotech report, information we have which is very recent,
5 based upon the soil borings, we are not envisioning any unforeseen issues. However, as
6 with all EIRs, there is a mitigation measure in place requiring a detailed geotech report in
7 following those recommendations. At this point, none of the soil data we have would
8 indicate that there would be any problems. The landfill basically didn't traverse Golden
9 West. So the landfill issues that we encountered at the sports complex are not envisioned for
10 this property.
11
12 Council Woman Hardy
13 Are the standards higher for low intensity or high intensity?
14
15 Mary Beth Broeren
16 From a geotech stand point, obviously putting a building on the ground, your footings are
17 completely different than if you're putting a picnic structure, so it'll be much greater
18 requirement.
19
20 Council Woman Hardy
21 So we only did the study for low intensity- we have not done it for high intensity?
22
23 Mary Beth Broeren
24 No, the geotech study that was done in conjuncture with this EIR was anticipating the fact
25 that we would be building a Senior Center on this property. The mitigation measure that was
26 put in place in '99 was just a place holder for when we came forward with a specific project
27 for this property, although at this time, it was envisioning it would a lower intensity use.
28 However, when the Senior Center became the proposed project for this site, in response to
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I the '99 mitigation measure, we had the borings done and the geotech consultant was
2 surprised at the fact that it was a 45 thousand square foot Senior Center. They had the actual
3 conceptual building plans of what we wanted to do when they did the actual soil borings.
4
5 Council Woman Hardy
6 I want to make sure I understand this, for a second it sounded like this was envisioned in
7 1999. In 1999, we had a plan and I've seen the plan for the site which was low intensity. In
8 that study, part of the plan was to study the ground more. When we got closer to actually
9 implementing an actual plan, even though it was higher intensity than the 1999 plan, that's
10 when that study was done and because the plan for the site was now high intensity, was done
l I with that in mind.
12
13 Mary Beth Broeren
14 Essentially yes, the geotech boring that I referred to were done in early 2007 in response to
15 this EIR so. When we did the 1999 EIR we looked at the sports complex at a project level
16 similar to what we are doing with the senior center today and we looked at the other
17 components of the park plan at we call a program level, a much more cursory level. When
18 you're doing that program level you identify that these are the things we are going to look at
19 in the future when we actually know what we want to put on the property. When the senior
20 center became a project a year and half ago with the EIR, that's when we did the detailed site
21 studies for this which included the soil borings with the understanding that it would be a 45
22 thousand square foot building.
23
24 Council Woman Hardy
25 Thank you, that's all I have for now.
26
27 Mayor Cook
28 Councilman Bohr.
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1
2 Councilman Bohr
3 Thank you, to address the LEED's question, I'm all for being as green as we can to set some
4 leadership for the community as we look at adopting principles here as we're bringing in
5 new personnel to do exactly that. My only hesitation, which I will address in the motion for
6 discussion, is when I see the dollar amount of$80,000.00 for independent certification
7 inspector, I would like us to take off our blinders and think maybe that is something we
8 could do ourselves and build to those standards and not worry about having LEED
9 certification, but meet all those standards, minimum standards or maybe gold, maybe
10 platinum, I'm not sure. I'd like to see when we get further down in the working drawiings
11 when we're further in the design, to be brought back and see what the options are and what
12 those costs are. My idea is to keep the flexibility in coming back at a later date for that
13 particular portion of it. Six of the seven of us were on Council a couple of years ago when
14 we did our goals and objectives, and all six of us had as one of the number one priorities to
15 do a senior center and at that time I didn't think it was going to happen in my eight years of
16 service and I was very happy to see we had the Council On Aging and staff work hard
17 towards coming up with a site going through the Measure C which is the Measure T Vote,
18 design and getting this far. I'm proud of that and I'm very supportive of the motion in front
19 of us. With that for the discussion I am going to move for the recommended action Motions
20 1, 2 and 3 with the exception on page D1.19 suggested condition of approval 42 the project
21 shall strive towards LEED standards and to come back to City Council on those green issues
22 at a later date.
23
24 Council Woman Green
25 Second_
26
27 Councilman Carchio
28 I'm sorry D, what?
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1
2 Councilman Bohr
3 D1.19 suggest the condition of approval #2, change shall to strive and make it LEED
4 standard instead of certification. We may get there but I just don't know that we need to pay
5 $80,000.00 put that plate that says LEED. We could develop stricter standards and do it
6 ourselves in-house with staff- we have that capability. Thank you.
7
8 Mayor Cook
9 Councilmember Hardy
10
11 Council Woman Hardy
12 I understand your point and the plaque is something we can purchase now or later. I don't
13 have trouble with that but I have trouble with the wording. It is to open to "yeah we can try
14 and do some good things but not necessarily". I am wondering if we can re-word it so that it
15 can say that we want it to be qualified for LEED certification rather than saying we want the
16 LEED certification? We're going to spend the money on getting that and saying we want the
17 project to qualify for that certification, then there's a little more teeth to it than its saying we
18 want to reach at least 26 points on this standards.
19
20 Councilman Bohr
21 Do you want it to be different than "have to".
22
23 Council Woman Hardy
24 The word qualify for certification.
25
26 Mayor Cook
27 Build to LEED certification.
28
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I Council Woman Hardy
2 Yeah, build to LEED certification.
3
4 Councilman Bohr
5 I'm ok with that
6
7 Council Woman Hardy
8 Thank you.
9
10 Mayor Cook
11 Councilmember Coerper
12
13 Council Member Coerper
14 No, that's what I was going to ask you that took care of that.
15
16 Mayor Cook
17 Councilmember Green
18
19 Council Member Green
20 When I've gone through a lot of this, we meet until we come to innovation and design
21 process and two credits go for accredited professional on the project team and I don't care
22 whether we ever do that or not. So there are a few of them, I like the idea of solar, if we can
23 do that, I like the idea of sky lights, I like the idea of the position of the building, I like the
24 idea of low flush toilets. I like all the ideas of using the most energy efficient. All the stuff
25 we talked about I'm not going to repeat everything we said at the ADHOC Green
26 Committee. I don't want to get us boxed into something where it may be LEED's and then
27 we find something that comes up that is better and we can get more points or we can do
28 much better. One thing Mrs. Thomas didn't talk about is actually Edison does have a lot of
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I programs, the Gas Co. does that, they will do for free, that they will come up with us. I know
2 all of our staff already uses them. CEC does, there are a lot of programs. We are hiring a
3 whole staff member to come in here to do that. I don't see why we don't use that expertise,
4 I'm just a little nervous why we can't go above what we're doing. I like the idea of green, 1
5 love the idea, I don't even have a problem with LEED's but if it has to be where we're using
6 one of their experts, already Mr. Engle you said Makar is using a lot of consultants with their
7 background.
8
9 Jim Engle
10 Yes we asked that the consultants have the LEED certification.
11
12 Council Member Green
13 Ok so were getting that, I just don't want to box us in too much that we can't go above and
14 beyond, I've seen some problems where they get into using certain things and then they find
15 out that they are not very good, they are not energy efficient. We have a very different
16 geographical area than say Boston does or Washington DC or New York City or
17 Philadelphia, so I just want to make sure take advantage of everything we can for our
18 geographical area and for what we need not for what Philadelphia or even Oakland needs. 1
19 don't know how to get that into a motion but if you precluded that, I'm not sure I really want
20 that.
21
22 Councilman Bohr
23 1 think so.
24
25 Mayor Cook
26 Councilmember Hardy
27
28 Council Woman Hardy
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I As I understand LEED certification whether we actually get certified or just strive for the
2 standards, it's a menu, there are 69 possible points we need to get 26 for the certification
3 level. It's like any menu just because they have liver and onions on the menu and you don't
4 like liver and onions doesn't mean you don't eat at that restaurant, correct? Doesn't mean
5 you have to order it and you can't order something else and just because you eat at that
6 restaurant doesn't mean you can't go for ice cream somewhere else on the way home right?
7
8 Council Member Green
9 I just went down silver I didn't go down gold.
10
I 1 Council Woman Hardy
12 No,just certification and I think that's the motion...
13
14 Council Member Green
15 But I'm just going down the silver menu.
16
17 Council Woman Hardy
18 But even lower than silver is just simple certification, which is the motion, so in looking at
19 that if it doesn't fit, we don't have to choose that one, then if there is something on the list
20 that is good for the project, good for the city and good for the environment, then there is
21 nothing on the list that precludes us from adding that on.
22
23 Mayor Cook
24 You know I don't think anyone here understands what LEED's is really all about. It's really
25 about an integrated approach to building design. It's not about slapping PV on roofs it's not
26 about putting in low flow toilets - it's as much about air quality and reuse of materials. It's
27 about getting the design team put together and they work through the whole thing
28 themselves. Part of the problem with the discussion right now is from the very beginning this
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I has been such a conceptual design, this is all so conceptual and we're trying to discuss
2 specifics when it's totally out of our realm. Maybe this would be a better discussion for a
3 future date, I don't know, it seems to me this discussion could really come at a later date
4 when maybe some of the financing schemes are a little bit more focused and we really
5 understand what's going on. Sorry, I just had to jump in there, you can continue if you want
6 to try and hash it out.
7
8 Council Woman Hardy
9 No I'm ok with the motion but I'm not going to support it anyway so I might as well go
10 through some of the notes I have. I don't think it's going to be a surprise to anybody up on
11 the Dais but I do feel like I need to say why I won't be supporting this project. There is no
12 doubt in my mind that we need a new senior center, that our senior population will be
13 growing and we'll have more needs and more obligation to serving our seniors as time goes
14 on and that would include me hopefully someday. I don't want my vote to in any way be
15 viewed as not supporting seniors. I want a new senior center. I was part of the City Council
16 that supported a new senior center as a goal for our strategic plan. I just don't feel that this is
17 the right site and I'm worried about several things. One, were talking about the cost of LEED
18 certification and it just boggles my mind that we would get really a wind fall to our park
19 fund and in the same night we can have people coming up talking about a skate park that we
20 are closing and not replacing and the same season we have been talking about closed school
21 sites. Somebody else mentioned Irby and Bartlett Parks, which have been undeveloped parks
22 really since the lands had been designated as parks. That we would take this wind fall and
23 spend it on paving park land is just amazing to me - and then on top of that, to talk about
24 how it's a few hundred thousand dollars extra to make it environmentally friendly. Really
25 you're going to spend millions of dollars on paving park land, then nickel and dime to make
26 it somewhat environmentally friendly- that just really boggles my mind. On top of that there
27 are costs that we don't know yet. There will be 5 acres that will have to mitigate for wild
28 life, have to be its part of it. If you guys vote for this you have to do it, where are you going
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I to get the money, how are you going to find it? And then the way its structured the building
2 can be built but can't be used until we mitigate this and it wouldn't surprise me if that
3 happened we've seen it before in even private things. I remember the Wal-Mart and how that
4 hit the paper and how we wouldn't allow Wal-Mart to open because they had not finished
5 their requirements in order to receive occupancy and were going to that with the senior
6 center? I highly doubt it. I don't think that 5 acres will get mitigated. I think the senior
7 center will get built, I think you'll pave 5 acres and then I think you won't even do the
8 mitigation, that's my prediction. The loss of open space is not mitigated and were using our
9 park fund, so I don't know where we're going to get the money to mitigate any of this stuff.
10 It was mentioned several times by many people what happened with Kettler. When this
l 1 project was proposed a couple years ago Kettler wasn't available and now it's on the list of
12 closed school sites that the school districts are interested in selling, so is there are other
13 places to build this. Yes, there are many creative ways of already paved land that we could
14 use - we do not have to pave park land there for this project. There were several comments
15 that really bothered me, there were a couple of people who almost said "don't spend our
16 money on the LEED certification". I heard one person catch themselves and say "the
17 designated money' or the "ear marked money". This is a community project and if we
18 decide to pave land and make it as least impactful to the environment, and that's part of
19 where the budget comes from, we'll get it back through saving money by protecting the
20 environment. A lot of people talked about we used to play in this and take our kids to this
21 park - we've used this park and we want to come back and be in the park again - but you
22 want to pave it so nobody else can use it again. You've used and had your good time, now
23 you'll go ahead and put a building on it for you. Couple people talked about wanting to drive
24 less - to have a central location, I do understand the central location argument, however, this
25 senior center will be not walking distance to anybody, and everyone will have to take some
26 sort of transportation. Whether it is mass transit on a bus or their own personal car or a van.
27 Everyone will have to drive to this site in some way. There are other options where they're
28 friendly to at least some neighborhoods - where at least some people would be able to walk. I
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I got a weird feeling as people were listening to the students who were speaking like"this
2 teacher talked about it and sent them to talk about it" - so they were discounting them. I
3 don't want to discount anybody. I know there were flyers passed out at the senior center- so
4 should I discount all of those comments of people who were supportive because they saw a
5 flyer at the senior center? I want to applaud whatever teacher was stirring this discussion
6 and given that tomorrow is an election day, I really hope that every single one of those
7 students is inspired to go vote tomorrow and participate because I truly believe that if more
8 people had been inspired and voted in Nov. of 2006 that that 51/49% would have been
9 different. I really applaud all of those students, all of the speakers on all sides who got up
10 and made their comments and some of them I wasn't even sure if they were for or against or
1 I if they still had questions, anyway I won't be supporting this. I want to see a new senior
12 center but I just can't pave parkland to do it. We can come up with something better that
13 would be better for the entire community present and future. Thank you.
14
15 Mayor Cook
16 Councilmember Coerper
17
18 Council Member Coerper
19 Yes thank you very much. Well I will be supporting the motion and the reason why I will be
20 supporting this motion is listening to the citizens, there are some for it and some against it. I
21 realize this, but you know something, staff did one hell of a great job putting this together,
22 and if you say, well, what is so great about them, why should we believe them, why should
23 we believe you, why should we believe Councilwomen Hardy and what she just said. What
24 about if we do put that in a different location the folks that live close to that park - are they
25 going to want a big senior center close to their house, I don't think so, I wouldn't want it. I
26 think this is the best place. Let's use some other graphics on here, what about the therapeutic
27 riding stable. Did we have the same amount of people come up there and complain about the
28 usage of a park for that, or what about the Frisbee golf- I don't see those folks coming up
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I here and complaining saying we don't want it, well they did come up saying "we don't want
2 it there because the seniors will be taking over our Frisbee golf' I don't think so. However I
3 think it's very important that we look for the future, not today but for the future. I've heard
4 so many things about this is a specific area, 5 acres for our seniors that we should support
5 them and I hope the other Council people will support that. We know that Councilwomen
6 Hardy does not, that's ok for her not to support or anyone else. If this fails, at least I know
7 I'm not going to give in and I'm going to try and do the best for our seniors whether they
8 live within one block or fifty blocks away. My main thing is have a great facility for our
9 seniors, I don't want a mediocre one - I want the best. I hope that I can start shoveling dirt
10 with Dave Sullivan tomorrow. Thank you.
11
12 Mayor Cook
13 Councilman Carchio
14
15 Council Member Carchio
16 The point I wanted to make is: I don't think that anybody in this room or anybody sitting up
17 here has any objections to building green, everybody wants to build green -it's the way to go.
18 I even want to give free passes to people who drive hybrid cars. I think where problem lies
19 here is in the word mandatory and this is where I have a problem with it. If we decide that
20 we are going to build and we are going to use the LEED certification program that we should
21 put some sort of cap on it. I don't think that we should mandate $300,000.00 or $100,000.00.
22 We should decide and we should put a cap on how much money we want to earmark for that
23 LEED certification. On the other hand, I think do we owe the seniors a center? No, we
24 don't. Should we build them a senior center, yeah I think we should. It makes us better as a
25 community and it makes us look better and more compassionate. We can stand up here and
26 argue every point and bring up every point you want to bring up but the thing is still going to
27 come down to the bottom line, how does it make us look as a city, does it make us look any
28 more compassionate to our seniors and whether we're willing to give back to our seniors -
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I the people that have given so much to the city of Huntington Beach and our community. So I
2 will be supporting the program.
3
4 Mayor Cook
5 Councilmen Hansen
6
7 Councilmen Hansen
8 Just to clarify the motion and the progress from this point should it be successful on the
9 LEED certification which I think we have way too much consternation about this evening
10 from all sides. If you look at the palate we get to choose from I think we're going to get to
11 the minimum bench mark of certification without really trying just because of the methods
12 we have in place within the community already. It is a brand name to purchase which is
13 because there is no standard, everyone is trying to declare themselves greener than the next
14 guy or gal next to them in today's market place. What the LEED's program is trying to do is
15 agree upon a standard and let's attract a community of professionals to say we believe this
16 and this is the standards so we can start advancing it. We don't need to buy it but I just want
17 to make sure that in the event that we can qualify or do qualify, I would assume as the
18 budgeting and the design gets tighter as we go forward, will the Council give that direction
19 at that point?
20
21 Paul Emery
22 The owner participation agreement calls for this project to come back before the City
23 Council for final approval and for the design build award.
24
25 Councilman Hansen
26 Ok, great so we're not going to be sacrificing, we'll have the opportunity to say I want two
27 extra treadmills and a high-tech Bingo machine vs. LEED certification, or however those
28 tough decisions we get to make. There probably won't be any surprises on this vote this
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I evening, really in the discussion some specific questions came out. We've already had this
2 debate, we've had this debate of what the senior center is all about, the location it is going to
3 go. I think everybody had the opportunity to be equally offended tonight. I was offended by
4 opponents of the project saying the Council, the Community Services Commission, the
5 Planning Commission and every other person that scrutinized this project gave no real effort
6 to understand it, that's ridiculous. We spent an inordinate amount of time, took hours of
7 testimony, we get it, we get our job, we get what we're doing. To make comments like that
8 on the efforts put out not only by volunteers, but by appointed members and elected
9 members of this body shows really no respect for the effort and expertise that they bring to
10 the table. This project was put through the ringer of the vote and if the vote went the other
1 I way would the opponents be as vocal in saying let's say the disclosures weren't enough, it
12 was enough to get it shot down. So where you sit on this project really just depends on your
13 perceived outcome of the process. We've all committed to a senior center and were taking
14 the right steps. I still today have heard all the potential alternatives, but I still have not heard
15 an effective critical dissection of the work we did going into it which selected this as the best
16 location, that hasn't come up, it's just, I don't like it there. We can't make decisions I think
17 based on that. We were very effective, we heard some solid empirical data to come up with
18 the site selection. This is a great site, it will not impact much like all of these controversial
19 issues that we do in Huntington Beach. We go through all this hand ringing. We go through
20 bad blood in between us and then it comes down to, hey it's not so bad I'm shopping at Wal-
21 Mart now. This is no different. We have a solid opportunity to move forward with a much
22 needed project. Our seniors will benefit from this and the community as a whole will benefit
23 from this and we'll work to win over those folks that do it but we're on the right track. As I
24 have from the beginning I am supporting it tonight, we're on the right road and I do want to
25 see us strive for, not just strive but make the decision to embrace environmental certification
26 because we can't sign.on to be a cool Mayor or we can't say were going to support green
27 efforts. We are going to have to pick a standard and this will be a choice. I think when the
28 project does come forward on how much investment are we willing to do, but we do have to
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I lead by example, and not tell the development committee green, green, green except us.
2 That's not going to play because it will undermine our effectiveness at delivering what we
3 probably should, so I'll support the project as I have and hopefully we can move on from
4 here as a group.
5
6 Mayor Cook
7 Councilmember Green
8
9 Council Member Green
10 Yes, this project is about 5 acres out of about 356 acres. The site itself was an area that
11 depression is there because that dirt was to be used for the 405 fwy. I'm sure it's sacred to a
12 lot of people but was not the best area in the whole world and that's one reason it was
13 chosen. Council on Aging did a lot of work. There was a whole process, at the end of that
14 process they brought in liaisons to answer a lot of questions and go over all the data before it
15 was even brought to the Council. This was a very, very long process. The questioners got all
16 the answers, what do want, why do you need it. I tried to get the senior center remodeled.
17 The Apartment Association Foundation put in $110,000.00 to remodel that place and they
18 said it was almost a waste; they said you cannot rebuild 1940 buildings that were never that
19 great to start with, you must get an new senior center. They did a wonderful job for what
20 they had, and I thank them, I'm grateful to them. No, that place will never be sold off for any
21 development. It will always be used as a park or community center. As far as the green
22 standards, look, I want the green standards. I'm not arguing about that but even when I go to
23 the pharmacy I'm asked whether I want a brand or a generic. Sometimes in these financial
24 hard times you can make a choice, but we have an energy czar coming in and I have all the
25 confidence in the world that, not only our staff I think has done a very good job, but that czar
26 can also do a really good job. The consultants that will be coming working on this project all
27 have LEED certification so I'm not bypass trying to b ass that, I want that. I think I want probably
28 more, but I want it as a whole concerted effort and I want it for our geographical area, not for
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I any other area. With that I will absolutely support the senior center and certifying the
2 environmental impact as adequate and complete and the CUP findings and conditions and
3 the findings fact with overriding conditions.
4
5 Mayor Cook
6 Thank you, well, first of all I appreciate all the passionate comments on both sides of this
7 issue. I think in this room tonight are probably the most dedicated volunteers this city has
8 and they were on both sides of this issue. I think it is a wonderful thing that we can have
9 these kinds of discussions and we can still go home and call each other up a few days later. I
10 was very surprised that so much attention was focused on the LEED certification issue, I
11 think it's a little short sided. When you go out to buy a new refrigerator and pick the one that
12 is $50.00 cheaper but it costs you $50.00 more per month to operate it, I think that's a
13 mistake and hopefully when the time comes we will build something that's truly something
14 that we can be proud of and that will reduce the operations and maintenance of this facility
15 because a year or so ago we were told by staff that they were estimating it would cost about
16 a million or so dollars to annually operate and maintain this building. I'm very concerned
17 about where this money is going to come from, especially because we are now entering into
18 a recession, if we're not already in a recession, and I believe within two years we will
19 actually be back to laying off employees. We've already seen a softening of our sale tax
20 revenue, if you walk around your neighborhood you will see more and more houses up for
21 sale for the first time in quite a while. You can find homes in Huntington Beach that are less
22 than $500,000.00 and so that means those people who have paid more for those homes will
23 be applying for reassessments so our sales tax will go down as a result. I think we are going
24 to hit some really rocky times and I suggested this several years ago because I felt that this
25 was the direction our economy was going to go into because we were not living sustainably
26 or within our means. I have some concerns that this project does not mitigate for the impacts
27 of the Pacific City project and that concerns me very much. I'm concerned with using CFD
28 funds to pay for a project that's 2 to 3 miles away from the people who are supposedly
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I creating the impacts. I have some concerns with the developer actually building the project
2 when we really don't have a really good handle on what's it's going to cost. It's very
3 concerning when we've hired LPA to do some kind of a conceptual drawing here and they
4 came up with a very rough, if I remember the study sessions, very rough calculations of
5 $300.00 a square foot and just coincidentally Makar's consultants happen to come up the
6 same $300.00 a square foot. That concerns me because anything they spend less than that
7 they get to keep, I believe, so it would be wonderful if we had a better handle on what the
8 real cost would be, or better yet, the city actually handle the building of this project because
9 if we want it to be to a certain standard I think we have to have better control over the design
10 and the construction and the whole project. It's interesting that the schools in California are
11 building to very high standards, silver standard I think is the minimum they're allowed to
12 build to. UCI is the greenest campus of the UC system in California. It's really quite
13 incredible the things they have accomplished over there. There are acute needs in this city
14 for recreation and we know this from our community survey, the senior center was eighth
15 among those. There are lots of needs that this city has, and I'd like to spread things around -
16 I'd love to see Bartlett park finished and Irby park and the Skateboard park replaced and all
17 of those things but they all take money, we have a very limited budget and it concerns me
18 that we would spend so much money on just one facility and we would have to tell all the
19 others that they will probably never see their projects completed. That is basically it. I'm
20 sure I have been an equal opportunity offender too, so I apologize for that for offending folks
21 but that's how I look at things, so now Joan Flynn has her light on.
22
23 Joan Flynn
24 Before the vote I would really like to have clarification on the revision you are making to
25 number 2. I heard a few different comments and wasn't sure the second was agreeing with
26 some additional language that went in. We had the project shall "strive to achieve LEED
27 certification standards". Is that what you want to change that sentence to?
28
88 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
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I Councilman Bohr
2 Correct, and those come back to council.
3
4 Joan Flynn.
5 Ok thank you.
6
7 Mayor Cook
8 Ok everybody got it please vote.
9
10 Joan Flynn
11 The motion passes 5:2 Councilmember Hardy and Mayor Cook no.
12
13 Mayor Cook
14 Thank you, now we will move on to the consent calendar.
15
16
17 FINDINGS AND CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO.
18 07-039 FINDINGS FOR APPROVAL - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 07-039:
19
20 1. Conditional Use Permit No. 07-039 to permit the construction and operation of a 45,000
21 square foot senior recreation facility will not be detrimental to the general welfare of persons
22 working or residing in the vicinity or detrimental to the value of the property and
23 improvements in the neighborhood. An EIR that analyzed the project's potential to generate
24 detrimental impacts on people and surrounding properties was prepared and concluded that,
25 with mitigation, there are no significant project specific impacts. In addition, being that the
26 project is located in Central Park, the closest adjacent residences are located approximately
27 800 feet west of the project site. One significant cumulative impact to aesthetics was
28 identified in the EIR and as such, a Statement of Overriding Considerations, which discusses
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I the benefits of the project in relation to the cumulative impact, is required for approval of the
2 project.
3
4 2. Conditional Use Permit No. 07-039 will be compatible with surrounding uses because it is
5 consistent with the applicable General Plan Land Use and Zoning designations as noted in
6 previous sections of this report. Although the proposed project will result in the
7 development of a new senior center on existing open space, the project will be compatible
8 with the established recreational land use pattern in the area, specifically existing community
9 facilities such as the Central Library and Sports Complex adjacent to the proposed project
10 site. Within this context, the proposed project is compatible with the surrounding parkland.
i 1 In addition, the proposed project would add a senior recreation facility on land currently
12 designated for recreational uses but at a greater intensity than what was previously intended
13 for the site.
14
15 The proposed building features a design with architectural features that minimize the visual
16 bulk and mass of the buildings and provides for compatibility with the surrounding parkland.
17 The project complies with all of the requirements for development in the OS-PR zoning
18 district and provides an adequate number of parking spaces. To integrate the project with the
19 natural setting of the Shipley Nature Center and existing passive parkland west of the project
20 site, substantial landscaping is proposed throughout the site, including surrounding the entire
21 perimeter of the project site.
22
23 3. Conditional Use Permit No. 07-039 will comply with the provisions of the base district
24 and other applicable provisions in Titles 20-25 of the Huntington Beach Zoning and
25 Subdivision Ordinance, including the Open Space— Parks & Recreation zone permitted uses
26 and minimum setbacks. Parking requirements are determined by the conditional use permit
27 and are specific to the requested use. A sufficient number of parking spaces is provided for
28 the project based on surveys of similar projects.
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1
2 4. The granting of Conditional Use Permit No. 07-039 will not adversely affect the General
3 Plan. It is consistent with the Land Use Element designation of OS-P (Open Space - Parks)
4 on the subject property. In addition, it is consistent with the following goals and policies of
5 the General Plan:
6
7 Air Quality Element
8
9 Policy AQ 1.8.3: Encourage developers to maintain the natural topography, to the maximum
10 extent possible, and limit the amount of land clearing, blasting, grading, and ground
11 excavation operations needed for development.
12
13 The proposed project anticipates a balanced site with minor cut and fill operations during
14 construction.
15
16 Policy AQ 1.10.1: Continue to require the utilization and installation of energy conservation
17 features in all new construction.
18
19 As with all new buildings, the proposed project will be required to comply with the energy
20 conservation standards of Title 24, which would ensure that there would be no wasteful or
21 unnecessary use of energy.
22
23 Circulation Element
24
25 Policy CE 6.1.7: Require new development to provide accessible facilities to the elderly and
26 disabled.
27
28
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I The proposed senior center project will be required to comply with the requirements of the
2 ADA. The proposed project will also provide ADA access to the site via a pedestrian path
3 north of the access driveway.
4
5 Policy CE 7.1.7: Continue to construct landscaped medians in existing major and primary
6 arterial streets and continue to require the construction of landscaped medians in new
7 developments.
8
9 The proposed project includes construction of a signalized access driveway at the
10 intersection of Goldenwest Street and Talbert Avenue. The new access driveway includes a
1 I proposed landscaped median.
12
13 Environmental Hazards Element
14
15 Policy EH 4.1.1: During major redevelopment or initial construction, require specific
16 measures to be taken by developers, builders, or property owners in flood prone areas, to
17 prevent or reduce damage from flood hazards and the risks upon human safety.
18
19 Although the site is partially located in Flood Zone A, the project site is already a minimum
20 of 4 feet higher than the base flood elevation at its lowest point. A flood elevation certificate
21 will be required for the proposed project.
22
23 Growth Management Element
24
25 Goal GM 2: Ensure that adequate transportation and public facilities and public services are
26 provided for existing and future residents of the City.
27
28
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I The proposed project does not result in any significant traffic impacts and adequate public
2 facilities and public services will be provided.
3
4 Hazardous Materials Element
5
6 Policy HM 1.2.3: Support land use or developments adjacent to or within close proximity of
7 sensitive uses, which do not utilize, store, handle, or contain hazardous materials and/or
8 waste, and which would create an unsafe, unhealthy, or hazardous condition for adjacent
9 uses.
10
11 Construction and operation of the proposed senior center will not include the use of large
12 quantities of hazardous materials, and any commonly used hazardous materials would be
13 used and stored in accordance with applicable regulations. Implementation of the proposed
14 project would not utilize hazardous materials or waste and would not create an unsafe or
15 hazardous condition for adjacent uses.
16
17 Land Use Element
18
19 Policy LU 4.2.1: Require that all structures be constructed in accordance with the
20 requirements of the City's building and other pertinent codes and regulations; including new,
21 adaptively re-used, and renovated buildings.
22
23 Policy LU 4.2.4: Require that all development be designed to provide adequate space for
24 access, parking, supporting functions, open space and other pertinent elements.
25
26 Policy LU 4.2.5: Require that all commercial, industrial and public development incorporate
27 appropriate design elements to facilitate access and use as required by State and Federal
28 Laws such as the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).
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i
2 The proposed project will be constructed in accordance with existing laws and regulations,
3 including the City's building code and any applicable State and federal law requirements
4 such as ADA. In addition, the project is proposed to be in conformance with the Huntington
5 Beach Zoning and Subdivision Ordinance and is not seeking any variances to deviate from
6 the code requirements. Adequate access to and from the project site will be provided
7 through the entrance at the Goldenwest Street/Talbert Avenue intersection. Sufficient
8 parking will be provided on site for the senior center use.
9
10 Recreation and Community Services Element
11
12 Policy RCS 1.1.1: Provide leisure opportunities through programs and activities that serve
13 the general population as well as the specialized needs of the disabled, children and elderly.
14
15 Policy RCS 3.1.2: Provide a variety of amenities within recreation areas in order to
16 accommodate persons with different interests.
17
18 Policy RCS 3.1.7: Design recreational facilities to the accessibility requirements as specified
19 in State and Federal laws such as the Americana with Disabilities Act (ADA) standards for
20 accessibility.
21
22 The proposed project is a senior recreation facility proposed to be developed in accordance
23 with ADA standards. The senior center and associated amenities will provide the City with
24 expanded recreational resources for senior citizens to meet existing and future demand. The
25 senior center will be accessible to all residents of the City of Huntington Beach.
26
27 Utilities Element
28
94 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I Policy U 3.3.2: Where feasible, utilize natural overland flows, open channels, and swale
2 routings as preferred alignments for components of drainage systems.
3
4 Policy U 3.3.3: Require that new developments employ the most efficient drainage
5 technology to control drainage and minimize damage to environmental sensitive areas.
6
7 The proposed project includes bioswales and vegetated buffer areas to treat runoff from the
8 proposed project's impervious areas. Implementation of BMPs and the project's directing of
9 stormwater flows through the park and Huntington Lake will ensure that project
10 implementation would not adversely impact sensitive environments
11
12 CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 07-039:
13
14 1. The project plans received and dated October 17, 2007 shall be the conceptually approved
15 design with the following modifications.
16
17 a. The gate located at the terminus of the access driveway shall be relocated to the south
18 edge of the reconfigured "T" intersection.
19 b. The number of ADA parking spaces shall be increased to 20. Once the facility is
20 operational, the number of ADA spaces may be revised as determined necessary by the
21 Community Services Department.
22
23 2. The project shall strive to achieve LEED certification standards and will be reviewed by
24 the City Council as a non-public hearing item for input on what green building
25 elements/sustainable features will be included in the final project design. A variety of
26 sustainable features shall be used and may include (but are not limited to) those
27 recommended by the U.S. Green Building Council's Leadership in Energy and
28 Environmental Design (LEED) Program certification
95 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
150952.2
I (http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CategoryID=19) or Build It Green's Green
2 Building Guidelines and Rating Systems
3 (http://www.bullditgreen.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=guidelines).
4
5 3. Prior to submittal for plan check, project design, including landscape plans (completed
6 pursuant to conditions 5 and 6), shall be reviewed by the City of Huntington Beach Design
7 Review Board and approved by the Planning Commission as a non-public hearing item.
8
9 4. At least 14 days prior to any grading activity, the applicant/developer shall provide notice
10 in writing to property owners of record and tenants of properties within a 500-foot radius of
11 the project site as noticed for the public hearing. The notice shall include a general
12 description of planned grading activities and an estimated timeline for commencement and
13 completion of work and a contact person name with phone number. Prior to issuance of the
14 grading permit, a copy of the notice and list of recipients shall be submitted to the Planning
15 Department.
16
17 5. The final landscape plans shall incorporate a variety of tree, shrub and grass species that
18 are currently planted at adjacent uses, including the Sports Complex, Shipley Nature Center
19 and the passive park west of the project site.
20
21 6. In the event that an overflow parking area is provided in place of the meadow area
22 depicted on the preliminary landscape plan, meadow grasses shall be planted elsewhere on
23 the project site. The species of meadow grasses should take into consideration the species
24 currently planted at Shipley Nature Center.
25
26 7. A public art element, approved by the Design Review Board, Director of Planning, and
27 Director of Huntington Beach Art Center, shall be depicted on the plans. Public Art shall be
28
96 Transcript—City Council Meeting 02/04/2008
1509522
I innovative, original, and of artistic excellence; appropriate to the design of the project; and
2 reflective of the community's cultural identity (ecology, history, or society).
3
4 8. The project shall comply with all mitigation measures adopted in conjunction with
5 Environmental Impact Report No. 07-002.
6
7 INDEMNIFICATION AND HOLD HARMLESS CONDITION:
8
9 The owner of the property which is the subject of this project and the project applicant if
10 different from the property owner, and each of their heirs, successors and assigns, shall
I I defend, indemnify and hold harmless the City of Huntington Beach and its agents, officers,
12 and employees from any claim, action or proceedings, liability cost, including attorney's fees
13 and costs against the City or its agents, officers or employees, to attack, set aside, void or
14 annul any approval of the City, including but not limited to any approval granted by the City
15 Council, Planning Commission, or Design Review Board concerning this project. The City
16 shall promptly notify the applicant of any claim, action or proceeding and should cooperate
17 fully in the defense thereof.
18
19 - - - - END - - -
20
21 Transcribed from DVD and typed as spoken.
22
23 *Please note the transcripts contain all words as spoken— not dictated. Only "ah" and "um"
24 were not typed on this transcript.
25 " °aa lora►0no inawment Is a confect
-�0 odginai on file in this office.
26 EIR— Environmental Impact Reportt �t 20
27 CUP— Conditional Use Permit '" T�; ,,,6' x-officio Clerk of the City
i? .qi ti;Q QVi of HuMngton Beach,
28 MM - Mitigation Measure
Vwpury
97 Transcript—City ouncil Meeting 02/04/2008
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Page 1 of 1
Esparza, Patty
From: Surf City Pipeline [noreply@user.govoutreach.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:45 PM
To: CITY COUNCIL; agendaalerts@surfcity-hb.org
Subject: Surf City Pipeline: Comment on an Agenda Item (notification)
Request# 1191 from the Government Outreach System has been assigned to Johanna
Stephenson.
Request type: Comment
Request area: City Council - Comment on Agenda Items
Citizen name: Richard Sax
Description: From: Richard Sax [mailto:rsaxhbca@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:39 PM
To: CITY COUNCIL
Cc: rsaxhbca@aol.com
Subject: Senior Center EIR
To Mayor Cook and City Council Members:
As a 30 year resident of the City, I would like to lend my support to the
proposed new Senior Center which is to be discussed at the upcoming City
Council Meeting. I recognize that there is some resistance in the community to
both the EIR and CUP based largely on the proposed project site located in
Central Park. In retrospect, other sites could have been designated for
development but the electorate has already approved Central Park. Therefore, I
recommend that the City Council endorse the Central Park site with the
stipulation that maximal LEED criteria be utilized to make the project
environmentally friendly. Our aging Huntington Beach community deserves a
first rate senior center and the plans as presented will do just that. Thank you for
your time and consideration. Richard M Sax, M.D.
Expected Close Date: 06/18/2009
Click here to access the request
Note: This message is for notification purposes only. Please do not reply to this email. Email replies are
not monitored and will be ignored.
6/17/2009